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Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

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Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:24 pm

Nasty Masty looking good early on!
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:24 pm

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Not sure I get the logic. He's not a core player at all “@SBrake34: @keithlaw thoughts on Yan Gomes deal?”
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:41 am

Still pretty confused on that play at the plate with Brantley. Sure looked like Jaso had his foot on the base line blocking the runners path to the plate well before he had the ball....

The old rule he'd have been fine as he was "in the act" of receiving the ball but the new rule seemed pretty clear, no blocking the plate without the ball in the glove. He did...yet Brantley still ruled out (could clearly tell he changed his slide due to how Jaso was blocking the plate). Not a fan of this new rule at all. Not enough time to really explain it to everyone and get players prepared to change their approach.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:44 am

Hermie13 wrote:Still pretty confused on that play at the plate with Brantley. Sure looked like Jaso had his foot on the base line blocking the runners path to the plate well before he had the ball....

The old rule he'd have been fine as he was "in the act" of receiving the ball but the new rule seemed pretty clear, no blocking the plate without the ball in the glove. He did...yet Brantley still ruled out (could clearly tell he changed his slide due to how Jaso was blocking the plate). Not a fan of this new rule at all. Not enough time to really explain it to everyone and get players prepared to change their approach.


IMO, the way the rule is written, I thought Brantley should have been safe too. Jaso was clearly blocking the plate before Brantley got there... but the rebuttal was that he had the ball by the time Brantley slid.

Honestly, I think this rule is just complete crap to begin with.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby daingean » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:02 pm

i understand both sides of the argument. I like the rule about not blocking the plate ...... think about it.......home plate is the only base where you see guys blocking it. I would say that catchers should provide a path whether or not they have the ball or not.......it's that way in every level of baseball except the majors/minors.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:10 am

Dain..you'll see a knee drop at second base, especially when the runner goes into a head first slide.. it fails to approach the "malicious" contact threshold that's being discussed, but, there is some base-blocking going on..

From the early season..it looks like catchers are, for the most part, no longer setting up in the base path thereby inviting malicious contact. The swipe tag and collision avoidance approach seems more prevalent.. Perhaps, this was the overall intent of the rule change or emphasis. The rest of it.. interpretation..etc.. will be a continually evolving issue..

We'll see..
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:14 am

Brilliant signing by CA and the Indians.. it's gonna be nice to see Kipper as part of the middle infield for years to come.. Good for him and his family.. good for the Indians & Indian Fans !
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby theshow » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:36 am

GeronimoSon wrote:Brilliant signing by CA and the Indians.. it's gonna be nice to see Kipper as part of the middle infield for years to come.. Good for him and his family.. good for the Indians & Indian Fans !


Yeah this is the type of deal that the Indians need to be able to get done. Like the Rays did with Archer, if you can lock your guys up 1 or 2 years past arbitration you are pretty much getting them their entire prime. Kipnis if his options are picked up will not be a free agent until he is 33/34, by then you probably don't want to retain his services anymore anyway. When Kipnis, Brantley, and Santana reach those higher yearly money figures, you hope player development can harvest you some more pre-arbitration players to balance out the payroll but these type of signings buy you time, and help make sure you are consistently competing and don't have seasons like 2010 where you are not a contender from day 1.

The unbelievable thing is this is the first all-star the Indians have drafted since CC Sabathia! You think of all the great young players the Indians have traded for-Choo, Santana, Hafner, Brantley, Sizemore, Lee, Phillips, Cabrera, ect and you realize that this would be one of the elite franchise in baseball if they werent THE WORST at drafting. Now with Lindor in the fold, and Frazier a pick that seems to make sense and you can't blame them for, it seems like the tables are turning. But still-early misses like Dillon Howard make me think things are not that much better.

Which brings me to Masterson. It is not my money, and I do not know how much money the Indians have to pay out. However, I really think 2 years and 35 million for Masty is not a huge risk. You simply don't have FOR guys in your system, and I feel like in order to really contend you need a true or near true #1 starter. I am not for giving Justin 5 or 6 years, but I would be willing to bet 2 years at 17.5 MM is a fair gamble which carries risk but not crippling risk.

Final point is Gomes. I think Gomes will regress at the plate, but based on the defense alone I have seen I think the deal is wise. You get people like Keith Law who don't value a player like Gomes, but people on the outside don't notice how well he handles our pitching staff. I think sometimes you have to trust your own evaluation of a guy, and sometimes industry guys can be unfair to players who don't posses an elite tool and weren't rated high as prospects. Law considers Joey Wendle simply an organizational guy, but until the kid stops hitting, I value him as someone who may be able to contribute at the ML level someday. In closing, it's opening day... Go Tribe!!!
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Edible14 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:57 pm

They aren't going to say it publicly, but I think Masterson is gone by year's end. They've locked up who they need to lock up, and they're going to be okay taking the compensatory pick for Masty. I don't think they have the money to pick up Masterson at market rate, and I certainly don't think they'll be keen on giving him a longer deal when they already have so much money locked up long-term. I'd be happier with that if Kluber and Salazar take a step up this year. Salazar pitched pretty well last night I thought, despite the no-decision. Obviously, if Bauer steps up and becomes a legit MLB starter that will help as well.

I'd be on the lookout for the tribe trading for a starter, though. They've got some prospects to play with, and at this point the lineup looks relatively set for the next two years.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:22 pm

You are correct.. At the end of the year, after the parade.. that decision will be made. W/R to the Compensatory Pick: The value of a prospect and the addition to the draft pool.. is a critical component of the Indians future, both on the field and in the front office. The Indians must be able to evaluate the talent and continuously have more than one option at the ready (both through draft and develop as well as astute trades) to fill or replace whoever leaves.. Your example of Trevor Bauer... could be one option. Hopefully, more will emerge.... This team is pretty well set for the next few years. That kind of stability is HUGE for the Indians.. Congrats to Kip (and the Indians FO/Ownership) for getting another solid to spectacular deal done..
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:50 pm

Bauer pitched pretty well in his one outing.. Tomlin..didn't, also, in one outing. The DL stints for Michael Bourn and Big G will come to an end soon and it looks like Tito may be losing his 8th reliever.. Vinnie P.. something is clearly not the same.. Tony Plush & the Chiz have, imho, earned a longer stay with the club. Should be a fun game tomorrow.. Game # 1.. for this season...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:57 pm

After six games...

Nyger Morgan has done a nice job replacing Bourn. His OBP is .500. Can't ask for more than that from a leadoff hitter. He can run once he gets on base, too.

Chisenhall appears to be relaxed and locked in at the plate. He's only had 11 AB's, all against righties, but he's hitting .455 with a 1.227 OPS. He's not going after bad pitches early in the count like he was most of last year. It's very early, but he hit well in September, so maybe something has finally clicked. He just looks more selective at the plate and is laying off the teasers until he gets something he can handle.

Santana has an OBP of .519, with 8 walks already in only 6 games. If this keeps up Brantley is going to get a ton of RBI opportunities. Not that Santana will continue to have an OBP north of .500, but they are definitely pitching around him. That puts a lot of pressure on Brantley to make them pay.

Swisher is swinging the bat well. It looks like those shoulder problems are behind him, and since he won't be asked to play outfield this year, he could have a normal Swisher year at the plate.

Asdrubal is 3-for-19 and continues to hack at the first pitch most of the time. He'll never change. Maybe the hits will start falling when the weather heats up. He had a big hit in the win over the Twins, though.

Indians starters have logged 29 1/3 innings in six starts - less than five innings per start. We might need a 9-man bullpen if this keeps up.

So far so good for the bullpen except for My Cousin Vinnie, and Wood's bad inning today.

Seven of the Twins 10 runs today were on base via a walk or hit batter. The Indians pitchers screwed themselves.

Achison looks like the best pitcher on the staff so far. I wonder if he can move into the rotation if Carrasco implodes and neither Bauer or Tomlin is getting it done in Columbus.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:23 pm

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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:54 pm

With the double header moved to Wednesday (and the beautiful weather that accompanies it), Trevor Bauer could be promoted as Mr 26th man for the day..and get the start. He lines right up....
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:04 am

The Tribe is lucky to be 3-3 considering they've been outscored 19-3 in the first three innings and they're hitting .191 with RISP.

The starters need to be ready to go in the first inning so we're not constantly playing from behind. And the hitting in the clutch needs to improve.

If those two things happen, this could be a heck of a team.

They'll be facing five left-handed starters in the next six games, if I'm not mistaken. Let's see how they do. Not much action for Chisenhall this week and we should see a lot of Santana at 3rd. Raburn could have a big week. He's off to a slow start so this could get him going.

I read Bauer could be starting today, so that will be interesting. I'm sure Carrasco will be paying attention.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:35 am

Prosecutor wrote:The Tribe is lucky to be 3-3 considering they've been outscored 19-3 in the first three innings and they're hitting .191 with RISP.

The starters need to be ready to go in the first inning so we're not constantly playing from behind. And the hitting in the clutch needs to improve.

If those two things happen, this could be a heck of a team.

They'll be facing five left-handed starters in the next six games, if I'm not mistaken. Let's see how they do. Not much action for Chisenhall this week and we should see a lot of Santana at 3rd. Raburn could have a big week. He's off to a slow start so this could get him going.

I read Bauer could be starting today, so that will be interesting. I'm sure Carrasco will be paying attention.


No, Bauer will be TOMORROW for the double header.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:09 pm

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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:52 am

A.Zajac wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:The Tribe is lucky to be 3-3 considering they've been outscored 19-3 in the first three innings and they're hitting .191 with RISP.

The starters need to be ready to go in the first inning so we're not constantly playing from behind. And the hitting in the clutch needs to improve.

If those two things happen, this could be a heck of a team.

They'll be facing five left-handed starters in the next six games, if I'm not mistaken. Let's see how they do. Not much action for Chisenhall this week and we should see a lot of Santana at 3rd. Raburn could have a big week. He's off to a slow start so this could get him going.

I read Bauer could be starting today, so that will be interesting. I'm sure Carrasco will be paying attention.


No, Bauer will be TOMORROW for the double header.


Yes, thanks for the correction.

Kluber was a little sharper in his second start, although he still gave up leadoff hits four innings in a row. But he didn't walk anybody and made it through six innings, so that's progress. Now we just need McAllister, Salazar and Carrasco to improve in their second starts.

By the way, why is Bauer starting today instead of Salazar? Isn't today Salazar's normal turn in the rotation?
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:10 am

Notes musings on a night at Progressive field... The friends and family gathering got to watch a reversal of sorts.. the Padres out hit, out errored, and out screwed up the Indians all night.. If not for Vinnie Pestano's glorious effort to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, this game could have been a complete reversal..

Lower half of the order is just pounding the ball.. everyone of those guys (add Nyjer Morgan as the 10th man) just hammered the ball all over the yard..

Special emphasis to Progressive Field Marvel, David "I CRUSH IT AT PROGRESSIVE" Murphy.. Murph entered the season hitting .365 at the Jake/Progressive.. he's adding to those numbers by posting a .429/.857/1.324 triple slash to start the season.. Horses for courses.. Hitting in your house.. this defines D-Murph..

Kluber was efficient.. professional.. stood out in a passive/aggressive sort of way.. didn't let an inning get out of hand...didn't walk anyone.. Threw strikes.. got six inning, shaved showered and shoved off.. Good deal..

Vinnie.. so lone Vinnie the P.. The zip on your FB is no longer enough to keep the wolves at bay.. Maybe, with some warm weather.. stretching out.. etc.. that zip may come back. but, 88 to 90 MPH FB's don't scare anyone. The slider, was effective.. that was the only plus taken from the outing...

Time for Droobs/Kipnis/Swisher to start hitting.. If someone would have said this group would have 14 hits in 76 AB's ( a combined .184) with 5 XBH, it would have been easy to see the Indians in the basement of the division in the early going.. These three guys have to put it together.. When they do, this team can go on a run..

Good evening for baseball...and a better one starting at noon.. let's play 2!.. Z-Mac on the hill for game one.. Trevor Bauer-POWER toes the slab for game two.. Pros..you're correct.. today would be Salazar's fifth day.. Perhaps the Indians front office is taking full advantage of the "Double Header Rule - 26th Man" slot to give Bauer a chance to show his stuff.. Could be nothing more than that...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:09 pm

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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:07 pm

Credible effort by the both Indians starters today...

Z-Mac was on top of his game.. was throwing his FB wherever he wanted it.. very nice.. Dirtbag with the dinger and that's all she wrote.. The Ax-Man with a little drama to finish it out..

Bauer was impressive in the second game..he was throwing quality strikes.. lots and lots of swing and miss and stayed in the moment.. He didn't let the Padres get into his head.. and they tried to.. over and over.. The defense was pretty much piss poor for him... also another "something" that could have distracted him.. but he let it go and went right after the next guy..

Good day..so far.. Indians trail 2-1 in the game..going to the top of the seventh...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Chiefroy » Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:26 pm

If Salazar had pitched today, that would have meant Carrasco on Thur., Masterson on Friday, and Kluber due Saturday on 3 days rest. We would've needed another starter then. Bauer was on schedule to pitch today + we got to use the 26-man rule and get another bullpen arm.

Great pitching today, just wish we had got another hit or two when we needed it.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:29 pm

The Padres have to be the worst offensive team in baseball. Those batting averages are putrid. They have now scored 20 runs in 9 games and are hitting .209 as a team. McAllister was throwing well, but you have to consider the opponent. Let's see what he does the next time out.

Too bad they lost the sweep but the performance by Bauer overshadowed the loss. He was hitting 95 and 96 on the same radar gun that had McAllister at 91. And that curveball was ridiculous. This outing has to give him a huge shot of confidence. Carrasco better get his stuff together or he'll be joining the bullpen.

I still can't understand why Elliot Johnson is on the team. He's an automatic out. Might as well put Johnny Damon or Aaron Cunningham out there.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby OhioBaseball » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:08 am

Very encouraging start of the season for Bauer. Regarding Prosecutor's mention of the Padres being a bad offensive team, I think that was a factor. They've got some good hitters on that team in Headley, Gyorko, Cabrera, Alonso, but none of those guys are hitting right now. If you watch Bauer's outing, some of those K's were on clearly hanging breaking balls which is a sign of poor hitting. I think he still has some things to work on, but at times that breaking ball was obviously a plus MLB pitch and seeing the velocity back is a positive.

Despite getting away with a few mistakes yesterday, it reminded me of him when he was at UCLA. Bauer is a very important player to this organization and if he can get back on track it's a huge tailwind for Cleveland.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:09 am

By the way, they need to tweak that rule about dropping a ball while transfering it out of the glove. I can see why they put it in. If the second baseman is trying to turn a double play and drops the ball while flipping it from his glove to throwing hand, the umpire had to determine whether the ball popped out of his glove (runner is safe) or whether the drop occurred during the transfer (runner is out). If the umpire was screened by the second basemen's body, he wouldn't be able to tell. In order to take the umpire's judgement out of the play they just decided that if the ball is dropped the runner is safe, no need for a judgement call.

But in the case where an outfielder catches a fly ball, takes a couple of steps toward the infield, and drops the ball while removing it from his glove, it makes no sense to rule the hitter safe. The way the rule is currently written, if an outfielder catches the ball, the umpire can't signal an out until the player removes the ball from his glove without dropping it. The rule does not include a time element. As currently written, if an outfielder catches a routine fly ball with nobody on base, then flips the ball up in the air with his glove but drops it while grabbing it with his bare hand, the hitter is safe, even if a couple of seconds elapse between the catch and the flip to the throwing hand.

They need to write the rule so it only is in effect when the fielder is trying to catch and throw in one motion in an attempt to throw a runner out, like on a double play, or catching a line drive and trying to double a runner off a base.

All hell is going to break loose if the outcome of a playoff or World Series game is changed because of a play like yesterday.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:29 am

From the time the ball hit Elliot Johnson's glove.. to the time he attempted to remove the ball and throw, he took five steps.. Going to extremes, why not fifty three steps, crossing the baseline by the third base bag.. drop the ball there..according to the way the rule is being enforced.. the batter is safe and everyone moves up a base..

Simply put, that was a bad interpretation of a rule that MLB issued a communique that was followed correctly by the umpiring crew.. Change it..

On those same lines regarding unintended consequences regarding rules... Further interpretation/clarification of the catcher/collision rule needs to be given. Right now, it appears the rule that was put in place to reduce collisions is working a wee bit toooo well from the catcher's point of view.. A base runner is going to crush a catcher blocking the plate with the ball pretty close/just arriving to his glove and the damage MLB intended to avoid will be real..
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby daingean » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:18 am

Prosecutor wrote:All hell is going to break loose if the outcome of a playoff or World Series game is changed because of a play like yesterday.


Only if the play eliminates certain teams: Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Tigers......if it eliminates the Blue Jays or Indians then it will get a big fat yawn.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:07 am

A.Zajac wrote:keithlaw ‏@keithlaw 8s
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I'd like to say "well he'll eventually just get hurt again"...but you know....Cleveland.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:08 am

I can't believe Salazar did something no pitcher has ever done, at least since 1900. Ten strikeouts in less than 4 innings. And against the best offensive team in baseball at the moment, no less.

Too bad he also gave up six hits and five runs. He just made a few bad pitches to the wrong guys, but otherwise he was dominant. Unfortunately, against a team like the White Sox you only need to make 4 or 5 bad pitches out of 93 to get beat. This offense is relentless. They scored in six consecutive innings tonight.

Salazar still needs to improve his consistency, but the stuff he has is electric. It's incredible to think he did something that Ryan, Koufax, even Walter Johnson never did. And he's what - 22 years old? The sky is the limit.

Well, the Tribe is 0-2 against the Sox. They just need to win the next 17 to match last year's record. Shouldn't be a problem.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:52 am

Nice win over the White Sox 12-6 on a day when Masterson didn't have his best stuff. Great clutch hitting by Brantley, Raburn and Murphy. The bullpen went 4 1/3 innings allowing no runs and only one hit.

The bullpen lineup of Shaw in the 7th, Cody Allen in the 8th, and Axford in the 9th is looking really good so far. Allen in particular has been dominating.

Now we just need the starters to pitch six innings for a change. For some reason they are all struggling in the first inning. Masterson had a 3-0 lead but gave it all back in the bottom of the first.

Masterson wasn't as bad as his line looked, though. The blown double play by Aviles cost him a couple of runs and made him throw a lot more pitches. And the missed tag at the plate by Santana cost him another run. With average defense he probably would have gone six innings allowing two runs.

Asdrubal came up with the bases loaded and one out in the 7th and fouled out on the first pitch, chasing a pitch well out of the strike zone. Some old Asdrubal - hacks at the first pitch almost every time. Reminded me of him killing our rally in the Wild Card game last year by grounding into a DP on the first pitch.

He sure is locked in hitting right-handed, though. And Quintana is going for the Sox today.

It's only 12 games, but Santana might be the only player I've seen who's hitting under .200 with an OBP of over .400. Pitchers don't want anything to do with him.

Finally, Nyjer Morgan is better than Bourn. He has a tiny strike zone, and he can handle the bat.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:02 am

After 12 games....

The Tribe is extremely lucky to be 6-6 considering:

1. Four of their five starters have an ERA of 5.87 or worse.

2. Key run producers Santana, Swisher, and Cabrera are averaging a combined .194, with the highest at .205.

3. The defense has been shaky at best. Gomes has already made three errors. Brantley dropped a routine fly ball to end his errorless streak. Santana butchered an easy ground ball. Swisher dropped an easy throw. Asdrubal has the range of a postage stamp. Any ground ball to the left side has at least a 50-50 chance of going into left field. Even Masterson complained about it after yesterday's game.

On the positive side, Chisenhall is hitting .400 and Nyjer Morgan has an OBP of .484. The Tribe has won 5 of the 7 games he started. Obviously, neither of them will keep it up, but like Mark Reynolds last April, you need somebody to get hot early until the main guys get going.

The David Murphy signing is looking great so far. The Tribe could do really well against right-handed pitching this year. They could field a 9-man lefty lineup with Brantley, Murphy, and Bourn or Morgan in the OF; Chiz, AC, Kipnis, and Swisher in the INF, Santana at catcher and Giambi at DH.

The biggest problem so far, as I see it, is the starters not being able to consistently get through the first inning with no damage. In 12 games they've allowed 13 runs. In fact, 22% of the opponents' runs have been scored in the first inning. As a result, Tribe starters are throwing an excessive number of pitches in the 1st inning which limits how far they can go. I don't know if any starter has made it to the 7th since the first game. Maybe the cold weather is a factor.

The bullpen has been exceptional with the exceptions of Pestano and Wood, who have combined to allow 9 of the bullpen's 14 earned runs so far. Vinnie has been replaced already with CC Lee. I think Wood will only be used in low leverage situations until he either gets straightened out or is moved out. I expect he'll be moved out by the end of the month. Once both Pestano and Wood are replaced with better options, the bullpen could be one of the best in the league. Especially once the starters are going deeper into games.

As the season goes on, the guys that are hot will cool off and guys like Swisher, Santana, and AC will start hitting. The offense should be above average. If the starters can overcome their 1st inning problems, this team could win another 90 games.

One thing that won't change is the serious defensive problem on the left side of the infield with Cabrera at short and Santana or Chiz at 3rd. Masterson is going to be frustrated a lot this year. The infield defense burned him yesterday with Aviles throwing away a double play ball and AC waving at six-hop ground balls.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:47 am

Prosecutor wrote:Nice win over the White Sox 12-6 on a day when Masterson didn't have his best stuff. Great clutch hitting by Brantley, Raburn and Murphy. The bullpen went 4 1/3 innings allowing no runs and only one hit.

The bullpen lineup of Shaw in the 7th, Cody Allen in the 8th, and Axford in the 9th is looking really good so far. Allen in particular has been dominating.

Now we just need the starters to pitch six innings for a change. For some reason they are all struggling in the first inning. Masterson had a 3-0 lead but gave it all back in the bottom of the first.

Masterson wasn't as bad as his line looked, though. The blown double play by Aviles cost him a couple of runs and made him throw a lot more pitches. And the missed tag at the plate by Santana cost him another run. With average defense he probably would have gone six innings allowing two runs.

Asdrubal came up with the bases loaded and one out in the 7th and fouled out on the first pitch, chasing a pitch well out of the strike zone. Some old Asdrubal - hacks at the first pitch almost every time. Reminded me of him killing our rally in the Wild Card game last year by grounding into a DP on the first pitch.

He sure is locked in hitting right-handed, though. And Quintana is going for the Sox today.

It's only 12 games, but Santana might be the only player I've seen who's hitting under .200 with an OBP of over .400. Pitchers don't want anything to do with him.

Finally, Nyjer Morgan is better than Bourn. He has a tiny strike zone, and he can handle the bat.


It's not that pitchers are pitching around him, he's just been able to work counts quite often. His swing is all kinds of long and loopy right now.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:02 pm

Kluber pitched well enough to get a W today.. In the early going.. with the chopped up schedule.. double headers.. cold temps.. wind... etc.. this team has yet to come together and reveal what they will become.

When you score 1 run, don't expect to get the W..

Congrats to Lonnie on the birth of his second child.. and welcome back..

Jose Abreu.. is better than advertised.. the CWSox got a good one with him.. wow can that guy hit..

When Michael Bourn returns.. Nyger Morgan will be the fourth outfielder again.. Bourn is a player.. Morgan has skills.. not Bourn skills..
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:02 am

GeronimoSon wrote:
Jose Abreu.. is better than advertised.. the CWSox got a good one with him.. wow can that guy hit..

When Michael Bourn returns.. Nyger Morgan will be the fourth outfielder again.. Bourn is a player.. Morgan has skills.. not Bourn skills..


Abreu hit the two HR's in the first game but then went 1-for-11 with 6 K's in the last three. He's hitting .234 on the season. I think the jury is still out on what kind of hitter he is. The Indians pitchers figured him out quickly enough. Outman said they noticed he hits balls coming in on him much better than he hits balls going away. So Outman, who gave up a HR to him in the first game, pitched him away the next time and struck him out.

Let's see how Abreu does his second time around the league when the pitchers have a book on him.

Bourn had a disappointing season last year and is 3-for-20 in his rehab stint. His leg may be OK but he doesn't look ready. He struck out twice yesterday against AA pitching. Meanwhile, Morgan is locked in. He's so short that pitchers are having trouble throwing strikes to him. I don't know what other options they have, but replacing Morgan with Bourn doesn't look like a good move right now.

By they way, when Bourn returns Morgan will be the 5th outfielder, not the 4th. Will the Tribe release Morgan in order to keep Giambi?
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:13 am

Prosecutor wrote:Abreu hit the two HR's in the first game but then went 1-for-11 with 6 K's in the last three. He's hitting .234 on the season. I think the jury is still out on what kind of hitter he is. The Indians pitchers figured him out quickly enough. Outman said they noticed he hits balls coming in on him much better than he hits balls going away. So Outman, who gave up a HR to him in the first game, pitched him away the next time and struck him out.

Let's see how Abreu does his second time around the league when the pitchers have a book on him.

Bourn had a disappointing season last year and is 3-for-20 in his rehab stint. His leg may be OK but he doesn't look ready. He struck out twice yesterday against AA pitching. Meanwhile, Morgan is locked in. He's so short that pitchers are having trouble throwing strikes to him. I don't know what other options they have, but replacing Morgan with Bourn doesn't look like a good move right now.

By they way, when Bourn returns Morgan will be the 5th outfielder, not the 4th. Will the Tribe release Morgan in order to keep Giambi?


Agree on Abreu. Jury is definitely still out on him...for what the Sox paid I'm not that impressed.

I can't imagine Morgan is released for Giambi but never say never. I don't see how you could cut Morgan and keep Johnson around though. Johnson has never been good at the big league level and has been terrible in the early going. Sure he's very versatile but you have Raburn and Aviles around...Johnson is at best the 3rd option at any position. Give me Morgan who can at least contribute on offense over Johnson.

Other option could be sending Chiz to AAA when Giambi is healthy. Not a fan of that with how Chiz has hit but also think Chiz needs to be playing a lot more.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:39 pm

Tough loss....

A game of missed opportunities.. five times by Michael Bourn.. He had a pitifully pathetic game.. couldn't even get a bunt down..

Manana is another day...
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:31 pm

Bourn was not ready. He should have spent more time on rehab.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:14 am

Bearcatbob wrote:Bourn was not ready. He should have spent more time on rehab.


Maybe going 3-for-20 at Akron was a clue.

OTOH, Santana went 1-for-30. Maybe it's not that Bourn isn't ready, he's just in a slump.

What concerns me is that he wasn't what he was advertised to be last year. Maybe he's slipped at age 30. The Indians are locked into him for another 3 years at a high salary. I'm afraid they bought damaged goods and his contract will be an albatross.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Edible14 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:01 am

There were quite a few articles written about how when Morgan was sent down, it was the front office making a tough call that needed to be made. Morgan's early success was unsustainable, which was easily discerned from statistical analysis. His defense wasn't good, and being a lefty meant that he didn't offer a platoon or pinch hitting option off of the bench. And I agreed with most of that. I think, though, if you apply the same logic, Chisenhall shouldn't be long for the club.

He's swinging a hot bat right now, but really it's the exact same Lonnie Chisenhall we've always known, just getting lucky.

His BABIP after today is .556, it was over .600 before the day. That's clearly not going to be sustained.

His walk rate is basically in line with what he's been doing his whole career. At 5.1%, he's pretty much the same guy who had rates of 5.2 and 5.3% the last two years. And his k-rate is actually *climbing*. The percentage of pitches he's swinging at out of the zone is the highest in his career, and the percentage of pitches swung at in the zone is the lowest in his career. His plate discipline hasn't improved at all.

He's not even hitting for more power. His ISO is .167, almost perfectly between his numbers from the last two years.

The only positive trend in the peripherals for him is the line drive percentage - an unbelievable 33.3% of his hits have been liners. I don't think you expect that to continue, but if he could sustain a higher rate, it would likely lead to him being able to maintain a higher BABIP than in years past. Whereas last year his BABIP was .243, and the years before that it was mostly at .300, perhaps if he can sustain a slightly higher than average BABIP by hitting lots of line drives, he can increase his batting average. That would make him roughly a .250-.270 hitter, with an OBP of around .300-.320. You'd be talking about an OPS in the mid 700s, which is an above average hitter. It's roughly what he was in 2012 as a hitter. But that's not a good enough hitter to keep him here, I think.

He's a platoon 3B, who doesn't really have other positions. He's not handy on the basepaths. He's basically only going to DH and pinch hit against righties, and he'll be splitting those duties with Giambi. He's also a lefty on a team that already features 4 lefty and 3 switch-hitting regulars, so the guys he could pinch hit for are basically just Gomes and Raburn. There's very limited use for both him and Giambi on the roster right now. And once the sample size catches up and he becomes basically the same old Lonnie Chisenhall, I think he's going to be sent out for an 8th reliever.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:50 am

Edible14 wrote:There were quite a few articles written about how when Morgan was sent down, it was the front office making a tough call that needed to be made. Morgan's early success was unsustainable, which was easily discerned from statistical analysis. His defense wasn't good, and being a lefty meant that he didn't offer a platoon or pinch hitting option off of the bench. And I agreed with most of that. I think, though, if you apply the same logic, Chisenhall shouldn't be long for the club.

He's swinging a hot bat right now, but really it's the exact same Lonnie Chisenhall we've always known, just getting lucky.

His BABIP after today is .556, it was over .600 before the day. That's clearly not going to be sustained.

His walk rate is basically in line with what he's been doing his whole career. At 5.1%, he's pretty much the same guy who had rates of 5.2 and 5.3% the last two years. And his k-rate is actually *climbing*. The percentage of pitches he's swinging at out of the zone is the highest in his career, and the percentage of pitches swung at in the zone is the lowest in his career. His plate discipline hasn't improved at all.

He's not even hitting for more power. His ISO is .167, almost perfectly between his numbers from the last two years.

The only positive trend in the peripherals for him is the line drive percentage - an unbelievable 33.3% of his hits have been liners. I don't think you expect that to continue, but if he could sustain a higher rate, it would likely lead to him being able to maintain a higher BABIP than in years past. Whereas last year his BABIP was .243, and the years before that it was mostly at .300, perhaps if he can sustain a slightly higher than average BABIP by hitting lots of line drives, he can increase his batting average. That would make him roughly a .250-.270 hitter, with an OBP of around .300-.320. You'd be talking about an OPS in the mid 700s, which is an above average hitter. It's roughly what he was in 2012 as a hitter. But that's not a good enough hitter to keep him here, I think.

He's a platoon 3B, who doesn't really have other positions. He's not handy on the basepaths. He's basically only going to DH and pinch hit against righties, and he'll be splitting those duties with Giambi. He's also a lefty on a team that already features 4 lefty and 3 switch-hitting regulars, so the guys he could pinch hit for are basically just Gomes and Raburn. There's very limited use for both him and Giambi on the roster right now. And once the sample size catches up and he becomes basically the same old Lonnie Chisenhall, I think he's going to be sent out for an 8th reliever.


Assumes regression to the mean <===== Why should this be the accepted path?..

Sustaining impossibility is, by definition, impossible..
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Chiefroy » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:23 am

Another "lucky" hit by the Chiz Kid today. Gotta keep playing the hot guy...maybe even let him hit vs lefty relievers until he cools off.

Swish has raised hit BA 50 pts. over the past 6 games, but he didn't have much way to go except up. Hopefully Santana has hit rock bottom. He's down to .130 for the season. 18 Ks for this duo the past 6 games.

On another note, Aaron Harang continues to make us look foolish for letting him go. :redface
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:51 am

So far...

Ubaldo 0-3, 6.75 ERA, 13 walks in 21 innings

Kazmir 2-0, 1.65 ERA, 0.77 WHIP

Harang 3-1, 0.85 ERA, 15 hits in 32 innings.

Those last two would look great in the Tribe's rotation right now.

So Chiz is chasing too many bad pitches but hitting a ton of line drives.

Looks to me like he's fouling off the bad pitches, as opposed to missing them and striking out, but he's hitting line drives when he gets a good pitch to hit.

Not a bad formula.

His power is down and he's hitting mostly singles. He's also going up the middle and to the opposite field as opposed to trying to pull everything like he did in the past. He's turning into a Michael Brantley - a line drive hitter who sprays it to all fields. Maybe seeing the contract Brantley got plus Santana being moved to third base got his attention and made him realize he needs to change his game before it's too late.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:55 am

Tribe finally beats a lefty after starting out 1-6 against them. Now they get another one in Bruce Chen, who is 7-1 against the Indians since 2010 and had a 1.04 ERA against them last year, when they had the best record in baseball against lefties.

This could be a long, frustrating afternoon of hacking at Chen's changeups and sliders. He's off to a great start this season.

We need Raburn to get going.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:22 am

Edible14 wrote:There were quite a few articles written about how when Morgan was sent down, it was the front office making a tough call that needed to be made. Morgan's early success was unsustainable, which was easily discerned from statistical analysis. His defense wasn't good, and being a lefty meant that he didn't offer a platoon or pinch hitting option off of the bench. And I agreed with most of that. I think, though, if you apply the same logic, Chisenhall shouldn't be long for the club.

He's swinging a hot bat right now, but really it's the exact same Lonnie Chisenhall we've always known, just getting lucky.

His BABIP after today is .556, it was over .600 before the day. That's clearly not going to be sustained.

His walk rate is basically in line with what he's been doing his whole career. At 5.1%, he's pretty much the same guy who had rates of 5.2 and 5.3% the last two years. And his k-rate is actually *climbing*. The percentage of pitches he's swinging at out of the zone is the highest in his career, and the percentage of pitches swung at in the zone is the lowest in his career. His plate discipline hasn't improved at all.

He's not even hitting for more power. His ISO is .167, almost perfectly between his numbers from the last two years.

The only positive trend in the peripherals for him is the line drive percentage - an unbelievable 33.3% of his hits have been liners. I don't think you expect that to continue, but if he could sustain a higher rate, it would likely lead to him being able to maintain a higher BABIP than in years past. Whereas last year his BABIP was .243, and the years before that it was mostly at .300, perhaps if he can sustain a slightly higher than average BABIP by hitting lots of line drives, he can increase his batting average. That would make him roughly a .250-.270 hitter, with an OBP of around .300-.320. You'd be talking about an OPS in the mid 700s, which is an above average hitter. It's roughly what he was in 2012 as a hitter. But that's not a good enough hitter to keep him here, I think.

He's a platoon 3B, who doesn't really have other positions. He's not handy on the basepaths. He's basically only going to DH and pinch hit against righties, and he'll be splitting those duties with Giambi. He's also a lefty on a team that already features 4 lefty and 3 switch-hitting regulars, so the guys he could pinch hit for are basically just Gomes and Raburn. There's very limited use for both him and Giambi on the roster right now. And once the sample size catches up and he becomes basically the same old Lonnie Chisenhall, I think he's going to be sent out for an 8th reliever.



Very good points on Chisenhall.

Here's one aspect I disagree with some though though.

In 2012 Chisenhall had a .741 OPS, .322 wOBA, and 106 wRC+.

In 2012, Brantley had a .750 OPS, .322 wOBA, and 106 wRC+.
In 2013, Brantley had a .728 OPS, .320 wOBA, and 104 wRC+.


If Chiz can just get back to 2012 levels then IMO that is good enough to keep him around. It's not All-Star levels but could do a lot worse.

Also disagree that he's not handy on the bases. He's no burner but he's shown this year that he is actually not a bad baserunner. Way more athletic and quicker than most give him credit for.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:29 am

Prosecutor wrote:So Chiz is chasing too many bad pitches but hitting a ton of line drives.

Looks to me like he's fouling off the bad pitches, as opposed to missing them and striking out, but he's hitting line drives when he gets a good pitch to hit.

Not a bad formula.

His power is down and he's hitting mostly singles. He's also going up the middle and to the opposite field as opposed to trying to pull everything like he did in the past. He's turning into a Michael Brantley - a line drive hitter who sprays it to all fields. Maybe seeing the contract Brantley got plus Santana being moved to third base got his attention and made him realize he needs to change his game before it's too late.


I think Chiz has been unfairly branded a power hitter because of the position he switched too. While he has shown some power in his career, when he was first drafted the big plus on him was how sweet his swing was. Was touted as a good hitter that would hit his HRs due to quick hands. Brantley isn't the guy that coems to mind for me though not a bad comp. Personally think more Choo (minus the OBP skills). A guy that has a good linedrive swing that can hit 20-25 HRs. Strikes out a bit too much but always thought he could be a Carlos Baerga type eventually too. 18-20 HR guy with lackluster walk rates but good enough hitter to get on base a decent amount. Nice #3-type hitter. Probably too optimistic at this point though.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Edible14 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:02 am

Hermie13 wrote:
Edible14 wrote:The only positive trend in the peripherals for him is the line drive percentage - an unbelievable 33.3% of his hits have been liners. I don't think you expect that to continue, but if he could sustain a higher rate, it would likely lead to him being able to maintain a higher BABIP than in years past. Whereas last year his BABIP was .243, and the years before that it was mostly at .300, perhaps if he can sustain a slightly higher than average BABIP by hitting lots of line drives, he can increase his batting average. That would make him roughly a .250-.270 hitter, with an OBP of around .300-.320. You'd be talking about an OPS in the mid 700s, which is an above average hitter. It's roughly what he was in 2012 as a hitter. But that's not a good enough hitter to keep him here, I think.

He's a platoon 3B, who doesn't really have other positions. He's not handy on the basepaths. He's basically only going to DH and pinch hit against righties, and he'll be splitting those duties with Giambi. He's also a lefty on a team that already features 4 lefty and 3 switch-hitting regulars, so the guys he could pinch hit for are basically just Gomes and Raburn. There's very limited use for both him and Giambi on the roster right now. And once the sample size catches up and he becomes basically the same old Lonnie Chisenhall, I think he's going to be sent out for an 8th reliever.


Very good points on Chisenhall.

Here's one aspect I disagree with some though though.

In 2012 Chisenhall had a .741 OPS, .322 wOBA, and 106 wRC+.

In 2012, Brantley had a .750 OPS, .322 wOBA, and 106 wRC+.
In 2013, Brantley had a .728 OPS, .320 wOBA, and 104 wRC+.


If Chiz can just get back to 2012 levels then IMO that is good enough to keep him around. It's not All-Star levels but could do a lot worse.

Also disagree that he's not handy on the bases. He's no burner but he's shown this year that he is actually not a bad baserunner. Way more athletic and quicker than most give him credit for.


I just meant that he's not going to be a guy you put in as a pinch-runner for, say, Carlos Santana or Nick Swisher. Aviles and Johnson are much better for that role.

Ultimately, I think that Francona will eventually want his 8th man for the bullpen. When that happens, if you get rid of Elliot Johnson you have two out of three bench guys essentially playing one position between them and occupying the same role - lefty pinch hitter. And if they actually do as Tony has been suggesting and bring up Aguilar... one of those guys has to go. And, given all they've said and done about Giambi, I can't see it being him. Although, if I'm being honest, I think it *should* be. Chisenhall is the better hitter, can actually defend a position and isn't a liability on the basepaths. But they'll keep Giambi because of the intangibles.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:52 am

Edible14 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Edible14 wrote:The only positive trend in the peripherals for him is the line drive percentage - an unbelievable 33.3% of his hits have been liners. I don't think you expect that to continue, but if he could sustain a higher rate, it would likely lead to him being able to maintain a higher BABIP than in years past. Whereas last year his BABIP was .243, and the years before that it was mostly at .300, perhaps if he can sustain a slightly higher than average BABIP by hitting lots of line drives, he can increase his batting average. That would make him roughly a .250-.270 hitter, with an OBP of around .300-.320. You'd be talking about an OPS in the mid 700s, which is an above average hitter. It's roughly what he was in 2012 as a hitter. But that's not a good enough hitter to keep him here, I think.

He's a platoon 3B, who doesn't really have other positions. He's not handy on the basepaths. He's basically only going to DH and pinch hit against righties, and he'll be splitting those duties with Giambi. He's also a lefty on a team that already features 4 lefty and 3 switch-hitting regulars, so the guys he could pinch hit for are basically just Gomes and Raburn. There's very limited use for both him and Giambi on the roster right now. And once the sample size catches up and he becomes basically the same old Lonnie Chisenhall, I think he's going to be sent out for an 8th reliever.


Very good points on Chisenhall.

Here's one aspect I disagree with some though though.

In 2012 Chisenhall had a .741 OPS, .322 wOBA, and 106 wRC+.

In 2012, Brantley had a .750 OPS, .322 wOBA, and 106 wRC+.
In 2013, Brantley had a .728 OPS, .320 wOBA, and 104 wRC+.


If Chiz can just get back to 2012 levels then IMO that is good enough to keep him around. It's not All-Star levels but could do a lot worse.

Also disagree that he's not handy on the bases. He's no burner but he's shown this year that he is actually not a bad baserunner. Way more athletic and quicker than most give him credit for.


I just meant that he's not going to be a guy you put in as a pinch-runner for, say, Carlos Santana or Nick Swisher. Aviles and Johnson are much better for that role.

Ultimately, I think that Francona will eventually want his 8th man for the bullpen. When that happens, if you get rid of Elliot Johnson you have two out of three bench guys essentially playing one position between them and occupying the same role - lefty pinch hitter. And if they actually do as Tony has been suggesting and bring up Aguilar... one of those guys has to go. And, given all they've said and done about Giambi, I can't see it being him. Although, if I'm being honest, I think it *should* be. Chisenhall is the better hitter, can actually defend a position and isn't a liability on the basepaths. But they'll keep Giambi because of the intangibles.


Fair enough, agree you wouldn't use Chiz as a pinch runner, just think he gets a lot of flack for being slow when he really isn't.


If you drop Johnson for an 8th bullpen arm (ugh), you would have a 3 man bench but would have 2 RH bats and 1LH bat a lot of the time. Raburn and Aviles would both be on the bench with Giambi. I think Chiz is starting to prove he deserve playing time and will keep getting it (keep playing the hot hand). I am still holding out hope we drop Johnson for another catcher as I think Santana just absolutely needs to stop catching. Needs to focus on hitting and one position, not two.


I think I'm missing something on your Aguilar part. IMO you'd bring him up for Johnson and just stick with the 7-man pen. Francona actually went with a 7-man pen for a lot of last year. He went with the 8-man pen when there were multiple injuries to the pitching staff and in late August (when arms start getting tired). Don't think we see Aguilar yet though I wouldn't be opposed to it (especially if it means Johnson is gone).
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby Edible14 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:53 am

Hermie13 wrote:Fair enough, agree you wouldn't use Chiz as a pinch runner, just think he gets a lot of flack for being slow when he really isn't.


If you drop Johnson for an 8th bullpen arm (ugh), you would have a 3 man bench but would have 2 RH bats and 1LH bat a lot of the time. Raburn and Aviles would both be on the bench with Giambi. I think Chiz is starting to prove he deserve playing time and will keep getting it (keep playing the hot hand). I am still holding out hope we drop Johnson for another catcher as I think Santana just absolutely needs to stop catching. Needs to focus on hitting and one position, not two.


I think I'm missing something on your Aguilar part. IMO you'd bring him up for Johnson and just stick with the 7-man pen. Francona actually went with a 7-man pen for a lot of last year. He went with the 8-man pen when there were multiple injuries to the pitching staff and in late August (when arms start getting tired). Don't think we see Aguilar yet though I wouldn't be opposed to it (especially if it means Johnson is gone).


If you send out Johnson for Aguilar, you end up only being able to cover 2 positions with 3 of your bench guys. If you have a guy day-to-day like Kipnis or Bourn, you basically are immediately reduced to no help off the bench for half of your positions on the field. I don't think Johnson is going to be touched unless they bring up someone who can play at least the corner outfield positions. Unless they think Swisher can take some reps in RF. Actually, being able to move Swisher to RF would potentially solve a lot of issues, but I thought I remember reading something about them not planning to do that anymore.
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:10 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:Abreu hit the two HR's in the first game but then went 1-for-11 with 6 K's in the last three. He's hitting .234 on the season. I think the jury is still out on what kind of hitter he is. The Indians pitchers figured him out quickly enough. Outman said they noticed he hits balls coming in on him much better than he hits balls going away. So Outman, who gave up a HR to him in the first game, pitched him away the next time and struck him out.

Let's see how Abreu does his second time around the league when the pitchers have a book on him.

Bourn had a disappointing season last year and is 3-for-20 in his rehab stint. His leg may be OK but he doesn't look ready. He struck out twice yesterday against AA pitching. Meanwhile, Morgan is locked in. He's so short that pitchers are having trouble throwing strikes to him. I don't know what other options they have, but replacing Morgan with Bourn doesn't look like a good move right now.

By they way, when Bourn returns Morgan will be the 5th outfielder, not the 4th. Will the Tribe release Morgan in order to keep Giambi?


Agree on Abreu. Jury is definitely still out on him...for what the Sox paid I'm not that impressed.

I can't imagine Morgan is released for Giambi but never say never. I don't see how you could cut Morgan and keep Johnson around though. Johnson has never been good at the big league level and has been terrible in the early going. Sure he's very versatile but you have Raburn and Aviles around...Johnson is at best the 3rd option at any position. Give me Morgan who can at least contribute on offense over Johnson.

Other option could be sending Chiz to AAA when Giambi is healthy. Not a fan of that with how Chiz has hit but also think Chiz needs to be playing a lot more.


Has the jury rendered the verdict yet?.. Still not impressed?.. Maybe he can't field his position too?.. :rolleyes
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Re: Official 2014 Cleveland Indians Season Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:19 pm

If Aguilar replaces Elliot Johnson.. then Swisher becomes the swing w/ Aguilar playing first base MOST of the time.. If he's raking.. let him..

In addition to the LH bat that Big-G brings, that leaves the switch hitting Swisher (1B/OF/DH), switch hitting Santana (1B/3B/C/DH), Aviles (2B/SS/OF/DH) and Raburn (OF/2B/P) as the "bench" with at least one playing every day. OF is covered in two spots with Dr Smooth moving over if Bourn needs an off day, IF is covered, catching is covered.. This would work out just fine.... Shock promotion..perhaps as early as the start of the Anaheim series.. Won't give Jesus time to think...
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