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Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Talk about the Cleveland Indians, Major League Baseball, and other sports.

Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Chiefroy » Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:09 pm

If Santana, Swisher, and Rayburn weren't all in a funk, I probably wouldn't notice how useless Giambi and Johnson are.

But that's 3 of our supposed top sluggers in major suck mode. Giambi and Johnson are no help to us. I'd dump them both, call up Aguilar and Ramirez. Aguilar needs regular ABs I know....so I'd find a way to give them to him. He can't be any worse than Swisher, who I fear may be going blind. Santana has forgotten how to hit and Rayburn must be wearing a cloak of invisibility. They need a wake up call. Ramirez regular ABs are not quite so important, but he can spell Kipnis every so often in the field and he can pinch run when needed. My first l/u would look like this:

1. Bourn CF
2. Kipnis DH
3. Brantley LF
4. Aguilar 1B
5. Murphy RF
6. Gomes C
7. Chisenhall 3B
8. Aviles SS (yeah, Cabrera can sit too)
9. Ramirez 2B

No, I wouldn't keep both Santana and Swish on the bench regularly, I'd just let them know we have other options...Giambi and Johnson are not those options however.

I've remained optimistic for Carlos Carrasco for too long. I'm now ready for him to begin a new career as a reliever. Your SP days are over, welcome to the pen. I'd bring up Bauer, but I'd need to lose a pen arm also. Easy enough to send CC Lee back down, but I don't want to do that. He's got a future in this game. I'd deal Atchinson somewhere for cash if possible. If not...thanks, but we gotta let you go.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:59 pm

Chiefroy wrote:If Santana, Swisher, and Rayburn weren't all in a funk, I probably wouldn't notice how useless Giambi and Johnson are.

But that's 3 of our supposed top sluggers in major suck mode. Giambi and Johnson are no help to us. I'd dump them both, call up Aguilar and Ramirez. Aguilar needs regular ABs I know....so I'd find a way to give them to him. He can't be any worse than Swisher, who I fear may be going blind. Santana has forgotten how to hit and Rayburn must be wearing a cloak of invisibility. They need a wake up call. Ramirez regular ABs are not quite so important, but he can spell Kipnis every so often in the field and he can pinch run when needed. My first l/u would look like this:

1. Bourn CF
2. Kipnis DH
3. Brantley LF
4. Aguilar 1B
5. Murphy RF
6. Gomes C
7. Chisenhall 3B
8. Aviles SS (yeah, Cabrera can sit too)
9. Ramirez 2B

No, I wouldn't keep both Santana and Swish on the bench regularly, I'd just let them know we have other options...Giambi and Johnson are not those options however.

I've remained optimistic for Carlos Carrasco for too long. I'm now ready for him to begin a new career as a reliever. Your SP days are over, welcome to the pen. I'd bring up Bauer, but I'd need to lose a pen arm also. Easy enough to send CC Lee back down, but I don't want to do that. He's got a future in this game. I'd deal Atchinson somewhere for cash if possible. If not...thanks, but we gotta let you go.


I'm going to comment in the reverse order..

IDK about giving away Atchison.. the guy has been pretty much lights out every time he's taken the ball save for that mop up outing against Shields and the Royals that night.. He's not going to regress.. or progress.. He's just a solid vet that does the job..

I agree with you on keeping CC Lee here... there has to be a way to make him a member in good standing..

CC-Lite needs several more starts.. I contend that he's gaining on becoming a ML level starter.. Moving him to the pen would be a mistake.. Salazar, okay, not to the pen.. to Columbus..

Swisher and Santana would be part of the Group of 12 players (and Big G) who regularly get playing time based on matchups, hunches and handedness. The one only guy who represents a "luxury" would be Big G.. Right now, IDK that he's not deserving of a spot.. I do know that Elliot Johnson and anything he brings can be covered by the Group of 12, and that includes Jesus Aguilar. If the Indians believe Jose Ramirez would be a better choice at this time and want to continue to see how Aguilar adjusts to the league as they adjust to him.. fine.. Jose Ramirez has had some experience at the ML level and was effective. Either guy can replace the uselessness the Indians are getting from EJ....

Your thoughts....
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:25 pm

It will be interesting to see what the changes are when they come - as surely they will.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Chiefroy » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:19 pm

I'm going to comment in the reverse order..

IDK about giving away Atchison.. the guy has been pretty much lights out every time he's taken the ball save for that mop up outing against Shields and the Royals that night.. He's not going to regress.. or progress.. He's just a solid vet that does the job..

I agree with you on keeping CC Lee here... there has to be a way to make him a member in good standing..

CC-Lite needs several more starts.. I contend that he's gaining on becoming a ML level starter.. Moving him to the pen would be a mistake.. Salazar, okay, not to the pen.. to Columbus..

Swisher and Santana would be part of the Group of 12 players (and Big G) who regularly get playing time based on matchups, hunches and handedness. The one only guy who represents a "luxury" would be Big G.. Right now, IDK that he's not deserving of a spot.. I do know that Elliot Johnson and anything he brings can be covered by the Group of 12, and that includes Jesus Aguilar. If the Indians believe Jose Ramirez would be a better choice at this time and want to continue to see how Aguilar adjusts to the league as they adjust to him.. fine.. Jose Ramirez has had some experience at the ML level and was effective. Either guy can replace the uselessness the Indians are getting from EJ....

Your thoughts....


Well, we already threw away Aaron Harang because Carrasco is out of options, so why not lose Atchinson as well? Okay, two wrongs don't make a right. Sending CC Lee down would be easier, but that doesn't SEEM right either. Another clunker from Salazar today could mean he's headed back to AAA, but that doesn't SEEM right either. Danny's good enough to pitch in the bigs right now and I kinda expect he'll toss a good game today. We'll see, but Bauer's doing his part. I think Bauer, Salazar, Lee, and Carrasco should all be part of Cleveland's staff facing big league hitters. They may take some lumps and we may lose some games, but we're losing games now already. We ain't gettin' Harang back. I'm just tired of waiting for Carrasco to "develop" into a useful ML starter. He's "wet paint" that never dries.

Yes, Giambi is a "luxury"...one made possible by having the versatile Johnson on the team. But Johnson can't hit and hanging on to Giambi and hoping for a couple more magical PH homers is foolish, imho. Bring up Aguilar and Ramirez, 2 guys who both can play the field and who both have greater offensive upside. We need offensive options and we need our best players on the field.

We also are gonna need a catcher while Gomes takes paternity leave....I guess we'll roster Kottaras who's hit for nothing since we signed him, instead of the red-hot Perez. :cry When Gomes returns and IF we want to keep Santana away from catching duties, the defensive-minded Perez makes better sense to me as the backup.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:04 pm

The lost weekend in the city by the bay is complete.. a very nice outing by Danny Salazar...ppppooooooooff... gone like smoke in the wind..

Time for Santana to get something / anything going.. maybe a day or four on the bench.. back to fundamentals.. IDK. something has to get him going..
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:34 pm

I may drive to meet up with Francona and slap some sense into him. Will Santana bat 4th for the rest of eternity?
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:53 am

GeronimoSon wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:Abreu hit the two HR's in the first game but then went 1-for-11 with 6 K's in the last three. He's hitting .234 on the season. I think the jury is still out on what kind of hitter he is. The Indians pitchers figured him out quickly enough. Outman said they noticed he hits balls coming in on him much better than he hits balls going away. So Outman, who gave up a HR to him in the first game, pitched him away the next time and struck him out.

Let's see how Abreu does his second time around the league when the pitchers have a book on him.

Bourn had a disappointing season last year and is 3-for-20 in his rehab stint. His leg may be OK but he doesn't look ready. He struck out twice yesterday against AA pitching. Meanwhile, Morgan is locked in. He's so short that pitchers are having trouble throwing strikes to him. I don't know what other options they have, but replacing Morgan with Bourn doesn't look like a good move right now.

By they way, when Bourn returns Morgan will be the 5th outfielder, not the 4th. Will the Tribe release Morgan in order to keep Giambi?


Agree on Abreu. Jury is definitely still out on him...for what the Sox paid I'm not that impressed.

I can't imagine Morgan is released for Giambi but never say never. I don't see how you could cut Morgan and keep Johnson around though. Johnson has never been good at the big league level and has been terrible in the early going. Sure he's very versatile but you have Raburn and Aviles around...Johnson is at best the 3rd option at any position. Give me Morgan who can at least contribute on offense over Johnson.

Other option could be sending Chiz to AAA when Giambi is healthy. Not a fan of that with how Chiz has hit but also think Chiz needs to be playing a lot more.


Has the jury rendered the verdict yet?.. Still not impressed?.. Maybe he can't field his position too?.. :rolleyes


Jury is definitely still out on him. Hasn't even been a month. Great power but the OBP is still so-so. Definitely more impressed now than I was but let's see how he does when the league adjusts to him.

And his HR/FB% is near 33% right now....never say never I guess but have a feeling that 1 out of every 3 fly balls he hits won't be leaving the yard all year.
Last edited by Hermie13 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:56 am

GeronimoSon wrote:If Aguilar replaces Elliot Johnson.. then Swisher becomes the swing w/ Aguilar playing first base MOST of the time.. If he's raking.. let him..

In addition to the LH bat that Big-G brings, that leaves the switch hitting Swisher (1B/OF/DH), switch hitting Santana (1B/3B/C/DH), Aviles (2B/SS/OF/DH) and Raburn (OF/2B/P) as the "bench" with at least one playing every day. OF is covered in two spots with Dr Smooth moving over if Bourn needs an off day, IF is covered, catching is covered.. This would work out just fine.... Shock promotion..perhaps as early as the start of the Anaheim series.. Won't give Jesus time to think...


Swisher doesn't become a swing man if Aguilar is brought up. Being paid too much, team leader/vet, Francona loves him, and last year when we bounced him between the OF/1B it just caused shoulder issues for him. Maybe Swisher is your DH a few times more with Aguilar up but right now just not any ABs for Aguilar other than against lefties. The only benching I can see Santana getting is the DH spot to try and get him to focus on hitting. Just too good an offensive weapon to bench outright. He is in a major funk, no question...but guys like him need to play to get out of it.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:03 am

GeronimoSon wrote:
Chiefroy wrote:If Santana, Swisher, and Rayburn weren't all in a funk, I probably wouldn't notice how useless Giambi and Johnson are.

But that's 3 of our supposed top sluggers in major suck mode. Giambi and Johnson are no help to us. I'd dump them both, call up Aguilar and Ramirez. Aguilar needs regular ABs I know....so I'd find a way to give them to him. He can't be any worse than Swisher, who I fear may be going blind. Santana has forgotten how to hit and Rayburn must be wearing a cloak of invisibility. They need a wake up call. Ramirez regular ABs are not quite so important, but he can spell Kipnis every so often in the field and he can pinch run when needed. My first l/u would look like this:

1. Bourn CF
2. Kipnis DH
3. Brantley LF
4. Aguilar 1B
5. Murphy RF
6. Gomes C
7. Chisenhall 3B
8. Aviles SS (yeah, Cabrera can sit too)
9. Ramirez 2B

No, I wouldn't keep both Santana and Swish on the bench regularly, I'd just let them know we have other options...Giambi and Johnson are not those options however.

I've remained optimistic for Carlos Carrasco for too long. I'm now ready for him to begin a new career as a reliever. Your SP days are over, welcome to the pen. I'd bring up Bauer, but I'd need to lose a pen arm also. Easy enough to send CC Lee back down, but I don't want to do that. He's got a future in this game. I'd deal Atchinson somewhere for cash if possible. If not...thanks, but we gotta let you go.


I'm going to comment in the reverse order..

IDK about giving away Atchison.. the guy has been pretty much lights out every time he's taken the ball save for that mop up outing against Shields and the Royals that night.. He's not going to regress.. or progress.. He's just a solid vet that does the job..

I agree with you on keeping CC Lee here... there has to be a way to make him a member in good standing..

CC-Lite needs several more starts.. I contend that he's gaining on becoming a ML level starter.. Moving him to the pen would be a mistake.. Salazar, okay, not to the pen.. to Columbus..

Swisher and Santana would be part of the Group of 12 players (and Big G) who regularly get playing time based on matchups, hunches and handedness. The one only guy who represents a "luxury" would be Big G.. Right now, IDK that he's not deserving of a spot.. I do know that Elliot Johnson and anything he brings can be covered by the Group of 12, and that includes Jesus Aguilar. If the Indians believe Jose Ramirez would be a better choice at this time and want to continue to see how Aguilar adjusts to the league as they adjust to him.. fine.. Jose Ramirez has had some experience at the ML level and was effective. Either guy can replace the uselessness the Indians are getting from EJ....

Your thoughts....


Agree with GSon on keeping Atchison around. He's been solid and always nice having a vet like that in the pen...guy you can abuse if you need to and not worry about ruining a career. Plus he's a guy that's played for Francona....we saw Rich Hill stick around last year.

Lee....like him and do agree he has a future in the pen, but he hasn't been all that impressive thus far so if he had to go down to me it's not a huge loss. Could see an 8-man pen again but when your #4 and #5 starters (Salazar and Carrasco) are going 6 and 7 innings don't believe you really need one.


Really don't get sitting all your proven vets. Just because guys are hot right now in AAA doesn't mean they'll come up and hit well in the bigs. I disagree too that Ramirez getting regular ABs is less important than Aguilar. Ramirez is the better spec and playing time is even more important IMO. I know it's frustrating watching Santana and Swisher and others struggle...but again, you gotta let your proven vets work their way out of funks. Jason Kipnis had an even worse first month of the year in 2013 than Santana is currently having. Tribe stuck with him and we saw what he was capable of.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Chiefroy » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:54 pm

Chris Cotillo of MLBDailyDish.com is hearing that the White Sox and Indians could pursue Scott Baker is he opts out of his minor league deal with the Rangers.

Baker can use his opt out clause on Thursday, which he'll certainly do if he can get a major league job elsewhere. The veteran right-hander holds a 2.81 ERA and 26/10 K/BB ratio in 32 innings across five starts with Triple-A Round Rock this season. Apr 28 - 7:52 PM


Source: Chris Cotillo on Twitter
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Chiefroy » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:15 pm

Attaboy, Carlos. Bet that felt good. :cool
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:22 am

Chiefroy wrote:Chris Cotillo of MLBDailyDish.com is hearing that the White Sox and Indians could pursue Scott Baker is he opts out of his minor league deal with the Rangers.

Baker can use his opt out clause on Thursday, which he'll certainly do if he can get a major league job elsewhere. The veteran right-hander holds a 2.81 ERA and 26/10 K/BB ratio in 32 innings across five starts with Triple-A Round Rock this season. Apr 28 - 7:52 PM


Source: Chris Cotillo on Twitter


Baker would be an interesting option for the Tribe. Would be nice to have him for Wednesday when we are skipping Carrasco though.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:29 am

Chiefroy wrote:Attaboy, Carlos. Bet that felt good. :cool


He swung hard in case he hit it.. yes..it was nice to see a ball travel over the wall off the bat of Carlos...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Edible14 » Sun May 04, 2014 3:10 pm

So, help me out here. I was confused why Hagadone was called up in the first place, but then they immediately turned around and sent him down for Nyjer Morgan. Neither of which are particularly needed on the team as currently constructed. Is there a story to those transactions? Did Antonetti make that call, and then Francona called him and asked for it to be changed?

Also, why Tomlin over Bauer?
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Sun May 04, 2014 4:28 pm

Morgan has value and showed it today.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Sun May 04, 2014 5:21 pm

Edible14 wrote:So, help me out here. I was confused why Hagadone was called up in the first place, but then they immediately turned around and sent him down for Nyjer Morgan. Neither of which are particularly needed on the team as currently constructed. Is there a story to those transactions? Did Antonetti make that call, and then Francona called him and asked for it to be changed?

Also, why Tomlin over Bauer?


Bourn got injured last night and that's why Morgan came up today.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GhostofTedCox » Mon May 05, 2014 10:34 pm

I think we're running out of reasons not to bring up Jesus Aguilar right now. Offence is pathetic.

Even if he fails right now, he would be better for the experience. It also might rattle some cages that not all regular jobs will remain secure unless something turns around.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Tondo » Tue May 06, 2014 8:20 am

I have this feeling that Tomlin will run away with the 5th SP spot. His FB velocity is up to 91-93 now :eek

Good read:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/josh-tomlin-right-arm-rejuvenated-returns-to-cleveland/
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue May 06, 2014 10:11 am

Tondo wrote:I have this feeling that Tomlin will run away with the 5th SP spot. His FB velocity is up to 91-93 now :eek

Good read:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/josh-tomlin-right-arm-rejuvenated-returns-to-cleveland/


Thanks for the posting.. The Little Cowboy with a low/mid nineties fastball and his control will make him very Greg-Maddux-like. This could be a permanent move.. "Golf Clap"
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue May 06, 2014 4:42 pm

According to Paul Hoynes, Lonnie Chisenhall has started taking groundballs at 1B and shagging flys in LF. Indians asked him to try this in Anaheim.


All for this. Need to get Lonnie's bat in the lineup more now. Of course I still think we should have left him alone at 3B and moved Santana to the OF....but definitely think Lonnie can handle the cOF. Athletic with a good arm.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Wed May 07, 2014 11:00 pm

We should have 6 game winning streak.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Sun May 11, 2014 5:38 pm

I trust Morgan is here to stay!
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Tue May 13, 2014 7:00 am

This is getting ridiculous. Carlos Santana hit .157 in April, and is now hitting .143 in May. His average for the season is a cool .148, and we're nearly at the quarter pole.

In the 2012 season, major league pitchers hit a combined .128.

Forget the Mendoza line - Carlos isn't even within shouting distance of that. He's closing in on the Pitcher's Line. I'm wondering if Tito is considering having Tomlin or McAllister pinch hit for him late with men on base.

By the way, Josh Tomlin has a career batting average of .571. That's right - he's 4-for-7. They should have him start taking ground balls at 3rd before we play any more National League teams.

I think Santana gets a hit on about 1 in 20 ground balls to the right side. With three infielders on that side and not much footspeed, Santana is practically an automatic out every time he pulls the ball, unless he manages to hit it over the fence or line it into the corner, both of which are rare occurances. I'm so sick of seeing ground ball after ground ball right into the shift.

I really think they need to get his eyes checked. Something is wrong. At age 28 he should be on top of his game. IIRC, he wasn't hitting much in winter ball, either.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue May 13, 2014 8:50 am

Yeah... C-San's slump is puzzling.. Pull everything.. on the ground for another automatic out.. you hope when he comes to the plate that he doesn't ground into a double play instead of driving in a run.. It's gone from bad to worse for April to May.. Perhaps a sit down and watch... thing could do his cluttered mind (if it's cluttered) some good.. Hard to pinpoint the reasons..

Sad about Jose Fernandez's elbow.. Just shows that as much care that can be taken to avoid THAT injury, if it's going to occur, it's going to occur. The Indians and other clubs just don't have the means to prevent the shredding of the ligaments in these young kids arms.. The specter of second and third TJ surgeries also seems to be on the rise as well.. I believe Bob Feller had it right w/r to how to help these kids.. It's not limit the amount of throwing.. THROW MORE.. Long toss, especially.. Perhaps that's why Trevor Bauer seems immune to the elbow thing.. imho...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue May 13, 2014 10:12 pm

ahh.. another poor offensive performance from the Wahoos..

A couple of quick observations on the game at the Roger's Center...

The Indians can chalk up at least two or three opportunities to a home plate umpire who had a moving target for a strike zone.. The calls on David Murphy in the 8th inning were a travesty..

Michael Bourn seems to be staying on the ball and making better contact.. If this continues.. he could start bringing his A-Game to the park every day...

The home plate umpire didn't have the courage to call a runner safe when a clear path to the plate was not given and the catcher did not have the ball during Carlos Santana's attempt to score from second base..

Why wouldn't a faster runner be used in that spot.. Jose Ramirez scores easily on that single to left.. Nyger Morgan thrives on chances like that.. Carlos, not so much.. imho..

As a side note: This sliding into home plate rule has to be pushed the other way from the Indians perspective.. They've lost two games because of their timidity to run over the catcher blocking the plate without the ball.. Make the umpire rule against them for torturous contact..

Game two tomorrow night.. Kluber v McGowan.. should be a pretty good matchup.. we'll see if Klubes has his K-machine working again...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Thu May 15, 2014 7:54 am

The catcher was not blocking the plate. He shifted from one side to the other as the ball was arriving but Santana was still several steps up the line. When the catcher caught the ball his foot was on the plate and his body was off to the side. Santana was just starting to slide. Santana slid directly into the plate and across it without making contact with the catcher or deviating from a direct path to the plate. The catcher never touched him except with his glove on a swipe tag from the side.

Nice to see Carlos hit a line drive HR last night, even if it was against a 32-year-old career minor leaguer that the rest of the lineup touched up pretty well. At least his defense and his baserunning is looking pretty good. I swear he's running much faster this year. All that squatting was slowing him down. He stole a base last night and has been aggressive in taking an extra base. Not that he'll ever be Ricky Henderson, but he's no longer a liability on the basepaths.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu May 15, 2014 9:18 am

And we've reached the quarter pole in the 2014 season with a resounding crushing win over the Jays.. Nice to see Klubes just keep on mowing them down in start after start after start.. Everyone contributed, especially Lonnie and Murph.. Great offensive night for the Sons...

So, as the second quarter begins, it's time to look back on where the Indians are.. and how they stand.. Offensively, this team about as middle of the pack as it gets.. they don't outslug anyone.. they don't out pick anyone.. they don't steal your lunch money.. They are about as bland/middle of the pack as any team in MLB. 20th in BA with 12th in OBP.. says they walk some.. OPS they're 13th (yawn).. They steal a few bags.. get caught a few times.. nothing special.. They get their share of homers (33, good for 18th in MLB) and drive in enough runs.. The only area of offense that stands out to some degree is the Indians don't strike out nearly as much as the most teams (they still strike out enough) and they take a few more walks than most teams.. Otherwise.. this is not a juggernaut / offensive / 1 through 9 /contributing club..

Pitching wise.. the Indians are, again, a middle of the road kind of club.. ERA, Saves, Hits allowed, Runs, Whip, BAA.. all low teens to upper teens against all other ML clubs.. In short.. nothing special.. There are a couple of areas from the pitching side of the club that do stand out.. the first is the way the pitchers mow em down.. the Indians are second in all of baseball in strike outs.. Along with the K's, they Indians also give up the least number of homers in all of baseball.. What this says is the strikes that our pitching staff are throwing.. are quality strikes.. good enough to keep the ball in the yard..

The biggest deficiency in this club is by far, the defense.. There is a 24 run gap between earned runs and runs allowed in total.. good for a tie for second to LAST. Compare what the Cincinnati Reds do defensively to what the Indians do.. 24 unearned runs versus 3. Sure, teams are going to make errors, but, many times, an error doesn't end up costing the team runs.. this is where the Indians are truly in the dregs of MLB.. The Dodgers are the worst club when it comes to giving up unearned runs. They've given up 28. The Indians augment (?) their poor earned run totals by being the WORST fielding club in baseball. With being the worst field club, they also have the most errors. After a while..it becomes a mental thing. As in losing your mind watching these guys boot the ball all over the yard while giving the opposition more four out innings than any club in baseball..

The telecast last night.. pointed out this fact.. the statistics support it..The Indians don't catch and throw the batted ball all that well.. No one wearing Chief Wahoo on his sleeve appears to be immune save for Doctor Smoooth.. This is where the rubber meets the road for the Indians in the next 122 games.. At 19-21, they're a .500 club.. To be able to make it to the next level.. they have work to do..a lot of work.. Should be an interesting second quarter to the season...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Edible14 » Thu May 15, 2014 3:52 pm

The Indians aren't going to be a good defensive team. Kipnis, Santana, Cabrera and Swisher are all entrenched for various reasons. You can move one of them to DH for a glove guy, but you'd still have 3 below average defenders.

They *should* be starting Ramirez with Kipnis out, to give them some defensive relief. Hell, it'd be nice if they had Ramirez at 2B and Aviles at SS against lefties, with Asdrubal DHing or having a day off.

Santana will come around. His past track record and peripherals dictate it. It's obviously been a disappointing year so far for him, but no baseball player is going to sustain a .165 BABIP all year. If his BABIP was around .270, which would be the lower end of what he's done throughout his career, his BA would be .264. We'd be talking about a guy with an OBA of .411 (as it is, he has the second-highest walk rate in baseball). His OPS would be .811 with his current ISO, .871 with his career high ISO. He'd be having a great season with better luck on batted balls. It would be pretty much in line with everything he's done over his career.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri May 16, 2014 10:34 am

Another game of missed opportunities.. Another lefty on the road kills the Indians.. Last year.. the Indians right handed sticks battered and beat up on lefties, both at home and on the road.. not so much so far this year... The debut of Jesus Aguilar was a ho-hum.. he seemed to be a bit in awe from facial expressions, but, didn't spike himself or cause harm to anyone around him.. We'll see if he sticks or this is just a temporary thing..

The A's invade the north coast tonight.. It's dollar dog bobble works promotion night.. The Indians are expecting cold wet and mostly empty for the series opener.. Sonny Gray v Z-Mack will be the pitching matchup.. Hopefully, the all the sticks will be back in the lineup tonight.. The Indians find themselves in the basement of the AL Central, a game and a half out of second place running Kansas City.. The Tigers hot streak of 8 wins puts them in the elite cat bird's seat, leading the AL Central by 6 games.. They have had some issues with their pitching staff, but, seem to be recovering nicely.. The real contest for the AL Central is joined starting the coming week.. we shall see...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Edible14 » Fri May 16, 2014 4:54 pm

Seems the Indians are pulling the plug on Salazar for the time being, and promoting Crockett. Bauer would be the logical pick to take Salazar's spot in the rotation Tuesday. This could end up being the end for Josh Outman, who has been okay this year against lefties, but he has an option and he's so limited as a lefty-only guy (which is really what Scrabble is as well. Perhaps Crockett provides them some more flexibility in the pen).
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri May 16, 2014 6:47 pm

Edible14 wrote:Seems the Indians are pulling the plug on Salazar for the time being, and promoting Crockett. Bauer would be the logical pick to take Salazar's spot in the rotation Tuesday. This could end up being the end for Josh Outman, who has been okay this year against lefties, but he has an option and he's so limited as a lefty-only guy (which is really what Scrabble is as well. Perhaps Crockett provides them some more flexibility in the pen).


Ed.. you're correct.. Chris Antonetti was quoted as saying he hopes when Bauer comes up after the weekend it will be to stay. Davey Crockett should be given as many opportunities as the Indians can w/r to middle to higher leverage situations over the next three or four games.. If he proves his metal, he could be kept with your Outman suggestion (or CC Lee) being sent back to the minors..

We'll see.. it's going to be a cold one down at the park this evening.. Fireworks, Dollar Dogs, Totebags..etc promotions.. Wouldn't it have been ironic that the Indians would have fleece blankets with hand warmers as a promotion?.. Guess Dick Goddard wasn't consulted. He was too busy swimming out of his car...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Sat May 17, 2014 8:12 pm

Oakland has 3 runs. Game over? And then we follow with a error 5.

This team is a mess.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Sat May 17, 2014 8:55 pm

OK, Santana is batting 4th for the rest of time, even after he's been dead for several years... how can we win games with our clean-up hitter at .150? When does Francona take him out of the lineup? Swisher is almost as bad, and he's locked in at 2. This is driving me insane. Has Francona suffered a brain injury?
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Sat May 17, 2014 9:19 pm

martyinnewyork wrote:OK, Santana is batting 4th for the rest of time, even after he's been dead for several years... how can we win games with our clean-up hitter at .150? When does Francona take him out of the lineup? Swisher is almost as bad, and he's locked in at 2. This is driving me insane. Has Francona suffered a brain injury?


The coming challenge is how much money the team is willing to walk away from. And now Aquillar drops a simple throw.

The team right now stinks!
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Sat May 17, 2014 9:25 pm

Double stinks!

I would send Aquillar back to Columbus tonight. He is not ready and a message of intolerance to bad play needs to be sent. Carson has major league experience.

The team is IMO quitting.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Chiefroy » Sun May 18, 2014 1:25 am

Bearcatbob wrote:Double stinks!

I would send Aquillar back to Columbus tonight. He is not ready and a message of intolerance to bad play needs to be sent. Carson has major league experience.

The team is IMO quitting.


At 6'3, 250 lbs, Aguilar is our most intimidating figure in the batter's box. He made an error and promptly got pinch-hit for by Ramirez - 5'9, 165 lbs...our smallest player. Maybe that was a message, idk.

But sending a guy who has hardly played yet back down to AAA in order to send a message of intolerance to bad play...well, that seems kinda pointless. If we want to send a message to players who have not been performing, we should be SITTING players who have had a month and a half to perform and haven't. SANTANA, SWISHER, RAYBURN....until recently Cabrera would make the list. Aguilar should get ABs. He can't suck any worse than these guys.

Thank goodness Cabrera got hot. Chisenhall and Murphy have hit, Aviles has come up big with Kipnis out, Bourn is coming around. Brantley has played like an all-star. Gomes has hit about what should be expected. But we're sending Santana and Swisher out day after day....2 of our expected top run-producers and they're hitting .156 and .203 - OPS .611 and .625....we're dead last in the league as a team vs lefty pitchers in avg/obp/slg/ops - .211/.283/.326/.609.
Rayburn has done nothing....we were counting on him to do what he did last year. I suppose if he's not going to hit, we could DFA him and pay him 2.5 million or whatever to play in Columbus. Can't do that with Swish and Santana.

Maybe Matt Carson could come up and give us a spark for a week or two...but I would not send Aguilar back down for him. Aguilar has not been the problem. I'm hoping he gets more ABs, not a bus ticket. And Carson's not on the 40-man roster, so somebody would have to go. Can't lose a pitcher, we need all we got. We could lose Justin Sellers I suppose, but I figure he stays until we call up Lindor. Dead-weight Giambi should have done been gone....maybe soon. :rolleyes
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 19, 2014 8:07 am

Bad defense is contagious.. it's on the coaching staff to get the focus back to where it was or closer to where it needs to be.. Dropping a ball at first base.. losing the grip on a ball when making the transfer and still throwing the ball anyway.. etc.. are all little league errors. These are things kids are taught in the formative years of baseball.. you never throw a ball that you aren't holding..

It might be time for one of those "come to jesus" meetings.. players only.. wrath of god.. the lollygagging has to stop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLMl0CLIDLg
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Mon May 19, 2014 11:49 am

I get my wish, Santana is dropped from clean-up, only to be replaced by Raburn! That would be ok if it was 2013, but Raburn is back to his 2012 form.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue May 20, 2014 11:16 am

Following the June 5th - 7th Rule IV draft.. the IFA signing date follows.. I would be a SWEEEEEET deal if the Indians could some how sign this Daniel Carbonell.. A switch hitting OF'er (can play all three spots, but, is best suited to CF.) He has the arm.. the speed.. the size (6'3" 220) and the power on both sides, yep, he's a switch hitter, to make an impact. He's got a few sloppy areas of his swing that can be cleaned up, but this kid looks like he's the goods..

Time to make a splash?.. Get the RF'er of the future this weekend?.. maybe? thoughts?
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed May 21, 2014 9:03 am

Musings on a series clinching win and in advance of a series sweep with the finale matinee today....

-First thought of the game.. Bauer giving up the homer to Torii.. damn that guy kills us.. followed by that weak tapper back to Bauer and VMart striking out.. VMart?..striking out?.. what?.. The three hit answer (Droobs crusher and Bourn's liner up the middle were hit hard, Lonnie's, not so much) in the bottom of the first sapped the momentum from the road weary motor city kitties..

-What are you doin Carlos? That ball wasn't more than three steps away from tub-0 at 1B..well, maybe a few more than three.. Took a good throw to get him.. and it fired up the guys.. Double double, double.. and three runs later.. Add a Droobs rbi safety and the crooked number is posted.. pretty impressive..

-Avila.. could have created doubt in Bauer's mind with that smash.. Bauer shook it off.. went about his business.. finished the inning.. what homer?..

-Best defensive play of the night.. back handed pick of the low throw from Droobs by Bauer.. gotta give him credit.. PFP's are worth the practice.. and pitchers just love pfp.. makes think they're really baseball players..

-Best Interview.. Corey Kluber.. the powder was special.. seeds & water = meh.. Powdered jelly donut Hilarious..

If the Indians can get to Mad Max early and often.. the message in the AL Central will be assured.. This aint no cake walk.. Picking up 3 games in three days.. who woulda thunkit from these unwatchable Wahoos?..
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Edible14 » Wed May 21, 2014 2:33 pm

Early returns on Bauer and Tomlin look promising. Salazar might not be coming back unless an injury crops up.

Offensive explosion so far this game. Everyone has a hit except for Carlos (*womp womp*).
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Wed May 21, 2014 5:46 pm

What a crazy game.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed May 21, 2014 6:27 pm

That series could be a season changer for this club.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Wed May 21, 2014 7:08 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:Double stinks!

I would send Aquillar back to Columbus tonight. He is not ready and a message of intolerance to bad play needs to be sent. Carson has major league experience.

The team is IMO quitting.


Well they sure did not quit, especially today. They stopped the bleeding and "kept hope alive"! Baseball played well is thrilling to watch.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed May 21, 2014 7:51 pm

"... If the Indians can get to Mad Max early and often.. the message in the AL Central will be assured.. This aint no cake walk.. Picking up 3 games in three days.. who woulda thunkit from these unwatchable Wahoos?...."

It took 13 inning.. 9 pitchers including tomorrow's starter.. one big mouth tub-o-lards outburst and scrapping for every inch they could but they came away with a well deserved W..

Z-Mac is becoming a much more serious problem than originally thought.. Something needs to change with him.. two innings or less from a starter in back to back starts... aint cutting it...

C-San with the only Tribe O-Fer.. not his day.. not his month..not his year.. at all..

The Ax-Man and Scrabbe: Not their day..

Bourn continues to put the barrel of the bat on the Dr Smooth is the team MVP, Dave Murphy playing at Progressive Field or anywhere is just flat out killing it.. Aviles has taken the opportunity afforded him with the JK kid's injury and, last and CERTAINLY not least.. something in Lonnie's head has turned a light on.. He is on the ball.. he is recognizing pitches.. and he is flat out raking. Get one more guy going like these five.. and this team will score runs in bunches..

Onto the O's and their potent lineup. With the Little Cowboy pitching today.. It looks like the Indians are going to be taxing their farm system and perhaps the waiver wire for a starter in the next day or three.. we'll see...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Wed May 21, 2014 10:19 pm

Considering how much has gone wrong it's amazing the Indians are 22-25. Here's the list:

Three of our five Opening Day starters have ERA's of 5.89, 5.67, and 5.53. The last two have been taken out of the rotation, the 5.89 is still pitching.

The closer has been demoted and can no longer find the strike zone. The setup man was sent to Columbus after compiling an ERA of 13.50.

The cleanup hitter is batting .146. Make that the former cleanup hitter. The #2 hitter, make that the former #2 hitter, is batting .211. The #3 hitter has missed 20 of 47 games due to injury.

The Indians lead the AL in errors by a wide margin, and they mess up a lot of plays that are not ruled errors.

Despite all this they're only three games under .500 and just swept the best team in the AL.

What a comeback after being humiliated 30-6 in three games by the A's.

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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Thu May 22, 2014 10:42 pm

Prosecutor wrote:Considering how much has gone wrong it's amazing the Indians are 22-25. Here's the list:

Three of our five Opening Day starters have ERA's of 5.89, 5.67, and 5.53. The last two have been taken out of the rotation, the 5.89 is still pitching.

The closer has been demoted and can no longer find the strike zone. The setup man was sent to Columbus after compiling an ERA of 13.50.

The cleanup hitter is batting .146. Make that the former cleanup hitter. The #2 hitter, make that the former #2 hitter, is batting .211. The #3 hitter has missed 20 of 47 games due to injury.

The Indians lead the AL in errors by a wide margin, and they mess up a lot of plays that are not ruled errors.

Despite all this they're only three games under .500 and just swept the best team in the AL.

What a comeback after being humiliated 30-6 in three games by the A's.

"Don't bury me 'cause I'm not dead yet." - Elvis Costello


I don't think I would have considered Pestano our setup man at any point this season...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri May 23, 2014 8:13 am

Musings on an odd & eventful evening in Charm city...

Another 13 inning marathon for the pitching staff.. a lot of tired arms.. can someone call 911 for help?.. Over the next few days, roster manipulation is going to be in full force..Vinnie, Blake, CC Lee, Supe'Herrmann, and Hags should pack an extra bag, just in case.. Even Adam Miller could see an inning or two... wouldn't that be a nice surprise for him?..

Onto the game...

Bourn just keeps on putting the barrel of the bat on the ball.. he's what a lead off hitter is supposed to look like..

Droobs.. hit in pretty bad luck yesterday.. he hit the ball hard three times.. and had NOTHING to show for it.. He had a good approach, didn't swing at the first pitch every time.. He absolutely needs to stop trying to do two things at one time in the field. he gets another E-6 for his effort.. Droobs showed that he is a real gamer playing with a knee that was smacked so hard with a pitch that most guys would be on crutches..

Lonnie.. play some 3B.. play some 1B..play some Dh.. Bunt.. hit it over the wall.. score runs.. blah blah blah.. Locked & Loaded Lonnie...comes to play.. every day..

CSan.. two hits on the night.. hit the ball hard two other times. FWIW.. He's starting, just a bit, to see and hammer the ball like he should be.. imho, he's on the verge of a killer 30 day period.. Defensively, he's still a WIP at 3B, but, he's getting there... Perhaps it's time to bring up a "3rd" catcher, Roberto Perez, and hide C-San's catching gear?.. Maybe give Swish a day or three in the OF..

Dr Smooth.. ho hum.. multi hit game.. superb on the basepaths.. beautiful defense.. the superlatives become less prominent when he performs at this level every day... What a season he's having.. ASG needs to be Smoooooooooth...

Pitching.. For five innings.. Masterson was masterful.. well.. sort of.. he bobbed and weaved his way for five innings.. giving up nothing.. With better defense, he would be a helluva lot more effective.. Then, in the sixth.. the wheels came off.. careening off the rails.. pitches up and in the middle of the plate.. Perhaps, in retrospect, Tito/Mickey..should have considered Masterson for a 5 inning limit, regardless of the # of pitches.. Short rest. etc.. Maybe not.. Hindsight/second guessing is ALWAYS so much clearer..

Good W.. another one today w/ a Ranger win.. and the AL Central could be that much tighter.. Edging toward .500 says this club is edging toward being a contender & away from being a pretender.. That's really all that can be hoped for at this juncture of the season...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Fri May 23, 2014 8:31 am

Bourn just keeps on putting the barrel of the bat on the ball.. he's what a lead off hitter is supposed to look like..


I'd like to see him draw more walks, but he's swinging the bat well right now. He's not really a true leadoff hitter, IMO, based on his OBP over the last couple of years, but we don't really have one, so Bourn is the guy. Right now he's hitting well and has good speed even if he no longer steal bags, so no complaints.

Then, in the sixth.. the wheels came off.. careening off the rails.. pitches up and in the middle of the plate.. Perhaps, in retrospect, Tito/Mickey..should have considered Masterson for a 5 inning limit, regardless of the # of pitches.. Short rest. etc.. Maybe not.. Hindsight/second guessing is ALWAYS so much clearer..


After the non-double double to deep right center, two solid singles and a walk, it was obvious Masterson was laboring and losing his command. He always has trouble with lefties and a lefty was coming up with two on and two out. I was screaming for Scrabble or Outman to get us out of the inning with a 3-2 lead, but Tito stayed with him and Justin got taken deep. As a result it took 13 innings rather than 9 to get the win. The last thing the Indians needed was another extra inning game. Now their bullpen is overworked, Tomlin missed a start, and we have a career minor leaguer starting tonight.

Big misjudgement by Tito. I get that he was trying to save his bullen, but Masterson had nothing left and was facing a lefty with two runners on base. Duh!

I think Tito's biggest weakness as a manager is loyalty to his veterans. He's keeping Giambi on the roster long after his ability to hit, run, play in the field and stay healthy has gone. He kept Swisher and Santana in the #2 and #4 spots in the lineup for far too long, finally realizing he was being stubborn and it was hurting the team. He tends to go with his starters for one batter too many, like last night.

I get that slumps are part of baseball and you have to give guys the chance to work their way out of it, but Tito just sticks with non-producing players too long, and he also stays with starters too long after it's clear they have lost their command.

It's not complicated. You have a pitcher who goes five innings, doesn't walk anybody, keeps his pitches at the knees or below and induces a lot of ground balls including three double plays. Then he comes out in the 6th and gives up a long fly ball, two line drives, and a walk. Something has definitely changed. He's over 80 pitches and is going on three days rest. How hard is it to figure out that he's done?

Did I mention that lefties are hitting .319 against him this year?
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Chiefroy » Fri May 23, 2014 8:30 pm

Asdrubal got hot, Santana with a game-winning double, and now Giambi HOMERS....I'm gonna quit griping for a while. :)

Oh wait...our starting pitching sucks. But I don't see much help on the horizon. They're just gonna have to get better.
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