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MLB Hot Stove

Talk about the Cleveland Indians, Major League Baseball, and other sports.

MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:42 pm

I just wanted to provide a source for posting trades, FA moves, trade rumors, etc., of interest.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:47 pm

The AZ Dbax, A's and Marlins made the first move of the offseason well before the season ended. Here's the 3 team move:

The Dbax recieved Heath Bell and $8 mil from the Marlins and Cliff Pennington formerly of the A's.
The A's recieved Chris Young and $500 K from the Dbax.
The Marlins recieved minor leaguer Yordy Cabrera from the A's.

The other big deal sent mgr John Farrell and P David Carpenter from Toronto to Boston for Mike Aviles.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby daingean » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:56 pm

According to MLB Trade Rumors........projected Arby numbers for Indians players:

Shin-Soo Choo - $7.9MM
Chris Perez - $7.2MM
Justin Masterson - $5.7MM
Kevin Slowey - $2.8MM
Joe Smith - $2.7MM
Rafael Perez - $2MM
Jack Hannahan - $1.5MM
Tony Sipp - $1MM
Lou Marson - $800K
Brent Lillibridge - $700K

I can't see the Indians offering arby to Slowey.....the others I can but doubt on Hannahan and Lillibridge (but cheap enough maybe) and wonder on Raffy's projected health.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:58 pm

Does anyone object to using this "thread" as a place to put Speculative ideas or would a separate thread be needed to weed out the real from the sublime..

Also, when the posting goes into the:

CA is an idiot and should be fired..
MS is an idiot and should be fired..
LD is a cheap idiot and should be fired...

Can one of the moderators grow a pair and delete the posting???????
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:16 pm

My intention was to use this thread as a source to see / reflect on moves by all MLB teams but also rumors. ie ARod to Miami may never happen, but it was definately a public rumor.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:29 pm

Scott Baker of the Twins had his club option declined and is now a FA.

Could see him returning to the Twins, sort of an "I owe you one." That is of course if the Twins want him back.

Always liked Baker, just never stayed healthy.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:03 pm

The Twins have expressed interest in keeping Baker, at a reduced price of course.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:42 pm

Hyun-jin Ryu <=== could be the "patch" to keep Shin-soo Choo with the Indians while acquiring a talent left handed starter that is about to be posted..

Here's a vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hXgYXhL3d4

nice movement on his pitches.. the view from behind on the high FB strike shows the ball explodes out of his hand.. nice control too.. even the pitches that missed were close enough that ML'ers would be swinging at..

Anyone else see this candidate as "interesting"?? The Indians could possibly pay him 600,000,000 won per year ($630K) !..
Last edited by GeronimoSon on Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:46 pm

I saw some news on him earlier in the day, would the Tribe place a bid? I'm not sure but maybe they should place a few mil on him. There were some guys last yr that were posted and went cheap. I think Aoki of the Brewers was one.

Btw, he's a Scott Boras client FWIW.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby OhioBaseball » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:15 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Hyun-jin Ryu <=== could be the "patch" to keep Shin-soo Choo with the Indians while acquiring a talent left handed starter that is about to be posted..

Here's a vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hXgYXhL3d4

nice movement on his pitches.. the view from behind on the high FB strike shows the ball explodes out of his hand.. nice control too.. even the pitches that missed were close enough that ML'ers would be swinging at..

Anyone else see this candidate as "interesting"?? The Indians could possibly pay him 600,000,000 won per year ($630K) !..


Meh...that guy looks like a dime a dozen kind of guy at the MLB level. Maybe he's got some Dennys Reyes in him, but I wouldn't get too excited about him.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:45 pm

Angels reportedly exploring trades before desicions are needed on Dan Haren and Ervin Santana

Both would be interesting targets for Cleveland IMO
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:39 pm

I think the salaries are too big for both Haren and Santana unless they eat part of it.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby OhioBaseball » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:14 pm

daingean wrote:According to MLB Trade Rumors........projected Arby numbers for Indians players:

Shin-Soo Choo - $7.9MM
Chris Perez - $7.2MM
Justin Masterson - $5.7MM
Kevin Slowey - $2.8MM
Joe Smith - $2.7MM
Rafael Perez - $2MM
Jack Hannahan - $1.5MM
Tony Sipp - $1MM
Lou Marson - $800K
Brent Lillibridge - $700K

I can't see the Indians offering arby to Slowey.....the others I can but doubt on Hannahan and Lillibridge (but cheap enough maybe) and wonder on Raffy's projected health.


Thanks for the info. Shapiro just stated that 1 WAR is worth about $9MM. Chris Perez was +0.8 WAR last year (Fan Graphs), and averaged +0.6 WAR over the last three years. Given that Perez is projected to be $7.2MM next year, I can't image he's got much trade value. I suppose his value is that you don't have to lock yourself into him beyond one year, so that helps, but I don't expect the Indians to get much out of Chris Perez. He's a +0.5 to +1 WAR player, so $7+ million isn't much of a value. They could flip him for a nice relief prospect in AAA or something, or a low level prospect. Hope they get multiple teams that like him to bid up the price.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:34 am

Indians sign 18-year-old Japanese outfielder Takuya Tsuchida per Hoynes/MlbTradeRumors

http://sulia.com/channel/cleveland-indi ... ce=twitter
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby daingean » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:45 am

OhioBaseball wrote:
Thanks for the info. Shapiro just stated that 1 WAR is worth about $9MM. Chris Perez was +0.8 WAR last year (Fan Graphs), and averaged +0.6 WAR over the last three years. Given that Perez is projected to be $7.2MM next year, I can't image he's got much trade value. I suppose his value is that you don't have to lock yourself into him beyond one year, so that helps, but I don't expect the Indians to get much out of Chris Perez. He's a +0.5 to +1 WAR player, so $7+ million isn't much of a value. They could flip him for a nice relief prospect in AAA or something, or a low level prospect. Hope they get multiple teams that like him to bid up the price.


I think MS was making the $9M fper 1 WAR with regard to the FA market but statements like that will certainly be used by agents in the arbitration process. And with regard to CPerez's trade value, all it takes is 1 team to be interested....I don't expect a windfall but some guys can be added to sweeten the pot (like Cord Phelps or David Huff) and get a grade A MLB ready player and a usable young piece. When it comes to prospects, I it would be hard to slot some guys at lower levels (especially middle infielders but you could add C and OF to that list). At least that is what my asking price would be.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby OhioBaseball » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:29 am

daingean wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:
Thanks for the info. Shapiro just stated that 1 WAR is worth about $9MM. Chris Perez was +0.8 WAR last year (Fan Graphs), and averaged +0.6 WAR over the last three years. Given that Perez is projected to be $7.2MM next year, I can't image he's got much trade value. I suppose his value is that you don't have to lock yourself into him beyond one year, so that helps, but I don't expect the Indians to get much out of Chris Perez. He's a +0.5 to +1 WAR player, so $7+ million isn't much of a value. They could flip him for a nice relief prospect in AAA or something, or a low level prospect. Hope they get multiple teams that like him to bid up the price.


I think MS was making the $9M fper 1 WAR with regard to the FA market but statements like that will certainly be used by agents in the arbitration process. And with regard to CPerez's trade value, all it takes is 1 team to be interested....I don't expect a windfall but some guys can be added to sweeten the pot (like Cord Phelps or David Huff) and get a grade A MLB ready player and a usable young piece. When it comes to prospects, I it would be hard to slot some guys at lower levels (especially middle infielders but you could add C and OF to that list). At least that is what my asking price would be.


Regardless of whether it's free agency or not, it's about acquiring talent. If a team can acquire 1 WAR in free agency for $9MM, why would they be willing to give up anything of value for roughly 0.8 WAR if they have to pay $7.2MM? Those are proportionally the same exact values. (As I stated before, however, the value in Perez is that you wouldn't have to obligate your team beyond one year, whereas you may have to go 2-3 years via free agency, so that's good for Perez' value) Outside of the maturity of the contract, there's no value for a team acquiring Perez in terms of WAR.

Now, if there is no comparable talent available via free agency and there are multiple teams interested in Perez, that could drive up the value. I hope that's the case.

Conversely, Justin Masterson as a +2 to +3 WAR guy at $6MM, there is financial value there that would be very difficult to duplicate in free agency. Same goes for Choo. They have trade value.

I just don't expect much for Chris Perez via the trade market. He's a couple million dollars away from being considered as a non-tender guy. If he was getting paid $9-10MM, would the Indians even want him if he's less than a 1 WAR guy (based on Shapiro's comments)?

BTW, random comment, for those that have mentioned Scott Baker as a free agent target, I agree.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:52 am

Hot Stove guys.. just the hot stove... WAR valuation and epididymis slamming can be placed in another thread..

Andre Ethier? I only mention this name because the Indians seem to do extremely well whenever they make trades with a select group of teams..The Dodgers just happen to be one of them (Mariners too). Ethier has a big contract that stretches out to 2017 at $ 85 MM (17 MM/yr).

By acquiring Ethier, the Indians, for all intents and purposes, would have an expensive replacement for Choo and both their corner OF spots covered.

It's possible that there may need to be a third team involved to make a trade work.. Someone looking for a SS (Asdrubal) who has an SP that the Dodgers could plug into their rotation.. A's or Rays maybe?
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby OhioBaseball » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:05 am

GeronimoSon wrote:Hot Stove guys.. just the hot stove... WAR valuation and epididymis slamming can be placed in another thread..


Hey GS, we're discussing Chris Perez' trade value. Heaven forbid actual player value analysis is discussed rather than unsubstantiated rumors.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:15 am

OhioBaseball wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Hot Stove guys.. just the hot stove... WAR valuation and epididymis slamming can be placed in another thread..


Hey GS, we're discussing Chris Perez' trade value. Heaven forbid actual player value analysis is discussed rather than unsubstantiated rumors.


OB..Okay.. Chris Perez's trade value to what team? for which player or players that aren't "Mark Shapiro" or "WAR"?..
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby OhioBaseball » Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:03 am

GeronimoSon wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Hot Stove guys.. just the hot stove... WAR valuation and epididymis slamming can be placed in another thread..


Hey GS, we're discussing Chris Perez' trade value. Heaven forbid actual player value analysis is discussed rather than unsubstantiated rumors.


OB..Okay.. Chris Perez's trade value to what team? for which player or players that aren't "Mark Shapiro" or "WAR"?..


Chris Perez' value to any team. Why would a team want to trade for him if they can get comparable production from free agency? (Did you not comprehend my post?) I think Perez has trade value, but it's not much for the reason I cited.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:35 pm

daingean wrote:According to MLB Trade Rumors........projected Arby numbers for Indians players:

Shin-Soo Choo - $7.9MM
Chris Perez - $7.2MM
Justin Masterson - $5.7MM
Kevin Slowey - $2.8MM
Joe Smith - $2.7MM
Rafael Perez - $2MM
Jack Hannahan - $1.5MM
Tony Sipp - $1MM
Lou Marson - $800K
Brent Lillibridge - $700K

I can't see the Indians offering arby to Slowey.....the others I can but doubt on Hannahan and Lillibridge (but cheap enough maybe) and wonder on Raffy's projected health.


Not completely in agreement with some of their numbers but mostly close to my preditions. Agree with you on Slowey, he's a non-tender to me. Hannahan and Lillibridge are on the fence for me. If Lillibrige goes under $1M he's fine but think he could get more. Hanny I think could be asking for closer to $2M too so think he may get non-tendered, especially with Chiz looking better at the end of the year. Tribe has stressed that they want to get a utility guy to come in that can play more SS so wonder if Hanny could be let go and someone with more SS experience brought in. Personally I keep Perez unless reports are just so bad on his shoulder. Lefty relievers can bring value in a trade so if Perez gets healthy and has a good first half could be a nice trade chip mid-season. Think he gets more than $2M though as he made more than that in 2012 and don't think he'll get less (even though that is allowable per arby rules).
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:47 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:Thanks for the info. Shapiro just stated that 1 WAR is worth about $9MM. Chris Perez was +0.8 WAR last year (Fan Graphs), and averaged +0.6 WAR over the last three years. Given that Perez is projected to be $7.2MM next year, I can't image he's got much trade value. I suppose his value is that you don't have to lock yourself into him beyond one year, so that helps, but I don't expect the Indians to get much out of Chris Perez. He's a +0.5 to +1 WAR player, so $7+ million isn't much of a value. They could flip him for a nice relief prospect in AAA or something, or a low level prospect. Hope they get multiple teams that like him to bid up the price.


I wouldn't look too much into WAR and relievers as the numbers can jump around a lot. Don't throw enough innings to get a good measure of WAR imo. Heath Bell only had a bWAR of 0.8 in 2011 and never was above a bWAR of 1.8 since 2008 yet got a big 3 year deal at his age from the Marlins. Andrew Bailey posted a 0.5 bWAR in 2011 and the Red Sox dealt Reddick and others for him. Personally I'd be with you on Perez not having great trade value but teams overvalue closers all the time in both trade value and money on the free agent market. Antonetti and the Indians need to take advantage of that with Perez. $7.2M is a lot but Chris Perez is also still pretty young (younger than Pestano) and has an extra year left, which as you pointed out isn't guaranteed. I could see several teams overpaying for him, though personally I would be upset if it was my team that did it...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:49 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:Angels reportedly exploring trades before desicions are needed on Dan Haren and Ervin Santana

Both would be interesting targets for Cleveland IMO


I mentioned both these guys in the other thread. I agree their full salaries would price them out of the Tribe's range but the Angels may eat some cash to get some value back for them. Likely would have to give up more than you did for Lowe but could be something similar.

Could maybe fit them into the payroll too if you move Chris Perez, who could be a fit in LA. Wouldn't do a straight up trade there as think you can get a guy with more years left and cheaper for Perez, but could maybe work something out there as the Angels also have an abundance of 1B/DH/OF types, something the Tribe could use...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GhostofTedCox » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:10 pm

Option officially declined on Kevin Youkilis and rumored to be declined on Delmon Young. You can sign them boty for what Hafner was going to get.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:00 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:Option officially declined on Kevin Youkilis and rumored to be declined on Delmon Young. You can sign them boty for what Hafner was going to get.


Young doesn't have an option, simply a free agent. Not a big fan of signing him personally. Would almost rather bring back Hafner at a reduced cost as he's a much better hitter (and not a huge fan of bringing back Hafner anymore). Heck, Shelley Duncan had a better OPS+ this year than Delmon Young. Suppose if the money is cheap but someone will overpay Young based off the playoffs, but he's not worth much IMO. He did hit lefties very well this year, which obviously the Tribe could use but for what he'll likely cost, again I just don't see him as a good option. But just my opinion.

Think Youk is a legit option for the Tribe though with Francona in the mix. Aging but could be a nice 1B/DH option going forward if the years are right (maybe 2 with an option).
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:50 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:Angels reportedly exploring trades before desicions are needed on Dan Haren and Ervin Santana

Both would be interesting targets for Cleveland IMO


I mentioned both these guys in the other thread. I agree their full salaries would price them out of the Tribe's range but the Angels may eat some cash to get some value back for them. Likely would have to give up more than you did for Lowe but could be something similar.

Could maybe fit them into the payroll too if you move Chris Perez, who could be a fit in LA. Wouldn't do a straight up trade there as think you can get a guy with more years left and cheaper for Perez, but could maybe work something out there as the Angels also have an abundance of 1B/DH/OF types, something the Tribe could use...


The Angels are exploring their options with these two guys.. They know that if they find a team that is willing to pay a "good" portion of one of their contracts, they can avoid the buy out and get a possible fill in player.. Example: The Rangers asking for Haren/Santana (Both pitchers have sucked against the Rangers, so they'd improve their numbers when playing for them)..The Rangers offer Cody Buckell and Haren's Buy out price ( $3.5 MM) for Santana. Do the Angels make that deal?.. Switch out Haren and Santana if the Rangers prefer to acquire Haren..

At the end of the day (or is it three days?.it's pretty darn soon, whatever day it is).. the Angels have to make a decision quickly.. Someone not in Japan searching for marginally talented slap hitting OF'ers might be wise to check this potential out.. no?...

edit: Found this posting this morning at MLB Trade Rumors regarding qualifying offers for pending Options / FA's:

...Dan Haren: This is a tricky one for the Angels. They can buy out Haren's $15.5MM option for $3.5MM; doing so indicates they don't value him at $12MM for one year. To make a qualifying offer after paying the buyout is a risk they probably would not take. The Halos could exercise Haren's option and then trade him, kicking in the $3.5MM they would have had to pay anyway and getting some kind of useful player in return...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:00 am

Hermie13 wrote:
GhostofTedCox wrote:Option officially declined on Kevin Youkilis and rumored to be declined on Delmon Young. You can sign them boty for what Hafner was going to get.


Young doesn't have an option, simply a free agent. Not a big fan of signing him personally. Would almost rather bring back Hafner at a reduced cost as he's a much better hitter (and not a huge fan of bringing back Hafner anymore). Heck, Shelley Duncan had a better OPS+ this year than Delmon Young. Suppose if the money is cheap but someone will overpay Young based off the playoffs, but he's not worth much IMO. He did hit lefties very well this year, which obviously the Tribe could use but for what he'll likely cost, again I just don't see him as a good option. But just my opinion.

Think Youk is a legit option for the Tribe though with Francona in the mix. Aging but could be a nice 1B/DH option going forward if the years are right (maybe 2 with an option).


I'm weary about Kevin Youkilis.

He posted some recockulous numbers at U.S. Cellular Field this year. Posted an OPS of 1.062 in 130 AB's there. Hit well in more limited AB's in Fenway. Youk was awful almost everywhere else he played. Not to mention his last few seasons away from those 2 parks have been pretty fugly as well.

What he does do well, no matter where he's at, is draw walks. Plus he hit lefties fairly well. Something the Indians need improvement at.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:18 am

Here's a link to a cpl international FA who will be on mkt this offseason...
http://www.npbtracker.com/2012/10/2013-free-agents/
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:28 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:Here's a link to a cpl international FA who will be on mkt this offseason...
http://www.npbtracker.com/2012/10/2013-free-agents/


Wasn't there an outfielder from Japan that the Indians (among a few others) had interest in? Right handed hitting. Was in his early 30's I believe, not sure if he signed with anyone in the states in the end.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:27 am

GoTribe028 wrote: I'm weary about Kevin Youkilis..


wary"

Reminded me of the Bull Durham scene:

Respect for Oneself and Respect for the Game : On the bus, at the beginning of a 12-day road trip. Nuke is playing the guitar and singing. Crash comes up from the back of the bus, and takes the guitar from him.
Crash Stop it.
Nuke What?
Crash It's not woolly. Nobody gets woolly. Women get weary. They don't get woolly. Nobody gets "stress." They're wearing a "dress." I hate people that get the words wrong.
Nuke How come you don't like me?
Crash You don't respect yourself. That's your problem, but you don't respect the game. And that's my problem.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:49 am

GeronimoSon wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote: I'm weary about Kevin Youkilis..


wary"

Reminded me of the Bull Durham scene:

Respect for Oneself and Respect for the Game : On the bus, at the beginning of a 12-day road trip. Nuke is playing the guitar and singing. Crash comes up from the back of the bus, and takes the guitar from him.
Crash Stop it.
Nuke What?
Crash It's not woolly. Nobody gets woolly. Women get weary. They don't get woolly. Nobody gets "stress." They're wearing a "dress." I hate people that get the words wrong.
Nuke How come you don't like me?
Crash You don't respect yourself. That's your problem, but you don't respect the game. And that's my problem.


You're not even worth the time anymore troll.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Prosecutor » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:53 am

Hold onto Chris Perez, hope he has a strong first half and that a contender's closer goes down with an injury.

Same approach for Jimenez.

I would trade Choo at the first decent opportunity before he gets another DUI or gets his wrist shattered by an inside fastball.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:14 am

I think they'll look to move one of Choo and Perez this offseason and likely the other at the deadline. I'm sure we all know just about anyone goes for the right price, but guys who may have some rumors around them or that at least get some serious calls about them...

Masterson, ACab, Smith and maybe Marson.

Smith is in his walk yr, the Tribe has depth in the pen and my guess is Smith will be traded maybe at the deadline or is part of a larger pkg type deal. I like him and would like to see them extend him short term 2/3 yrs but its hard to say if he would sign a team friendly deal and you just never know with relievers. I doubt they move both Smith and Perez during the offseason unless they add a piece maybe through a trade or a affordable FA to offset the move. It should be a interesting offseason nonetheless.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:29 am

@ go tribe,

There was but I don't remember the name or whatever became of him. Was it Che Ysaun-Lin? Waived by the RedSox and claimed by the Astros, who you could be thinking of---from what I heard the Tribe did have interest. He's from Taiwan btw, but it seems there was an OF from Japan in his early 30's but I'm drawing a blank on his name.

That list I posted earlier from the NPB is weak middle infielders and one relief pitcher. It's the Closer from the Hashin Tigers Kyuji Fujikama (30) that should garner some interest around the league. He's asked to be posted every yr since 2006 and is finally a FA. As far as stuff he's got a FB that sits 92-94 and hits 97 with nasty late movement and also throws a CB and Splitter. Fujikama would likely slide into a middle relief role until he's deemed ready for late innings work which could happen qkly.

Fujiyama 3W -3L 1.24 era. 51 IP. 80 K. 16 BB. 56 g.

Here's a link on him... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyuji_Fujikawa
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:50 am

GoTribe028 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote: I'm weary about Kevin Youkilis..


wary"

Reminded me of the Bull Durham scene:

Respect for Oneself and Respect for the Game : On the bus, at the beginning of a 12-day road trip. Nuke is playing the guitar and singing. Crash comes up from the back of the bus, and takes the guitar from him.
Crash Stop it.
Nuke What?
Crash It's not woolly. Nobody gets woolly. Women get weary. They don't get woolly. Nobody gets "stress." They're wearing a "dress." I hate people that get the words wrong.
Nuke How come you don't like me?
Crash You don't respect yourself. That's your problem, but you don't respect the game. And that's my problem.


You're not even worth the time anymore troll.
Idiot..
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:09 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:I'm weary about Kevin Youkilis.

He posted some recockulous numbers at U.S. Cellular Field this year. Posted an OPS of 1.062 in 130 AB's there. Hit well in more limited AB's in Fenway. Youk was awful almost everywhere else he played. Not to mention his last few seasons away from those 2 parks have been pretty fugly as well.

What he does do well, no matter where he's at, is draw walks. Plus he hit lefties fairly well. Something the Indians need improvement at.


I am definitely wary of Youk as well, but as you pointed out he does still draw walks and that's something the Tribe values. Don't think the Indians would go more than 2 guaranteed years on him and maybe someone goes 3 or gives him more money, but just think he's a free agent we could have a shot at and does fill a need. How well he fills that need is a debate. Wouldn't put him at the top of my free agent wish list but like him more than I did Kotchman this past winter.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:17 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:edit: Found this posting this morning at MLB Trade Rumors regarding qualifying offers for pending Options / FA's:

...Dan Haren: This is a tricky one for the Angels. They can buy out Haren's $15.5MM option for $3.5MM; doing so indicates they don't value him at $12MM for one year. To make a qualifying offer after paying the buyout is a risk they probably would not take. The Halos could exercise Haren's option and then trade him, kicking in the $3.5MM they would have had to pay anyway and getting some kind of useful player in return...


I know Haren battled some back issues so maybe there's still some issues but I still can't see why the Angels would even really consiser buying out Haren. Sure they could use taht $12M savings to go harder after Greinke, but Haren posted a 3.58 ERA in the 2nd half after being of the best pitcher in the AL in 2011. Not an Ace but a legit #2 when he's healthy. Can't imagine there won't be several teams lining up to trade for him especially if the Angels pay $3.5M of his salary (aka, the buyout). A 1 year, $12M deal essentially for a pitcher of Haren's capaiblities is a steal IMO even if you have to give up something somewhat decent. If he ends up bouncing back you could then easily make him an arby offer next winter for around $13M and end up with a 1st round draft pick (or "worst case" he accepts and get him on a 1 year, $13M deal).

Again though, maybe there's some more serious injury issue with Haren that hasn't been reported?
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:30 pm

Haren finished well last yr the injury was deemed more normal wear and tear. His stuff was affected but at 32 and yrs on his arm he could be somewhat declining. I'd definitely consider him worth a risk.

There have been rumors that TX was interested him.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:33 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Haren finished well last yr the injury was deemed more normal wear and tear. His stuff was affected but at 32 and yrs on his arm he could be somewhat declining. I'd definitely consider him worth a risk.

There have been rumors that TX was interested him.


Considerign this was the first time since 2004 that Haren didn't throw at least 216 innings I can definitely understand the wear and tear arguement. Could be in for a big decline, but yeah agree completely with you that he is worth the risk (assuming you don't trade any top specs).
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Rocky55 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:34 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Does anyone object to using this "thread" as a place to put Speculative ideas or would a separate thread be needed to weed out the real from the sublime..

Also, when the posting goes into the:

CA is an idiot and should be fired..
MS is an idiot and should be fired..
LD is a cheap idiot and should be fired...

Can one of the moderators grow a pair and delete the posting???????


GeronimoSon wrote:Hot Stove guys.. just the hot stove... WAR valuation and epididymis slamming can be placed in another thread..

Andre Ethier? I only mention this name because the Indians seem to do extremely well whenever they make trades with a select group of teams..The Dodgers just happen to be one of them (Mariners too). Ethier has a big contract that stretches out to 2017 at $ 85 MM (17 MM/yr).

By acquiring Ethier, the Indians, for all intents and purposes, would have an expensive replacement for Choo and both their corner OF spots covered.

It's possible that there may need to be a third team involved to make a trade work.. Someone looking for a SS (Asdrubal) who has an SP that the Dodgers could plug into their rotation.. A's or Rays maybe?

GeronimoSon wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote: I'm weary about Kevin Youkilis..


wary"

Reminded me of the Bull Durham scene:

Respect for Oneself and Respect for the Game : On the bus, at the beginning of a 12-day road trip. Nuke is playing the guitar and singing. Crash comes up from the back of the bus, and takes the guitar from him.
Crash Stop it.
Nuke What?
Crash It's not woolly. Nobody gets woolly. Women get weary. They don't get woolly. Nobody gets "stress." They're wearing a "dress." I hate people that get the words wrong.
Nuke How come you don't like me?
Crash You don't respect yourself. That's your problem, but you don't respect the game. And that's my problem.

GeronimoSon wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote: I'm weary about Kevin Youkilis..


wary"

Reminded me of the Bull Durham scene:

Respect for Oneself and Respect for the Game : On the bus, at the beginning of a 12-day road trip. Nuke is playing the guitar and singing. Crash comes up from the back of the bus, and takes the guitar from him.
Crash Stop it.
Nuke What?
Crash It's not woolly. Nobody gets woolly. Women get weary. They don't get woolly. Nobody gets "stress." They're wearing a "dress." I hate people that get the words wrong.
Nuke How come you don't like me?
Crash You don't respect yourself. That's your problem, but you don't respect the game. And that's my problem.


You're not even worth the time anymore troll.
Idiot..


Hmmmmm...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:43 pm

The O's have declined Mark Reynolds option.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:47 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:The O's have declined Mark Reynolds option.


No surprise here either. He'll get less in arbitration. Small chance he is non-tendered but the O's could get something for him in a trade so woudln't expect that personally...

A guy I definitely wouldn't mind getting if the price is right. Played ok at 1B this year plus could DH in Cleveland. K's way, way too much but a RH power bat that we could use, plus gets on base at a decent rate. A RH version of Carlos Pena in a way and the Tribe reportedly offered him a 1yr/$8M or so deal last year (which is around what Reynolds should get in arby)...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby daingean » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:03 pm

Rafael Soriano opts out....now a FA

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8577055/rafael-soriano-opts-contract-new-york-yankees-becomes-free-agent

See who's in on signing him to see what interest there could be for CPerez.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:40 pm

daingean wrote:Rafael Soriano opts out....now a FA

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8577055/rafael-soriano-opts-contract-new-york-yankees-becomes-free-agent

See who's in on signing him to see what interest there could be for CPerez.


A guy is slated to make as much if not more than just about every other closer in the ML's ($ 14 MM) and he's advised by his agent, (Scott Borass, who else) to opt out?. When March 2013 is approaching and the best deal Soriano can get is a one year $ 5 MM deal, Soriano might lead the pack to finally realize that Scott Borass' overplaying his hand hurts everyone, not just relievers...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:16 pm

Ervin Santana and cash traded to the Royals for 27 year old lefty reliever Brandon Sisk.

Dang
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:35 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
daingean wrote:Rafael Soriano opts out....now a FA

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8577055/rafael-soriano-opts-contract-new-york-yankees-becomes-free-agent

See who's in on signing him to see what interest there could be for CPerez.


A guy is slated to make as much if not more than just about every other closer in the ML's ($ 14 MM) and he's advised by his agent, (Scott Borass, who else) to opt out?. When March 2013 is approaching and the best deal Soriano can get is a one year $ 5 MM deal, Soriano might lead the pack to finally realize that Scott Borass' overplaying his hand hurts everyone, not just relievers...


If the Yanks were to offer him arby though, he could accept and actually end up making more money....though with Boras that's probably not his plan. Teams love to overpay for closers....Marlins did give Bell $36M last year...never know, they may do it again...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:38 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:Ervin Santana and cash traded to the Royals for 27 year old lefty reliever Brandon Sisk.

Dang


Dang indeed. If he can get his HR rate back to his 2010 and 2011 levels then this could be an absolute steal for the Royals. Was really the only thing that hurt him last year. Hits, walks, K-rate,...all about the same as previous 2 years...
Last edited by Hermie13 on Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:47 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
daingean wrote:Rafael Soriano opts out....now a FA

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8577055/rafael-soriano-opts-contract-new-york-yankees-becomes-free-agent

See who's in on signing him to see what interest there could be for CPerez.


A guy is slated to make as much if not more than just about every other closer in the ML's ($ 14 MM) and he's advised by his agent, (Scott Borass, who else) to opt out?. When March 2013 is approaching and the best deal Soriano can get is a one year $ 5 MM deal, Soriano might lead the pack to finally realize that Scott Borass' overplaying his hand hurts everyone, not just relievers...


If the Yanks were to offer him arby though, he could accept and actually end up making more money....though with Boras that's probably not his plan. Teams love to overpay for closers....Marlins did give Bell $36M last year...never know, they may do it again...


Boras has been quoted as saying:
... Soriano "could get $60 million for four years" on the open market this offseason


Soriano converted 42 of 46 save opportunities.. Chris Perez converted 39 of 43 save opportunities..about the same.. If someone wants to drop 15 MM on a 27/28 year old as opposed to a 33/34 year old, that would be to their benefit. Perhaps, not only has the value of Chris Perez gone up.. but so has the urgency. The Yankees are in a situation where they are trying to lower their payroll for the 2013/2014 season.. Hello, Mr Cashman?..
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:53 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:Ervin Santana and cash traded to the Royals for 27 year old lefty reliever Brandon Sisk.

Dang


Dang indeed. If he can get his HR rate back to his 2010 and 2011 levels then this could be an absolute steal for the Rangers. Was really the only thing that hurt him last year. Hits, walks, K-rate,...all about the same as previous 2 years...


Great.. In addition to see Doug Fister from the Tigers who seems to own the Indians, now the Indians will get to see Ervin Santana three to five times each season.. He's had very good results over the last three season against the Indians (6 out of 7 starts were quality starts) including that one incredible no-hit game against the Sons of Geronimo....
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:58 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Boras has been quoted as saying:
... Soriano "could get $60 million for four years" on the open market this offseason


Soriano converted 42 of 46 save opportunities.. Chris Perez converted 39 of 43 save opportunities..about the same.. If someone wants to drop 15 MM on a 27/28 year old as opposed to a 33/34 year old, that would be to their benefit. Perhaps, not only has the value of Chris Perez gone up.. but so has the urgency. The Yankees are in a situation where they are trying to lower their payroll for the 2013/2014 season.. Hello, Mr Cashman?..


I don't think the Yanks would make a move for Chris Perez until they know more about Mariano Rivera. They have stated they want to save money and if Rivera does come back, then they most likely won't want to pay a setup guy like Perez $7M. Now if they do lose Soriano and Rivera ends up deciding to call it quits, then Perez would be a fit for the Yanks.

As far as 4/$60M for Soriano...he has been solid as a closer but that's $10M more than what Papelbon got last year (which most felt was an overpay)....more power to Boras if he really thinks he can get a team to go for it though I guess...
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