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Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

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Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:54 pm

According to Ken Rosenthal, the Tribe is one of 6-7 teams that have shown interest in Niemann/Hammel from the Rays.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9...illion-problem


No indication which player we showed interest in or at what time we did. Hammel wouldn't be a bad bullpen option (better than Jackson IMO). And Niemann still has a huge upside as a starter (but None as a bullpen guy). Could Lewis's bad start have scared the Tribe? I highly doubt it. But nothing is out of the question. Tribe did add a pitcher at the last minute last year with Breslow and cutting Fultz. Could cut Mujica and add one of those two pretty easily.....
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:59 pm

Even though Niemann is out of options I don't see the Rays giving him away on the cheap.

I think that rules the Tribe out..... I don't see them giving up some serious talent for a flier on a guy out of options, even though I agree with you that he could be a good starter option.
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:17 pm

I don't know....according to a few sources, the Rays inquired on a few prospects from the Padres for Niemann....highest ranked one was 14th in their system and lowest wasn't even top 30....and the Padres balked saying that was still too much (and the article made it sound like only one would be traded). And the Padres were ranked the 2nd WORST farm system in baseball.....

Being out of options, they won't get much for him. Phillips got us Stevens......that's about all the Rays will get for Niemann who has only 16 innings of ML experience.

No team will give up a solid prospect for a guy that unproven, no matter how highly touted he really is.


I could see the Tribe giving up a guy in the 20s maybe 30s of our top prospects. If the Rays get anything more than that I'll be absolutely shocked....unless they were to add something else in the deal.


I do like Hammel a lot though. Not sure exactly why the Rays aren't keeping him......

He threw 78 innings last year and wasn't that bad out of the pen. Can start in a pinch too. Probably better than Jackson at this point.

That being said, another guy I don't give up much for. Basically nothing more than what we gave up for Salas.



One thing me and a friend have bounced around for a lil while.....possibly having Andy Marte included in a deal for one of these two. Not just him, but him and possibly a PTBNL as well. The Rays are obviously set with Pena and Longoria at the corners at the ML level.....but at AAA, they lack many big bats, especially on the infield. marte could very likely be the starting 3B there. A change of scenery could get him going, especially facing some AAA hitting for a chance. He could then turn into a decent bench bat for the Rays at 1B/3B and even DH sometimes.


I doubt the Tribe will make a trade here....but still interesting that we've been linked.....
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:23 pm

Also to note, Rosenthal mentioned that hte Rays could cut Lance Cormier to keep both guys.....

But Cormier has pitched in 10 games this spring (14.2 IP) and has a 1.23 ERA with 10 strikeouts and only 2 walks. If they do cut him (which I doubt).....wouldn't be a bad guy to look at as well.....

He's only 28 and was 'respectable' in the O's pen (Masa-like numbers) and another guy that could start in a pinch and go multiple innings if needed....
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby artgold » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:37 am

Oooooh, I'd like to get Niemann, for the right price. I'd be willing to discuss two prospects in the 20-30 range, which are still good players with the Indians depth.
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:51 am

artgold wrote:Oooooh, I'd like to get Niemann, for the right price. I'd be willing to discuss two prospects in the 20-30 range, which are still good players with the Indians depth.

Why Art? He's out of options so you have to put him on the 25 man. It really does no good to stash him so you must plan on replacing someone in the rotation. From what the local papers here say, they wanted 3 young non-rostered prospects including a #7. That means someone like De La. I know he was a high draft choice who has been highly rated but he is not young. I certainly would not give up any of our top 15 prospects which seems to be what they have in mind. :s_scratchhead
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:45 am

indianinkslinger wrote:Why Art? He's out of options so you have to put him on the 25 man. It really does no good to stash him so you must plan on replacing someone in the rotation. From what the local papers here say, they wanted 3 young non-rostered prospects including a #7. That means someone like De La. I know he was a high draft choice who has been highly rated but he is not young. I certainly would not give up any of our top 15 prospects which seems to be what they have in mind. :s_scratchhead


yeah I agree with indiansink.

I was thinking 'maybe' Meloan....but even that I thought would probably be too much for Niemann at this point. He has great potential....but 16 innings of ML experience and only a decent year in AAA last season (nothing overly spectacular) does NOT warrant a high prospect when he's out of options.

I think someone like Ryan Miller would be more appropriate and all the Tribe would really offer. Something along the lines of Anthony Reyes (also out of options). And at least Reyes had some success at the ML level (Game 1 winner in a World Series).

If the Rays think they'll get 3 players including a #7 for Niemann then their GM is off his meds. There is no way any team gives that up, especially when the Padres think a 14 is too much, and they need pitchers in the worst way.
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:28 am

Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Why Art? He's out of options so you have to put him on the 25 man. It really does no good to stash him so you must plan on replacing someone in the rotation. From what the local papers here say, they wanted 3 young non-rostered prospects including a #7. That means someone like De La. I know he was a high draft choice who has been highly rated but he is not young. I certainly would not give up any of our top 15 prospects which seems to be what they have in mind. :s_scratchhead


yeah I agree with indiansink.

I was thinking 'maybe' Meloan....but even that I thought would probably be too much for Niemann at this point. He has great potential....but 16 innings of ML experience and only a decent year in AAA last season (nothing overly spectacular) does NOT warrant a high prospect when he's out of options.

I think someone like Ryan Miller would be more appropriate and all the Tribe would really offer. Something along the lines of Anthony Reyes (also out of options). And at least Reyes had some success at the ML level (Game 1 winner in a World Series).

If the Rays think they'll get 3 players including a #7 for Niemann then their GM is off his meds. There is no way any team gives that up, especially when the Padres think a 14 is too much, and they need pitchers in the worst way.

I just looked at the BA book and concluded your 14 and my 7 are the same guy, Simon Castro. He is #7 on the Padre list of their own prospects. haven't seen him so I cannot say one way or the other. Word is one of the others was Cole Figueroa, another young potential talent. Brain cramp prevents me from remembering the third.

As far as Meloan or Reyes goes, I am not sure the Rays would be interested since they purportedly told the Pads they didn't have roster spots.
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:44 am

indianinkslinger wrote:I just looked at the BA book and concluded your 14 and my 7 are the same guy, Simon Castro. He is #7 on the Padre list of their own prospects. haven't seen him so I cannot say one way or the other. Word is one of the others was Cole Figueroa, another young potential talent. Brain cramp prevents me from remembering the third.

As far as Meloan or Reyes goes, I am not sure the Rays would be interested since they purportedly told the Pads they didn't have roster spots.


hmm, weird. The article I read said Castro was 14.....wonder where that number game from then if he's actually #7....

In any case, #7 on the Padres list doesn't equal #7 on the Indians list. And if you are talking about the Padres players, here's what I found:

The Padres have shown interest in trading for starting pitcher Jeff Niemann, a No. 5 candidate for the Tampa Bay Rays.

In return, the defending American League champions have inquired about Padres prospects Simon Castro, Wynn Pelzer, Juedy Valdez and Nick Schmidt. The Padres have deemed the price too high. Niemann is out of minor league options, reducing the Rays'trade leverage.


Those are the four names mentioned from the Rays side....not sure how legit it is though.....


Also to clarify, i was NOT saying trade Reyes to the Rays. I was comparing Niemann's trade value to that of Reyes.


Meloan would fit with the Rays though as he's got options. Unless they need a 40-man spot for Isrinhausen I guess.....


Really the only way the Rays will get much for Niemann (or Hammel) is to add someone like Reid Brignac to the deal....
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:53 am

Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:I just looked at the BA book and concluded your 14 and my 7 are the same guy, Simon Castro. He is #7 on the Padre list of their own prospects. haven't seen him so I cannot say one way or the other. Word is one of the others was Cole Figueroa, another young potential talent. Brain cramp prevents me from remembering the third.

As far as Meloan or Reyes goes, I am not sure the Rays would be interested since they purportedly told the Pads they didn't have roster spots.


hmm, weird. The article I read said Castro was 14.....wonder where that number game from then if he's actually #7....

In any case, #7 on the Padres list doesn't equal #7 on the Indians list. And if you are talking about the Padres players, here's what I found:

The Padres have shown interest in trading for starting pitcher Jeff Niemann, a No. 5 candidate for the Tampa Bay Rays.

In return, the defending American League champions have inquired about Padres prospects Simon Castro, Wynn Pelzer, Juedy Valdez and Nick Schmidt. The Padres have deemed the price too high. Niemann is out of minor league options, reducing the Rays'trade leverage.


Those are the four names mentioned from the Rays side....not sure how legit it is though.....


Also to clarify, i was NOT saying trade Reyes to the Rays. I was comparing Niemann's trade value to that of Reyes.


Meloan would fit with the Rays though as he's got options. Unless they need a 40-man spot for Isrinhausen I guess.....


Really the only way the Rays will get much for Niemann (or Hammel) is to add someone like Reid Brignac to the deal....

Apologize for the intellectual shortcoming of my sentence. Should have said he was #14 on BA, not just that I had read it.

Misunderstood your point on Reyes.
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby artgold » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:09 am

I was thinking that the Rays lack OF batting, even after acquiring Burrell. I would think players such as Jordan Brown (20)/Chris Gimenez (18)/Stephen Head (34), all who have played a little OF and shown decent batting abilities, might be of interest. They not only have a thin major league OF, their minor league OF prospects leave a lot to be desired. Add in a former high draft pick who has had some minor league success as a pitcher, such as Steven Wright, and perhaps you have the basis for discussing a deal.

You could also look at guys like Morris, Miller or Pena to help close the deal too.
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:22 am

artgold wrote:I was thinking that the Rays lack OF batting, even after acquiring Burrell. I would think players such as Jordan Brown (20)/Chris Gimenez (18)/Stephen Head (34), all who have played a little OF and shown decent batting abilities, might be of interest. They not only have a thin major league OF, their minor league OF prospects leave a lot to be desired. Add in a former high draft pick who has had some minor league success as a pitcher, such as Steven Wright, and perhaps you have the basis for discussing a deal.

You could also look at guys like Morris, Miller or Pena to help close the deal too.


Brown could be a possibilty as he's not on the 40-man. I actually thought of Gimenez a month and a half ago and stated he'd be a guy to look to trade.....but after his performance this spring, I've reconsidered. I think he'd be too much to give up for a guy out of options. Head is nursing an injury...so that kind of muddies up that idea....but could work with a guy like Ryan Morris or Ryan Miller.

Back to Gimenez....he'd be a PERFECT fit for the Rays......but again, just seems like too much to give up IMO....not to mention Tony may cry if that trade happened, lol (just kidding) ;)

The Rays do actually have some decent OF depth though. They have Perez and Joyce for RF. Plus Burrell can still play the OF. Also one of their top prospects is Desmond Jennings. He could be up in 2010 playing CF (moving Upton to RF).


The Rays are though thin in position players at a lot of positions in the minors (other than SS really). Not a ton of power down there really. Pitching wise they may be the deepest in all of baseball though.....
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby artgold » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:10 am

I look at Matt Joyce and Fernando Perez and don't see much there. Perez has hit for a decent average in the minors, but little power and a lot of K's. Also, his BB/K rate in the minors was deteriorating as he advanced, never a good sign. Add in the fact that he is 26, and you see some limits in a position that is supposed to be your offense generator. Looking at Joyce, I see decent power but poor BA, and looking at his minor league splits I don't see anything indicating he will be a good platoon batter, he doesn't hit well in a lefty/righty split.

Pat Burrell is rapidly getting old. I watch about 50-60 Phillies games a year, and am very familiar with their organization. They generally thought that he was on the border of significant skill erosion. He's only hit above .258 once in the past 6 seasons. After the All Star break, he hit a whopping .215 last season, plus .071 in the World Series. He is exceptionally slow, despite not being at all overweight.

Going back to their current OF prospects, their BA top rated OF prospect is Desmond Jennings, who has had no success over low A ball, missing almost all of last year due to multiple injuries. Their next highest OF prospect, after Perez (discussed in first paragraph) is at #19.
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:27 am

Perez isn't a power guy. He's a CFer by trade and his skills are to get on base and use his speed to score runs. He's out 4-5 months though with a wrist injury.....which hurts a bit for the Rays.

Joyce hit 25 HRs last year between AAA and the ML....while playing in Detroit's big park. He could put up 20-25 in TB. So what if he only hits .250. He could be just as good as a francisco if not better.

I'm not saying either of those two guys are studs and gonna be starting OFers for a long time in TB....but they are both better right now than Head or Brown is the point. Neither Brown nor Head would do much for the Rays since they have Joyce and also Zobrist (a super utility guy that hit 12 HRs last year) on the team already.

Not sure what Burrell's age has to do with anything. He's gonna be their DH for the 2 years he's there. That was the best pickup of the winter IMO. He was only getting old in the OF (which isn't his natural position...1B was). As a DH he'll be able to focus on hitting more.


And again, not sure what your point is about Jennings. He's still a far better prospect than Head or Brown. Even being injured all of last year is very highly touted. Had 45 SBs in 2007. He's a legit CF prospect and should shoot through the Rays system pretty quick this year.


And again, not saying the Rays have 'great' OFers other than Crawford and Upton. Just that they aren't as thin as you're making them out to be. Brown or Head would be decent adds (if you can even consider Brown an OFer still).....but would still be behind a lot of guys in the OF rotation. They stil have the two Gabes as well (Gross and Kapler)......

There actually is likely a bigger need on the infield as I said. Rigth now they have Zobrist and Aybar....and that's it. Reid Brignac struggled last year and is the most ready infielder in the minors and on the 40-man roster.....
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby jellis » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:10 pm

If it was anyone other than Rosenthal I would be suspicious of this being a media rumor, with price not making the team I would think they have the perfect chance to let Neimann play for a month or so and see what he can do. I still cant see him going for less than derosa, I dont see how a young pitcher whose top ten spec in one of the top 5 systems is worth a pair of 20's level specs which are typically players that seem to have only a 60% chance of ever making the majors let alone contributing
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:05 pm

jellis wrote:If it was anyone other than Rosenthal I would be suspicious of this being a media rumor, with price not making the team I would think they have the perfect chance to let Neimann play for a month or so and see what he can do. I still cant see him going for less than derosa, I dont see how a young pitcher whose top ten spec in one of the top 5 systems is worth a pair of 20's level specs which are typically players that seem to have only a 60% chance of ever making the majors let alone contributing


They have Hammel who is out of options too. Only one can be in the rotation. There is a chance Hammel can go to the pen.....but even that is iffy as they have a pretty full bullpen already.

Hammel has had the better spring than Niemann and is the front runner for the 5th spot according to nearly every source coming out of TB.

I can very easily see Niemann going for less than DeRosa and amost guarantee it. Niemann has 16 innings at the ML level. DeRosa had back-to-back 20 HR seasons. It doesn't matter how highly rated a guy is, once he's out of options, the team's leverage (in this case the Rays) is greatly diminished in trade talks.

This is especially the case with Niemann since he struggles so much working out of the pen (unlike Hammel)....

I will actually be suprised if Niemann gets more than what we gave up for Reyes last summer.....but we'll see. Both Niemann and Hammel are scheduled to pitch a minor league game on Sunday for the Rays....
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby TheWord » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:10 pm

Hammel was moved to Colorado, just to update the discussion.
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:22 pm

TheWord wrote:Hammel was moved to Colorado, just to update the discussion.

Isn't this a non-discussion? Neimann is Tampa's fifth starter according to an interivew with him and Rays management said this was decided some time ago. Might not last long IMO and we can revisit this later when Price moves up but for now looks completely decided. :s_dance
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Re: Tribe interested in Niemann or Hammel?

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:26 am

indianinkslinger wrote:
TheWord wrote:Hammel was moved to Colorado, just to update the discussion.

Isn't this a non-discussion? Neimann is Tampa's fifth starter according to an interivew with him and Rays management said this was decided some time ago. Might not last long IMO and we can revisit this later when Price moves up but for now looks completely decided. :s_dance


Sounds fishy to me but may be the case. Hammel looked much better this spring and played ALL of last year at the ML level. Even got more of the starts when Kazmir was hurt than Niemann. And every source in TB said that Hammel was the guy that was gonna be the 5th starter....

But why not say Niemann was the guy all along if he is the 5th starter now?


My guess is the offeres for Niemann were far less than Hammel, who has more experience and more versatility in his ability to start or come out of the pen.

You know a guy's value is low when the pitching starved Padres won't give up so-so prospects for him......


Niemann likely will be back on the block in a month or two if not sooner. I find it hard to believe the Rays will keep Price down for too long unless he absolutely implodes down there.....
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