LeBron appears to be gone

[Hermie13]

Thanks. You're right. I have no idea of the cap floor or ceiling. I guess they could trade young guys who have short contracts for Mo and Andy if the salaries mesh. Jamison is like Hafner, I guess.

The point is: get as young as you can within the rules. The details should be left to the people expert at this. But I still think that is the goal. Young and inexperienced? Who gives a flying flip? The problem, as I said, is if Gilbert does something stupid (see Jamison contract) and makes acquisitions that cost us future draft choices just trying to fulfill his promise. He fails, no one shows up, he gets pissed and sells/moves the team or we are in for years of bad basketball.

So, yeah, the details are difficult but the premise is still a very valid and viable one, IMHO.

Jamison is not like Hafner at all. If anyone is, it's Andy. Jamison actually should have some good trade value next year (if there's even an NBA season) as an expiring contract. Andy meanwhile is making over $9M in 2013-2014 still.

Mo won't get you a short contract. You'd have to take on a longer one to get rid of him most likely. Only nice thing about Mo is he has an opt out after this season....though he'd be leaving a lot of money on the table heading into a lockout year....


Plus, even if we did trade Andy and Mo for 1 year contracts....you just have to re-spend that money the following year. They'd be forced for example to just re-sign Moon and Parker...but instead of $2-3M deals they'd have to give them $6-8M deals to reach the salary floor.

So I agree that your point is valid, it is in fact not viable.


In the last 31 years, only 8 teams have won an NBA title. Compared to baseball where 8 teams have won in the last 10.


The only team that's built through the draft and won anything has been the Spurs. Lakers, Celtics, Heat, Pistons, and even the Bulls 2nd 3-peat.....nearly all through trades and free agency.


In reality the best thing the Cavs can do is spend while remaining under the luxury tax and hope for a miracle in the draft here in the future. And in fact, that is likely the goal going forward.




This whole discussion is the EXACT reason why I've been saying for years that a salary cap is the absolute worst idea for Major League Baseball.


I seriously fear for your health dnosco if there was in fact ever a cap put in place. I mean, with how upset you get over guys like Kearns being signed.....

If there was a $100M salary cap in baseball this year, there would be a $75M salary floor (NBA is 75%, believe the NFL was 70 or 75% as well). Not only would we have to have signed Kearns, Branyan, Grundle, Wright, and Redmond....but they each would have had to average around $4M just to reach that salary floor.

That's $4M Guaranteed money too. And if you wanted to trade one? You'd have to take on the same amount of money to remain above the salary floor....


Salary caps do NOT help small market teams. They hurt them.

[dnosco]

Interesting. Thanks for the insight. I know little or nothing about this subject so just am speculating.

What about trading these guys NOT for players but for draft picks and building that way? I understand about the draft and NBA champions but if you build a foundation with the draft, given the cap, you can then trade for guys who are cap burdens to other teams (done repeatedly in the past, I think). Thus your team's foundation can be the draft but it's backbone can be through those kinds of trades. I think, to a large extent, that is how the Cavs were built up until yesterday, that is.

[Hermie13]

Interesting. Thanks for the insight. I know little or nothing about this subject so just am speculating.

What about trading these guys NOT for players but for draft picks and building that way? I understand about the draft and NBA champions but if you build a foundation with the draft, given the cap, you can then trade for guys who are cap burdens to other teams (done repeatedly in the past, I think). Thus your team's foundation can be the draft but it's backbone can be through those kinds of trades. I think, to a large extent, that is how the Cavs were built up until yesterday, that is.

Not really possible either.

Again, if we trade Mo we have to add salary according the the NBA rules. So while we could trade him just for draft picks.....you'd still have to go out and sign a vet of some kind for a few million. And very few guys (no matter how bad) will sign only 1 year deals (especially with the lockout coming next year).


There is unfortunately no good way to build a team in the NBA. You need to get lucky on a draft pick (like Lebron or Dwight or Wade) then overspend the shit out of free agents and hope that you can also make some cap burden trades (as you hinted at). Building through the draft only works if you get a superstar. And in basketball that's extremely hard to find most drafts.


I'm very interested in seeing how Memphis does these next couple years....Mayo, Gay, Gasol, Theibet (no clue how to spell his name), and Conley are a nice young core.....but can they even climb to top 4 in their own conference, let alone win the title? I doubt it....

[dnosco]

Interestingly, the Cavaliers will apparently be picking up draft picks for LeBron.

Not a huge basketball fan anymore so I don't care how they do it or even IF they do it, but each move they make needs to have an eye on the future instead of the present. They should shoot to compete in 2013, not in 011 or 012.

As far as attendance and economic impact, the damage is done, no matter what they do. I think people came to see LeBron play. Winning was great but I don't even think winning will fill the seats any more. Didn't for the Indians and I don't see Cleveland as a basketball town without LeBron.

In any case, I got one thing I wanted out of this. The LeBron haters increased by a significant margin, even discounting the bump from Cleveland fans in that category. Good for him. I can't think of anyone who deserves it more.

So, Hermie, the conversation is all yours. Good to see there is one sport you know something about. Keep up the good work.

[theshow]

nterestingly, the Cavaliers will apparently be picking up draft picks for LeBron.

Not a huge basketball fan anymore so I don't care how they do it or even IF they do it, but each move they make needs to have an eye on the future instead of the present. They should shoot to compete in 2013, not in 011 or 012.

Dennis,

Really trying to find a correct way the fix the Cavs is not a simple at having an opinion about how to fix the Indians. You are dead on with all you opinions about the Indians, even if occasionally you are overbearing.

The Cavs can't simply build around the draft though. Why? Because unlike in baseball when there are a lot of prospects who can make contributions in the MLB at some point, the NBA draft generally only has 1-2 impact prospects. If you are not the worst team in the NBA, your team is probably not going to see any improvements through the draft. The Oklahoma City Thunder have done a good job building through the draft, but had they not tanked it the one year in Seattle to get Kevin Durant, I think all the nice role players they have would only make for a mediocre team. Another good thing that they did is they took advantage of the fact certain teams are in financial trouble in the league. The Utah Jazz drafted Eric Maynor in the first round last year, but had to cut salary and the Thunder simply got that player in exchange for cash.

Since the Cavs are not going to be bad enough to get Harrison Barnes with the #1 pick in 2011, if they want to get better without breaking it down the way Gilbert suggests it will there is no sure fire way to make it work. I really think it is pretty hopeless for that franchise if they don't just try to chop it all down and get draft picks. But the Minnesota Timberwolves have a ton of young draft picks on their team (Kevin Love, Corey Brewer, Jonny Flynn), and that has not made them into a good team since they dont have a star.

In closing, I think we are just going to have to hope for luck to fix the Cavs. Because even though you can have an opinion on what we should do, the bottom line is 1 player can be so vital is basketball, where as in baseball any 1 player is replacable.

[Hermie13]

So, Hermie, the conversation is all yours. Good to see there is one sport you know something about. Keep up the good work.

Good to see there are now two sports you know nothing about, lol

[Hermie13]

More important than the draft picks is the $16M trade exception we got.

This team isn't (and shouldn't) sit back and just hope to get lucky in the draft.

[A.Zajac]

Lebron on ESPN, asked if he called Cavs personally on Thursday, James said, "I didn't talk to anyone personally because I got to a point the last day, I heard so much throughout the whole process. The last day I wanted to be about ME."

[theshow]

Just a little remark about Jesse Jackson:

It is disgusting he is this desperate for attention. He has turned a very serious topic of racism in America, into a full out witch hunt against all white people. He has set the cause of African American's fight way back with his incessant "crying wolf." Jesse Jackson is one of the most hate-filled racists I have ever seen.
By the way, how about if you are a leader you show some values yourself? A love child with a 20 year old at 60 out of wedlock, Jesse? Why don't you look in the mirror instead of blaming other people like Gilbert.

[A.Zajac]

FWIW, Z is headed to Miami. Confirmed.

[InsaneJedi]

Sad to see. Z was always a favorite of mine, but his game has REALLY declined over the last two seasons. Is it known if the Cavs attempted to resign him? If they did not, I have no problem with him going to Miami; if he can't play for his home team, he could at least play with one of his favorite players. But if the Cavs did offer him a contract, I would be torn, because it would mean him choosing LeBron over Cleveland.

Also, will he be starting for Miami? They don't have much in the way of tall centers, but you'd have to think that he would be limited to less than 20 minutes a game.

[Hermie13]

Sad to see. Z was always a favorite of mine, but his game has REALLY declined over the last two seasons. Is it known if the Cavs attempted to resign him? If they did not, I have no problem with him going to Miami; if he can't play for his home team, he could at least play with one of his favorite players. But if the Cavs did offer him a contract, I would be torn, because it would mean him choosing LeBron over Cleveland.

Also, will he be starting for Miami? They don't have much in the way of tall centers, but you'd have to think that he would be limited to less than 20 minutes a game.

No....at least they'd be nuts to. Haslem just re-signed and they brought in Jawad Howard who played well for Portland last year.

Honestly think Z will find it hard to get even 20 minutes a game unless Bosh is sitting a lot allowng Haslem to slide to the 4.

[TonyIBI]

Yes, the Cavs had a contract offer on the table for him. Seeing that he signed for the vet minimum with Miami, the Cavs offer was equal or greater. He chose to go for the ring.

[Hermie13]

Yes, the Cavs had a contract offer on the table for him. Seeing that he signed for the vet minimum with Miami, the Cavs offer was equal or greater. He chose to go for the ring.

Yeah he definitely chose going for a ring. Though the vet min he got from the Heat is actually more than the Cavs' Bird Rights/Contract Hold were for him. Wouldn't suprise me if the vet min is all he was being offered by the Cavs too who don't have the luxury of the MLE anymore.

[Upper Box Woodchuck]

Yes, the Cavs had a contract offer on the table for him. Seeing that he signed for the vet minimum with Miami, the Cavs offer was equal or greater. He chose to go for the ring.

Can't blame him.