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Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Talk about the Cleveland Indians, Major League Baseball, and other sports.

Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Fri May 23, 2014 9:19 pm

Another error and House goes into position for a loss. Winning tonight would be a near miracle. We are making even a miracle difficult.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Fri May 23, 2014 11:10 pm

Chiefroy wrote:Asdrubal got hot, Santana with a game-winning double, and now Giambi HOMERS....I'm gonna quit griping for a while. :)

Oh wait...our starting pitching sucks. But I don't see much help on the horizon. They're just gonna have to get better.


Let's see. Carrasco flamed out and got put in the bullpen. Salazar flamed out and got sent to Columbus. McAllister strained his back and is on the DL. Masterson lost his fastball and has an ERA well north of 5. That leaves Kluber as the only starter who was in the rotation at the beginning of the season who is healthy and pitching well.

Fortunately, Tomlin and Bauer have stepped up, so now we just need Masterson to find his groove and then a rainout every 5th day until McAllister is back.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Edible14 » Sat May 24, 2014 6:53 am

Interesting stats take on Axford so far:

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2014/ ... ew-normal/

The take-home point: Axford is arguably the worst reliever in baseball at the moment. He's lost all ability to strike people out at an above-average rate, his control is a mess and his velocity is way down. He's likely finished as an effective reliever. If he can't find some command or velocity somehow, his days as a major league pitcher are limited.

So now... should we be looking for a closer? Are we considering putting Lowe into that role? He does have two options left... do you send him to Columbus and hope he can figure it out there (like what they're doing with Herrman and Pestano)?
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sun May 25, 2014 9:02 am

Axford was a great pitcher in 2011 at age 28. He converted 46-of-50 save opportunities with a 1.95 ERA for the Brewers.

He was considerably less effective the following year, going 35-for-44 with a 4.67 ERA.

In 2013 he lost his closer's job and ended up with a 4.02 ERA, but he did finish strong after being informed that he was tipping his pitches.

His problem this year is lack of command, as he has issued 17 walks in 20 innings. Last year it was 26 walks in 65 innings. His walk rate this year is 74% HIGHER than his career rate.

Obviously his mechanics are a mess. He's a very tall pitcher who has a hard time syncing up all the moving parts. When he does the results are outstanding. But it's easy for 6'5" guys to lose their mechanics. Think Justin Masterson and Ubaldo Jimenez, two pitchers who are untouchable when everything is working but totally ineffective the instant something gets slightly out of whack.

Whether Axford and Calloway can pull it together remains to be seen. This is the third consecutive year Axford has not been a good pitcher, and he's getting worse. However, Calloway pulled Ubaldo out of the ditch after three bad years, so maybe he can get Axford right. When Axford is right he's nearly untouchable.

The Indians should just continue having him pitch one inning at a time in games like yesterday that have already been decided. If his command improves they can gradually bring him back to where he's pitching in close games. If not, oh well.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Edible14 » Sun May 25, 2014 2:48 pm

Prosecutor wrote:Whether Axford and Calloway can pull it together remains to be seen. This is the third consecutive year Axford has not been a good pitcher, and he's getting worse. However, Calloway pulled Ubaldo out of the ditch after three bad years, so maybe he can get Axford right. When Axford is right he's nearly untouchable.

The Indians should just continue having him pitch one inning at a time in games like yesterday that have already been decided. If his command improves they can gradually bring him back to where he's pitching in close games. If not, oh well.


Axford hasn't been that kind of untouchable in years now. Certainly hasn't shown it this year.

I don't think the Indians can afford to have two relievers that they don't think can pitch in any leverage situations. They have Carrasco already, at least he has some value in being able to throw 2-3 innings out of the pen when needed. What makes Axford any different than Vinnie Pestano? Why shouldn't he be trying to regain his form in Columbus just like Vinnie, instead of being a waste of a roster spot in Cleveland?
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Sun May 25, 2014 6:57 pm

I think Axford showed early in this season that he could get people out. Since early April he has lost his control. Me thinks the guy who fixed Ubaldo will fix Axford.

Far more attention should be paid to fixing Santana than Axford.

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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Mon May 26, 2014 8:34 am

Despite all his problems, Axford has 22 K's in 20 innings. He can blow his 95 mph fastball past good hitters consistently and follow it up with a nasty curveball that locks them up. When he's commanding both pitches he's been dominant.

The problem is the recently he hasn't been able to throw strikes.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon May 26, 2014 9:43 am

Random thoughts...

Axford is an solid back of he he bullpen arm when he's on, it's hard to argue against what he did in STL last season, even outside of his first few appearances last yr in Milwaukee he was solid. I've heard another fan say, "the Tribe did their regular PR job on Axford, trying to sell him to fans, when he's just another claim from the scrap heap." If that were true then same could be said for David Murphy, who IMO had a worse yr last yr than Axford.

Unfortunately, the Tribes limited budget forces them to identify affordable targets in FA, that means for the Tribe they are available because they have their warts. It forces the Tribe to walk a tight rope to identify who will rebound and act aggressively to get those players.

My hope is Axford rebounds sharply and the Tribe is able to move him for a good prospect, if the Tribe continues to scuffle through June / July.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Rocky55 » Mon May 26, 2014 5:29 pm

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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 26, 2014 6:29 pm



FanGraphs has a regular fan club and society devoted to Kluber.. it's kind of creepy...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Edible14 » Tue May 27, 2014 4:20 am

GeronimoSon wrote:


FanGraphs has a regular fan club and society devoted to Kluber.. it's kind of creepy...


It started as something of a joke. Basically some of the writers noticed that Kluber - a guy essentially getting a starting role for the first time at age 27 who was never a top prospect - was pretty high on the leaderboards in certain statistical categories (xFIP, FIP and SIERRA all had him as a top 30 pitcher at various points). Kluber was a guy they kept recommending to be picked up in fantasy leagues basically every week (as his stats were great and he still wasn't owned in many leagues), and his persistent spot on those write-ups was what led to the column occasionally being labeled as "Weekly meeting of the Corey Kluber society". They started heaping somewhat tongue-in-cheek praise on him, and started doing animated gifs of his pitches.

I don't think the guys who started the Society expected it to be much more than a two or three week joke, but Kluber just keeps producing. He's still mostly anonymous nationally, so he's kind-of become a stathead's hero. The Society is basically a play on the idea that if you know who Kluber is and why he's so good, you know something that most national baseball fans don't. You're part of the club.

And yes, Kluber knows about it.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Edible14 » Tue May 27, 2014 4:49 pm

Swisher to the 15 day DL, Santana placed on the 7-day concussion DL, Blake Wood get's DFA'd. Kottaras and Aguilar up. Kipnis should be re-joining the team shortly as well.

I expect to see a lot of Chis and Giambi now, who should be in nearly everyday against righties. I wonder if they'll have Aguilar play 1st against righties, or if they'll try Kottaras there.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed May 28, 2014 10:18 am

Edible14 wrote:Swisher to the 15 day DL, Santana placed on the 7-day concussion DL, Blake Wood get's DFA'd. Kottaras and Aguilar up. Kipnis should be re-joining the team shortly as well.

I expect to see a lot of Chis and Giambi now, who should be in nearly everyday against righties. I wonder if they'll have Aguilar play 1st against righties, or if they'll try Kottaras there.


Doubt Kottaras gets any time at 1B but maybe DH at times (or catches and Gomes at DH). I'd give Aguilar some looks against RHP too. Doesn't need to be platooned.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Wed May 28, 2014 11:34 pm

We sweep Detroit and then get swept by Chicago... Offense and defense continue to be brutal. Pitching continues to keep us in games (for the most part).
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu May 29, 2014 7:57 am

Musings on a chilly night on the south side of Chicago..

Some games are just not worth the effort.. Last night's game.. had, perhaps, one interesting outcome.. TJ House pitched into the 7th inning and acquitted himself very well as a starting pitcher. His low 90's FB along with superb control had the CWSox hitters off balance all night.. He's well deserving of another start..

The defense.. putrid.. Lonnie Chisenhall has to make that pick if he's going to get ANY playing time at 1B. Aviles has to put the throw in the middle of the first baseman's chest.. The scorching line drive with the infield drawn in off the bat of Sierra.. never should have been.. That was the ball game.. One error cost one run & that's all the CWSox needed to complete the sweep..

Congrats to Big G.. he's making a remarkable contribution to a club in desperate need of contributors..

Onto the Rox.. they're one of the "surprise" teams in MLB right now.. and have a ton of hitters.. They don't seem to play all that well on the road, so that may help the Wahoos or at least give them an edge. The Rox are accustomed to playing in front of big crowds in Denver, so, they'll be in a foreign environment with the Friends and Family gatherings expected this weekend (TIC)..

Kluber/Bauer/Tomlin are next up for the Sons.. We'll see you at the ball yard Sunday..
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Thu May 29, 2014 9:34 am

"Big G" has 22 at-bats in 54 games this season and is hitting .136. I'm not sure why he's being congratulated for a "remarkable contribution".

He did hit a home run on a hanging changeup off a really bad pitcher, though.

Extremely frustrating team to watch. Aviles has been the only good infield defender this year, unless you count the handfull of games by Sellers. So last night he makes a horrible throw in the bottom of the 9th on a ball where he had time to set his feet and make an accurate throw. It puts the game-winning run on base.

16 errors by Indians' 3rd basemen this year and we're only a third of the way through the season. If this Urshela kid with the Gold Glove defense in Columbus can hit at all he might be manning the hot corner next year. That would push Chiz to DH and Santana to 1B, with Swisher being the odd man out. But then where do we put Aguilar if he's ready? And can we bench Swisher considering how much he's making? Nobody is going to take on that contract in a trade.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu May 29, 2014 12:21 pm

Prosecutor wrote:"Big G" has 22 at-bats in 54 games this season and is hitting .136. I'm not sure why he's being congratulated for a "remarkable contribution".

He did hit a home run on a hanging changeup off a really bad pitcher, though.

Extremely frustrating team to watch. Aviles has been the only good infield defender this year, unless you count the handfull of games by Sellers. So last night he makes a horrible throw in the bottom of the 9th on a ball where he had time to set his feet and make an accurate throw. It puts the game-winning run on base.

16 errors by Indians' 3rd basemen this year and we're only a third of the way through the season. If this Urshela kid with the Gold Glove defense in Columbus can hit at all he might be manning the hot corner next year. That would push Chiz to DH and Santana to 1B, with Swisher being the odd man out. But then where do we put Aguilar if he's ready? And can we bench Swisher considering how much he's making? Nobody is going to take on that contract in a trade.


Well.. you could be wrong about where Carlos ends up.. he might be moved to where Hermie has been pounding his drum for some time.. to the OF. Lonnie can go out there with him if for no other reason than he can. Carlos can't be any worse there than anyplace else on the diamond.. If he doesn't start hitting..who cares where he plays as long as he doesn't have Chief Wahoo on his sleeve.. As far as Urshela goes.. he's the goods with the glove.. he's also showing he can hit some.. It should be an interesting dynamic in the coming months and years.. Jesus Aguilar.. just doesn't appear to be ready right now.. It might be that the game hasn't slowed down for him yet.. and it may never do that.. but as of right now.. he's got that "deer in the headlights" approach at the plate.. He does seem to be pretty comfortable around the bag at 1B.. though.. that is true enough...

2 homers in 22 AB's.. battling injuries as a forty something elder statesman and good club house influence. etc.. in my book..is remarkable.. Would I prefer Manny in his prime.. sure.. Got any Manny's down on the farm that can be plugged into the lineup?....
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sat May 31, 2014 8:41 am

2 homers in 22 AB's.. battling injuries as a forty something elder statesman and good club house influence. etc.. in my book..is remarkable.. Would I prefer Manny in his prime.. sure.. Got any Manny's down on the farm that can be plugged into the lineup?....


That's just it. He's got 22 AB's in one-third of a season. Even hitting a HR every 11 AB's is not going to help the team at that rate.

"Good club house influence". Sure. But what this team needs is some run producers. They've scored 3 runs or less in approximately 50% of their games, and their record in those games is abysmal. Giambi's influence in the club house apparently does not translate into hits and runs on the field, and if it doesn't, what good is it?

His fatherly influence also isn't translating into any kind of acceptable defense, as the Tribe is the worst defensive team in baseball. It's so bad they're being referred to as Team Clank.

The team is in last place mainly due to horrible defense (which Giambi can't do anything about) and very inconsistent offense (which he can't help much if he only gets 66 at-bats this year).

I respect Big G and I acknowledge that he can still punish mistakes by right-handed pitchers, but that's really all he can do now, and he can't do that very often because he has a hard time staying healthy when he plays at all.

We also have a logjam with Chisenhall, Santana, Swisher, and Giambi - four players for three positions (3B, 1B, DH). The logjam is keeping Aguilar in the minors except when two of them are injured, like right now.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Sat May 31, 2014 11:06 pm

The problem with 3b defense is simple. The position is manned by a revolving door of players. This approach prevents a single player from getting into a groove at the position. I think it is time to put Chiz at 3b for an extended period and see what happens. Alternately, it is time like Gordon at KC to move him to the OF.

That begs the question of how the team is structured and how it can be changed. IMO Bourne has trade value and could be dealt. That moves Brantly to CF and opens a spot for Chiz in the OF.


Prosecutor wrote:"Big G" has 22 at-bats in 54 games this season and is hitting .136. I'm not sure why he's being congratulated for a "remarkable contribution".

He did hit a home run on a hanging changeup off a really bad pitcher, though.

Extremely frustrating team to watch. Aviles has been the only good infield defender this year, unless you count the handfull of games by Sellers. So last night he makes a horrible throw in the bottom of the 9th on a ball where he had time to set his feet and make an accurate throw. It puts the game-winning run on base.

16 errors by Indians' 3rd basemen this year and we're only a third of the way through the season. If this Urshela kid with the Gold Glove defense in Columbus can hit at all he might be manning the hot corner next year. That would push Chiz to DH and Santana to 1B, with Swisher being the odd man out. But then where do we put Aguilar if he's ready? And can we bench Swisher considering how much he's making? Nobody is going to take on that contract in a trade.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Edible14 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:06 am

There's no issue with players not getting into "the groove" of playing 3B. Santana was being ridden as the everyday starting 3B from opening day, he wasn't really playing C or 1B unless they needed him to move there to rest guys, because nobody else on the team could play those positions. He was not very good. He was not a trainwreck that might have been predicted in the off-season by those skeptical of a guy making a position change at the major league level, but he's not going to be good. If he gets his bat right and gets more time there, he'll be good enough offensively to compensate for his defensive shortcomings.

Chisenhall has had two years to be an everyday 3B, and he's never been good with the glove. The issue is not time and reps for him. He's just not a very good defensive third baseman. He likely never will be.

And Aviles is a utility guy. He's not supposed to be playing there regularly. He doesn't have the bat for it, and given that he plays an average-ish 2B and SS (far more premium defensive positions), he really shouldn't be focusing on 3B either. He's being pressed into it now because of the injury to Santana, but it's not his position. He should be focusing on SS, in the very possible scenario that he's asked to become our everyday SS either later this year or at the beginning of next year. That's his best position defensively, it's where his bat profiles best, and it's where we will need him while Lindor gets

As for Bourn being dealt if the Tribe drops too far out of it this year (along with Masterson and Cabby presumably). If they trade Bourn, they go into next year with only $41M committed in salary, with the only notable arbitration cases being Chisenhall, Tomlin and possibly McAllister if he's Super Two eligible. Everyone else eligible for arbitration is a reliever (Axford, Carrasco, Shaw, Atchison, Hagadone, Pestano, Outman, and Scrabble could all potentially be arby eligible, but obviously at least a few of those names would probably end up non-tendered/DFA'd/traded instead). They'd also have a $3.5M option on Aviles. You'd likely end up with a payroll between $55-$65M just from keeping arby guys around and kicking out veterans. That sounds good, until you realize that unless Bauer, Kluber, Salazar, McAllister AND Tomlin all become stable rotation hands, you'd have some significant holes to fill in the rotation. As well as SS and CF. The Indians wouldn't have enough to get someone good enough to really fill in at *one* of those positions, let alone all three. At SS, you're good waiting for Lindor. But you're not likely waiting for Naquin in the same way, and you're not finding a better CFer for as cheap as you have Bourn under contract. And given the price of starters, it's not like that money could get you a starter who wouldn't have question marks.

I don't think Bourn fetches much in a trade anyway. But realistically, there's not a compelling reason to trade him just to trade him. His contract is not horrible and he's filling a position that's historically very hard to fill.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:47 am

I don't think Bourn is tradable because he has two more years on his contract at $12 million per year, if I'm not mistaken. He no longer steals bases at all and at 31 he's on the downside of his career. His OBP of .329 is right on his career average, but without stealing bases he's no longer an above average offensive player.

His OPS of .720 (career .701) is OK for a centerfielder, but he's no longer a Gold Glove defender or a base stealer, so that leaves only his bat, and I doubt anybody is willing to pay that much for what Bourn brings to the table. Especially since he's starting to develop hamstring problems and his performance stands a good chance of declining further over the next 2.5 seasons.

He's hitting only .191 against lefties and is striking out a lot against them, so he's almost to the point of being a platoon player.

I'd like to see the Tribe sit him against lefties, move Brantley to center, and put Chiz in left. That opens up 3rd for Santana, first for Swisher, and DH for Aguilar.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:58 pm

For the past two weeks.. all Bourn has done is rip the cover off the ball.. he's got an OBP over .450 during that time.. He's settling in and making the plays defensively..

It's not time to fix it.. it aint broke..

Chiz.. will be a fine addition to the corner infield rotation..as long as he keeps having his name penciled into the lineup everyday.. I don't care where he plays.. He is having a break out season.. If he were in NY or Chicago or LA.. Billboards for hair gel and car commercials would have his likeness telling you all about how great it is to drive a Toyota convertible with the top down without having your hair mussed up..

Leave HIM alone..

The guy who's failing.. and failing miserably is Carlos Santana.. It might be because his brain was slightly scrambled.. or he might be pressing.. Either way..a step back.. a reassessment and a return to fundamentals with the help of Sandy and Ty Van Barking Dog should do him wonders.. Put a healthy and effective C-San in this lineup, and the Sons of Geronimo score 7 to 9 runs every night..

Onto the red sox.. hopefully they aren't steamrolling everyone after their 10 game losing streak.. followed by a 7 game winning streak.. No Lester. and No Rubby..WTH is a RUBBY????????
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:56 pm

Rich Passan at Yahoo Sports had this to say about the coming trading deadline involving the Indians:

"...9. Justin Masterson can get back to pitching like a frontline guy instead of someone who lost 3 mph off his fastball and forgot how to command his pitches, perhaps he'll join the group of desirable pitchers.

Then again, with Corey Kluber and Trevor Bauer looking every bit of such top-end guys, and Josh Tomlin a brand-new man, Masterson being Masterson and some bullpen help would leave the Indians as every bit the contenders they were last season. Michael Brantley's star turn is legit, Lonnie Chisenhall is figuring things out, the David Murphy signing plays, and if Cleveland cares to flip pending free agent Asdrubal Cabrera for pieces and go with 20-year-old Francisco Lindor (who one scout deems "more than ready"), all the better.

One way or another, Masterson is headed to free-agent land, the appetizer to Scherzer and Lester and ..."

It appears that, on the face of this article, Passan is saying regardless of the status of the Indians as it relates to the pennant race, that Masterson (and or Asdrubal), could be dangled as trade bait to return what is needed to help the squad.

What could that be?.. anyone have an idea? or two?..
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:39 pm

Well... that was 2 hours and 22 minutes of pure enjoyable baseball.. Why can't all games go like that.. Nice W.. onto game two...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:56 am

Then again, with Corey Kluber and Trevor Bauer looking every bit of such top-end guys, and Josh Tomlin a brand-new man, Masterson being Masterson and some bullpen help would leave the Indians as every bit the contenders they were last season.


It sounds like he is saying that if Masterson returns to being the Masterson of last year, the Tribe would be legitimate playoff contenders and there would be no thought of trading him.

I don't think they would trade Asdrubal, either. It wouldn't be fair to bring up Lindor and expect him to start at a critical position as a rookie on a team making a playoff run. Besides, Asdrubal's defense has improved recently. I still don't like his bat, but he hit a home run and a RBI single in the last two games, and both were key hits in the wins.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Edible14 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:34 pm

I wouldn't trade Cabrera unless we're out of it. I don't want Lindor up here until sometime next year. Shortstops, especially speedy, defensive-first shortstops, historically age well. We bring him up this year we lose him at age 27 - *the* peak year for shortstops. I want that extra year with him. To me, the guy who immediately replaces Cabrera this year would be Aviles or Sellers. Which you don't do unless you're out of it.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:07 pm

Edible14 wrote:I wouldn't trade Cabrera unless we're out of it. I don't want Lindor up here until sometime next year. Shortstops, especially speedy, defensive-first shortstops, historically age well. We bring him up this year we lose him at age 27 - *the* peak year for shortstops. I want that extra year with him. To me, the guy who immediately replaces Cabrera this year would be Aviles or Sellers. Which you don't do unless you're out of it.


I'm not sure why people automatically assume if we traded Cabrera at the deadline that Lindor would then come up.. I don't think that's the case at all. Aviles would probably become the starting SS and you might have Jose Ramirez then become the utility man.. JMO.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:59 am

Well, you wouldn't call this one anything other that what it was.. A "W"..

The Pitching House: TJ House pitched okay.. he didn't have any blow up innings.. two runs two walks four k's in nearly six innings.. About what you can expect from a back of the rotation starter.. It would be nice if he could get into the 7th inning or later.. but, maybe the next start..

Building a House..starts with a foundation.. five rock solid blocks to start the game.. top of the order was fine like red wine.. and then.. not much.. an okay rest of the game.. Hanging a 3 spot could only have been better if Raburn hadn't been put in the lineup for some unknown and inexplicable reason.. Raburn has resorted to the guy the Tigers let go.. not the guy who focused and put up quality at bats all of 2013.. The Indians need that guy back..

Lonnie is "okay" at 1B.. not great.. not bad.. just okay..

The Pen.. was better than OKAY.. Hagadone faced five guys.. one solid single & three K's.. You can see his confidence blooming.. Cody Allen.. got the K on his boyhood hero he wanted last night.. and, the save.. doin his job.. bein the okay closer he is..

Good win..series sweep chance is upon our Sons of Geronimo.. We'll be there to see it in person.. Go Tribe !!
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:17 am

Edible14 wrote:I wouldn't trade Cabrera unless we're out of it. I don't want Lindor up here until sometime next year. Shortstops, especially speedy, defensive-first shortstops, historically age well. We bring him up this year we lose him at age 27 - *the* peak year for shortstops. I want that extra year with him. To me, the guy who immediately replaces Cabrera this year would be Aviles or Sellers. Which you don't do unless you're out of it.


As Zajac said, Aviles is the guy they likely turn to as starting SS if they deal Asdrubal, not Lindor. Plus the gap between Cabrera and Aviles is really not that wide at all...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Chiefroy » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:22 am

Well, assuming we DO fall out of contention and we DO trade Cabrera, I think we SHOULD see Lindor called up. Maybe not right away, maybe not until September....but I think he almost has to considered our opening day SS for 2015 and I'd like him to get his feet wet this year.

If what I've heard is true, his defense is ML ready. Even if we are still in contention and Cabrera is still on the team, Lindor could still be a September callup and used a late-inning defensive replacement or pinch-runner. Whatever the case, I'd like him to start developing a rapport with his future double-play partner Kipnis. Any work they can get together this year gives them a head start on next year.

If he hadn't faced AAA pitching yet, well he'll see some of them in Sept. anyway. I'm not worried about service time or whatever; if this kid is the real deal, we'll lock him up after a couple of years at minimum salary.

(As I type this, Asdrubal with a walkoff jack! Attaboy! Keep hitting baby and somebody gonna pay you good next year!) :smile
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:41 am

I don't think if the Tribe does trade ACab that Lindor is coming up to Cleveland. Seems more reasonable they'd simply call up Jose Ramirez and promote Lindor to AAA. I think they may want him to get exp. there, plus control his mlb clock.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:51 am

musings on a sweet sweeeeep...

Well..the result was good.. It sure seemed as if Kluber didn't have his best stuff last night.. maybe he was off a bit from the delay.. or the weather or the Red Sox approach.. whatever, he didn't seem to be as sharp.. during his entire outing. Maybe some warm weather will beset him for his next start in KC?.. we'll see..

Hagadone has changed from the guy I saw last year.. Whoever this imposter is..can pitch on my team any day.. His fastball command is just nasty. The slider he throws has as much depth as Raffy Left's. If not for so much movement, he should throw that pitch to every LH'er he faces. Starting it at their eyes and watch the bottom drop out as it bounces into the catcher.

Asdrubal was great last night.. no other way to describe his night.. He seemed to have a "second gear" focus working. He was on every pitch.. when he missed his pitch.. he'd cuss up a storm.. I've never seen him that intense before...

Kipnis' Ballet: WTF !!!.. The pirouette was special.. the throw was better.. I sat in my seat in awe of that play.. Seemed like there were quite a few defensive gems last night.. Dr Smooth at the wall (from where I sat, it looked like he trapped it..but it wasn't ruled that way)...

Umpires & AJ.. What a WHINER !! Almost all of the Boston Red Sox players are world class whiners.. Every time they had a call at the plate go against them they whined.. even Grady whined.. terrible to see..

With the Tigers losing (again), the Indians and the rest of the AL Central now find themselves all within five games of the lead and the basement. The 30-30 record is exactly the same as 2013..

A day without a baseball game.. but the draft begins around 6 pm.. should go until 11'ish...by which time, four potentially new tribe farm hands will be identified.. I hope all four throw the ball hard for a living..

Nice game.. shitty cold and wet weather.. it will be hot and windy in Texas.. Trevor Bauer v Yu Darvish in the opener.. does it get any better?...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:16 am

Hagadone has changed from the guy I saw last year.. Whoever this imposter is..can pitch on my team any day.. His fastball command is just nasty. The slider he throws has as much depth as Raffy Left's. If not for so much movement, he should throw that pitch to every LH'er he faces. Starting it at their eyes and watch the bottom drop out as it bounces into the catcher.


Not so fast. He came in last night to get a lefty out with a runner on first and walked him on four pitches, none of them close.

You still have no idea what you're going to get when he takes the mound. Some nights he's great, some nights he's got nothing. His career is hanging in the balance. Crockett is on his way. If Hagadone finishes out the season without showing significant improvement I see the Indians taking him out of their plans and moving on.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:54 am

TJ House gets the start in the finale this evening and will face Nick Martinez, a 23 year old RHP that has been yo-yo's into and out of the pen/starting rotation this season. He's a good fill in SP that has been able to go no more than 6 innings in any one of his six starts.. The Rangers seem to be keeping his pitch count low, so working the count could get him out of the game early.. With the win last night, a nail biting 3-2 just enough done game, the Indians have secured a series split.. a W tonight would make this a series win.. The team appears to be gel'ing with the starting pitching staff leading the way.. Bro-Hio boy will be back soon, so, the offense could be given another shot of goodness.. Carlos Santana seems to be edging toward getting back to respectability.. His bat is very much needed if this team is going to be a serious contender as they are now a game over .500 and just three games back of the Tigers.. The Indians will miss Shields in KC, but will have Ace Ventura v Kluber-Lang and Jeremy "I used to be an Indian" Guthrie going against Trevor Bauer-POWER in the matinee/finale of the brief two game set.. Should be an interesting start to the week..
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Chiefroy » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:50 pm

Getting a chance to watch the finale on Fox SW....House in the first tossed a lot of pitches/fouls, doesn't seem to have a swing-and-miss pitch...Tribe bats erupted on Martinez... ChisKid stays hot with a blast, Hermie's boy Kottaras with his 3rd homer in only 5 ABs....House wild in the 3rd, couldn't find the plate, when he did start tossing strikes, Rangers hit 'em hard...Chis unable to make a play on two hot shots to either side of him...Kottaras fails to block a pitch that goes to the backstop a run scores. Oh well. 9-4 after 3.

Tribe comes right back in the 4th...Chis with #2 and Brantley joins him...House with a 12-4 lead and next batter he sees takes him deep...needs to make it thru 5 to get the W. Asdrubal boots an easy grounder...another blast past Chis, can't fault him on this one....House gone, Atch in. Good thing we're hittin' and our PS leads MLB in K's, cuz our infield D ain't too spiffy.

Atch K's the first guy he faces, now an Atch-Choo matchup...groundout to Kip, attaboy...12-6 Tribe with 5 to go and I'm tired of typing. Go Tribe. :cool
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Chiefroy » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:05 am

Vote Chisenhall for All-Star Game.....and Brantley and Kluber. :)
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:45 am

Chiefroy wrote:Vote Chisenhall for All-Star Game.....and Brantley and Kluber. :)


Can't vote for Kluber because he's a pitcher. Will be voting for Brantley, Chisenhall, and Gomes though. Hell, who am i kidding, I still vote for every Tribe player at every position like when I was a kid :biggrin
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:02 pm

The fact that Jeter is leading at SS in AS voting is a joke. I understand it's his last year and all, but still...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:53 pm

A.Zajac wrote:The fact that Jeter is leading at SS in AS voting is a joke. I understand it's his last year and all, but still...


It's only a joke because the All-Star game is no longer fully an exhibition game (since it decides WS homefield).

All-Star games are supposed to 100% about the fans. if the fans want to see Jeter then he absolutely should star the All-STAR game. Personally don't want him in the game but don't have an issue with him leading and probably winning the starting SS spot.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:59 am

Last night's game: Pathetic defensive display last night.. The Indians gave away three runs.. just gave them away.. Where was the focus?.. where was the hunger?.. They didn't have it. maybe they were too tired from running around the bases 17 times Monday night?..

Kluber deserved better..his front door breaking ball to RH hitters was lethal...

Carlos Carrasco.. Enjoyable to watch him take the hill and pitch.. not nibble..not try to trick hitters.. to pitch.. CC had some balls hit hard. I thought the Sal Perez fly ball to LF, tracked down by Dr Smooth was going out when he hit it.. Long man role appears to suit CC well.. perhaps with some experience.. he'll be given another shot at starting.. spot starting..etc.. would be a good means to an end.. If nothing else, his floor will be as an effective bullpen pitcher..

Hagadone... when his curve ball isn't getting in the zone... he stops throwing it..and relies exclusively on his fastball.. THIS IS BAD.. Yan has to keep putting down two fingers.. make Hags throw the hook.. Hags cannot be effective without it.. I would rather see the bases walked full than have the batters know that the only pitch they need to worry about is his straight fastball...like the one Alex Gordon hit over the wall in right center..

Nice little rally at the end of the game to make the score respectable.. not much more than that.. and now to the matinee.. The Kid versus the Younger Kid... Two future aces?.. should be a great matchup...

INRE All Star Game: I would love to see Indian players appointed and or voted in.. With Tito on the staff.. there's a better than just maybe chance for that to occur.. Once on the team.. I would appreciate having them watch the entire night.. not get in the game.. just rest/relax, take in the experience. The Indians can ill afford anyone being 'damaged' in an exhibition of baseball..

Thoughts?..
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:14 pm

Swisher tried to pull and outside pitch with a runner in scoring position. That kind of creap IMO is plain STUPID and in private he should be called on it. We won without Swisher and Santana - now they are back.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:11 am

Just a poor game.. when the chances were there.. the Indians didn't execute.. when the Sox had a chance..they got the job done (with a lot of help from the Indian's poor defense, mostly poor throws).. This team cannot afford to give the opponent four outs in an inning..

Nick Hagadone.. is either afraid to throw his hook or can't throw his hook.. Either way, without it..he's a High A pitcher and needs to be sent there.. His fastball only approach is too predictable to permit him to come into any leverage situation..

Rick Manning was right.. when the runner (Jackie Bradley Jr.) was advanced to scoring position (stealing second and then advancing to third on a ground out).. the Indians needed to walk Ortiz.. The little cowboy gave Ortiz something to crush.. and he did..

Onto game two.. Masterson v Lackey.. this matchup should favor the Indians.. but..it's baseball, so we shall see..
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:31 pm

Will the Indians even offer Masterson a qualifying offer? Has there ever been a bigger fool than this guy when he turned down anything this spring?
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Chiefroy » Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:44 pm

Congrats to former Indian farmhand and 2003 1st round draft pick Brad Snyder. Hit major league career HR #1 today.
Hope he gets the ball back.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:36 pm

Leave on a ten game roadie at .500.. return from the ten game roadie at .500..

Start the roadie at 3 1/2 game behind division leading Detroit.. return 3 1/2 games behind Detroit..

Pretty successful roadie.. onto the Angels..
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:51 am

The Tribe was lucky to salvage those last two games in Boston after going 0-for-16 with RISP and leaving 23 runners on base in two games. House and Kluber were just OK but the bullpen came through with 9 1/3 scoreless innings. And Swick Nisher finally chipped in.

Bourn was 1-for-19 and is dead meat the instant he gets two strikes on him because the next pitch will be the curveball that he swings and misses every time.

Lonnie finally went into a slump. He's starting to press and chase pitches out of the zone. I blame it on Tito. Every since Tito decided to give him a day off he hasn't gotten a hit. Doesn't Tito know you don't mess with a streak? Lonnie had a 9-game hitting streak going until the day off. Since then he's 0-for-10.

The Indians ended the season 5-2 against the Red Socks, which is a huge improvement over last year's 1-6.

Now back home to face the 37-30 Angels, who have a better record in a tougher division. But we're at home against a right-handed pitcher (Weaver), so there's always a chance.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:06 am

Bearcatbob wrote:Will the Indians even offer Masterson a qualifying offer? Has there ever been a bigger fool than this guy when he turned down anything this spring?


If he's healthy you definitely offer a QO.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby criznit2009 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:33 am

Hermie13 wrote:
Bearcatbob wrote:Will the Indians even offer Masterson a qualifying offer? Has there ever been a bigger fool than this guy when he turned down anything this spring?


If he's healthy you definitely offer a QO.



I don't think this is as cut and dry as you think. They didn't offer Kazmir a QO and he had a far better year last year than Masterson is having this year. If he has a strong 2nd half then the answer is yes, but if he keeps going at this pace I wouldn't. He would almost have to accept it at this point and that is poorly spent money for a team like the Indians. Rather then fork over 15 mil for one season I'd consider throwing out a multi year deal for 2-3 around 9+ mil a season if I was gonna to try to bring him back in any scenario.

Let him test F.A, sure starting pitching is never cheap but the tribe has to be. I think 15 million-ish could be spent much better when you're talking about how much it would cost to bring back Masterson for a single year.

We have seen how declining a QO has bitten "suspect" players in the butt recently. He wouldn't turn it down, unless he plays like an all-star from now until the end of the season. And then you offer one and then..... Etc.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:17 am

criznit2009 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Bearcatbob wrote:Will the Indians even offer Masterson a qualifying offer? Has there ever been a bigger fool than this guy when he turned down anything this spring?


If he's healthy you definitely offer a QO.



I don't think this is as cut and dry as you think. They didn't offer Kazmir a QO and he had a far better year last year than Masterson is having this year. If he has a strong 2nd half then the answer is yes, but if he keeps going at this pace I wouldn't. He would almost have to accept it at this point and that is poorly spent money for a team like the Indians. Rather then fork over 15 mil for one season I'd consider throwing out a multi year deal for 2-3 around 9+ mil a season if I was gonna to try to bring him back in any scenario.

Let him test F.A, sure starting pitching is never cheap but the tribe has to be. I think 15 million-ish could be spent much better when you're talking about how much it would cost to bring back Masterson for a single year.

We have seen how declining a QO has bitten "suspect" players in the butt recently. He wouldn't turn it down, unless he plays like an all-star from now until the end of the season. And then you offer one and then..... Etc.


Again, if he's healthy he gets a QO. No question about it. I'd rather give him 1yr/$15M than a multi-year deal at this point.

Kazmir was out of baseball for a few years, totally different scenarios.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:27 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
criznit2009 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Bearcatbob wrote:Will the Indians even offer Masterson a qualifying offer? Has there ever been a bigger fool than this guy when he turned down anything this spring?


If he's healthy you definitely offer a QO.



I don't think this is as cut and dry as you think. They didn't offer Kazmir a QO and he had a far better year last year than Masterson is having this year. If he has a strong 2nd half then the answer is yes, but if he keeps going at this pace I wouldn't. He would almost have to accept it at this point and that is poorly spent money for a team like the Indians. Rather then fork over 15 mil for one season I'd consider throwing out a multi year deal for 2-3 around 9+ mil a season if I was gonna to try to bring him back in any scenario.

Let him test F.A, sure starting pitching is never cheap but the tribe has to be. I think 15 million-ish could be spent much better when you're talking about how much it would cost to bring back Masterson for a single year.

We have seen how declining a QO has bitten "suspect" players in the butt recently. He wouldn't turn it down, unless he plays like an all-star from now until the end of the season. And then you offer one and then..... Etc.


Again, if he's healthy he gets a QO. No question about it. I'd rather give him 1yr/$15M than a multi-year deal at this point.

Kazmir was out of baseball for a few years, totally different scenarios.


If he doesn't sign a reasonable contract with the Indians prior to becoming a FA at the end of the season (hopefully, some time in November), then a QO is almost assured. One year isn't a bad deal.. There is a likelihood he accepts it... If he keeps pitching like he has.. he will.. There is a pretty good chance that a team like the Cubs could make him a nice deal.. They need a work horse and they won't be forfeiting their first round pick.. so, it will only cost them a second w/ the QO offered by the Indians....
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