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Best Additions This Year

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Best Additions This Year

Postby Bearcatbob » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:26 pm

IMO it is between Bourn and Aviles. So far Swisher seems to be lost in a world of fatherhood and who knows what.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby A.Zajac » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:26 pm

Gotta start with Terry Francona... none of this is possible without Francona. Beyond that, I'd say Bourn is my top choice. Aviles and Gomes aren't too far behind, followed by Shaw and Reynolds.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:41 pm

Outside of Francona it is Michael Bourn. Bourn has been more valuable an addition on the field than Swisher, IMHO. That's not taking away from Swisher bc I think he's a tremendous add too, but I think Bourn adds a whole new dynamic to the team that has been missing since Kenny Lofton's best days.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:34 am

As far as players to me it's Mike Aviles. Who would be manning SS right now without him? Diaz? McDonald? Phelps? Have we really lost anything at the position since Cabrera went down? Could almost say we've upgraded.

My 1A is Ryan Raburn....highest OPS on the team at .908 (heading into today's game at least). Fourth in HRs despite being a bench guy.

Bourn...been good but we downgraded big time in the leadoff spot from Choo to Bourn. Plus he was injured. Still been very solid, not trying to say he's been terrible but a .338 OBP is very 'meh'. Swisher has a better bWAR this year than Bourn and the best of any of the new additions. Then again Ryan Raburn has the best fWAR of any of the new additions (1.5). Heck, looking at fWAR...you got Santana and Kipnis 1 and 2....3 thru 8 are Raburn, Bourn, Gomes, Swisher, Aviles, and Stubbs....
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:45 am

Hermie13 wrote:As far as players to me it's Mike Aviles. Who would be manning SS right now without him? Diaz? McDonald? Phelps? Have we really lost anything at the position since Cabrera went down? Could almost say we've upgraded.

My 1A is Ryan Raburn....highest OPS on the team at .908 (heading into today's game at least). Fourth in HRs despite being a bench guy.

Bourn...been good but we downgraded big time in the leadoff spot from Choo to Bourn. Plus he was injured. Still been very solid, not trying to say he's been terrible but a .338 OBP is very 'meh'. Swisher has a better bWAR this year than Bourn and the best of any of the new additions. Then again Ryan Raburn has the best fWAR of any of the new additions (1.5). Heck, looking at fWAR...you got Santana and Kipnis 1 and 2....3 thru 8 are Raburn, Bourn, Gomes, Swisher, Aviles, and Stubbs....


While this isn't the subject of this thread, doesn't this say that Chris Antonetti's Efforts & Acquisitions over the winter was superb.. Call these acquisitions: Tito Francona and the 7 Foys (Raburn, Bourn, Gomes, Swisher, Aviles, Stubbs and Giambi)..

Agree with Hermie here on Aviles... Theeee best move for this year..without him, the Indians would be looking at a HUGE hole in their defense and offense.. Perhaps there will be more in a few weeks.. or as the "also rans" start putting players up for auction.. (I'll start a trading deadline thread in the next few days..)

Disagree with two things.. Aviles as an up grade = no.. Droobs is a better defender, and a team leader better offensive SS, etc. He's just a better player overall. Aviles best role is as a veteran utility. Filling in for Droobs at SS is part of his M.O. and.. Choo for Bourn.. isn't a big time downgrade. Bourn's defense is vastly superior..Offensively, both are igniters, they just accomplish the results in a different manner. The injury issue is misplaced as part of an evaluation..
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:49 am

Good points on Mike Aviles he's been a very valuable add too. A lot of shrewd moves my CA and company this past offseason. I noticed no one including myself mentioned how valuable Trevor Bauer COULD BE to this club. His true value is still unknown but he certainly provides the Tribe a valuable commodity. Even Bryan Shaw has been a valuable add to the bullpen breaking bats with his cutter has been fun to watch, oh and I like the long sox too.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Bearcatbob » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:25 am

Excellent stuff guys. I agree - Francona has been huge - but he is not a player.

When Droobs comes back - perhaps Aviles goes to third and McDonald becomes the super sub. IMO this is especially likely if Chis does not find his bat.

If Bauer enters the rotation - he can become huge.

All and all - if the pen gets healthy we could have a very interesting second half.

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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby GhostofTedCox » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:06 am

Francona has had a huge impact, but as far as players go,,,,

Born is a very solid ML player that should shine for years here in Cleveland.
(He has impacted a number of games already this season. I don't recall many games that Choo had an impact.)

Reynolds has been better than advertised. But I'm afraid he will only be here this season.

By the end of the year, I might say Kluber.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:23 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:As far as players to me it's Mike Aviles. Who would be manning SS right now without him? Diaz? McDonald? Phelps? Have we really lost anything at the position since Cabrera went down? Could almost say we've upgraded.

My 1A is Ryan Raburn....highest OPS on the team at .908 (heading into today's game at least). Fourth in HRs despite being a bench guy.

Bourn...been good but we downgraded big time in the leadoff spot from Choo to Bourn. Plus he was injured. Still been very solid, not trying to say he's been terrible but a .338 OBP is very 'meh'. Swisher has a better bWAR this year than Bourn and the best of any of the new additions. Then again Ryan Raburn has the best fWAR of any of the new additions (1.5). Heck, looking at fWAR...you got Santana and Kipnis 1 and 2....3 thru 8 are Raburn, Bourn, Gomes, Swisher, Aviles, and Stubbs....


While this isn't the subject of this thread, doesn't this say that Chris Antonetti's Efforts & Acquisitions over the winter was superb.. Call these acquisitions: Tito Francona and the 7 Foys (Raburn, Bourn, Gomes, Swisher, Aviles, Stubbs and Giambi)..

Agree with Hermie here on Aviles... Theeee best move for this year..without him, the Indians would be looking at a HUGE hole in their defense and offense.. Perhaps there will be more in a few weeks.. or as the "also rans" start putting players up for auction.. (I'll start a trading deadline thread in the next few days..)

Disagree with two things.. Aviles as an up grade = no.. Droobs is a better defender, and a team leader better offensive SS, etc. He's just a better player overall. Aviles best role is as a veteran utility. Filling in for Droobs at SS is part of his M.O. and.. Choo for Bourn.. isn't a big time downgrade. Bourn's defense is vastly superior..Offensively, both are igniters, they just accomplish the results in a different manner. The injury issue is misplaced as part of an evaluation..


Not sure who would agree with you on Aviles vs Cabrera defensively, but I do admire you ability to stick to that notion, despite all the stats that disagree (and the simple eye test). Disagree on the team leader thing. Aviles seems way more of one from what I've seen in a short time. He also seems WAY more intelligent a ballplayer. Cabrera makes way too many mental mistakes. Aviles seems to always be at the right base (like at 3B to end game yesterday) and was the first guy to point/yell at Pestano to take Lough Tuesday night. Also seems like a much better base runner. Offensively though...yes, overall Cabrera is better, but to this point this year, can't see how we've downgraded with Aviles. Cabrera has really struggled this year. That said, if I had a gun to my head and had to choose Cabrera or Aviles, I chose Cabrera.

Choo vs Bourn was simply a comment on the leadoff spot. Choo had the 2nd best OBP in all of baseball out of the leadoff spot last year behind only some kid named Mike Trout (heard he could be pretty good). Bourn is an average at best leadoff guy. Yeah his defense in CF is better than Choo's defense in RF for sure. Agree Bourn can be an igniter at the top but he's been pretty blah since returning from the DL. OPS is near .650. Does have 10 steals but also been caught 4 times. Obviously Choo had only 1 year left and was gonna walk and Bourn is here for 4 years so not saying I think it was bad to trade Choo and get Bourn as a leadoff guy at all. Think Bourn is a average at best leadoff guy but do think he fits well in this lineup as it allows guys like Brantley, Kipnis, and Stubbs (other leadoff options) to hit lower in order.

I don't know, maybe I'm too hard on Bourn but just haven't been that impressed with him to this point. Can see why his value slipped in free agency.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:22 pm

Interesting note/story at BBall Rumors.. http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ym ... b&sid=milb

The story makes a pretty nice claim that Danny Salazar may find some time at the corner of carnegie and ontario...
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Bearcatbob » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:14 pm

"Think Bourn is a average at best leadoff guy but do think he fits well in this lineup as it allows guys like Brantley, Kipnis, and Stubbs (other leadoff options) to hit lower in order."

Average at best? Bourn is a spark plug in our lineup. The non producer has been Swisher. Hopefully he gets healthy, becomes accustomed to being a father, forgets NY - and simply becomes a producer.

LOL - Bourn has done far more than Swisher for this years team.

An interesting evaluation would be how many times Stubbs has changed a game with his legs in late innings. I hate his strike outs - but as ninth batter IMO he has contributed well.

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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:22 am

Choo had an unbelievable start to his year in Cincinnati. How many other players have fifty walks and fifty runs scored? What that says.. he has a LOT of support..and is one of the primary reasons the Reds have gotten off to a blazing start. His OBP is off the charts/waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above his career average. Statistics says that will regress (.477 in April, .411 in May, & .369 in June).. Being HBP about a dozen times painfully adds to that total..

No one disputes the defensive superiority of Bourn over Choo. IF Reds' manager Dusty Baker had any say w/r to personnel, he should be SCREAMING at Walt Jocketty to get a real CF'er...like Michael Bourn.. Bourn's defense and base path disruption as evidenced by Jason Kipnis' & Asdrubal Cabrera's (before injury) hot streaks were at least partially as a result of Bourn's presence at the top of the order.

For these reasons, Bourn is not a huge step down from Choo.. Perhaps not at all if the intangibles of baseball can be quantified..

The team leader thing w/r to Aviles & Droobs.. is too subjective to grouse about.. it's best an "...agree to disagree..." type argument...

thoughts?
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Bearcatbob » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:26 am

I trust everyone is pleased with our position as we go to the All Star break. I think it is interesting to see how we have arrived at this position in terms of being told how the roster was upgraded in off season. Here are my thoughts - I would appreciate inputs from our stat experts.

Addition: Bret Myers - Zero contribuiton

Addition: Stubbs - solid in terms of what could have been expected - but not a huge upgrade.

Addition: Mark Reynolds - carried the team in April. His April is a large part of where we are - but certainly a zero lately.

Addition: Nick Swisher - way below expectations. A minor contributor.

Addition: Bourn - IMO a huge upgrade and a huge contributor. Bourn moved Dr. Smooth to left where he has shone and replaced a near black hole in the order.

Addition: Mike Aviles - IMO a huge upgrade and a big help in getting us where we are.

Addition: Hill - nothing special yet - but looking better.

Addition: Gomes - big upgrade over Marson. Has contributed to several wins.

Additions: Albers and Shaw - helpful but not impactful.

I think the biggest surprise has been the starting pitching. I think it has kept us in most games. The next biggest surprise/contribution is from improved play of existing players - eg Brantley, Kipnis and Santana.

I think it is reasonable to expect Swisher and Droobs to get better and the pen to get straightened out. I think our best baseball is ahead.

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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby ChadS17 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:59 pm

Personally I think surprise isn't a strong enough word to express the year Kluber is having. He is, in my opinion, the biggest surprise of the year by far.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:42 pm

ChadS17 wrote:Personally I think surprise isn't a strong enough word to express the year Kluber is having. He is, in my opinion, the biggest surprise of the year by far.


I second this. Not sure you count him as a new addition (though new addition to the rotation in a way), but been HUGE for us.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:59 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:I trust everyone is pleased with our position as we go to the All Star break. I think it is interesting to see how we have arrived at this position in terms of being told how the roster was upgraded in off season. Here are my thoughts - I would appreciate inputs from our stat experts.

Addition: Bret Myers - Zero contribuiton

Addition: Stubbs - solid in terms of what could have been expected - but not a huge upgrade.

Addition: Mark Reynolds - carried the team in April. His April is a large part of where we are - but certainly a zero lately.

Addition: Nick Swisher - way below expectations. A minor contributor.

Addition: Bourn - IMO a huge upgrade and a huge contributor. Bourn moved Dr. Smooth to left where he has shone and replaced a near black hole in the order.


Addition: Mike Aviles - IMO a huge upgrade and a big help in getting us where we are.

Addition: Hill - nothing special yet - but looking better.

Addition: Gomes - big upgrade over Marson. Has contributed to several wins.

Additions: Albers and Shaw - helpful but not impactful.

I think the biggest surprise has been the starting pitching. I think it has kept us in most games. The next biggest surprise/contribution is from improved play of existing players - eg Brantley, Kipnis and Santana.

I think it is reasonable to expect Swisher and Droobs to get better and the pen to get straightened out. I think our best baseball is ahead.

Bob


Bourn didn't really move Brantley to LF; Drew Stubbs moved Brantley to LF when we traded for him. Bourn moved Stubbs to RF (and Swisher to 1B, Reynolds to DH). What black hole in the lineup? Are you referring to Brantley or Bourn with that comment? Bourn has hit leadoff...where he's been a downgrade from Choo who was one of the best leadoff hitters in baseball last year. I'm not saying Bourn has been terrible but man, Swisher can't get any love. He's been better than Bourn yet he's "a minor contributor" and Bourn is a "huge contributor"?!?!?!

Lot has been made of Reynolds and Santana's struggles since the end of April...Bourn has struggled a lot since returning from the DL in May. OBP is only .323, OPS is only .643. He has only 14 walks in 54 starts to 61 Ks. 12 SBs but caught 6 times in that span (terrible rate).

Swisher has a higher oWAR, OPS, OBP, OPS+, wRC+, wOBA....Bourn does have a slightly higher fWAR thanks to his baserunning (his defense actually rates out slightly worse than Swisher's). Not saying Swisher has been someone to brag about this year, definitely not where you want him to be, but he's playing multiple positions, batting in different spots in the lineup...yet still putting up better numbers than Bourn (who has played one position and batted in one spot)....

Kind of scary to think about with Bourn too...his BABIP this year is at .382. That's highest on the team (by a good amount) and 36 points higher than his career average. He has been "lucky" to this point yet putting up numbers only in line with his career average, not better (OBP is nearly identical, OPS, wOBA, etc).


I agree with most of your other comments though. Also agree that I think we can expect to see improvements from guys like Swisher, Cabrera, and some of the pen guys. Kinda amazing how good our record is with how a lot of guys have performed...
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Prosecutor » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:11 am

Bourn and Swisher have both been below their career norms in the first half.

Bourn's primary offensive numbers are right on his career averages, except that he's only walked 16 times in 279 at-bats. For a leadoff hitter he needs to walk more. Also, his stolen bases are down significantly. He's on pace to steal 22 bases after swiping 42 and 61 the last two years, so we're talking over a 50% reduction. I also expected better defense from a guy who is supposed to be the best centerfielder in the game. He's had a few balls bounce off his glove, including one that he managed to push over the fence. He booted a ball and then threw to the wrong base the other night, allowing what turned out to be the winning run to score.

His BABIP is so high because he's beaten out so many infield hits. I really think he should bunt more. The one thing he really excels at is getting down the first base line. I haven't seen anybody faster on this team since Lofton.

Swisher's numbers are down across the board. He's on pace for a .242/15/53 season, and he's hitting in the middle of the order! That's pathetic. His OPS is only .750 versus .823 for his career. It also turns out he can't play right field because it messes up his arm or something. That's not so bad because Rayburn has done a nice job as the 4th outfielder.

The reason for optimism is that he had a shoulder injury that surely affected his first half numbers. He's hitting .289 so far in July with a .426 OBP, so it looks like his shoulder is getting better and he's positioned for a solid second half. Getting some days off over the AS break will help, too. His slugging percentage for July is only .395 with 2 extra base hits in 38 at-bats, so I'm concerned about whether he can still drive the ball, but you have to love the OBP.

Chris Perez has been dynamite since coming off the DL and Vinnie is working his way back, so overall I think it looks good for the second half, especially considering the creampuff schedule.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:18 am

Voting Kluber as the best addition is kind of wrong.. He was here already. So, I'm changing my vote from Aviles to utility guy.. that is, Mike Aviles and Ryan Raburn, together have formed perhaps the best pair of utility guys the Indians have had since the days of Alvaro Espinoza and Johnny Mac. Jason Giambi hasn't been a bad add either, btw....

Moving on..Reasons for optimism..in the second half..

-Eight ( Myers doesn't count as he has been told he'll be in the pen) starting pitchers all competing.. The only knock on these guys is the length of their outings. Otherwise, they're a solid if not savvy group of hard throwing hounds.. Masterson, Ubaldo, Kazmir, Kluber, Z-Mac, Bauer, Carrasco, & Salazar. If the Indians feel they need an extra arm from this group to go to the pen.. the best candidate (read: it's not going to happen) would be Masterson followed by Salazar and then Kazmir.. This is quite the dilemma to have..

-Top of the order.. Bourn, Cabrera, Kipnis, Swisher, Brantley, & Santana provide an order that makes pitchers work. Then the Indians add the deuce and a quarters (Reynolds, Lonnie, & Stubbs) with a productive bench of Aviles and Raburn, not to mention Jason "Mr Production" Giambi and this is a solid offensive club. The team is still on pace to score over a hundred runs more in 2013 than they did in 2012. (775 v 667). This is like getting 2 feet of putts to use anywhere you want during a round of golf.. even Hermie might be able break 90 with this advantage!!..

Reasons for pessimism..

-Call it the near "40's".. four Indians relievers have made nearly or more than 40 appearances during the first half. While having four guys spreading this wealth, so to speak, could be considered a good thing and there being no set optimal value for too many appearances / innings by the relief corp, It is a clear indicator of an area of the team that could feel the stress. There is an old school thought that if the pen is used too much, it will fail. What defines too much is similar to the means by which Asdrubal Cabrera's defensive metrics are determined, that is, he's terrible but makes all the plays and flashes the leather for all to see... Through the 95 games played, the Tribe pen has been taxed at a rate or to the extent of ten outs per game. Just like the offensive metrics in baseball exists to define what creates runs, my approach defines pitching metrics as how to create outs. For the pen, ten of them, every game.. so far. That's a lot of outs.. If everything remains the same in the second half, the Indians pen will need to figure out how to create 670 outs.. FWIW.. it looks like the first casualty of the bullpen tax will be the eroding K-rates..

Thoughts?...
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:19 am

Prosecutor wrote:Swisher's numbers are down across the board. He's on pace for a .242/15/53 season, and he's hitting in the middle of the order! That's pathetic. His OPS is only .750 versus .823 for his career. It also turns out he can't play right field because it messes up his arm or something. That's not so bad because Rayburn has done a nice job as the 4th outfielder.

The reason for optimism is that he had a shoulder injury that surely affected his first half numbers. He's hitting .289 so far in July with a .426 OBP, so it looks like his shoulder is getting better and he's positioned for a solid second half. Getting some days off over the AS break will help, too. His slugging percentage for July is only .395 with 2 extra base hits in 38 at-bats, so I'm concerned about whether he can still drive the ball, but you have to love the OBP.

Chris Perez has been dynamite since coming off the DL and Vinnie is working his way back, so overall I think it looks good for the second half, especially considering the creampuff schedule.


Swisher has definitely looked better of late. Honestly Francona should consider using him in the 2-hole IMO. That's where he hit for the Yanks mostly last year and his bat fits there. Feel Francona has been greatly misusing him in the lineup. Great OBP guy throughout his career and while he has some pop, not a true power guy and not a cleanup hitter. Let him get on base in front of guys like Kipnis, Santana, Brantley, and Cabrera. Also think may be wise to drop Cabrera in the lineup. Really struggled in July (small sample though). Not a good fit in the 2-hole really either. Doesn't walk a lot and OBP is not that good. Drop him down though, take some pressure off and let him work his way out. And if you don't want to drop him far, the 3-spot may not be a bad fit. Hit him there between Swisher and Kipnis and he should see some good pitches as teams won't want to face Kip and could see guys on base a lot with Swisher (and even Bourn) on in front of him. Santana and Brantley 5 and 6, let Chiz, Reynolds, Stubbs, Raburn, Giambi, etc (whomever is in that day) fill in behind them.


The bullpen is gonna be a big key to the 2nd half. As mentioned, Perez has looked great since returning (building trade value maybe??). Pestano is the big key there though IMO. Need him to be the guy he has been, not the guy he was in the 1st half.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:25 am

GeronimoSon wrote:Voting Kluber as the best addition is kind of wrong.. He was here already. So, I'm changing my vote from Aviles to utility guy.. that is, Mike Aviles and Ryan Raburn, together have formed perhaps the best pair of utility guys the Indians have had since the days of Alvaro Espinoza and Johnny Mac. Jason Giambi hasn't been a bad add either, btw....

Moving on..Reasons for optimism..in the second half..

-Eight ( Myers doesn't count as he has been told he'll be in the pen) starting pitchers all competing.. The only knock on these guys is the length of their outings. Otherwise, they're a solid if not savvy group of hard throwing hounds.. Masterson, Ubaldo, Kazmir, Kluber, Z-Mac, Bauer, Carrasco, & Salazar. If the Indians feel they need an extra arm from this group to go to the pen.. the best candidate (read: it's not going to happen) would be Masterson followed by Salazar and then Kazmir.. This is quite the dilemma to have..

-Top of the order.. Bourn, Cabrera, Kipnis, Swisher, Brantley, & Santana provide an order that makes pitchers work. Then the Indians add the deuce and a quarters (Reynolds, Lonnie, & Stubbs) with a productive bench of Aviles and Raburn, not to mention Jason "Mr Production" Giambi and this is a solid offensive club. The team is still on pace to score over a hundred runs more in 2013 than they did in 2012. (775 v 667). This is like getting 2 feet of putts to use anywhere you want during a round of golf.. even Hermie might be able break 90 with this advantage!!..

Reasons for pessimism..

-Call it the near "40's".. four Indians relievers have made nearly or more than 40 appearances during the first half. While having four guys spreading this wealth, so to speak, could be considered a good thing and there being no set optimal value for too many appearances / innings by the relief corp, It is a clear indicator of an area of the team that could feel the stress. There is an old school thought that if the pen is used too much, it will fail. What defines too much is similar to the means by which Asdrubal Cabrera's defensive metrics are determined, that is, he's terrible but makes all the plays and flashes the leather for all to see... Through the 95 games played, the Tribe pen has been taxed at a rate or to the extent of ten outs per game. Just like the offensive metrics in baseball exists to define what creates runs, my approach defines pitching metrics as how to create outs. For the pen, ten of them, every game.. so far. That's a lot of outs.. If everything remains the same in the second half, the Indians pen will need to figure out how to create 670 outs.. FWIW.. it looks like the first casualty of the bullpen tax will be the eroding K-rates..

Thoughts?...


Hmm...moving your best starter, the guy with the most shutouts in all of baseball (3) and a guy that's still averaging over 6.5 innigns per start the last 2 months while "struggling" is the guy the Tribe should move to the pen??!! Really? :rolleyes


Also disagree on the Tribe batting order being the one to go with (as mentioned above). Putting Kipnis 3rd is a waste, same with Swisher 4th.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:40 am

Hermie13 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Voting Kluber as the best addition is kind of wrong.. He was here already. So, I'm changing my vote from Aviles to utility guy.. that is, Mike Aviles and Ryan Raburn, together have formed perhaps the best pair of utility guys the Indians have had since the days of Alvaro Espinoza and Johnny Mac. Jason Giambi hasn't been a bad add either, btw....

Moving on..Reasons for optimism..in the second half..

-Eight ( Myers doesn't count as he has been told he'll be in the pen) starting pitchers all competing.. The only knock on these guys is the length of their outings. Otherwise, they're a solid if not savvy group of hard throwing hounds.. Masterson, Ubaldo, Kazmir, Kluber, Z-Mac, Bauer, Carrasco, & Salazar. If the Indians feel they need an extra arm from this group to go to the pen.. the best candidate (read: it's not going to happen) would be Masterson followed by Salazar and then Kazmir.. This is quite the dilemma to have..

-Top of the order.. Bourn, Cabrera, Kipnis, Swisher, Brantley, & Santana provide an order that makes pitchers work. Then the Indians add the deuce and a quarters (Reynolds, Lonnie, & Stubbs) with a productive bench of Aviles and Raburn, not to mention Jason "Mr Production" Giambi and this is a solid offensive club. The team is still on pace to score over a hundred runs more in 2013 than they did in 2012. (775 v 667). This is like getting 2 feet of putts to use anywhere you want during a round of golf.. even Hermie might be able break 90 with this advantage!!..

Reasons for pessimism..

-Call it the near "40's".. four Indians relievers have made nearly or more than 40 appearances during the first half. While having four guys spreading this wealth, so to speak, could be considered a good thing and there being no set optimal value for too many appearances / innings by the relief corp, It is a clear indicator of an area of the team that could feel the stress. There is an old school thought that if the pen is used too much, it will fail. What defines too much is similar to the means by which Asdrubal Cabrera's defensive metrics are determined, that is, he's terrible but makes all the plays and flashes the leather for all to see... Through the 95 games played, the Tribe pen has been taxed at a rate or to the extent of ten outs per game. Just like the offensive metrics in baseball exists to define what creates runs, my approach defines pitching metrics as how to create outs. For the pen, ten of them, every game.. so far. That's a lot of outs.. If everything remains the same in the second half, the Indians pen will need to figure out how to create 670 outs.. FWIW.. it looks like the first casualty of the bullpen tax will be the eroding K-rates..

Thoughts?...


Hmm...moving your best starter, the guy with the most shutouts in all of baseball (3) and a guy that's still averaging over 6.5 innigns per start the last 2 months while "struggling" is the guy the Tribe should move to the pen??!! Really? :rolleyes

CRAPOLA on a CRACKER HERE!!!

Also disagree on the Tribe batting order being the one to go with (as mentioned above). Putting Kipnis 3rd is a waste, same with Swisher 4th.


Hermie hermie hermie.. did you miss the part that said: (read: it's not going to happen) Yes.. your reading comprehension skills need some work..

How can someone disagree with a batting order?.. makes no sense.. IT'S WRONG!!. well.. by what measure is it wrong.. oh.. no measure..just an opinion.. smh.. It's different..it's not the one you would use.. btw.. Kipnis batting third.. is a good idea and not a waste... You put your best hitter in the three hole and build the lineup around that player.. If you can name one player on the Indians that could be considered a better hitter than Kipnis this season, then, put that guy into the three hole.... Simply stated.. you can't.. :rolleyes
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby ChadS17 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:54 am

GeronimoSon wrote:Voting Kluber as the best addition is kind of wrong.. He was here already. So, I'm changing my vote from Aviles to utility guy.. that is, Mike Aviles and Ryan Raburn, together have formed perhaps the best pair of utility guys the Indians have had since the days of Alvaro Espinoza and Johnny Mac. Jason Giambi hasn't been a bad add either, btw....


Speaking of reading comprehension skills, I said the biggest surprise is Kluber. Not the best addition. It is not kind of wrong. This was in response to Bob stating that the starting rotation is the biggest surprise on the year.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:07 pm

ChadS17 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Voting Kluber as the best addition is kind of wrong.. He was here already. So, I'm changing my vote from Aviles to utility guy.. that is, Mike Aviles and Ryan Raburn, together have formed perhaps the best pair of utility guys the Indians have had since the days of Alvaro Espinoza and Johnny Mac. Jason Giambi hasn't been a bad add either, btw....


Speaking of reading comprehension skills, I said the biggest surprise is Kluber. Not the best addition. It is not kind of wrong. This was in response to Bob stating that the starting rotation is the biggest surprise on the year.

The title of the thread = Best Addition. oh well..
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby daingean » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:22 pm

IMO the best addition in the first half has been Mickey Callaway....i know he's not a player but the improvement i've seen in the SP staff has been significant (still has a ways to go)......with that improvement, i'm a bit miffed on the BP taking a step back....
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:34 pm

daingean wrote:IMO the best addition in the first half has been Mickey Callaway....i know he's not a player but the improvement i've seen in the SP staff has been significant (still has a ways to go)......with that improvement, i'm a bit miffed on the BP taking a step back....


I agree with you on the BP..it speaks to the volatility of the guys that are there... the coaches.. everything...
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby daingean » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:12 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
daingean wrote:IMO the best addition in the first half has been Mickey Callaway....i know he's not a player but the improvement i've seen in the SP staff has been significant (still has a ways to go)......with that improvement, i'm a bit miffed on the BP taking a step back....


I agree with you on the BP..it speaks to the volatility of the guys that are there... the coaches.. everything...


One thing about the Braves run in the 90's....Mazzone was so good with the starters but his BP's were not always good. In '95 Wohlers was good and in '91 with Alejandro Pena, Juan Berenguer, Marvin Freeman and Kent Merker (when not starting) was very good too. Aside from those, the BP's were only average......I think teams should have a SP pitching coach and a BP pitching coach to have better results (different routines and pitch sequences) - actually they do but the pitching coach gets all the credit/blame for the BP's also.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:16 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Voting Kluber as the best addition is kind of wrong.. He was here already. So, I'm changing my vote from Aviles to utility guy.. that is, Mike Aviles and Ryan Raburn, together have formed perhaps the best pair of utility guys the Indians have had since the days of Alvaro Espinoza and Johnny Mac. Jason Giambi hasn't been a bad add either, btw....

Moving on..Reasons for optimism..in the second half..

-Eight ( Myers doesn't count as he has been told he'll be in the pen) starting pitchers all competing.. The only knock on these guys is the length of their outings. Otherwise, they're a solid if not savvy group of hard throwing hounds.. Masterson, Ubaldo, Kazmir, Kluber, Z-Mac, Bauer, Carrasco, & Salazar. If the Indians feel they need an extra arm from this group to go to the pen.. the best candidate (read: it's not going to happen) would be Masterson followed by Salazar and then Kazmir.. This is quite the dilemma to have..

-Top of the order.. Bourn, Cabrera, Kipnis, Swisher, Brantley, & Santana provide an order that makes pitchers work. Then the Indians add the deuce and a quarters (Reynolds, Lonnie, & Stubbs) with a productive bench of Aviles and Raburn, not to mention Jason "Mr Production" Giambi and this is a solid offensive club. The team is still on pace to score over a hundred runs more in 2013 than they did in 2012. (775 v 667). This is like getting 2 feet of putts to use anywhere you want during a round of golf.. even Hermie might be able break 90 with this advantage!!..

Reasons for pessimism..

-Call it the near "40's".. four Indians relievers have made nearly or more than 40 appearances during the first half. While having four guys spreading this wealth, so to speak, could be considered a good thing and there being no set optimal value for too many appearances / innings by the relief corp, It is a clear indicator of an area of the team that could feel the stress. There is an old school thought that if the pen is used too much, it will fail. What defines too much is similar to the means by which Asdrubal Cabrera's defensive metrics are determined, that is, he's terrible but makes all the plays and flashes the leather for all to see... Through the 95 games played, the Tribe pen has been taxed at a rate or to the extent of ten outs per game. Just like the offensive metrics in baseball exists to define what creates runs, my approach defines pitching metrics as how to create outs. For the pen, ten of them, every game.. so far. That's a lot of outs.. If everything remains the same in the second half, the Indians pen will need to figure out how to create 670 outs.. FWIW.. it looks like the first casualty of the bullpen tax will be the eroding K-rates..

Thoughts?...


Hmm...moving your best starter, the guy with the most shutouts in all of baseball (3) and a guy that's still averaging over 6.5 innigns per start the last 2 months while "struggling" is the guy the Tribe should move to the pen??!! Really? :rolleyes

CRAPOLA on a CRACKER HERE!!!

Also disagree on the Tribe batting order being the one to go with (as mentioned above). Putting Kipnis 3rd is a waste, same with Swisher 4th.


Hermie hermie hermie.. did you miss the part that said: (read: it's not going to happen) Yes.. your reading comprehension skills need some work..

How can someone disagree with a batting order?.. makes no sense.. IT'S WRONG!!. well.. by what measure is it wrong.. oh.. no measure..just an opinion.. smh.. It's different..it's not the one you would use.. btw.. Kipnis batting third.. is a good idea and not a waste... You put your best hitter in the three hole and build the lineup around that player.. If you can name one player on the Indians that could be considered a better hitter than Kipnis this season, then, put that guy into the three hole.... Simply stated.. you can't.. :rolleyes


No, I did not miss that part....still doesn't change the fact that you said the guy that is "the best candidate" to go to the pen was Masterson, which is ridiculous.


Very easy to disagree with a batting order. And no, you do not want your best hitter batting 3rd. Several managers in the game agree and have moved started hitting their best hitters in the 2nd spot, not the 3rd (Cano hit 2nd a lot, Mauer hits 2nd, Bautista hits 2nd, Trout has hit 2nd). Your #3 hitter bats fewer times than your leadoff or #2 hitter over the course of a season...why would you want your best hitter hitting less? Your #3 hitter will also bat with 2 outs and no one on more than anyone else in the lineup over the course of a season....why would you want your best hitter up with no one on and 2 outs? #2 hitter comes up to bat over the course of a season with roughly the same number of RBI chances as the #3 hitter does...but again, comes up more often.

Saying your best hitter should bat 3rd is like saying batting average is more important than OBP or Fielding Percentage is the best way to gauge a fielder's worth (obviously neither is true). Kipnis should be batting leadoff, 2nd or 4th...but definitely not 3rd. Not saying that changing the order will be the big difference (I'm not). Making the best possible lineup versus making the worst possible will only result in a couple wins (if that) difference....but sometimes a win or two could be the difference between making the playoffs and not...

Couple good reads for those that care:

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/3/17/795946/optimizing-your-lineup-by
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130405&content_id=43974688&vkey=news_min&c_id=min
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Bearcatbob » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:11 pm

IMO it is becoming perfectly clear that Michael Bourn was by far the best addition! While not a player - the hiring of Francona appears to also critical to our success (and Callaway?).
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:09 am

Bearcatbob wrote:IMO it is becoming perfectly clear that Michael Bourn was by far the best addition! While not a player - the hiring of Francona appears to also critical to our success (and Callaway?).


Agree.. Michael Bourn has truly become the table setter the Indians envisioned... an excellent acquisition..
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Prosecutor » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:20 am

Maybe Bourn has been the MVP among the new acquisitions, but if you're looking for a "biggest steal" or "most bang for the buck" candidate, I nominate Yan Gomes.

Kazmir gets some serious consideration as well. Both those guys are coming on strong lately. Gomes has 14 hits in his last 22 at-bats and is now hitting .310. He also hits with power and is gunning down over 50% of base stealers, not to mention picking guys off the bags like he did last night.

By my count the Indians are 11 games over .500 when Gomes catches (28-17), and 2 games over when he doesn't. That's a .622 winning percentage, which would be best in the majors. I'm not saying the Indians would have the best record in the majors if Gomes caught every game, but it's a fact that the team's winning percentage is much better when he plays than when he doesn't.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:43 pm

Prosecutor wrote:Maybe Bourn has been the MVP among the new acquisitions, but if you're looking for a "biggest steal" or "most bang for the buck" candidate, I nominate Yan Gomes.

Kazmir gets some serious consideration as well. Both those guys are coming on strong lately. Gomes has 14 hits in his last 22 at-bats and is now hitting .310. He also hits with power and is gunning down over 50% of base stealers, not to mention picking guys off the bags like he did last night.

By my count the Indians are 11 games over .500 when Gomes catches (28-17), and 2 games over when he doesn't. That's a .622 winning percentage, which would be best in the majors. I'm not saying the Indians would have the best record in the majors if Gomes caught every game, but it's a fact that the team's winning percentage is much better when he plays than when he doesn't.

Pros.. the thread title..says addition(S).. so all of the above matter and make sense.. Agree with the Yanimal.. or is it Obi Yan?.. either or..good addition to go with Aviles for Esmil who?
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Edible14 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:47 pm

Esmil Rogers has been decent this year for the Jays. But when you look at what they've trotted out at 2B and Catcher, you can't help but think they'd really like Aviles and Gomes back.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:02 pm

Raburn to me is becoming the best add offensively. He's got the best fWAR of any new adds (3rd best on team behind Kipnis and Masterson). He has the best OPS on the team (by far). Still like Aviles a lot as we would have been in a world of hurt when AC went down without him, but Raburn just keeps on raking at the plate. Posted a .900+ OPS in the first half..and somehow has been even better since posting one over 1.000 so far in the 2nd half.

For me the best additions are in order (to this point, subject to change as year goes on):

1. Raburn
2. Gomes
3. Kazmir
4. Aviles
5. Swisher
6. Bourn
7. Stubbs
8. Reynolds
9. Giambi
10. Albers
11. Shaw
12. Hill

List would change if was a best adds for the future of the club thread, but Raburn and Kaz need near the top IMO despite being on 1 year deals.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Prosecutor » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:09 am

You think Swisher has been a better add than Bourn, Hermie? Really?
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:28 am

Prosecutor wrote:You think Swisher has been a better add than Bourn, Hermie? Really?


Come on Pros.. Bourn's OBP is 5 points below his career average, his OPS is off a whole point!!

HE SUCKS !!

DFA HIM !!

LOL...
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:34 pm

Prosecutor wrote:You think Swisher has been a better add than Bourn, Hermie? Really?


Honestly both haven't been good. Could flip flip them I suppose. Bourn only has a .333 OBP...for a leadoff hitter that's nothing special (actually it's only .330 out of the leadoff spot). 17 steals and 8 caught, again nothing special. I know some will say "but he switched leagues, it's hard to get to know pitchers/catchers"...well, Stubbs switched leagues and is a perfect 13 for 13 in steals. Also this is my list. I obviously am in the minority but for me the #1, #2, and #3 most important things for a leadoff hitter are OBP, OBP...and OBP. Get on base, period. Sure speed is nice but you can't steal first base. Bourn's OBP isn't top half of leadoff hitters. Ranks 16th out of 28 (min 200 PAs)...behind guys like Everth Cabrera, Eric Young Jr, Nate McLouth, Aoki, and David DeJesus. Think most would agree (at least I'd hope) that the #1 job for a leadoff hitter is to get on base. Some will say it's "to score runs" which is definitely the goal but can't score if you don't reach base...just a fact.

Now has Nick Swisher been good? No..he was a below average cleanup hitter. His OPS ranked 15th out of 24 guys (min 200 PAs) while hitting cleanup. Only 9 HRs too. Reason I sort of give him a pass is because he has 265 ABs out of the cleanup spot this year...prior to this year he has 74 ABs out of the cleanup spot..in his entire career. Swisher has been mismanaged all year. He's also been bouncing between 1B and RF all year (more than he has in the past) whereas Bourn has been in CF only.

Also, here are their WARs from various sites this year, for those interested:

Swisher: fWAR (fangraphs) is 1.5, brWAR (Baesball-Reference/ESPN) is 2.3, and WARP (Baseball Prospectus) is 1.7
Bourn: fWAR (fangraphs) is 1.9, brWAR (Baseball-Reference/ESPN) is 1.7, and WARP (Baseball Prospectus) is 1.3

Bottom line is both have been disappointments (at least to me), but Swisher's position flexibility (and lineup mismanagement) pushes him just ahead of Bourn for me. Personally don't think putting Swisher ahead of Bourn here is anywhere near as bad as saying Bourn has been a better add than Raburn, Kazmir and Gomes (as a few have said)...but again, just my opinion.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby ASUTribefan » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:36 pm

While we are on the subject of additions

While Didi Gregorius hasn't exactly lit up the National League, so far he's provided a better return to Arizona than Bauer has to Cleveland, which is more a function of how bad Bauer's been since the trade.

Bauer has two major issues -- his velocity is way down, and he can't make an adjustment when it's clear that he can't locate near the strike zone. Bauer was still sitting in the 92-93 range in his few outings in the majors, but in Triple-A he has been more in the 89-90 range, which, for a guy who hit 97 mph regularly in college but never had great life on the fastball, is a serious problem.




Did he blow his arm out or something?
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby ASUTribefan » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:06 pm

as for additions next year, the FA group for our needs really suck

No real upgrades at 3B, hope McCain hits the FA market and you go hard after him and move Santana to the DH spot

no pitchers really stand out for the long and short terms, maybe Garza but everyone will be after him and he might even resign with texas
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:54 am

ASUTribefan wrote:While we are on the subject of additions

While Didi Gregorius hasn't exactly lit up the National League, so far he's provided a better return to Arizona than Bauer has to Cleveland, which is more a function of how bad Bauer's been since the trade.

Bauer has two major issues -- his velocity is way down, and he can't make an adjustment when it's clear that he can't locate near the strike zone. Bauer was still sitting in the 92-93 range in his few outings in the majors, but in Triple-A he has been more in the 89-90 range, which, for a guy who hit 97 mph regularly in college but never had great life on the fastball, is a serious problem.




Did he blow his arm out or something?


Dont believe Bauer is injured, but I think the strain of pitching professionally and his stupid delivery quirks are getting the better of him. There has been a lot of talk that he's been working on a lot of adjustments throughout this season. For a guy like Bauer who talks big game about pitching mechanics he sure has a lot he needs to change. Look at how easy Salazar was throwing, not his velocity but his delivery. Not much to it, but Bauer....just all over the place.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby ASUTribefan » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:16 pm

Drew Stubbs vs Leftys

.299 BA
.382 OBP
.411 SLG %
.793 OPS
24 Runs
15 BB
6 2B
2 HR
13 RBI
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:40 pm

ASUTribefan wrote:Drew Stubbs vs Leftys

.299 BA
.382 OBP
.411 SLG %
.793 OPS
24 Runs
15 BB
6 2B
2 HR
13 RBI


He's always hit lefties well. As said before, he's a solid platoon/4th OFer.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:45 pm

ASUTribefan wrote:as for additions next year, the FA group for our needs really suck

No real upgrades at 3B, hope McCain hits the FA market and you go hard after him and move Santana to the DH spot

no pitchers really stand out for the long and short terms, maybe Garza but everyone will be after him and he might even resign with texas


No thanks on McCann. Gomes and Santana (plus Marson) should be fine for behind the plate. Wouldn't be opposed to moving Santana from behind the plate though. too many other teams have much bigger needs behind the plate for the Tribe to land McCann.

upgrades could (and likely will) from trades this winter. Perez and Cabrera will both be making $10M (perez maybe more). Tribe likely will look to move at least one if not both. Tribe could look to trade for a 3B if they aren't sold on chiz (maybe Headley?). I'd also keep an eye on Stanton for RF. Will be arby eligible so never know with the Marlins.

Don't see the Tribe making a big splash in the pitching department but never know. They seemed in on Jackson, maybe they look at Phil Hughes (not a big fan but solid away from Yankee Stadium).
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Hermie13 » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:16 am

http://espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney/post/_/id/2785/winter-ball-worries-top-10-moves


Olney ranked the Kazmir signing as the 4th best move this winter. Called the Gomes acquisition (along with Aviles) the 10th best move this winter.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:06 pm

Hermie13 wrote:http://espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney/post/_/id/2785/winter-ball-worries-top-10-moves


Olney ranked the Kazmir signing as the 4th best move this winter. Called the Gomes acquisition (along with Aviles) the 10th best move this winter.


Pirates signing of Liriano = # 1.. a stud lefty, starting pitcher with a 12-5 record and sub 3 ERA putting his team into first place with the best record in Major League Baseball.. should be just a weee bit more highly regarded than proving that Santana wasn't in irretrievable regression... :rolleyes

Olney can be such a putz...
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Prosecutor » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:16 am

Bourn's numbers are right on his career average across the board. Swisher, on the other hand, is way off. His OPS is about 80 points below his norm, and he's on pace to drive in only 48 runs in over 500 at-bats, and that's while hitting cleanup for much of the season. To me Swisher is trying too hard and he's been a major disappointment, although I expect he'll bounce back next year.

Bourn is exactly who we thought he would be minus the stolen bases. I think you have to consider the defense he brings to center field which has a ripple effect in that it allowed Stubbs to move to right field, which improved the defense there as well.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Hermie13 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:21 pm

Prosecutor wrote:Bourn's numbers are right on his career average across the board. Swisher, on the other hand, is way off. His OPS is about 80 points below his norm, and he's on pace to drive in only 48 runs in over 500 at-bats, and that's while hitting cleanup for much of the season. To me Swisher is trying too hard and he's been a major disappointment, although I expect he'll bounce back next year.

Bourn is exactly who we thought he would be minus the stolen bases. I think you have to consider the defense he brings to center field which has a ripple effect in that it allowed Stubbs to move to right field, which improved the defense there as well.


Depends what "we" thought he would be. I actually think he has been (almost) exactly what I thought he'd be...an average leadoff hitter with very good speed and very good defense, and a guy that's gonna get caught stealing a lot (leading the league currently...would be 3rd time he's done that).


I actually agree that Swisher has been a big disappointment, even moreso than Bourn....but he's still been as good if not better this year than Bourn (at least IMO).
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Prosecutor » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:51 am

You could be right, but another disappointing aspect regarding Swisher is his inability to play right field more than occasionally. As a result, Stubbs has had to play a lot more against right-handed pitching than they wanted him to, IMO. Stubbs has 224 AB's against righties and is only hitting .214. His OPS is .603 against righties, .807 against lefties. He's a perfect platoon player but has had to play a lot against righties because Swisher's arm problem prevents him from playing the outfield most of the time.

And he's not hitting enough, either for average or power, to justify playing him at first base.

Bourn, OTOH, has been a competent centerfielder, although not a great leadoff hitter. But he's the only one we have.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:53 pm

Prosecutor wrote:You could be right, but another disappointing aspect regarding Swisher is his inability to play right field more than occasionally. As a result, Stubbs has had to play a lot more against right-handed pitching than they wanted him to, IMO. Stubbs has 224 AB's against righties and is only hitting .214. His OPS is .603 against righties, .807 against lefties. He's a perfect platoon player but has had to play a lot against righties because Swisher's arm problem prevents him from playing the outfield most of the time.

And he's not hitting enough, either for average or power, to justify playing him at first base.

Bourn, OTOH, has been a competent centerfielder, although not a great leadoff hitter. But he's the only one we have.


Raburn has an .848 OPS against righties. Stubbs hasn't played a lot against righties just cause of Swisher's shoulder, but because Francona has chosen to play Stubbs over Raburn too much.

Another reason Stubbs has played a lot against righties is because outside of Raburn, there is no good platoon guy on the team. Giambi is a lefty...but his OPS against righties is only .654. Plus he can't play everyday and most days you'll have a righty out there. This is one reason before the season i was hoping for a nice lefty OFer to come in as a platoon and why some were hoping for Schierholtz at the deadline.

Swisher was told when brought in that he was going to play 1B...he played mostly 1B in spring training..and now that his shoulder got hurt because we bounced him around more than we would have liked it's Swisher's fault? I agree that Bourn has played a competent CF...but Swisher has been solid at 1B himself. I also disagree that we don't have another leadoff hitter. Kipnis could easily hit leadoff with his OBP around .370. Even Brantley could. Stubbs could against lefties.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:00 pm

This may belong in a different thread but with Stubbs as a platoon guy being brought up, thought it could go here. I really like the additiosn this year, even though some didn't work out (Myers). However, I do think the Tribe went a tad overboard on getting RH hitters/guys that hit lefties well. I know that was a big issue in the past and needed addressed, but the Tribe brought in Reynolds, Aviles, Raburn, Stubbs, and Swisher...all who tend to hit lefties better than righties. Only Bourn has been better against righties.

Tribe went from struggling against lefties...to scoring the 2nd most runs in the AL against them (behind TB) and having the 2nd highest team OPS against lefties in the AL this year (.770, behind only Detroit).

However, against righties the Tribe has only scored the 7th most runs in the AL and has only the 9th best OPS against them in the AL (.721).

Hitting lefties well is great...but there are just way more RH starters you're gonna face. Detroit has 5 righties, 0 lefties....any wonder we struggle to score against them?

I am not a huge Adam Dunn fan...but if they ate some salary, may not be the worst add (OPS nearly .850 againt righties). Tribe really needs a big LH bat (or at least a guy that kills righties) in this lineup if it wants to compete.
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Re: Best Additions This Year

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:06 pm

Hermie13 wrote:This may belong in a different thread but with Stubbs as a platoon guy being brought up, thought it could go here. I really like the additiosn this year, even though some didn't work out (Myers). However, I do think the Tribe went a tad overboard on getting RH hitters/guys that hit lefties well. I know that was a big issue in the past and needed addressed, but the Tribe brought in Reynolds, Aviles, Raburn, Stubbs, and Swisher...all who tend to hit lefties better than righties. Only Bourn has been better against righties.

Tribe went from struggling against lefties...to scoring the 2nd most runs in the AL against them (behind TB) and having the 2nd highest team OPS against lefties in the AL this year (.770, behind only Detroit).

However, against righties the Tribe has only scored the 7th most runs in the AL and has only the 9th best OPS against them in the AL (.721).

Hitting lefties well is great...but there are just way more RH starters you're gonna face. Detroit has 5 righties, 0 lefties....any wonder we struggle to score against them?

I am not a huge Adam Dunn fan...but if they ate some salary, may not be the worst add (OPS nearly .850 againt righties). Tribe really needs a big LH bat (or at least a guy that kills righties) in this lineup if it wants to compete.

Are you speaking about an addition of a LH bat between now and the end of the season or for next year? The attendance hasn't risen to the point where fans are making being at the games a "must do" event, so, it seems most likely you are speaking of the roster for the 2014 season, and beyond.. As of this point, it looks like the Indians will have over $ 30 MM in salaries that may be gone in 2014. These include pitchers Chris Perez, Ubaldo Jimenez, Brett Myers, Joe Smith, Matt Albers, Scott Kazmir and Rich Hill. The position players possibly departing consist of Jason Giami.. The Indians can also include the $ 2.5 MM owed to PRONK and the $ 3.5 MM owed to Cinci for the Choo Deal..

It's clear that a lot of discussion and soul searching and evaluation is needed, but it would not be a huge stretch to say that the Indians would be willing to bring back Smith, Albers and Kazmir. These moves could/would make some sense..but how many cents?.. Chris Perez could be the biggest non-tender decision they're going to make this off season.. he's the devil the Indians and their fans know..

As a guess, It wouldn't be a huge surprise to see Smith, Albers and Kazmir cumulatively require $ 14 MM in 2014. That leaves about $16-18 MM to fill the holes left behind... along with an ever improving farm system... How about this idea: What are the chances the Indians welcome back Shin-soo BIG LEAGUE Choo?..

thoughts..
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