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Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:44 am

tribefan611 wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:Talbot had a fine year, better than expected, but by no means is any more a lock for the rotation next year than Tomlin. He'll obviously go in with a leg up for the 5th spot because of his okay season and being out of options, but I think there will be consideration for another to replace him in the rotation out of spring depending on how a Tomlin/Gomez do. Since May 1st, in 23 starts he is 6-12 with a 5.14 ERA, .288 BAA, 1.60 WHIP, 4.1 BB/9, 5.4 K/9....yuck. He had a fine April, but the league adjusted to him and he has been a below average pitcher for most of the season. No lock at all if you ask me. Favored? Maybe. Lock? No way.


Ditto.

+2. Unless he steps up his game, he is likely trade bait sometime during 2011 but he sure was nice to have around at the beginning of 2010. The additional year of recovery from the arm issues might help but better arms appear everywhere if he doesn't show better command.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:20 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Talbot had a fine year, better than expected, but by no means is any more a lock for the rotation next year than Tomlin. He'll obviously go in with a leg up for the 5th spot because of his okay season and being out of options, but I think there will be consideration for another to replace him in the rotation out of spring depending on how a Tomlin/Gomez do. Since May 1st, in 23 starts he is 6-12 with a 5.14 ERA, .288 BAA, 1.60 WHIP, 4.1 BB/9, 5.4 K/9....yuck. He had a fine April, but the league adjusted to him and he has been a below average pitcher for most of the season. No lock at all if you ask me. Favored? Maybe. Lock? No way.


So since April, Talbot has still been arguably better than Gomez (.307 BAA, 5.3 K/9, and WHIP of 1.65). Talbot surrendered 11 HRs in those 23 starts...in 11 Gomez has given up 7. Better strike% and a lower linedrive%.

And since we're taking out Talbot's good start in April....take out Gomez's first start and his ERA is 5.33 with a BAA of .313 and WHIP over 1.75. Talbot (albeit small sample) has had a better September than Gomez too.


Respectfully disagree here, Talbot is a lock for the rotation to start the year (barring an injury of course). He's shown he can go out there and give you 150-160 innings in the bigs, something Gomez, Tomlin, nor Carrasco has shown yet. You need a guy like Talbot in there to at least give you 5-6 innings, even if he's gonna get knocked around some. Now if he struggles, the Tribe may not hesitate to go with a young guy. But has to be in the rotation next year. No way in hell do they go with 3 virtual rookies in Carrasco, Gomez, and Tomlin. And no point in signing a guy like Westbrook when Talbot can give you just as much really for a fraction of the cost.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:55 pm

At this point, give me Tomlin. He's been the most consistent guy all year (no thanks on Gomez right now)...but, most of all, let them all battle it out and let the best one win. Talbot's performance hardly wins out here. And he essentially has a half season's experience over those others, which is nothing. If he is a lock (he isn't) I would have a problem with that. We aren't talking about a 4-5 vet with a history of performance here. The only history is injuries and for the most part a subpar season this year.

Start with Carmona, Carrasco and Masterson, and fill in accordingly. Carrasco gets the default nod because, well, he is a highly rated and thought of prospect. It's time for them to see what he can do. The others at this point, including Talbot, are fill in until proven otherwise.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby GhostofTedCox » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:53 pm

TonyIPI wrote:At this point, give me Tomlin. He's been the most consistent guy all year (no thanks on Gomez right now)...but, most of all, let them all battle it out and let the best one win. Talbot's performance hardly wins out here. And he essentially has a half season's experience over those others, which is nothing. If he is a lock (he isn't) I would have a problem with that. We aren't talking about a 4-5 vet with a history of performance here. The only history is injuries and for the most part a subpar season this year.

Start with Carmona, Carrasco and Masterson, and fill in accordingly. Carrasco gets the default nod because, well, he is a highly rated and thought of prospect. It's time for them to see what he can do. The others at this point, including Talbot, are fill in until proven otherwise.


I don't see why everyone is so eager to pencil in Masterson in the starting rotation for next year. One of the big disappointments for me this season is that we still haven't determined if he is a starter or should be in the pen. Yes, he has a great arm. But if you don't know what your're going to get when you start him, that will kill a bullpen. I would even test the waters and see what kind of trade value he has. By mid-season 2011, we should have plenty of SP that could take his place.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:41 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:I don't see why everyone is so eager to pencil in Masterson in the starting rotation for next year. One of the big disappointments for me this season is that we still haven't determined if he is a starter or should be in the pen. Yes, he has a great arm. But if you don't know what your're going to get when you start him, that will kill a bullpen. I would even test the waters and see what kind of trade value he has. By mid-season 2011, we should have plenty of SP that could take his place.


Masterson has arguably been our best starting pitcher this year. Could argue he's been better than Carmona. Acta has stated that Masty is a starter going into 2011, period. Not even a debate where he starts next year.

Top 25 in the entire AL in FIP at 3.99 (best on the team). Top 20 in xFIP at 4.05...ahead of Cahill and Bucholz who have been mentioned as outside Cy Young candidates, and .02 behind David Price who will be a top 3 in the Cy Young voting with Felix and CC. Needs to cut down on the walks some, but with an improved defense next year (AC can't get worse, same with Donald) and a BABIP that has to come down from the .333 that it's at......

And you dont' see why everyone is eager to keep him in the rotation? :dunno:
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:41 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
GhostofTedCox wrote:I don't see why everyone is so eager to pencil in Masterson in the starting rotation for next year. One of the big disappointments for me this season is that we still haven't determined if he is a starter or should be in the pen. Yes, he has a great arm. But if you don't know what your're going to get when you start him, that will kill a bullpen. I would even test the waters and see what kind of trade value he has. By mid-season 2011, we should have plenty of SP that could take his place.


Masterson has arguably been our best starting pitcher this year. Could argue he's been better than Carmona. Acta has stated that Masty is a starter going into 2011, period. Not even a debate where he starts next year.

Top 25 in the entire AL in FIP at 3.99 (best on the team). Top 20 in xFIP at 4.05...ahead of Cahill and Bucholz who have been mentioned as outside Cy Young candidates, and .02 behind David Price who will be a top 3 in the Cy Young voting with Felix and CC. Needs to cut down on the walks some, but with an improved defense next year (AC can't get worse, same with Donald) and a BABIP that has to come down from the .333 that it's at......

And you dont' see why everyone is eager to keep him in the rotation? :dunno:

Not looking to start an argument but I lean more to Tony and believe that Masterson has the potential to be a quality #3 starter, maybe a bit more if his command and secondary pitches improve. It is easy to blame his problems on the IF defense which may be a contributing factor but It looks to me like most of Masterson's problems are self induced. He has a plus fastball but his seconday pitches , while improved, probably are not ML average at this time IMO. His command is not good and he throws far too many pitches IMO. Maybe he will refine these problems but I see little upside left. I go along with you and Tony in the assessment he is a lock for next year and will be a quality 3rd starter behing Carmona and Carrasco who appears to have outgrown the self destruct tendencies. :friends:
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:47 am

indianinkslinger wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
GhostofTedCox wrote:I don't see why everyone is so eager to pencil in Masterson in the starting rotation for next year. One of the big disappointments for me this season is that we still haven't determined if he is a starter or should be in the pen. Yes, he has a great arm. But if you don't know what your're going to get when you start him, that will kill a bullpen. I would even test the waters and see what kind of trade value he has. By mid-season 2011, we should have plenty of SP that could take his place.


Masterson has arguably been our best starting pitcher this year. Could argue he's been better than Carmona. Acta has stated that Masty is a starter going into 2011, period. Not even a debate where he starts next year.

Top 25 in the entire AL in FIP at 3.99 (best on the team). Top 20 in xFIP at 4.05...ahead of Cahill and Bucholz who have been mentioned as outside Cy Young candidates, and .02 behind David Price who will be a top 3 in the Cy Young voting with Felix and CC. Needs to cut down on the walks some, but with an improved defense next year (AC can't get worse, same with Donald) and a BABIP that has to come down from the .333 that it's at......

And you dont' see why everyone is eager to keep him in the rotation? :dunno:

Not looking to start an argument but I lean more to Tony and believe that Masterson has the potential to be a quality #3 starter, maybe a bit more if his command and secondary pitches improve. It is easy to blame his problems on the IF defense which may be a contributing factor but It looks to me like most of Masterson's problems are self induced. He has a plus fastball but his seconday pitches , while improved, probably are not ML average at this time IMO. His command is not good and he throws far too many pitches IMO. Maybe he will refine these problems but I see little upside left. I go along with you and Tony in the assessment he is a lock for next year and will be a quality 3rd starter behing Carmona and Carrasco who appears to have outgrown the self destruct tendencies. :friends:


Yeah, you'll get so debate from me on Masterson. The way I see it and understand it, he's the most sure thing to be in the rotation next year. He actually had a very good season in his first year starting (people forget that).
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:22 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:Not looking to start an argument but I lean more to Tony and believe that Masterson has the potential to be a quality #3 starter, maybe a bit more if his command and secondary pitches improve. It is easy to blame his problems on the IF defense which may be a contributing factor but It looks to me like most of Masterson's problems are self induced. He has a plus fastball but his seconday pitches , while improved, probably are not ML average at this time IMO. His command is not good and he throws far too many pitches IMO. Maybe he will refine these problems but I see little upside left. I go along with you and Tony in the assessment he is a lock for next year and will be a quality 3rd starter behing Carmona and Carrasco who appears to have outgrown the self destruct tendencies. :friends:


I agree here, but still believe that a better defense would have seen him ERA drop by at least half a run. And part of the problem with too many pitches can also be attributed to not getting out of innigns when easy grounders find holes on the infield.

Agree on his secondary stuff, though I feel after watching him all year that both his slider and change have improved drastically from where they were the first 2 months, when he was basically a 1 pitch pitcher. Obviously, as you said, he has a ways to go, but as Tony mentioned, it is his first full year as a starter in the bigs, so we'll see.

Even if he ends up only a #3, I'd take that. To me he's Westbrook but with a better ability to get a strikeout when needed. Was hoping to see his secondary stuff develop to the point where he could turn out to be a Brandon Webb type of frontman...but think that may be a tad optimistic. :drinks:
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:24 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Yeah, you'll get so debate from me on Masterson. The way I see it and understand it, he's the most sure thing to be in the rotation next year. He actually had a very good season in his first year starting (people forget that).


Are you saying he's viewed more highly than Carmona? Or was that a subtle hint that Carmona may be seriously put on the block this winter?
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:02 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:Yeah, you'll get so debate from me on Masterson. The way I see it and understand it, he's the most sure thing to be in the rotation next year. He actually had a very good season in his first year starting (people forget that).


Are you saying he's viewed more highly than Carmona? Or was that a subtle hint that Carmona may be seriously put on the block this winter?


Oh no, not saying he is viewed more highly than Carmona. Just when looking at all the starters, he seems to be the one most locked in to the rotation for next year. Carmona is getting pricey and there may be choice made to strike while the iron is hot on him, though I think in the end if the Indians do anything it will be more listening to offers rather than searching for them.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby GoTribe028 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:30 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Carmona is getting pricey and there may be choice made to strike while the iron is hot on him, though I think in the end if the Indians do anything it will be more listening to offers rather than searching for them.


I know this is just you "thinking out loud" in a sense but you know, as much as I support this team, at some point that whole 'getting pricey' excuse is no longer valid. If anyone is to believe this team could possibly be on the upswing by 2012 then Carmona has to be in the picture and no, there is no other way to spin it.

If the Indians move Carmona, then may as well go ahead and move Choo, Cabrera, Perez, Sipp, Santana, Carrasco and anyone else with the potential to contribute to this team because it's all just a big joke.

That whole "they just trade them when they get good" quotation that your buddy The DiaTriber used in his column a few weeks ago begins to hold water.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby indianinkslinger » Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:08 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:Carmona is getting pricey and there may be choice made to strike while the iron is hot on him, though I think in the end if the Indians do anything it will be more listening to offers rather than searching for them.


I know this is just you "thinking out loud" in a sense but you know, as much as I support this team, at some point that whole 'getting pricey' excuse is no longer valid. If anyone is to believe this team could possibly be on the upswing by 2012 then Carmona has to be in the picture and no, there is no other way to spin it.

If the Indians move Carmona, then may as well go ahead and move Choo, Cabrera, Perez, Sipp, Santana, Carrasco and anyone else with the potential to contribute to this team because it's all just a big joke.

That whole "they just trade them when they get good" quotation that your buddy The DiaTriber used in his column a few weeks ago begins to hold water.

I really don't think they will trade Carmona but who knows. He is not up for FA which is more relevant to me than "when they get good" but they often appear at the same time. Sooner or later, they will all be traded or become FAs for other teams to pick up. When you are the "franchise of last resort", that is a fact of life IMO. Right now, the Indians are developing replacement players for the current roster and seem to be having some success. I expect several more roster changes throughout 2011 as they rebuild and i think it likely the pitching will be continually upgraded. Players like Talbot, Tomlin, Lewis and Hermann are all expendable as higher ceiling pitchers are moved into the roster. Just my theory, anyway. :pleasantry:
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby tribefan611 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:34 pm

Great to see Talbot have a good game today.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:51 pm

tribefan611 wrote:Great to see Talbot have a good game today.


Yes, nice start and strong finish to his season. Dare I say trade bait this offseason?
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:15 pm

Maybe we should make it a board rule that we have to start a Talbot stinks thread at least once a month next year?

He seems to go out and dominate every time we talk him down.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby MadThinker88 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:32 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Dare I say trade bait this offseason?


More so than Huff??
I think Huff gets moved before Talbot but I highly doubt that both get moved unless a viable/ usable starter comes back in one of the trades.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:48 am

MadThinker88 wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:Dare I say trade bait this offseason?


More so than Huff??
I think Huff gets moved before Talbot but I highly doubt that both get moved unless a viable/ usable starter comes back in one of the trades.


You are going to get 50 cents on the dollar, if that, for Huff right now. You have to keep him....because if you trade him you are essentially dumping him at lowest value. Talbot's value will likely never be higher, and he appears to be more filler than long term for this team. That said, I ain't saying to trade him just to do it....as he would be a solid option for the rotation next year. But if he could be flipped for a need say at 3B, by all means do it.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:14 pm

TonyIPI wrote:
tribefan611 wrote:Great to see Talbot have a good game today.


Yes, nice start and strong finish to his season. Dare I say trade bait this offseason?



I agree, definitely think he could be dangled this winter. There are a few guys on the current roster I'd field calls on (Jason Donald is another, Lou Marson as well).


Also agree on Huff, mostly. Moreso there with the lack of lefties....he very likely could be the only lefty starter above AA to start the year (unless Barnes beats out White, Pino, etc). I do think he's a guy you could package with somone ala a Ben Francisco, but don't think a straight up trade will be worth it for the Tribe.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby theshow » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:32 pm

Hermie13 wrote:I agree, definitely think he could be dangled this winter. There are a few guys on the current roster I'd field calls on (Jason Donald is another, Lou Marson as well).


Because so many teams wants unproven pitchers with 11-13 records, catchers with no power who can't hit their weight, and unproven utility infielders. You guys can keep living on your little planet, but I prefer to stay on this planet, earth.

I'd love to package Matt McBride, Zach McAllister, and Jared Goedert for Jeremy Hellickson, but you guys don't seem to get that people don't want our excess crap for their quality. Other teams have GM's who are educated and not simply monkeys.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby danh8 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:48 pm

TonyIPI wrote:
MadThinker88 wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:Dare I say trade bait this offseason?


More so than Huff??
I think Huff gets moved before Talbot but I highly doubt that both get moved unless a viable/ usable starter comes back in one of the trades.


You are going to get 50 cents on the dollar, if that, for Huff right now. You have to keep him....because if you trade him you are essentially dumping him at lowest value. Talbot's value will likely never be higher, and he appears to be more filler than long term for this team. That said, I ain't saying to trade him just to do it....as he would be a solid option for the rotation next year. But if he could be flipped for a need say at 3B, by all means do it.


Trading Huff would be a mistake because, as Tony mentioned, you'd be selling at a low ...that would be a poor time to utilize whatever value he may have on the market. Talbot...again ....may bring back something quite decent actually. He's had the kind of season that would entice a sound offer, in my opinion. You'd really have to make a sound and brutally honest evaluation of him if you do look to go this route.

Is what he did this season a mirage ? Or is he a pitcher who, with a change in scenery, finally began to realize the talent and projection that he had a few years back, and merely got set back due to some nagging injuries that negatively effected his performance, and delayed his ascension to the majors ?

He's been a solid 4-5 starter this season, and comes at an extremely attactive price tag for the foreseeable future. I don't, in my opinion, believe his performance level was a mirage. I believe he's got a solid repetoire/control/smarts and for at least this coming season, fills a needed spot in our rotation without blocking anyone as we head into next season. Plus, you never have enough depth when it comes to starting pitching. Just when you think you do ...you realize that you don't.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:39 pm

I don't see a rush to make a trade unless we help the rebuild and I just cannot see a short term 3B as a rebuild. Most of these guys that we are talking about are BOR and will have more value at midseason next year I would think. Youth will be served and I expect White and Gomez to move from Columbus sometime next year. IMO, they will replace the weakest members of the rotation no matter who they are. Personally, I hope Tomlin and Talbot make the rotation if Reyes cannot go since both are easily expendable and have little upside. Huff has a ways to go to get back to prospect status from what i see. I would think his value is close to nil at this time. :pleasantry:
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby tribefan611 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:07 pm

Hate to bring this poor thread back, but I officially have.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby tribefan611 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:15 pm

To continue, I am by no means giving up on Talbot, but he was downright awful since the first of June last year and now has a ST ERA of over 20. When you have Tomlin and Huff pitching great and Talbot pitching awful......ummm??????
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:19 pm

Not too concerned YET. It's early in ST. Gives you a moment of pause, but that's about it.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby tribefan611 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:23 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Not too concerned YET. It's early in ST. Gives you a moment of pause, but that's about it.


Do you not consider it if the 3 of them continue to pitch the way they are? The only thing going for him is being out of options.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby npc29 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:26 pm

tribefan611 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Not too concerned YET. It's early in ST. Gives you a moment of pause, but that's about it.


Do you not consider it if the 3 of them continue to pitch the way they are? The only thing going for him is being out of options.


I think he'd have to go out and get shelled like he did today every time out for this to be an issue.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby daingean » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:12 pm

Pitchers this early in ST are often working on specific things. Wait until about March 20th then start evaluating what he does.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:30 pm

That game Talbot started today is 16 to 14 in the 8th with home runs flying out of the pitchers hands cause of the wind, and you're only worried about Talbot?
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby tribefan611 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:29 pm

All I'm saying is, I'm not sold on him. He was awful in the 2nd half and has been worse so far this spring. I realize that it's only been 2 starts and I am not saying he has pitched his way out of his job. I guess a better question is: Should he have been guaranteed a job in the first place?
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby tribefan611 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:30 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:That game Talbot started today is 16 to 14 in the 8th with home runs flying out of the pitchers hands cause of the wind, and you're only worried about Talbot?


I am also extremely concerned about Joe Martinez's future with us. :wacko:
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:37 pm

hmm.. the patterns during spring training.. seemingly on schedule.. first week to ten days of ST, the pitchers are well ahead of the hitters.. they usually have "good" short outings with a few blow ups.. each pitchers first primary job at the outset of spring training is fastball command... In their two and three and four inning outings, pitchers pitch selections are typically 10 to 30 % higher fastballs than they will be during the regular season...

This is where Talbot fails.. his fastball is nothing special.. without his full arsenal, he's a mediocre to poor pitcher.. With ML talented batters.. they hammer him.. While it's been said above, wait to see, most younger pitchers, don't have the patience and attempt to do things their arms will regret.. Once Talbot and the rest of the Indians starting pitchers get their pitch counts above 50, that's when to watch..

David Huff is excluded from this little diddy.. he's having a helluva spring..
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby artgold » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:08 pm

Though it is still early, my view this offseason was that Carmona, Masterson and Carrasco were locks for the rotation, and that Tomlin, Talbot and Huff would be competing for the last two spots.

Talbot surprised me a bit last season, doing better than I expected. However, I still think Huff and Tomlin will ultimately end up beating him out for the 4th and 5th starting slots. Talbot may be the long man in the pen, and given another shot if/when a starter repeatedly falters.

Overall though, I think the pitching shouldn't be too bad this season, assuming the guys can stay reasonably healthy.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:17 pm

artgold wrote:Though it is still early, my view this offseason was that Carmona, Masterson and Carrasco were locks for the rotation, and that Tomlin, Talbot and Huff would be competing for the last two spots.

Talbot surprised me a bit last season, doing better than I expected. However, I still think Huff and Tomlin will ultimately end up beating him out for the 4th and 5th starting slots. Talbot may be the long man in the pen, and given another shot if/when a starter repeatedly falters.

Overall though, I think the pitching shouldn't be too bad this season, assuming the guys can stay reasonably healthy.

+1. Good stuff Art. I hope that Gomez is not an option out of ST but I think he and White will be the first guys up. I think the whole staff will upgrade as the season continues. Inexperience will be the bugaboo IMO. :pleasantry:
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby tribefan611 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:34 pm

artgold wrote:Though it is still early, my view this offseason was that Carmona, Masterson and Carrasco were locks for the rotation, and that Tomlin, Talbot and Huff would be competing for the last two spots.

Talbot surprised me a bit last season, doing better than I expected. However, I still think Huff and Tomlin will ultimately end up beating him out for the 4th and 5th starting slots. Talbot may be the long man in the pen, and given another shot if/when a starter repeatedly falters.

Overall though, I think the pitching shouldn't be too bad this season, assuming the guys can stay reasonably healthy.


Exactly what I'm getting at. Talbot should not have been given a spot, and I believe he is pitching his way out of it.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:17 pm

Talbot had a solid year last season, so he earned a leg up to start the season over Tomlin, Gomez, and Huff. He got shelled today, but some of that was wind related too. He'll be in the rotation to start the season unless he gets hurt....he's not a long term guy though, so if he struggles a month or two into the season, he'll be given his walking papers. He's just a short term guy (unless he miraculously becomes Westbrook).
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:46 am

Really Tony?
They don't consider him a long term guy?
Thank you, Lord!
Thats an early Christmas present.
I think he's a middle reliever myself but really the Tribe got something for nothing with him... They weren't going to keep Shoppach arround and i cant blame them, but it would be nice to have his power back there again.

David Huff who really struggled last yr has been impressive this far. His change to his change has seemingly made it a solid offering, could be the adjustment he needed. --just when I thought he might flame out. They really need him to step up and be a lefty starter they are lacking.

Personally I'd rather see Tomlin than Talbot in the rotation. Tomlin is better suited as a mid reliever / long man but has shown a nice ability to just go out and pitch.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:00 am

No one can deny Huff's start to this spring training has been at a "hair on fire" level. The biggest difference, difference being the key work, is his fastball velocity is a tick or two higher.. and his new grip change up is a tick or two lower.. Last year, Huff's fastball sat at 89-90 with his change up at 85-86.. not enough of a difference. By adding a tick or two (91-92) to his fastball and taking away a tick or two (83-84) from his change up, Huff is approaching the "magical" double digit separation between the two pitches that are otherwise imperceptible upon delivery. We'll see if the progress continues through the "dead arm" and "aches and pains" portion of spring training....
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:13 am

Talbot, Tomlin, ZMac are all right handed, all have fastballs that are in the upper 80's, low 90's, all have a secondary offering that complements their fastball, and all have third pitch that needs work.. This defines back of the rotation innings eaters.. One of the three may be in the starting rotation going north to face the CWSox on April Fools day. The other two will begin their season in Columbus.

Jeanmar Gomez, Alex White, Drew Pomeranz and Corey Kluber each have fastballs that sit in the 92+ range, each has a swing and miss complementary pitch.. and each has a third pitch with plus potential.. While Jeanmar Gomez has some experience in the ML's, Pom may be closest to being truly MLB ready, but may not be the "next" guy in the pecking order...

Just a guess, but after this "fab four" of Fausto Carmona, Justin Masterson, David Huff, and Carlos Carrasco, these seven guys will be competing for the lone remaining spot in the starting rotation, in order: Mitch Talbot, Josh Tomlin, Jeanmar Gomez, Zach MacAllister, Corey Kluber, Alex White and Drew Pomeranz. One of either Tomlin or Talbot may get a chance to open with the Indians as their long man/spot starter out of the bullpen.. we shall see...
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:36 am

It sounds like Columbus is going to be loaded with pitching talent.
I think Talbot has a lock on his spot for now... Until he gets hammered, then is sent down or moved to the pen.
I'm not a Huff or Talbot fan but id choose Huff between the two.
1. Carmona
2. Masterson
3. Carrasco
4. Huff
5. Talbot
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:11 pm

tribefan611 wrote:All I'm saying is, I'm not sold on him. He was awful in the 2nd half and has been worse so far this spring. I realize that it's only been 2 starts and I am not saying he has pitched his way out of his job. I guess a better question is: Should he have been guaranteed a job in the first place?


Talbot is a LOCK for the rotation barring injury (as Tony said).

Talbot's 2nd half numbers do look ugly if you just look at his 1st/2nd half splits. But a closer look shows he was actually very good in September of last year. August he was injured and sucked.

And let's not also forget that he more than doubled his IP total from 2009 to 2010. Guys tend to hit roadblocks when they surpass their previous year's total (especially when it's under 70 innings) and Talbot did that early in the 2nd half.

I agree, he's no sure thing to be in the rotation at the end of the year. But he is our Andy Sonnanstine for right now. Sonnanstine didn't have the stuff that the younger/AAA Rays pitchers had but he pitched solidly in 2008 so had a rotation spot to start 2009. You reward guys for a job well done. don't take a guy's job away cause of 1 really bad month and a couple bad spring training starts.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:12 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:It sounds like Columbus is going to be loaded with pitching talent.
I think Talbot has a lock on his spot for now... Until he gets hammered, then is sent down or moved to the pen.
I'm not a Huff or Talbot fan but id choose Huff between the two.
1. Carmona
2. Masterson
3. Carrasco
4. Huff
5. Talbot


Pretty sure Talbot is out of minor league options.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:25 pm

Hermit I think your right that's part of why the tribe wad able to get him, too bad to keep to good to dump (yet)... Until the plethora of arms emerges from the minors.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby homerawayfromhome » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:24 pm

Mitch Talbot was impressive today...
If he is trying to win a job as a BP pitcher.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby Hermie13 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:35 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Mitch Talbot was impressive today...
If he is trying to win a job as a BP pitcher.


Actually wasn't as bad as it looked. Only 2 of the hits were well struck. 3 were groundballs through the infield. Last run was unearned. Definitely not a great outing by any stretch, but actually wasn't too bad. A definite move in the right direction for Talby. nice to see some groundballs out of him. Both earned runs were scored on groundballs (one for a single, one for an out).
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:13 pm

I'd rather see Tomlin, Huff or JGomez in the rotation instead.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby Hermie13 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:28 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:I'd rather see Tomlin, Huff or JGomez in the rotation instead.


I wouldn't. But to each their own :drinks:
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:20 am

Talbot was not very good on Friday. He's going to open the season in the rotation, but he may be the first to lose his spot.
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby theshow » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:50 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Talbot was not very good on Friday. He's going to open the season in the rotation, but he may be the first to lose his spot.


When it is all said and done, I think this thread which has garnered such infamy will turn out to be prophetic. Talbot proved me wrong the first half of last year, but at the end of the day I think there are better options.

My 2012 predicted rotation:

1. Carmona
2. Carrasco
3. White
4. Huff
5. Gomez

(Masterson to the pen, Tomlin possibly in the pen or DFA'd, Talbot jettisoned)
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:32 am

theshow wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:Talbot was not very good on Friday. He's going to open the season in the rotation, but he may be the first to lose his spot.
When it is all said and done, I think this thread which has garnered such infamy will turn out to be prophetic. Talbot proved me wrong the first half of last year, but at the end of the day I think there are better options.

My 2012 predicted rotation:

1. Carmona
2. Carrasco
3. White
4. Huff
5. Gomez

(Masterson to the pen, Tomlin possibly in the pen or DFA'd, Talbot jettisoned)
2012 what?.. Definitely like the way Gomez pitches downhill.. A bit finer command of the fastball, primarily, and he could become as good as he wants to be.. Huff, smh, about a foot short on his fastball and no confidence with anything else.. He has a WHOLE lotta gettin better before he'll earn a rotation slot. For White & Pomeranz... it's not easy to say. Both have the tools. Both need to hone and sharpen and repeat honing and sharpening of those tools.. We shall see.. This year, 2011, Fausto, CarCar, Masterson, Gomez and Talbot.. with Josh Tomlin in the pen or in place of Talbot in the starting rotation..
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Re: Has anyone else seen just about enough Mitch Talbot?

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:04 pm

theshow wrote:When it is all said and done, I think this thread which has garnered such infamy will turn out to be prophetic. Talbot proved me wrong the first half of last year, but at the end of the day I think there are better options.

My 2012 predicted rotation:

1. Carmona
2. Carrasco
3. White
4. Huff
5. Gomez

(Masterson to the pen, Tomlin possibly in the pen or DFA'd, Talbot jettisoned)


Anything is possible...but right now can't see us taking arguably our best SP and putting him in the pen (Masterson). I can definitely see Talbot DFAed by 2012 though (not Tomlin barring a major injury). I do think Talbot could have a nice career in the pen though as a long reliever.
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