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The 2011 Gallery

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

The 2011 Gallery

Postby MadThinker88 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:56 am

Every off-season various publications try to quantify and rank the prospects that teams have within their farm system. Being a Tribe fan at heart and intrigued by these opinions as this team seemed to have undergone constant rebuilding since 2002, I have spent more and more time searching the internet looking for those opinions. In all honesty, it’s the reason I stumbled across the early work of Tony & became a fan of his contributions.

Over the past few seasons, I have tried to compile these various opinions into a spreadsheet that would be a quick reference guide along with being a well-rounded ranking system for the Tribe prospects. However there are still challenges in that process.

One challenge is list size. Some sources go 30 players deep in rank, while others only go 10 players deep or some (like Tony) go 50 or 100 players deep in rank. While Jellis has done a fine job by limiting his look to top 10 rankings of a handful of sources, I am interested by what is just over that line and seeing the next wave. I’m really intrigued by the people between 11 and 25.

Another challenge in my project is source value. Some sources are noted contributors in the field of Tribe prospect rankings like John Sickels, Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus and Tony. Other sources are shall we say, limited in their understanding of the game and have a hard time distinguishing between a NBA or NFL player and a Tribe minor league prospect.

Another challenge in this project is the issue of criteria used, namely how that source determines its ranking– is it purely driven by analyzing the stats or from personal observations and scouting reports. Add to that the issue of lumping all items into the same equation and creating an underlying equality among the sources. While Tony’s work would certainly be worthy of that inclusion, suggesting my own personal created listing of the top 30 prospects is at that level would be the height of arrogance.

Each year I try to improve the work, applying lessons from the previous year’s project. This year the spreadsheet will again be divided into 3 sections:
• Overall Sheet (with major sources and final rankings of the other sheets),
• Other publications page, and
• a fans Gallery page.

Over the past few years a number of board contributors got involved including Art Gold, Petes999, Jellis, Dnosco, and Hermie13. We had 18 total submissions in the fans gallery last year and I really hope we can get 20 or more fan submissions this year. We all have opinions, so let's put them on the table for all to know.

If you are interested in joining the 2011 ‘Gallery’: you will need to email me thru this site or post on this thread your top 30 Tribe prospects before January 17, 2011.

When you send me your prospects, rank them from 1 (being highest) down to 30 (being lowest). There can only be one player per rank number. I also ask that you include first names with you list (there are more guys with the same last name then you think). I am hoping that by delaying the listing deadline until 1/17/11 we will not have to worry about listing players that are lost via minor league free agency, the Rule 5 draft or are traded away before/ at/ just after the winter meetings. Any players not ranked on a person’s gallery submission listing will be listed NR (not ranked) and given the value of 31 in the calculations.

After the Gallery submissions are processed, the results will be shared with the participants and I will share the final overall ranking list once the various other sources have been published. Any questions, ask away and thanks for joining the 2011 ‘Gallery’.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:25 pm

Do you have a historical archive of the spreadsheet available that you may be able to post via a link??..that may shed some light into both a players current assessment as well as a historical reference.. thanks.. G-Son...
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby artgold » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:44 pm

Thanks for undertaking this effort once again, I'd be glad to post my preliminary listing:

1 – Knapp, Jason
2 - Kipnis, Jason
3 - Chisenhall, Lonnie
4 - White, Alex
5 - Pomeranz, Drew
6 - Weglarz, Nick
7 – Gardner, Joe
8 - Chen, Chun
9 - Washington, LeVon
10 - DeLaCruz, Kelvin
11 - Phelps, Cord
12 - Bryson, Rob
13 - Barnes, Scott
14 - Hagadone, Nick
15 - Stowell, Bryce
16 - Wolters, Tony
17 - House, TJ
18 - Urshela, Giovanny
19 - Putnam, Zach
20 - Pestano, Vinnie
21 - Soto, Giovanni
22 - Lee, Chen
23 - Packer, Matt
24 - Judy, Josh
25 - McBride, Matt
26 - Burns, Cory
27 - Espino, Paolo
28 - Greenwell, Bo
29 - Kluber, Corey
30 - Sterling, Felix
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby criznit2009 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:56 pm

artgold wrote:Thanks for undertaking this effort once again, I'd be glad to post my preliminary listing:

1 – Knapp, Jason
2 - Kipnis, Jason
3 - Chisenhall, Lonnie
4 - White, Alex
5 - Pomeranz, Drew
6 - Weglarz, Nick
7 – Gardner, Joe
8 - Chen, Chun
9 - Washington, LeVon
10 - DeLaCruz, Kelvin
11 - Phelps, Cord
12 - Bryson, Rob
13 - Barnes, Scott
14 - Hagadone, Nick
15 - Stowell, Bryce
16 - Wolters, Tony
17 - House, TJ
18 - Urshela, Giovanny
19 - Putnam, Zach
20 - Pestano, Vinnie
21 - Soto, Giovanni
22 - Lee, Chen
23 - Packer, Matt
24 - Judy, Josh
25 - McBride, Matt
26 - Burns, Cory
27 - Espino, Paolo
28 - Greenwell, Bo
29 - Kluber, Corey
30 - Sterling, Felix


Good list - Lots and lots of depth after the top 12 or so... I am goinig to have a hard time figuring out the bottom half of my list this year for sure. With guys like Soto, Abreu, Kluber, Urshela, Adams, Blair, Sterling, Aguilar, Lavisky, Pestano and a few other relivers, Carrera, Greenwell, Henry and more.. It will be interesting to see how varied it gets at the bottom.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby MadThinker88 » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:03 am

criznit2009 wrote: Good list - Lots and lots of depth after the top 12 or so.../ /.. It will be interesting to see how varied it gets at the bottom.


And this is why I take on this project. Many times is possible to have a consensus top 3 or top 5 or maybe even top 7. Nearly impossible to have a consensus top 25 or top 30.

Art - Thank you for your prelim list. Feel free to get me updates till 1/17/11.

As for historical sheets, let me know where to email the excel file for your review. This year is the 5th year of the project.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby artgold » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:12 am

It was a bit difficult for me to do this season with the demise of the minorleaguesplits.com web site.

Prior to finding that site, I used to post player performance data monthly to a spread sheet. I quit doing this the past couple of years and just used the data on the splits site. Suddenly they took it down, and I didn't record data figuring they already had stuff more extensive than what I was compiling.

If you know of another site that has the historical minor league player split data, I'd appreciate the link. Otherwise, I have to go with more limited information.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby petes999 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:02 pm

Just so we are on the same page, I assume Gomez, Tomlin, Santana and Carrasco used up their rookie eligibility but Hermann, Pestano and Brown (can't remember hitter rule -- he had 87 AB and 92 PA) haven't.

Can someone verify.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:47 pm

Yes, as far as rookie eligibility goes, the following are no longer eligible for prospect ranking:

Carlos Santana
Carlos Carrasco
Michael Brantley
Tony Sipp
Lou Marson
Jason Donald
Jeanmar Gomez
Josh Tomlin
Hector Ambriz
Mitch Talbot
Josh Tomlin
Chris Gimenez

Frank Herrmann and others are eligible still.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby petes999 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:40 pm

criznit2009 wrote:
artgold wrote:Thanks for undertaking this effort once again, I'd be glad to post my preliminary listing:

1 – Knapp, Jason
2 - Kipnis, Jason
3 - Chisenhall, Lonnie
4 - White, Alex
5 - Pomeranz, Drew
6 - Weglarz, Nick
7 – Gardner, Joe
8 - Chen, Chun
9 - Washington, LeVon
10 - DeLaCruz, Kelvin
11 - Phelps, Cord
12 - Bryson, Rob
13 - Barnes, Scott
14 - Hagadone, Nick
15 - Stowell, Bryce
16 - Wolters, Tony
17 - House, TJ
18 - Urshela, Giovanny
19 - Putnam, Zach
20 - Pestano, Vinnie
21 - Soto, Giovanni
22 - Lee, Chen
23 - Packer, Matt
24 - Judy, Josh
25 - McBride, Matt
26 - Burns, Cory
27 - Espino, Paolo
28 - Greenwell, Bo
29 - Kluber, Corey
30 - Sterling, Felix


Good list - Lots and lots of depth after the top 12 or so... I am goinig to have a hard time figuring out the bottom half of my list this year for sure. With guys like Soto, Abreu, Kluber, Urshela, Adams, Blair, Sterling, Aguilar, Lavisky, Pestano and a few other relivers, Carrera, Greenwell, Henry and more.. It will be interesting to see how varied it gets at the bottom.


And a few names off the list are Rondon and Diaz (maybe towards the 30+ range). I put together a list of names to consider and there is around 50 or so that you can argue can be in the top 30 ... and some at the end of the list are names we are arguing about Rule 5 - McBride, Goedert, Rodriquez and Graham .... A much deeper list this year than in year's past IMO.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby artgold » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:34 am

petes999 wrote:And a few names off the list are Rondon and Diaz (maybe towards the 30+ range). I put together a list of names to consider and there is around 50 or so that you can argue can be in the top 30 ... and some at the end of the list are names we are arguing about Rule 5 - McBride, Goedert, Rodriquez and Graham .... A much deeper list this year than in year's past IMO.


I left off Hector Rondon and Alex Perez off my list due to their Tommy John operations this year, I want to see some recovery before placing them back in consideration.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby csowlfan26 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:57 am

Excellent information. I wish there were stats that could quantify intangible qualities such as a pitcher with a "bulldog" mentality. The kind of player that a manager has no trouble going to when in the toughest of situations. I know there are minor league fans out there that follow and attend their minor league affiliate games regularly, maybe they could add some insight into some of these types of players. I follow the Kinston Indians closely and two such players that come to mind are Matt Langwell and Cory Burns. I saw this tandem tossed into the fire many times through the course of the season and most of the time they came out on top. They both posted excellent figures based on organizational pitching statistics and I would include both on my top 30 list. I know that there are some sleeper candidates out there, every organization has them, a top 5-10 sleeper list might be interesting also.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:57 am

Hi owl fan. I'm a big fan of Langwell and Burns. Will be interesting to see how both fare in Akron in 2011. The one thing that hurts them though is they are relievers, which drops their prospect "ranking" considerable when matched up against other positions. They are certainly two of the better relief prospects in the organization, but relievers generally don't rank well when compared to more valued positions like starting pitcher, shortstop, catcher, center field, etc. It's probably the lowest rated position if you ranked importance of each position, and why so many good relief prospects don't make a Top 30 or even 50. To me, they are always the toughest to rank because of their lower value and there being so many of them!
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby csowlfan26 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:35 pm

I understand completely. I think that organization's (sometimes out of necessity) tend to make the decision between starters and relievers way too early in a player's career and then they (the players) are "labeled that way. IMO, Langwell still has "value" as a potential starter someday, maybe not with the Indians as they are deep with pitching, but I am afraid someone will pick him up in that role. Yes, next year will be interesting!
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby MadThinker88 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:25 pm

artgold wrote:It was a bit difficult for me to do this season with the demise of the minorleaguesplits.com web site.


Did you email Jeff? The post he left behind seems to indicate he was still collecting the data, just not posting it.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:15 pm

Okay.. so here's another list.. eeeggghhhaaddd.. it's much more difficult when you get down to # 23 and onward..
How can you leave Jordan Brown off the list?.. why isn't Beau Mills given any love?..etc.. anyway.. instead of
continuing on and on with rearranging and replacing.. here it is..

1. Lonnie Chissenhall
2. Jason Kipnis
3. Levon Washington
4. Alex White
5. Drew Pomeranz
6. Kelvin de la Cruz
7. Jason Knapp
8. Nick Weglarz
9. Cord Phelps
10. Scott Barnes
11. Nick Hagadone
12. Chun Chen
13. Joe Gardner
14. TJ House
15. Corey Kluber
16. Tony Wolters
17. Bryan Price
18. Bryce Stowell
19. Rob Bryson
20. Hector Rondon
21. Josh Judy
22. Felix Sterling
23. Yohan Pino
24. Adam Miller
25. Alex Laviskey
26. Zach McAllister
27. Giovanny Urshela
28. Kyle Bellows
29. Vinnie Pestano
30. Bo Greenwell
Last edited by GeronimoSon on Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby petes999 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:43 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Okay.. so here's another list.. eeeggghhhaaddd.. it's much more difficult when you get down to # 23 and onward..
How can you leave Jordan Brown off the list?.. why isn't Beau Mills given any love?..etc.. anyway.. instead of
continuing on and on with rearranging and replacing.. here it is..

1. Lonnie Chissenhall
2. Jason Kipnis
3. Levon Washington
4. Alex White
5. Drew Pomeranz
6. Kelvin de la Cruz
7. Jason Knapp
8. Nick Weglarz
9. Adam Miller
10. Scott Barnes
11. Nick Hagadone
12. Cord Phelps
13. Joe Gardner
14. TJ House
15. Corey Kluber
16. Tony Wolters
17. Bryan Price
18. Bryce Stowell
19. Rob Bryson
20. Hector Rondon
21. Chun Chen
22. Felix Sterling
23. Yohan Pino
24. Josh Judy
25. Chen Lee
26. Zach McAllister
27. Carlos Rivero
28. Kyle Bellows
29. Vinnie Pestano
30. Bo Greenwell


Remember Rivero is no longer with the team ... Also, I am curious what you see in Washington to rank him 3rd, ahead of Pom ... Hopefully, he lives up to his potential - like Kipnis did last year, just can't get a good handle on him yet.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:03 pm

As Rachel Phelps (maggie whitten) is so proud to say... "..well cross him off the list then...spring training starts in 96 days.. here's a list of players...." I actually meant to put Josh Rodriguez in that spot.. ooops..

What I see with LeVon is a cross between Austin Jackson and Justin Upton.. Over the next two seasons, imho.. he's going to come on like gangbusters..
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby artgold » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:50 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:
artgold wrote:It was a bit difficult for me to do this season with the demise of the minorleaguesplits.com web site.


Did you email Jeff? The post he left behind seems to indicate he was still collecting the data, just not posting it.


No, I figured with him taking down the site he wouldn't be making all of the information I need available. I didn't want to bother him with this, if he doesn't want to post it I'll just do without.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby indianinkslinger » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:30 am

I am really nowhere close to a list but i have ranked most of the prospects into categories such as SP,RP & position players before melding the list. I like the two lists submitted thus far. Both are well thought out even if I do not necessarily agree with the rankings. For example, in the top 10 area, I would place Weglarz ahead of Washington and Hagadone over Barnes. I like all four well enough to consider them top 10ish and I understand if Art and GS downgraded them because of questionable health/recovery issues but i don't. I look forward to their thinking on a couple of SP/RPs that I rank quite differently. I do not have Pino in my top 20 SPs much less on the full prospect list. Espino has moved to the pen IMO and does not make my current top 10 RPs. He seems more like a pitcher who fills in where necessary to me and not a legitimate ML SP prospect. Just my thoughts. It is always tough to be the 1st out with the list and I am not anywhere cloose to putting together a comprehensive list like Art and GS. :pleasantry:
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby artgold » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:36 pm

Last year I had Hagadone at #3, now (so far, subject to change) I have him at #14.

I was expecting a lot better performance this past season. His walk rate at Kinston the first half of the season was of minor concern, however I liked his hits allowed and strikeout rates. I figured he was still in the recovery process from his earlier TJ surgery, and was showing decent progress.

However, I significantly disliked his 2nd half performance at Akron. His walk rate stayed very high, but his hits allowed and strikeout rates were nothing special for a guy with his great arm. Of greatest concern to me was the lack of progress in each subsequent appearance at Akron. If he had a tired arm that would have been a reasonable explanation for the end of season tail off, but he only pitched a little over 80 innings all season.

So, now I'm starting to have some doubt about his long term value. I thought he had the potential to be a front of rotation starting pitcher, but now I'm starting to think he may end up in the bullpen. If he were younger I'd just view this as a bump in the development of a pitcher with great stuff, but he turns 25 in a couple of months and didn't show much success in high A, and no success at all in AA.

Combining his age, poor performance, lack of in-season progress and not showing an improvement in ability to pitch more innings per start, I have some concerns about his long term potential. I hope he doesn't end up having a Rudy Seanez type of career, but I'm not that confident he'll amount to much more than a Seanez.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:46 pm

... year I had Hagadone at #3, now (so far, subject to change) I have him at ....
For the short time he was at AA Akron.. it appeared that his command/control had remained/become much more of an issue.. but..with any "tall and fall" pitcher (as opposed to a drop and drive pitcher..eg Jensen Lewis) command is the usually a later or the last part of the repertoire that returns.. Being 6'5" certainly doens't help keep all the moving parts in the right spots at the right time... By moving him to the pen..his velocity improved and he relied on only his fastball / slider combination. He is getting to that magical 25 1/2 year old range, so he's getting to a make or break situation. Being a lefty, it's not the time to give up on his as he's had at least one and part of another season ruined by injury.. so.. patience will have to be the watchword..

For these reasons: lack of progress at AA & conversion to the bullpen and age, he was moved down from a top ten prospect.. to a 10-20 prospect
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:09 pm

I think your criticisms of Hagadone are valid. Personally, I think we expected too much last year. I cannot recall the specifics of my last list to Tony but I recall wavering between 8 & 9. Without looking it up, I think he had never thrown more than 30+ IP in any year professionally and he was utilized as a closer in college with low IP. Given his history of arm trouble and limited IP, I believe his 80+ IP this year represents a big step forward. Once he reached Akron, he was in uncharted territory as far as IP goes. I am more willing to give him a pass during his stint in Akron while he built up his arm strength. I would also guess the Indians will limit his IP once again this year to around 120-135. AS he gets further from the surgery, I would be surprised if his command does not improve somewhat. How much I cannot say. But he still has two plus pitches (maybe even a plus plus) and what could charitably be called a WIP third pitch. IMO, he is one of three pitchers in the organization that has the natural gifts for true #1 starter potential. It is just a guess at this point but I think my ranking of Hagadone will be similar to last year. :pleasantry:
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:37 pm

# 3 Levon Washington.. Seems like a rather high spot in the above listed rating, however, this kid is incredibly explosive as it relates to his baseball ability. He has a Brandon Phillps type stance, carries his hands relatively low and is very quick with the bat through the hitting zone.. He would beat Kenny in a race from home plate to first.. or first to third..if they were to race..in his prime. Levon is highly athletic and, with maturity (he's going turn 20 next July) he'll fill out his 5'11" 170 pounds to about 190-195 and have the kind of top of the order impact that you look for in a leadoff hitter. His best position may be CF.. but it wouldn't surprise me if he gets a look at 2B as well.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:44 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:# 3 Levon Washington.. Seems like a rather high spot in the above listed rating, however, this kid is incredibly explosive as it relates to his baseball ability. He has a Brandon Phillps type stance, carries his hands relatively low and is very quick with the bat through the hitting zone.. He would beat Kenny in a race from home plate to first.. or first to third..if they were to race..in his prime. Levon is highly athletic and, with maturity (he's going turn 20 next July) he'll fill out his 5'11" 170 pounds to about 190-195 and have the kind of top of the order impact that you look for in a leadoff hitter. His best position may be CF.. but it wouldn't surprise me if he gets a look at 2B as well.


Most scouts actually liked him at 2B better due to his arm that makes Johnny Damon look like Choo. Many don't think it's just the injury and that he will struggle in CF (pre-draft 2009 many thought he'd end up in LF). Indians with their depth at 2B seem determined to keep him in CF though. Makes more sense going forward. I would be very suprised to see 2B in the near future unless his arm doesn't improve, despite the fact that his defense in the OF in high school was actually one of the biggest knocks on him. Hopefully just needs more time there as he played more infield in high school than outfield, and it showed when scouts watched him.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:51 pm

Not sure this needs a new thread or not, but the Harball Times has their Tribe top 10 list out now.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/fantasy/article/2011-top-10-prospects-cleveland-indians-and-minnesota-twins/


Some interesting picks and comments.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:12 pm

The Washington talk in the Top 5-10 is legit. If you are basing the list off "potential", he may be the best position player prospect in the system. This is obviously helped because right now he is all potential as there is very little actual data to evaluate him on in the minors.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:26 pm

...basing the list off "potential", he may be the best position player prospect in the system...
No question about it.. his four hits in nine at bats is really all that we have to base this kind of rating on him.. but when you watch film clips on him.. you can see how he keeps his hands back and has a very short compact stroke to the ball. Add the plus plus impact speed he has and he could become every bit the leadoff guy that Lofton was during the Indians run during the 90's.. THe shoulder operation will take some time to rehab and generate the kind of strength needed to be a c-OF'er.. This is his only real defficiency going forward... He's an exciting player.. and worthy of a high rating.. imho...
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:11 am

Kyle Bellows makes the list at # 28 as a "who's that guy?" kind of addition. Bellows has shown some reasonable, but not great numbers in the short season rookie level and subsequent high A level. He would project as a guy that has the ability to be the quintissential Super-Utility guy that was once occupied at the MLB level by Mighty Casey Blake.. Bellows may actually be better in several respects:

Position: 3B/SS/2B/c-OF/1B: He was a shortstop coming out of college (SDSU) but with his size and frame, he should be considered a corner player i.e. third base, first base, Right Field and or left field.. His glove makes him perhaps the best fielding corner infielder in the Indians minor league system... it's that good.

Arm: Strong and accurate as there is in the lower levels of the Indians minor league system..this is an arm that is well suited for right field as well as balls (he gets to at SS) deep in the hole on the infield.

Bat: He gets a LOT of XBH's while striking out one in every five AB's.. he draws half as many walks as strike outs. He appears to have a slight tic in his swing as he raises his hands then drops them while striding forward in the batters box with his slight upper cut swing. He's only 21 years old, so he has some time to correct his swing.. and w/ the xbh numbers.. would project to having decent power numbers as he advances. If nothing else, for the 2011 season, the Indians need to put him at one position (3B) and let him play every day.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby JP_Frost » Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:58 am

I'll see if I can come up with a top 30 today. Haven't been in a baseball state of mind lately, so I need to shake off the rust.

Seems like it gets harder every year to come up with these lists in terms of order.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby artgold » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:02 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Kyle Bellows makes the list at # 28 as a "who's that guy?" kind of addition. Bellows has shown some reasonable, but not great numbers in the short season rookie level and subsequent high A level. He would project as a guy that has the ability to be the quintissential Super-Utility guy that was once occupied at the MLB level by Mighty Casey Blake..


I went back and forth on Bellows towards the end of my list, he was one of those guys I would have tracked closer had I known the minor league splits site was going to be taken down.

Looking at my in season notes though I had some concerns about his lack of in-season progress. I had a note that he had an awful lot of "0 fer" games, seems to be a guy who either gets multiple hits in a game or does nothing at all. I also had a note about his walk rate being pretty low, and it seems he walked less as the season progressed. His BB/K rate is nothing to write home about, and his extra base hit rate was pretty ordinary for a guy with "plus power".

Overall he is someone to follow, but I just didn't see much in the way of in-season progress. One of the best things to keep in mind about him though is that he had some really, really, really strange splits. For example, and he is a right handed hitter, he hit only .189 against lefties, but .282 against righties. Also, his home/road split was really strange, batting .193/.253/.307 at Kinston, but .307/.374/.455 on the road.

I guess if you are playing on the road and against a right handed pitcher, Bellows is your guy...
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:23 pm

I guess if you are playing on the road and against a right handed pitcher, Bellows is your guy...
:s_rofl :s_rofl

When you look at his numbers at SDSU.. while still with the Al Bats.. his numbers were spectacular..and he got lots of XBH's... When he was put in one spot.. and wasn't moved.. his BA rose.. and he got lots of XBH's.. Seems like a change in his position has an deleterious effect on his offense. That said.. he's definitely a watch/wait/see kind of prospect. He's got the frame and the pedigree to become a MLB player.. that's why he ended up near the bottom of the list...
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:49 am

1. Lonnie Chisenhall
2. Jason Kipnis
3. Alex White
4. Levon Washington
5. Drew Pomeranz
6. Jason Knapp
7. Nick Weglarz
8. Chun Chen
9. Bryce Stowell
10. Kelvin De La Cruz
11. Rob Bryson
12. Joe Gardner
13. Scott Barnes
14. Nick Hagadone
15. Giovanny Urshela
16. Tony Wolters
17. Cord Phelps
18. T.J. House
19. Corey Kluber
20. Zach Putnam
21. Felix Sterling
22. Josh Judy
23. Vinnie Pestano
24. Giovanni Soto
25. Matt Packer
26. Chen Lee
27. Zach McAllister
28. Roberto Perez
29. Kyle Bellows
30. Bo Greenwell
others: Kyle Blair, Matt McBride, Cory Burns, Paolo Espino, Matt Langwell
*If Hector Rondon was healthy I would rank him 9 and drop the others all one slot.*
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:59 am

Another good list... Chun Chen that high?

After switching around the top five, which, imho, can be considered in any order as a lot of evaluations are more a matter of taste than substance, it's interesting that you've placed Chun Chen so high up... From what I've seen and understand about Chun, he's a lot like Victor Martinez with respect to being able to barrel the bat on the ball. When he made contact, it has that "sound", at least at the game I was at in Eastlake's Classic Park. He has very good / quick feet which is essential to becomng an elite defensive catcher. His arm seemed solid, but, there were no base stealing attempts to actually see it. He seems so young, too (just turned 22.. but looks like he's about 17) and is a big kid. Asians are notorious for their work ethic.. so if he continues to work at his craft, he should get better, stronger and faster..
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:31 am

Felix Sterling... made all three lists in the bottom third (21, 22, & 30th, respectively) of the listing... Oh so young to be that talented.. Has a feel for pitching while still being too young to be anything but a thrower at this time.. His repertoire includes a plus fastball, a good change and something offspeed that might become worth labeling at a later date.. VERY YOUNG.. A note was made regarding the lack of FA's from Latin America.. well, like the waiver wire (with Carlos Rivero) and, perhaps, the Rule V draft (with Adam Miller).. it only takes one.. Sterling could be that "one".. perhaps in 2014, maybe a year more or less, either way...
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:43 pm

1. Lonnie Chisenhall
2. Jason Kipnis
3. Alex White
4. Jason Knapp
5. Drew Pomeranz
6. Nick Weglarz
7. LeVon Washington
8. Chun Chen
9. Joseph Gardner
10. Kelvin De La Cruz
11. Nick Hagadone
12. Cord Phelps
13. TJ House
14. Scott Barnes
15. Tony Wolters
16. Bryce Stowell
17. Rob Bryson
18. Giovanny Urshela
19. Zach Putnam
20. Kyle Blair
21. Corey Kluber
22. Giovanni Soto
23. Josh Judy
24. Felix Sterling
25. Matt Packer
26. Zach McAllister
27. Kyle Bellows
28. Hector Rondon
29. Alexander Perez
30. Tyler Holt

Obviously Rondon and Perez would be higher if healthy, same goes for Adam Miller. I included Holt because I really think he could sneak up on people next year and while he has a limited ceiling I like his tools better than Greenwell's for example.

For some reason I feel like I really left someone out (maybe Abreu, but damn what a miserable year), but I kind of winged it anyway :s_dunno
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby MadThinker88 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:33 am

JP_Frost wrote:For some reason I feel like I really left someone out (maybe Abreu, but damn what a miserable year), but I kind of winged it anyway :s_dunno


Individuals are able to adjust/ change their submitted lists at any point up until the deadline on January 17. Feel free to adjust yours with more thought on the matter JP.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:57 am

Its a good problem the Tribe has. There is a lot of talent. I think a case could have been made for Michael Goodnight in the late 20's. I myself left out Alexander Perez, Abner Abreu and Bryan Price and all should have been on the list somewhere.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby indianinkslinger » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:46 am

JP_Frost wrote:1. Lonnie Chisenhall
2. Jason Kipnis
3. Alex White
4. Jason Knapp
5. Drew Pomeranz
6. Nick Weglarz
7. LeVon Washington
8. Chun Chen
9. Joseph Gardner
10. Kelvin De La Cruz
11. Nick Hagadone
12. Cord Phelps
13. TJ House
14. Scott Barnes
15. Tony Wolters
16. Bryce Stowell
17. Rob Bryson
18. Giovanny Urshela
19. Zach Putnam
20. Kyle Blair
21. Corey Kluber
22. Giovanni Soto
23. Josh Judy
24. Felix Sterling
25. Matt Packer
26. Zach McAllister
27. Kyle Bellows
28. Hector Rondon
29. Alexander Perez
30. Tyler Holt

Obviously Rondon and Perez would be higher if healthy, same goes for Adam Miller. I included Holt because I really think he could sneak up on people next year and while he has a limited ceiling I like his tools better than Greenwell's for example.

For some reason I feel like I really left someone out (maybe Abreu, but damn what a miserable year), but I kind of winged it anyway :s_dunno

Nice list JP. Actually it is difficult to have a bad list with so many similar prospects. Of the 40, you have dropped Jordan Brown, Todd and Hermann which don't make my 30 either and Vinnie Pestano who makes my 30 and might be the one you left out. You are a bit higher on Holt than me. Just talking about position players from the recent draft, Laviskey comes in well ahead of Holt IMO but you are far more familiar with the draftees than I am. :good:
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby jellis » Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:46 pm

1 Drew Pomeranz
2 Jason Knapp
3 Lonnie Chisenhall
4 Jason Kipnis
5 Nick Weglarz
6 Alex White
7 Lavon Washington
8 Nick Hagadone
9 Joe Gardner
10 Cord Phelps
11 Chun Chen
12 TJ House
13 Hector Rondon
14 Kelvin De La Cruz
15 Bryce Stowell
16 Alexander Perez
17 Zach Putnam
18 Tony Wolters
19 Alex Lavisky
20 Adam Abreu
21 Giovanny Urshela
22 Vinnie Pestano
23 Felix Sterling
24 Corey Kluber
25 Zach McAllister
26 Scott Barnes
27 Rob Byrson
28 Matt Packer
29 Tyler Holt
30 Giovanni Soto

My next 5 would be Burns, Judy, Perez, Espino, and Blair. Those are in no particular order. I know I am higher on Pomeranz then anyone, but I stand if he had been healthy all last year he would have been the second pick in the draft and I think he has FOR ability.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby MadThinker88 » Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:58 pm

Thanks for the submission jellis.

While you are the 1st to rate Drew #1, you might not be the last. Interestingly, you are the 1st to not list Kipnis as #2 (just saying).
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby jellis » Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:31 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:Thanks for the submission jellis.

While you are the 1st to rate Drew #1, you might not be the last. Interestingly, you are the 1st to not list Kipnis as #2 (just saying).


I just think Kipnis is good, but he doesnt have the upside of the top 3 to me at least. I think he is a bit over rated as I think some Tribe fans want to think he is the top 2B prospect in all of baseball or at worst top 3.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby JP_Frost » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:30 pm

jellis wrote:
MadThinker88 wrote:Thanks for the submission jellis.

While you are the 1st to rate Drew #1, you might not be the last. Interestingly, you are the 1st to not list Kipnis as #2 (just saying).


I just think Kipnis is good, but he doesnt have the upside of the top 3 to me at least. I think he is a bit over rated as I think some Tribe fans want to think he is the top 2B prospect in all of baseball or at worst top 3.


I belong in that group, but I'm interested in hearing your top 2nd base prospects in baseball.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby A.Zajac » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:48 pm

1. Lonnie Chisenhall
2. Jason Kipnis
3. Alex White
4. Jason Knapp
5. Drew Pomeranz
6. Nick Weglarz
7. LeVon Washington
8. Chun Chen
9. Joe Gardner
10. Tony Wolters
11. Nick Hagadone
12. Cord Phelps
13. Kelvin de la Cruz
14. TJ House
15. Scott Barnes
16. Bryce Stowell
17. Rob Bryson
18. Giovanny Urshela
19. Zach Putnam
20. Josh Judy
21. Corey Kluber
22. Giovanni Soto
23. Kyle Blair
24. Matt Packer
25. Alex Lavisky
26. Hector Rondon
27. Kyle Bellows
28. Zach McAllister
29. Alexander Perez
30. Vinnie Pestano
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:29 pm

... interested in hearing your top 2nd base prospects in baseball..
Ackley Lawrie Weeks Frazier & Young?
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:04 am

More on:
Chun-Hsiu Chen, Lake County (58 games)/Kinston (52 games): The 21-year-old Chen enjoyed a breakout season, earning Midwest League All-Star and Futures Game honors. He posted an .887 OPS in 58 games with Kinston and boosted that number to .966 in 52 games after being promoted to Lake County. Chen also enjoyed a strong year behind the plate, throwing out 37 percent of base-runners.

"He provided a lot of life for us in the middle of the lineup," Kinston manager Aaron Holbert said. "He drove in some runs, he hit a few homers with us, scored some runs. He was a great addition, especially down that stretch run, to fill in the middle of that order.

"He has good feet and a good arm, it was huge for us to have a guy like that back there."
While going from the K-tribe to the Captains isn't a promotion.. the rest of the article from Minor League Baseball is pretty accurate and makes Chen well deserving of a high place in the prospect rankings..
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby MadThinker88 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:18 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:More on:
Chun-Hsiu Chen, Lake County (58 games)/Kinston (52 games): The 21-year-old Chen enjoyed a breakout season, earning Midwest League All-Star and Futures Game honors. He posted an .887 OPS in 58 games with Kinston and boosted that number to .966 in 52 games after being promoted to Lake County. Chen also enjoyed a strong year behind the plate, throwing out 37 percent of base-runners.

"He provided a lot of life for us in the middle of the lineup," Kinston manager Aaron Holbert said. "He drove in some runs, he hit a few homers with us, scored some runs. He was a great addition, especially down that stretch run, to fill in the middle of that order.

"He has good feet and a good arm, it was huge for us to have a guy like that back there."
While going from the K-tribe to the Captains isn't a promotion.. the rest of the article from Minor League Baseball is pretty accurate and makes Chen well deserving of a high place in the prospect rankings..


The writer is a little mixed up. Chen started the year in Lake County and was promoted to Kinston about half way thru the season. I remember seeing Chen as the DH (& Bryson in relief) when I saw the Captains in Dayton in late April.
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby jellis » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:47 am

JP_Frost wrote:
jellis wrote:
MadThinker88 wrote:Thanks for the submission jellis.

While you are the 1st to rate Drew #1, you might not be the last. Interestingly, you are the 1st to not list Kipnis as #2 (just saying).


I just think Kipnis is good, but he doesnt have the upside of the top 3 to me at least. I think he is a bit over rated as I think some Tribe fans want to think he is the top 2B prospect in all of baseball or at worst top 3.


I belong in that group, but I'm interested in hearing your top 2nd base prospects in baseball.



Ackley, lawrie, I would take Segura too in ANH who is really flying under the radar and might have the best upside of any 2B
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby jellis » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:51 am

jellis wrote:
JP_Frost wrote:
jellis wrote:
MadThinker88 wrote:Thanks for the submission jellis.

While you are the 1st to rate Drew #1, you might not be the last. Interestingly, you are the 1st to not list Kipnis as #2 (just saying).


I just think Kipnis is good, but he doesnt have the upside of the top 3 to me at least. I think he is a bit over rated as I think some Tribe fans want to think he is the top 2B prospect in all of baseball or at worst top 3.


I belong in that group, but I'm interested in hearing your top 2nd base prospects in baseball.



Ackley, lawrie, I would take Segura too in ANH who is really flying under the radar and might have the best upside of any 2B



I also want to say I think Kipnis is a solid, hes one of the top 5 2B prospects in baseball, I just see a very good player with some nice peak years. Maybe a bit of a homeless mans Jeff Kent
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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby MadThinker88 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:03 pm

Hey GeronimoSon,

Its up to you but you can remove Josh Rodriguez from your Gallery listing and and another (either in the 27th spot or at the 30th spot and move up the last 3). Just edit your listing and let me know.

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Re: The 2011 Gallery

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:16 pm

done..
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