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June 1 Starting Rotation

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June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby Bearcatbob » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:12 pm

Any guesses on what the starting rotation will be on June 1?
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby A.Zajac » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:14 am

Masterson, McAllister, Kazmir, Myers, Ubaldo .. I know, not very risky.

By the end of the season? Masterson, McAllister, Bauer, Kazmir, Kluber
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:07 am

Agreed, I don't think we see much of any change until at least the trade deadline. Although I'd add Carrasco to the list during September. At this point and his most recent antics and suspension Carrasco will likely be stuck in the minors for a while.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby indians1 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:06 am

Right now we have one dependable starter.

This year could turn very ugly very soon. We have nothing to help this rotation. Trevor Bauer is it. Brett Myers, Kasmir, and Ubaldo are garbage.
McCalister is ok, but he is probably a #3 (at best) and probably a #4 or #5 on a playoff team..

Our starting rotation is pure crap and it will take its toll.

At some point, mark shapiro and chris antonetti need to be relieved of their duties and stop wasting the dolan's money.
How much money has this FO put out on the draft and on their own players/or FA that have been complete busts?

At some point we have to stop throwing junk at the wall and hope something sticks. This franchise is not built on pitching and that is what you need to compete.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby A.Zajac » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:15 am

indians1 -- while I understand your frustration, I think you're overreacting a little. To say we only have one dependable starter is just non-sense. McAllister has been all that we've could have asked for so far. Sure, he'll never be an ace, but he's kept this team in games. I consider that dependable. Masterson is off to a great start, but since you made the comment about McAllister... Masterson isn't an ace on a playoff team. He's a 2/3.. that still doesn't take away from what he's doing. Myers had a rough two outings, but his last outing was encouraging. He only gave up the two run HR at the end and one walk. The bats just didn't pick him up. We aren't sure yet who the real Myers is, but don't discount his last outing. And of course, Ubaldo is Ubaldo. But come on... it's MID-APRIL!!!!! It's a 162 game season. We all are frustrated and disappointed with the slow start the team is off to, but take a deep breath.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:18 pm

Lol wait a minute....did someone just say that Shapiro and Antonetti need fired for....wait for it....wasting the Dolans money? Lol what a difference one offseason makes.

This product isn't finished, and really never will be finished, but the starting rotation needs addressed, and I'm confident it will be before long. Both internally and externally. Plenty of trade bait, all the way from Jose Ramirez to Asdrubal Cabrera.

Ubaldo needs dealt with, no question. Kazmir hasn't even had a start yet. Lets see what else happens with Bauer and Carrasco. Let things play out before pushing the panic button.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby Edible14 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:30 pm

I think that Kazmir is probably gone by September if Myers and Ubaldo are as well. He's on a one-year deal, and if both of those guys fail hard enough to get dumped, then Kazmir will probably be traded (if he does well) or dumped as well. That being said, I expect that Myers will rebound a bit, and will be given some time to get things right. In a scenario where the Indians are contending come September, I think Masterson, McAllister, Myers and Kazmir are all part of that rotation. If they're not, I think you go youth movement.

Still annoys me that the Indians re-upped Ubaldo on his option. I know the rotation was thin, and there's no way to know we might have had a legitimate shot at Lohse, but it seems to me that there was very little reason to believe that Ubaldo would even be better than Kluber.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby indians1 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:56 pm

Lets get a couple of things straight. I have never accused the Dolans of being cheap. I said last year that shapiro and antonetti should be gone because their "blueprint for success" has been a failure. Their focus in 2002 when this thing was broken up was going to be on pitching . Their focus was going to be draft and draft quality arms. If they had an abundance, they would trade for an area of need.

In 12 years of drafting with this regime, how many starting pitchers have they produced that have done anything? Fausto is the closest. Sure they made some trades, but if you are going to be consistent contender, you have to draft well.

As far as trade bait, we have asdrubal and lindor and that is it. We have nothing in the minors. Have you seen our AAA and AA rosters?

Before you say Ronny rodriguez and Urshela ( or whatever the spelling is) all you have to do is look at their BB/K ratios to know they will not make it to the majors. They are going to be carlos rivero type players.

We have nothing in our farm system of any value. Franciso Lindor is it. So that is why i say shapiro and antonetti have to go. They have failed in the implementation of their plan. It was a good plan on paper, but they have failed in the execution.

Whether it is brad grant or john mirabelli, the drafting still isn't where it needs to be. Right now Bourn and swisher are band aids on a huge bleed.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby Prosecutor » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:13 am

They absolutely need to do a better job in the draft. Kipnis, Chiz, Hagadone and Pestano are about all they have to show at this point. And it's getting harder to make those trades that have saved the franchise from being the Houston Astros.

Like Benuardo for Choo and ACab. Which has morphed into Benuardo for ACab, Bauer, Stubbs, Albers, and Shaw. That one was not bad.

Casey Blake on his last legs for Carlos Santana.

The corpse of Mark DeRosa for Chris Perez.

Three months of CC Sabathia for Michael Brantley.

Austin Kearns for Zach McAlister.

I forgot who we traded to get Joe Smith (Franklin Gutierrez?) but I like that deal, too.

Once they finally got the green light to spend some money they picked up Swisher, Myers, Reynolds, Aviles, and Bourn.

They also picked up some nice prospects in Latin America that are working their way up through the system. Jose Ramirez and Dorssys Paulino, for example.

So the draft has really been the only failure. They've had some bad luck with career ending injuries to Adam Miller and Jason Knapp, and the failure to develop of Andy Marte and Matt LaPorta has really hurt. But yeah, the drafting has been pretty bad. Until that changes this team won't be successful because teams are shying away from those Benuardo and Austin Kearns type trades and the Tribe will never have a lot of money to spend in free agency.

Although this new rule which forces teams to give up first round draft picks if they sign free agents is really helping so far. No way we get Bourn without that.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby daingean » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:20 am

sorry to hijack the thread (or continue the hijack)

There is no question that this team has not drafted/developed talent well over the last 10 years or so. Really the only exception would be in the relief pitching options.

I would say that since 2008 the draft philosophy has changed. They went with more athletic players. Some of this may be related to failures like Aubrey and Weglarz in that they tried to move first basemen to the outfield which may have contributed to their injury history. It's easier to move athletic guys from the middle of the diamond out to the corners.

As for pitching, I'm not sure all of the issues are with the draft. The team has been quick to move power arms to the bullpen and the finesse guys stay in the rotation (i.e. Sowers and Huff). I just don't like this team's (and most team's) approach to developing starters.

Back to what the thread was intended:

Masterson, McAllister, Myers, Kazmir, Bauer (but I think that Ubaldo will be given till mid-May before they make a move).
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby indians1 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:50 pm

The question is then "how does the problem with developing starting pitching get fixed"? That is why i point to shapiro and antonetti. They have been running the show for a while now. They make the decisions on the scouts and directors of different areas of the organization.

I don't know if the problem gets fixed unless you change the guys making the decisions. They changed their philosophy on being more aggressive and drafting more power arms. That has not worked. Either because of wrong evaluation or they can't keep guys healthy which is another problem.

The indians seem to have a tough time keeping their best players/prospects healthy. There are some injuries you can't prevent but how many of our "good arms" are going down with injuries. It's one thing if is a couple of guys but every big name pitcher that has any hype gets injured.

Adam miller, Jason Knapp, Kelvin De La Cruz, carrasco, austin adams, bryce stowell. I think this organization is fundamentally flawed and refuses to address the root cause.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby A.Zajac » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:56 pm

indians1 --- you make a change i.e. fire Antonetti, you run a HIGH risk of losing Francona. Shapiro and Antonetii are the reason why Francona is here. It's all in or bust.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby indians1 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:09 am

If you can't develop any of your own talent, what good is it to even have terry francona here?

I don't get how people think Francona is going get a team that has very little talent in the starting rotation and magically turn it around.

You need some talent and francona and his pitching staff may be able to mold or get the most of talented players. But this team has subpar starters in the rotation.

Ubaldo is garbage. Brett Myers is a relief pitcher. Carlos Carrasco is a head case who never did anything other than pitch at the high levels of AA and AAA at a young age yet never had elite stats.

I said it before, the only way this team has a chance to compete is if trevor bauer makes it to the majors and dominates. Because right now you have masterson who is a #2 at best. McCalister is a 3 or 4 guy. I don't get how terry francona is going to change those facts.



We have not competed since 2007 for the division. We made the moves in the draft room by replacing mirabelli and brad grant still has not drafted one elite pitcher to help the major league team. Drew Pomeranz and Alex White are busts. All the money we have spent on over slot players has failed. Not one of them are panning out.

HOw can we compete if we are a small market team that's only way to consistently compete is to hit on players in the draft and we have not hit on one.

We still don't know about kipnis and chisenhall. They are young but they haven't shown that they can be elite at the major league level. They haven''t proven anything. With the track record of this FO, we can't give them the benefit of the doubt.

Other than drafting some good relievers, what is there in farm system.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby daingean » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:48 am

#1: Francona has been worth a lot to this franchise to this point....we probably would never have been able to get Swish and Bourn without way overpaying.....they both cited Francona as a major reason for picking Cleveland. The season is still early and at some point TF will have to start winning

#2: I think the Indians (and many ML team's philosophy) is flawed by the hard pitch count. HS pitchers are used to going 6 or 7 innings (7 innings for the studs) and college guys are used to going 7-9 innings a game. Now they only go 1 game a week in college then they get drafted and have to retrain their muscles for once every 5 days but lower innings. I think if you want to train a starter you train them to go 9. Maybe gradually shorten the interval between games from 7 to 5 as they climb the ladder but hard pitch counts train guys to go 3-5 innings and when they get to higher levels....what are they relievers.

#3: I also think the Indians are quick to move guys to the BP especially guys with velo.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby BrianM » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:10 pm

If you can't develop any of your own talent, what good is it to even have terry francona here?

I don't get how people think Francona is going get a team that has very little talent in the starting rotation and magically turn it around.

You need some talent and francona and his pitching staff may be able to mold or get the most of talented players. But this team has subpar starters in the rotation.

Ubaldo is garbage. Brett Myers is a relief pitcher. Carlos Carrasco is a head case who never did anything other than pitch at the high levels of AA and AAA at a young age yet never had elite stats.

I said it before, the only way this team has a chance to compete is if trevor bauer makes it to the majors and dominates. Because right now you have masterson who is a #2 at best. McCalister is a 3 or 4 guy. I don't get how terry francona is going to change those facts.



We have not competed since 2007 for the division. We made the moves in the draft room by replacing mirabelli and brad grant still has not drafted one elite pitcher to help the major league team. Drew Pomeranz and Alex White are busts. All the money we have spent on over slot players has failed. Not one of them are panning out.

HOw can we compete if we are a small market team that's only way to consistently compete is to hit on players in the draft and we have not hit on one.

We still don't know about kipnis and chisenhall. They are young but they haven't shown that they can be elite at the major league level. They haven''t proven anything. With the track record of this FO, we can't give them the benefit of the doubt.

Other than drafting some good relievers, what is there in farm system.


Sad rant, but overall, I agree. We have had high picks in these drafts too and have very little to show for it. I also agree that Francona can't turn this team around himself. Were never going to be able so sign a FOR FA pitcher, and if we are able to sign a MOR starting pitcher next winter, he will surely be the only one. Francona and the front office will never be able to fill more than 1 or 2 spots in the rotation with FA's that are capable of being productive. We need to develop them ourselves. Cross your fingers for the Bauer, Salazar, Brown, Baker, Howard wave of pitchers.

Also would like to add that I would be very curious to see how Pomeranz would be performing today if he had never been traded...I dont think we can call him a bust yet. He may just need to get out of that Rockies system.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:08 am

..filling one or two spots on the rotation with effective free agents would be a dream come true.. The bargain bin selection of MOR/BOR SP's has very little chance of engendering a fan base to believe this is the missing piece!. In 2013, the Indians selected Scott Kazmir & Brett Myers (to go with Masterson, Ubaldo and Z-Mac).. So far, they aint it. Myers started poorly (and it appears there's a physical reason for this) and got worse while Kazmir had a 14 run cushion to pitch behind.. so it's hard to say what he has. He wasn't able to last through the fifth to get the W, so that might be an indication. He'll need at least ten starts to really see what he is.. or isn't.. The remaining choices for the Indians starting rotation include Trevor Bauer, Corey Kluber, Carlos Carrasco and some "other guys"... FWIW, the comments about Carrasco's maturity may have merit, but, personally, any pitcher who has the cajones to buzz / hit a batter, especially one that constantly whines about every friggan pitch can pitch on my team. If you watched the 'incident', it was clear that Carrasco's landing foot slid.. Youk's response was worthy of an academy award.. The HORSEBLEEP comments by the local media about Carrasco were very much in the same vein as how Chris Perez was portrayed, i.e. he attacked the fans/front office/etc.. Truth is still the truth, Perez spoke up for and supported the fans, supported his team.. Carrasco's landing foot slid and caused him to buzz Youk for which he apologized.. end of story.. no suspension merited, imho..

Indians1 comment about the peril the Indians are in as it relates to Trevor Bauer & the season's outcome is premature, reactionary & naive, but, that's how he rolls in his cup half empty world where he fears being wrong second..

As far as the Pomeranz and or his future.. IDK.. I don't know how that could be measured, but, with the current set of data, he is a bust for the Rockies..Same with Alex White. They've both been poor to terrible in the small sampling of results at the ML level...
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu May 16, 2013 10:39 am

In a note posted above.. indication was made that Scott Kazmir needed at least 10 starts to determine what the Indians have with him.. To start with, there was an article about Kazmir posted on HardBall Times that gave some understanding to Kazmir's change from a couple years ago to where he is today.. the link is: http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/artic ... oove-back/

There are a couple of things going on with his starts.. the first one was pretty much a disaster from a 'statistics' perspective, but, was clearly a different kind of game than what can/should be expected on a regular basis. The Indians scored three touchdowns to back up Kazmir's "pitching". It appeared that he was just throwing the ball.. no intensity..no purpose..a spring training game where a veteran pitcher just gets his work in.. and the stats showed that.. The next three outings were solid. He gave up one walk while getting seven K's in three quality starts..This is a guy that can pitch and is quite encouraging. He showed great velocity & command of his fastball and his slider was devastating. Then came his last outing against the Phillies at CBB.. This outing left a lot to be desired.. His velocity, which had been touching 95/96 mph, was down in the 91/92 range.. and the Phillies were able to score a few runs off him.. Kazmir did limit the damage, but, it clearly wasn't a good day for his FB velocity and command.. and his slider depth was a bit "flat"..Two issues that, in the past, led to him becoming a nibbling walking soon to be "darling" of the Sugarland Skeeters of the independent Atlantic League of Professional Baseball!!

Lots more to come..
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby Bearcatbob » Sun May 26, 2013 9:51 pm

Perhaps a better question would have been would be the bullpen rotation on June 1. Now we know how Seattle felt last weekend.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby A.Zajac » Mon May 27, 2013 2:08 am

Tell ya what... With Myers coming back, I almost hate to see Kluber head back to Columbus. Never thought I would utter those words, but I am.

Jeff and I on this past week's episode of The Inside Pitch were just entertaining the idea if Kazmir continued to struggle to put him in the 'pen and have Kluber take over the rotation spot. Would I do that right now? No. Down the road? Maybe. If our bullpen depth continues to shrink thin, maybe you convert one of our starters to the 'pen.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon May 27, 2013 9:25 am

A.Zajac wrote:Tell ya what... With Myers coming back, I almost hate to see Kluber head back to Columbus. Never thought I would utter those words, but I am.

Jeff and I on this past week's episode of The Inside Pitch were just entertaining the idea if Kazmir continued to struggle to put him in the 'pen and have Kluber take over the rotation spot. Would I do that right now? No. Down the road? Maybe. If our bullpen depth continues to shrink thin, maybe you convert one of our starters to the 'pen.


I don't think Kazmir to the bullpen should be dependant on Kluber or Myers. At least in the sense that Kazmir has done little to warrent a spot in the rotation IMO.

Kluber has actually looked better at times than his #'s would suggest. I think his K to BB ratio is something like 40:7 right now. He's been dependable at least, going 6 innings in each of his last 3 starts, and only having 1 start this year where he gave up more than 3 earned.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby timdav » Mon May 27, 2013 11:40 am

Just heard on the radio Myers rehab activity has been stopped due to soreness (elbow? shoulder? ....can't recall which).

So, looks like Masterson, Jimenez, Mc Allister, Kazmir, Kluber.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon May 27, 2013 12:04 pm

If that's true I wonder if Myers is done for...1) an extended period, 2) the season, 3) only a minor set back. Certainly, looks and feels like he could be down for awhile.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby Bearcatbob » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:26 pm

This question is starting to sort itself out.

Masterson
Ubaldo
McAllister (I hope is well)
Kluber
Carrosco
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:08 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:This question is starting to sort itself out.

Masterson
Ubaldo
McAllister (I hope is well)
Kluber
Carrosco


Yep, and once McAllister comes back, put Kazmir in the 'pen and get Rich Hill the hell out of here.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:28 am

A.Zajac wrote:
Bearcatbob wrote:This question is starting to sort itself out.

Masterson
Ubaldo
McAllister (I hope is well)
Kluber
Carrosco


Yep, and once McAllister comes back, put Kazmir in the 'pen and get Rich Hill the hell out of here.


That sounds like a really good idea. ..but Kazmir has always been an SP (190 out of 191 appearances in the ML's).. While it may solve the "..how does Tito/CA get Rich Hill out of here...", this solution may be just as risky... The baseball gods have a way of sorting this stuff out..Seldom does a team have "too many" good pitching options.. or, at least, not for long..
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby Bearcatbob » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:45 pm

LOL - anyone watching Kazmir tonight has to wonder what his upside is. It seems to me the starting pitching "problem" is being resolved. Now - if we could fix the non pitching problem - the bull pen.

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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby Edible14 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:14 am

I don't know where Myers fits in at this point. You look at the bullpen guys and I don't see one that clearly warrants a demotion in favor of Myers. I don't see that in the rotation either. I only really see a spot for the guy if someone gets hurt.

Kluber has a following now on Fangraphs, where now his every start is being documented. The stats enthusiasts over there LOVE him, and it was pointed out much earlier in the season that his career BABIP, FIP and FIPx were all indicating that he was a much better pitcher than he had shown. I noted back in May that through 15 career starts he had an FIP in the .360 range, and that's gone down 30 points in the 7 starts since then (his ERA has also trended towards his FIP/xFIP, which both predicted he'd be more of a low-3 ERA kind of pitcher. He's sort-of the anti Josh Tomlin.

Speaking of Tomlin, where does THAT guy fit in next year? Assuming Myers is jettisoned and Kazmir had departed... you still have Kluber, Masterson, McAllister and Carrasco at a minimum. Bauer should be in the mix too, and Ubaldo could be here as well. And even with Smith and Albers gone, there's still not really any room in the bullpen (Perez, Pestano, Allen and Shaw as 4/5 of the righties. Herrmann, Wood, Langwell, Lee, Salazar and Adams are all possibilities for that 5th righty spot). And Tomlin really doesn't have the kind of stuff that you'd think "maybe that plays up in the bullpen".

I know everyone says we "need" a starter to compete, but honestly we have "good" starters, and plenty of them. The thing we lack is elite starters, and those are pricey on the rare occasions that they're on the market. What the team seems to need is a starting 3B and a dependable left handed reliever. And maybe a catcher that plays good defense.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:03 pm

ed: ...I know everyone says we "need" a starter to compete, but honestly we have "good" starters, and plenty of them. The thing we lack is elite starters, and those are pricey on the rare occasions that they're on the market. What the team seems to need is a starting 3B and a dependable left handed reliever. And maybe a catcher that plays good defense...


The good starters the Indians have (Masterson, Ubaldo, Kazmir, Kluber, McAllister, Carrasco, Bauer, and, at least technically Myers/Tomlin) gives the Indians a group of 9. While the 2014 season will 'take care of itself' in time, the 2013 season's starters encompass no more than two or three # 3 starter with the remaining group being middle to back of the rotation type guys. The ability to improve the quality of the pitching staff via trades is further exacerbated by the current status of the team.. second place and gaining..

What can be done to shift the balance of the staff from capable to elite??.There is no easy answer that doesn't bring pain or risk.. Risk that includes damaging the team's chances to make the playoffs in 2013 (not that they're that great to begin with).. A trade of one of the 'front line SP's can be seen as capitulation by the general / fair weather fans.. or, it could be the non-move that portends the sinking of the ship.. a la the refusal of John Hart to trade Jaret Wright for Pedro way back when..

IDK what would be worse.. ..being close and not making the playoffs in 2013..or making a trade that would bring an elite, FOR SP to our wigwam and, in the process, blowing up 2013..

The next question becomes.. who to target.. who to trade and who to NOT target or trade..It's a tough question to answer. If the decision is biased toward fiscal conservatism, then Masterson/Perez/Asdrubal become the trade pieces, making 2013 a bummer.. These three guys have short enough contracts that the returned value would be biased negatively.. With a farm system that has so few impact prospects, they would have to be considered as "pawns" (aka: the least valuable playing piece in this scenario) in this equation.. So, very little help would be forthcoming from the farm system..

Teams that are currently searching for a "good" starting pitcher to continue their efforts at competing include the Yankees, Giants, Red Sox and Rangers... Each have interesting 'pieces' that may be considered by the Indians FO...
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby A.Zajac » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:07 pm

Edible14 wrote:I don't know where Myers fits in at this point. You look at the bullpen guys and I don't see one that clearly warrants a demotion in favor of Myers. I don't see that in the rotation either. I only really see a spot for the guy if someone gets hurt.

Kluber has a following now on Fangraphs, where now his every start is being documented. The stats enthusiasts over there LOVE him, and it was pointed out much earlier in the season that his career BABIP, FIP and FIPx were all indicating that he was a much better pitcher than he had shown. I noted back in May that through 15 career starts he had an FIP in the .360 range, and that's gone down 30 points in the 7 starts since then (his ERA has also trended towards his FIP/xFIP, which both predicted he'd be more of a low-3 ERA kind of pitcher. He's sort-of the anti Josh Tomlin.

Speaking of Tomlin, where does THAT guy fit in next year? Assuming Myers is jettisoned and Kazmir had departed... you still have Kluber, Masterson, McAllister and Carrasco at a minimum. Bauer should be in the mix too, and Ubaldo could be here as well. And even with Smith and Albers gone, there's still not really any room in the bullpen (Perez, Pestano, Allen and Shaw as 4/5 of the righties. Herrmann, Wood, Langwell, Lee, Salazar and Adams are all possibilities for that 5th righty spot). And Tomlin really doesn't have the kind of stuff that you'd think "maybe that plays up in the bullpen".

I know everyone says we "need" a starter to compete, but honestly we have "good" starters, and plenty of them. The thing we lack is elite starters, and those are pricey on the rare occasions that they're on the market. What the team seems to need is a starting 3B and a dependable left handed reliever. And maybe a catcher that plays good defense.


On your first notion of what to do when Myers comes back.. I see only two likely scenarios: Kazmir gets sent to the bullpen, Myers takes his spot, and Hill is DFA OR Myers goes to the bullpen and Matt Albers is DFA. However, I think the first scenario is the more likely of the two. We're paying Myers a lot of money (esp. in comparison to Kazmir).. Let's be honest with ourselves.. Masterson isn't going anywhere, Kluber has earned a spot, Carrasco is probably here to stay unless something drastic happens, and we're going to stick it out with Ubaldo.. so I mean.

In terms of next year, I can see Tomlin being the long guy/the Matt Albers of the 'pen next year. Next year's rotation, IMO: Masterson, McAllister, Carrasco, Kluber, BAUER.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby Edible14 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:33 pm

A.Zajac wrote:On your first notion of what to do when Myers comes back.. I see only two likely scenarios: Kazmir gets sent to the bullpen, Myers takes his spot, and Hill is DFA OR Myers goes to the bullpen and Matt Albers is DFA. However, I think the first scenario is the more likely of the two. We're paying Myers a lot of money (esp. in comparison to Kazmir).. Let's be honest with ourselves.. Masterson isn't going anywhere, Kluber has earned a spot, Carrasco is probably here to stay unless something drastic happens, and we're going to stick it out with Ubaldo.. so I mean.

In terms of next year, I can see Tomlin being the long guy/the Matt Albers of the 'pen next year. Next year's rotation, IMO: Masterson, McAllister, Carrasco, Kluber, BAUER.


I'm not sure that Myers displaces Kazmir. But even if he did, it seems like he'd be the odd man out as soon as McAllister returned from injury (and it's possible that McAllister beats him back to the roster anyway). Kazmir is a good pick to move to Hill's spot... I wonder though if there's some sort of agreement between him and the F.O/Francona that would prevent that from happening.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby GoTribe028 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:22 pm

Figured since this thread regards the rotation I would put this in here. I know the Indians are not likely going to outbid Boston (who reportedly has big interest) but it's something to look out for.

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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby A.Zajac » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:46 pm

I've almost come to the point where I want Hagadone gone more than I do Hill.. and that's really saying something.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby Edible14 » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:58 pm

A.Zajac wrote:I've almost come to the point where I want Hagadone gone more than I do Hill.. and that's really saying something.


Scary thing about Hagadone is that his BABIP is .232. Which means this is him *getting lucky*. Rich Hill can make the argument that he'll be better when his BABIP normalizes (it's at .388), and his FIP/xFIP suggest that he'll come back down to being roughly the pitcher he's been all his career. That's a decent reliever, nothing more.

But Hill is probably still more likely to go, because Hagadone is the younger guy with more club control. Because someone has to be bumped from the 40 when Myers comes back (Wood is also pretty close, and even if he's just optioned down, we'll need a corresponding 40 move). Hill is okay, but he's gone at the end of the year anyway and if they're bumping people off of the 40, he's a better choice. Although, maybe they just DFA Santos and one of Diaz/McDonald instead. Or move Marson to the 60.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby A.Zajac » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:07 pm

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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby Bearcatbob » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:09 am

How did Myers last rehab go? I can see him being the combo pitcher with Carasco and Ubaldo. They do a five and fly and Myers pitches innings 6 and 7.

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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby ChadS17 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:15 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:How did Myers last rehab go? I can see him being the combo pitcher with Carasco and Ubaldo. They do a five and fly and Myers pitches innings 6 and 7.

Bob


Apparently he was warming up for the Aeros but didn't come into the game. Possibly another setback.
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Re: June 1 Starting Rotation

Postby Bearcatbob » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:15 pm

Well, we are past July 1.

I think the starting rotation is:

1. Masterson
2. Ubaldo
3. Kluber
4. Kazmir
5. McAllister

Carasco has bombed. Bauer has bombed. Myers has disappeared. If the list above is right - we need McAllister healthy like yesterday. Alternately - a trade is imminent. IMO we will likely see Salazar before a trade - just in case we do not need one.
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