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Fixing the Indians bullpen

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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby TheWord » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:55 pm

Don't sleep on Jensen Lewis.

Perez is a great guy to have, but the set up men are probably more important than the closer IMO. Perez has more value as a late inning reliever. The 9th inning is the most overrated inning, you have to get their first, and I would rather have Perez getting us there than Brian Shouse.

There is a reason you don't see too many left handed closers, they are much more valuable GETTING them to the 9th inning than actually closing it out. Perez is a can you WANT to go multiple innings, not someone who can sometimes do it as a closer.
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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:11 pm

I like Lewis.....but he's more of a setup guy than anything else. Yeah, he's been getting the job done, so I wouldn't be too worried going into next year with (way more confident than when we needed an upgrade over Mastny a few years ago).....but Perez should be back there.

You don't need guys going multiple innings if you've got a strong enough pen. Having Shouse, Lewis, Betancourt, Kobayashi, and possibly another addition you'll have the 6th, 7th, and 8th innings lined up for Perez to close out the 9th.

Even Sowers averaged 5.5 innings a start. Our starters aren't great (other than Lee), but they can eat innings. Perez is better when he's not going multiple innings all the time. Plus by only having to pitch one inning most nights he'll be fresher and have better command of his filthy stuff. I think that's part of the reasons he struggled more this year. He was kinda abusued by Wedge since he was the only lefty out there for most of the year. Even when Rundles was out there, Perez was still used a lot. Wedge just doesn't trust other people (he's not gonna change overnight). We could use another solid vet back there. Shouse, Marte, Affeldt, Beimel, or Ohman would be nice additions....heck, you could add Juan Cruz and Brian Shouse for half what it'd cost K-Rod (I know no one said get K-Rod though). Throw about $3M at Shouse or Marte and $3.5-4M at Cruz and our pen will be one of our strenths. We'd still have money to make a trade for a starter and grab an infielder.
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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby TheWord » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:28 pm

We're going to have to agree to disagree. Perez is so versatile he is the perfect fit for a set up man, you would be limiting his versatility by stuffing him in the very back end where he will only be used in the 9th.

Papelbon and Rivera are 2 inning closers because they are the best back end players in the game. Perez is not on that level, and you're taking a TON of versatility and options away when you don't use Perez in the role he has been in. They aren't going to throw multi-millions at middle relievers with shaky backgrounds...you should know that by now.

It's been proven time and time again that spending on the bullpen is nothing more than a crapshoot, if you're expecting them to change their philosophy now...don't hold your breath.
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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:18 am

um....we threw $4M at Borowksi, $3M at Hernandez, and $1.5M at Fultz in 2007.....and we were 1 win away from the WS. We also gave money to Foulke though he retired. Last year we gave Masa $3M.

Throwing $3-4M at veteran relievers is EXACTLY what Shapiro does. He'd be changing his philosophy by not doing it this winter.....
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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby jellis » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:17 pm

I still bet cruz gets 8 mil or more a year just based on his strike out rate
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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:29 pm

Linebrink didn't even get that last winter. He got a 4yr/$19M deal. That's closer to what Cruz will get but with the ecomony down, I bet he gets something closer to a 3yr/$14M deal with an option for a 4th.

Not way he gets $8M a year. That's closer money and Cruz has never closed.
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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby jellis » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:30 pm

SD pulled there offer on hoffman, I would not be surprised to see the Indians step up. I would not mind it yes he is diminishing but he still was solid last year and I think he could be a heck of a veteran presence in that pen
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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby jellis » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:32 pm

jellis wrote:I still bet cruz gets 8 mil or more a year just based on his strike out rate



just for the record he had the best K rate in baseball. With Fuentes bound for NYM, in my mind, and Krod landing some place like Mil I bet, they have money and wan to make a splash, I think a team like ANH might go crazy for Cruz
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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby TheWord » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:37 am

You really think Milwaukee would pony up the best offer for KRod?

I would have a hard time believing that.
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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby GhostofTedCox » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:42 am

jellis wrote:SD pulled there offer on hoffman, I would not be surprised to see the Indians step up. I would not mind it yes he is diminishing but he still was solid last year and I think he could be a heck of a veteran presence in that pen


Shapiro built a good relationship with Hoffman & his people the last time he was a FA in 2006. Hoffman still had 30 saves for a bad team last year. He could be just what the doctor ordered to tutor young arms in the bullpen. :s_yes
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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:46 am

No way does Anaheim pony up that much for Cruz. They'll just go with Arrenondo (butchered that name I know). They may look at him, but not for $8M. 4yr/$20 is the MAX he's gonna get.


I saw that about Hoffman and the Padres. I think he's the perfect guy to go after now. Same price as Gregg from Florida ($4Mish) but costs you zero players. Only would take a 1 year deal. We can then groom Sipp, Miller, or Meloan for the role in 2010. Hoffman, Perez, Lewis, Betancourt, Kobayahsi is a nice start to a pen (throw in Jackson, Meloan, Mujica, Mastny, Rundles, and possibly another signing like Shouse and it becomes a strength again like 2007).
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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby jellis » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:15 pm

I think you are the biggest shouse fan in the league

I think Mil will throw money out this year to make up for CC leaving along with sheets, and the pen is a big need
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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby GhostofTedCox » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:23 pm

Ken Rosenthal reports that the Indians are still interested in Huston Street. Only this time talking to O'Dowd and the Rockies. I like Street. But for now, I think Hoffman is a better fit for 1 year. He only costs money, not players.
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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:23 pm

Apparantly Solomon Torres has chosen to retire, so the Brew Crew should be even more in the market for relief pitching.
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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:34 pm

jellis wrote:I think you are the biggest shouse fan in the league

I think Mil will throw money out this year to make up for CC leaving along with sheets, and the pen is a big need


He was great against lefties. We need a guy like that....and I'm not convinced Rundles is it just yet. Damaso Marte would be another guy, but Shouse will likely be cheaper and only cost 1 year (with an option) at most.

I think Milwaukee will look at Fuentes more than Shouse though. They also have Luis Pena in the minors who they really like in the bullpen. Pitched in the Futures Game last year.
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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby TheWord » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:32 pm

Marte resigned with the Yankees for 3 years.
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Re: Fixing the Indians bullpen

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:00 am

Yeah saw that. Good move on their part, they need some bullpen help. Leaves shouse, Affeldt, Beimel, Ohman, and Darren Oliver.....
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