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Seattle passed on Francisco...

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Seattle passed on Francisco...

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:30 pm

Found this pretty interesting. Apparently the Tribe tried to trade Francisco instead of Gutierrez.....

Here's the link: http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/94455


Longer story in the plain dealer. Mostly about what Francisco and his big difference in pre/post all-star splits. What can we expect from him.....I'm guessing the bench by the All-Star game this year but hope I'm wrong....
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Re: Seattle passed on Francisco...

Postby npc29 » Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:58 pm

Damn....

I wouldn't have minded that. With our outfield depth in the minors, Gutierrez translates to a better fourth outfielder anyway.
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Re: Seattle passed on Francisco...

Postby jellis » Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:42 pm

still a lot to be said for the roster flexibility of Francisco dont forget he still has options left
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Re: Seattle passed on Francisco...

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:39 am

jellis wrote:still a lot to be said for the roster flexibility of Francisco dont forget he still has options left


he has one.....and for him to even need to use means that he's struggling a ton this year.....so hopefully it's a moot point....
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Re: Seattle passed on Francisco...

Postby artgold » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:03 pm

I'd rather have Francisco, I still think he will be a decent corner OFer. I have more confidence in Francisco than Gut, though I think Gut has the potential for that one "spectacular" season.
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Re: Seattle passed on Francisco...

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:17 am

artgold wrote:I'd rather have Francisco, I still think he will be a decent corner OFer. I have more confidence in Francisco than Gut, though I think Gut has the potential for that one "spectacular" season.


In CF, I think Gut is gonna turn into a mini star out in Seattle. I can see multiple 20-20 seasons from him and a few Gold Gloves.


Francisco I see maybe one 20 HR season and that's it.


But again, moot point I guess. The trade is done....I do like it a bit still. I think Valbuena can be a solid contributor and Smith appears ready to really help the pen....
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Re: Seattle passed on Francisco...

Postby toledobuck » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:20 am

Bennie is a much better offensive player. Gutz is better in the field. Who know, maybe Gutz will get his hitting together to match his great defensive play. He certainly is off to a great start in spring training this year with the Mariners. With the Tribe's fantastic OF depth, there really is no consequence for giving up Gutz instead of Francisco.
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Re: Seattle passed on Francisco...

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:23 am

toledobuck wrote:Bennie is a much better offensive player. Gutz is better in the field. Who know, maybe Gutz will get his hitting together to match his great defensive play. He certainly is off to a great start in spring training this year with the Mariners. With the Tribe's fantastic OF depth, there really is no consequence for giving up Gutz instead of Francisco.


Depends what you look at. You take out Francisco's 1-2 week stint in 2007 and hot start in 2008 and he's been absolutely TERRIBLE offensively....

Benny needs to get his hitting together just as much as Gut does....
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Re: Seattle passed on Francisco...

Postby toledobuck » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:54 am

look at the history of Ben versus Gutz and you will see who the better offensive player is. I do not think there is any question that Ben is the better offensive player to date. However, that can change in time with development.
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Re: Seattle passed on Francisco...

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:10 am

Ben hit .266 with a .770 OPS in 2008 along with 15 HRs and 4 SBs in 447 at-bats.

Gut hit .266 with a .790 OPS in 2007 along with 13 HRs and 8 SBs in only 271 at-bats.

So looking at the history of each player's only 'good' year.....Gut was the better offensive performer....


Gut obviously struggled in 2008, but he's younger and the better all-around hitter. Ben is so overrated it sickens me. And most teams would agree, or they'd have wanted Francisco instead of Gut.....

Gut's career numbers are worse than Francisco's....but Gut was also playing at a younger age than Francisco (who is older than all our OFers other than Dellucci).
Last edited by Hermie13 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Seattle passed on Francisco...

Postby toledobuck » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:11 am

Hermie, you are absolutely correct. I stand corrected. There total minor league and major league stats I looked on Baseball Cube (see below) are almost identical. Over their full career, Bennie has slightly better numbers but they are almost identical. I was just thinking instead of doing the research.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/compare.asp
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Re: Seattle passed on Francisco...

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:15 am

toledobuck wrote:Hermie, you are absolutely correct. I stand corrected. There total minor league and major league stats I looked on Baseball Cube (see below) are almost identical. Over their full career, Bennie has slightly better numbers but they are almost identical. I was just thinking instead of doing the research.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/compare.asp


yeah. I really, really hope I'm wrong about Francisco......but I'll be a bit suprised if he's starting in LF come June/July for the tribe.....

He's a place holder til LaPorta is ready.....nothing more really.
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Re: Seattle passed on Francisco...

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:22 am

I will say this though about Francisco.....he has proven a lot of critics wrong with his ability to hit lefties in the MLs. In the minors he was absolutely terrible against them but has been pretty good (even better than against righties) against them.

So maybe there's some hope yet for him.....
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Re: Seattle passed on Francisco...

Postby jellis » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:40 pm

hes the LF till laporta is ready then we cut delluci, laporta takes his palce on the 40 and 25 man roster and benny takes loochs place as 4th OF, this has to be the plan right?
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Re: Seattle passed on Francisco...

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:14 am

jellis wrote:hes the LF till laporta is ready then we cut delluci, laporta takes his palce on the 40 and 25 man roster and benny takes loochs place as 4th OF, this has to be the plan right?


eh, pretty much. though LaPorta could take Westbrook's 40-man spot.....but I agree, I see Looch getting cut unless Choo ends up on the DL (which doesn't sound likely thankfully).
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