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Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

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Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:17 am

Since this season has turned very much into developmental yr I wanted to look ahead and identify core guys we would build around, trades we would pursue, and general roster / mgr / FO moves to right the franchise for 2013 and beyond. Suggestions please...
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby Bearcatbob » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:20 pm

I keep waiting for Kotchman and Hannahan to be traded for a bag of balls each. That would open up two slots in September for tryouts.

Bob
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby daingean » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:33 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:I keep waiting for Kotchman and Hannahan to be traded for a bag of balls each. That would open up two slots in September for tryouts.

Bob


you mean we can get a bag of balls for them?

In truth, the Indians need to determine if they can sign Choo to an extension. I also think that with Chiz at 3B and replacements in LF, 1B and DH (not talking guys that will be all stars but decent bats and at least 1 or 2 being RH) this team can contend in the AL Central. If they cannot sign Choo then start converting Santana into a RF this fall and get a 1B for Choo. I'm not as concerned about the SP as some are because we have good arms in the BP to make up for the rotation shortfall (Masterson, Ubaldo, F-BOB, Carrasco, McCallister may be enough to contend if you add decent bats). If you can get something quality for C-Perez then do it but if not so be it. We should have money to spend to get a bat or 2 (we need 3).

Now if we can do that, it will fill the void until the A->Rookie Ball wave matures and is ready for harvest.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:13 pm

There's a lot of roster moves to be made to make this team a real division contender IMO. First, the Tribe could opt out on both Jimenez and Hernandez or one or the other. Hernandez is set to make $6 mil next season and Jimenez $5.75 mil with a $1 mil buyout... But the kicker Jimenez has that player option for $8 mil for 2014 if the Tribe pks his contract up.

Frankly, Choo will not resign so why not trade him for a cpl NOW prospects and a rookie ball type with a good ceiling. Specifically I'd make the deal for a 2 ready pieces but 1 has to be a SP prospect that's ready, and a 1b or OF prospect that is ready now.

Then there is Chris Perez he's been tremendous this season, I really like him, but he's qkly moving toward $10 mil mark which is a luxury the Tribe can't afford with limited resources and arms like Cody Allen and Vinnie Pestano ready to take over the back end of the bullpen now.

All ties with Hafner and Sizemore should be cut.

Then there is Raffy Perez he's barely pitched this season, yet he stands to get a raise through the arbitration process, why not cut him lose by decliningto offer him arbitration. That would be $2 mil better spent else where IMO.

I like Jack Hannahan, but I'd try to move him now if I could... Otherwise I'd decline arbitration and look at several other vets through minor league deals.

As for Casey Kotchman I'd deal him now for cash if at all possible. He could be a late August move as teams seek to add to the bench for the postseason. Not sure if anybody would want him but why not clear his roster spot.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:37 pm

Can't see the Indians cutting ties with both Jiminez & Faustobob. Maybe one or the other, but not both. I wouldn't lose sleep if both were not Indians next year though. That would leave you with only Justin Masterson and Zach McAllister. Still, too many innings to replace. I would assume at least 1 gets brought back then you at least have Masterson, McAllister, Jiminez/Hernandez and 2 open spots.

With the quality of innings you get from either IMO, you can fill one spot from within well enough in the 5th starter role. If he's healthy, Carlos Carrasco would fit in here nicely since he'll likely be limited on innings. There still are arms like McFarland, Kluber, Gomez, and depending on his role going forward Scotty Barnes. Depends on how much they'll value the 5th starter. Hell, maybe Danny Salazar gets a look.

If the Indians moved on from Jiminez AND Hernandez, the Indians cant just go get the next salary dump arm to fill the 2nd rotation opening. Derek Lowe worked as a back end arm, but performed better than Jiminez and Masterson, then worse than Jamie Navarro. The Indians would need to make it a priority to find a quality arm that can haul 190+ innings.

This is exactly why one will be back IMO. With Jiminez I'm sure we'll hear all about how "We feel he still has the ability to help our ballclub and improve on his individual statistics" lingo through next season. Or with Hernandez "He has shown in the past how effective he can be, but the key for him to succeed is consistency in his mechanics and stay within himself. He'll also be well rested and have the burdon of 2012 season behind him".

So I guess a possible rotation next year would be like:
Masterson
Jiminez/Hernandez
McAllister
Outside addition
Carrasco/Gomez/Kluber

I guess you could address a rotation spot potentially in a deal involving Chris Perez and Shin Soo Choo (or anyone for that matter). I think any deals with them will be player for prospect types. How close the prospects are to contributing will be vital to next season (if either are moved). I just don't see teams banging down the door offering up much for a reliever making big money and an OF they'll likely only get 1 season of.

As for position players, he Indians have to be cost effective and spend wisely. That means no Duncan, Kotchman, Hannahan or Damon. That means absolutly no way Sizemore is given anything other than a minor league deal, if not just cutting ties.

That also means move on from Hafner, eat his buyout and move on. The Indians can't look at Hafner and see his 2.5 million dollar buyout and say "Ok, we'll pay you 5(ish) million for 1 year" with the mentallity that they're already on the book for 2.5 already, so it'll only be an extra 2.5 or whatever on top.

How they fill these spots is beyond me. They could easily, just say LaPorta/Canzler/Goedert in place of Duncan. LaPorta/Anderson in place of Kotchman. Fedroff/Carrera in place of Damon. It's probably safe to assume Chisenhall will take over at 3rd, with Jason Donald and/or Brent Lillibridge assuming bench roles. Could also throw Cord Phelps in the mix too.

Hell they could just decide Carlos Santana's offensive #'s look good if you pretend he's the left fielder and bring in another cather to split with Lou Marson.

Too many holes to simply stand pat, which no matter how anyone attempts to spin it, is exactly what Chris Antonetti did this season.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:15 pm

First off.. good thread starter.. perhaps instead of building the club in the game thread or at the trading deadline, etc., the future team can be discussed here... that's all for now...
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby JP_Frost » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:20 pm

Too many holes to fill imo.

Blow it up.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby criznit2009 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:24 pm

JP_Frost wrote:Too many holes to fill imo.

Blow it up.


IMO it is already blown up from a player stand point... Please explain to me what you(and others) mean by blowing it up....
Does blowing it up mean sacking Shapiro and/or Antonetti? If that is what it means I will light the fuse! Im not trying to be a dick but when people say "blow it up" please elaborate because thats one of those vague-ass terms that could mean a ton of different things.. Any way....

Without a key FA signing(s) or trade in the off-season it will even worse next year. Whoa what a revelation!! Now hopefully C.A and Co. get the memo in time for 2013..... We could still compete next year but its going to take COMMITMENT ($$$) from the owner/F.O. Some luck and a keen eye on finding the best bang for the buck via free agency or trade. I have little confidence that the F.O will be able to add these types of players. Personally feel the best move the tribe could make this off-season is cleaning out the F.O, starting with Antonetti but if he goes Shapiro better go too.

On a different note:
As for Hafner - I don't know much about contracts and the finer details but - what would happen if we flat out released him now? Would we still be on the hook for his 2013 buy out or?????? Yes I am saying pay him for his full year now, put him on waivers, once he clears release him and let any other team pick him up once he is a F.A if they choose. Would the tribe still have to buy out 2013?
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:50 pm

Fausto Carmona has been one of my favorite and may I add one of the most frustrating members of the Tribe for several yrs. why Sizemore was brought back is / was beyond me... Seriously, the Tribe should have moved on. Maybe a major legue min. deal with incentives but with limited funds WHY?

I'll be the first to take a stand here...

I say dump Jimenez, not bc of his '13 salary but bc of the player option for '14. The Tribe can't afford to sink $8 mil in Jimenez and get another plus 5 era / near 6 era.

I say keep FC Hernandez we at least know he will post a 5 era and get near 200 innings.

I trade Chris Perez for a major league ready bat and a SP prospect and an A baller with a good ceiling if I can get it.

I trade Choo for a major league ready bat and a major league ready SP and an A baller with a good ceiling.

I drop Duncan.

Let Raffy Perez walk.

Sign a ton of minor league deals to fill out the bench, and bargain shop to add a few vets.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:53 pm

I don't think they can release Hafner while on the DL. Think workers comp... They would have to work out a deal to let him go.
I say pay the man, and move on. Thank him for his time, and thank GOD he will finally be off the books.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:48 pm

Criz.. ML contracts (like Hafner's) are guaranteed. The Indians are on the hook for the remainder of his salary for 2012. The $ 2.75 MM buyout would also be guaranteed.. That would end the Indians obligations to PRONK and close the case with this sad ending..

Homer.. So in a nutshell.. it's Keep FAUSTO, dump Ubaldo, dump Shelly, trade Chris Perez for someone or three someones (VAGUE !!), trade Choo for someone or three someones (VAGUE !!). Wow, that's pretty clear. Six new someones added, four known players dumped... Your suggestion amounts to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. PSST... the boat sinks..

A piece of advice that you may want to adhere to, try adding some names to the someones.. otherwise, you're sounding a LOT like RustyMike, with his go get McCutchen even though he's not available for who knows what or go get Billy Hamilton for who knows what.. If all you're going to do is identify the problem from your not so unique perspective, then, do what I tell my employees to do when they bring their problem(s) to me: If they don't walk into my office with in their opinion what is the best solution/plan of action, their second best/solution plan of action.. THEN WHY THE HELL DO I NEED THEM? Problem identifiers are easy to replace.. problem solvers, not so much..
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:17 am

Jimenez's option for 2014 isn't a player option.

It's a club option which, because Jimenez was traded, he now has the ability to void if he wants - essentially making it a mutual option.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby daingean » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:31 am

I hear everyone saying "blow it up" and I certainly can see why people are of that opinion. I just still think there is opportunity to compete in the AL Central. Being in the race till the last week in September or even making the playoffs would be huge for this team. Yes we have a lot of warts but so do the Chi-Sux, Tiggers, Royals, and Twinkies. Yes we don't have an Ace SP but we do have quality in the back end of our BP. We don't have a 30 HR guy or 130 RBI guys but we do have a scrappy bunch of players (hence our ability to be contenders through June with all the warts we do have).

With that said, I think we have a lot of talent in the lower minors and we need to let that group mature. Maybe the only thing I'd do is entertain offers for some of our middle infield depth. Other than that, get a guy in LF and 1B that provides offensive production (and DH if Hafner is gone - which I expect).

I think a rotation of Masterson, Ubaldo, Hernandez, McCallister and Carrasco can allow the Indians to compete when combined with a BP of C.Perez, Pestano, Allen, Smith, R.Perez, and Sipp (add in Hagadone if he can take that step forward).

First thing I would do is move Santana out from behind the plate to LF (or RF if Choo is traded). I think Marson is a better receiver defensively and that goes a long way with the pitching staff. I also think it would free up Santana to concentrate on his offense. That means signing a couple of backstops (one for AAA and the other to back up Marson). I just think that Santana is better athlete and fits in better in the OF than 1B. I would also expect the pitching staff to take a step forward with Marson at catcher.

The #1 thing this team needs is a RH hitter. Too many games this team gets shutdown for multiple innings by mediocre lefties like Tim Collins. Someone has to break up that string and make the opposing manager make a move.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby timdav » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:46 am

But, as fans, do we want to see our team aim to just win the AL Central, or build it right for a legitimate shot at a World Series ring?

Does anybody out there honestly believe the Indians are just a couple or 3 players from a realistic world series championship caliber team? If you believe that....that amazes me.

IMHO they should try to trade Chris Perez and Shin-Soo Choo for a solid #3 or #2 (if they get lucky) starting pitcher, and at least one (hopefully two) solid major league right-handed hitters...and go from there.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby daingean » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:19 am

timdav wrote:But, as fans, do we want to see our team aim to just win the AL Central, or build it right for a legitimate shot at a World Series ring?

Does anybody out there honestly believe the Indians are just a couple or 3 players from a realistic world series championship caliber team? If you believe that....that amazes me.

IMHO they should try to trade Chris Perez and Shin-Soo Choo for a solid #3 or #2 (if they get lucky) starting pitcher, and at least one (hopefully two) solid major league right-handed hitters...and go from there.


Look I want the Tribe to win a WS like everyone. I want to set sights at being the best but I don't see the value in blowing it up. All that will do is send a negative message to the fans, players, advertisers when this team needs to rebuild those. Plus, it is not always the best team which wins the WS but the hottest team. We don't have to beat the Yankees in a 162 game season but in a 5 or 7 game series. You have NO chance if you don't compete. Plus guys like Ubaldo, F-Bob, and the likes have no value on the trade market. Disgarding them would be selling low. I am stating that there is a chance that our SP rotation would look better with full year of Marson (if not what are we really losing?).
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby homerawayfromhome » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:13 am

@ Geronimo...

Your right it is vague, (lets hear yours ---and im not trying to dig at you, i want to hear some solutions thats why i started this post) the market is not established yet but I'm saying I would move these pieces...

I let Ubaldo walk solely bc of the player option and utter inconsistencies.

Ikeep FC Hernandez only bc we know he will log near 200 innings and is a FA after 2013.

I trade Choo who has value and is looking like a 20/20 player with one yr remaining on his contract. My demand to clarify somewhat is 3 players more specifically... young SP and a bat either at 1b or OF that's also ready NOW and a low A ball SP.

I would trade CPerez for the same above, although I realize a reliever would / could bring back less, however CPerez has 2 yrs of controll remaining, on that premise I demand the same and hold him until at least all star break next season IF I have to.

Last offseason I dropped 3 names I said I actively pursue to fill holes in the lineup one.
I proposed trading 'then' Fausto Carmona (who the RedSox reportedly have adored) before that all broke loose or Chris Perez for Josh Reddick, signing Cody Ross, and also Ryan Doumit to fill a few holes in the lineup / bench.
If I recall correctly, I was told Reddick was a 4th OF, Doumit and Ross no better than Duncan.
Here's a few numbers...
Doumit .286 avg 14 hrs 59 RBI signed for $3 mil
Ross .274 avg 19 hrs 62 RBI signed for $ 3 mil
Reddick .247 avg 25 hrs 64 RBI a acq. with 2 minor leaguers for Andrew Bailey and Ryan Sweeney.

I have offered solutions, and will offer more.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby homerawayfromhome » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:07 am

Here's a cpl moves I'd look into...

Trading Choo to TX for Mike Olt-1b / 3b, Cody Buckel -SP and a cpl others I'd look at from the Rangers ---Luke Jackson-SP, Martin Perez-SP, and Justin Grimm-SP. I'd try to build a deal around Olt or Perez and get a cpl of the others.

Trading CPerez to Cincinnati for Hamilton-SS / CF. Just bc others have targeted Hamilton, doubt Cincinnati trades him. At least I'm putting it out there.

Trading CPerez to NYMets for Zack Wheeler-SP.

Trading CPerez to SF for Gary Brown-OF, and Clayton Blackburn-SP.
Last edited by homerawayfromhome on Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby GhostofTedCox » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:15 am

Here's my plan: Blow it all up.
By that I mean trade the vets and build with kids.

If doing that offends the whats left of the fanbase: sorry. Go watch Grady and Damon in a slow pitch softball game.

Details:
If it was up to me, I would say goodbye to Antonetti. I think we desperately need opinions and views from somebody outside the organization.
I would keep Manny. I like Manny. He goes into a gunfight every night with a pocket knife.

I would trade Perez (off a career year), Choo (off a comeback year), ACab (unfortunately), and - if the offers are good enough- Vinny Pestano (the best setup man in baseball). I don't think there will be much to setup next year.

It would be worthless to mention targets. However, I would not want any player with much MLB experience, if any. I would want the highest ceiling specs available.
I would not want ANY SS. - The top 3 prospects in our organization could be Lindor, Paulino, and RRod. They all play SS (allegedly) . Surely one of them should be able to figure it out. Donald can play until they're ready.
I would not ask for any RP. - We have plenty in the organization.
We do need to add SP's for next season. We loose Tomlin, but get back Carassco. We will need to force feed somebody. We also will need a DLowe type to eat innings.

By doing the above, the 2013 Indians will be a blend of our younger vets, and the Columbus Clippers. Tough to watch. But I would rather watch kids with a future instead of old Johnny Damon.

The only alternatives to blowing it up are doubling the payroll for FA, or the status quo.
One is unlikely the other is intolerable.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby homerawayfromhome » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:45 am

Another trade I'd look into...

Choo to the Red Sox for Bryce Brentz-OF, and Matt Barnes-SP or Drake Britton-SP and Brandon Workman-SP.
I'd build this deal around Brentz and try to get Barnes or both of Britton and Workman.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:48 am

Here's an interesting little piece from Jon Heyman of CBS Sports today

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-h ... -in-winter

The Indians, resigned to the idea that they won't be able to sign star outfielder Shin-Soo Choo to a contract extension, will listen again to trade offers for Choo this winter.

Indians general manager Chris Antonetti said they have tried to extend Choo "multiple times'' over the past few years, to no avail. Antonetti was asked how much reception he's gotten to the possibility of a multiyear deal, and the GM answered candidly, "None.''

But Antonetti also pointed out that a trade this winter isn't the only possible outcome, as they could also trade him at the deadline next July or let him leave as a free agent after next season and receive draft choices after making a qualifying offer, which Antonetti indicated they will surely make.

The Pirates, Dodgers and Rangers are among teams connected to Choo, a free agent after the 2013 season, at this year's deadline.The Pirates were said unwilling to part with either of their top two pitching prospects, Gerrit Cole or Jameson Taillon.

Nonetheless, Choo's trade value should be fairly high based on him being a five-tool player. Choo, 30, has 15 home runs, 49 RBI and a .286 batting average this year, a comeback season of sorts after 2011, his one subpar season.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:51 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:Another trade I'd look into...

Choo to the Red Sox for Bryce Brentz-OF, and Matt Barnes-SP or Drake Britton-SP and Brandon Workman-SP.
I'd build this deal around Brentz and try to get Barnes or both of Britton and Workman.


Sweet lord...if the Red Sox gave up Brentz AND Barnes for Choo, I'll kiss Chris Antonneti right on the mouth.

But I agree that if the Indians shop Choo, they let it be known it's not going to be a give away.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 am

It's not that I completely disagree with the who should stay and who should go (there are differences which I will offer), it's that the means by which the team can be built needs to be decisive and clear. There are no magic formulas that allow Manny Acta to waive his wand and produce a team that scores 850 runs or create a pitching staff with a cumulative ERA of 3.27. So, that said, the first step iin "building" the Cleveland Indians is an evaluation of the current roster. Here are the "Keepers", the "Maybe's" and the "Departer's" from the 40 Man Roster {(*) denotes minor league start in 2013}:

Pitchers: 3 New Spots Open
Keeper's: Cody Allen RP, Scott Barnes* SP/RP, Carlos Carrasco SP, Nick Hagadone RP, Roberto Hernandez SP, Ubaldo Jimenez SP, Justin Masterson SP, Zach McAllister SP, Chris Perez RP, Vinnie Pestano RP, Esmil Rogers RP, Danny Salazar* RP, Tony Sipp RP, Joe Smith RP
Maybe's: JeanMar Gomez SP, Frank Herrmann RP, Corey Kluber SP/RP,, Chris Seddon RP, Fabio Martinez SP/RP
Departing: David Huff SP, Kevin Slowey SP, Rafael Perez RP

Position Players: 6 New Spots Open
Keeper's: Lou Marson C, Carlos Santana C, Asdrubal Cabrera SS, Lonnie Chisenhall 3B, Juan Diaz* SS, Jason Donald Ut, Jason Kipnis 2B, Michael Brantley OF, Ezequiel Carrera OF, Shin-soo Choo OF,
Maybe's: Lars Anderson* 1B, Matt LaPorta LF/1B, Cord Phelps* 2B, Brett Lillibridge Ut
Departing: Jack Hannahan 3B, Casey Kotchman 1B, Shelley Duncan OF, Vinny Rottino OF, Grady Sizemore OF, Travis Hafner DH.

This amounts to nine players departing from the current forty man roster. This is as close to "blowing it up" as it gets. The Depth Chart w/ back ups will read:

Position Players: 12
C Lou Marson
Carlos Santana/Acquisition/Farm Promotion
1B Carlos Santana
Matt LaPorta/Lars Anderson
2B Jason Kipnis
Cord Phelps/Jason Donald
3B Lonnie Chisenhall
Jason Donald
SS Asdrubal Cabrera
Juan Diaz/Jason Donald
OF Shin-soo Choo
OF Michael Brantley
OF Ezequiel Carrera
Jason Donald/Carlos Santana

Pitchers: 12
SP1 Masterson
SP2 Ubaldo
SP3 Hernandez
SP4 McAllister
SP5 Carrasco
Scotty Barnes/Promotion

C Perez
SU1 Pestano
SU2 Allen
RP1 Smittie
RP2 Hagadone
RP3 Sipp
RP4 Rogers

Other than losing the starting first baseman, Kotchman, and replacing Jack Hannahan at 3B with Lonnie Chisenhall, the Indians would begin the season with an established core of players for each spot with at least one roster spot open for 'the best player available"... IMHO, Chris Perez may be a luxury for the Indians, but, one they can't do without. Choo, on the other hand, could be the most expendable.

That said, here is some background on a deal involving Shin-soo Choo:

The number one problem with trading Choo is that there is no direct replacement, so his spot would have to be filled from the returning player in the trade or from the current minors: Matt LaPorta, Thomas Neal, Tim Fedroff, Nick Weglarz. While it's likely that Carlos Santana and or Jason Donald can fill some or all of the void, moving Santana to OF or just putting LaPorta in LF and LEAVE HIM THERE for more than 11 AB's, might prove to be the answer the Indians are looking for. Another even less desirable option would be to move Kipnis back to the OF ( a move I wouldn't like) and install Cord Phelps at 2B. Phelps is easily the best 2B in the IL, yet, due to his very short and relatively poor visit(s) to the corner of Carnegie and Ontario, he isn't being given consideration. Teams that are in the market w/ a win now profile that would be interested in acquiring Choo may include the Braves, Pirates, DBax, Dodgers, Giants and A's. There may be others. Any thoughts on who from these clubs the Indians could acquire would gratefully recieved.

thoughts?..
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:59 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Here's a cpl moves I'd look into...

Trading Choo to TX for Mike Olt-1b / 3b, Cody Buckel -SP and a cpl others I'd look at from the Rangers ---Luke Jackson-SP, Martin Perez-SP, and Justin Grimm-SP. I'd try to build a deal around Olt or Perez and get a cpl of the others.

Trading CPerez to Cincinnati for Hamilton-SS / CF. Just bc others have targeted Hamilton, doubt Cincinnati trades him. At least I'm putting it out there.

Trading CPerez to NYMets for Zack Wheeler-SP.

Trading CPerez to SF for Gary Brown-OF, and Clayton Blackburn-SP.


I think Choo to SF is also a legit possiblilty, probably moreso than Chris Perez (Wilson should be back next year? or did he have a setback?).

I think Choo would really thrive in SF's spacious park. Melky is gone, Pagan is a FA as well. Pence could move to LF (or back to CF possibly). Think SF could be the top destination.

Yankees would also be up their IMO. Swisher is likely gone. Ichiro was probably just a rental. Gardner has been hurt.

I'm doubt the Mets would move Wheeler for Choo unless he agreeed to an extension, but would be worth a shot.

Pirates would be an interesting team to try and involve as well. Loads of specs. They could try and make a big splash after finally getting to .500 (or at least it would seem they'll get to .500).

Texas would be an interesting spot for him, especially if Hamilton leaves. I'd personally inquire on Andrus. No way would they trade him for Choo alone but if you're gonna blow things up on the Tribe end could get creative (Masterson? Pestano?). Andrus is signed the same length as Cabrera so doesn't get you anything there, but much cheaper. Would make it easier dealing AC as well (so many teams would show interest there).

So many different scenarios.....really depends on just how drastic/crazy CA wants to get this winter....

Would definitely expect it to be a more exciting winter than last for the Tribe...whether that's good or bad, we'll see.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:12 pm

Looks like Matt LaPorta up and Frank Hermann down.

Wonder if LaPorta will get a chance to play himself into consideration for 2013.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby Edible14 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:25 pm

I'm guessing that since this team was set to lose a bit of money this year if ticket sales remained constant from last year (Shapiro said something to this effect), that if they don't cut payroll next year they'll be significantly in the red. Especially if Shapiro/Antonetti/Acta are in charge... there will be no reason to expect the fans to be showing up next year. So I don't think there will be any significant free agent acquisitions. So I'm on board with blowing it up. Here's what I'm thinking.

-Decline the option on Ubaldo, consider keeping Hernandez. Ubaldo is awful at this point, and in no way deserves any additional money from this team. Corey Kluber is a better option. Hernandez... might be worth keeping around. His salary next year is small enough, and if he's still an average to above average pitcher which he was in 2011, I'd be okay with sticking with him and seeing what's left. Rotation needs depth anyway.
-Slowey and Huff DFA'd, possibly brought back on minor league deals if they're willing, but I'm fine just letting them go. Also, Rondon brought back would be nice. Between those three, one or two should be brought back as depth for AAA.
-Keep Carrasco down in AAA to start the year. Control is an issue coming off of TJ surgery, and his wasn't great to begin with. Let him regain focus in AAA for awhile, and bring him up when he's ready to contribute

So for the starting rotation, I have Masterson/Hernandez/McAllister/Kluber/Gomez to start the year in Cleveland. The last three are guys that have spent enough time in AAA and we need to find out what we have. There should be a number of guys in the Columbus rotation getting ready to contribute if they falter. It's not a pretty rotation, but at this point we need to identify what will work out of our farm system and what won't. I'd also look into extending Masterson. He's a good pitcher who might be able to be had somewhat cheap right now. If we can't, he's probably a trade deadline casualty.

The bullpen should be left mostly alone. I'd trade Chris Perez if you can get much for him. I'd also trade Raffy, but I think you'll find almost nothing for him. Signing a couple of journeymen on minor league contracts isn't a bad idea for AAA. We once had Jason Grilli that way, and he's pretty darn good now.

Trade Choo. He's impossible to replace, but I'm not seeing this team contend with the lack of resources to improve and their rotation anyway. Get what you can for him, and hope it's really good.

Resign Hafner. He's going to be cheap, and there's a chance we can flip him at the deadline. Without Choo, that would leave us filling 4 spots (DH, RF, LF, 1B) with current AAA guys who all have significant warts or with bargain bin signings (which I would count Hafner as right now). Hafner is still a good hitter, and there's still some value to be had.

Let go of Kotchman and Hannahan (trade if you can, we need to see Chis now)

It looks ugly:

SP: Masterson/Hernandez/McAllister/Kluber/Gomez
RP: Pestano (CL), Rogers, Allen, Sipp, Raffy (two open spots - long reliever and another righty... Herrman?)
C: Santana, Marson
1B: Lars Anderson*
2B: Kipnis
SS: ACab
3B: Chisenhall
LF: Zeke*
CF: Brantley
RF: LaPorta*
DH: Hafner
Bench: Duncan*, Donald, Canzler*

*Somewhat interchangeable with each other and Goedert, Weglarz, Neal and Rottino

Of course, this completely neglects whatever we'd get back for Perez, Choo and whoever else we can trade. But I'm assuming that most of them would be AA/AAA guys to start with anyway.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby homerawayfromhome » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:30 pm

I think it's obvious, Choo is gone at the end of the season. It's rare the Tribe leaks players availability. I believe it was done to drum up interest and start a bidding war. It's not as if the fans / media didn't realize it, but I think it's partly being done so that when they do move him it does look as if it's another rebuild, rather it would be done for the best interest of the team.

Choo will be in the first round of moves...and there will be plenty of interest.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:36 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:
Choo will be in the first round of moves...and there will be plenty of interest
.


Well apparently the Red Sox are close to stockpiling a few extra prospects and saving millions of dollars in dealing Beckett, Crawford, and Gonzalez (and Punto) to the Dodgers...
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby daingean » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:00 pm

Edible14 wrote:Resign Hafner. He's going to be cheap, and there's a chance we can flip him at the deadline. Without Choo, that would leave us filling 4 spots (DH, RF, LF, 1B) with current AAA guys who all have significant warts or with bargain bin signings (which I would count Hafner as right now). Hafner is still a good hitter, and there's still some value to be had.


I'm of the opinion that Hafner should not be resigned. He cannot play a position and it is hard to justify carrying a guy on the 25 man roster who only plays 110 games. Especially when you have a team constructed like the Indians.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby homerawayfromhome » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:50 pm

I think we will see this team constructed with a player who is solely a DH again. One it ties up the roster spot, two Manny made specific mention of the roster flexibility the team would be afforded by not having a players who is limited to that one role.

Call me crazy but the Tribe could actually have some financial flexibility if it traded Choo ($4.9 mil) CPerez ($4.5 mil) and then let Hernandez ($6 mil), Jimenez ($4.75 mil ---minus opt out) Hannahan ($1.14 mil), RPerez ($2.04 mil) walk. All the above are set for raises next yr excluding Hernandez and Jimenez.

Also, Sizemore $5 mil, Kotchman $3 mil, Hafner $10.25 mil (minus opt out) all come off the books.

All of these combined moves would free near $48 mil to spend, that actual number would drop probably near $40 mil (being generous) bc of the arbitration process. The Tribe would then be financially flexible to consider aggressively pursuing a cpl FA, but also open the team up to add some reasonable talent through other trades or even a salary dump / type deal like Soriano for instance.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby indians1 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:18 am

i keep reading "don't blow it up, don't blow it up" I think the FO has to be blown up. One of the earlier posts said the other teams have deficiencies and that we aren't that far away.

The indians can't compete for the division. They can hang around for a while but talent wins out in baseball.

The chisox and tigers may have weaknesses but they do have very good power hitting guys in the middle of their lineups that strike fear into the opposing pitcher. They also have an ACE at the top of their rotation.

The indians have neither of those two ingredients. Their pitching is abysmal. How can anybody think with a little tinkering that this team can win next year?

Keith Law said last year that this team was still a few years away and disagreed big time with the ubaldo trade. He was right.

The indians screwed themselves by not maximizing the return on pomeranz and white which is even more magnified by the piss poor returns we have received in the cliff lee and cc sabathia trades.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby artgold » Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:07 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:I think it's obvious, Choo is gone at the end of the season. It's rare the Tribe leaks players availability. I believe it was done to drum up interest and start a bidding war. It's not as if the fans / media didn't realize it, but I think it's partly being done so that when they do move him it does look as if it's another rebuild, rather it would be done for the best interest of the team.

Choo will be in the first round of moves...and there will be plenty of interest.


I think Choo might have a lot of trade value right this moment, especially after the Giants lost Melky Cabrera.

Choo would be a good SF deal from the Giants perspective, both as a talent fit and get support from the large Asian population out here.

I'd see if I could get them to nibble with a waiver claim, and see if I could get pitchers Clayton Blackburn and Kyle Crick, along with OFer Gary Brown.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby Edible14 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:17 am

daingean wrote:
Edible14 wrote:Resign Hafner. He's going to be cheap, and there's a chance we can flip him at the deadline. Without Choo, that would leave us filling 4 spots (DH, RF, LF, 1B) with current AAA guys who all have significant warts or with bargain bin signings (which I would count Hafner as right now). Hafner is still a good hitter, and there's still some value to be had.


I'm of the opinion that Hafner should not be resigned. He cannot play a position and it is hard to justify carrying a guy on the 25 man roster who only plays 110 games. Especially when you have a team constructed like the Indians.


I don't think the Indians really should have too much of a problem carrying a DH, there's 4 bench spots and some of the guys we'll have on the field will be utility types anyway. As much as it would be interesting to see the Indians just straight up promote some combination of Zeke/Canzler/LaPorta/Anderson/Goedert/Rottino and have them take up the 3 corner spots, DH and a bench spot, I just don't think that's consistent with their approach of the past few years. I suspect that they'll actually sign a bunch of Cunningham/Spillbourghs types, but my hope is that they'll AT LEAST tone down that practice after the spectacular failures that that strategy brought on this year. In my scenario, Hafner is the only such player being brought back (as opposed to Lillibridge, Hannahan, Kotchman, etc.), and I think if you had to choose one Hafner would be that guy. He's still a good hitter (2nd best wOBA on the team), and he's a guy that's been here awhile.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:51 am

@ artgold...

I'd trade Choo to SF for that, I actually had proposed a similar trade in the MLB trade deadline posts forum.
I really like Crick who was a 1 st rd pk a yr ago. Blackburn is also a very good arm and Gary Brown will be a good ML OF.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:17 am

@ Hermie13...

I agree the Yanx will have interest in Choo, as will a number of teams but frankly, I just didn't see many prospects on the NYY that intrigued me. Some of their top pitching prospects are hurt right now.

I do think CPerez is still a real possibility with SF bc Wilson could still be out until late next season and they came calling, Choo could be the more likely target however.

Also, by moving Choo and CPerez and injecting now talent into the org. as well as making a cpl other tough decisions the Tribe could be in position to actually pick up a few FA. I'm sure teams will way over pay to lock up some of the guys out there but Id still try to take a look at guys like Francisco Liriano, Anibal Sanchez, Joe Saunders, Shawn Marcum. I realize 2/3 of those guys will be way out of price range for the Tribe but if the Tribe gets creative and frees money up it could / should consider making a run at a guy like Sanchez who could help front the rotation for several yrs. I doubt they do, even Joe Saunders would be a solid add for perspective sake he made $6 mil this season.
I don't think a major rebuild is in order. The Tribe must get NOW talent back in any deal and they must free up money from guys like Slowey, Hannahan, RPerez, Hafner, Sizemore, and one of Hernandez / Jimenez or BOTH. Like I posted earlier the Tribe would free about $40 mil by moving all of these guys (minus arb raises for others).
There could be a number of guys not offered arb that are worth looking into.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby Edible14 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:06 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Also, by moving Choo and CPerez and injecting now talent into the org. as well as making a cpl other tough decisions the Tribe could be in position to actually pick up a few FA. I'm sure teams will way over pay to lock up some of the guys out there but Id still try to take a look at guys like Francisco Liriano, Anibal Sanchez, Joe Saunders, Shawn Marcum. I realize 2/3 of those guys will be way out of price range for the Tribe but if the Tribe gets creative and frees money up it could / should consider making a run at a guy like Sanchez who could help front the rotation for several yrs. I doubt they do, even Joe Saunders would be a solid add for perspective sake he made $6 mil this season.


If they trade Choo and Perez, let's be completely honest. They're not contending next year. So picking up a free agent on a one-year deal at anything other than bargain bin prices would be a waste of time and money in my eyes. They expected to lose a little bit of money this year at $65M (according to Shapiro), and I suspect they've taken a bit of a bath given attendance. I'm thinking payroll next year tops out at $55M, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was lower. If they keep those guys they'll probably be around $35-$40M just in arby money and will have close to nothing available to spend on free agents.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:56 pm

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread... it's not if..it's when the Indians are going to trade Shin-soo Choo..

Returning to my previous post, I'll start with the SF Giants: The SF Giants are clearly a "high priority" target for a move involving Choo after the Melky Mess. The Giants just recently called up Francisco Peguaro to make his ML debut as a starting OF'er.. Nothing says desperation like inserting a rookie into a pressure role during the height of a pennant race... Also, the Giants allegedly have some interest in a FA pickup from the DBax (Pearce?).. but that may be a smoke screen as the DBax have announced that Justin Upton has cleared waivers and has been claimed by an unknown team. The Giants need for an OF'er fits well with Upton in as much as he handles lefties and righties about equally..

The reaction to the Dodgers flexing their financial muscle may spur the Giants to make at least one, and possibly more than one move. The Giants could also use a back of the pen type reliever to bolster their pen by by committee "hodge podge" making a package of Choo (will be traded) and Perez (hopefully, the Indians retain him) seem like a perfect fit... The Giants have a number of interesting near ML'ers, MLB ready prospects and perhaps on guy that is currently coming off surgery that could be of interest to the indians. The list of names includes:

Brandon Belt
Gary Brown
Chris Heston
Roger Kieschnick
Kyle Krick
Seth Rosin
Eric Surkamp

While it would be doubtful the SF Giants would make a new hole (trade Belt) to fix a different one (OF), a deal over the off season could be possible. If the Indians do their homework, get it right and or get lucky, having Gary Brown, Kyle Krick and, who should be the Indians # 1 target (given the above caveat), Eric Surkamp w/ Chief Wahoo on their sleeves would be a HUGE infusion of impact talent..

Comment..


Next up.. the Dbax..
Last edited by GeronimoSon on Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby Prosecutor » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:10 am

There are three possibilites with Choo..

1) Trade him this winter
2) Trade him next July
3) Keep him all year, let him walk, and get compensatory draft picks. I'd prefer 1) or 2) so at least we know what we're getting.

If they get a good offer this winter they should do it. That way they won't take the risk that Choo has a repeat of his 2011 season next year or gets injured, thereby minimizing his value at the trade deadline. If they don't get fair value, keep him and hope he has a big first half next year.

Chris Perez should be traded. He's the Indians' only All-Star and he's coming off a very good season. They have two young, cheap, closers-in-waiting in Pestano and Allen, with a lot of talented right-handed relief pitchers in the farm system. Trade from a position of strength when the value is high.

The targets of the Choo and Perez trades should be young, projectable starting pitchers and right-handed bats. Mainly the pitchers.

If a first baseman isn't obtained in the Choo and Perez trades they should move Santana to first and make Marson the every day catcher. They have nobody in the farm system who is ready to play first base in the majors or even close. I have no faith whatsoever in LaPorta or Lars Anderson.

I'd let Zeke Carerra and Fedroff battle it out for the left field job if they don't get a guy in the Choo/Perez trades.

Whether they keep Ubaldo and Fausto Carnandez depends on who they get in the Choo/Perez deals. These guys should be considered place warmers who can eat innings while the young starters on the farm develop. Carrasco and Kluber should start next year, so my rotation would be Masterson, McAlister, Carrasco, Kluber, and Ubaldo. Hernandez is 32 and his ERA has been over 5.00 four of the last five years. He has no future here. At least Ubaldo may have a strong first half like Lowe did this year and we can move him at the deadline for a decent prospect.

If we get a ML ready young starter for Choo we can put him in for Kluber. By the way, I like Kluber after watching his last two starts. He has good stuff. In his last two starts he only gave up one earned run in 10 innings and that was a home run to Cespedes, who's leading the AL in batting since the All-Star break. Before that he was among the IL leaders in K's. He still has some development before he's a finished product, but the raw material is there. Same goes for Carrasco.

The next wave of starters at Columbus would be Gomez, Rondon, Barnes, McFarland, and whoever they get for Choo or Perez.

Dump Hafner, Hannahan, Duncan, and Kotchman. Donald and Lillibridge can battle for the UIF job. Sign Grady to a minor league contract. If he makes it through spring training healthy he can play left field as long as he's able.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby daingean » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:31 am

Prosecutor wrote:
If a first baseman isn't obtained in the Choo and Perez trades they should move Santana to first and make Marson the every day catcher. They have nobody in the farm system who is ready to play first base in the majors or even close. I have no faith whatsoever in LaPorta or Lars Anderson.


I would say if they don't get a RF in the trades of Choo/CPerez then Santana should be moved there because we have nobody in the near farm system that can play RF on a daily basis. In fact, why waste Santana's arm at 1B. I actually believe a move like this full time will improve the team in several directions. I think Marson is a better defensive catcher and playing C every day will give the pitchers a better target and frame. Santana in RF will give us the RF and free him up to be a better hitter as I think the mental game of catching is holding him back offensively. As for 1B, we have guys like LaPorta, Anderson and Canzler which may not be good but they are better than the difference between Choo and his replacement (i.e. Cunningham).
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby Rocky55 » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:05 pm

Paulie C speculates in his "Lazy Sunday" column about the possibility of trading Asdrubal to the DBacks. Names mentioned included Bauer, Bradley, Skaggs & Corbin. Would we trade Asdrubal for Skaggs & Corbin? Would AZ? Both guys are young LHP's with great success in the PCL & a bit of MLB experience. Both would/should be in the Tribe's rotation out of Spring Training. If we could also pry Krick away from SF in a Choo deal & get some kind of decent RH bat for Perez that would go a long way into making this a re-load situation rather than a complete blowup/rebuild. Krick wouldn't be immediate help but would become our top SP spec right away, is pretty polished, & should move quickly through the system.

Just reporting, none of this my ideas, interesting conversation though.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby GhostofTedCox » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:51 pm

I think the Indians would be missing the boat if they wait till the off season to figure out what happened. Trades are being made every day and players are being placed on waivers.

Buyers now tend to overpay in hopes of making the playoffs.

Old timers like me will remember in 1983 the Indians sent Len Barker to the Braves in August for PTBNL. They turned out to be Brett Butler and Brook Jacoby.

If the Indians could fill even one hole on the roster before the official off season it would be a great head start. They could then prioritize what's left and determine a FA strategy.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:25 pm

I'd place just about the entire roster on waivers and see what kind of deals may be out there, and I'd ask for the moon.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby Prosecutor » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:34 pm

daingean wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:
If a first baseman isn't obtained in the Choo and Perez trades they should move Santana to first and make Marson the every day catcher. They have nobody in the farm system who is ready to play first base in the majors or even close. I have no faith whatsoever in LaPorta or Lars Anderson.


I would say if they don't get a RF in the trades of Choo/CPerez then Santana should be moved there because we have nobody in the near farm system that can play RF on a daily basis. In fact, why waste Santana's arm at 1B. I actually believe a move like this full time will improve the team in several directions. I think Marson is a better defensive catcher and playing C every day will give the pitchers a better target and frame. Santana in RF will give us the RF and free him up to be a better hitter as I think the mental game of catching is holding him back offensively. As for 1B, we have guys like LaPorta, Anderson and Canzler which may not be good but they are better than the difference between Choo and his replacement (i.e. Cunningham).


No way I'm going into next season with LaPorta, Anderson or Canzler as the 1st baseman. Canzler is 32 and has never hit in the bigs. LaPorta is 27 and has failed three times, soon to be four. Anderson can't hit AAA pitching.

Santana is already a first baseman and has played the position in the bigs. AFAIK he has never played a game in the outfield in his life. The Tribe can get a right fielder in a trade or just sign one. There is a lot of money that will be freed up by dumping Sizemore, Lowe, Hafner, Choo, and Perez.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby timdav » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:13 pm

If the Dolans won't allow Shapiro/etc. enough payroll budget to hire the best scouts...then, it's on them...the owners.

But, since scouting personnel budgets aren't made public...I guess we'll never know whether our scouting department has had mostly bad drafts because the front office hires the wrong people, or they can't hire the best scouts for the Indians organization because they don't have enough budget to be able to afford the very best.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby daingean » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:02 am

Prosecutor wrote:[
No way I'm going into next season with LaPorta, Anderson or Canzler as the 1st baseman. Canzler is 32 and has never hit in the bigs. LaPorta is 27 and has failed three times, soon to be four. Anderson can't hit AAA pitching.

Santana is already a first baseman and has played the position in the bigs. AFAIK he has never played a game in the outfield in his life. The Tribe can get a right fielder in a trade or just sign one. There is a lot of money that will be freed up by dumping Sizemore, Lowe, Hafner, Choo, and Perez.


Unless the Indians get a quality RF in a trade/FA signing, there is no one that can play RF for them on a daily basis in the upper mindors. Maybe Neal but he'd need another year. Plus I am not sure Santana is going to produce like a 1B (he's a plus bat for C and a reasonable bat for RF....) so we can attempt to sign a 1B which should be easier than a RF this off season. With some winterball, I think Carlos can become a competent RF.

Plus Canzler is 26 not 32.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby timdav » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:34 am

The Indians have a lot of holes. Can't see how they even come close to filling them all in this coming off-season....but, hope they some how, some way, make decent progress.

Assuming they trade Choo and Chris Perez...they need a 1b, LF, RF, DH, a couple competent starting pitchers, and a right-handed setup veteran.

Maybe they have 2 or 3 of their guys already in their system...hope so.

However, that's 7 key pieces to say the least. Ouch!
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby Prosecutor » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:04 am

Daingean, I agree we have nobody in the minors that can play RF if Choo is dealt. But I don't think putting Santana out there is the answer. I can see the argument - he has a strong arm and he may not hit well enough to play 1B. However, he's slow as hell and I don't like guys with no speed in the outfield - they give up a lot of extra base hits in the gaps and they tend to play deeper so a lot of bloops fall in front of them. Also, if he can't hit well enough for 1B then he can't hit well enough for RF.

Why would you put a slow guy who's never played OF and who doesn't hit much in RF? If he hits, then play him at 1B.

Santana's lack of speed isn't much of a factor at 1B. He does a good job digging throws out of the dirt from his experience as a a catcher. Sorry, I just can't picture him in RF and I am 99% sure the Indians won't even consider it.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:44 am

Continuing on from my previous post, the Az DBax are next on this short list....

The DBax have just traded away Joe Saunders *plus some cash and have received reliever Matt Lindstrom and a low level player to be named later.. Who that is, is immaterial.. What is material is that the DBax appear to be giving up the ghost for this season as they are in no position to challenge for the division or have a realistic shot at getting one of the wild cards. In short, there would NOT be a trade between the Indians and DBax with the sense of urgency seen with other teams on the short list.. The DBax may be a team the Indians have serious discussions with over the Hot Stove part of the baseball season..

So, who are the guys the DBax have that may be of interest?.. It's easy to see, Trevor Bauer is the DBax primary stud in the minors and will not trade him.. With Bauer being conidered persona non-grata as far as the Indians are concerned, the following list of players may be of interest:

Archie Bradley.. Clearly a stud FOR SP in the making.. he's require an overwhelming return from the Indians to land..
Matt Davidson.. A young talented corner IF'er with athleticism. He has a small sampling of ML experience. He's the goods..
Jonathan Griffin.. 1B.. tall as can be.. hits with prodigious power.. limited athletically and blocked at the ML level..
Wade Miley.. This lefty has made his ML debut and has been successful.. exactly what the Indians are looking for..
Gerrado Parra.. has a HOWITZER for an arm.. hits w/ some power. A defensive GG'er, and most likely a throw in...
Stryker Trahan.. very young catching prospect that has a chance to be as good as any backstop in the minors..
Ryan Wheeler.. Like Matt Davidson, a yound talented corner IF'er with athleticism.

If all of these guys.. whatever it would take to pry Archie Bradley would be worth the effort. The two corner IF'ers and Gerrardo Parra for Choo and a "future SS" not named Lindor would be an interesting discussion..

Next up.. the Dodgers...
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:47 am

The more I look at this team, I think blow it up!
I'm moving Masterson, ACab, CPerez, Choo and Smith all in trades.

Here's a cpl names I throw out there...
Masterson to Boston for Bryce Brentz, Matt Barnes and Brandon Workman.
ACab to AZ for Patrick Corbin and Gerardo Parra
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:47 pm

It's worth discussion that a total "blowup" of sorts is worth a potential infusion of talent into the minors again, and perhaps resetting things that the Ubaldo trade might have messed up.

But I read some of these trade ideas, and while we all dream of dealing high, it's worth noting that some teams just aren't willing to deal enough players to make it worth the Indians time. I just hope people don't set themselves up for a let down if the Indians make a few trades and the return is underwhelming.

Just something to think about. It's not as if CA has done much to inspire confidence that he will get worthy value. Plus, there is always the outside chance that the GM position is in question.
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Re: Building the 2013 Cleveland Indians

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:46 pm

Guess this could go in here, I saw the Yankees DFA'd Brandon Laird today. Turns 25 in a few weeks, but I can see CA having interest in another 1B/3B/DH type to stash in C-bus. Not much of a prospect by any means, but who knows what Antonetti is thinking anymore?
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