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Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Talk about the Cleveland Indians, Major League Baseball, and other sports.

Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:38 pm

Watched the first half of tonight's game and I wanted to puke.

Santana's swing is just awful. He's swinging under the ball, it seems as if his pitch recognition is off or he's just going up there with no clue what's coming.. he's almost a liability anymore.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Tondo » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:01 am

Meanwhile that old, washed up fart Youkilis is making the difference in the Central... still can't believe we couldn't match the WSox offer
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:03 pm

Tondo wrote:Meanwhile that old, washed up fart Youkilis is making the difference in the Central... still can't believe we couldn't match the WSox offer


While Youk has been huge for the Sox, it's their VASTLY superior pitching to this point that's the difference in the Central.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby ironmike » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:45 pm

Zajac, swinging under the ball? He's pulling off the ball, watch his front shoulder and where is head / eyes finish. He can't stay on the ball to drive it. Last nite on a pitch on the outer half he could not have hit it with a telephone pole.

Of course, Duncan has been doing it his whole career.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:31 pm

Santana should be on the bench, either in Cleveland or Columbus... or maybe Arizona... he is virtually useless right now....
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:52 pm

Hafner is in the midst of a 4-29 hot streak. He could drop a mediocre bunt and get on base but would prefer a nice K...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby JP_Frost » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:02 pm

Jesus, man, lighten up.

No, they aren't playing great, but no sense in bashing every player.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:19 pm

I am only bashing the guys who have sucked for a solid month. Didn't bash Masterson since he occasionally is good. Jeez I didn't realize we aren't supposed to be frustrated with these guys...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:48 pm

Great AB by Kipnis!!!
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:54 pm

Oh...
My...
GOD!!!
Carlos has left the yard!!!
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby go_tribe » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:56 pm

Masterson didnt have it tonight and still was able to give them a chance to stay in the game. The 5th inning could have been a disaster but Rogers comes through huge to bail out Masty.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Tondo » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:59 pm

Very nice Inning...what the doctor ordered

So Masterson "kept his team in the game", but Tomlin, who pitched a bette overall game imho, is the next Sowers....makes sense :wink
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:01 pm

martyinnewyork wrote:Oh...
My...
GOD!!!
Carlos has left the yard!!!


Back-to-back RBI singles by lefties off lefties, Santana's first HR since mid-May, first RH all year....

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby JP_Frost » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:05 pm

Damn, Santana's was a monster shot.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:07 pm

Nice DP!!!
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:19 pm

Tondo wrote:Very nice Inning...what the doctor ordered

So Masterson "kept his team in the game", but Tomlin, who pitched a bette overall game imho, is the next Sowers....makes sense :wink


Tomlin did have the better game. Easier to be forgiving to a guy like Masterson though who's now got a 3.66 in the last 2 years (dating back to July 20th of 2010) in over 400 innings....as compared to Tomlin who's ERA is over 5.30 since last June. :razz
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:23 pm

Tondo- who made the comment on Tomlin being the next Sowers? Maybe I missed it...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:28 pm

martyinnewyork wrote:Tondo- who made the comment on Tomlin being the next Sowers? Maybe I missed it...


It's in the Tomlin thread...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Tondo » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:41 pm

It's in the Tomlin thread....I really dont get how anyone who has seen Tomlin pitch over the past 3 years can compare him to Sowers....Tomlin earned every start and nobody expected him to stick, Sowers shuttled between Cleveland and AAA for 4 years 5 years because they wanted him to be who he never was....Tomlin otoh is who nobody thought he was. Again, his 23-17 record is no coincidence

To put it into perspective: Tomlin has better career record, BB/ratio and WHIP than Justin Masterson

No, Im not saying he's as good as Masterson, I'm just stressing how consistent this guy is and that is VERY valuable
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby JP_Frost » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:47 pm

Maybe we should take this to the proper thread, but the resemblance between Sowers and Tomlin is that they both have subpar stuff and rely on command. Obviously Tomlin is superior in that department, but he walks a fine line every start, because if his command isn't there he gets shelled.

Also, Tomlin has been consistently mediocre to average. Don't know why some people have hyped him up on this site.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:52 pm

I believe it was Prosecutor who made the Sowers comp, not Go_Tribe...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Tondo » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:55 pm

Here are 4 typical Tomlin games:

5 IP, 4 ERs
6 IP, 2 ERs
7 IP, 3 ERs
6 IP, 4 ERs

that'd be 13 ERs in 24 IP with an ERA between 4.5 and 5...you know what all those 4 games have in common though? Your team has a fair chance to win every game....last time I checked that was pretty important
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:25 am

Tondo wrote:Here are 4 typical Tomlin games:

5 IP, 4 ERs
6 IP, 2 ERs
7 IP, 3 ERs
6 IP, 4 ERs

that'd be 13 ERs in 24 IP with an ERA between 4.5 and 5...you know what all those 4 games have in common though? Your team has a fair chance to win every game....last time I checked that was pretty important


Those aren't 4 typical Tomlin games though. In 9 starts since coming off the disabled list he's given up 4 or more runs six times and has an ERA of 6.08.

It's just as accurate to say these are 6 typical Tomlin games too:

4 IP, 6 ERs
6.2 IP, 1 ER
3 IP, 6 ERs
6 IP, 5 ERs
7 IP, 1 ER
5.2 IP, 4 ER

as these are his last 6 starts...ERA is nearly 6.5 while opponents are batting nearly .300 and slugging .550.

Again, going back to the beginning of June last year and in last 30 starts his ERA is over 5.30, not between 4.5 and 5. He's not the worst starter out there (will give you that) and agree he does keep him in the game for the most part (though a few 5/6 run games of late), but at the end of the day he just got bumped to the 5th spot in lieu of McAllister and is walking a fine line of ML 5th starter and AAA guy.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:44 am

Tondo wrote:It's in the Tomlin thread....I really dont get how anyone who has seen Tomlin pitch over the past 3 years can compare him to Sowers....Tomlin earned every start and nobody expected him to stick, Sowers shuttled between Cleveland and AAA for 4 years 5 years because they wanted him to be who he never was....Tomlin otoh is who nobody thought he was. Again, his 23-17 record is no coincidence

To put it into perspective: Tomlin has better career record, BB/ratio and WHIP than Justin Masterson

No, Im not saying he's as good as Masterson, I'm just stressing how consistent this guy is and that is VERY valuable


The comps probably come from the fact that Sowers was GREAT for about 2 months in 2006 (ERA was 2.72 in the 2nd half that year, 2nd in the AL only to roided up Roger Clemens I believe). Only once in those 11 starts did he not go at least 5 innings (first start right after the break). Had big time expectations then in 2007 but the league simply caught up to him. His WHIP jumped 4 tenths and his ERA jumped up over 6 and settled in around 5.5 the next 2 seasons after. His walk rate also jumped close to a walk per 9 (still was under 3 though so not horrible). Got hit a lot more (jumped from 8.7 to around 11 per 9).

Tomlin was GREAT in April and May of last year...then again, his ERA was even higher than Carmona's in the 2nd half and really struggled. That's carried over to this season where his ERA is over 5.5, his walk rate has doubled (still decent though at 2.2), WHIP is up 3 tenths, hit rate jumped into double digits, and his ERA since coming back is now over 6. Like Sowers he's undersized and can't overpower people, lacks very good stuff.

I absolutely hope he can rebound and be an effective ML pitcher but he's looking more and more like a guy that may need to go down or go to an NL club (think he could be very effective in a large NL park personally).

You are right that Tomlin and Sowers are different in that one was a high draft pick and the other had to really beat some odds to get to the bigs...but as far as skill/how they pitch, they are pretty similar. And as a guy that was a big Sowers fan and was always hoping he'd rebound (had some good games sprinkled in among the crap to tease ya just enough) I can understand why you still have hope for Tomlin....I just don't see it. Again though, obviously hope I'm wrong and Tomlin can be much more effective and hold on to his rotation spot but if Gomez keeps pitching well he could make a case for taking Tomlin's spot in the big league rotation.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Tondo » Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:26 am

Of course he's going through a bad stretch or we wouldn't be having this discussion...I'm not denying that. But I disagree that he's gone totally Sowers on us...again, his (x)FIP suggests that more or less he's still the same pitcher he has been the past 2 seasons, his BABIP has risen and he got his GB% to league AVG finally, which is a good thing actually/showing improvement, his FB% is down to league AVG...in fact his GB, FB and LD% are right around league AVG right now

Overall I can argue that he's extremely unlucky right now and that he has actually improved as a pitcher....from 2010 to this season his GB% has gone from 28% to 38% to 42.6% and his FB% 50%, 40% to 36%...his HR/FB% is at an insane 12.4% and while an above AVG rate could be expected since he doesn't have the stuff there's pretty clearly bad luck involved

Another thing, am I the only one that has seen an uptick in velo with his FB? I've seen it up to 92 in some games and regularly hitting 90..fangraphs has the AVG at 89.1, up from last season's 88

Anyway, I'm pretty sure Tomlin's here to stay unless we trade for a SP, then it comes down to him or McAllister
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Edible14 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:32 am

I don't know how you can argue that Tomlin's "unlucky" when his BABIP is .297. His HR/FB and HR/9 rates are pretty similar to last year's numbers as well. His FIP and FIPx are slightly up, but the real difference in performance that I'm seeing is that he's simply not getting "as lucky as last year". His ERA (and w/l, etc.) are bad because his BABIP is around normal this year instead of last year's .253. This is likely the pitcher that Josh Tomlin really is.

That being said, it's not like that's so bad. He's not an ace, but I think it was foolish to think he would be that kind of pitcher anyway. He's fine as a back of the rotation option.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:20 pm

2 freaking hits. 2!! :eek
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby indians1 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:42 pm

Who would you rather have right now ubaldo or drew pomeranz?

Pomeranz may have some trouble with control just like ubaldo, but pomeranz is already a better pitcher.

The trade is going to bite us big time because we don't have a #1 pitcher or even a #2 the way masterson and ubaldo have pitched so inconsistently.

Any good that ubaldo did in june is being quickly forgotten by the piss poor outings since the all star break.

This team should not make a trade at the deadline unless masterson and ubaldo start pitching well and santana starts hitting for some power.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:07 pm

A.Zajac wrote:2 freaking hits. 2!! :eek


There comes a point in time in every season where the losing team (Indians) tip their hat to the opposition (the Rays & David Price) and say..you got us. David Price, now becoming the clear favorite for the Cy Young in the AL, shut the Indians down cold!! 3 and 4 on this seven game roadie to start the second half.. could have been better..

Onto the O's. The Indians will be facing only one lefty in this wrap around weekend schedule of games, only Zach Britton in game 3.. the other three guys (Miguel Gonzalez, Chris Tillman, & Tommy Hunter) have been as wildly inconsistent as any other team in shouting distance of one of the AL Wild Cards.

We'll see if the heavy lumber can come out on this seven game home stand.. the final three being against the Tigers...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Edible14 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:57 pm

It's not the first time David Price has come out and completely stumped the tribe. It probably won't be the last. Last year he threw a 12k, 7 inning shutout against us. That's the big glaring weakness of this team if and when they make the playoffs. Against any lefty we're at a clear disadvantage. But against a truly tough lefty like Price, Sabathia or Lee we'll have almost no shot without a shutout performance from our starter. That's not something that will be solved by the addition of even two solid RH bats.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:44 pm

indians1 wrote:Who would you rather have right now ubaldo or drew pomeranz?

Pomeranz may have some trouble with control just like ubaldo, but pomeranz is already a better pitcher.

The trade is going to bite us big time because we don't have a #1 pitcher or even a #2 the way masterson and ubaldo have pitched so inconsistently.

Any good that ubaldo did in june is being quickly forgotten by the piss poor outings since the all star break.

This team should not make a trade at the deadline unless masterson and ubaldo start pitching well and santana starts hitting for some power.


I don't think 2 bad starts should wipe out how well Ubaldo pitched prior to the All-Star break, but maybe that's me.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby daingean » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:08 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
indians1 wrote:Who would you rather have right now ubaldo or drew pomeranz?

Pomeranz may have some trouble with control just like ubaldo, but pomeranz is already a better pitcher.

The trade is going to bite us big time because we don't have a #1 pitcher or even a #2 the way masterson and ubaldo have pitched so inconsistently.

Any good that ubaldo did in june is being quickly forgotten by the piss poor outings since the all star break.

This team should not make a trade at the deadline unless masterson and ubaldo start pitching well and santana starts hitting for some power.


I don't think 2 bad starts should wipe out how well Ubaldo pitched prior to the All-Star break, but maybe that's me.


Ubaldo gave us 5 good innings today....while it wasn't a good start, I'd not quantify it as a bad start. I know he flirted with danger throughout the game but 1 run through 5 wasn't that bad. Yes the 6th is where the wheels came off.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:16 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
indians1 wrote:Who would you rather have right now ubaldo or drew pomeranz?

Pomeranz may have some trouble with control just like ubaldo, but pomeranz is already a better pitcher.

The trade is going to bite us big time because we don't have a #1 pitcher or even a #2 the way masterson and ubaldo have pitched so inconsistently.

Any good that ubaldo did in june is being quickly forgotten by the piss poor outings since the all star break.

This team should not make a trade at the deadline unless masterson and ubaldo start pitching well and santana starts hitting for some power.


I don't think 2 bad starts should wipe out how well Ubaldo pitched prior to the All-Star break, but maybe that's me.


Problem is it's not just this start or the past 2 starts. It's him overall. Jiminez is simply too inconsistent, and just plain bad most nights. Too many walks, and allows too many baserunners.

This year the home run ball is making it that much more difficult to take. He's already given up 16 and his previous high was last year at 17. This, after being dealt from Colorado.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but this simply turned into a bad deal for the Indians.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Rocky55 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Noticed something reading the boxscores during the Rays series.

Luke Scott stats for the eight games:

33AB, 15H, (.454 BA), 4 Doubles, 1 Triple, 3 HR, 10 RBI. He went from a .626 OPS before the 1st game of the series to a .720 OPS after today's debacle.

Time to add him to the Tribe-Killers Club along with Phillips, Dunn, Pierzynsi, & Konerko. Plus Buehrle of course. Notice how many of those guys play(ed) for the White Sux?
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:21 pm

Reading on The Twitter that Cody Allen has been called up by the Indians...any truth?

Per Al Ciammaichella @gotribe31

Indians have called reliever Cody Allen up to the big league club. Began the year in high-A Carolina. Great story.



EDIT: Jordan Bastian running with the story too.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:52 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:Reading on The Twitter that Cody Allen has been called up by the Indians...any truth?

Per Al Ciammaichella @gotribe31

Indians have called reliever Cody Allen up to the big league club. Began the year in high-A Carolina. Great story.



EDIT: Jordan Bastian running with the story too.


Wonder who's out.. Barnes? Accardo?
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:09 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:Reading on The Twitter that Cody Allen has been called up by the Indians...any truth?

Per Al Ciammaichella @gotribe31

Indians have called reliever Cody Allen up to the big league club. Began the year in high-A Carolina. Great story.



EDIT: Jordan Bastian running with the story too.


Wonder who's out.. Barnes? Accardo?


Well optioning Barnes seems to be a biweekly event so he's about due.

As for the 40 man, Bastian mentioned since Hagadone is on the minor league DQ list there is a spot open, or they can put Chiz on the 60 day (makes sense with Perez left working his way back).
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby indians1 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:19 am

The problem is that we can't make the playoffs with inconsistent starts by ubaldo and masterson.

He had a good month of June with bad april, may and 2nd half of july. We aren't just talking about 2 bad starts. This is not what we were supposed to have traded for and in 1 year, pomeranz is going to be starting for colorado, and we will have to decide whether to take a risk on another contract with ubaldo.

Not a good situation when you have no starters that can help you from the minors.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:27 pm

Gosh, we look SUPER tonight! Derek Lowe takes the lead in our "who is our worst pitcher" contest!!!
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby timdav » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:47 am

It's great the Tribe had 30,000+ in Progressive Field Friday night. I guess big promotions and fireworks succeeded. But, that only works so much for so long.

It's great that as a business, the Indians under the Dolan family ownership either makes a "small profit or breaks even" (their words).

But, let's be realistic: how long can this team afford to be 30th in attendance before they address their core problem? Upper management? Scouting and development? Both?

Like others on this board, a not-so-small portion of my income used to rely on the performance of our 3 major league sports teams in northeastern Ohio. I know and like some of the primary media contacts with the teams as well. And, I really am a fan besides all that.

Sooner or later a business has to take a look at what they're doing and ask...is it time for big changes? Smoke and mirrors only work so long.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby ironmike » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:51 am

Timdav, you are 100% correct. Three names have been associated with the Indians during their collapse over the past decade, Dolan, Shapiro and Dolan.

Shapiro's lack of pure baseball evaluation talent (lack of results, horrible drafts) has set this team back to the days when we teetered on the brink of moving to New Orleans.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GoTribe028 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:22 pm

Looks like Fausto Roberto Carmona Hernandez Martinez Lopez Heredia Martin has recieved his US Visa.

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ss ... berto.html

Given 3 week suspension.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Edible14 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:46 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:Looks like Fausto Roberto Carmona Hernandez Martinez Lopez Heredia Martin has recieved his US Visa.

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ss ... berto.html

Given 3 week suspension.


I was curious if that "he took less pay, don't suspend him" gambit would actually work. That seems... like an awfully fish story to me.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby ironmike » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:31 am

Time for the old Billy Martin trick?

Put all the players names in a hat, let each starter pull a name and there is your line up.

A very, very boring baseball team.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Tondo » Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:15 pm

What a crap game so far...Santana goes to bat 2for2 with the bases loaded and watches 5 pitches go bye without swinging...

and now the Os get another run because of crappy effort at 3B by Lopez...maybe Im spoiled but Hannahan at least stops that ball
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby timdav » Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:10 pm

Question: how many of you honestly believe the Indians are legitimate World Series contenders in 2012 or 2013?

If we're really being truthful...the answer is very, very likely "no".

So, let's look at the 2014 Cleveland Indians, assuming current players are are consistent and barring any major trade acquisitions or free agent signings:

C-Santana
1b-?
2b-Kipnis
3b-Chisenhall
ss-Cabrera
lf-?
cf-Brantley
rf-?
dh?
starter-Masterson
starter-Gomez
starter-Mc Allister
starter-?
starter-?
closer-Perez
setup-Pestano
reliever-Joe Smith
reliever-Cody Allen
reliever-C.C. Lee
reliever-Hagadone

Choo is likely gone after 2013 (Why? Scott Boras), Jimenez gone (if he becomes good, he's gone, if he's bad why keep him?), Roberton "Fausto" Hernandez maybe, but he'll be age 33 in 2014.

Is there anybody now at Columbus and Akron who even remotely look like future major leaguers?

Even if you really believe in the half-dozen or so key kids now at Carolina or Lake County....if they aren't traded to acquire veterans for the big league team in '12 or '13...there's no guarantee even half of them will become impact players at the big league level. And, will they be ready for Cleveland in little more than 2 seasons from today?

If what the front office is now doing (or not doing) represents their best efforts for an admittedly "2-year window of competitiveness"...2012, 2013....I'd hate to see what they have planned for 2014.

To watch the big league team this year is really tough. To carefully look at the organization's farm system's top 2 levels and project to '14 or '15 is frightening.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:27 pm

timdav wrote:Question: how many of you honestly believe the Indians are legitimate World Series contenders in 2012 or 2013?

If we're really being truthful...the answer is very, very likely "no".

So, let's look at the 2014 Cleveland Indians, assuming current players are are consistent and barring any major trade acquisitions or free agent signings:

C-Santana
1b-?
2b-Kipnis
3b-Chisenhall
ss-Cabrera
lf-?
cf-Brantley
rf-?
dh?
starter-Masterson
starter-Gomez
starter-Mc Allister
starter-?
starter-?
closer-Perez
setup-Pestano
reliever-Joe Smith
reliever-Cody Allen
reliever-C.C. Lee
reliever-Hagadone

Choo is likely gone after 2013 (Why? Scott Boras), Jimenez gone (if he becomes good, he's gone, if he's bad why keep him?), Roberton "Fausto" Hernandez maybe, but he'll be age 33 in 2014.

Is there anybody now at Columbus and Akron who even remotely look like future major leaguers?


Carrasco is a guy you forgot to mention, under team control in 2014 (and beyond) and hopefully should be back. Jimenez likely is gone, though his 2014 option is a player option now so may not be up to the Tribe (if he pitches bad enough, may pick it up himself).

Soto looks like a MLer to me at Akron. I still like House though we'll see if he can start. McFarland may only be a Laffey-type but looks like a future MLer to me. Steven Wright too.


I have my doubts that Chris Perez is an Indian in 2014 (even 2013 is iffy to me). Easily could be making $10M, possibly $11M. For a team short on funds, giving that much to a reliever may not be the best option (wasn't with Wood a couple years ago)...

Do agree with you though that this team does not look like WS contenders this season (anything can happen in 2013 though, but got a hill to climb for sure).
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:29 pm

ironmike wrote:Timdav, you are 100% correct. Three names have been associated with the Indians during their collapse over the past decade, Dolan, Shapiro and Dolan.

Shapiro's lack of pure baseball evaluation talent (lack of results, horrible drafts) has set this team back to the days when we teetered on the brink of moving to New Orleans.


Think that second Dolan was supposed to be Hart...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:39 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:I don't think 2 bad starts should wipe out how well Ubaldo pitched prior to the All-Star break, but maybe that's me.


Problem is it's not just this start or the past 2 starts. It's him overall. Jiminez is simply too inconsistent, and just plain bad most nights. Too many walks, and allows too many baserunners.

This year the home run ball is making it that much more difficult to take. He's already given up 16 and his previous high was last year at 17. This, after being dealt from Colorado.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but this simply turned into a bad deal for the Indians.


Wasn't debating the merits of the trade. Simply that when you had as good a stretch as Ubaldo had there for a while, you shouldn't just completely give up on the guy after 2 starts (like it seems some have). Went 7 starts, never pitching fewer than 6 innings, and had a 2.93 ERA. Indians as a whole really struggled in June, Jimenez was one of the few bright spots.

He clearly needs to turn things around though...starting tonight. :cool
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby ironmike » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:28 pm

No Hermie, it supposed to be Dolan ... smart ass!
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