Indians Supposedly Looking at Teahen

by **endlesssleeper** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:46 pm

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/royals ... 59354.html

Really hoping this is not true. Mark Teahen???? This deal would do absolutely nothing, the guy is mediocre at best.

by **jellis** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:33 pm

If true it means to me at least the Indians believe Hodges can take over at first and are trading from depth to get a serviceable opinion for next year. I really think at this point the Indians are looking to make there big trade to get an SP

by **GhostofTedCox** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:49 pm

I'm not for this deal at this time. The Indians do need a FOR SP, AND bullpen, AND starting INF, (probably in that order). I wouldn't trade an OF right now that could be used as a bargaining chip in a larger trade. Teahen would be nothing more than a stopgap. His career OBP is .332. He would be an improvement over Marte, but not by much.

by **MadThinker88** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:01 pm

I need to mull this one over for a couple days. Teahen would be a possiblity at 3B or corner OF. Additionally, he could be part of another trade that Shapiro is looking at.

by **Hermie13** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:06 pm

I'm all for this deal if it is indeed Francisco for Teahan. Teahan can play 3B and gives you the same power and such. Only will cost about $3M and saves a bunch of money for a starter and bullpen help. Teahan is a lot like Casey Blake. 3B is his natural position and going back should help his offense some too.

Keep Crowe and use him as trade bait for a starter.....

Bigger question to me would be.....if we're willing to do an intra-divisional trade......could we entice them to add Soria and throw a bunch of prospects at them as well? Doubtful as Soria was deemed untouchable......but I'd at least inquire on it.....as I'm sure Shapiro will/has....

by **TheWord** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:36 pm

Not a big fan of this deal.

I think this team should be looking to acquire a 2B, but it looks as though the FO thinks otherwise.

I don't think I trade Gutierrez or Crowe at this point for Teahen. Guti can play all 3 positions as a backup and is younger than BenF, who I am not really impressed by given his tendency to pull everything.

by **TonyIBI** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:42 pm

Blecht.

How about a deal for Soria? :s_biggrin

by **TheWord** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:34 am

I'd love to at least know the asking price for Teahen/Soria.

If it took a Crowe, Weglarz, Huff combo and a lower level guy to do something like that...so be it.

by **TonyIBI** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:36 am

Thing is, Royals are trying to win next year.....not rebuild.

by **Hermie13** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:24 am

I agree....they may deal Soria....but they'd want a pair of MLers or near MLers. Probably have to part with LaPorta and Huff to get them to part with him and Teahan.....not a fan of that....

by **toledobuck** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:35 am

Teahen for Gutz seems to be the best option for the Tribe. I am not sure if I would want to part with Francisco or Crowe for Teahen. I believe that there are better 3B targets out there right now to obtain via trade.

by **MickS** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:46 am

toledobuck wrote:Teahen for Gutz seems to be the best option for the Tribe. I am not sure if I would want to part with Francisco or Crowe for Teahen. I believe that there are better 3B targets out there right now to obtain via trade.

I'm seeing things exactly opposite. With Gutierrez as the younger, better defender with the most upside, he's the guy I'd least like to part with. Crowe is, in my mind, the most expendable. Brantley is essentially Crowe but younger and better.

by **MadThinker88** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:53 am

I think Crowe should be held onto at this point. Otherwise you are back down to only 1 person (in this case now Brantley) as a possible future leadoff hitter. Better to have multiple chances then only one.

by **Hermie13** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:18 am

We have more than one future leadoff hitter even if we part with Crowe. Grady doesn't have to be moved. OBP of .380+ is fine even with the power he provides.

I do agree though, I'd rather hold on to Crowe....but only because I think he'd be a nice addition to a trade for a starting pitcher....

by **TonyIBI** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:38 pm

To me, Gutierrez embodies everything that is wrong with this lineup and why it goes through such long dry spells and funks. He is wildly inconsistent and strikes out way too much. He has some pop, is an excellent defender....but outside of that he is what he is. There is hardly any upside offensively anymore as he has not really changed or improved the last 3-4 seasons. Two scouts in particular told me that, and it to me is clearly evident when you watch him at the plate and look at his stats.

Of the three outfielders presented, he is the one with the least upside if you ask me and the one I would deal. Crowe to me is more valuable. Yes, he is a lesser defender, but I also think Crowe fits this team better with his ability to get on base, put the bat on the ball consistently, a little better speed, and just as much pop in his bat.

by **Hermie13** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:07 pm

I'll give you Crowe.....but I don't see Francisco having more value to this club than Gut. Francicisco is just an average hitter. He comes on strong when first brought up then once pitchers figure him out he goes into dry spells. every once in a while he comes out with a 3-4 hit game that bumps his average up, but he's a 4th OFer (reminds me of Alex Ramirez a lot).

Gut being faster, much better defensively, and having the stronger arm, makes more sense to keep around IMO.

And isn't Gut only 1 year older than Crowe? Gut was hurt this year by not having an option left. He needed to get more consistent playing time (didn't deserve it at the ML level though). He did show signs of coming back late in the year.

Of the 3 he's got the highest ceiling. DEFINATELY needs to be more consistent though (could say that about three quarters of this team it seems)....

by **dnosco** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:43 pm

My take is that Teahan IS Casey Blake, just cheaper, statistically speaking. Considering he has spent most of his professional career in KC we have no idea what he is like as a leader or a player on a winning team, something that I think was a plus for Casey.

Crowe is either going to hit it big or be a nothing. My feeling is if you give him a big league job you will be amazed at what he does...but that is just my opinion.

Gutierrez...I would have thrown him in for Bay in a heartbeat last year. I think he is a 4th outfielder type. However, look at Grady offensively when he came up. Short on walks, great on everything else. Now he walks close to 100 times a year. Gutz has shown more ability to be selective this year, I think, and with selectivity comes more power, IMHO.

Francisco is exactly what he showed in 2008. .265-.295 BA, 30-45 2B and 15-25 HR.

So, any of these trades have a chance to blow up in our face. Teahan is what he is and won't get much better in my opinion, although you could make a case that putting him in a better lineup (if ours is better than KC's ?!?!?) and on a better team might help his focus. Still, we are accepting limited upside and giving up a lot of it...for a potential stopgap player who might get to free agency about the time we want him to settle in as Casey Blake part deux.

So, while the trade is intriguing I pass on picking up a stopgap soon-to-be utility guy for any player with upside.

I would rather include one or two of those guys when getting a real third base prospect instead of a stopgap. Doing the latter is how teams become old and bad quickly.

by **TonyIBI** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:57 pm

Hermie13 wrote:I'll give you Crowe.....but I don't see Francisco having more value to this club than Gut. Francicisco is just an average hitter. He comes on strong when first brought up then once pitchers figure him out he goes into dry spells. every once in a while he comes out with a 3-4 hit game that bumps his average up, but he's a 4th OFer (reminds me of Alex Ramirez a lot).

Gut being faster, much better defensively, and having the stronger arm, makes more sense to keep around IMO.

And isn't Gut only 1 year older than Crowe? Gut was hurt this year by not having an option left. He needed to get more consistent playing time (didn't deserve it at the ML level though). He did show signs of coming back late in the year.

Of the 3 he's got the highest ceiling. DEFINATELY needs to be more consistent though (could say that about three quarters of this team it seems)....

http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2 ... dians.html

Ben Francisco: The one scout just loves him. The team he scouts for is a perenniel playoff team, and they always say "is this guy better than what we have" and "can he help us win a championship" when they scout players from other teams. Francisco he said was a yes to both those questions. There is a ton of value with him and he agreed with me when I mentioned my frustration about the Michaels/Dellucci situation and Ben being in Buffalo. He said he is a major league talent and can flat out hit. Should be our starting LFer. He even went as far as to say when Ben and Franklin Gutierrez were in Buffalo that he always rated Ben much higher than Franklin. Feels Francisco CLEARLY has the much better bat while Gutierrez gets an edge on defense although not as much as many think. In every year the last three years Francisco has been rated higher than Gutierrez by their organization. Was ready to pounce on him in Dec 2006 Rule 5 Draft if he was not rostered.

by **Hermie13** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:08 pm

hmm, well guess all scouts see things differently. Almost no one wanted Francisco last winter in a trade, yet you kept hearing Gutierrez's name coming up.

I just can't stand how Francisco concistently turns the wrong way on fly balls and makes rather routine plays look tough. He's also pretty old for a 1st time starter in the majors and the speed he showed in the minors hasn't really translated at all to the big leagues. We'll see though. Does have good gap power; I'll give him that.

But in Gut's first extended stint with the Tribe, he had a higher OPS than Francisco did (higher SLG too). Gut just seems so much more athletic to me I guess....rather keep him.

Might be a moot point though, as I'm not sure why the Royals would want Francisco if they're more interested in a CFer. Yeah, Benny can play there....but both Gut and Crowe are better suited for that spot in the OF....

by **MickS** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:17 pm

Francisco is a really good 4th OF, but a 4th OF nonetheless. Crowe has proven nothing and is getting a little long in the tooth for a prospect. Still, his speed and lead off ability are intriquing. I would have no problem parting with either.

Gutierrez stands out because of his sterling defense. If Grady were to go down for a period of time (heavan forbid), I'd want Franklin patrolling center field in his absence. Gut. isn't untouchable by any means but I'd want more than Teahen for him. Plus, the Marlins have expressed interest in him in the past and he could be part of a package for a starting pitcher.

by **Hermie13** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:18 pm

I have a feeling the Marlins interest in Gut is gone now that they have Maybin in CF and Ross, Willingham, and Hermida for 2 spots at the corners....

by **dnosco** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:41 pm

I'll tell you what, though, they take Dellucci and I make that deal...but who wouldn't?

by **Hermie13** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:00 am

dnosco wrote:I'll tell you what, though, they take Dellucci and I make that deal...but who wouldn't?

um...the Royals?

by **gotribe31** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:31 pm

I would deal any of the three straight up for Teahen. I have always liked him, and I think his bat will play at 3B until Hodges can take over (i.e., after his glove improves enough to take over). I think Gut has more value to a NL club because of his outstanding defense...he can at worst be a 4th OF off the bench as a defensive replacement. Brantley makes Crowe more or less expendable. I like Fransisco, but I'm not in love with him.

by **Hermie13** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:20 pm

ha, Hodges glove won't keep him from playing 3B in the majors.

Thome and Branyan both came up as 3B's and played there in the majors. If he can hit, he'll make the team. He's already much better than either of those two at the hot corner....

by **endlesssleeper** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:43 pm

Well, all this talk is pretty much irrelevant now since Dayton Moore said the rumors were a "flat-out lie," and Mark Shapiro all but said they were false as well. To be honest, I'm relieved. This trade would have been a bummer.

by **Hermie13** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:55 pm

ha, not only did Moore call it a flat-out lie, but called it a lie about 3-4 times in a matter of a few sentences, lol.

Even so, I'm not totally sold on there being absolutely no truth to this rumor. Why get so upset about it? Almost seems like there were talks, and Moore is made that they somehow leaked. If a rumor isn't true, just laugh it off and say it, he seemed almost defensive in his statement, like he had his hand caught in the cookie jar and was backtracking.

Just seemed a bit fishy to me. Probably nothing to it though.....

I'd have liked to have gotten Teahen for Francisco, but won't lose any sleep over not....

by **TonyIBI** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:00 pm

endlesssleeper wrote:Well, all this talk is pretty much irrelevant now since Dayton Moore said the rumors were a "flat-out lie," and Mark Shapiro all but said they were false as well. To be honest, I'm relieved. This trade would have been a bummer.

Which of course means the rumors are true. :s_biggrin

by **Jennifer** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:58 pm

Yes, the Indians did check out the Royals' Mark Teahen, but it doesn't appear to be very serious. His best season was 2006 (.290, 18 HR, 69 RBI, .874 OPS), but he has regressed the past two years. In 2008, he had 572 at-bats, with 15 HR and 59 RBI while hitting .255 with a .313 on-base percentage. He has played the outfield and third, and is barely average at either spot. He's 27, and he's really a guy to come off the bench. I hope the Indians don't think he can be their regular third baseman.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/ind ... s_hop.html

by **jellis** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:04 pm

good article I think its safe to say Roberts wont be an Indian, really not sure where we can find help. I wonder if the Phillies would trade Jason Donald who could be a nice 2B, I still would love to see if we could get headley out of SD since hes playing out of position.

Donald would be a nice choice, let him play SS and Philly needs an SP, which is an area of depth

by **Hermie13** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:17 am

Philly doens't need any of our 3rd/4th starters though. Their rotation is pretty set right now with Hamels, Myers, and Blanton 1-2-3 then most likely resigning Moyer and Happ pitching well too.

by **jellis** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:15 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Philly doens't need any of our 3rd/4th starters though. Their rotation is pretty set right now with Hamels, Myers, and Blanton 1-2-3 then most likely resigning Moyer and Happ pitching well too.

the issue is Moyer could still retire and is in his late 40's a pitcher like sowers that has optinion would have value to them and they have zero depth after them unless you like Kyle Kendrick who I think this year proved hes a 4A guy.

Hamels had a history of injury before he hit the majors and Myers is a head case so depth would be good

by **jellis** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:16 pm

also I would not be opposed to spec stop, if you get a donalds type player then Hodges is expendable to be moved since he would be blocked at 3B where his most value currently lies. I have warmed back up to moving peralta off SS, thinking he could muscle up a bit more and get his HR pop up to the 30-35 range

by **Hermie13** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:30 am

Moyer isn't going to retire. He pitched better this year than last and just won a WS ring....he'll get a 2 year deal.

by **TheWord** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:18 pm

Any team who gives Jamie Moyer a 2 year deal should be contracted immediately.

by **Hermie13** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:21 pm

TheWord wrote:Any team who gives Jamie Moyer a 2 year deal should be contracted immediately.

Well I guess there will only be 29 teams next year then.....

This Millenium he's only twice not thrown 200 innings.....196.1 and 199.1 were the totals those 2 years.....

by **TheWord** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:08 pm

And only once has Julio Franco not had a contract.

The point is all things come to an end, the last thing I want to see is Jamie Moyer pitch himself into retirement when he should be enjoying it after a world series win.

by **Hermie13** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:23 am

The difference is Franco wasn't good, and Moyer was still very effective last year. He's worth a 2-year deal and will get it.

by **TheWord** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:50 pm

Last year was the first time since 2003 his ERA dipped below 4, and just two years ago he finished with a 5.01 ERA.

Last season was an OBVIOUS abberation, and any team who will give him a 2 year deal knowing he will be 47 when his contract is up... is borderline irresponsible.

by **jellis** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:15 pm

TheWord wrote:Last year was the first time since 2003 his ERA dipped below 4, and just two years ago he finished with a 5.01 ERA.

Last season was an OBVIOUS abberation, and any team who will give him a 2 year deal knowing he will be 47 when his contract is up... is borderline irresponsible.

I think you can take away the borderline it would be irresponsible

by **endlesssleeper** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:09 pm

TheWord wrote:Last year was the first time since 2003 his ERA dipped below 4, and just two years ago he finished with a 5.01 ERA.

Last season was an OBVIOUS abberation, and any team who will give him a 2 year deal knowing he will be 47 when his contract is up... is borderline irresponsible.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Giving a 2 year deal to Moyer would be foolish.

by **jellis** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:58 pm

which brings me back to my point they need pitching they have a blocked ready SS with some nice pop, I would talk to them about donalds. You could package one of the many 4/5 SP we have plus a low level spec I mean a guy in the 25-30 range and Phi would have to think about Donald

by **JP_Frost** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:17 pm

jellis wrote:which brings me back to my point they need pitching they have a blocked ready SS with some nice pop, I would talk to them about donalds. You could package one of the many 4/5 SP we have plus a low level spec I mean a guy in the 25-30 range and Phi would have to think about Donald

That's actually a pretty good suggestion. I also read that Donald is more likely a 2nd baseman than a shortstop, so he could fill that role nicely. He put up a .888 OPS in AA this year and there aren't really any concerning splits.

by **jellis** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:13 pm

Joe (Raleigh): Keith, From what I've heard, Jason Donald was exceptional in the AFL. Did you see him play? Does he have a future in Philly?

SportsNation Keith Law: He could play 3b for them every day next year and probably give them above-average defense, but less bat than you want at the spot. That means that he may have more value to them in trade to a club that needs a ss or 2b. If I'm Ruben Amaro, that's the guy I'm using to fill whatever needs I decide I have (another starter would be nice).

just throwing a bit more backing to this idea, Donald at 2B or SS, then Asdrubal at the other move Peralta to 3B not a bad looking IF and might be better go get a young guy up the middle as we lack depth in our system at 2B and SS

by **MadThinker88** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:29 pm

The idea of Jason Donald interests me only because he is not eligible for the Rule 5 draft this year. The Tribe could deal for him and then see if he grabs ahold of the opportunity in Spring Training.

Unfortunely, I think it would take more then a Sowers/ Laffey/ Scott Lewis to get him and I am unwilling to deal off a Hector Rondon or Kelvin de la Cruz with one of them to get him.

by **gorman8621** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:49 pm

Not a bad idea but do you think Shap wants to go with someone that unproven? Our best option at 3B/2B is someone who was at Double A last year? That would be a nice sized risk by Shap and company...unless they get Donald and some solid semi-cheap vet to fill in til Donald is ready.

by **Hermie13** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:37 am

Possibly could deal for him only to then try and flip him over to the O's for Roberts. They want a young middle IFer for him and we're lacking in that department (unless we part with AC). Just a thought though, don't truly see it happening....but maybe.

Ruiz was amazing in the WS......but he really wasn't anything special during the regular season. The Phillies could stand to upgrade behind the plate. Plus if they lose Burrell, they'll need another big bat in that lineup. Shoppach could possibly be dealt for him and another prospect......but we'll see. Hard to tell how the new GM for the Phillies (Amaro) will handle this winter....

by **TheWord** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:56 pm

Hoynes reporting the O's want Fausto and Asdrubal for Roberts and his 1 year deal.

It's time to stop talking about Roberts, it is pointless if that is the asking price. Let's move on to realistic alternatives.

by **Hermie13** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:13 pm

Hoynes gets a LOT of things wrong though. No way are they asking for that for Roberts, and if they are they're nuts. That's more than what they were talking with the Cubs last year when he had 2 years left.

Do agree though, that if that is somehow the asking price, then move on.....but I think once they realize they can't resign him, the price will drop. Still a LOT of time till ST starts....

by **TheWord** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:17 pm

I don't see why we shouldn't believe it. It's been Angelos' MO pretty much his entire tenure.

Roberts is not a realistic option with Angelos as a GM, he thinks he's going to get a king's ransom for a one year rental. It's time to move on. They know they aren't going to resign him, it's never stopped them before.

The problem is, teams like Seattle and Houston have given in to Angelos' requests in the past by giving up much more than they should...which strengthens his position even more.

People are always going to overpay for people like Roberts, I'm thankful the Indians aren't one of them.

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