Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

by **GeronimoSon** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:12 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:There's a lot of talk about Carlos Villanueva wanting to be a starting pitcher. Villanueva hasn't convinced me he can be a long term starter but I'd go out and make an offer of $5-$6 mil on a one yr deal. I think Villanueva could be a better option than Jimenez or Hernandez who I've been a fan of for yrs but I'm ready to see the Tribe move on from Hernandez and Jimenez. I'd also try to land a guy like Erik Bedard for $1-$2 mil on a minor league deal and to add a little insurance in case Barnes struggles in moving back to the rotation.

+1 (excludes the Bedard comment which would be the pitching equivalent of signing Casey Kotchman)

This suggestion is clearly thinking outside the box.. this guy has been in and out of the starting rotation for about three years.. It was only this season that he was finally able to put his considerable talent together for any length of time as a starter.. and what a starting pitcher he became..

If the Indians can sign him (he's a FA), do it.. if it takes a 2 or 3 or 4 year commitment, do it.. He has the potential or would be better than just about every SP the Indians currently have on the roster..

by **GoTribe028** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:44 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
homerawayfromhome wrote:There's a lot of talk about Carlos Villanueva wanting to be a starting pitcher. Villanueva hasn't convinced me he can be a long term starter but I'd go out and make an offer of $5-$6 mil on a one yr deal. I think Villanueva could be a better option than Jimenez or Hernandez who I've been a fan of for yrs but I'm ready to see the Tribe move on from Hernandez and Jimenez. I'd also try to land a guy like Erik Bedard for $1-$2 mil on a minor league deal and to add a little insurance in case Barnes struggles in moving back to the rotation.

+1 (excludes the Bedard comment which would be the pitching equivalent of signing Casey Kotchman)

This suggestion is clearly thinking outside the box.. this guy has been in and out of the starting rotation for about three years.. It was only this season that he was finally able to put his considerable talent together for any length of time as a starter.. and what a starting pitcher he became..

If the Indians can sign him (he's a FA), do it.. if it takes a 2 or 3 or 4 year commitment, do it.. He has the potential or would be better than just about every SP the Indians currently have on the roster..

I agree he would be an interesting guy to give a shot at being a starter, and perhaps a bit of the outside the box thinking I think this organization needs to do once in a while.

That said, I don't agree that anything over 2 years is worth the risk. If he bombs out then you're paying 3 or more years to a reliever, or a useless trade asset.

Sadly, I think it's more likely that both Jimenez and Carmonandez are brought back than this current FO to suddenly change it's approach. We'll see what happens.

by **homerawayfromhome** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:16 pm

The way I see it Villanueva hasn't pitched at his potential yet. I definately go the vesting option route, something to maintain control and something that protects the Tribe in case of injury. But also gives the player incentive to sign.

Also, note I said I'd try to sign a vet LIKE Bedard on a minor league deal for about $1/$2 mil. There's no guarantee he'd be on the roster but it would offer protection for the roster. A cpl other names I think would at least warrant a look Aaron Cook or Kevin Corriea. More or less until other arms like Salazar and maybe a prospect or two acq. This offseason in trades are ready. The way I see it's a developmental yr why not lose and develop the prospects until they appear ready than dump the vet.

by **timdav** » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:00 pm

The Indians have so many legitimate holes on the big league team....it's difficult to imagine doing anything but a pretty signficant rebuild.

While I'll bet that's the last thing the Dolans would like to do, they may not have much of a choice.

Why not trade Chris Perez and Choo...like many people have said. Might as well keep Asdrubal Cabrera and Justin Masterson...as neither have had great years (keep them, hope their 2013 is much better, then move them too)..unless Masterson seems to be making positive steps, then keep him as a solid #3 or maybe #2).

2013 could be:

C-Santana (he's not been great, but might as well keep him rather than create still another hole)
1b-Canzler
2b-Kipnis
3b-Chisenhall (let him play all of 2013 and see what you have)
ss-Cabrera
lf-VETERAN by trade or FA
cf-Brantley (a solid, if not spectacular major leaguer)
rf-VETERAN by trade or FA
dh-VETERAN by trade or FA (or: Neal?)
utility inf/of-Donald
utility inf-?
utility of-E. Carrera
backup c-Marson
starter-Masterson
starter-Jimenez (unless you could get somebody to take him)
starter-Mc Allister
starter-VETERAN by trade orFA
starter-Huff (?)
new closer-Pestano
bullpen-Allen
bullpen-Rogers
bullpen-Joe Smith
bullpen-Hagadone
bullpen-Maine (?)
longman-Kluber

GONE: Choo, Hafner, Sizemore, La Porta, Hannahan, Kotchman, Lillbridge, Rottino, Phelps, Chris Perez, Raffy Perez, Seddon, Sipp, Hermann (AAA still), Gomez (AAA), Barnes (maybe to AAA?), Tomlin (DL), Car-Hernandez.

So...that's 3 key position players and a veteran starter....minimum. Is it unrealistic to think those 4 could be aquired in trades for Choo & C. Perez and free agency? Probably....but, something to aim for as the "better prospects" develop at Akron, Carolina, and Lake County. I suggested 3 position players and 1 veteran starter not because it wouldn't be great to trade for two great major-league ready starters, but that's usually very, very difficult to do. Easier to get hitters than excellent starters.

Opinions, please...guys? Thanks.

by **homerawayfromhome** » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:09 pm

I would decline the options on both Hernandez and Jimenez and definately trade Choo and CPerez, I'd be open to holding both ACab and Masterson until after AllStar break but move them if I fell in love with the return. I think we should see a big rebuild from the FO down to the field.

I'm in for signing Carlos Villanueva as a starter, 1yr $5/6 mil with a vesting option yr with incentives and $500k buyout.
I also would move aggressively on a cpl guys returning from injury like Scott Baker, and Ryan Madson. I'd insure their contracts, give them 1yr $4/5 mil guaranteed with incentives and I'd throw a vesting option yr out there for Baker. Call me crazy but I'd even throw out a 1 yr deal offer for $5/6 mil with $3/4 mil in incentives to Melky Cabrera.

I don't see these guys as long term solutions but I think it would be a creative way to add outside talent, and then flip them in deals (to add more talent) after the AS Brk.

by **ironmike** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:20 am

With a pitching staff like we have currently you don't move either Jimenez or Masterson, that is the old Cleveland Indians way of losing.

Both have good stuff, had bad years on a very poor offensive team. They can and will bounce back.

Seen all of this before. We move them to good teams, they get feeling good again, buy into the winning ways and they get back on track. Fix the losing environment in Cleveland by adding impact players from decisons made by good baseball executives and watch how well these guys pitch.

by **adaree** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:00 pm

I can understand thinking Masterson can bounce back. His peripherals are significantly better than his ERA....but again, what makes you so sure Ubaldo "can and will bounce back?" You can't just say "Pitcher XYZ had a bad year and then bounced back so Ubaldo will too.." What ABOUT UBALDO'S GAME suggests to you that he's going to turn things around next year and be worth the 6 million dollars we'll have to pay him if we keep him?

by **homerawayfromhome** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:20 pm

I've seen no reason to think Jimenez will pitch to his ability. The only reason I'd consider bringing him back is simply to log innings and I think there are better options Villanueva being one of them for the same cost.

As for Masterson, I don't think he will resign past 2014. I would deal him now bc he has 2 full yrs of control. But if he comes out and pitches more of the same next yr then he disminishes his value. I'd be willing to make the gamble bc I'm not willing to give him away, but if they can get the type of return that the A's did on Gonzalez and the Padres did for Latos I'd move him. Look 2 yrs of control for Masterson won't matter if they rebuild this team. I know someone has to log innings but it would be pointless if they go tear down.

If they don't (and I kind of don't think they will) tear it down, then keep him and see what the team does. Its a matter of fact IMO both Choo and Perez will be gone but they don't have to trade ACab or Masterson and frankly, neither has been overly impressive anyways but both are key components through 2014 or they both get dealt by the trade deadline which I think is more reasonable than a complete melt down, but I say maximize their value and deal them all now at the end of the season instead of risking losing more value.

by **homerawayfromhome** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:54 pm

For purpose sake lets look into the offseason and say...
The Tribe pickups Jimenez option, declines Hafners option and Hernandez. They also decline to offer Arb. to Slowey, LaPorta, and RPerez making them FA and they let Kotchman, Hannahan and Sizemore walk. There is possibility they may move Joe Smith bc he is in is 3rd yr of arb. And will be a FA after 2013 but they may want to hang onto him until the trade deadline or try to resign / extend him. It's more than likely that both Choo and CPerez will be traded and it is possible that both ACab and Masterson are floated on the trade block as well. Also, I think the Tribe may look into moving Lou Marson although it would have to bring back a starting pitcher to do so.
Here's a cpl moves I'm just throwing out there to rebuild the roster...
Sign Carlos Villanueva 1yr / $5 mil plus incentives and a vesting option.
Sign Scott Hairston 2yr / $6 mil
Sign Francisco Liriano 3yr /$27 mil and a vesting option.
Sign Ryan Madson 1 yr /$5 mil plus incentives up to $4 mil
Sign Melky Cabrera 1 yr / $6 mil plus incentives up to $4 mil
Sign Jeremy Guthrie 2 yr / $16 mil plus a vesting option
Sign Scott Baker 1 yr / $6 mil plus incentives up to $3 mil and a vesting option
Sign Anibal Sanchez 3 yr / $33 mil plus a vesting option
Sign Nick Swisher 3 yr / $39 mil with a vesting option
Sign Michael Bourn 3 yr / $36 mil with vesting options
Sign BJ Upton for 3 yr / $27 mil with a vesting option
Sign Mike Napoli 3 yr / $30 mil with a vesting option

Obviously, some of these deals aren't going to take place but the Tribe could be players for some talent if they handle this judicially.

by **criznit2009** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:39 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:For purpose sake lets look into the offseason and say...
The Tribe pickups Jimenez option, declines Hafners option and Hernandez. They also decline to offer Arb. to Slowey, LaPorta, and RPerez making them FA and they let Kotchman, Hannahan and Sizemore walk. There is possibility they may move Joe Smith bc he is in is 3rd yr of arb. And will be a FA after 2013 but they may want to hang onto him until the trade deadline or try to resign / extend him. It's more than likely that both Choo and CPerez will be traded and it is possible that both ACab and Masterson are floated on the trade block as well. Also, I think the Tribe may look into moving Lou Marson although it would have to bring back a starting pitcher to do so.
Here's a cpl moves I'm just throwing out there to rebuild the roster...
Sign Carlos Villanueva 1yr / $5 mil plus incentives and a vesting option.
Sign Scott Hairston 2yr / $6 mil
Sign Francisco Liriano 3yr /$27 mil and a vesting option.
Sign Ryan Madson 1 yr /$5 mil plus incentives up to $4 mil - WHY????
Sign Melky Cabrera 1 yr / $6 mil plus incentives up to $4 mil - Despite the suspension the dude is getting a BETTER deal than this.
Sign Jeremy Guthrie 2 yr / $16 mil plus a vesting option
Sign Scott Baker 1 yr / $6 mil plus incentives up to $3 mil and a vesting option
Sign Anibal Sanchez 3 yr / $33 mil plus a vesting option
Sign Nick Swisher 3 yr / $39 mil with a vesting option
Sign Michael Bourn 3 yr / $36 mil with vesting options - Doubt he will be this "cheap"
Sign BJ Upton for 3 yr / $27 mil with a vesting option
Sign Mike Napoli 3 yr / $30 mil with a vesting option

Obviously, some of these deals aren't going to take place but the Tribe could be players for some talent if they handle this judicially.

Well - I bolded the ones I think are crazy. Remarked on a cpl others. If the tribe gives Liriano that much money, I might just tune out for the next 3 years. I could see a play for Anibal but not for that kind of money. Swisher would be a nice get, but once again doubt the tribe spends of money - same deal for Napoli.... I would love to see the tribe add both Swisher and Napoli, or someone "like" Napoli... It would make a huge differnce on paper. Plus add in whatever you get for Choo and/or Cperez.

Melky might be the tribe's best bet. Yeah he is a juicer but he is geting a Willingham type of deal at the minimum IMO, does the tribe take a chance?

Once again SP - is going to be a weakness. Hopefully, a good arm(s) join the rotation for 2013, but due to financial constraints - the best option for acquiring such a piece will prolly need to come via a trade. The FO doesn't have a good track record in this regard...

by **homerawayfromhome** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:25 pm

Liriano is a lefty that will log innings, I know...he's been bad, but the Tribe has had serious interest. I'm not sure that he doesn't get overpaid bc he's a strong hard throwing Lefty.

Guthrie has been solid since being traded to KC and at $8 mil for 2 yrs isn't bad.

Madson to let him pitch, return to health and flip him for a prospect or two. One yr bc he would want to hit the mkt again after missing out on a big contract. He could work as a setup man for Pestano / Allen and close. I'd give him CPerez type money but only IF they go full scale rebuild...then I'd try to fill out the roster with a few vets that I think would be trade chips throughout the season. That's a different approach...let him get healthy here so to speak and then flip him once he proves he back, one yr would protect the Tribe too and of course I'd insure the deal in case of reinjury. The big point is only if the team goes full scale rebuild.

Melky Cabrera...I'm not sure about his mkt but to offer him pretty much $10 mil on one yr might get him signed.

Bourn probably does draw more cash, but id throw out 3/4 yrs to him with vesting options on the back end.

I'd love to see the tribe make a play on a few of these guys in theory they could, but they are not usually buyers...that may not be the case, we all know they need an influx of talent so it will have to come by adding a few "affordable pieces" or by making trades for multiple prospects.

I guess I'm kind of playing devils advocate, actually offering some solutions of course some if not most won't happen but it doesn't hurt to throw out a few ideas to pass the time.

by **ironmike** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:08 am

How about the game he pitched earlier against Texas, shutting them out for 7 innings. What about the game he pitched the other day against the Tigers? On a good team he would be close to .500 this year. Lots of pitchers go through these extended up and down stretches and turn it around again.

Look at Cliff Lee in 2007 and this year.

Seen a ton of these very same scenerios going all the way back to Luis Tiant. It's fact. Dennis Eckersley, Gaylord Perry, Rick Sutcliffe, John Denny, lots of them.

Provided Ubaldo is healthy he can turn it around. Besides, who is going to replace him???? TJ McFarland?

Tony bitched about him, but got very quiet after the Texas game. Of course, he has a hidden agenda regading Jimenez and that flaws his thinking.

by **nubballguy** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:09 pm

ironmike wrote:
Tony bitched about him, but got very quiet after the Texas game. Of course, he has a hidden agenda regading Jimenez and that flaws his thinking.

Ironmike, can you tell us what Tony's hidden agenda is? I'll admit, you've got my curiosity.

by **adaree** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:17 pm

ironmike wrote:How about the game he pitched earlier against Texas, shutting them out for 7 innings. What about the game he pitched the other day against the Tigers? On a good team he would be close to .500 this year. Lots of pitchers go through these extended up and down stretches and turn it around again.

Look at Cliff Lee in 2007 and this year.

Seen a ton of these very same scenerios going all the way back to Luis Tiant. It's fact. Dennis Eckersley, Gaylord Perry, Rick Sutcliffe, John Denny, lots of them.

Provided Ubaldo is healthy he can turn it around. Besides, who is going to replace him???? TJ McFarland?

Tony bitched about him, but got very quiet after the Texas game. Of course, he has a hidden agenda regading Jimenez and that flaws his thinking.

Again though, the fact that it HAS happened to pitchers in the past doesn't mean it's GOING to happen with Ubaldo. What ABOUT UBALDO JIMENEZ tells you that he's going to turn the clock back two years if we bring him back? Because right now, all we would be replacing is one of the worst pitchers in baseball, which, obviously isn't hard to do.

by **Edible14** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:25 pm

The answer to that is obviously "he's got great stuff", which is somewhat true. Not as true as it was 3 years ago, but still true.

I don't get the "Tony has an agenda" thing. Tony's first impression of the Ubaldo trade was that he commended the front office for being so bold and thought it was the right move. I don't see how his negative outlook on Ubaldo could be biased by any want to "save face" or prove some previous observations correct. If Tony was being biased and showing undying support for the front office, he'd be doing the exact opposite of what he's doing (openly calling for Shapiro & co to be fired here and on Twitter, saying Ubaldo is a bust at this point). For whatever reason, Mike seems to always take the stance that whenever someone disagrees with him they're an idiot or have an agenda.

And, as a small point, most people here aren't particularly moved by win-loss record. Nobody is using Ubaldo's to justify the claim that he's bad. He has the 2nd most wins on the club (most losses, winning percentage is worse than Masterson, McAllister but better than all other starters). Yes, it's true that he'd have more wins on a better offensive team. That's true for every single pitcher in the history of baseball. It's an irrelevant point that he keeps bringing up. Jimenez is a bad pitcher because he's walking a lot of batters and not striking out nearly enough.

There's an argument for keeping him. It's not like Huff and Gomez really have inspired and they would be the guys that would replace him. Free agent signings would basically be dumpster diving, they'd likely be roughly the same risk as Ubaldo for slightly less money and a lot less upside. Personally, I wouldn't because the team has him for one more year anyway (since that 2014 mutual option is declined pretty much no matter what next year). If we're not contending next year, he's unlikely to be fetching anything in a trade and he's going to command innings that would better be used on evaluating the guys we have to see if we have any diamonds in the rough. We should want to find out if guys like McFarland, Adams, Packer, Barnes and Cook are worthy starters going forward.

by **timdav** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:14 pm

The Indians have many problems and holes, but here's one thing that wouldn't cost THAT much money, that if done correctly, could give them an outstanding foundation:

Go out and recruit and pay the very best high school/college player scouts. Pay them what you have to. Over-pay them if you have to, in order to get the very best people.

Surely even the best 15 or 20 great scouts won't cost the organization more than one fringe, journeyman major league player like Casey Kotchman or Grady Sizemore, who's presence on the team does practically nothing significant.

Build the absolute best minor league scouting and development staff in the majors. If they do this, it won't bear fruit overnight. But when a great farm system starts producing and you keep it going, it will benefit this organization for decades....and not cost all that much, relatively speaking.

Comments?

by **Rocky55** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:59 pm

timdav wrote:The Indians have many problems and holes, but here's one thing that wouldn't cost THAT much money, that if done correctly, could give them an outstanding foundation:

Go out and recruit and pay the very best high school/college player scouts. Pay them what you have to. Over-pay them if you have to, in order to get the very best people.

Surely even the best 15 or 20 great scouts won't cost the organization more than one fringe, journeyman major league player like Casey Kotchman or Grady Sizemore, who's presence on the team does practically nothing significant.

Build the absolute best minor league scouting and development staff in the majors. If they do this, it won't bear fruit overnight. But when a great farm system starts producing and you keep it going, it will benefit this organization for decades....and not cost all that much, relatively speaking.

Comments?

My comment would be that maybe you and I would think that upgrading the scouting would be Small Market MLB Team 101 but it obviously went over these Nimrod's (the FO) heads. Since Nimrod was the Biblical guy who built the Tower of Babel, it must be waaaaay over their heads.

Good thought, Tim. I agree with you and all of the others on the board who realize, seemingly moreso than Mgt, that our situation demands that we maximize the productivity of every area of talent procurement. I wish to God that they'd stop effing aroung with these cheap/minor league FA signings, stop throwing good money after bad, and do their damn jobs.

by **go_tribe** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:44 pm

I just want to add, that along with upgrading our scouting approach, we need to completely change our minor league philosophy. Guys need to be promoted, based on performance, not just where they were drafted. It's beyond frusterating that this org. gives players the sense of "we don't believe in you no matter how good you do in the minors" to so many guys. Every year there are the Goedert type guys that just won't get the chance, no matter what. If you've been traded for or signed as a minor league free agent, no matter what you will be given way to long of a chance to fail.

Also, they never promote a guy in the middle of a hot streak, which is just plain stupid. This drives my dad crazy as well, how desperate where we for right handed hitting when we were still contending? Laporta, Goedert, etc at the time where raking in C-Bus and yet we stuck with worthless Cunningham and Duncan. This org. just gives games away and its insane. They wait till it's far to late to drop them both, meanwhile Laporta and company have cooled off.

by **homerawayfromhome** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:03 pm

At this point I think they should move on from Ubaldo, live up to a mistake and move on. My sentiments are the same with Hernandez move on. Although I doubt it's likely they do it with both, so I can see where they may potentially hold Jimenez bc they have more invested in him and the Hernandez debacle.

I think this org. has to re-evaluate how it does everything from int'l mkt, trades, scouting, drafting and FA. Drafting has improved and the team has been more aggressive recently in the int'l front but the Tribe has to figure out how to scout more effectively, identify affordable FA and talent through various trades. They must also take risks at some level. Hopefully this yr teaches them something.... Like the systematical approach is not working.

by **Edible14** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:08 am

go_tribe wrote:I just want to add, that along with upgrading our scouting approach, we need to completely change our minor league philosophy. Guys need to be promoted, based on performance, not just where they were drafted. It's beyond frusterating that this org. gives players the sense of "we don't believe in you no matter how good you do in the minors" to so many guys. Every year there are the Goedert type guys that just won't get the chance, no matter what. If you've been traded for or signed as a minor league free agent, no matter what you will be given way to long of a chance to fail.

Also, they never promote a guy in the middle of a hot streak, which is just plain stupid. This drives my dad crazy as well, how desperate where we for right handed hitting when we were still contending? Laporta, Goedert, etc at the time where raking in C-Bus and yet we stuck with worthless Cunningham and Duncan. This org. just gives games away and its insane. They wait till it's far to late to drop them both, meanwhile Laporta and company have cooled off.

Agree on one, disagree (to an extent) on the other. My hope is that the scrap heap approach to signing free agents is, at the very least, toned down this year. It's produced some good results, but this last year it produced almost nothing positive. Accardo, Wheeler, Lowe, Damon and Cunningham were all awful. Esmil Rogers was a good pickup, and that's it. Kotchman was bad, but I think he was probably still an upgrade over what we had, sad as that is.

There's a difference to be found between finding a guy who's undervalued and bringing him in on a club-friendly contract, and signing a bunch of retreads and hoping one of them sticks. Trading anything for Cunningham was stupid. Trading anything of even hypothetical, long-shot value to get Lars Anderson was bad. Claiming Rottino when you already had Canzler, LaPorta, Goedert, Huffman and Neal filling roughly the same role was also asinine. The goal shouldn't be "throw it all against a wall and see what sticks". If that's what you're doing (and if you are, that says nothing positive for your talent evaluation skills), you might as well be using minor leaguers that are performing well . It'll be cheaper, and you'll be creating incentive for performance. AND... in the case that something does stick, you'll have a young cost controlled option instead of a 30 year old creeping really close to arbitration and/or being out of options.

Signing Millwood was a savvy move on a guy whose stock was down. Signing 6 different guys to minor league contracts to see them duke it out with Aaron Cunningham in spring training... and then actually giving a number of those guys spots in Columbus where you could have been playing guys like Neal and Weglarz... is taking the strategy too far. As a rule, I think you shouldn't be signing a guy and assigning him to an affiliate unless you actually think he's good. Not "might be an okay bench guy"... GOOD.

I'm actually fine with patience as far as streaks go. As much as I'd like to see guys like Goedert get a chance, I don't want it to be the case that the big league ballclub makes a change every week. First off, it's probably not good for clubhouse chemistry and confidence. Second... promote guys to the show when you think they're actually ready for it and are ready to commit to them a serious opportunity. If you're just going to sit them on the bench for a week or so, or send them down in a month if they don't hit right away, then it really isn't helping anyone. What was done with LaPorta this year was bemoaned by a lot of people, and rightfully so. If that's the extent of the "opportunity" that you're going to give someone, then what point is there in taking them out of their routine and basically setting them up in a no-win situation? Doing that to someone is rightfully seen as the universal sign of "this guy is considered worthless by this org". They do well, they get sent down anyway, and if they don't they get sent down losing all confidence and routine. Promote guys when you actually have an opportunity for them to play. Promoting someone to replace Shelly Duncan's role as the last guy off the bench is dumb. Promoting someone to start in LF because you just got rid of Johnny Damon is fine.

To put it more simply. Which is a better course of action:

A) You promote a guy that's not considered a prospect but has performed well at AAA for a few weeks while someone is injured, or until someone else performs. You place him on the bench. After an extremely limited opportunity, they fail to impress and are sent back to the minors and soon out of the organization (see: Jerad Head, Jordan Brown, probably Matt LaPorta).

B) You promote a guy when you have at-bats and opportunities for him, and respect their talents enough to be somewhat patient. You give him some extended time to prove his worth, and he either does or doesn't (Cord Phelps 2011, Zeke Carerra, Russ Canzler, Zach McAllister).

by **go_tribe** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:05 am

What I mean by calling a guy up when he's hot goes beyond just sitting him on the bench once he's promoted, but rather giving him significant playing time over someone who sucks, such as Duncan/Cunningham/Damon. It's not like they were just bench guys, at least one of them where consistantly in the lineup every game, whether in LF or DH.

Give a guy that hasnt had a chance to prove himself at the major league level (Goedert) one spot that we are throwing at bats away every freakin game. What if my some chance Goedert, a player with significant playing time in AAA over the last few years, who has also proven himself on that level of being pretty good, becomes our tempory solution as a RH hitter in our lineup, even for just one year? Maybe we still completely tank, and I'm not saying Goedert would have saved the meltdown this year, but wouldnt it be worth it to see what we had in him when it still mattered? He might have provided some sort of spark ala Ben Francisco 2007, you never know, and we will never know because instead they continued to WASTE not just a few, but A LOT of at bats with guys that sucked and continued to suck and suck and suck who had no future with the team anyway.

Replace Goedert's name with Laporta if you want, doesnt matter. It's the point that if your going to give away at bats to guys that suck and have sucked for a long time, why not take that chance on someone who's actually having a good year? The goal is to win games, and when you're 3 back at the end of July, every win is even more important. Who cares if it only equals one win, the whole damn season could come down one game and this org. would rather continue to do nothing than win it. No desperation to get better at all, they're content either way.

by **daingean** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:12 am

Edible14 wrote:Agree on one, disagree (to an extent) on the other. My hope is that the scrap heap approach to signing free agents is, at the very least, toned down this year. It's produced some good results, but this last year it produced almost nothing positive. Accardo, Wheeler, Lowe, Damon and Cunningham were all awful. Esmil Rogers was a good pickup, and that's it. Kotchman was bad, but I think he was probably still an upgrade over what we had, sad as that is.
.

My problem is that when you're in a self desribed "window of contention" you make quality moves in the off season. This past off season was bereft of quality moves and instead filled with crap. I know in the end the Lowe deal was a bust but for the first 2 months of the season he carried the team from a pitching perspective (then he tanked). Damon was a desperate move because Sizemore got hurt. Now that our "window" has been slammed shut, I won't have a problem with a few cheaper stop gap solutions as long as those names are not Kotchman, Damon, Cunningham or Lowe.

by **ironmike** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:37 am

Interesting, great move by the Rockies...

•The Rockies are hoping to hire Marlins special assistant Mark Wiley as their new director of pitching, writes Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com. In this role, Wiley, who previously worked for the Rockies before joining the Marlins, "would have responsibility and authority over all parts of the organization, from scouting and drafting, through development, and all the way to bringing pitchers to the major leagues."
Who do we have in our organization that would does this role?

Ross Atkins???

The Rockies have turned over the responsibility and authority to a dedicated, proven baseball guy. Some of you will remember Wiley was with the Indians during our winning years.

Ross Atkins or Mark Wiley?

Wiley every time.

by **adaree** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:02 pm

That's interesting, I guess...

So since you avoided the question before: What specifically about Ubaldo's game makes you feel as though he will rebound and magically transform back into a productive pitcher next season? And better yet, what possible reason would Tony have to promote this "hidden agenda" of ragging on Jimenez while praising Pomeranz and White? It sounds to me like since somebody's opinion is different from yours, and you don't have any validity to back up your opinion, the other person immediately has ulterior motives behind their remarks.

by **MadThinker88** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:09 pm

Arizona dfa'd Cole Gillespie today and I think the Tribe should put in the necessary claim. Would rather have Cole than either LaPorta or Rottino at this point (both are prime DFA candidates for roster space). Please note i'm not thinking Cole would be an all-star but I suspect he would be better then guys like Cunningham or others that could be brought in as minor league free agents for 2013.

To be honest I think Choo gets moved in the offseason but only if the deal is right. NO ONE HERE will deal Choo for a single fringe prospect so we have to consider the possibility Choo is here when 2013 opens.

With that said I would be VERY OPEN to having 4 players (Carerra, Fedroff, Neal and Cole) competing for 2 OF spots next spring (LF and backup).

by **homerawayfromhome** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:16 am

Agreed, I noticed that too. This is where I think they have to take fliers on some of the guys that go through waivers at this point of the season. I think Gillespie could be a serviceable bench bat, at this point that's more than what they have.
Although I think guys like Scott Maine won't be difference makers, he is a prime example of that kind of pick up. He's got a good FB particularly intriguing if he can get a harness on his control then he becomes potentially one of the Lefties in the pen.
I'll be glad to see this season end, funny how we fans have reached that point. It surely didn't expect that back in August but it has even toast. At this point I'm almost to the point of hoping they lose out the remainder of the season for draft / and waiver priority.

by **homerawayfromhome** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:39 am

With rumors that the Mets will be shopping Lucas Duda, and / or potentially Ike Davis... I'm curious if the Tribe would have interest, I would at least talk. The Mets could have serious interest in Chris Perez, maybe Choo too. There were rumors that they were shopping Jon Niese, he's definitely another name I'd seriously look into.

by **GhostofTedCox** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:12 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:With rumors that the Mets will be shopping Lucas Duda, and / or potentially Ike Davis... I'm curious if the Tribe would have interest, I would at least talk. The Mets could have serious interest in Chris Perez, maybe Choo too. There were rumors that they were shopping Jon Niese, he's definitely another name I'd seriously look into.

I might make Ike Davis my #1 offensive priority. He's young, inexpensive, has plenty of power, and he's available. Yes, he's a LH bat. But complaining about that at this point is like a drowning man saying the life jacket is the wrong color.

by **GhostofTedCox** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:30 pm

So the rumors seem to be saying that Acta is out, but Antonetti will stay.
(I think they both should go, but my vote doesn't count.)

However, if Antonetti does in fact stay; How about getting him some help?
Could the Indians hire a baseball consultant from outside the organization to give CA another opinion? :idea

Shapiro doesn't count. Whatever advice he gave apparently doesn't work.

I'm thinking somebody that has GM experience. Either semi-retired, or looking for work.

by **daingean** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:50 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:So the rumors seem to be saying that Acta is out, but Antonetti will stay.
(I think they both should go, but my vote doesn't count.)

However, if Antonetti does in fact stay; How about getting him some help?
Could the Indians hire a baseball consultant from outside the organization to give CA another opinion?
Shapiro doesn't count. Whatever advice he gave apparently doesn't work.

I'm thinking somebody that has GM experience. Either semi-retired, or looking for work.

It doesn't matter. CA in my opinion is afraid now to pull the trigger on a deal. He got burned on the Ubaldo deal and was afraid to give Willingham a 3 year deal. The difference between what we got from LF or 1B this year compared to what Willingham would have given us was well worth it. Plus we wouldn't have wasted money on either Kotchman or Damon (whereever Willingham would have slotted). A baseball man would not have corrected fear.

by **homerawayfromhome** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:53 pm

Drowning man... The life jacket is the wrong color.
Funny but a great pic. of the Tribes situation.

Definately got to think they would consider adding a special asst. in there. I'm pretty certain we all know Acta is gone... so who gets the gig? Alomar, Saurbaugh or someone else. I'd love to see Alomar get it, but kind of feel like it just might be someone from outside the org.

by **timdav** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:21 pm

Rumors are Terry Francona might be the next Indians manager. Have no idea how true those rumors are.

by **Bearcatbob** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:42 pm

Look at our lineup vs the Twins. 3 through 5 for the Twins. Muaer, Willingham. Marniau - any other questions?

by **timdav** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:19 pm

Errrrr...the two Twins' M guys names are spelled Mauer and Morneau.

by **Hermie13** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:40 pm

I really don't see how the Tribe could decline Ubaldo's option. Yes he's been bad, but remember he is not a free agent if you decline his option. You would have to both decline his option and then non-tender him on top of that (doesn't have 6 years service time). Had we not dealt for Ubaldo and simply had him in our organization and he was pitching this bad...would you be saying let's non-tender him? Maybe...but he does at least give you innings and does have past success. The Tribe was willing to take a chance on Grady at $5M...I would be beyond shocked if Ubaldo's option was declined.

by **Hermie13** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:46 pm

daingean wrote:It doesn't matter. CA in my opinion is afraid now to pull the trigger on a deal. He got burned on the Ubaldo deal and was afraid to give Willingham a 3 year deal. The difference between what we got from LF or 1B this year compared to what Willingham would have given us was well worth it. Plus we wouldn't have wasted money on either Kotchman or Damon (whereever Willingham would have slotted). A baseball man would not have corrected fear.

A bit off topic but I don't believe it's truely accurate to say/suggest the reason we didn't get Willingham was because CA was afraid to give him 3 years. I'm guessing CA was afraid of that as reports suggest we were offering 2, but seems too many people are just assuming that had we offered 3 years, we'd have been the ones to sign him (Chris Perez seems to be in that camp too).

But why are people assuming that? Grady hadn't been hurt yet, Brantly in LF, and Hafner at DH left only 1B open and part-time OF duties (Grady wasn't gonna be able to play everday, Brantley was gonna work out at 1B some). It sure seemed to me that Willingham wasn't a fan of coming to Cleveland. He didn't have a guranteed spot in the lineup. Sure he would have played 6 to 7 days a week but at what position? The Twins had lost Kubel and Cuddyer and had a hole in LF (and DH when Mauer was catching). Maybe I'm way off but I'd bet that if the Tribe had offered the same deal as the Twins we still woudln't have Willingham...hell, maybe even if we offered more. We did offer Carlos Pena more than the Rays and lost out don't forget.

Not giving CA a pass on this winter overall though. I am pretty disappointed we didn't add another SP (dont' count Slowey as he was/is terrible) and didn't get a hitter thru a trade. Now maybe he tried and nothing was there...but that to me was the big disappointment. Losing out on Willingham sucked too, but may not have been CA's (or the Dolans) fault completley (though can blame him for the Grady signing)...

by **daingean** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:15 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
But why are people assuming that? Grady hadn't been hurt yet, Brantly in LF, and Hafner at DH left only 1B open and part-time OF duties (Grady wasn't gonna be able to play everday, Brantley was gonna work out at 1B some). It sure seemed to me that Willingham wasn't a fan of coming to Cleveland. He didn't have a guranteed spot in the lineup. Sure he would have played 6 to 7 days a week but at what position? The Twins had lost Kubel and Cuddyer and had a hole in LF (and DH when Mauer was catching). Maybe I'm way off but I'd bet that if the Tribe had offered the same deal as the Twins we still woudln't have Willingham...hell, maybe even if we offered more. We did offer Carlos Pena more than the Rays and lost out don't forget.

I am basing this on a comment Tony made (maybe on twitter) that it was his understanding that Willingham would have signed with Cleveland had they went 3 years. I believe that players talk and Perez heard that too. It's CA's job to assemble the team.

As for Ubaldo, I'm on the fence but think we decline his option and then attempt to resign him for a low base + incentives. Same with F-Bob. Let our group of pitchers fight it out.

by **homerawayfromhome** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:17 pm

I think that would be a creative way to handle Jimenez and something I had suggested about Hernandez, I think Hernandez would be the one they would likely do that with bc of this past season, the debacle and lack of innings pitched. Jimenez could actually have a suitor or two they might sneak Jimenez away if he became a FA. Hernandez is less prone to have interest but Boston has reportedly had interest in him for yrs, but I'm not sure if that has been tempered by Roberto's coming out party.

by **ironmike** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:49 am

Hermie, you always try to twist and find a silver lining in a pile of garbage. Garbage is garbage. Poor business model, bad talent evaluators who make poor hires, in turn who make bad trades and signings.

What do you get?

An organization that was on the top of the baseball world to the worst. Now that is garbage.

by **Hermie13** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:13 pm

daingean wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
But why are people assuming that? Grady hadn't been hurt yet, Brantly in LF, and Hafner at DH left only 1B open and part-time OF duties (Grady wasn't gonna be able to play everday, Brantley was gonna work out at 1B some). It sure seemed to me that Willingham wasn't a fan of coming to Cleveland. He didn't have a guranteed spot in the lineup. Sure he would have played 6 to 7 days a week but at what position? The Twins had lost Kubel and Cuddyer and had a hole in LF (and DH when Mauer was catching). Maybe I'm way off but I'd bet that if the Tribe had offered the same deal as the Twins we still woudln't have Willingham...hell, maybe even if we offered more. We did offer Carlos Pena more than the Rays and lost out don't forget.

I am basing this on a comment Tony made (maybe on twitter) that it was his understanding that Willingham would have signed with Cleveland had they went 3 years. I believe that players talk and Perez heard that too. It's CA's job to assemble the team.

As for Ubaldo, I'm on the fence but think we decline his option and then attempt to resign him for a low base + incentives. Same with F-Bob. Let our group of pitchers fight it out.

Not saying you are wrong but it seemed Willingham wasn't a fan of playing 1B and at the time that's where he'd have slotted in. Maybe if we went 3 years and bettered the Twins money he'd have signed but a guaranteed OF spot in Minny was probably more tempting than splitting time between 1B, LF and DH in Cleveland. But again maybe I am way off and he would have signed here simply by us giving him 3 years. Perez also said guys didn't want to sign with Cleveland because of the fans though...

Hard to sign Ubaldo at a lower deal though. Non-tendering him would be a slap in the face (not that he doesn't deserve it) and he would likely sign elsewhere. If you decline the option and offer arby you'll end up paying more than the option likely. It's the same situation as with Faust last year. Faust wasn't eligible to be a free agent and going to Darby would have cost more than the option so we picked it up. Would be shocked if Ubaldo is any different.

Now Fausto's option this year will be declined. He'll be a free agent this time around and can't see many teams jumping to sign him. Could see the Indians trying to resign him cheap

by **GoTribe028** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
daingean wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
But why are people assuming that? Grady hadn't been hurt yet, Brantly in LF, and Hafner at DH left only 1B open and part-time OF duties (Grady wasn't gonna be able to play everday, Brantley was gonna work out at 1B some). It sure seemed to me that Willingham wasn't a fan of coming to Cleveland. He didn't have a guranteed spot in the lineup. Sure he would have played 6 to 7 days a week but at what position? The Twins had lost Kubel and Cuddyer and had a hole in LF (and DH when Mauer was catching). Maybe I'm way off but I'd bet that if the Tribe had offered the same deal as the Twins we still woudln't have Willingham...hell, maybe even if we offered more. We did offer Carlos Pena more than the Rays and lost out don't forget.

I am basing this on a comment Tony made (maybe on twitter) that it was his understanding that Willingham would have signed with Cleveland had they went 3 years. I believe that players talk and Perez heard that too. It's CA's job to assemble the team.

As for Ubaldo, I'm on the fence but think we decline his option and then attempt to resign him for a low base + incentives. Same with F-Bob. Let our group of pitchers fight it out.

Not saying you are wrong but it seemed Willingham wasn't a fan of playing 1B and at the time that's where he'd have slotted in. Maybe if we went 3 years and bettered the Twins money he'd have signed but a guaranteed OF spot in Minny was probably more tempting than splitting time between 1B, LF and DH in Cleveland. But again maybe I am way off and he would have signed here simply by us giving him 3 years. Perez also said guys didn't want to sign with Cleveland because of the fans though...

Hard to sign Ubaldo at a lower deal though. Non-tendering him would be a slap in the face (not that he doesn't deserve it) and he would likely sign elsewhere. If you decline the option and offer arby you'll end up paying more than the option likely. It's the same situation as with Faust last year. Faust wasn't eligible to be a free agent and going to Darby would have cost more than the option so we picked it up. Would be shocked if Ubaldo is any different.

Now Fausto's option this year will be declined. He'll be a free agent this time around and can't see many teams jumping to sign him. Could see the Indians trying to resign him cheap

Indians need to cut the cord with Ubaldo Jimenez and Fausto Carmonandez. None of this lower salary BS. Move the hell on from them. I don't care how cheap they would resign, or wouldn't resign for. Point is if they are brought back in, it's because the Indians failed to develop and/or bring in effective starting pitching and yet again will bank on the idea that "they can't be any worse".

The Indians can do no worse by moving on and allocating their money elsewhere. Bring in someone who isn't a complete train wreck. I forget where I heard this before, but if tearing it down isn't in the cards for 2013 then look into someone like Edwin Jackson on a multiyear deal and a guy like the previously mentioned Carlos Villanueva. Replace said players if you dont agree with those two. Maybe Jackson isn't the guy you offer 2+ years to, but damn it to hell stop it with the same old shit that got the Indians into this retarded mess. Stop hoping guys will just "figure it out" and go get someone who can actually help be a steady force in the rotation with the Masterson's and McAllister's instead of the messes that are Jimenez and Carmona.

Frankly I'm getting tired of the excuses that no FA will come here, and big market clubs will just pay more. Then Chris Antonetti needs to get his act together and make something work in the teams favor. Or he needs to go. If Tampa can figure it out, if Oakland and Baltimore can figure it out then so can the Indians. It's a matter of CA and company getting their shit straight.

by **indians1** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:58 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
daingean wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
But why are people assuming that? Grady hadn't been hurt yet, Brantly in LF, and Hafner at DH left only 1B open and part-time OF duties (Grady wasn't gonna be able to play everday, Brantley was gonna work out at 1B some). It sure seemed to me that Willingham wasn't a fan of coming to Cleveland. He didn't have a guranteed spot in the lineup. Sure he would have played 6 to 7 days a week but at what position? The Twins had lost Kubel and Cuddyer and had a hole in LF (and DH when Mauer was catching). Maybe I'm way off but I'd bet that if the Tribe had offered the same deal as the Twins we still woudln't have Willingham...hell, maybe even if we offered more. We did offer Carlos Pena more than the Rays and lost out don't forget.

I am basing this on a comment Tony made (maybe on twitter) that it was his understanding that Willingham would have signed with Cleveland had they went 3 years. I believe that players talk and Perez heard that too. It's CA's job to assemble the team.

As for Ubaldo, I'm on the fence but think we decline his option and then attempt to resign him for a low base + incentives. Same with F-Bob. Let our group of pitchers fight it out.

Not saying you are wrong but it seemed Willingham wasn't a fan of playing 1B and at the time that's where he'd have slotted in. Maybe if we went 3 years and bettered the Twins money he'd have signed but a guaranteed OF spot in Minny was probably more tempting than splitting time between 1B, LF and DH in Cleveland. But again maybe I am way off and he would have signed here simply by us giving him 3 years. Perez also said guys didn't want to sign with Cleveland because of the fans though...

Hard to sign Ubaldo at a lower deal though. Non-tendering him would be a slap in the face (not that he doesn't deserve it) and he would likely sign elsewhere. If you decline the option and offer arby you'll end up paying more than the option likely. It's the same situation as with Faust last year. Faust wasn't eligible to be a free agent and going to Darby would have cost more than the option so we picked it up. Would be shocked if Ubaldo is any different.

Now Fausto's option this year will be declined. He'll be a free agent this time around and can't see many teams jumping to sign him. Could see the Indians trying to resign him cheap

Indians need to cut the cord with Ubaldo Jimenez and Fausto Carmonandez. None of this lower salary BS. Move the hell on from them. I don't care how cheap they would resign, or wouldn't resign for. Point is if they are brought back in, it's because the Indians failed to develop and/or bring in effective starting pitching and yet again will bank on the idea that "they can't be any worse".

The Indians can do no worse by moving on and allocating their money elsewhere. Bring in someone who isn't a complete train wreck. I forget where I heard this before, but if tearing it down isn't in the cards for 2013 then look into someone like Edwin Jackson on a multiyear deal and a guy like the previously mentioned Carlos Villanueva. Replace said players if you dont agree with those two. Maybe Jackson isn't the guy you offer 2+ years to, but damn it to hell stop it with the same old shit that got the Indians into this retarded mess. Stop hoping guys will just "figure it out" and go get someone who can actually help be a steady force in the rotation with the Masterson's and McAllister's instead of the messes that are Jimenez and Carmona.

Frankly I'm getting tired of the excuses that no FA will come here, and big market clubs will just pay more. Then Chris Antonetti needs to get his act together and make something work in the teams favor. Or he needs to go. If Tampa can figure it out, if Oakland and Baltimore can figure it out then so can the Indians. It's a matter of CA and company getting their shit straight.

+10000000000 %

by **GeronimoSon** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:00 pm

David Huff.. pitched into the 6th inning..limited the Royals to three hits and one walk.. threw all three of his pitches for strikes.. was in command.. in short, a pretty good outing..

Has he pitched his way into the discussion for a Starting Spot in the 2013 rotation?....

by **homerawayfromhome** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:12 pm

Huff has looked good in his limited outings but can't hate his results. I'd definately let him compete for a spot if he gets another 1 or 2 more outings in like this. Regardless there are other guys that simply must go IMO.

Three guys I would like to see in a Tribe uniform next season...

Anibal Sanchez
Mike Napoli
Carlos Villanueva

I think the Tribe could land all three and spent less than $25 mil per season combined to get them signed.

by **GoTribe028** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:44 am

GeronimoSon wrote:David Huff.. pitched into the 6th inning..limited the Royals to three hits and one walk.. threw all three of his pitches for strikes.. was in command.. in short, a pretty good outing..

Has he pitched his way into the discussion for a Starting Spot in the 2013 rotation?....

He certainly hasn't hurt himself. IMO he's a legit DFA candidate this offseason, so I'm not quite ready to add him to the mix for next season. Right now he's pitched well enough, but his season in 3A was subpar.

I would take Huff over Jimenez right now. To be fair, that may be because I'm so disenchanted with Jimenez, but I'd rather the Indians save the $ on both he and Carmonandez and allocate it somewhere else.

by **Edible14** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:10 am

GoTribe028 wrote:I would take Huff over Jimenez right now. To be fair, that may be because I'm so disenchanted with Jimenez, but I'd rather the Indians save the $ on both he and Carmonandez and allocate it somewhere else.

That's the big question for me. The way I see it is this. There are three guys who should, pretty much no matter what, be slotted into the rotation next year. Kluber, Masterson and McAllister. Then we have 5 guys that can't be sent to AAA without clearing waivers or who would need to be re-signed and basically handed a rotation spot. Assuming Slowey is simply not brought back...

Huff and Gomez are both low-ceiling, younger, out of options and unimpressive. But they're cheap and they both have some room to believe they can get better. Huff because his performance in the minors last year drew good reviews and his brief stint up this year has also been positive. Gomez because he's young.

Carnandez and Jimenez are more expensive, but offer a potentially greater upside. There's not a whole lot of reasons to believe that they'll solve their issues and be back to solid pitchers. Obviously, if they're going to continue being as bad as they are, there's no reason to keep them. I'd only be willing to do it if you got a pitching coach/evaluator that can make a convincing case that they can be salvaged and that it will be done. If we're not competing, there's no reason to bring them back at their current expected salaries. If we are expecting to compete, then I guess it's better having some upside in the 4/5 spots in the rotation.

There's the scrap heap portion of free agency. Oakland found some pieces there this year. I suspect, though, that if we go this route the guys we pick up will mostly be placeholders for younger guys until they are traded/released/put on the DL by midseason. I think the scrap heap philosophy needs to be toned down in general, so I'd really like this not to happen much.

Then there's the young guys. Carrasco will likely benefit from some time in AAA to regain command. McFarland, Packer and Cook are close but not on the 40 and honestly aren't overwhelming. They should be options if they perform well to be a midseason call-up like Tomlin in 2010, but they shouldn't be opening with the big league club. Soto and Salazar are better prospects, but are further away. Also, there's Barnes.

Personally, I'd get rid of Ubaldo and Fauxberto. I'd have Huff and Gomez pencilled in unless you found a guy in free agency/trading who you truly believed was undervalued and could contribute positively. If you find a Millwood/Pavano type then at least you can flip that guy at the deadline for a prospect (and if they really contribute, maybe the team can contend). Then you DFA Huff to make room. If you find a second, DFA Gomez to bring him in. You shouldn't staff Columbus with more than one guy like Huff/Slowey/Gomez... guys that are major league "ready" but aren't "good".

by **homerawayfromhome** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:30 am

I agree Huff could be a DFA candidate. I think there are others who could go first. Kevin Slowey has done nothing to remain on the roster and Chris Seddon might be a DFA candidate as well, but I think that depends if the Tribe wants to try to utilize him as a possible pen arm. If they do he could compete for one of the Lefty spots in the spring. I think it should be mentioned that Huff battled through injury part of the season too, and kept pitching. I'm not a fan of Huff I hope he does well here but right now I'd just consider him a depth option. If there's room I keep him, if there's not I move on.

by **homerawayfromhome** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:18 am

I've been making a quick look over the Tribes payroll for 2012. The following list(s) are players and the contract value that is no longer with the team, others are players who are likely to be moved, let go, etc during the offseason.

Trades:
Choo $4.9 mil... He is arb 3 eligible
Chris Perez $4.5 mil... He is arb 2 eligible

Options:
Hafner $13 mil w/ $2.75 mil option for '13 a net savings of $10.25 mil
Hernandez $2.5 mil w/ a $6 mil option w/ no buyout, the Tribe can simply opt out
Jimenez $4.75 mil w/ a $5.75 mil option for '13 w/ a $1 mil buyout and $8 mil player option for '14

Arb Eligible:
Raffy Perez $2.05 mil... Arb 3 eligible
Slowey $2.75 mil... Arb 3 eligible... The Tribe paid $1.5 mil of his salary in '12
Hannahan $1.135 mil... Arb 2 eligible

Free Agents:
Kotchman $3 mil
Sizemore $5 mil

Already Gone:
Damon $1.25 mil
Duncan $500 k
Lopez $800 k
Lowe $5 mil
Wheeler $900 k

The total payroll removed if all of these contracts are no longer on the books for 2013 would net a savings of $46,185,000.

by **homerawayfromhome** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:26 am

The following list is comprised of players due raises for 2013.

Salary Increases:
Asdrubal Cabrera will receive a $2 mil base salary increase.
Carlos Santana will receive a $50k base salary increase.

Arb Eligible:
Masterson $3.85 mil in '12 arb 2
Smith $1.75 mil in '12 arb 3
Raffy Perez $2.05 mil arb 3
Hannahan $1.135 mil arb 2
LaPorta arb 1 eligible... Not likely to hit eligibility bc of time in the minors.
Marson arb 1 eligible
Sipp arb 1 eligible
Brantley super two status... Likely just misses the cut off.
Slowey arb 3 eligible
Rogers super two status... Likely just misses the cut off.
Lillibridge arb 1 eligible

by **homerawayfromhome** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:50 am

I think the Tribe should go hard after RH bat Mike Napoli-1b/C/DH of the Rangers. Napoli will be 31 this offseason, had a great yr last yr and has several seasons of respectable numbers. I think Carlos Quentin's 3yrs / $30 mil and Edwin Encarnacion's 3yrs / $29 mil are comparable deals that provide a base for the Tribe to make a real offer. I know it's unlikely but the Tribe has to be aggressive and rethink the way they approach building this team. I'd propose an offer of 3yrs / $30 mil as a starting point.
I also think the Tribe has to address the rotation and it can't be done on the cheap. I'm all for signing / acquiring a various number of arms first and foremost Anibal Sanchez. Sanchez could help add a seriously talented arm to help solidify the front part...2 slot of the rotation. I'd propose a similar 3 yrs / $30 mil offer. Another outside the box add could be an arm like Carlos Villanueva who wants to be a starter but has be used primarily from the pen I'd go out and offer Villanueva 1yr @ $5 with incentives.

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