LeBron appears to be gone

[theshow]

With the announcement of a Thursday press telecast that is NOT in Northeast Ohio, that will be given money to charity (probably Akron charity to soften the blow). Chris Bosh just had an excited tweet which seems to indicate Lebron is leaving Cleveland. Every sign seems to point that LeBron is leaving.

We were all Quitnesses! Its too bad they can't get some of the money back for the way Lebron just gave up and didn't play hard in game 5. I for one always knew Lebron was selfish, even when people tried to point out how unselfish he played on the basketball floor. I hope if he ever enters Ohio again he gets booed out, and I hope Akron disowns this fraud.

[criznit2009]

Whoa. Pretty harsh there consider Lebron is only 1 person and there are 4 other players out on floor at the same time. Seriously, I lived in Cleveland almost 5 years and it didn't even take me a month to realize how fair weather wish-washy 90% of the so called "fans" are. You and I were blessed with getting not only a HOMETOWN boy but one who is probably the best player since Jordan to play in Cleveland. The Cavs couldnt get it done and now that he wants to leave (still not official) every god damn "fan" wants to cut off his balls.

I guess Cleveland "fans" only have room in their heart for one losing team (Browns) and everyone else when struggling or "rebuilding" is nothing more than a bunch of heartless, greedy chumps.

Sorry there wasn't a championship, but really blaming it all on Lebron is about as selfish as it gets. Be glad he gave you what you did, cause personally I don't think Cleveland deserves him, with the amount of gutless, fair-weather fans who live there. The city has a shitty economy, culture, and obviously fanbase. Who is really to blame other than the people who live their lives there every single day.......
But hey at least were not detroit right?????

[Pork Chop Pough]

With the announcement of a Thursday press telecast that is NOT in Northeast Ohio...

If it was announced that it would be in Northeast Ohio, what would be the point of a big mystery press conference? He certainly wouldn't tell everyone that it will be in Cleveland/Akron, leading absolutely everyone to believe he's staying with the Cavs for a few days, and then announce he's going elsewhere. That would be the biggest PR disaster ever. It's been said the press conference won't be in any of the cities where he might sign. From what I've seen, the majority of non-Cleveland fans think that this press conference means he's staying in Cleveland, because having a nationally televised prime-time special, regardless of location, to announce he's screwing over the city of Cleveland and rubbing salt in the wounds would/will play badly everywhere but with the fan base he's going to. Most think he's PR savvy enough to be more low key if he's leaving town.

I'm not making any predictions though, and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. As long as the Cavs are Cleveland's best chance to finally end the city's ridiculously long championship drought, I'll certainly be emotionally invested, but the NBA is easily my least favorite of any pro/college team sport. If LeBron leaves, I'll be disappointed for Cleveland, but I can go back to ignoring the Cavs without it having too much of a negative impact on my life. If that's fair-weather, so be it.

[Hermie13]

Whoa. Pretty harsh there consider Lebron is only 1 person and there are 4 other players out on floor at the same time. Seriously, I lived in Cleveland almost 5 years and it didn't even take me a month to realize how fair weather wish-washy 90% of the so called "fans" are. You and I were blessed with getting not only a HOMETOWN boy but one who is probably the best player since Jordan to play in Cleveland. The Cavs couldnt get it done and now that he wants to leave (still not official) every god damn "fan" wants to cut off his balls.

I guess Cleveland "fans" only have room in their heart for one losing team (Browns) and everyone else when struggling or "rebuilding" is nothing more than a bunch of heartless, greedy chumps.

Sorry there wasn't a championship, but really blaming it all on Lebron is about as selfish as it gets. Be glad he gave you what you did, cause personally I don't think Cleveland deserves him, with the amount of gutless, fair-weather fans who live there. The city has a shitty economy, culture, and obviously fanbase. Who is really to blame other than the people who live their lives there every single day.......
But hey at least were not detroit right?????

I don't blame Lebron....but he IS to blame....maybe moreso than anyone else with the Cavs in the last few years.

If he wasn't so egotistical, he'd have just said 2 years ago that he was going to stay in Cleveland. Had he done that, the Cavs could have brought in a better player using their MLE the last year or so. Instead the better free agents in that range stayed away saying there was no point in going to Cleveland since they didn't know if Lebron was staying or not.


Lebron has only himself to blame for that. We could have had Ariza as our starting 2 this year....instead, we had Anthony "I'm not as good as my sister" Parker. Yeah, Ariza didn't have a great year, but he's a guy that needs a superstar (ie, Lebron or Kobe) to be super effective. He'd of obviously had that in Cleveland.

[TonyIBI]

He certainly wouldn't tell everyone that it will be in Cleveland/Akron, leading absolutely everyone to believe he's staying with the Cavs for a few days, and then announce he's going elsewhere. That would be the biggest PR disaster ever. It's been said the press conference won't be in any of the cities where he might sign. From what I've seen, the majority of non-Cleveland fans think that this press conference means he's staying in Cleveland, because having a nationally televised prime-time special, regardless of location, to announce he's screwing over the city of Cleveland and rubbing salt in the wounds would/will play badly everywhere but with the fan base he's going to. Most think he's PR savvy enough to be more low key if he's leaving town.

I'll play devils advocate.

What "news" would it really be to announce he is just staying in Cleveland? THAT would be more something you keep low key about.

But saying he is joining the Dream Team in Miami or going to New York? That's something that IS big time news, and worth having a primetime special about.

I think he is staying....but just sayin.

[A.Zajac]

To be honest, I don't think he's going anywhere. Nothing from LeBron himself has suggested otherwise. I highly doubt he ends up in NY; Dantoni doesn't play defense and same goes for Amar'e. I think that's out. Now that Bosh and Wade are going to MIA, that takes CHI out of the equation, IMO. So, it'd be down to CLE and MIA. And to be honest, I don't think LBJ wants to share the spotlight with two other guys. Plus, I don't think he'd stand up the city of Cleveland on national TV. My bet is on him staying.

[TonyIBI]

I think part of the problem is we as Cleveland fans are trying to rationalize this from an emtional standpoint as we have something invested in this. So, as a result, we will rationalize it in a way where we believe LeBron stays.

I am leaning toward him staying, but that said I find it hard to believe that this whole FA circus and all the hype HE made it out to be leading up to it and now with a TV special, that he ultimately just decides to stay in Cleveland? Great for Cleveland, but for the rest of the world talk about a HUGE letdown with this story and the hype surrounding it. Which is why I think there is a LEGIT chance he goes elsewhere.

[A.Zajac]

I think the only legit shot he has of going somewhere is Miami. That said though, I think there's a very real chance he does leave. And if so, you can kiss the Cleveland economy good-bye. But, I still believe he ends up in Cleveland. But, it's also going to take GM Chris Grant to do some maneuvering in these next 24-48 hours.

[TonyIBI]

I think the only legit shot he has of going somewhere is Miami. That said though, I think there's a very real chance he does leave. And if so, you can kiss the Cleveland economy good-bye. But, I still believe he ends up in Cleveland. But, it's also going to take GM Chris Grant to do some maneuvering in these next 24-48 hours.

Why not the Knicks or Bulls?

Also, just thinking out loud, I think the loss of Bosh in the sign and trade deal the Cavs were working out with LeBron trying to get Bosh to go there could actually be what makes LeBron realize he can't get the players or team needed to win here.

[A.Zajac]

I think the only legit shot he has of going somewhere is Miami. That said though, I think there's a very real chance he does leave. And if so, you can kiss the Cleveland economy good-bye. But, I still believe he ends up in Cleveland. But, it's also going to take GM Chris Grant to do some maneuvering in these next 24-48 hours.

Why not the Knicks or Bulls?

Also, just thinking out loud, I think the loss of Bosh in the sign and trade deal the Cavs were working out with LeBron trying to get Bosh to go there could actually be what makes LeBron realize he can't get the players or team needed to win here.

As I said with the Knicks, it's just not a good fit for LeBron and what he wants. Dantoni and the team value no defense. What's LeBron been about the past few years? Defense. The addition of Amar'e further proves that.. no defense. The system just doesn't fit LBJ.

The Bulls still possible, but I think the perfect scenario for LBJ was going to CHI with Bosh, and that's not happening now. Plus, there's a real lack of shooters on Chicago (sounds familiar, doesn't it?).

I still think Cleveland can land a Mike Miller, Al Jefferson, Al Harrington, or a David Lee. We'll see.

[Hermie13]

I think the only legit shot he has of going somewhere is Miami. That said though, I think there's a very real chance he does leave. And if so, you can kiss the Cleveland economy good-bye. But, I still believe he ends up in Cleveland. But, it's also going to take GM Chris Grant to do some maneuvering in these next 24-48 hours.

Fully believe Lebron has already made up his mind one way or another. Don't think anything Grant does in the next 36 hours or so is going to change anything. Doubt Lebron set up a 1 hour TV special to utter one sentence ("I've decided to sign with....") without knowing 100% where he's going to sign. But we'll see....maybe I'm being too optimistic lol


And while it will hurt to see Lebron leaving....kissing the Cleveland economy goodbye is a bit extreme. While Lebron does bring in millions, it won't totally destroy the economy unless you believe that the people that come downtown and spend during the 300 days that Lebron isn't playing basketball in Cleveland will also stop coming. Which I don't buy.

[dnosco]

Look, this team is in disarray. We just went through a draft without the Cavaliers having ANY selections and I don't think we have had a lottery selection SINCE LeBron. While we may all choose to blame or hold blameless LeBron for the recent playoff loss, the fact is, we are lost without a guy who is, along with Kobe and Jordan, three of the more dominant players in NBA history.

Personally, I think he goes elsewhere. It is the fate of being a Cleveland fan just like CC wearing the Yankees hat and ending up there. Except that LeBron will end up, IMHO, in Miami.

This team will go from playoff favorites to last place faster than you can say "Quicken Arena". And, the worst part: There is no future in this team. It would take a Phil Jackson to turn this bunch of semi-talented individuals into a winner. Certainly could be done but only 1% of the coaches in the world could do it.

Best thing for the Cavs to do is not re-sign any of their FAs unless they do a sign and trade for younger guys, trade the rest of the veterans, get a bunch of picks and put a team of CBA guys on the floor for two years until the young talent starts to come of age and then hire a dynamite coach who can take individuals and mold them together into a team. Know it won't happen but that's what should happen: Tear it all down and rebuild it...if LeBron leaves.

[theshow]

Whoa. Pretty harsh there consider Lebron is only 1 person and there are 4 other players out on floor at the same time. Seriously, I lived in Cleveland almost 5 years and it didn't even take me a month to realize how fair weather wish-washy 90% of the so called "fans" are. You and I were blessed with getting not only a HOMETOWN boy but one who is probably the best player since Jordan to play in Cleveland. The Cavs couldnt get it done and now that he wants to leave (still not official) every god damn "fan" wants to cut off his balls.

I guess Cleveland "fans" only have room in their heart for one losing team (Browns) and everyone else when struggling or "rebuilding" is nothing more than a bunch of heartless, greedy chumps.

Sorry there wasn't a championship, but really blaming it all on Lebron is about as selfish as it gets. Be glad he gave you what you did, cause personally I don't think Cleveland deserves him, with the amount of gutless, fair-weather fans who live there. The city has a shitty economy, culture, and obviously fanbase. Who is really to blame other than the people who live their lives there every single day.......
But hey at least were not detroit right?????

Yes Cleveland fans are fairweather, but don't you dare group me into that. I watch and show up on this messageboard almost every day to support a 33-50 baseball team. I never call the Dolans cheap like most of these uninformed, spoiled fans, I always just hope that the front office will start to "get it," particularly in the way that they draft and with the money they put into the draft. I have watched every miserable Browns game since 1999. I actually have paid the least attention to the Cavs the last 7 years, because I think that organization is unjustly pompous about 1 lucky ping pong ball.

If you think about it, it has actually taken more incredible skill for the Cavs not to win it all. I think Mark Shapiro is a far better GM in his respective sport than John Paxson/Danny Ferry. Had Paxson not been stupid and let Carlos Boozer out of his contract, we would have a championship by now. Had Danny Ferry signed ANYONE but Larry Hughes, we would have a championship by now. Lebron James is by far the best player to ever play the game, I don't care what anyone says. Shaquille O'Neill was better than Kobe during the Lakers Championships, and Gasol, Odom, Artest et all are totally loaded now (Just cuz Kobe has Championships he is not better). Scottie Pippen is one of the greatest to ever play the game, I don't care what anyone says, and the NBA was not as good when Jordan played. The Cavs are an embarrassment for having the best player to ever play the game and not win.

However, last year it is not selfish to blame Lebron. If you have an elbow injury and can't go--don't play. But don't pout and quit on the court just because Delonte West banged your mom, or whatever his problem was. HE QUIT! How can you forgive a quitter? Something was wrong, and everyday I hope that Lebron will just tell the truth about what happened in game 5. Instead I have to watch college dropout Maverick Carter play deal broker, and listen to Larry King ask Lebron what he thinks of Lady Gaga.

WHY DID YOU QUIT LEBRON?!?!? JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION HONESTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The drive
The fumble
The shot
Edgar Renteria
The quit

the list just grows longer.

[Hermie13]

Unless you don't believe the rumors coming out of Miami......I'd say it's an extreme longshot to see Lebron there.


Bosh is reportedly not doing a sign-n-trade and the Heat don't want him to. Both he and Wade are doing max deals.

That measn either Lebron and his massive ego takes less than a max deal or gets a sign and trade. I will be the starting center for the Cavs before Gilbert agrees to trade away Lebron. So unless Lebron is prepared to give up around $50M to play in Miami......it's looking like Cleveland, Chicago, or NY....with Cleveland the best basketball/family fit.


Still suprised that Bosh is leaving $30M on the table......

[Hermie13]

I actually have paid the least attention to the Cavs the last 7 years, because I think that organization is unjustly pompous about 1 lucky ping pong ball.

ha, lucky ping pong ball? Or just another NBA fix job?

[TonyIBI]

I can't help but keep asking if he WAS resigning, why delay the inevitable like this? And now supposedly the announcement will be in Greenich, CT and not in Cleveland or Akron? I dunno. Even if he stays, I have lost a TON of respect for him.

[TonyIBI]

Oh joy. Greenich is basically a NYC suberb, about 25 mins from Manhattan. Also, Jay-Z and Beyonce supposedly have a house there. Allan Houston too. The plot thickens.

I still wonder how in the hell he builds all this hype and chooses to stay in Cleveland. Would be like Al Capone's vault all over again.

[dnosco]

You know, a different spin on this. Sports junkies are so hungry for news, sports fantasy junkies are so hungry for news, and sports media are so hungry for a news story that can make them famous that I could see LeBron milking all of this to get money for charity. So, why put it off? Why the suspense? Because it brings in dollars from these people, sucking money out of them that they foolishly spend on this 'news'. LeBron laughing at these people who put this on par with an end to world hunger and, without actually laughing out loud, taking their money for the honor of hearing him speak. Sort of like the Robin Hood of basketball. Robbing from the rich and giving to charity. Really pretty funny, if you are LeBron.

[A.Zajac]

Oh joy. Greenich is basically a NYC suberb, about 25 mins from Manhattan. Also, Jay-Z and Beyonce supposedly have a house there. Allan Houston too. The plot thickens.

I still wonder how in the hell he builds all this hype and chooses to stay in Cleveland. Would be like Al Capone's vault all over again.

Per Brian Windhurst, Cavs PD: "FWIW, I have been told several times location is not indication of decision. But this whole thing is shades of gray."

[Hermie13]

Oh joy. Greenich is basically a NYC suberb, about 25 mins from Manhattan. Also, Jay-Z and Beyonce supposedly have a house there. Allan Houston too. The plot thickens.

I still wonder how in the hell he builds all this hype and chooses to stay in Cleveland. Would be like Al Capone's vault all over again.

ha, if he even goes to the Nets I'll just laugh. He has no justification for it other than money/endorsements. Makes zero basketball sense, which is what he said was most important. Wanted to win....won't happen in NJ/Brooklyn.

He may be the best player in the NBA but even Kobe couldn't win til in LA when they had little talent around him. Harris is overrated. Lopez is nice. Maybe they steal Lee or Boozer....but they won't even win that division let alone a championship.

[Hermie13]

I can't help but keep asking if he WAS resigning, why delay the inevitable like this? And now supposedly the announcement will be in Greenich, CT and not in Cleveland or Akron? I dunno. Even if he stays, I have lost a TON of respect for him.

I agree on the last part....though lost most of my respect for him when he wore the Yanks hat to the Yanks/Indians playoff game.


I tend to agree though with Windhurst here. Don't think the location means anything.


And someone elsewhere brought up a nice point.....why hold a 1 hour press conference if you're leaving the Cavs?

I mean, it'll be a slap in the face if he leaves.....holding a 1 hour in your face marathon is just low....


If you are Lebron and you're going to leave for a market such as NY, Chicago, or Miami, you don't need to show yourself off for 1 hour. Simply state you're going to one of the those places and you'll get plenty of pub.


Just doesn't make a ton of sense unless you're planning on staying in Cleveland....

[A.Zajac]

Boozer to CHI improves their odds....

[A.Zajac]

I think the only legit shot he has of going somewhere is Miami. That said though, I think there's a very real chance he does leave. And if so, you can kiss the Cleveland economy good-bye. But, I still believe he ends up in Cleveland. But, it's also going to take GM Chris Grant to do some maneuvering in these next 24-48 hours.

Fully believe Lebron has already made up his mind one way or another. Don't think anything Grant does in the next 36 hours or so is going to change anything. Doubt Lebron set up a 1 hour TV special to utter one sentence ("I've decided to sign with....") without knowing 100% where he's going to sign. But we'll see....maybe I'm being too optimistic lol


And while it will hurt to see Lebron leaving....kissing the Cleveland economy goodbye is a bit extreme. While Lebron does bring in millions, it won't totally destroy the economy unless you believe that the people that come downtown and spend during the 300 days that Lebron isn't playing basketball in Cleveland will also stop coming. Which I don't buy.

FYI: LeBron brings $48 million to business in Cleveland/Northeast Ohio. Without him, the Cavs are projected to lose $100 million in value and also NE Ohio hundreds of thousands in taxes, per the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

[Hermie13]

FYI: LeBron brings $48 million to business in Cleveland/Northeast Ohio. Without him, the Cavs are projected to lose $100 million in value and also NE Ohio hundreds of thousands in taxes, per the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

$48M over the course of a season. That is strictly what they'd lose on Cavs games...or 41 regular season days (plus playoffs) a year.

The other 300+ days the city really won't miss a beat. It will hurt a lot, but some fans seem to think people only go to Cleveland to watch Cavs games. Not even close to true.


The team loses $100M is kind of irrelevant. That's what Gilbert stands to lose (per the article you were referencing)....Gilbert lives in Detroit.....


Plus I'd be shocked if there's even a basketball team in Cleveland in 10 years if Lebron leaves. So the value of the team is pretty meaningless in that regard.



Also, they actually interviewed some restaurant/bar owners and they estimated the number to be closer to only $10M lost if Lebron leaves. So we'll see.

Definitely will be a big, big blow....but no economic armageddon.


Now if the Cleveland Clinic went under......

[TonyIBI]

He shoots, he scores! Wojo ABSOLUTELY NAILS IT with this piece:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... sion070710

[Hermie13]

Boozer to CHI improves their odds....

hmm...maybe. Though after Boozer left Cleveland, not sure that helps or hurts Chicago's chances....

It's not crazy to suggest if Boozer would have stayed, we'd have won the 2007 NBA chapionship....I'm betting Lebron remembers that.

[Hermie13]

He shoots, he scores! Wojo ABSOLUTELY NAILS IT with this piece:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... sion070710

For real.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall and see the reactions of a guy like Lebron when he reads an article like that.

[TonyIBI]

From Twitter...

@ABAOSTO Eric Mansfield reporting Summit Co. processed request to change address on tax bill for LBJ's home from LLC in Cleveland to Chicago

[Upper Box Woodchuck]

I really think that Cleveland is in over it's head in the NBA and that Dan Gilbert knows it. Why do you think he's pouring all this money into borderline-NHL level game presentation for a AAA hockey club (Monsters)? he knows where the NBA is headed and knows that he needs to bring the NHL to Cleveland to justify his investment in the Q Arena long term.

The NBA is well on its way to becoming the Formula 1 of the stick-and-ball sports world. A high-end style-over-substance league where only 8 to 12 US cities are wealthy and glamorous enough to make a go of it. The NBA will stay at 30 teams by going global (Shanghai, London, Barcelona, Paris, Rio, etc.).

I sincerely hope that I am 100% wrong in the aforementioned assessment, but I fear greatly that I am not.

[Hermie13]

I really think that Cleveland is in over it's head in the NBA and that Dan Gilbert knows it. Why do you think he's pouring all this money into borderline-NHL level game presentation for a AAA hockey club (Monsters)? he knows where the NBA is headed and knows that he needs to bring the NHL to Cleveland to justify his investment in the Q Arena long term.

The NBA is well on its way to becoming the Formula 1 of the stick-and-ball sports world. A high-end style-over-substance league where only 8 to 12 US cities are wealthy and glamorous enough to make a go of it. The NBA will stay at 30 teams by going global (Shanghai, London, Barcelona, Paris, Rio, etc.).

I sincerely hope that I am 100% wrong in the aforementioned assessment, but I fear greatly that I am not.

You are here. First off, Gilbert only pays like 5 of those players. The rest are all owned by the Avalanche so he doesn't lose any money here.

And there is no way he's trying to bring an NHL team to Cleveland.


Rio? For baskeball? Shanghai?

It's not possible to have a league like that.

Seasons would take 2 years to complete. I mean, the Cavs and Celtics didn't even change cities and took THREE DAYS OFF. You'd have to "rest" guys for a week after a trip to Rio or even worse (time zones) China.


NBA will remain in America mostly. They tried Canada and already lost 1 team and the Raptors are just "meh".


I do agree Cleveland is in over it's head with basketball.....that is if Lebron leaves of course. If it weren't for that ping pong ball the Cavs would be in another city already. We really should be like SD or Cincy and be a 2-sport city. Browns will always be supported. Indians and the no-salary cap MLB will be able to do fine too then.


Of course still nice having the Cavs and will support them. If they keep Lebron they will be alright.

[Hermie13]

Sounds like Stan Van Gundy thinks he's staying in Cleveland, lol

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Stan-Van-Gundy-says-what-we-re-all-thinking;_ylt=Agc4ZZ1jmQJC_dvPn4MzSoK8vLYF?urn=nba,254359

[A.Zajac]

So many different things out there right now, to be honest, I'm not sure you can read much into any of it.

[petes999]

I don't think that it is a slam dunk to Miami. If it was, why wouldn't Lebron announce his decision with Wade and Bosh. Supposedly, he leaked the Wade and Bosh news. And, then to announce in Conn. without them? That isn't how this team-up amongst the starts was suppose to work.

Then he goes to NY and has dinner with Amare? I think a lot of this is a drive to get the ratings up. What would the ratings be if it was known he would go back to Cleveland? None ... end of story. All the rumors so far are noted with maybe ... or if he doesn't change his mind. I think it is all a plan news media blitz.

Also, I don't think a three-star team will do NBA much good. It would be like NY playing Cleveland, KC, Seattle and Baltimore every night. I do think they will struggle this year. But, once you trade Beasley into a PG or Center and wait for Butler to develop, you can get a good 7-man rotation that will beat everybody. Having a Bird-McHale and Magic-Kareem or Jordan-Pippen and Shaq-Kobe developed strong teams but not dominate teams that look like they are playing Harlem Globetrotters type of ball (100 to 20 games). Why would anyone out of Miami or LA be interested in watching? It would be like US Olympics with the first dream team without the patriotic drive to watch a blow-out every night.

But, in the end it is LeBron's call .... So he may want to play with his buddy's to get the ring so he isn't known as the star no one wanted to come to Cleveland to play with. But, if he was smart, he would do everything to get Chris Paul here next year ... even if it meant having Paul be his "advisor" to get him the millions he needs to compete with a max contract that we can't give him. (So Paul gets x% of LeBron's salary for a meaning lesstitle in addition to whatever we can give him like MLE to get him to $17 mill and LeBron gets more in endorsements for winning a title in Cleveland to offset him paying Paul because the Cavs can't - everyone wins).

[JP_Frost]

I was watching the Reggie Miller vs Knicks documentary yesterday (the ESPN 30 for 30 one), and it reminded me how incredibly awesome the NBA used to be. There were more star players sticking with their team, none of the gangster attitudes, and many more personailities. I still follow the NBA a bit, because I really enjoy basketball, but it's just not the same anymore. This whole LeBron episode is evidence of that. Obviously he himself is to blame for this circus, but also the media. We all know how ESPN acts when it involves the Yankees and Red Sox, well they're completely the same when it comes to LeBron.

That said, it is an exciting summer with all these top free agents, and hopefully the Bulls can add a SG (I was hoping they'd go after Johnson and Boozer).

[endlesssleeper]

I was watching the Reggie Miller vs Knicks documentary yesterday (the ESPN 30 for 30 one), and it reminded me how incredibly awesome the NBA used to be. There were more star players sticking with their team, none of the gangster attitudes, and many more personailities. I still follow the NBA a bit, because I really enjoy basketball, but it's just not the same anymore. This whole LeBron episode is evidence of that. Obviously he himself is to blame for this circus, but also the media. We all know how ESPN acts when it involves the Yankees and Red Sox, well they're completely the same when it comes to LeBron.

That said, it is an exciting summer with all these top free agents, and hopefully the Bulls can add a SG (I was hoping they'd go after Johnson and Boozer).

For sure. 90's NBA can't be beat.

[A.Zajac]

Tell ya what, a lot of people already ripping LeBron and to be honest, I have to laugh and enjoy it.

[Hermie13]

I was watching the Reggie Miller vs Knicks documentary yesterday (the ESPN 30 for 30 one), and it reminded me how incredibly awesome the NBA used to be. There were more star players sticking with their team, none of the gangster attitudes, and many more personailities. I still follow the NBA a bit, because I really enjoy basketball, but it's just not the same anymore. This whole LeBron episode is evidence of that. Obviously he himself is to blame for this circus, but also the media. We all know how ESPN acts when it involves the Yankees and Red Sox, well they're completely the same when it comes to LeBron.

That said, it is an exciting summer with all these top free agents, and hopefully the Bulls can add a SG (I was hoping they'd go after Johnson and Boozer).

For sure. 90's NBA can't be beat.

meh. Jordan killed the NBA. Or at least started it's downfall from a legit sport.

Now 80s basketball? That was the last time it was a real sport. Once Stern realized how big Jordan could be the NBA went to hell.

Ever since the 1998 Utah-Bulls series, I'm convinced 90% of playoff series are predetermined before they're played. It's almost like watching wrestling

[Upper Box Woodchuck]

With all of the talk about the Cavs going under sans LeBron, i have a few questions:

- How long would the Cavs have to rebuild after losing LeBron before they would be done?

- If the Cavs contended with a different superstar (lottery pick) or with more of an ensemble setup (think Pistons of the 2000s, could the Cavs still work in Cleveland or is it all about LeBron to the point that winning without him doesn't even matter?

- If the above is yes, even if LeBron finishes his career here, could the team survive his retirement?

MY TAKE:

- Two years max

- Yes, but its moot as the team would run out of $ before they could complete a rebuild.

- Since above is yes, I think they could survive LeBron retiring (I think the team would get a couple more years from fans to complete a rebuild if this instance occurred).

[A.Zajac]

With all of the talk about the Cavs going under sans LeBron, i have a few questions:

- How long would the Cavs have to rebuild after losing LeBron before they would be done?

- If the Cavs contended with a different superstar (lottery pick) or with more of an ensemble setup (think Pistons of the 2000s, could the Cavs still work in Cleveland or is it all about LeBron to the point that winning without him doesn't even matter?

- If the above is yes, even if LeBron finishes his career here, could the team survive his retirement?

MY TAKE:

- Two years max

- Yes, but its moot as the team would run out of $ before they could complete a rebuild.

- Since above is yes, I think they could survive LeBron retiring (I think the team would get a couple more years from fans to complete a rebuild if this instance occurred).

I think we're looking at 3-4 years of a rebuild.

[A.Zajac]

Worth noting a lot in LBJ's camp INCLUDING Chris Paul are advising LBJ AGAINST going to Miami.

[TonyIBI]

If LeBron leaves, the Cavs are done. Period. They cannot and never will attract a free agent, no matter how much money their owner has. NBA players simply do not want to come to Cleveland. It's ALWAYS been an issue. LeBron was the one thing that interested some guys into coming here.

Cavs will need to tank for 2-3 years and have to hit on several lottery picks to become anything interesting. They can "get by" with what they have now and be a 6-8 seed, but what is the point of that? They can also make some bandaid moves and add some interesting players in a trade. But, nothing will be able to replace the gaping hole left by LeBron.

[Hermie13]

If LeBron leaves, the Cavs are done. Period. They cannot and never will attract a free agent, no matter how much money their owner has. NBA players simply do not want to come to Cleveland. It's ALWAYS been an issue. LeBron was the one thing that interested some guys into coming here.

Cavs will need to tank for 2-3 years and have to hit on several lottery picks to become anything interesting. They can "get by" with what they have now and be a 6-8 seed, but what is the point of that? They can also make some bandaid moves and add some interesting players in a trade. But, nothing will be able to replace the gaping hole left by LeBron.

Agree completely here. I still think we make the playoffs this year (wont even need a .500 record to do that though), but we'll be nothing special ever again.


Even some national sports writers agree that the Cavs have a very good chance of leaving Cleveland in 5 years if Lebron leaves. They'll instantly go back to being the 3rd most popular team in the city. The lockout in 2011-2012 won't help matters either. Only thing that could save the Cavs is the original 30 year lease that Gund signed with Gateway. Gilbert doesn't own the Q, Gateway entertainment or whatever it's called does. Not sure if the lease is still in effect after Gilbert bought (though would assume it is). Though even with that lease, if Gilbert was enticed I'm sure he could find a way to move the team. Stern would help out as he cares very little for the product on the court, just the almighty dollar.



ha, some sports guy made a comment that I found pretty funny......is Larry Dolan secretly funding his brother and other teams to lure Lebron away? lol

[Upper Box Woodchuck]

With all of the talk about the Cavs going under sans LeBron, i have a few questions:

- How long would the Cavs have to rebuild after losing LeBron before they would be done?

- If the Cavs contended with a different superstar (lottery pick) or with more of an ensemble setup (think Pistons of the 2000s, could the Cavs still work in Cleveland or is it all about LeBron to the point that winning without him doesn't even matter?

- If the above is yes, even if LeBron finishes his career here, could the team survive his retirement?

MY TAKE:

- Two years max

- Yes, but its moot as the team would run out of $ before they could complete a rebuild.

- Since above is yes, I think they could survive LeBron retiring (I think the team would get a couple more years from fans to complete a rebuild if this instance occurred).

I think we're looking at 3-4 years of a rebuild.

My concern is whether the team could make it three to four years.

To Tony's point: This is why I feel that Cleveland is in over it's head in the NBA. the NBA is about glamour and image to an extent that no other major sport is (hence my earlier F1 comparison). Therefore, it puts Cleveland at a disadvantage even if they offer a player more money because a): Cleveland's image is sufficently unglamorous as to affect their endorsement deals and b): many NBA players are willing to take less money to play in a more glamorous locale (see Bosh, Chris). To me, the futility of the Cavaliers is that they are in a semi-capped league, have ownership with deep pockets and little, if any, fear of tapping them to improve the team, and they are in no better situation than the Tribe, who are in a deeply messed-up sport, economically and competitively speaking.

I'm getting sick of this. Seriously, bring on the NHL. People say it can't work here, but if the Cavs go and there's no major league sports here in Cleveland in February and March (and January when the Browns miss the playoffs), I think the interest and discretionary dollars would be there.

[Hermie13]

My concern is whether the team could make it three to four years.

To Tony's point: This is why I feel that Cleveland is in over it's head in the NBA. the NBA is about glamour and image to an extent that no other major sport is (hence my earlier F1 comparison). Therefore, it puts Cleveland at a disadvantage even if they offer a player more money because a): Cleveland's image is sufficently unglamorous as to affect their endorsement deals and b): many NBA players are willing to take less money to play in a more glamorous locale (see Bosh, Chris). To me, the futility of the Cavaliers is that they are in a semi-capped league, have ownership with deep pockets and little, if any, fear of tapping them to improve the team, and they are in no better situation than the Tribe, who are in a deeply messed-up sport, economically and competitively speaking.

I'm getting sick of this. Seriously, bring on the NHL. People say it can't work here, but if the Cavs go and there's no major league sports here in Cleveland in February and March (and January when the Browns miss the playoffs), I think the interest and discretionary dollars would be there.

Disagree 100% here. Other than the NFL with their non-guranteed contracts, the MLB system is much less messed up than the NBAs.


I agree about the NBA being a glamour sport though. I've said many times elsewhere, but the NBA needs to contract by 8-10 teams. A sport/league such as basketball and the NBA just can't support 30 teams like baseball and football (32) can.

There's been what 10 moves in the last 20 years? Yet the NBA in their infinite wisdom still sees it necessary to Expand?! That makes no sense. Don't expand when so many franchises need to relocate just to survive.

There are some pretty easy teams to ax. Bucks (most are Bulls fans anyways), OKC (anyone actually see that workign longterm?), New Orleans, Cleveand (if Lebron leaves), Charlotte, Washington, Toronto (though they'll want some presence in Canada), Memphis, and even the Pistons (talks of moving already).



And for the record, Cleveland had an NHL team.....the lost them very, very quick. Hockey won't work in Cleveland (another sport that needs to ax 10 teams at least).


And I'm as optimistic about the Cleveland economy as anyone....but no one will spend on hockey and the money won't be there. When cities like Portland only have 1 major sports team (with Nike and Adidas nearby) and San Diego only has 2 major sports teams.....you honestly believe Cleveland could support a 4th?!

And it's a moot point. No way does the NHL put a team in Cleveland with the Blue Jackets in c-bus. Yeah, could move them to Cleveland, but despite the lack of support.....it won't get better in Cleveland.

[Upper Box Woodchuck]

My concern is whether the team could make it three to four years.

To Tony's point: This is why I feel that Cleveland is in over it's head in the NBA. the NBA is about glamour and image to an extent that no other major sport is (hence my earlier F1 comparison). Therefore, it puts Cleveland at a disadvantage even if they offer a player more money because a): Cleveland's image is sufficently unglamorous as to affect their endorsement deals and b): many NBA players are willing to take less money to play in a more glamorous locale (see Bosh, Chris). To me, the futility of the Cavaliers is that they are in a semi-capped league, have ownership with deep pockets and little, if any, fear of tapping them to improve the team, and they are in no better situation than the Tribe, who are in a deeply messed-up sport, economically and competitively speaking.

I'm getting sick of this. Seriously, bring on the NHL. People say it can't work here, but if the Cavs go and there's no major league sports here in Cleveland in February and March (and January when the Browns miss the playoffs), I think the interest and discretionary dollars would be there.

Disagree 100% here. Other than the NFL with their non-guranteed contracts, the MLB system is much less messed up than the NBAs.


I agree about the NBA being a glamour sport though. I've said many times elsewhere, but the NBA needs to contract by 8-10 teams. A sport/league such as basketball and the NBA just can't support 30 teams like baseball and football (32) can.

There's been what 10 moves in the last 20 years? Yet the NBA in their infinite wisdom still sees it necessary to Expand?! That makes no sense. Don't expand when so many franchises need to relocate just to survive.

There are some pretty easy teams to ax. Bucks (most are Bulls fans anyways), OKC (anyone actually see that workign longterm?), New Orleans, Cleveand (if Lebron leaves), Charlotte, Washington, Toronto (though they'll want some presence in Canada), Memphis, and even the Pistons (talks of moving already).



And for the record, Cleveland had an NHL team.....the lost them very, very quick. Hockey won't work in Cleveland (another sport that needs to ax 10 teams at least).


And I'm as optimistic about the Cleveland economy as anyone....but no one will spend on hockey and the money won't be there. When cities like Portland only have 1 major sports team (with Nike and Adidas nearby) and San Diego only has 2 major sports teams.....you honestly believe Cleveland could support a 4th?!

And it's a moot point. No way does the NHL put a team in Cleveland with the Blue Jackets in c-bus. Yeah, could move them to Cleveland, but despite the lack of support.....it won't get better in Cleveland.

One minor clarification to my earlier point: I was referring to the NHL as a 3rd team (replacing the Cavs).

Given that you think that both the NHL and NBA can't work here was building Gund Arena (now the Q) a mistake (especially when the additional sin tax dollars could have gone toward building a new football stadium before the original Browns left)? I ask this because the thought has come to my mind in the last couple of days? Granted, Mayor White may have blocked Jacobs Field funding over the lack of an Arena (he had made comments to the effect), but if it had been replaced with a plan for a new Browns stadium, it's doubtful his bluff would've held.

[theshow]

Lets be honest: As much as the NBA has become all about money and marketing, and their superstars are all ghetto trash from da hood, basketball is still a great sport.

The NHL sucks. It is just be a nuisance listening to WKNR and having Johnny Hockey calling up and talking about the NHL franchise. You can't see the stupid puck. Hockey is for losers.

[Hermie13]

One minor clarification to my earlier point: I was referring to the NHL as a 3rd team (replacing the Cavs).

Given that you think that both the NHL and NBA can't work here was building Gund Arena (now the Q) a mistake (especially when the additional sin tax dollars could have gone toward building a new football stadium before the original Browns left)? I ask this because the thought has come to my mind in the last couple of days? Granted, Mayor White may have blocked Jacobs Field funding over the lack of an Arena (he had made comments to the effect), but if it had been replaced with a plan for a new Browns stadium, it's doubtful his bluff would've held.

Fair enough....but losing the Cavs would show that we can't support a 3rd team. Why bring in an even less popular sport?


Building the Q was not a mistake per se (signing a 30-year lease was). Cavs had been around since the 70s and the economy was about to take off. You win some and you lose some....still no official ruling here, but if Lebron leaves, the Cavs are boned.

[Hermie13]

Lets be honest: As much as the NBA has become all about money and marketing, and their superstars are all ghetto trash from da hood, basketball is still a great sport.

The NHL sucks. It is just be a nuisance listening to WKNR and having Johnny Hockey calling up and talking about the NHL franchise. You can't see the stupid puck. Hockey is for losers.

Well.....gotta disagree 100% here. May want to get your eyes looked at or upgrade your TV if you ca'nt see the puck, lol.

Won't get too into this. But personally think hockey is a great sport (way, WAY better than the NBA-style basketball IMO). Love the Blue Jackets and Monsters games are more fun than Cavs games (though would be nice if beers didn't cost the same price lol).

Everyone has their opinions though I guess....

[Upper Box Woodchuck]

Lets be honest: As much as the NBA has become all about money and marketing, and their superstars are all ghetto trash from da hood, basketball is still a great sport.

The NHL sucks. It is just be a nuisance listening to WKNR and having Johnny Hockey calling up and talking about the NHL franchise. You can't see the stupid puck. Hockey is for losers.

Well.....gotta disagree 100% here. May want to get your eyes looked at or upgrade your TV if you ca'nt see the puck, lol.

Won't get too into this. But personally think hockey is a great sport (way, WAY better than the NBA-style basketball IMO). Love the Blue Jackets and Monsters games are more fun than Cavs games (though would be nice if beers didn't cost the same price lol).

Everyone has their opinions though I guess....

Cool! I'm not the only Jackets fan up here. Most of the hockey fans I meet in NE Ohio are Penguins or Red Wings fans (with ex-Detroiters making up a good % of the Red Wing fans). Since this thread has already been hijacked into oblivion (sorry 'bout that), what do you think of Arniel as the new coach. I would've preferred keeping Noel, but i can see how they might want a clean break from the Hitchcock era (even though I think he got way too quick of a hook only a year after taking them to the playoffs).

[JP_Frost]

Just noticed that ESPN America is broadcasting the LeBron "thing" live at 3:00 AM here, maybe I'll watch it.

Btw, somewhat off topic, but seeing Haywood Workman in the Reggie Miller doc made my day.