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Valverde

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Valverde

Postby jellis » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:54 pm

Is apparently available now along with Wigginton. I am not a huge Wigginton fan, not sure if they even exist. He is to me a carroll where you trade the speed for power.

Now valverde could be nice. His WHIP and BAA both rose this year, but he did pitch in Houston. I think it would cost the Indians a Stevens or a Sipp so whats other peoples take on this

He is arb eligible and made 4.7 last year so would get a jump up this year. He is 29 so still a few years left in his arm.
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Re: Valverde

Postby JP_Frost » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:10 pm

I'm not really a big fan of Valverde. Maybe it's because of his outrageous celebrations after recording saves, but I have a feeling that he'll cost us alot. Frankly, with all the young bullpen arms in the high minors, I don't really see a reason why we should trade for an established closer (which Valverde sort of is, though it was just a couple of years ago that most people wrote him off). Sure it gives you a little more security, but guys like Meloan, Lewis, Stevens, Miller, Perez and Sipp could all potentially give you that. Either spend money on some reclamation project like Chad Cordero or buy low on a closer (like the Phillies did with Lidge). With the way Wedge is screaming for a closer though, I hope Shapiro doesn't just make a move to keep Wedge happy.
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Re: Valverde

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:23 am

I like Valverde a lot.....the one problem with him is he is in his final arbitration year and is a FA after the 2009 season. So this would likely be a one year solution, unless a multi-year deal could be worked out which is doubtful as he'll command $10M+ per for 3-4 years at least on the open market.
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Re: Valverde

Postby TheWord » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:59 am

Consigliere wrote:I like Valverde a lot.....the one problem with him is he is in his final arbitration year and is a FA after the 2009 season. So this would likely be a one year solution, unless a multi-year deal could be worked out which is doubtful as he'll command $10M+ per for 3-4 years at least on the open market.



Would a one year solution be such a bad thing with all the young guys we have in the pen?

Miller, Sipp, Meloan, Lewis, or Perez could establish themselves by then with their respective skill sets.

I don't necessarily think a one year solution is a bad thing, I just hope you wouldn't get baited into giving up to much for it.

I would throw some/a B level guys and maybe Sowers and see if we can get something worked out. If not now, maybe at midseason if the closer spot is still up.
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Re: Valverde

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:03 am

TheWord wrote:Would a one year solution be such a bad thing with all the young guys we have in the pen?

Miller, Sipp, Meloan, Lewis, or Perez could establish themselves by then with their respective skill sets.

I don't necessarily think a one year solution is a bad thing, I just hope you wouldn't get baited into giving up to much for it.

I would throw some/a B level guys and maybe Sowers and see if we can get something worked out. If not now, maybe at midseason if the closer spot is still up.


I agree. The crux of the issue is what we would have to give up for a one year rental.
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Re: Valverde

Postby jellis » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:35 am

I read that Wade wanted Ceda from the cubs. Now who knows if its true or not but I would say we would have to give up one of the 4 AAA relievers plus another player. hey if we get him and he walks next year its not bad I guarantee he would get an A rating and the Indians would recoup draft picks. I think if they took a pitcher from our group B it would have to be laffey no sure who else has a chance of surviving at the trop. Laffey + Stevens would get it done for sure I would think just a matter if that cost is cool
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Re: Valverde

Postby petes999 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:21 am

If we do something like this, we need to do it today or it will cost us more ....

I am all in favor of a 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 trade because if we trade a Laffey and Stevens for Valverde, we actually get a Lofgren, Head or Giminez back in return (freeing up a roster space to add before Rule 5).

Now do we trade Laffey and Stevens ... I rather do a 3 for 1 with lesser players.

I don't see us giving up Laffey for a closer. I see more options at closer next year if we stand still with Lewis getting first stab than Perez (factoring we now have Rundles to take Perez's lefty responsibility) and then Sipp, Miller, Stevens and Meloan all grooming for late inning roles. Yet, why give up Laffey when he is right in the mix for a 4th and 5th starter role. For 3 spots we only have Reyes, Laffey, Huff, Lewis and Sowers (5 people for 3 roles) why dwindle it to 4. Sorry, Jackson and Miller (already in pen) do not factor in even though I think Miller should (play him 1/2 year to watch innings before shutting him down when Westbrook gets back - just to give us another possible higher-quality starter than Jackson). So, why dwindle the list down to 4 starters for 3 slots? It is not like we are going to spend $14 million for Lowe, maybe less money for Penny.

I was hoping they would make a deal for someone ... yet they may be waiting because the price is too high and we are not out of options on what to do if we stand pat versus what we would have to give up.
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Re: Valverde

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:23 am

I actually like Wigginton as much as Valverde. He's like Blake, but with more power. 20+ HRs in each of the last 3 seasons is nothing to squak at. Shouldn't take a ton to get either as they are looking to dump payroll and he (like Valverde) is a free agent after 2009.

The Astros could use a catcher (unless they still feel Towles is it). Shoppach, Laffey, Stevens, and another prospect could land you Wigginton and Valverde. Tribe doesn't give up anything that would be starting at the ML level and fill 2 needs for about $12M. Still have some money to throw at a starter as well (plus we're saving around $2M from what Shoppach would make in arbitration plus the other salaries). So only really adding around $10M.
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Re: Valverde

Postby Duane Kuiper » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:15 pm

Wiggington, like Blake, is a below average defensive 3B.

TFB has Wiggington at 3B for the last 2 years as ranked 29th and 23rd. Blake ranked 25th and 24th.

Now many bad defensive players do you want in the IF?
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Re: Valverde

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:24 pm

Other than Roberts and Beltre, none of our options on the infield except Carroll and Marte are good defensively.


Wigginton is fine at 3B. With Blake there for much of the year we had an average defensive compared to the rest of the league. We'd be fine with Wig at 3B in 2009.


I'm all for good defense......but you can't limit yourself to only looking for good defensive IFers. Orlando Cabrera and Furcal are the only other two and they'll be in such high demand, I find it hard to believe we land either (though Cabrera would be possible I suppose)....
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Re: Valverde

Postby TheWord » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:34 pm

Wiggington is another guy whose home/road splits are pretty ugly.

Playing in the little league park in Houston certainly helps him.

I would rather just have Valverde and go get Orlando Hudson, but I guess I would have to settle for Wiggington.

Wiggington just isn't a player you want starting if you plan to be a championship caliber team.
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Re: Valverde

Postby jellis » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:02 pm

TheWord wrote:Wiggington is another guy whose home/road splits are pretty ugly.

Playing in the little league park in Houston certainly helps him.

I would rather just have Valverde and go get Orlando Hudson, but I guess I would have to settle for Wiggington.

Wiggington just isn't a player you want starting if you plan to be a championship caliber team.



Hudson decline in defense and asking price means we should just forget him
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Re: Valverde

Postby JP_Frost » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:10 pm

exactly, especially the number of years he's looking for.
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Re: Valverde

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:32 am

TheWord wrote:Wiggington is another guy whose home/road splits are pretty ugly.

Playing in the little league park in Houston certainly helps him.

I would rather just have Valverde and go get Orlando Hudson, but I guess I would have to settle for Wiggington.

Wiggington just isn't a player you want starting if you plan to be a championship caliber team.


Houston isn't that much of a hitters park. About average on park factor (which I'm really not a fan of though). He did get the benefit of being a righty there with the shorter LF and L-CF distances. The wall is still 19 feet though like Cleveland....and CF is much further than Cleveland. He'd see his power drop slightly probably, but nothing too drastic.

Wigginton is the type of player you want on a championship team. Versatile and shows pop.

Would I like to do better on the infield? Absolutely. But not a lot of options out there....
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Re: Valverde

Postby TheWord » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:47 pm

At this point I think Hudson has to be option number 1.
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Re: Valverde

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:34 pm

He may be.....but how many times do we get opiton number 1? He'll likely get a deal around 4yr/$42M at least. That'll practically make him the highest paid player on the team (second behind Hafner). He's not that great. I'd stay away if the biddign gets any higher than that.
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Re: Valverde

Postby jellis » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:30 pm

TheWord wrote:At this point I think Hudson has to be option number 1.


I dont think hes even an option to be honest too much money and a declining skill set
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Re: Valverde

Postby TheWord » Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:52 am

Declining skill set?

He has improved his numbers over the last 3 seasons.
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Re: Valverde

Postby jellis » Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:36 pm

TheWord wrote:Declining skill set?

He has improved his numbers over the last 3 seasons.



I meant defensively his range by all accounts has really taken some hits
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Re: Valverde

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:02 am

It's hard to say if he's not declining offensively since he gets hurt and misses playing time.

He's stayed about the same over the last 3 seasons offensively....but hasn't played 140 games in either of the last two due to injury. He's in his 30s already....not likely to get any better and with the injuries, I'd avoid him and go after something else that's cheaper or younger (or both).
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