Indians Prospect Insider - Covering the Cleveland Indians from the Minors to the Big Leagues

Kerry Wood

Talk about the Cleveland Indians, Major League Baseball, and other sports.

Kerry Wood

Postby endlesssleeper » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:11 pm

According to Anthony Castrovince, Indians mlb.com beat writer, the Indians may be close to acquiring Kerry Wood with a two-year contract. Interesting......

http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/
endlesssleeper
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:37 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:23 pm

I had read that we had discussions with him. If it's only two years, I say good move. Still would prefer Hoffman on a 1-year deal though.....
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7096
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby endlesssleeper » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:29 pm

Official article now up:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... &fext=.jsp

I'm iffy on this deal, but only because of Wood's arm troubles. With that being said, 84 k's in 66.1 innings is something the Indians haven't had in a closer in a long time.
endlesssleeper
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:37 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby indianinkslinger » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:22 pm

Kudos to Castrovince if this is true. He got himself a scoop on the home team. Other sites are a bit more guarded but there appears to be some substance. I don't think any of us can predict Wood's health but I like the boldness. If this pans out, Shapiro has all his trading chips intact and hasn't broken the bank. I would say this explains the Mastny move reasonably well. Seems like a reasonable upgrade to the 40 to me. And there is still another available slot if needed. We may have an indicator of Shapiro's thinking that some have been searching for. :s_cool
indianinkslinger
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2493
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:11 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:34 pm

For only two gauranteed years? I'm 100% down with this. Would be a very good signing if you ask me.
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5053
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby jellis » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:41 pm

better cost like no more than 7 to 8 mil a year, just not sure you are basically getting a guy who have NEVER been healthy even last year
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby npc29 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:56 pm

jellis wrote:better cost like no more than 7 to 8 mil a year, just not sure you are basically getting a guy who have NEVER been healthy even last year


Given that K-Rod didn't get what he want and the Closers Market is flooded with more options than there are demands, I'm going to guess we are getting Kerry Wood cheaper than expected.

Still.. It isn't so much about the money than it is about the length. Two years is perfect, and if this comes through, I'm going to be very excited.
npc29
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:59 pm
Location: Kent, OH

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:15 pm

My guess? 2/15 with incentives to push the per year amount up in 2009 and 2010. And the third year 2011 club option at $9M with a $1M buyout and again with incentives to push the 2011 amount up a $1M-2M.
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5053
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby indianinkslinger » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:28 pm

Consigliere wrote:My guess? 2/15 with incentives to push the per year amount up in 2009 and 2010. And the third year 2011 club option at $9M with a $1M buyout and again with incentives to push the 2011 amount up a $1M-2M.


Yeah TL, it is beginning to look as if the deal is set except for Wood's physical which may be a hurdle. ESPN is not the greatest source but that seems to be the jist of their recent post. Hey, this guy is a health risk but he has talent. I think your numbers are probably close but Shapiro did not ask for advice at the Bellagio lunch buffet.
indianinkslinger
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2493
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:11 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:30 pm

According to Drennen on STO, Shapiro to talk to the media at about 7pm. This could just be his usual daily report with the media he conducts during the winter meetings, but according to him there is a feeling that a deal could be announced then.
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5053
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby MickS » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:21 pm

I like it. A lot. Even with Wood's injury history. I prefer Wood to Hoffman because I just dn't know how Hoffman's 86 m.p.h. fastball will translate to the A.L. at this advanced stage of his career.

Now Shoppach to the Red Sox for Lowrie and Bowden and we're done. Or for Buchholtz straight up. I'm fine with either but the latter means we need another move for a 2B. Furcal?
MickS
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:18 am

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby jellis » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:02 pm

MickS wrote:I like it. A lot. Even with Wood's injury history. I prefer Wood to Hoffman because I just dn't know how Hoffman's 86 m.p.h. fastball will translate to the A.L. at this advanced stage of his career.

Now Shoppach to the Red Sox for Lowrie and Bowden and we're done. Or for Buchholtz straight up. I'm fine with either but the latter means we need another move for a 2B. Furcal?



would like both of those deals but Boston is not trading Bucholz or Lowrie, Lugo is the only MI Boston will be moving
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby MickS » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:28 pm

jellis wrote:
MickS wrote:I like it. A lot. Even with Wood's injury history. I prefer Wood to Hoffman because I just dn't know how Hoffman's 86 m.p.h. fastball will translate to the A.L. at this advanced stage of his career.

Now Shoppach to the Red Sox for Lowrie and Bowden and we're done. Or for Buchholtz straight up. I'm fine with either but the latter means we need another move for a 2B. Furcal?



would like both of those deals but Boston is not trading Bucholz or Lowrie, Lugo is the only MI Boston will be moving


Let them choke on Lugo then. They need a catcher more than we need to move a catcher. Keep Shoppach and look elsewhere to fill the holes.
MickS
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:18 am

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby Jake Taylor » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:04 pm

Get Wood, let him help teach Miller, and if Miller stays healthy move him back into the starting rotation.
Jake Taylor
Rookie Baller
 
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:19 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby jellis » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:23 pm

from espn

• Kerry Wood appears to be headed to either Cleveland or Texas, likely for two years and $12 million-$14 million.
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby Jake Taylor » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:39 pm

Whoa, where did Texas come from? Did that name just come in as a fallback plan? Everything speculated to this point had him coming our way...
Jake Taylor
Rookie Baller
 
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:19 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby Duane Kuiper » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:51 pm

Wood is from Texas and Nolan Ryan would love to have Wood playing for his Rangers.
Duane Kuiper
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:51 am

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby npc29 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:53 pm

Texas is his home-state... it does seem like it was pulled out of thin air though.

The Phillies showed that you need to take some risks to win a title. They did it by trading what looked to be a promising outfielder for a guy who lost his way as a closer.

If our risk is Kerry Wood, who had a great year last year, I'm on board.
npc29
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:59 pm
Location: Kent, OH

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby endlesssleeper » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:34 am

Steve Phillips wrote that Texas thing and he is a mega-tool, so I wouldn't trust that information.
endlesssleeper
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:37 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:41 am

FWIW, Rotowire has called it official this morning. Purportedly two years and vesting for a third. :s_biggrin
indianinkslinger
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2493
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:11 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby jellis » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:43 am

indianinkslinger wrote:FWIW, Rotowire has called it official this morning. Purportedly two years and vesting for a third. :s_biggrin



thanks great info
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby dnosco » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:22 am

This seems like a Kevin Millwood signing, to me, and, as such, represents how Shapiro does his business. He has been successful with guys either coming off injuries (Howry and Betancourt, among others) or with injury concerns (Millwood, Borowski). Still, you gotta look at the difference between KRod and Wood in terms of consistency and productivity. Heck, even throwing in Fuentes and others it looks like we are bottom feeding again. Not that Wood is bad but he has had one year as a closer (so no comments on how we finally got a closer, because we have no idea if he will continue or improve on his production) and is often hurt....that doesn't seem like shopping at a department store but, rather, shopping at Wal-Mart.

Still, depending on the money and the vesting, having Wood is much better than not adding anyone.

The only thing that scares me is why would anyone come to play in Cleveland when they have other options. I mean, Millwood and Borowski had no (or very few) other options when they signed. Why would a guy like Wood come here? It is a question we should always ask ourselves...especially with a guy with his injury history.
dnosco
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2448
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:10 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:27 am

Fuentes lost his closers job in 2007 and wasn't even the closer to start 2008 for the Rockies. I'm very glad we didn't get him.

If this is indeed a 2yr/$12M deal then the Indians got an absolute steal. even 2yr/$14M isn't bad. Still have money and the players to trade in order to fill a rotation spot and infield spot.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7096
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby npc29 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:33 am

dnosco wrote:The only thing that scares me is why would anyone come to play in Cleveland when they have other options. I mean, Millwood and Borowski had no (or very few) other options when they signed. Why would a guy like Wood come here? It is a question we should always ask ourselves...especially with a guy with his injury history.


:s_dunno Why not?

Maybe he wants to win and this team has the potential to do so. Does Texas? Not really, unless they add more pieces.
npc29
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:59 pm
Location: Kent, OH

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:37 am

Exactly. Cleveland gives him a chance to win. Plus Cleveland has a VERY good reputation for it's training staff around the league. Wood being an injury risk may see Cleveland as a great spot to land.

Also, Wood resides in Arizona where our new state of the art spring training facility is located.....
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7096
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:48 am

YahooSports is reporting it's a done deal with Wood and Cleveland.

Full details aren't available, but they say he passed his physical and it's 2 years and likely an option 3rd year.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7096
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby endlesssleeper » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:11 pm

dnosco wrote:This seems like a Kevin Millwood signing, to me, and, as such, represents how Shapiro does his business. He has been successful with guys either coming off injuries (Howry and Betancourt, among others) or with injury concerns (Millwood, Borowski). Still, you gotta look at the difference between KRod and Wood in terms of consistency and productivity. Heck, even throwing in Fuentes and others it looks like we are bottom feeding again. Not that Wood is bad but he has had one year as a closer (so no comments on how we finally got a closer, because we have no idea if he will continue or improve on his production) and is often hurt....that doesn't seem like shopping at a department store but, rather, shopping at Wal-Mart.

Still, depending on the money and the vesting, having Wood is much better than not adding anyone.

The only thing that scares me is why would anyone come to play in Cleveland when they have other options. I mean, Millwood and Borowski had no (or very few) other options when they signed. Why would a guy like Wood come here? It is a question we should always ask ourselves...especially with a guy with his injury history.


What do ya know, dnosco finds a way to twist this into something bad for the tribe. So Wood must be hiding an injury since he accepted the Cleveland deal???? Makes about as much sense as your Carlos Santana must not be that good if we got him argument. (Which just to clarify, made absolutely no sense.)
endlesssleeper
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:37 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby Jake Taylor » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:17 pm

It sounds like the deal will be highly incentive based. Thinking this deal is anything but outstanding is insane to me.
Jake Taylor
Rookie Baller
 
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:19 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby dnosco » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:55 pm

"What do ya know, dnosco finds a way to twist this into something bad for the tribe. So Wood must be hiding an injury since he accepted the Cleveland deal???? Makes about as much sense as your Carlos Santana must not be that good if we got him argument. (Which just to clarify, made absolutely no sense.)"

Name me one ML free agent we signed in the past 5 years who didn't come with injury baggage or something else that made them a bargain basement pickup? The answer is that there aren't any, at least by my check of the Indians website (if I missed any, I apologize in advance)

2002

Mark Wohlers - couldn't throw the ball over the plate
Jose Santiago - roster filler

2003

Jason Bere - made only 16 starts the year before. Injured?
Brian Anderson
Terry Mulholland
Ronnie Belliard - overweight

2004

Jose Jimenez - high ERA in Colorado after early success
Jose Hernandez

2005

Alex Cora
Kevin Millwood - Bad arm that the Indians took a chance on
Jason Johnson
Paul Byrd - History of injuries at that point, almost every other year

2006

David Dellucci - speaks for itself as he was coming off a near career year and came back to earth
Roberto Herndanez - old guy who didn't have it anymore

2007

Trot Nixon - platoon player on the downside of his career
Keith Foulke - injured guy
Masa Kobayashi - had performance decline and injuries in Japan before he signed

Now, you mean to tell me that a top closer is signing early with the Indians of all teams and we are supposed to believe he is the next coming and there isn't a lot of risk there that his agent would jump at the Indians' meager money? Please! If he is healthy he is useful but that health issue is a big gamble on our part. Plus, why would a guy like Wood sign early? Couldn't he do better in the game of closer musical chairs after the big boys all were signed? Now, I admit, I don't know who needs a closer and there may be more closers available than there are spots for closers but, save that, signing early with a small budget team like the Indians makes no sense...if everything else is equal.

A good example of this is why the Padres would trade a potential future all-star secondbaseman (Barfield) who did well hitting in an extreme pitchers' park for a decent but not great third base prospect with a history of having a bad back (Kouzmanoff) and a relief pitcher prospect who had stuff but hadn't been able to break through AND was out of options (Andrew Brown)? I posed the same question at the time and was greeted with the same type of response as the above.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it is probably not an Aflac commercial!

Regarding Santana, time will tell there, too. But if you honestly believe that the Dodgers would trade one of the top prospects in baseball PLUS a major leaguer-ready setup or closer prospect for two months of Caeey Blake well, then you believe Michael Brantley is going to be the next Kenny Lofton, Rob Bryson was a top relief prospect when we got him and Matt LaPorta and Zach Jackson are going to be important members of the 2009 Cleveland Indians. If you close your eyes and squint real hard, you can convince yourself of anything.
dnosco
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2448
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:10 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:01 pm

Ronnie Belliard may have been 'overweight' but it didn't hinder his play at all before or after the trade.

In fact made the All-Star team with us. He didn't have any injury risk or anything close, so he shouldn't be included on that list.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7096
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:07 pm

Jesus Denny, do you even have fun following baseball? Don't like the draft, the FA signings, the 40-man roster selections, the CC trade, the Blake deal, etc. Sit back and take a deep breath man. :s_empathy
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5053
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:19 pm

ugh....

Now SI is reporting that it's a 2yr/$20M deal.....$10M/year sounds way too much IMO.....but maybe that includes some incentives or part or a buyout for an option year.....still, doesn't look as nice as the 2yr/$12-14M looked.....
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7096
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby cardiackidz » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:31 pm

i like the signing of wood i live close to chicago and he wore down as the season went on last year. when and if they sign wood what does shapiro go after next?
cardiackidz
Rookie Baller
 
Posts: 397
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:25 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:35 pm

2/20 or 2/14, I don't care. I am not one who really worries about the per year amount, but the amount of years. To me, two years for under $10M per is good. He was the second best closer available on the FA market and in trade...and we got him for a two year committment.

I do think though the 2/20 thing includes some things like a signing bonus, the third year option buyout, and some easily attainable incentives....so I think in the end he is still around $8M per give or take $500K.
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5053
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby dnosco » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:38 pm

I would have to guess that it is NOT 2 year and $20 million as, for $17 million and another year more you get arguably the top closer and saves-in-one-year record holder.

"Jesus Denny, do you even have fun following baseball? Don't like the draft, the FA signings, the 40-man roster selections, the CC trade, the Blake deal, etc. Sit back and take a deep breath man."

I love baseball. Just don't care much for and don't give credit to things that don't make logical sense. Kerry Wood signing with the Indians when there were other options out there is not logical unless we way overpaid him for the risk we were taking. John Mirabelli has produced nothing in the early rounds of the draft yet people still give him the benefit of the doubt in the 2008 draft when his early round picks don't make good sense. People are willing to call Blake trade a steal just because they want Santana to be that good of a prospect. Being satisfied with the CC trade when we could have waited longer and probably gotten more AND our PTBNL wouldn't have been tied to the other team making the playoffs (we had to make the deal THEN, we had to allow the PTBNL to be picked by Milwaukee if they didn't make the playoffs, etc.). You are right about one thing, my opinion differs from almost everyone else's. But, as I said above, my caution about the Barfield trade was laughed at at that time, too, because no way Cleveland fans would have even CONSIDERED that maybe the Padres pulled the wool over our eyes on a trade that, from our end, appeared too good to be true. So, I'll just keep calling them as I see them.
dnosco
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2448
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:10 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:44 pm

Other than K-Rod, Wood was the bet free agent closer. Better than Fuentes. Hoffman could have a case made for being better....but age could have played into it plus his desire to remain out west.


I worry about the money though as NO closer is worth $10M per year. I'd rather spend that kind of money on a starter who will pitch twice as much.


The Blake deal is a steal even without Santana being a top 20 prospect in baseball. Blake was a type B free agent. We'd have gotten a sandwich pick for him. Would that pick ever turn out to be better than meloan or Santana? who knows, but getting 2 high end prospects for basically a utility guy that had a great year is a STEAL no matter how you wanna spin it.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7096
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby dnosco » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:46 pm

"2/20 or 2/14, I don't care. I am not one who really worries about the per year amount, but the amount of years. To me, two years for under $10M per is good. He was the second best closer available on the FA market and in trade...and we got him for a two year committment."


Yet you were fine with selling Paul Byrd for cash just so we could sign a few draft picks and you are OK with throwing more money at a serious injury risk than he is worth.

BTW, I am not really sure you can say that a guy who has been a closer for exactly one year can be called the second best closer available. If that was true, given how many teams need closers, he should have been able to do better than the Cleveland Indians, don't you think?

Plus, I think Fuentes is a better closer option. Wood throws hard but, for success, Hoffman on a one year deal is a better closer option than Wood.

Hey, I like Wood, but, as I said above, why, if he is good at 2 years and $20 million did he sign with Cleveland when he has repeatedly said he wants to pitch closer to his home in Texas?

"The Blake deal is a steal even without Santana being a top 20 prospect in baseball. Blake was a type B free agent. We'd have gotten a sandwich pick for him. Would that pick ever turn out to be better than meloan or Santana? who knows, but getting 2 high end prospects for basically a utility guy that had a great year is a STEAL no matter how you wanna spin it."


Agree 100% with this...except for your last statement. It should read "...is a steal no matter how ANYONE wants to spin it." It was clearly a steal...just not to the level people want to believe it was.
Last edited by dnosco on Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dnosco
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2448
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:10 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby MickS » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:47 pm

So the Santana acquisition is automatically akin to the Barfield acquisition (i.e., too good to be true) as opposed to the Cabrera acquisition (a real steal). Why is that Dennis? It's because you've made it a career goal to only see the negative in anything that the Indians do. Are you this unpleasant as a human being, in person, or are you just a negative a-hole on-line?
MickS
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:18 am

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby cardiackidz » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:51 pm

hoffman woudnt have been a bad signing but im tired of signing these guys that are near the end. kerry wood is in his prime and is a power arm that this bullpen has needed for years. his pitches miss bats and in late inning situations thats what a championship team needs. just take a look at bostons bullpen if anyone needs any examples.
cardiackidz
Rookie Baller
 
Posts: 397
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:25 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:53 pm

Denny, Wood is from Texas. He doesn't live there. He lives in Scottsdale, AZ, which is about 30-45 minutes from the new Indians training complex.

Seriously, I appreciate your love and passion for baseball....but man do you make this stuff way too complicated. :s_crazy

As for Byrd, who gives a crap. Trading him not only freed up some cash in the budget to get those picks signed, but it also gave about 8 starts to a Scott Lewis or a Zach Jackson who we otherwise may not have had a chance to get a look at in the rotation in August and September. And, on top of it all, the Indians would almost certainly not have offered him arbitration anyway since there is a good chance he would take it and they were prepared to move on without him.
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5053
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby dnosco » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:56 pm

MickS wrote:So the Santana acquisition is automatically akin to the Barfield acquisition (i.e., too good to be true) as opposed to the Cabrera acquisition (a real steal). Why is that Dennis? It's because you've made it a career goal to only see the negative in anything that the Indians do. Are you this unpleasant as a human being, in person, or are you just a negative a-hole on-line?


A moderator once told me that the easiest way to make a die-hard fan angry is to say that what he/she thinks is a positive for his team may, in fact, not be as positive as they would like to believe it is. So, Cleveland fans, if you think an oft-injured guy who has been a closer for exactly one year is a good catch at either $7 million or $10 million a year on a two year deal then go ahead. Just don't hold it against me that I don't necessarily do backflips over something that makes exactly zero logical sense...just like that the Padres would give away a future all-star for two questionable prospects, both of which they were forced to plug right into to their ML roster.

Tony, agreed on all your points regarding Byrd. It should just not be spun that we sold him to get money to sign prospects and FOR THAT REASON it was a good thing. Selling players for cash is something baseball frowns on, albeit not to this low a level, for good reason. It makes the team doing the selling richer and weaker with no guarantee of how they will use the money. So, while I liked clearing Byrd out I am not OK with people spinning it that it is a good thing because it allowed us to sign prospects when, from CC and Blake and Michaels, that money more than already existed.
Last edited by dnosco on Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dnosco
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2448
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:10 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:58 pm

cardiackidz wrote:hoffman woudnt have been a bad signing but im tired of signing these guys that are near the end. kerry wood is in his prime and is a power arm that this bullpen has needed for years. his pitches miss bats and in late inning situations thats what a championship team needs. just take a look at bostons bullpen if anyone needs any examples.


Bingo.

If anything, signing Wood over a guy like Hoffman is a good PR move for a team that the fans label as bargain bin shoppers. I'm tired of being thrifty....it is okay to splurge every once in awhile and to me the Wood signing meets both sides of the camp halfway with some splurging and also some good financial restraint (only 2 gauranteed years).
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5053
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:21 pm

dnosco wrote:
MickS wrote:So the Santana acquisition is automatically akin to the Barfield acquisition (i.e., too good to be true) as opposed to the Cabrera acquisition (a real steal). Why is that Dennis? It's because you've made it a career goal to only see the negative in anything that the Indians do. Are you this unpleasant as a human being, in person, or are you just a negative a-hole on-line?


A moderator once told me that the easiest way to make a die-hard fan angry is to say that what he/she thinks is a positive for his team may, in fact, not be as positive as they would like to believe it is. So, Cleveland fans, if you think an oft-injured guy who has been a closer for exactly one year is a good catch at either $7 million or $10 million a year on a two year deal then go ahead. Just don't hold it against me that I don't necessarily do backflips over something that makes exactly zero logical sense...just like that the Padres would give away a future all-star for two questionable prospects, both of which they were forced to plug right into to their ML roster.

Tony, agreed on all your points regarding Byrd. It should just not be spun that we sold him to get money to sign prospects and FOR THAT REASON it was a good thing. Selling players for cash is something baseball frowns on, albeit not to this low a level, for good reason. It makes the team doing the selling richer and weaker with no guarantee of how they will use the money. So, while I liked clearing Byrd out I am not OK with people spinning it that it is a good thing because it allowed us to sign prospects when, from CC and Blake and Michaels, that money more than already existed.


We didn't get any money from Blake and the money from Michaels wouldn't cover many of our late round picks. Continually bringing them up is pointless.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7096
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:27 pm

I agree you need to have some hard thrower/strike out guys in your pen......but great teams and World Series champs almost always develop their closers from within.


2002 was Percival with the Angels who they drafted and developed.
2003 was Looper with the Marlins who they got as a 23 year old in a trade 5 years earlier then developed him.
2004 was Foulke (exception, was traded for prior to the season).
2005 was Jenks with the White Sox.
2006 was Isrenhausen with the Cardinals who they had developed.
2007 was Papelbon with the Red Sox who they developed.
2008 was Lidge (another exception, was traded for prior to the season).


I'd rather have seen a 1yr deal with Hoffman then develop Miller, Perez, Moloan, or Sipp for the role by 2010. Could still happen with Wood I suppose but the money is a bit much for my liking....
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7096
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:33 pm

Hermie13 wrote:I agree you need to have some hard thrower/strike out guys in your pen......but great teams and World Series champs almost always develop their closers from within.


2002 was Percival with the Angels who they drafted and developed.
2003 was Looper with the Marlins who they got as a 23 year old in a trade 5 years earlier then developed him.
2004 was Foulke (exception, was traded for prior to the season).
2005 was Jenks with the White Sox.
2006 was Isrenhausen with the Cardinals who they had developed.
2007 was Papelbon with the Red Sox who they developed.
2008 was Lidge (another exception, was traded for prior to the season).


I'd rather have seen a 1yr deal with Hoffman then develop Miller, Perez, Moloan, or Sipp for the role by 2010. Could still happen with Wood I suppose but the money is a bit much for my liking....


Jenks and Issie both were with other orgs and were not developed by their WS winning team.

I don't believe there is any correlation here.
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5053
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:56 pm

Jenks was with another orginization but came up a White Sock and was pitching in their minor league system before being developed as a closer (claimed off waivers from the Angels). You are right on Ish though, forgot about his days as the closer with the A's (was a starter with the Mets).

Also, Wainwright was actually the closer during the playoffs that year (Ish was hurt and didn't pitch in the playoffs in 2006)......a guy developed from within by the Cards....


Could go back even further and you'd get all those Yanks teams with Rivera as well.


Could just be a coincidence.....but good teams tend to develop their closers from within using young talent....
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7096
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby jellis » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:12 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Jenks was with another orginization but came up a White Sock and was pitching in their minor league system before being developed as a closer (claimed off waivers from the Angels). You are right on Ish though, forgot about his days as the closer with the A's (was a starter with the Mets).

Also, Wainwright was actually the closer during the playoffs that year (Ish was hurt and didn't pitch in the playoffs in 2006)......a guy developed from within by the Cards....


Could go back even further and you'd get all those Yanks teams with Rivera as well.


Could just be a coincidence.....but good teams tend to develop their closers from within using young talent....


jenks had zero development with the soxes he was left off there 40 man roster and signed by the soxes that year, he ahd been pitching in the pen before that season he doesnt count
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby jellis » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:13 pm

so you end up with 3 in 7 years, doesnt matter who you have
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby jellis » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:18 pm

For all of Dennis comments there seems to be 4 teams in the CL market, Texas, Cleveland, Mil, COL. I think its pretty obvious the Indians have the ebst chance of winning anything in that group. The Indians made a mvoe when they did, because lets face it after CC signs Mil was going to join the market and targeting wood asn all star closer from there rival would be a very nice target.

The trade options seemed to fall out as Putz and Valverde were both pulled from the market more or less, unless you wanted to over pay. Fuentes has been good btu got to be scared by any player who has failed as a CL and wants a lot of money, sure his demands would have come down from 12 mil a year but I bet he still would want more than 10 mil a year.

Yes Wood is a risk, but he could be the best closer from this FA period. I mean better than Krod, who to me has some big red flags. Yes Wood has been a closer for one year, but everyone has to start somewhere and its hard to argue with what he did in that one year
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Kerry Wood

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:33 pm

jellis wrote:jenks had zero development with the soxes he was left off there 40 man roster and signed by the soxes that year, he ahd been pitching in the pen before that season he doesnt count


Jenks pitched more in the minors in 2005 than the majors (was down there for 35 games). He didn't have a save til the Sox moved him to closer at AA where he had 19 saves before getting called up the White Sox and saving 6 more there and then becoming their closer for the playoffs.


And like I said, you could go even further. Yanks won 4 in the late 90s/early 2000s with a guy they develop. Mesa was with the Tribe and we moved him to the bullpen in 94 then the closers role in 95 (even though we lost). the 95 Braves used Mark Wohlers who was a closer throughout the Braves system. '97 saw Rob Nen (who had been with teh Marlins since their inaugaration basically) as the Marlins closer. 2001 had Kim who was brought up through the D'backs system.

So since ML baseball went to 3 divisions only 4 WS teams didn't really develop their closers from within out of 14 (the 96 Yankees, the 2004 Red Sox, the 2006 Cardinals, and the 2008 Phillies)......
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7096
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Next

Return to Beyond The Minors

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron