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Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

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Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:20 pm

Another of the "fire someone to make it look like we're doing something" move.

Yeah, the pitching has stunk, but it's hard to pin than on Scott I'd say
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby Edible14 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:29 pm

Every single starting pitcher has gotten worse this year. In some cases, significantly so. It's a move that absolutely had to be made. If as any coach has any ability to make his players better/worse, Radinsky has obviously not done enough to get more out of his starters. We need a coach who can. Otherwise... why even hire coaches?

Already I'm hearing the clucking of "sacrificial lamb", but I don't think anyone expects that media scrutiny of Acta/Antonetti/Dolan is going to die down because they got rid of their pitching coach. I severely doubt that's the motive.
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:20 pm

Both glad and sad to see Radinsky go. He NEVER should have been given the pitching coach job this winter (as I and others said multiple times this winter). He needed to stay in the bullpen where he was a phenomenal bullpen coach. Tribe's pen ranked 5th in the AL last year...this year it's dead last 14th in the AL, with much of the same group. Sure it's likely the big drop had nothing to do with Radinsky but not a big believer in coincidences.

Rotation been worse overall with a half run increase (though just 10th last year to 12th this year). Overall Tribe ranked 10th last year as a pitching staff, they are 13th this year. Not sure many pitching coaches would do better with this staff (though do think Rad was the wrong guy for the job again and in over his head), but team did get worse so someone takes the fall. The past 2 weeks though have been brutal and very few adjustments seem to have been made with the starters, so definitely understand the move.

The regression of Masterson was the one big black eye I think. No one else has been a huge surprise. Was obviously hoping Ubaldo would get fixed, but Belcher didn't do any better.

I do like that Niebla got the call up. Thought he should have been the guy that got the job this winter if the Indians didn't look outside the organization.
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:56 am

...Already I'm hearing the clucking of "sacrificial lamb", but I don't think anyone expects that media scrutiny of Acta/Antonetti/Dolan is going to die down because they got rid of their pitching coach. I severely doubt that's the motive...


This latest round of "clucking" originated from the overstuffed mouth of Terry "I can't golf" Pluto:

..notes on the Indians from Terry Pluto of the Cleveland Plain Dealer...

Indians CEO Paul Dolan told Pluto that the team’s recent losing streak was “so dismal” and "the most disappointing stretch of baseball" since the Dolans bought the team before the 2000 season.
The Indians rank last in MLB in attendance (they average 20,321 fans per game) and their finances are “not particularly good” this season, Dolan acknowledged. The Indians are open to minority investors, but the franchise is “not for sale,” Dolan said.
Indians president Mark Shapiro and general manager Chris Antonetti never brought up the subject of firing manager Manny Acta, Dolan said. However, the CEO declined to comment on the future of Acta or others beyond 2012. "We assess everyone at the end of every season," Dolan told Pluto. "As painful as this has been, I don't want to get into some knee-jerk reactions.”


Mark it down, August 9th, 2012.. The frigging morons that comprise the Cleveland Media now has a NEW TARGET to lambaste, eschew, cajole, coerce and, at the end of the day FIRE THE MANAGER.. because it's worked so many times in the past!! (sic). From this date forward, stories indicating the potential firing of the manager.. the potential firing of the manager that won't happen.. the mistakes by this manager should get him fired.. the lack of comment by X-Person in authority about firing the manager.. the dreaded 'vote of confidence' thereby not requiring firing the manager etc.. etc.. ad infinitum will show up until the manager is actually fired.

This happens to every Field Boss in Cleveland.. Once the "pecking party" begins (and it has).. there is no end to it.. Without learning from history, you're doomed to repeat it..
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:59 am

henpeck piling on: regarding the 'fire the manager'..

Dennis Boy-o-lof has gone onto 92.3 FM radio and has added his two cents regarding firing the manager.. the comments, of course, were picked up and reported by the Cleveland Plain Dull....
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:42 am

I'd fire the manager.

Going by Acta's Throw-Scotty-Under-The-Bus comments & the advisability of the recent Cbus call ups to be coached by guys from Cbus who they are used to, I'd let the back-stabbing shitehead take some of the medicine he prescribed. The whole team with a few exceptions has played like shit for months.

Four guys from Rad's bullpen have played better than anyone on the team except maybe Brantley & maybe Choo. It took Acta a year & a half to get those guys in the right spots in the batting order & then he moved Choo out of the leadoff spot. Genius.

Bring up Sarby.
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:34 pm

Rocky55 wrote:I'd fire the manager.

Going by Acta's Throw-Scotty-Under-The-Bus comments & the advisability of the recent Cbus call ups to be coached by guys from Cbus who they are used to, I'd let the back-stabbing shitehead take some of the medicine he prescribed. The whole team with a few exceptions has played like shit for months.

Four guys from Rad's bullpen have played better than anyone on the team except maybe Brantley & maybe Choo. It took Acta a year & a half to get those guys in the right spots in the batting order & then he moved Choo out of the leadoff spot. Genius.

Bring up Sarby.


First off it's not Rad's bullpen, it's Miller's bullpen. Rad's rotation has been crap all year. Only guy that's taken a step forward was McAllister (who pitched mostly in columbus under Niebla).

I'm all for Sarby coming up, but not on managing...at least not yet (get rid of Smith first IMO).
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:26 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
...Already I'm hearing the clucking of "sacrificial lamb", but I don't think anyone expects that media scrutiny of Acta/Antonetti/Dolan is going to die down because they got rid of their pitching coach. I severely doubt that's the motive...


This latest round of "clucking" originated from the overstuffed mouth of Terry "I can't golf" Pluto:

..notes on the Indians from Terry Pluto of the Cleveland Plain Dealer...

Indians CEO Paul Dolan told Pluto that the team’s recent losing streak was “so dismal” and "the most disappointing stretch of baseball" since the Dolans bought the team before the 2000 season.
The Indians rank last in MLB in attendance (they average 20,321 fans per game) and their finances are “not particularly good” this season, Dolan acknowledged. The Indians are open to minority investors, but the franchise is “not for sale,” Dolan said.
Indians president Mark Shapiro and general manager Chris Antonetti never brought up the subject of firing manager Manny Acta, Dolan said. However, the CEO declined to comment on the future of Acta or others beyond 2012. "We assess everyone at the end of every season," Dolan told Pluto. "As painful as this has been, I don't want to get into some knee-jerk reactions.”


Mark it down, August 9th, 2012.. The frigging morons that comprise the Cleveland Media now has a NEW TARGET to lambaste, eschew, cajole, coerce and, at the end of the day FIRE THE MANAGER.. because it's worked so many times in the past!! (sic). From this date forward, stories indicating the potential firing of the manager.. the potential firing of the manager that won't happen.. the mistakes by this manager should get him fired.. the lack of comment by X-Person in authority about firing the manager.. the dreaded 'vote of confidence' thereby not requiring firing the manager etc.. etc.. ad infinitum will show up until the manager is actually fired.

This happens to every Field Boss in Cleveland.. Once the "pecking party" begins (and it has).. there is no end to it.. Without learning from history, you're doomed to repeat it..


What the hell is wrong with Terry Pluto? Pluto is the only person worth reading on the CPD site.

And mark down 8-9-12 as the date Cleveland media has been calling for Acta's job? You clearly don't pay attention to Cleveland media outside of "print". ESPN 850 WKNR Cleveland and 92.3 The Fan have both been calling for Acta's job for some time now. Tony Rizzo for one has been calling for it since around the All Star break. Bruce Hooley as well.
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:44 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:I'd fire the manager.

Going by Acta's Throw-Scotty-Under-The-Bus comments & the advisability of the recent Cbus call ups to be coached by guys from Cbus who they are used to, I'd let the back-stabbing shitehead take some of the medicine he prescribed. The whole team with a few exceptions has played like shit for months.

Four guys from Rad's bullpen have played better than anyone on the team except maybe Brantley & maybe Choo. It took Acta a year & a half to get those guys in the right spots in the batting order & then he moved Choo out of the leadoff spot. Genius.

Bring up Sarby.


First off it's not Rad's bullpen, it's Miller's bullpen. Rad's rotation has been crap all year. Only guy that's taken a step forward was McAllister (who pitched mostly in columbus under Niebla).

I'm all for Sarby coming up, but not on managing...at least not yet (get rid of Smith first IMO).

If Niebla gets credit for McAllister, Radinsky gets credit for the pen. I'd actually go along with that. Radinsky coached the pen guys while they were developing. Perez & Pestano are his. Smith & Sipp have regressed from when he coached them last year. They should have left him as Bullpen coach.

Acta has done nothing but get in the way. If a starter is struggling, if a bad call happens, if one of our guys gets plunked, he sits in the dugout like a garden gnome.

I don't like the knee-jerk firing of coaches/managers but Acta's kiss the FO butts over everthing else is annoying. If Radinsky did a shitty job with the pitchers it was no worse than the job that Acta did.
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby Bearcatbob » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:50 pm

"They should have left him as Bullpen coach."

Now there is the truth in the whole subject.
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:01 pm

Rocky55 wrote:If Niebla gets credit for McAllister, Radinsky gets credit for the pen. I'd actually go along with that. Radinsky coached the pen guys while they were developing. Perez & Pestano are his. Smith & Sipp have regressed from when he coached them last year. They should have left him as Bullpen coach.

Joe Smith is having a good season... perfectly in line with what he's done throughout the rest of his career. In fact, the one thing that has changed over the course of his career is that he's become very effective against left-handers, something that most guys with his pitching style never do. I'm not sure why anyone would find fault with him not being able to repeat his 2011 career year. Half the relievers in baseball are completely unpredictable from one year to the next, yet he's posted an OPS+ over 100 all six years.

Acta has done nothing but get in the way. If a starter is struggling, if a bad call happens, if one of our guys gets plunked, he sits in the dugout like a garden gnome.

I don't like the knee-jerk firing of coaches/managers but Acta's kiss the FO butts over everthing else is annoying. If Radinsky did a shitty job with the pitchers it was no worse than the job that Acta did.


It's nice to know that you're not a knee-jerk reactionary about firing managers... you just want to fire Acta because he's not a knee-jerk reactionary. Firing managers because they don't argue with umpires enough is why I don't listen to sports talk radio.
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:53 pm

Rocky55 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:I'd fire the manager.

Going by Acta's Throw-Scotty-Under-The-Bus comments & the advisability of the recent Cbus call ups to be coached by guys from Cbus who they are used to, I'd let the back-stabbing shitehead take some of the medicine he prescribed. The whole team with a few exceptions has played like shit for months.

Four guys from Rad's bullpen have played better than anyone on the team except maybe Brantley & maybe Choo. It took Acta a year & a half to get those guys in the right spots in the batting order & then he moved Choo out of the leadoff spot. Genius.

Bring up Sarby.


First off it's not Rad's bullpen, it's Miller's bullpen. Rad's rotation has been crap all year. Only guy that's taken a step forward was McAllister (who pitched mostly in columbus under Niebla).

I'm all for Sarby coming up, but not on managing...at least not yet (get rid of Smith first IMO).

If Niebla gets credit for McAllister, Radinsky gets credit for the pen. I'd actually go along with that. Radinsky coached the pen guys while they were developing. Perez & Pestano are his. Smith & Sipp have regressed from when he coached them last year. They should have left him as Bullpen coach.

Acta has done nothing but get in the way. If a starter is struggling, if a bad call happens, if one of our guys gets plunked, he sits in the dugout like a garden gnome.

I don't like the knee-jerk firing of coaches/managers but Acta's kiss the FO butts over everthing else is annoying. If Radinsky did a shitty job with the pitchers it was no worse than the job that Acta did.


As I said before, agree that Radinsky should have been left as bullpen coach. I was very adamant about that last fall/winter. Felt like the Tribe just promoted him cause they felt like they had too instead of bringing in a better option.

Reason I was both glad and sad seeing Rad fired is a change was needed in regards to pitching coach...but I really wish they could have just sent him back out to the bullpen. Sure it'd be viewed as a demotion but bullpens are so important in today's game vs 20 years ago that it really shouldn't be viewed as one. A good bullpen coach is as valuable as a good hitting coach.

Very few managers don't kiss their FO's butts though, at least in front of the camera. Valentine and Guillen don't, but really wouldn't want either of those guys here.
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby indians1 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:12 pm

I don'' t understand the dolan's statement that they don't want to make knee-jerk reactions.

For the record, i think manny acta is an average to above average manager. I think manager of a baseball team matters as little as any of the major sports. (baseball, basketball, and football). It comes down to talent and the dolans need to realize that they have given this whole regime 12+ years to rebuild this team.

in 2002, they made the right decision to break it apart and rebuild. The "blueprint for success" as quoted by shapiro has been a colossal failure. This organization was supposed to be built on pitching, and not one impact starter has come from our drafts and developed.

The pitching staff did regress this year and radinsky should take some of the blame, but the fact is that eventually this was going to happen. We may have not lost 8 and 10-2 in this losing streak but we probably would have lost 5-2 or 6-2 instead. because we didn't have any impact starters on this team. Our rotation is made up of a bunch of 4 and 5 starters with a possible #3.

How do we compete with detroit and chicago with our rotation? Antonetti had a chance to trade chris perez, choo, and masterson and get some players that could be ready for next year or 2014.

If the FO thinks we are going to compete next year with masterson and ubaldo as our #1 and #2 pitchers, then be prepared for another late season crash like this year and last year.

Brad Grant for all the props he gets because he isn't john mirabelli, still is not drafting good enough. John mirabelli was reassigned to head the latin american scouting and development. What has he done in 4 years there. He basically has worked for 12 years in this organization has is horrible at this job and the dolans don't want to make a "knee jerk decision".

The dolans have to fire shapiro and antonetti and start over. They have to hire a team president that knows how to build a baseball team. Maybe you do what lerner did with holmgren and hire a terry ryan type guy that knows how to spot talent.

If the dolans aren't going to sell the team, they have to hire competent management that can produce a solid farm system. That is how we are going to compete. Not going out and spending alot of money on free agents. For all the talk of josh willingham, we still would have collapsed because of our starting pitching and the horrible evaluation of what our rotation needed to compete.
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:20 pm

92.3 Fire Acta from day two of his tenure.. fire antonetti... fire mark shapiro.. dolans sell the team... start over...


Any idea how a team like the Steelers win year in and year out?.

Hint.. they don't go to the "fire the person in charge" card.. Someday the mouth breathers in this town will realize the Charlie Manuels and Bill Belicheks and others weren't the problem..
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby indians1 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:54 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
92.3 Fire Acta from day two of his tenure.. fire antonetti... fire mark shapiro.. dolans sell the team... start over...


Any idea how a team like the Steelers win year in and year out?.

Hint.. they don't go to the "fire the person in charge" card.. Someday the mouth breathers in this town will realize the Charlie Manuels and Bill Belicheks and others weren't the problem..


The steelers also hire competent people to run their organization. The steelers in 40 years have had 3 coaches and with the exception of the 80's has been a dominant franchise. The steelers put out consistently all pro guys that they drafted and developed and didn't trade for or overpay for free agents.

The cleveland indians have been the opposite. They had a good decade in the 90's and have been crap otherwise. In this last decade, this organization has failed to produce on impact bat/pitcher from their drafts. Think about that. Not one impact player from our drafts from this regime since 2001.

This team is worse than they were in 2008 when they rebuilt again. I don't agree that you fire the manager. You can, but the next manager is going to have the same trouble as manny acta did and eric wedge did.

This team was only competitive by trades they could make for having really bad seasons. We got asdrubal, choo, cliff lee, westbrook, hafner, grady, chris perez, mccalister, and others by trades. They all were obtained because the indians were so bad in those years and had to sell off.

Why can' this organization draft guys that have an impact so we don't have to rebuild every few years. Every small market team is going to let guys go to free agency but the good ones replace them with from within. Tampa does it, minnesota did it when they had terry ryan as their GM.

I have never been on the badnwagon for dolan should sell the team, but if he can't hire competent guys to run his team, he should sell. because he will continue to get the label as a cheap owner because none of his draftees are worth a damn.
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby ironmike » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:18 am

Indians14 you posted ... This team was only competitive by trades they could make for having really bad seasons. We got asdrubal, choo, cliff lee, westbrook, hafner, grady, chris perez, mccalister, and others by trades. They all were obtained because the indians were so bad in those years and had to sell off.

You are absolutely correct. Now if they had a competent minor league system and could have added to the group you mentioned it would have created good results.

It starts with developing your own talent, then adding via trades and a few free agents when the time is right.

The guy who should step down is now the most quiet ... Shapiro. The owner has to go too.
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:47 am

GoTribe028 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
...Already I'm hearing the clucking of "sacrificial lamb", but I don't think anyone expects that media scrutiny of Acta/Antonetti/Dolan is going to die down because they got rid of their pitching coach. I severely doubt that's the motive...


This latest round of "clucking" originated from the overstuffed mouth of Terry "I can't golf" Pluto:

..notes on the Indians from Terry Pluto of the Cleveland Plain Dealer...

Indians CEO Paul Dolan told Pluto that the team’s recent losing streak was “so dismal” and "the most disappointing stretch of baseball" since the Dolans bought the team before the 2000 season.
The Indians rank last in MLB in attendance (they average 20,321 fans per game) and their finances are “not particularly good” this season, Dolan acknowledged. The Indians are open to minority investors, but the franchise is “not for sale,” Dolan said.
Indians president Mark Shapiro and general manager Chris Antonetti never brought up the subject of firing manager Manny Acta, Dolan said. However, the CEO declined to comment on the future of Acta or others beyond 2012. "We assess everyone at the end of every season," Dolan told Pluto. "As painful as this has been, I don't want to get into some knee-jerk reactions.”


Mark it down, August 9th, 2012.. The frigging morons that comprise the Cleveland Media now has a NEW TARGET to lambaste, eschew, cajole, coerce and, at the end of the day FIRE THE MANAGER.. because it's worked so many times in the past!! (sic). From this date forward, stories indicating the potential firing of the manager.. the potential firing of the manager that won't happen.. the mistakes by this manager should get him fired.. the lack of comment by X-Person in authority about firing the manager.. the dreaded 'vote of confidence' thereby not requiring firing the manager etc.. etc.. ad infinitum will show up until the manager is actually fired.

This happens to every Field Boss in Cleveland.. Once the "pecking party" begins (and it has).. there is no end to it.. Without learning from history, you're doomed to repeat it..


What the hell is wrong with Terry Pluto? Pluto is the only person worth reading on the CPD site.

And mark down 8-9-12 as the date Cleveland media has been calling for Acta's job? You clearly don't pay attention to Cleveland media outside of "print". ESPN 850 WKNR Cleveland and 92.3 The Fan have both been calling for Acta's job for some time now. Tony Rizzo for one has been calling for it since around the All Star break. Bruce Hooley as well.


Due to the Indians being on the west cost and having nothing more interesting to write about, the Akron Beacon Urinal has decided to provide the readers with double barreled stories today.. So, add Marla RidingHerBroom and Seldom Right Ocker to the "Blow Up the Indians" party... The sad part about the Marla article.. she actually says the Browns are operated / run correctly. She could give Hoynes a run for his money on the least knowledgeable sports writer in town..
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby indians1 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:33 pm

All you do Geronimo is criticize others for justifiably railing on the indians, yet you never point out where they are wrong. all you do is say "blah, blah, and call people whiners.

Many on this board do think the FO or ownership has to change because they are tired of the same type of baseball that we have seen for 12 years under this regime.

This team is worse than they were 4 years ago with after a 2nd rebuild and new guy doing the drafts. This regime was able to provide some stability in the early 2000's to the rotation because they had CC ( a guy drafted by john hart), and the cliff lee trade along with a good year from kevin millwood and fausto carmona. that is about it. Not one impact draft pick from this regime in pitching or position player. Can you explain that geronimo?

Oh that's right, we are just whiners who don't know what we are talking about.

You want to know why oakland and tampa are competing for the playoffs? because they have good pitching. tampa has been more consistent but it isn't like they are offensive jaugernauts. They know how to pitch and they are better at developing their own talent.
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:54 am

Four years ago.. after 130 games.. the Indians were 54 - 66.. four years later in 2012, after 130 games.. the Indians are 54 - 66. It's easy to see that you're 'math' challenged.. and WANT TO BELIEVE the Indians are worse.. but the fact of the matter is, your statement is inaccurate. The only other reasoning behind such a blatant misstatement is that you're whining.. Railing on a misstatement (now proven to be utterly false) is what it is..WHINING.. so, whine away..
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Re: Radsinsky fired, Niebla named Pitching Coach

Postby indians1 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:15 am

again,

if you want to get into semantics, so be it. They may have the same record, but from a talent standpoint, they are worse. You can't debate that point.

And once again, you have shown where keeping shapiro/antonetti will allow this organization to compete for the playoffs and world series.

but if you happy getting to the playoffs once in 12 years, then the indians will be happy to sell tickets to 30,000 more suckers like you.
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