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Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby npc29 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:25 am

With Crede going to Minnesota, the Giants could easily take a chance on Marte.
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:22 pm

First off, while Salas *may* be a AAAA guy...the fact is he was not a free agent and therefore the option to sign him to a minor league deal was not an option. The Indians traded for him, which means a team higher in the waiver order claimed him that they wanted to trump. Had no one claimed him before the Indians spot in the waiver order came up they could have claimed him without making the trade (while still DFAing Marte). In this instance, because he was not a free agent and was to be claimed by someone else, he could NOT be signed to a minor league deal and the Indians had to pay the price of giving up a low level prospect.

Also, no word yet, but it appears Marte cleared waivers. Should be interesting to see what the Indians do with him....if they outright release him or keep him around.

Last, I for one do not believe there is such a thing as too much pitching. Sure, we look to be very deep in the bullpen. But has everyone forgot about the injury issues the likes of Wood, Miller, and Sipp have had recently? The performance issues of Betancourt last year? And that someone like a Scott Roehl was likely to be slotted in the Triple-A Columbus bullpen? All these reasons make me happy we are adding more depth to the bullpen. I think this guy, unlike with a lot of minor league retreads they sign, could help us this year in some capacity.
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:29 pm

Consigliere wrote:First off, while Salas *may* be a AAAA guy...the fact is he was not a free agent and therefore the option to sign him to a minor league deal was not an option. The Indians traded for him, which means a team higher in the waiver order claimed him that they wanted to trump. Had no one claimed him before the Indians spot in the waiver order came up they could have claimed him without making the trade (while still DFAing Marte). In this instance, because he was not a free agent and was to be claimed by someone else, he could NOT be signed to a minor league deal and the Indians had to pay the price of giving up a low level prospect.

Also, no word yet, but it appears Marte cleared waivers. Should be interesting to see what the Indians do with him....if they outright release him or keep him around.

Last, I for one do not believe there is such a thing as too much pitching. Sure, we look to be very deep in the bullpen. But has everyone forgot about the injury issues the likes of Wood, Miller, and Sipp have had recently? The performance issues of Betancourt last year? And that someone like a Scott Roehl was likely to be slotted in the Triple-A Columbus bullpen? All these reasons make me happy we are adding more depth to the bullpen. I think this guy, unlike with a lot of minor league retreads they sign, could help us this year in some capacity.

Nice to see that a lot of the misinformation about the transaction cleared up with your post. I thought this was a solid deal and still think so. Marte is a non-issue and we traded the 82nd best prospect for someone better.

About Marte, I read somewhere (don't have a site) that he is trashing the Indians vociferously for DFAing him. If true, that is real stupid and somewhat out of character, IMO. Any truth to this as far as you know?
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby jellis » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:54 pm

Consigliere wrote:First off, while Salas *may* be a AAAA guy...the fact is he was not a free agent and therefore the option to sign him to a minor league deal was not an option. The Indians traded for him, which means a team higher in the waiver order claimed him that they wanted to trump. Had no one claimed him before the Indians spot in the waiver order came up they could have claimed him without making the trade (while still DFAing Marte). In this instance, because he was not a free agent and was to be claimed by someone else, he could NOT be signed to a minor league deal and the Indians had to pay the price of giving up a low level prospect.

Also, no word yet, but it appears Marte cleared waivers. Should be interesting to see what the Indians do with him....if they outright release him or keep him around.

Last, I for one do not believe there is such a thing as too much pitching. Sure, we look to be very deep in the bullpen. But has everyone forgot about the injury issues the likes of Wood, Miller, and Sipp have had recently? The performance issues of Betancourt last year? And that someone like a Scott Roehl was likely to be slotted in the Triple-A Columbus bullpen? All these reasons make me happy we are adding more depth to the bullpen. I think this guy, unlike with a lot of minor league retreads they sign, could help us this year in some capacity.



great point about another team claiming him it had slipped my mind, I for one am not shocked that no one claimed marte I posted earlier I didnt think anyone would. Salas is a nice option. Sipp is recovering, Miller is a wild card, Newsom seems to be a bit of an after thought, outside of Meloan who in AAA is really a slam dunk to help this year. Depth is always good and if Salas ends up pitching well he could always be flipped for more value
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby npc29 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:51 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:About Marte, I read somewhere (don't have a site) that he is trashing the Indians vociferously for DFAing him. If true, that is real stupid and somewhat out of character, IMO. Any truth to this as far as you know?


While it does sound a little out of character, the way Marte has handled himself since coming over is rather disappointing. This is a kid who's been told to get into camp in better shape by Eric Wedge, and he's just not done it. So in away, if he is out there throwing shots towards the Indians, I'm not totally shocked, given his work ethic, which I don't believe is very strong. I mean even Castrovince hinted at it recently by saying Fausto was a visitor at the "Andy Marte Buffet". Doesn't sound like he's really that dedicated.

I'd be the first to defend Marte and say that he needed consistent playing time to prove himself.. But now that he got it and did nothing but look below average, I think he's out of excuses. I really hope he isn't trashing the organization. If so, he'll finally develop a following, but not the kind you like.
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:53 am

Consigliere wrote:First off, while Salas *may* be a AAAA guy...the fact is he was not a free agent and therefore the option to sign him to a minor league deal was not an option. The Indians traded for him, which means a team higher in the waiver order claimed him that they wanted to trump. Had no one claimed him before the Indians spot in the waiver order came up they could have claimed him without making the trade (while still DFAing Marte). In this instance, because he was not a free agent and was to be claimed by someone else, he could NOT be signed to a minor league deal and the Indians had to pay the price of giving up a low level prospect.

Also, no word yet, but it appears Marte cleared waivers. Should be interesting to see what the Indians do with him....if they outright release him or keep him around.

Last, I for one do not believe there is such a thing as too much pitching. Sure, we look to be very deep in the bullpen. But has everyone forgot about the injury issues the likes of Wood, Miller, and Sipp have had recently? The performance issues of Betancourt last year? And that someone like a Scott Roehl was likely to be slotted in the Triple-A Columbus bullpen? All these reasons make me happy we are adding more depth to the bullpen. I think this guy, unlike with a lot of minor league retreads they sign, could help us this year in some capacity.


ha, nope. Mentioned nearly the exact same thing in my post, lol :s_drinks
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:02 am

dnosco wrote:More like, much like they liked Mota's arm, much like they liked Hernandez's arm, much like they like Scott Stewart's arm, much like they liked RIncon's arm last year, etc.

Regarding the AAA depth, I think you minimize Rundles and I think Sipp is exactly what he should be at this point, a question mark with ML upside, much like Salas (but with Sipp having MUCH more upside) and all of our AAAA minor league signees plus Meloan, Miller and Mujica.


nope, nothing like that. We didn't 'like' Mota's arm....we actually didn't like it enough to get the Red Sox to throw in Newom because we had concerns over his arm health. Rincon was a minor league signing and we needed relievers last year. Hernandez was obviously a bad signing...but if he had only signed for the league minimum (as Salas will make) then there wouldn't have been an issue there. The stewart deal was.....well bad to put it nicely. But we did need a lefty at the time (much like we needed Rincon). Bad deal though.


The Salas signing is nothing like any of those though. Makes the league minimum, has a minor league option, and cost us NOTHING but a dime a dozen prospect.

I may be minimizing Rundles.....but you are vastly minimizing Salas. Sipp is 25 already and will be 26 this summer....yet never pitched above AA in his life.......he's NOT where he should be at this point. Now obviously the arm injury really slowed him down as he did look primed for a ML callup.....but he's definitely behind, and getting old for a prospect. And he does NOT have 'WAY' more upside than Salas. Both project as power pitchers out of the pen.....but nothing of 'superstar' status for either. I'd say Sipp has the slightly better upside though, but health is an issue at the moment with him.....

Salas was the Rays #12 prospect just a year ago......and that was the BEST farm system in baseball (argue all you want about those BA rankings if you must). I wouldn't be so quick to rule him out as 'nothing'......
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby jellis » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:23 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
dnosco wrote:More like, much like they liked Mota's arm, much like they liked Hernandez's arm, much like they like Scott Stewart's arm, much like they liked RIncon's arm last year, etc.

Regarding the AAA depth, I think you minimize Rundles and I think Sipp is exactly what he should be at this point, a question mark with ML upside, much like Salas (but with Sipp having MUCH more upside) and all of our AAAA minor league signees plus Meloan, Miller and Mujica.


nope, nothing like that. We didn't 'like' Mota's arm....we actually didn't like it enough to get the Red Sox to throw in Newom because we had concerns over his arm health. Rincon was a minor league signing and we needed relievers last year. Hernandez was obviously a bad signing...but if he had only signed for the league minimum (as Salas will make) then there wouldn't have been an issue there. The stewart deal was.....well bad to put it nicely. But we did need a lefty at the time (much like we needed Rincon). Bad deal though.


The Salas signing is nothing like any of those though. Makes the league minimum, has a minor league option, and cost us NOTHING but a dime a dozen prospect.

I may be minimizing Rundles.....but you are vastly minimizing Salas. Sipp is 25 already and will be 26 this summer....yet never pitched above AA in his life.......he's NOT where he should be at this point. Now obviously the arm injury really slowed him down as he did look primed for a ML callup.....but he's definitely behind, and getting old for a prospect. And he does NOT have 'WAY' more upside than Salas. Both project as power pitchers out of the pen.....but nothing of 'superstar' status for either. I'd say Sipp has the slightly better upside though, but health is an issue at the moment with him.....

Salas was the Rays #12 prospect just a year ago......and that was the BEST farm system in baseball (argue all you want about those BA rankings if you must). I wouldn't be so quick to rule him out as 'nothing'......



i would argue that sipp upside is way higher pre injury he was considered one of the top 5 cl specs in all of baseball, I agree with every other point. But I think at max talent Sipp is much better than salas, but Sipp has a lot more to prove before he can be counted on
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:50 pm

jellis wrote:i would argue that sipp upside is way higher pre injury he was considered one of the top 5 cl specs in all of baseball, I agree with every other point. But I think at max talent Sipp is much better than salas, but Sipp has a lot more to prove before he can be counted on


sadly though, Sipp did have the injury.....

And you might not have seen Salas at max talent yet. Sipp was a college pitcher.....he should be more advanced than what he is really. Salas on the other had has very little pitching experience. He was basically just up there throwing the ball as hard as he could til recently when he developed his slider. It's still a work in progress.

I'm very interested in seeign both those guys pitch though this year. Could easily see both in an Indians uniform this year. Their minor league numbers are pretty similar (high K-rates, low WHIPs and ERAs). Salas has more control issues though. If he gets those settled, watch out (yes, I realize that could be said for a lot of pitchers).
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby dnosco » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:03 pm

Hermie,

You keep minimizing the loss of Marte. It will most likely be Marte and Valasquez for Salas. Sorry, I don't like that but would be willing to accept it if...

...we didn't have a plethora of guys who could fill that 7th spot AND all the bullpen spots in Columbus.

Not saying I wasn't willing to lose the above two 'prospects' just that this move didn't make sense given what Salas is, which is a AAAA guy, at least right now.

And my comments about the other guys ARE valid. We liked all their arms AND that they are very similar to Salas. The salary is irrelevant to me, it is the clogging of the roster spot, a ML roster spot, the blocking of the guys we already have AND the loss of anything to get a AAAA guy that bothers me.
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby jellis » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:14 pm

dnosco wrote:Hermie,

You keep minimizing the loss of Marte. It will most likely be Marte and Valasquez for Salas. Sorry, I don't like that but would be willing to accept it if...

...we didn't have a plethora of guys who could fill that 7th spot AND all the bullpen spots in Columbus.

Not saying I wasn't willing to lose the above two 'prospects' just that this move didn't make sense given what Salas is, which is a AAAA guy, at least right now.

And my comments about the other guys ARE valid. We liked all their arms AND that they are very similar to Salas. The salary is irrelevant to me, it is the clogging of the roster spot, a ML roster spot, the blocking of the guys we already have AND the loss of anything to get a AAAA guy that bothers me.


cept he has already cleared waivers
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:32 pm

dnosco wrote:Hermie,

You keep minimizing the loss of Marte. It will most likely be Marte and Valasquez for Salas. Sorry, I don't like that but would be willing to accept it if...

...we didn't have a plethora of guys who could fill that 7th spot AND all the bullpen spots in Columbus.

Not saying I wasn't willing to lose the above two 'prospects' just that this move didn't make sense given what Salas is, which is a AAAA guy, at least right now.

And my comments about the other guys ARE valid. We liked all their arms AND that they are very similar to Salas. The salary is irrelevant to me, it is the clogging of the roster spot, a ML roster spot, the blocking of the guys we already have AND the loss of anything to get a AAAA guy that bothers me.


We have about 5 guys that can fill the last bench spot too.....Marte isn't needed....in fact, less needed than Salas.

no, you're comments aren't valid. NONE of the guys you mentioned had K-rates anywhere close to Salas's or had an upside anywhere close to his when we got them.

And why exactly is the salary irrelevant? again, you complain about signing prospects to signing bonus but don't care about ML salaries? alright.....

Marte was clogging a roster spot, not Salas.
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby dnosco » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:08 pm

Wait a minute. Be specific instead of generalizing my position. I LOVE spending money on prospects. It can't be ridiculous prospects like the Czech kid, however. Do you realize he can't even play full time for 3 more years?

You are right. Marte isn't needed. But he and Salas are in the same boat as far as being needed here.

There are so few "good arms" in baseball one would guess that Tampa Bay either would have kept him on their 40 or, if their organization has so many top players that they would have been able to get more for him, don't you think.

Hey, no problem getting rid of Marte and Valazquez, just don't like bringing in the nth redundancy, a 30 year old AAAA reliever, for those two.
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:35 pm

dnosco wrote:Wait a minute. Be specific instead of generalizing my position. I LOVE spending money on prospects. It can't be ridiculous prospects like the Czech kid, however. Do you realize he can't even play full time for 3 more years?

You are right. Marte isn't needed. But he and Salas are in the same boat as far as being needed here.

There are so few "good arms" in baseball one would guess that Tampa Bay either would have kept him on their 40 or, if their organization has so many top players that they would have been able to get more for him, don't you think.

Hey, no problem getting rid of Marte and Valazquez, just don't like bringing in the nth redundancy, a 30 year old AAAA reliever, for those two.


O alright, i get it. They can only spend money on the prospects YOU think are worth it.....makes sense.....

It doesn't matter than he's not gonna play for 3 years.....though I haven't read anything that said 3 years. I read 2 but whatever. Many latino prospects don't play ball in the US til they're 18 or 19.....same as what this kid will do.


And no, Salas is needed much more than Marte. Injuries are MUCH more likely to weaken the bullpen than our bench/utility infielders. And again, I won't be that shocked if Salas makes this club out of spring training.


And again, the one of the main reasons I've read that the Rays optioned him was they had some conflicts with him (much like Reyes and the Cards....which is why we got him so cheap). They were upset that he lied about his age and that he had the visa issues last year.

And since the designated him, no, they could NOT get more for him. It was trade him for what we offered or lose him for nothing.
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby npc29 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:07 pm

According to Anthony Castrovince, Marte is now on waivers and teams have till Wednesday to claim him.
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:57 am

Anyone know what teams have an open 40-man roster spot currently? Not sure a team would risk losing another player for him.....but maybe.....
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby martyinnewyork » Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:44 pm

I know a few beer league teams are taking a long, hard look...
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby jellis » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:29 pm

martyinnewyork wrote:I know a few beer league teams are taking a long, hard look...


he might just work out for one of those teams but only in the 5th or 6th spot in the order
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby dnosco » Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:24 am

jellis wrote:
dnosco wrote:Hermie,

You keep minimizing the loss of Marte. It will most likely be Marte and Valasquez for Salas. Sorry, I don't like that but would be willing to accept it if...

...we didn't have a plethora of guys who could fill that 7th spot AND all the bullpen spots in Columbus.

Not saying I wasn't willing to lose the above two 'prospects' just that this move didn't make sense given what Salas is, which is a AAAA guy, at least right now.

And my comments about the other guys ARE valid. We liked all their arms AND that they are very similar to Salas. The salary is irrelevant to me, it is the clogging of the roster spot, a ML roster spot, the blocking of the guys we already have AND the loss of anything to get a AAAA guy that bothers me.


cept he has already cleared waivers


Obviously not true when I wrote this. Didn't know he could clear waivers until tomorrow. Now, with his experience does he HAVE to accept this assignment or can he opt for free agency? I am thinking he can opt based on his years of service in professional baseball and maybe even in the majors but I am too lazy to do the research to verify that.
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby jellis » Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:29 am

dnosco wrote:
jellis wrote:
dnosco wrote:Hermie,

You keep minimizing the loss of Marte. It will most likely be Marte and Valasquez for Salas. Sorry, I don't like that but would be willing to accept it if...

...we didn't have a plethora of guys who could fill that 7th spot AND all the bullpen spots in Columbus.

Not saying I wasn't willing to lose the above two 'prospects' just that this move didn't make sense given what Salas is, which is a AAAA guy, at least right now.

And my comments about the other guys ARE valid. We liked all their arms AND that they are very similar to Salas. The salary is irrelevant to me, it is the clogging of the roster spot, a ML roster spot, the blocking of the guys we already have AND the loss of anything to get a AAAA guy that bothers me.


cept he has already cleared waivers


Obviously not true when I wrote this. Didn't know he could clear waivers until tomorrow. Now, with his experience does he HAVE to accept this assignment or can he opt for free agency? I am thinking he can opt based on his years of service in professional baseball and maybe even in the majors but I am too lazy to do the research to verify that.


turns out I was wrong then anyways he might not have cleared yet, but I dont think he has enough time to to opt out. Its about major league service time and he doesnt even have 2 years yet
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:12 am

Marte can't opt out. If he clears waivers, unless the Indians release him, he has to accept his outright assignment to Columbus. Here is the rule:

If the player is not claimed (clears waivers), the club may option him or assign him outright to the minor leagues, though he must continue to be paid according to the terms of his contract. A player may be assigned outright to the minors only once in his career without his permission. Thereafter, he may either 1) reject the assignment and become a free agent, or 2) accept the assignment and become a free agent at the end of the season if he’s not back on the 40-man roster. Additionally, player with 3 years of major league service may refuse an outright assignment and choose to become a free agent, regardless of whether he has been sent outright to the minors previously. A player with 5 years of major league service time who refuses an outright assignment is entitled to the money due according to the terms of his contract.
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby artgold » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:01 am

I still look at the profile of the player, and in reviewing Marte I just don't see anything beyond a marginal major league player. His AB/K and BB/K rates haven't improved at all in seven years. The guy is a career .271 hitter in the minors, hardly something to get excited about. The power has always been there, but nothing that indicates a major contributor.

Maybe a Pedro Feliz if everything works out just fine, which translates into a .250/.290/.430 line. Frankly, I'd give him no better than a 1 in 3 odds of reaching Feliz level performance.
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:22 am

Personally though, I'd take Pedro Feliz numbers (which are a bit like Joe Crede numbers as well), especially if Peralta remains at SS. Peralta's defensive shortcoming will be much less noticable with a glove like Marte's at 3B as opposed to a potential Hodges or Blake of the past. The reason Feliz keeps his job with the 'offensive' numbers he has is thanks in large part to his solid D (and his ability to hit a long ball every now and then). Same goes for Crede. If these guys were bad defensive 3B's they'd be bench guys and nothing more.

I do agree though, that it'll be tough for Marte to reach even Feliz status. He does have power as displayed in the minors......needs to finally translate that to the MLs though......

Getting demoted to the minors may just give him a bad attitude.....or could be the slap in the face that knocks him out of this 4 year slump he's been in.....time will tell I suppose.....
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby webba2000 » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:06 pm

At what time is the deadline for teams to claim Marte?
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:06 pm

Sometime today (sorry, don't know the exact time....best guess is one of 12pm, 3pm or 6pm today).
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby dnosco » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:18 pm

Tony,

Can't 6 year minor league free agents opt out, as well? I think Marte fits that criteria.
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Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:55 pm

Marte just cleared waivers.....and was outrighted to Columbus. He will be back in major league camp on Thursday as a non-roster invitee.

(Also, Denny, a six year free agent would not be able to refuse an assignment....it is all based on ML service time)
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:24 pm

Good to hear. I really hope the Tribe tries him out at 2B some. I think he could become a decent, servicable utility guy if he can learn to play there. be a bit of a Ronnie Belliard type.

3B/1B/DH seem pretty packed at Columbus too.....
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby dnosco » Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:44 pm

I would like to see them look at him as a super utility guy: 2B, 1B, 3B, LF and RF.
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:52 pm

The fact that all 29 other major league clubs passed on him by not claiming him pretty much nails it home that no one believes he has any value at the moment as a major league caliber player. Sure, if he were a street free agent lots of teams would be in line to probably sign him to a non-roster deal.....but no one wants him on their 40-man roster as a potential major league option. Not even on a trial basis in spring training for six weeks.

If that ain't damning, I don't know what is.

I'm having trouble figuring out how Marte fits in Columbus. Without question, Wes Hodges will be the regular 3B, and I guess Marte could split time at 3B, 1B and DH. Though, the Indians are also stacked at 1B with Jordan Brown, Michael Aubrey and Stephen Head. I think once the end of spring camp arrives, one of Aubrey/Marte are not in the organization anymore.
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:06 pm

Consigliere wrote:The fact that all 29 other major league clubs passed on him by not claiming him pretty much nails it home that no one believes he has any value at the moment as a major league caliber player. Sure, if he were a street free agent lots of teams would be in line to probably sign him to a non-roster deal.....but no one wants him on their 40-man roster as a potential major league option. Not even on a trial basis in spring training for six weeks.

If that ain't damning, I don't know what is.

I'm having trouble figuring out how Marte fits in Columbus. Without question, Wes Hodges will be the regular 3B, and I guess Marte could split time at 3B, 1B and DH. Though, the Indians are also stacked at 1B with Jordan Brown, Michael Aubrey and Stephen Head. I think once the end of spring camp arrives, one of Aubrey/Marte are not in the organization anymore.


eh, could have been worse......Tribe could have said don't come back to camp, lol. But yeah get what you're saying, doesn't look good for him.


I agree with the last paragraph, which is why I think 2B should be a focal point for him this spring. We've got Valbuena who is obviously gonna start there.....then SS is what? A 'battle' between Merchan, Graffanino, and Valdez......one would assume not all 3 make the team.

You only have 3 bench players listed on the AAA depth chart (though before the Graffanino signing). Marte fits in on that bench one would think.....especially if he can play either 2B or the OF as dennis suggested.


I'd be a bit suprised if the Tribe cut one of Marte or Aubrey.....though not overly....


bit of a 'crazy' idea......send Marte to Akron to start the year. Let him play 3B and DH some there. See if he can't get his confidence back playing down there for a month or two. I mean, Trevor Crowe is literally the exact same age as Marte (Crowe is 4 days older is the only difference) and was in Akron to start last year (yes, that would make Marte a year older there). Obviously this could do the exact opposite and just totally frusturate him and cause even more problems with his hitting (if that's possible really). But if that happens you could just completely release him.....

Again though, just an out of the box thought.....
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby dnosco » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:04 pm

Akron not a crazy idea at all. Let him play at a level he is comfortable with. I mean, a lot of teams have 25 year olds at AA...or lower, if you are the White Sox. Plus he could get some play at other positions more easily than in Columbus. Let's do it. Work with Marte at various positions in ST and then ship him out to Akron to play those positions while working on his batting.

Pretty much means no other team has a spot for an extra thirdbaseman on their ML roster. Not surprising. How many teams nowadays can afford an extra thirdbaseman or even an extra firstbaseman if you are an NL team, on your roster. The key is versatility and right now Marte hasn't shown any.

Still don't think we needed Salas but he has an option left and at only the loss of Valasquez it is no big deal now...although I still think this is a waste of a 40-man roster space with all the arms we already had at Columbus and Akron.
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby martyinnewyork » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:33 pm

Can't have Marte playing 3rd at Akron - that spot's reserved for Corey Smith...
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:50 pm

martyinnewyork wrote:Can't have Marte playing 3rd at Akron - that spot's reserved for Corey Smith...

:s_thumbsup :s_biggrin
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby MadThinker88 » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:59 pm

I actually think they have 3B in Akron reserved for the return of Matt Whitney this year.
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby jellis » Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am

marte is I would assume bench guy in AAa dn Aubrey either ends up in akron or in some minor deal for a buck of balls

speaks volumes that not even some random crap team thought enough about him to claim him
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:01 am

dnosco wrote:Akron not a crazy idea at all. Let him play at a level he is comfortable with. I mean, a lot of teams have 25 year olds at AA...or lower, if you are the White Sox. Plus he could get some play at other positions more easily than in Columbus. Let's do it. Work with Marte at various positions in ST and then ship him out to Akron to play those positions while working on his batting.

Pretty much means no other team has a spot for an extra thirdbaseman on their ML roster. Not surprising. How many teams nowadays can afford an extra thirdbaseman or even an extra firstbaseman if you are an NL team, on your roster. The key is versatility and right now Marte hasn't shown any.

Still don't think we needed Salas but he has an option left and at only the loss of Valasquez it is no big deal now...although I still think this is a waste of a 40-man roster space with all the arms we already had at Columbus and Akron.


Only real negative I see is Marte's attitude....which you could always bypass by just cutting him if he does display a bad one I guess. The Akron team seems pretty weak to me on bats though, so maybe he'll take it ok with starting everyday......who knows....


Tribe disagrees with you though. Shapiro has proven in the past that he's never satisfied with the bullpen arms he has....he always wants more (see 2007 offseason). Shouldn't come as a suprise that he wanted more arms at the expense of a low-A ball guy. Plus, we do have 'depth' in the ML/AAA......but not many are impact guys. We have plenty of depth in the roation between the ML/AAA levels......but that depth isn't very good. It's the same with the pen. We have about 5-6 good arms in the bullpen.....adding a guy that can potentially be an impact arm is always a good idea....
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:02 am

MadThinker88 wrote:I actually think they have 3B in Akron reserved for the return of Matt Whitney this year.


hoping this was a joke.....
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby MadThinker88 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:21 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
MadThinker88 wrote:I actually think they have 3B in Akron reserved for the return of Matt Whitney this year.


hoping this was a joke.....


Only in part. Unless Goedert starts to rake again, the beginning of his 2007 season is looking more and more like mirage.
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:13 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
MadThinker88 wrote:I actually think they have 3B in Akron reserved for the return of Matt Whitney this year.


hoping this was a joke.....


Only in part. Unless Goedert starts to rake again, the beginning of his 2007 season is looking more and more like mirage.


How is it only partially a joke? Whitney is no longer in the Tribe organization......he's with the Nationals....


I'm not a huge fan of Goedert either. But he could still get some playing time in at 2B and DH (or Marte could DH there at Akron). I'm not a fan of Goedert playing 3B. He played well at 2B last year and probably won't hit well enough to play 3B. Likely will end up a utility guy though like a Jamey Carroll but with more power/less speed...
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby cardiackidz » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:38 pm

hearing these names like corey smith and matt whitney, just shows how long 3rd base has been a hole in this organization.
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:54 pm

cardiackidz wrote:hearing these names like corey smith and matt whitney, just shows how long 3rd base has been a hole in this organization.


yeah....pretty much since Fryman retired.....and even a bit before.....
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:12 pm

Keeping Marte anywhere where he might interfere with another prospects development is a futile exercise IMO. Of course, i said the same about Aubrey. Still think the same and expect both to be gone once things settle down with placement and injuries. No need to get rid of them unless they are in the way but I have a tough time seeing Marte in Akron as anything but a clubhouse cancer. I really believe there is room for only one in Columbus barring injuries.
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:22 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:Keeping Marte anywhere where he might interfere with another prospects development is a futile exercise IMO. Of course, i said the same about Aubrey. Still think the same and expect both to be gone once things settle down with placement and injuries. No need to get rid of them unless they are in the way but I have a tough time seeing Marte in Akron as anything but a clubhouse cancer. I really believe there is room for only one in Columbus barring injuries.


Assumning you're talking about Aubrey along with Marte there....

Let's for the sake of arguement assume (which is probably pretty close to accurate) that this will be the starting lineup for Columbus:

C: Torregas
1B: Brown
2B: Valbuena
3B: Hodges
SS: Merchan
LF: Brantley
CF: Crowe
RF: LaPorta
DH: Aubrey

BN: Head
BN: Gimenez


Leaves two empty bench spots assuming they go with the traditional 13 position players/12 pitcher roster.

3 guys come to mind that would fill out......Valdez, Graffanino, and Marte.

Don't really think Marte making the club and being on the bench is really a bad thing. I mean Graffanino is 37 (I believe) and Valdez is pushing 30.

Who else is there that should be on the AAA team?.....at least to start the year....


Is it really that hard to fit both Marte and Aubrey on that team? I really don't think so.....


Now, maybe Marte has a terrible attitude and having him around is bad for the clubhouse.....but other than that.....don't really see the point in cutting either Aubrey or Marte in favor of a Graffanino or Valdez...

Only thing is who then is the backup middle infielder? I really think marte can handle it (2B at least) and since it's just AAA so what if you put Marte there and he botches some balls (isn't that what the minors are for?)....like I said, I think (if he has a good attitude.....which he may not) Marte can become a Blake-like player and play multiple positions. He's a better defensive 3B already, and I never heard anything negative about him when learning to play 1B last spring (though maybe I missed something).


We'll see though.....honestly wouldn't be shocked if one of Aubrey or Marte is cut I guess....
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:44 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Leaves two empty bench spots assuming they go with the traditional 13 position players/12 pitcher roster.


Triple-A and Double-A rosters are only 24 players.

As a result, with an 12 man pitching staff and 9 starters in the lineup, that leaves just three bench spots. Two of which are already taken up by Gimenez and Head. The final spot needs to be someone who can play SS and 2B....and that ain't Marte.

He has little chance of sticking if Aubrey is there, and Aubrey has little chance vice versa. They are both really battling for the DH and backup corner IF spot in Columbus.
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby MadThinker88 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:30 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
MadThinker88 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
MadThinker88 wrote:I actually think they have 3B in Akron reserved for the return of Matt Whitney this year.


hoping this was a joke.....


Only in part. Unless Goedert starts to rake again, the beginning of his 2007 season is looking more and more like mirage.


How is it only partially a joke? Whitney is no longer in the Tribe organization......he's with the Nationals....

Knew that.... just suggesting the Tribe still has a spot open for him and he is welcome to return at any point.
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:08 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Keeping Marte anywhere where he might interfere with another prospects development is a futile exercise IMO. Of course, i said the same about Aubrey. Still think the same and expect both to be gone once things settle down with placement and injuries. No need to get rid of them unless they are in the way but I have a tough time seeing Marte in Akron as anything but a clubhouse cancer. I really believe there is room for only one in Columbus barring injuries.


Assumning you're talking about Aubrey along with Marte there....

Let's for the sake of arguement assume (which is probably pretty close to accurate) that this will be the starting lineup for Columbus:

C: Torregas
1B: Brown
2B: Valbuena
3B: Hodges
SS: Merchan
LF: Brantley
CF: Crowe
RF: LaPorta
DH: Aubrey

BN: Head
BN: Gimenez


Leaves two empty bench spots assuming they go with the traditional 13 position players/12 pitcher roster.

3 guys come to mind that would fill out......Valdez, Graffanino, and Marte.

Don't really think Marte making the club and being on the bench is really a bad thing. I mean Graffanino is 37 (I believe) and Valdez is pushing 30.

Who else is there that should be on the AAA team?.....at least to start the year....


Is it really that hard to fit both Marte and Aubrey on that team? I really don't think so.....


Now, maybe Marte has a terrible attitude and having him around is bad for the clubhouse.....but other than that.....don't really see the point in cutting either Aubrey or Marte in favor of a Graffanino or Valdez...

Only thing is who then is the backup middle infielder? I really think marte can handle it (2B at least) and since it's just AAA so what if you put Marte there and he botches some balls (isn't that what the minors are for?)....like I said, I think (if he has a good attitude.....which he may not) Marte can become a Blake-like player and play multiple positions. He's a better defensive 3B already, and I never heard anything negative about him when learning to play 1B last spring (though maybe I missed something).


We'll see though.....honestly wouldn't be shocked if one of Aubrey or Marte is cut I guess....

I think you pretty much have all the arguments for or against but you have one extra roster spot as TL pointed out. Head covers 1B and the OF corners as backup. Gimenez covers C and IF/OF corners and possibly 2B in a pinch. Aubrey 1B and Marte 3B/1B and 2B in a pinch. I just think they might be in the way because we really need a MI backup, and not Methuselah as you pointed out. With only four reserves, including the DH, you can only keep one of Marte/Aubrey if you back up the MI. I think it should be Marte depending on his attitude but I also think it unlikely it will make any difference to the organization in the long term.
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:07 am

MadThinker88 wrote:Knew that.... just suggesting the Tribe still has a spot open for him and he is welcome to return at any point.


Not really. He's pretty much just a 1B now. Sad to see him go, but it was time for him to move on.
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:44 am

Consigliere wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Leaves two empty bench spots assuming they go with the traditional 13 position players/12 pitcher roster.


Triple-A and Double-A rosters are only 24 players.

As a result, with an 12 man pitching staff and 9 starters in the lineup, that leaves just three bench spots. Two of which are already taken up by Gimenez and Head. The final spot needs to be someone who can play SS and 2B....and that ain't Marte.

He has little chance of sticking if Aubrey is there, and Aubrey has little chance vice versa. They are both really battling for the DH and backup corner IF spot in Columbus.


Thanks for the update. Thought when they changed the ML rosters to 25 they did the all the minors as well (obviously not, lol).

Does put a wrench in the plans.....but still think there's a small chance they only keep 11 pitchers to start the year at Columbus. Newsom really has no business being up there. And depending on how many of the non-roster invitees make the club, there could be room for everyone else (unless Mujica makes the ML club).

Probably not likely.....but a lil scenario that could get both on the club.....


Agree though, that with only a 24 man roster....doesn't look too good that both make the club. Unless they decide Head needs regular at-bats and starts in the Akron OF......which I'm actually a fan of. Head has less than 135 games at AA and an OPS only around .780. Has he really proven he's ready for AAA? Tribe kept Crowe down there for multiple years.....I don't think him starting there would be a bad thing for him or the Tribe......but we'll see.....
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Re: Marte DFA'd, RHP Salas added...(Edit: Marte clears waivers)

Postby jellis » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:17 pm

wanted to bump this up, because right now with as bad as Mujica has been, I know its early, and Millers health troubles, might salas actually be the number 1 contender for the last spot in the pen, and I feel like its not quite the last spot because no matter who makes the team Masa will be whe last guy in the pen since he can pitch so few INGS, so they are actually competing for the 2nd to last spot in the pen
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