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MLB Hot Stove

Talk about the Cleveland Indians, Major League Baseball, and other sports.

Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:18 am

As always FWIW

@Ken_Rosenthal: Story from last night on Edwin Jackson talks involving #Indians and #Cubs - and how Swisher is involved. http://t.co/d1HWmIVk
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby daingean » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:26 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:The Tribe needs Jackson before they need Swisher, just my opinion. I get they probably can't afford both but should make the best effort to land them, though I'm not excited about landing Swisher. Jackson would provide some stability for the rotation and a solid 2/3 starter. As for Swisher, leave out the offer but he walked, let him keep on walking and build this team around PITCHING. The good thing is Jackson will not cost a draft picked if signed which goes further to building this club for the future.


I'm on the other side. I think Swisher adds more to the Tribe. RF will be a hole and the middle of the order will also have a large hole unless they get an impact bat there. With Swisher in the line-up, they will be able to move Reynolds and Stubbs down to the 5-8 spots in the order which will reduce the (negative) impact of their K's. I like both Reynolds and Stubbs but the K rate is concerning. Moving them down a spot puts them in acceptable spots. Plus, the difference between Swisher and his replacement (say T.Neal) is much larger than Jackson vs. the 5th starter (i.e. Gomez, Kluber, Huff).
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Tondo » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:07 am

GoTribe028 wrote:
Tondo wrote:Can someone explain to me why EJax > Marcum?

I'd rather sign Marcum...if he's cheaper, hey even better. I get that he has more durability issues, but with the plethora of no5 SPs and deep BP I'd take a shot at him, as I think a healthy Marcum is better than EJackson

Anyone know what his market looks like? How much money and years is he looking for?


Jackson has better stuff and is far more durable. You basically answered your own question with his durability issues. There are also guys available in trades that teams will likely consider first. Rick Porcello, Aaron Harang, Cjris Capuano etc.

Can see someone giving Marcum a 2 year deal tops. I'm guessing he's asking for a lot considering guys like McCarthy, who also has questions about health over the years, are getting signed. Before they wasted 15 million on Joe Blanton I thought the Angels would have taken a flier on him.


Well, EJax may have better stuff, but the better production comes from Marcum (better ERA, WHIP and career record), who before last season was quite durable and very consistent. If all he wants are 2 years? Hell yeah I'll throw my money on him instead of giving Jackson 4 years with 12-13mil....I'd even give Marcum 3 years if it comes with a slight annual discount

Marcum and B.Myers on less $ and years > 50mil+ on Jackson....that's how I would play this, would actually LOVE to see us sign BOTH Marcum and Myers and keep ACab to start the season. Would give us flexibility and good depth almost everywhere to start the season. RF would still be a problem, but the rest would look pretty good. Maybe Hairston as stop gap?

Is Marcum+Myers+Hairston even realistic budget wise? Any idea or reports what these guys are looking for per year? I would prefer this package over a big signing like Swish or Jackson + some smaller signings...and we'd keep our 2nd rounder too and have a larger budget there

What do you guys think?
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:28 am

@Buster_ESPN: The Cubs have made strong progress on a four-year, $52 million deal with Edwin Jackson.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:30 am

Tondo wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:
Tondo wrote:Can someone explain to me why EJax > Marcum?

I'd rather sign Marcum...if he's cheaper, hey even better. I get that he has more durability issues, but with the plethora of no5 SPs and deep BP I'd take a shot at him, as I think a healthy Marcum is better than EJackson

Anyone know what his market looks like? How much money and years is he looking for?


Jackson has better stuff and is far more durable. You basically answered your own question with his durability issues. There are also guys available in trades that teams will likely consider first. Rick Porcello, Aaron Harang, Cjris Capuano etc.

Can see someone giving Marcum a 2 year deal tops. I'm guessing he's asking for a lot considering guys like McCarthy, who also has questions about health over the years, are getting signed. Before they wasted 15 million on Joe Blanton I thought the Angels would have taken a flier on him.


Well, EJax may have better stuff, but the better production comes from Marcum (better ERA, WHIP and career record), who before last season was quite durable and very consistent. If all he wants are 2 years? Hell yeah I'll throw my money on him instead of giving Jackson 4 years with 12-13mil....I'd even give Marcum 3 years if it comes with a slight annual discount

Marcum and B.Myers on less $ and years > 50mil+ on Jackson....that's how I would play this, would actually LOVE to see us sign BOTH Marcum and Myers and keep ACab to start the season. Would give us flexibility and good depth almost everywhere to start the season. RF would still be a problem, but the rest would look pretty good. Maybe Hairston as stop gap?

Is Marcum+Myers+Hairston even realistic budget wise? Any idea or reports what these guys are looking for per year? I would prefer this package over a big signing like Swish or Jackson + some smaller signings...and we'd keep our 2nd rounder too and have a larger budget there

What do you guys think?


Brett Myers and Scott Hairston are both guys I would be ok with. Really haven't been connected to either at this point so well see where the Indians go should they miss on the apparent big 2
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:09 am

The signing of Nick Swisher, the pomp and ceremonies at Progressive Field, the score board, the dignitaries, yada yada all seem to be well thought out, yet, he still got on that plane and left town. Perhaps the Indians should seriously take a look at

Jair Jurrgens: His steady decline from noted prospect to being non-tendered revolves around a knee issue that has robbed him of three to five mph on his fastball. If a FB is always straight, then it better be well controlled by the SP. As a 23 -26 year old, that's usually not the case.. Patience has worn thin and JJ finds himself in search of a new team and a new start. IF his knee is right and he can drive off his back leg, he may be able to get his velo back to where it was, making him a much more effective SP.. A one year, make good deal (plus a club option) in the FAUSTO CARMONA range might make sense

Francisco Liriano: Enigmatic lefty with a big reputation and little to back it up is what Liriano offers at present. He's been battling his way back from a torn UCL for over a half decade. There's no rhyme or reason behind the time frame other than he's a mechanical creature of habit that, when he's got control of himself, he can bring his FB to a more than effective 91-93, touching 95.. He's always had a devastating slider, that has never changed. He, like Jair, would be a good candidate for a one year make good kind of deal.

Both of these guys could be would be bought for the asking price of one year of Cody Ross..imho.. thoughts?
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby timdav » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:11 am

Edwin Jackson has sure moved around a lot in his career...never seemed to be a #1 or #2 to me....and wants a LOT of $$$/yrs. for what he is: little more than a journeyman, imho.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:19 am

@JonHeymanCBS: Carlos Vlllanueva agreement with cubs is $10M for 2 yrs. nice add for chicago.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:27 am

GeronimoSon wrote:The signing of Nick Swisher, the pomp and ceremonies at Progressive Field, the score board, the dignitaries, yada yada all seem to be well thought out, yet, he still got on that plane and left town. Perhaps the Indians should seriously take a look at

Jair Jurrgens: His steady decline from noted prospect to being non-tendered revolves around a knee issue that has robbed him of three to five mph on his fastball. If a FB is always straight, then it better be well controlled by the SP. As a 23 -26 year old, that's usually not the case.. Patience has worn thin and JJ finds himself in search of a new team and a new start. IF his knee is right and he can drive off his back leg, he may be able to get his velo back to where it was, making him a much more effective SP.. A one year, make good deal (plus a club option) in the FAUSTO CARMONA range might make sense

Francisco Liriano: Enigmatic lefty with a big reputation and little to back it up is what Liriano offers at present. He's been battling his way back from a torn UCL for over a half decade. There's no rhyme or reason behind the time frame other than he's a mechanical creature of habit that, when he's got control of himself, he can bring his FB to a more than effective 91-93, touching 95.. He's always had a devastating slider, that has never changed. He, like Jair, would be a good candidate for a one year make good kind of deal.

Both of these guys could be would be bought for the asking price of one year of Cody Ross..imho.. thoughts?


Liriano is IMO the worst suggestion for the Indians out of the whole bunch IMO. He's garbage. Left handed pitcher with good stuff but no control and piss poor mechanics who struggles to do anything worthwhile. Indians just got out from under Carmona and are still saddled with Jimenez.

The Indians need to quit messing around with broken pitchers and either get a long term starter in house whether its Jackson, Marcum, Myers, Saunders or someone in another trade. Jair Jurrgens can keep searching for a new home too.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:32 am

GeronimoSon wrote:The signing of Nick Swisher, the pomp and ceremonies at Progressive Field, the score board, the dignitaries, yada yada all seem to be well thought out, yet, he still got on that plane and left town. Perhaps the Indians should seriously take a look at


He was getting on that plane regardless of what the Indians did.

That doesn't mean he is or isn't signing with the Tribe..... he was just never going to cut his trip short without seeing ALL the offers out there.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:10 pm

Edwin Jackson is better than Shaun Marcum bc...

Jackson has a Better FB, seriously Jackson hits 94 on a regular basis and throws strikes with it and gets K's. Marcum barely touches in the 90's soft tosser of sorts. Marcum has had injury concerns TJ surgery in 2008-09. Marcum pitched 21 games last yr, he's had some chronic elbow pain...I've had a serious elbow injury in the past so I understand that --- he may need TJ again...that IMO scares me away. Really it's all a matter of durability. Jackson has 6 seasons of 160+ IP and 5 seasons of 180+ IP consecutively. Marcum is a very good pitcher who utilizes his pitch ability while Jackson is durable and strike guys out. Ultimately Jackson would be better long term bc he has a history of durability. Marcum could be an interesting sign for the short term but there are serious concerns with his elbow and he might only be able to land a 1 yr deal. If that's the way they go with it I get the signing but looking beyond this season Jackson has proven he will take the hill with the pill every 5th day.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby BrianM » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:35 pm

The signing of Nick Swisher, the pomp and ceremonies at Progressive Field, the score board, the dignitaries, yada yada all seem to be well thought out, yet, he still got on that plane and left town. Perhaps the Indians should seriously take a look at

Jair Jurrgens: His steady decline from noted prospect to being non-tendered revolves around a knee issue that has robbed him of three to five mph on his fastball. If a FB is always straight, then it better be well controlled by the SP. As a 23 -26 year old, that's usually not the case.. Patience has worn thin and JJ finds himself in search of a new team and a new start. IF his knee is right and he can drive off his back leg, he may be able to get his velo back to where it was, making him a much more effective SP.. A one year, make good deal (plus a club option) in the FAUSTO CARMONA range might make sense

Francisco Liriano: Enigmatic lefty with a big reputation and little to back it up is what Liriano offers at present. He's been battling his way back from a torn UCL for over a half decade. There's no rhyme or reason behind the time frame other than he's a mechanical creature of habit that, when he's got control of himself, he can bring his FB to a more than effective 91-93, touching 95.. He's always had a devastating slider, that has never changed. He, like Jair, would be a good candidate for a one year make good kind of deal.

I'm not a big fan of these two, but I would prefer signing 2-4 of the next two tiers of SP than offer a big contract to Ejax. There are a lot of SP with upside available that could be productive, and possibly even better than productive, at the major league level. Liriano, Jurrgens, Harden, Kazmir, Marcum, Millwood, Bedard, DiceK, D Braden and even Brandon Webb come to mind. I really hope we give Kazmir a look. Reports say he's throwing hard again, and at one point he was one of the best. DiceK would also be interesting.

As other have stated, I really just don't like the idea of offering pitchers long term deals. Our main focus in drafting should be on pitching, pitching, and more pitching. Most pitchers best years come in those first six years, while position players generally hit their prime right around there first stint in FA. Buy and trade for hitters, develop your own pitching.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:09 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:The signing of Nick Swisher, the pomp and ceremonies at Progressive Field, the score board, the dignitaries, yada yada all seem to be well thought out, yet, he still got on that plane and left town. Perhaps the Indians should seriously take a look at


He was getting on that plane regardless of what the Indians did.

That doesn't mean he is or isn't signing with the Tribe..... he was just never going to cut his trip short without seeing ALL the offers out there.

I guess if you find the woman of your dreams, you leave her there and get on the plane in pursuit of what you've just left...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:19 pm

Tondo wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:
Tondo wrote:Can someone explain to me why EJax > Marcum?

I'd rather sign Marcum...if he's cheaper, hey even better. I get that he has more durability issues, but with the plethora of no5 SPs and deep BP I'd take a shot at him, as I think a healthy Marcum is better than EJackson

Anyone know what his market looks like? How much money and years is he looking for?


Jackson has better stuff and is far more durable. You basically answered your own question with his durability issues. There are also guys available in trades that teams will likely consider first. Rick Porcello, Aaron Harang, Cjris Capuano etc.

Can see someone giving Marcum a 2 year deal tops. I'm guessing he's asking for a lot considering guys like McCarthy, who also has questions about health over the years, are getting signed. Before they wasted 15 million on Joe Blanton I thought the Angels would have taken a flier on him.


Well, EJax may have better stuff, but the better production comes from Marcum (better ERA, WHIP and career record), who before last season was quite durable and very consistent. If all he wants are 2 years? Hell yeah I'll throw my money on him instead of giving Jackson 4 years with 12-13mil....I'd even give Marcum 3 years if it comes with a slight annual discount

Marcum and B.Myers on less $ and years > 50mil+ on Jackson....that's how I would play this, would actually LOVE to see us sign BOTH Marcum and Myers and keep ACab to start the season. Would give us flexibility and good depth almost everywhere to start the season. RF would still be a problem, but the rest would look pretty good. Maybe Hairston as stop gap?

Is Marcum+Myers+Hairston even realistic budget wise? Any idea or reports what these guys are looking for per year? I would prefer this package over a big signing like Swish or Jackson + some smaller signings...and we'd keep our 2nd rounder too and have a larger budget there

What do you guys think?


A healthy Marcum has been better than EJax but he hasn't been healthy all that much. Wouldn't call him that consistent before this year either as to me you need more than two years to be consistent. He is also definitely not durable as only one season ever with 200 innings.

Honestly would be hesitant to give Marcum even 2 guaranteed years. Just too big a risk health-wise. There's a reason he hasn't signed and you haven't heard a lot and it's his health/durability. Jackson definitely has his flaws but can eat innings and is typicall average to above average overall. He is a bit like Westbrook for me, good #3. We gave Westbrook $33M and Jackson isn't even 30 yet (two years younger than Marcum by the way). I do think $52M is a bit too high, but $12M a year for 4 years wouldn't have been that crazy IMO.

I also liked that Jackson has had success in the AL Central. Pitched well in 2009 with the Tigers and both 2010 and 2011 with the White Sox. Marcum obviously had some success in the AL East which is a tougher division but still like the familiarity factor with Jackson.


I just don't see why we'd really need to sign both Marcum and Myers unless you think we are gonna deal Masterson. Masterson, Ubaldo, and McAllister plus Carraasco, Bauer, Huff and Kluber. Definitely would like another starter but 2 seems overkill at this point to me. I know you could move Myers to the pen but don't see why we'd spend money on another RH reliever. I know Ubaldo was terrible but is at least a BOR inning eater, which is what Myers likely would be IMO.

Wouldn't be opposed to getting one of Marcum/Myers though. Even though I like Jackson more, do think Marcum would be a good grab on a 1year deal similar to what we gave Milwood. Maybe include an option (vesting or otherwise). And if the Tribe moved Perez....you could actually afford both Swisher and Marcum...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:21 pm

Who would the Tribe be better suited signing Nick Swisher or Edwin Jackson?

Personally, I'm of the opinion that a team should build upon pitching first and foremost. That said I also believe the team needs the anchor for the lineup or starting staff too. Swisher would be the anchor for the lineup, Jackson on the other hand is it an Ace by any measure. He could be a good 2 for the Tribe though and could provide a long term durable arm. When it comes to pitching you just never know when or if an injury could occur - its simply they are more likely to be injured, IMO. Nick Swisher would provide a recognizable name for many fans who has been productive throughout the yrs. On the other hand Edwin Jackson takes the hill every start and will offer a solid performance through the yr.

Who's more valuable for this team? Swisher would provide the name recognition with fans and a solid RF / 1b / DH option too. Jackson would slot into the 2nd spot if the rotation and add qlty innings to the pitching staff. For me the added cost to Swisher is the loss of a 2nd rd draft pk and the slot money that goes with it. For a team that does not appear on the verge of contending for the AL Crown it's simply not worth it.

Jackson does not come with the added cost and that's the deal breaker for me with Swisher. Swisher signing would go a long way into changing the local and natl fan / media / agent perspective of the Tribe and that's tremendous but is he worth the added cost? I'm not sure, and personally I prefer to see the Tribe to build the SP first and then deal from that. All of this said I like both guys and won't hate to see the Tribe land Swisher if it were to occur.

IF the Tribe were to invest more than $50 M over 4 yrs that changes things to me a bit. IF Jackson were younger (he's only 29) I'd probably be more up for it. However signing a guy who's not a true ace for more than $50 M over 4 yrs could hurt this team if he's injured. Swisher on the other hand is a guy who has been durable but at the same time is a bit older (he's 32) but would offer positional flexibility. IF / when Swisher's defense started to fall off he could be moved to LF, 1b, DH on a regular basis. When it comes down to it IF the Tribe goes over $50 M, perhaps $60 M to land a FA I'd prefer it be a positional player which would seemingly offer the club a safer investment.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:33 pm

Just a thought but if the Tribe fielded a team today I dont think we'd be as bad off as we think. Here's what I'm thinking...
I know there's a hole in RF it's simple to just shift things around though. Btw, Mike Aviles is a valuable addition to this club bc of his positional flexibility, here's a look at what the lineup could look like.

1b Reynolds
2b Kipnis
3b Chisenhall
SS ACab
CF / RF Stubbs
LF / CF Brantley
LF / RF Aviles
DH McGuiness / Gomes
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:49 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Who would the Tribe be better suited signing Nick Swisher or Edwin Jackson?

Personally, I'm of the opinion that a team should build upon pitching first and foremost. That said I also believe the team needs the anchor for the lineup or starting staff too. Swisher would be the anchor for the lineup, Jackson on the other hand is it an Ace by any measure. He could be a good 2 for the Tribe though and could provide a long term durable arm. When it comes to pitching you just never know when or if an injury could occur - its simply they are more likely to be injured, IMO. Nick Swisher would provide a recognizable name for many fans who has been productive throughout the yrs. On the other hand Edwin Jackson takes the hill every start and will offer a solid performance through the yr.

Who's more valuable for this team? Swisher would provide the name recognition with fans and a solid RF / 1b / DH option too. Jackson would slot into the 2nd spot if the rotation and add qlty innings to the pitching staff. For me the added cost to Swisher is the loss of a 2nd rd draft pk and the slot money that goes with it. For a team that does not appear on the verge of contending for the AL Crown it's simply not worth it.

Jackson does not come with the added cost and that's the deal breaker for me with Swisher. Swisher signing would go a long way into changing the local and natl fan / media / agent perspective of the Tribe and that's tremendous but is he worth the added cost? I'm not sure, and personally I prefer to see the Tribe to build the SP first and then deal from that. All of this said I like both guys and won't hate to see the Tribe land Swisher if it were to occur.

IF the Tribe were to invest more than $50 M over 4 yrs that changes things to me a bit. IF Jackson were younger (he's only 29) I'd probably be more up for it. However signing a guy who's not a true ace for more than $50 M over 4 yrs could hurt this team if he's injured. Swisher on the other hand is a guy who has been durable but at the same time is a bit older (he's 32) but would offer positional flexibility. IF / when Swisher's defense started to fall off he could be moved to LF, 1b, DH on a regular basis. When it comes down to it IF the Tribe goes over $50 M, perhaps $60 M to land a FA I'd prefer it be a positional player which would seemingly offer the club a safer investment.


While I agree 100% that you need to build pitching and win with that....you don't have to build the pitching thru free agency. Look at the Rays for example. They just signed Fausto and he's the first free agent SP they've signed in years. They have built from within but also thru trades for guys like Garza and EJax in the past and now Archer and Odrizzi. Rays haven't gotten a guy like Swisher in free agency but have gone out and spend on guys like Carlos Pena, Luke Scott, Damon, etc.

Also think 4 years for a position player is more reasonable than 4 years for a SP. Tribe (like a few teams) seem to have a 4 year ceiling for SPs. Not sure the Tribe has ever offered a free agent SP more guaranteed years. Realize we are 'only' offering EJax 4 years but makes you wonder if he's really worth a 'max deal' of sorts with the Tribe. Also think there's a better chance of EJax missing a year with TJ than of Swisher missing a year with an injury (though definitely possible, never know in sports). I think Jackson would be a great add and we absolutely need SP....but think when you look at the two deals for Swisher and Jackson...Swisher makes more sense at that money/years. At least IMO. Really, really like Jackson though (still upset we didn't go after him last winter).
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:51 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Just a thought but if the Tribe fielded a team today I dont think we'd be as bad off as we think. Here's what I'm thinking...
I know there's a hole in RF it's simple to just shift things around though. Btw, Mike Aviles is a valuable addition to this club bc of his positional flexibility, here's a look at what the lineup could look like.

1b Reynolds
2b Kipnis
3b Chisenhall
SS ACab
CF / RF Stubbs
LF / CF Brantley
LF / RF Aviles
DH McGuiness / Gomes


Yes Aviles can play OF in a pinch. So could Jamie Carroll but the Indians didn't pick him up to play OF. Aviles will be useful because he can backup the entire infield or play nearly everyday if need be. It's a waste throwing him in the OF unless you're late in extra innings and thin off the bench or rash of injuries.

Fact is the Indians NEED to find a right fielder. Sure Nick Swisher woud be fantastic fit for now, long term maybe not. They're too thin in the OF even with Fedroff, Carerra, Neal on the 40. Role players, 4th OF, maybe platoon players at their peaks.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:37 pm

I'm curious if the Tribe misses out on Swisher and Jackson in FA if they will turn their effort toward Michael Bourn who I've mentioned several times as a possibility based on previous interest. They could simply look to make more incremental improvements rather than a larger FA splash of sorts, another route they could go could simply be to land a qlty bat / SP or two thereby potentially increasing the payroll through a variety of trades. Not that payroll increase is the effort, rather they would be flexible in adding pieces.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:45 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:I'm curious if the Tribe misses out on Swisher and Jackson in FA if they will turn their effort toward Michael Bourn who I've mentioned several times as a possibility based on previous interest. They could simply look to make more incremental improvements rather than a larger FA splash of sorts, another route they could go could simply be to land a qlty bat / SP or two thereby potentially increasing the payroll through a variety of trades. Not that payroll increase is the effort, rather they would be flexible in adding pieces.


It's not if they miss...

The means to achieve a competitive team is via trades. Adding a spare part like Mark Reynolds can impact a club positively toward contention when the rest of the club is ready and competitive. When it's not, guys like Mark Reynolds are cute pieces that bring prospects at the trading deadline if they have a reasonable start to their season.. no more no less..

Drew Stubb, if he was a FA acquisition, would be about the same kind of 'addition".. a one year, make good type deal with a possible club option/vesting option/incentive to vesting as part of any deal that goes beyond a single season. Stubbs can be a traded at the deadline as well, but, would demand a better return depending on how he performs...

A posting/rumor that doesn't have at its core a trade, is going to be more of the same.. interesting but not viable...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:45 pm

Here's a link to the most recent article on the St. Louis Cards need for a SS.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball ... 31ab5.html

I've run this is the ground but its something I think is more than realistic, that is the Tribe and Cardinals coming together in a trade for ACab. Btw, there's a phrase I think is important in this article to paraphrase "the Indians demand for 3 ML ready SP prospects WAS unpalatable".
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:07 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Here's a link to the most recent article on the St. Louis Cards need for a SS.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball ... 31ab5.html

I've run this is the ground but its something I think is more than realistic, that is the Tribe and Cardinals coming together in a trade for ACab. Btw, there's a phrase I think is important in this article to paraphrase "the Indians demand for 3 ML ready SP prospects WAS unpalatable".


I read this earlier. It does not say anything about demanding 3 ml ready starting pitching prospects.

It says
The price of three pitchers (prospects, big-league ready) was not palatable


It's quite a difference.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:08 pm

@KBurkhardtSNY: Heard the #Mets are very interested in Grady Sizemore. He's coming off microfracture surgery, but I would def take a shot w him
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:11 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Here's a link to the most recent article on the St. Louis Cards need for a SS.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball ... 31ab5.html

I've run this is the ground but its something I think is more than realistic, that is the Tribe and Cardinals coming together in a trade for ACab. Btw, there's a phrase I think is important in this article to paraphrase "the Indians demand for 3 ML ready SP prospects WAS unpalatable".


I am not sure if you are indicating the ship has sailed.. never to return.. or that the Cardinals were giving consideration to a deal and may revisit.. or this is further evidence that there was a comment/written statement by someone from St Louis indicating a deal had been discussed..

maybe all three?..
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:25 pm

@CSNMooney: #Cubs have signed Edwin Jackson (four years, $52 million) and Carlos Villanueva, pending physicals.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:30 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:@CSNMooney: #Cubs have signed Edwin Jackson (four years, $52 million) and Carlos Villanueva, pending physicals.

Two solid signings, imho, for middle of the road/ MOR type SP's... about $ 18 MM / year for the pair.. should be decent adds to the Cubs woeful pitching staff...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:35 pm

GoTribe,

I don't get it...

So which part did you disagree with, was it the fact I said demand instead of price? It's the same IMO, when it comes to negotiations. Btw, I said I was paraphrasing.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:39 pm

G'Son,

My point was simple, there WAS some trade chatter between the clubs regarding SP. Neither team has really made a move that would prevent them from revisiting these discussions.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:47 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:GoTribe,

I don't get it...

So which part did you disagree with, was it the fact I said demand instead of price? It's the same IMO, when it comes to negotiations. Btw, I said I was paraphrasing.


No, you said the article claimed the Indians are demanding 3 major league ready starting pitchers, it only says pitchers. Choo brought in 3 pitchers, only 1 with any real potential to be a difference maker. If the Indians were stupid enough to demand "3 ml ready starting pitchers" they would be getting back Mitch Talbot, David Huff, and Jeanmar Gomez.

Hell Victor Martinez didn't bring in 3 ML ready starters. And it's still debated by some if the 1 starter they did get shouldn't be in the pen cause of the awful splits vs lefties.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:12 pm

Heres the link again...

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball ... 31ab5.html

"As the Cardinals gather intel and prepare for their potential/eventual search for a starter at shortstop, two places to are the free agents hitting the open market next winter (i.e., Drew) and the shortstops who could be available via trade in the middle of this season. The asking price for, say, Cabrera, is high now (YOUNG PITCHING, BIG-LEAGUE READY STARTER), but how does the Cleveland Indians’ position change by July? Does it? Here is a look at the shortstops who could be free agents next winter and the shortstops who are bound to bubble-up as trade options (some already have!) as the non-waiver deadline approaches this coming season. They are listed in no particular order …"

"The price of THREE PITCHERS (prospects, big-league ready) was not palatable to the Cardinals because the return was only two years of Cabrera."

GoTribe, I capitalized the parts I read when I said, "3 big league ready starters", you're right it doesn't say it that way. That's the way I read it and paraphrased it. I apologize for the confusion.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:50 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
dazindiansfanuk wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:The signing of Nick Swisher, the pomp and ceremonies at Progressive Field, the score board, the dignitaries, yada yada all seem to be well thought out, yet, he still got on that plane and left town. Perhaps the Indians should seriously take a look at


He was getting on that plane regardless of what the Indians did.

That doesn't mean he is or isn't signing with the Tribe..... he was just never going to cut his trip short without seeing ALL the offers out there.

I guess if you find the woman of your dreams, you leave her there and get on the plane in pursuit of what you've just left...


If the woman of your dreams is happy to wait until you come back whilst you go in search of something better..... then yeah.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:20 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:Hell Victor Martinez didn't bring in 3 ML ready starters. And it's still debated by some if the 1 starter they did get shouldn't be in the pen cause of the awful splits vs lefties.


Wait, what? Are you suggesting there are still people that think Masterson belongs in the pen?
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:46 am

Hermie13 wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:Hell Victor Martinez didn't bring in 3 ML ready starters. And it's still debated by some if the 1 starter they did get shouldn't be in the pen cause of the awful splits vs lefties.


Wait, what? Are you suggesting there are still people that think Masterson belongs in the pen?


Yes I am. I am NOT one of them.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:58 am

Hermie13 wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:Hell Victor Martinez didn't bring in 3 ML ready starters. And it's still debated by some if the 1 starter they did get shouldn't be in the pen cause of the awful splits vs lefties.


Wait, what? Are you suggesting there are still people that think Masterson belongs in the pen?


Hermie.. there would be no surprise with having a few die hards who believe Masterson is better suited to the BP. I would actually think that if Masterson somehow (not going to happen) ended up with the Nationals, Justin would be their best choice for either long reliever or in the back of the pen at some point.

W/ the Indians.. he'd only be a starter, so 028 is correct, yes there are people who still believe Masterson would best be utilized as a bullpen guy.. The Indians would JUST HAVE TO HAVE A BETTER SP STAFF TO MAKE THIS DREAM COME TRUE !!...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Tondo » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:38 am

I'm happy the Tribe didn't give Jackson 52mil.

Still hoping for (at least) 1 of Marcum/Myers (in that order) + Hairston

Plan C would be Oswalt, Millwood, C.Young + M.Diaz
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:51 am

Tondo wrote:I'm happy the Tribe didn't give Jackson 52mil.

Still hoping for (at least) 1 of Marcum/Myers (in that order) + Hairston

Plan C would be Oswalt, Millwood, C.Young + M.Diaz


Grant Bisbee wrote this for SB Nation:
...Now the Cubs have signed Edwin Jackson to a four year, $52 million deal. The Cubs have a great chance to make progress on their second-to-last-place finish from last year. Now they can have a clear shot at last because the Astros are in the American League now. Progress! And it's time to point and laugh at the Cubs because they're throwing money down a hole for a pitcher who isn't going to be around for the next good Cubs team...


So, your sentiments regarding giving EdLOSE Jackson $ 52 MM is echoed in other spots.. As far as the remaining FA's, it might be best to hope for a trade to materialize.. one that involves the Rays, Mariners, or Cardinals...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:14 pm

A little tidbit regarding the Mariners that might be of interest in our wigwam...

..The move of Vargas to Anaheim in exchange for Morales gives the club about $3 million more in available money to spend on a free agent target or two. Seattle could choose to spend most of their remaining money on a big-name player like outfielder Nick Swisher, but then they would be left with almost no funds to sign the starting pitcher they need.... Seattle could also look to trade someone like Justin Smoak for the pieces they need, especially now that they have a bit of a logjam at first base/designated hitter.
(link: http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2012/12/21/ ... r-pitching by Nathan Aderhold

A trade that has Justin Smoak coming back would be interesting he's a switch hitter and a guy who, for lack of another way to describe, has been beaten up by Safeco Field. There is a mention of funds as an issue, so, a revenue neutral trade would be beneficial, or, the Indians might want to take on a contract that helps the M's. Wouldn't the OF look a LOT better if, instead of LF Tim Fedroff/Thomas Neal, CF Michael Brantley & RF Drew Stubbs, the Indians would have Franklin Gutierrez in RF, Drew Stubbs in CF and Michael Brantley in LF? Of course, any trade with the M's has to include at least one SP prospect like Brandon Maurer..An exchange of mid-top-ten prospects might also appeal to the teams:

Mariners get Justin Masterson, one of Matt Albers, Frank Herrmann or Joe Smith, and Luigi Rodriguez
Indians get Franklin Gutierrez, Justin Smoak and Brandon Maurer

..thoughts?
Last edited by GeronimoSon on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:16 pm

Quick notes this morning

Rich Harden to Twinkies on a minor league deal (I'd like to see Kazmir to the Indians this way)

Francisco Liriano to the Pirates 2 years 14-15 million.

Braves reportedly interested in Scott Hairston

Mets interested in Grady Sizemore

And Nick Swisher still waiting on a team to rescue his offseason.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:18 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:A little tidbit regarding the Mariners that might be of interest in our wigwam...

..The move of Vargas to Anaheim in exchange for Morales gives the club about $3 million more in available money to spend on a free agent target or two. Seattle could choose to spend most of their remaining money on a big-name player like outfielder Nick Swisher, but then they would be left with almost no funds to sign the starting pitcher they need.... Seattle could also look to trade someone like Justin Smoak for the pieces they need, especially now that they have a bit of a logjam at first base/designated hitter.


A trade that has Justin Smoak coming back would be interesting he's a switch hitter and a guy who, for lack of another way to describe, has been beaten up by Safeco Field. There is a mention of funds as an issue, so, a revenue neutral trade would be beneficial, or, the Indians might want to take on a contract that helps the M's. Wouldn't the OF look a LOT better if, instead of LF Tim Fedroff/Thomas Neal, CF Michael Brantley & RF Drew Stubbs, the Indians would have Franklin Gutierrez in RF, Drew Stubbs in CF and Michael Brantley in LF? Of course, any trade with the M's has to include at least one SP prospect like Brandon Maurer..An exchange of mid-top-ten prospects might also appeal to the teams:

Mariners get Justin Masterson, one of Matt Albers, Frank Herrmann or Joe Smith, and Luigi Rodriguez
Indians get Franklin Gutierrez, Justin Smoak and Brandon Maurer

..thoughts?


Not completely out of the question...don't know how "available" he is so to speak. Depending on the cost sure he's worth a gamble but I don't want the Indians to deal Masterson quite yet.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby criznit2009 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:21 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:A little tidbit regarding the Mariners that might be of interest in our wigwam...

..The move of Vargas to Anaheim in exchange for Morales gives the club about $3 million more in available money to spend on a free agent target or two. Seattle could choose to spend most of their remaining money on a big-name player like outfielder Nick Swisher, but then they would be left with almost no funds to sign the starting pitcher they need.... Seattle could also look to trade someone like Justin Smoak for the pieces they need, especially now that they have a bit of a logjam at first base/designated hitter.


A trade that has Justin Smoak coming back would be interesting he's a switch hitter and a guy who, for lack of another way to describe, has been beaten up by Safeco Field. There is a mention of funds as an issue, so, a revenue neutral trade would be beneficial, or, the Indians might want to take on a contract that helps the M's. Wouldn't the OF look a LOT better if, instead of LF Tim Fedroff/Thomas Neal, CF Michael Brantley & RF Drew Stubbs, the Indians would have Franklin Gutierrez in RF, Drew Stubbs in CF and Michael Brantley in LF? Of course, any trade with the M's has to include at least one SP prospect like Brandon Maurer..An exchange of mid-top-ten prospects might also appeal to the teams:

Mariners get Justin Masterson, one of Matt Albers, Frank Herrmann or Joe Smith, and Luigi Rodriguez
Indians get Franklin Gutierrez, Justin Smoak and Brandon Maurer

..thoughts?


Well G'son I think this stinks. I am not convinced Smoak isnt just Matt LaPorta ver 2.0 or even worse possibly. Also I have serious reservations that Gutierrez is anything more than a 4th OF from an offensive stand point now days. Plus "selling low" on Masterson to boot... Pass.... And then pass me the bong, I like how that stinks!
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:53 pm

criznit2009 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:A little tidbit regarding the Mariners that might be of interest in our wigwam...

..The move of Vargas to Anaheim in exchange for Morales gives the club about $3 million more in available money to spend on a free agent target or two. Seattle could choose to spend most of their remaining money on a big-name player like outfielder Nick Swisher, but then they would be left with almost no funds to sign the starting pitcher they need.... Seattle could also look to trade someone like Justin Smoak for the pieces they need, especially now that they have a bit of a logjam at first base/designated hitter.


A trade that has Justin Smoak coming back would be interesting he's a switch hitter and a guy who, for lack of another way to describe, has been beaten up by Safeco Field. There is a mention of funds as an issue, so, a revenue neutral trade would be beneficial, or, the Indians might want to take on a contract that helps the M's. Wouldn't the OF look a LOT better if, instead of LF Tim Fedroff/Thomas Neal, CF Michael Brantley & RF Drew Stubbs, the Indians would have Franklin Gutierrez in RF, Drew Stubbs in CF and Michael Brantley in LF? Of course, any trade with the M's has to include at least one SP prospect like Brandon Maurer..An exchange of mid-top-ten prospects might also appeal to the teams:

Mariners get Justin Masterson, one of Matt Albers, Frank Herrmann or Joe Smith, and Luigi Rodriguez
Indians get Franklin Gutierrez, Justin Smoak and Brandon Maurer

..thoughts?


Well G'son I think this stinks. I am not convinced Smoak isnt just Matt LaPorta ver 2.0 or even worse possibly. Also I have serious reservations that Gutierrez is anything more than a 4th OF from an offensive stand point now days. Plus "selling low" on Masterson to boot... Pass.... And then pass me the bong, I like how that stinks!


Thanks for the constructive and insightful response.. I'm going to write that one down..you just can't find profundity like that just anywhere..... You have to LOOK FOR IT !!

You can't really say if it's the M's selling low of if it's the Indians. Gutierrez has had a tough time of it in Seattle with the injuries, but, he's not a fourth OF'er.. not by a long shot.. Smoak has proven, at least when he's faced the Indians that he is clueless when he gets two strikes.. but there was something there at the end of the 2012 season that sparked my interest as he only batted from one side..and went the other way, with power and contact. It was a beautiful thing. BTW, Brandon Maurer is no slouch, so getting another SP candidate wouldn't hurt the Indians.. If it mattered to you (apparently it does), switching out Maurer for James Paxton might also be possible...

As far as your bong is concerned, move to Washington or Colorado, you won't be bothered by those who don't like that and don't want you do it..
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby criznit2009 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:33 pm

I live in Washington :) - right over the bridge from portland!
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:35 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
criznit2009 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:A little tidbit regarding the Mariners that might be of interest in our wigwam...

..The move of Vargas to Anaheim in exchange for Morales gives the club about $3 million more in available money to spend on a free agent target or two. Seattle could choose to spend most of their remaining money on a big-name player like outfielder Nick Swisher, but then they would be left with almost no funds to sign the starting pitcher they need.... Seattle could also look to trade someone like Justin Smoak for the pieces they need, especially now that they have a bit of a logjam at first base/designated hitter.


A trade that has Justin Smoak coming back would be interesting he's a switch hitter and a guy who, for lack of another way to describe, has been beaten up by Safeco Field. There is a mention of funds as an issue, so, a revenue neutral trade would be beneficial, or, the Indians might want to take on a contract that helps the M's. Wouldn't the OF look a LOT better if, instead of LF Tim Fedroff/Thomas Neal, CF Michael Brantley & RF Drew Stubbs, the Indians would have Franklin Gutierrez in RF, Drew Stubbs in CF and Michael Brantley in LF? Of course, any trade with the M's has to include at least one SP prospect like Brandon Maurer..An exchange of mid-top-ten prospects might also appeal to the teams:

Mariners get Justin Masterson, one of Matt Albers, Frank Herrmann or Joe Smith, and Luigi Rodriguez
Indians get Franklin Gutierrez, Justin Smoak and Brandon Maurer

..thoughts?


Well G'son I think this stinks. I am not convinced Smoak isnt just Matt LaPorta ver 2.0 or even worse possibly. Also I have serious reservations that Gutierrez is anything more than a 4th OF from an offensive stand point now days. Plus "selling low" on Masterson to boot... Pass.... And then pass me the bong, I like how that stinks!


Thanks for the constructive and insightful response.. I'm going to write that one down..you just can't find profundity like that just anywhere..... You have to LOOK FOR IT !!

You can't really say if it's the M's selling low of if it's the Indians. Gutierrez has had a tough time of it in Seattle with the injuries, but, he's not a fourth OF'er.. not by a long shot.. Smoak has proven, at least when he's faced the Indians that he is clueless when he gets two strikes.. but there was something there at the end of the 2012 season that sparked my interest as he only batted from one side..and went the other way, with power and contact. It was a beautiful thing. BTW, Brandon Maurer is no slouch, so getting another SP candidate wouldn't hurt the Indians.. If it mattered to you (apparently it does), switching out Maurer for James Paxton might also be possible...

As far as your bong is concerned, move to Washington or Colorado, you won't be bothered by those who don't like that and don't want you do it..


I'm sort of with criznit on Gutierrez. I think 4th outfielder may be a bit low but he's not a guy I want starting in RF, at least not everyday. Wouldn't be a bad platoon guy as he can hit lefties at times but he is a guy that actually hit better at Safeco than on the road. His bat plays in CF thanks to his defense but we have a guy like that already in Stubbs. Could put one of them in RF easily but there are much better options IMO than resorting to that.

Not a fan of Smoak at all though he did have his moments. Admit I just never liked him even when he was with Texas. His home/road splits do suggest he'd hit better away from Safeco, but didn't put up good numbers on the road. I'd offer up Huff and maybe a low end C spec but not much more.

The Tribe is selling way low on Masterson in your deal. Smoak has really struggled and can't have much value if any. Same with Gutierrez who has been hurt/bad for 3 years now offensively. I wouldn't trade trade Masterson alone for the 3 guys mentioned originally.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby OhioBaseball » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:39 pm

I don't think Swisher puts the Indians into contention in 2013. If the Indians are playing for 2014 or whenever, who knows if Swisher will be as effective of a player in coming years at ages 33+. I understand why the Indians want him, but if they do have more money to play with, perhaps the money is better utilized by trading Asdrubal Cabrera, Chris Perez, and/or Justin Masterson and eating a portion of any players' respective salary to get better prospects if the option is there.

The Indians aren't a contending team in 2013. Long way from it. Spending 12mm on Swisher for a mediocre team next year seems wasteful. I'd like to see the Indians try to get more creative with this money. I'm shocked at how many people believe that the Indians should be playing in the free agent market. The odds are heavily stacked against the Indians from building a competitive team in this manner. It's short-sighted.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:42 pm

@DKnobler: Next for Rangers: Talking to Cody Ross, but also checking into Michael Bourn, @JonHeymanCBS reports. http://t.co/hM6ZsGX


Indians need to make a decision soon. Either keep waiting on Swisher or make a serious play for someone else either in a deal for FA.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:50 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:I don't think Swisher puts the Indians into contention in 2013. If the Indians are playing for 2014 or whenever, who knows if Swisher will be as effective of a player in coming years at ages 33+. I understand why the Indians want him, but if they do have more money to play with, perhaps the money is better utilized by trading Asdrubal Cabrera, Chris Perez, and/or Justin Masterson and eating a portion of any players' respective salary to get better prospects if the option is there.

The Indians aren't a contending team in 2013. Long way from it. Spending 12mm on Swisher for a mediocre team next year seems wasteful. I'd like to see the Indians try to get more creative with this money. I'm shocked at how many people believe that the Indians should be playing in the free agent market. The odds are heavily stacked against the Indians from building a competitive team in this manner. It's short-sighted.


I dont think many people are suggesting you build the team thru free agency, but you do need to at least play in the market if you're the Tribe. A's spent money on Cespedes, Crisp, Gomes, etc last year as free agents and it paid off. I think the Tribe could afford to take a risk on a guy like Swisher who's main skill set should age pretty well (OBP). He also can move to 1B and eventually DH as needed. Not a 1B or worse a DH only guy that ages badly (ie, Hafner). Do think trades and building the system should be the main focus of the Tribe but hard to win without spending some in free agency. Even the Rays spent $10M+ on free agents last year.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby OhioBaseball » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:22 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:I don't think Swisher puts the Indians into contention in 2013. If the Indians are playing for 2014 or whenever, who knows if Swisher will be as effective of a player in coming years at ages 33+. I understand why the Indians want him, but if they do have more money to play with, perhaps the money is better utilized by trading Asdrubal Cabrera, Chris Perez, and/or Justin Masterson and eating a portion of any players' respective salary to get better prospects if the option is there.

The Indians aren't a contending team in 2013. Long way from it. Spending 12mm on Swisher for a mediocre team next year seems wasteful. I'd like to see the Indians try to get more creative with this money. I'm shocked at how many people believe that the Indians should be playing in the free agent market. The odds are heavily stacked against the Indians from building a competitive team in this manner. It's short-sighted.


I dont think many people are suggesting you build the team thru free agency, but you do need to at least play in the market if you're the Tribe. A's spent money on Cespedes, Crisp, Gomes, etc last year as free agents and it paid off. I think the Tribe could afford to take a risk on a guy like Swisher who's main skill set should age pretty well (OBP). He also can move to 1B and eventually DH as needed. Not a 1B or worse a DH only guy that ages badly (ie, Hafner). Do think trades and building the system should be the main focus of the Tribe but hard to win without spending some in free agency. Even the Rays spent $10M+ on free agents last year.


The A's 2012 season was a low probability event. There's more examples of mediocre-to-average teams signing free agents that don't make the playoffs (or close to it) than teams like the 2012 Oakland A's. The Indians also imitated the Oakland A's with the Moneyball stuff many years ago; they drafted countless of bad, low ceiling college players in early rounds which left the organization in the state that its in now. So, this "Let's try to be the Oakland A's" thing hasn't worked out for the Cleveland Indians.

I think Swisher is a good player that fills a gaping hole in this line-up, but I worry he'll regress into a 1b in coming years. If he turns into a .240/.330/.450 1b in 2014 and beyond, that's no bueno. Frankly, he's not far from those numbers right now. The Indians don't need this guy.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:54 pm

FWIW

@JimBowdenESPNxm: Michael Bourn's market includes: Sea, Cleve, Mia, Phil, NYM, TX
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby BrianM » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:03 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:So, this "Let's try to be the Oakland A's" thing hasn't worked out for the Cleveland Indians.


I agree. I want us to be like the A's, but there is only one Billy Beane. The TB Rays benefited from having so many top 5 picks and comp picks, but I would just try to replicate their strategy...BPA...always. I didnt and still dont know alot about Lucas Gioloto, but he was BPA, and we probably should have drafted him. He ended up number 2 on BA's top 10 for the Nationals. It will be more difficult with the new CBA, but I would not have a problem with only signing 4 or 5 top 10 round picks if they were all incredibly high upside guys.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:55 pm

Blue Jays claimed Russ Canzler
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