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BA Indians Draft Report

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BA Indians Draft Report

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:07 pm

Subscriber only content, but I paid for it, so I've got no problem posting it.

QUICK TAKE
Lonnie Chisenhall and Phelps could inject offense into the Tribe's infield. But the story of this draft was Cleveland's aggressiveness in signing Haley (whose $1.25 million bonus exceeded Chisenhall's $1.1 million), Putnam, Fedroff, House and Stowell.

POSITION PLAYERS


BEST PURE HITTER: SS Lonnie Chisenhall's (1) fluid swing and ability to make consistent line-drive contact made him one of the most attractive hitters in the 2008 draft. OF Tim Fedroff (7), who signed for $725,000, and 2B Cord Phelps (3) aren't far behind. >> BEST POWER HITTER: 1B Nate Recknagel (19) set a Michigan record with 23 homers in the spring but got just four pro at-bats after breaking the hamate bone in his left wrist during the NCAA playoffs. He might get a look at catcher in the future. 3B Jeremie Tice (6), who slammed 25 homers in his lone season at the College of Charleston, also has intriguing power. >> FASTEST RUNNER: OF Donnie Webb (10) has plus speed. >> BEST DEFENSIVE PLAYER: SS/2B Kevin Fontanez (24) is a pure defender with tremendous actions and a strong arm.


PITCHERS


BEST FASTBALL: RHP Carlos Moncrief (14) can hit 96 mph, while RHP Zach Putnam (5) can reach 95, and both should throw harder now that they're focusing on pitching after being two-way players in college. Putnam, who signed for $600,000, gets nasty sink on his two-seamer. RHPs Trey Haley (2), David Roberts (4) and Mike McGuire (43) all can touch 94 mph. >> BEST SECONDARY PITCH: LHP T.J. House (16) throws a power slurve in the mid-80s. He also has a low-90s fastball, and the combo earned him a $750,000 bonus. Moncrief's slider and Putnam's splitter are plus pitches at times.


ODDS AND ENDS


BEST PRO DEBUT: LHP Eric Berger (8) reached low Class A while going 2-0, 2.11 with a 45-11 K-BB ratio in 38 innings. He's regaining his stuff after Tommy John surgery in 2007, currently working at 89-91 mph and flashing a 12-to-6 curveball. >> BEST ATHLETE: Fedroff is more athletic than his 5-foot-11, 220-pound frame would indicate. He has the best combination of power and speed in Cleveland's draft, and he can play center field. >> MOST INTRIGUING BACKGROUND: 1B/3B Adam Abraham (13) played two seasons of major junior hockey before opting for baseball during the NHL lockout. >> CLOSEST TO THE MAJORS: Putnam projects better as a reliever and could reach Double-A in that role during his first full pro season. Phelps and Berger also will be on the fast track. >> BEST LATE-ROUND PICK: The Indians spent heavily to sign House and polished RHP Bryce Stowell (22), who got $725,000 after an all-star summer in the Cape Cod League. Among the less-costly players, athletic OF Tim Palinscar (40) and McGuire stick out. Plagued by injuries and inconsistency at Delaware, McGuire struck out 47 in 40 innings in his first taste of pro ball. >> THE ONE WHO GOT AWAY: Cleveland made a run at projectable RHPs Otto Roberts (23) and Michael Goodnight (27). Roberts decided to attend Creighton, while Goodnight headed to Houston.


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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby Duane Kuiper » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:28 pm

Has anyone in the Indians FO ever been quoted that the money they saved by trading Byrd allowed them to sign more draft choices? Or is it just fan speculation?
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:33 pm

If Chisenhall stays at SS I bet he'll move up quickly through the system as well...
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby gorman8621 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:13 pm

Thanks for posting daz
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby jellis » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:11 pm

is it fair to compare berger to scott lewis just seem very similar back rounds and even have the same 12-6 curve, also I know tice came from a small school but I feel liek the year he had at NYY pen makes me feel like he might be a little undervalued thanks to how deep the class look.

i still bet Putnam makes it first to the majors as a strong pen arm just in time to replace betancourt
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby indianinkslinger » Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:27 am

Great post daz, I really agree with most everything BA says except that Recknagel really has a long swing and I don't see him as a catcher. Abraham probably has better tools but he is not a ball of fire either. He was really hyped when i saw him but I was not impressed. Heard they might convert him to catcher which might be a good move.

Jellis, I know BA said it is a possiblility but I really do not see Putnam as a reliever. But that being said, you could well be right about him being first to the majors. Phelps is another player who is really polished but may not have Putnam's upside.

Haley's 2nd pitch, which is a nasty slider that he has trouble commanding, probably projects as good as House's if he gets his mechanics in order.
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby npc29 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:08 am

Duane Kuiper wrote:Has anyone in the Indians FO ever been quoted that the money they saved by trading Byrd allowed them to sign more draft choices? Or is it just fan speculation?


I've heard Shapiro mention that the Byrd money did help them in signing some of these guys, or something to that effect.

Great stuff. This draft class is looking real good. Lot's of potential
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:22 pm

A little tidbit from BA on Eric Berger.

What do you hear about Indians lefthander Eric Berger? Was he a good pick in the eighth round, and what level do you think he'll start at in 2009? It looks like he has regained his command after his Tommy John surgery, and he pitched well at the tail end of the college season and in his pro debut.

Paul Purvis
Roseville, Calif.


Berger first caught my eye when he pitched in the Cape Cod League in the summer of 2005, after his freshman season at Arizona. I ranked him the 13th-best prospect in the league, two spots behind Justin Masterson and two ahead of Tim Lincecum. Using a high arm slot, Berger drove his 90-93 mph fastball down in the strike zone and also spun a nice 12-to-6 curveball and flashed a nifty changeup.

At that point, Berger projected as a possible first-rounder for the 2007 draft. But he blew out his elbow after seven starts as a sophomore and needed to have it reconstructed. He redshirted and didn't pitch in 2007, though the Athletics drafted him in the ninth round anyway.

Berger opened this season in Arizona's bullpen but eventually reclaimed his spot in the rotation. He struck out 11 against Kentucky in a regional playoff clincher, and took the loss but pitched well against Miami in the super-regional finale. The Indians signed him for $125,000 and he has the chance to be a bargain.

He has gotten his command back, as Paul mentioned, posting a 45-11 K-BB ratio in 38 pro innings. Berger went 2-0, 2.11 and reached low Class A before the end of the summer. His stuff isn't all the way back yet, as his fastball currently sits at 89-91 mph and his curveball lacks some of its former power, but he should continue to get stronger as he puts more distance between himself and his surgery. The Indians aren't afraid to send college pitchers to high Class A in their first full pro seasons, so look for Berger to open 2009 at Kinston.


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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:31 pm

Good stuff.


Crazy to think how great our rotation would be now if we would have signed Lincecum when we drafted him (though very, very tough to get 40+ rounders to sign)....
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:04 am

From the BA chat

Q: Ross from CA asks:
Hey guys, love the draft grades every year. Was curious which Division as a whole had the best draft?

A: Jim Callis: Interesting question. I might have to go with the AL Central. We ranked the Royals and Twins among the top five drafts, the Indians weren't far behind, and the Tigers and White Sox added some interesting players.



http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/d ... 67133.html (subsciber only)

No specific questions about Indians draftees.
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby npc29 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:04 pm

That's great stuff on Berger.. just keep finding more and more about players in this draft, I like it.
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby dnosco » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:51 am

This draft has a lot of depth caused by spending a lot of money on a lot of 3rd-6th round talents who were drafted later in the draft. There is no downside to doing that. The issues I still have are:

Chisenhall was a solid pick as a baseball player...IF his off-the-field stuff is truly a one-time incident. Time will tell on this but that is always hanging out there which is why he was available in the first round. Take away his 'extras' and he was a first round talent. We will see how good a judge of character the Indians are.

Haley - He stands a good chance to be a waste of $1 million dollars. Not that we haven't done that in the past (Pesco, Sean Smith, etc.). The problem is that we did it in low rounds. Haley was probably a 4th round talent paid second round dollars when Tim Mehlville, the pre-season top prospect in the HS ranks, went to KC in the 4th round for not much more than Haley signed for.

Phelps - Until the last game he showed little power, when he hit his only 2 HRs of the year. Plus, while Baseball America is not always right or absolutely right, how good is this guy if he is only like the 70th best prospect in the state of California? Brandon Crawford of UCLA, a top defender and a top 20 pick candicate early this spring was still available and ended up signing for a reasonable sum. Phelps is not a GOOD defender, probably just average, has little power, no speed. That does not project to be anything special and, as a secondbaseman, unless he develops 20 HR power, not even a major leaguer unless he would hit .310 or so in the majors.

Roberts - 3rd reliever on his college team he pitched like a 15th round pick this year.

Fedroff - No speed, no power, just OK plate discipline. He will hit for average but how far can a guy with no speed and no power go? He will have to have GREAT defense, game changing defense and in center field only and he will have to be a perennial .300 BA, .390 OBP guy. While he looks good on paper as a 7th round pick he doesn't project to be a major leaguer in today's mold of major leaguers.

Berger is a GREAT selection: cheap with huge upside coming back from TJ surgery like he has.

Yeah, the depth is great but we overspent and made the wrong selections based on guys who were available. With the money the Indians spent we SHOULD have done much better.

You can't just judge a draft just based on the players taken. You have to judge it based on the results down the road AND the players available when we drafted at each slot. If you look at it that way we lost some HUGE opportunities to draft top talents who dropped to us and then overpaid for a number of guys who should have come cheaper based on their talent.

Here is my draft at the time. I stand by it as a much better draft than our draft AND we could have still drafted a number of guys (Stowell, House) and signed them.

Conor Gillaspie
Tim Melville
Brandon Crawford
Zach Putnam
Josh Satin
Eric Thames
Cody Overbeck
Andy Dirks
DJ Mitchell
Michael Stutes
Rob Musgrave
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby jellis » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:40 pm

got to argue on crawford all glove no stick guy is a util IF, and I dont know anyone who doesnt like Federoff. He has solid speed, and is a solid player in today baseball he should be a good player
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby dnosco » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:48 pm

jellis wrote:got to argue on crawford all glove no stick guy is a util IF, and I dont know anyone who doesnt like Federoff. He has solid speed, and is a solid player in today baseball he should be a good player


More than one report I have read says Fedroff has no power and, although speed has been mentioned with his name, if you don't steal in rookie ball you probably aren't very fast. He may play a great CF but if his only other real tool is OBP (without any significant SLG%), I can't imagine, except on a weak defensive team with a bunch of sluggers. He has to either steal or hit for power to be a MLer with those other tools.

Regarding Crawford, that's the rub. However, even as an average stick for a MIFer, due to his extra power for that position he was highly rated. No one was thinking Derek Jeter or ARod with him, just a solid ML shortstop...if he hits, which I think he will in the pros. And, hey, if the downside to the guy is a ML utility MIFer, that's worth the gamble as you are almost guaranteed SOME return on your money and a lot of return if he hits.
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby jellis » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:19 pm

dnosco wrote:
jellis wrote:got to argue on crawford all glove no stick guy is a util IF, and I dont know anyone who doesnt like Federoff. He has solid speed, and is a solid player in today baseball he should be a good player


More than one report I have read says Fedroff has no power and, although speed has been mentioned with his name, if you don't steal in rookie ball you probably aren't very fast. He may play a great CF but if his only other real tool is OBP (without any significant SLG%), I can't imagine, except on a weak defensive team with a bunch of sluggers. He has to either steal or hit for power to be a MLer with those other tools.

Regarding Crawford, that's the rub. However, even as an average stick for a MIFer, due to his extra power for that position he was highly rated. No one was thinking Derek Jeter or ARod with him, just a solid ML shortstop...if he hits, which I think he will in the pros. And, hey, if the downside to the guy is a ML utility MIFer, that's worth the gamble as you are almost guaranteed SOME return on your money and a lot of return if he hits.



I will give you anything would have been better than roberts, but I think I would rather have phelps then crawford. The hitting potential is greater and the guy is a solid 2B, I will take a good avg and little power at 2B. I wish we had taken Meville in round 2 its kind of dumb that we took the big risk reward guy with haley. Sure he could become a stud but its a 5-10% chance. I still feel like in round 7 Federoff is a great pick, I like him but that's just my review on his numbers, but I am huge OBP guy and would always take a guy with a OBP over 380
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby JP_Frost » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:19 pm

I was wondering if there's any chance that Chisenhall could handle 2nd base. His bat plays so much better there, and according to some reports, he was actually pretty decent at short. It would also put him on the fact track (though it's not really needed and 3rd base isn't exactly locked up either).

Speaking of 3rd basemen, what's the take on Jeremy Tice? He put up huge power numbers in college this year and handled himself pretty well in pro ball. Will he stick at 3rd, and will his power play at higher levels?
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby MadThinker88 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:24 pm

JP_Frost wrote:I was wondering if there's any chance that Chisenhall could handle 2nd base. His bat plays so much better there, and according to some reports, he was actually pretty decent at short. It would also put him on the fact track (though it's not really needed and 3rd base isn't exactly locked up either).


I thought Cord Phelps was getting the 2B fast track (to Kinston next season).
Can you comment on this Tony?
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby JP_Frost » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:37 pm

well that obviously seems to be the plan, but Chisenhall has more upside imo. Like I said, I'm not even sure if he'd be able to play second, however 2nd base seems to fit him better offensively than 3rd.
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:51 pm

I'd leave Chisenhall at SS. We're very thin there (Rodriguez seems to be moving to 2B.....so we've got Rivero and that's pretty much it in the minors it seems). Maybe down the line he'll move but if he's got the arm for SS, leave him there rather than move him to 2B this early.
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Re: BA Indians Draft Report

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:20 pm

Yeah, Phelps will be fasttracked at 2B, and is very likely to start in Kinston next year.

Chisenhall could really end up at any of 2B, SS, or 3B....though I think down the road he is at 3B or 2B. For now, he'll stay at SS or maybe go to 3B at Lake County next year.

And Tice could stick at 3B, though I have heard he could at some point go to 1B. Should be interesting to see how all this sorts out come this time next year. I am not sure where Tice will start next year, as a good case could be made for LC or Kinston. I'm leaning Kinston because no one at LC at 3B is worthy of going to Kinston.
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