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Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Talk about the Cleveland Indians, Major League Baseball, and other sports.

Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu May 10, 2012 8:47 am

Well.. that was one ugly game..

-Jake Peavy is an intense nasty pitching mofo when he's got his FB/Slider combination working.. He and Chris Perez could make the all "Mark Fydrich" team, imho...

-Johnny Damon's defense makes Shelly Duncan look like a gold glover.. Where was he jumping for that ball over his head last night?. It wasn't very graceful.. and he had zero chance of making contact with his glove.. ugh.. You have to think that with Aaron Cunningham in LF, those kinds of plays wouldn't be happening. Just plain ugly..

-JeanMar's slider was flat and hanging last night.. The big bats from the Southside tattoo'd him.. He just couldn't catch a break or make an out in the CWSox big six run inning.. Credit to him, though, for taking a bullet for the team. The tenth game (6-4) in nine days, with eleven more days / games before a day off should help save some of the weariness the BP is going to be feeling as this tough stretch of games continues.

-The Indians travel to Boston to face the Red Sox in a four game set over the weekend. The Red Sox are a mess right now. Between the idiot chicken and beer eaters and the ego of Bobby Valentine, it will be important to hit the sawx starters hard and early. The Indians will see Beckett, Buchholz, Duobront and Bard..no Lester. (lots of "B's" there) The Indians have never faced Doubront, but have hit the other three Boston starters pretty well over their careers... Let chaos reign !!
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Thu May 10, 2012 8:54 am

I can't fault Brantley for swinging at the first pitch, not when the result was a screaming line drive that would have been a double if the first baseman wasn't holding the runner.

Sometimes when a pitcher is wild he expects the take sign to be on so he tries to get ahead by throwing a fastball down the middle on the first pitch. If the hitter is sitting on it why shouldn't he swing - it might be the best pitch he sees in the at-bat?

Santana hit .203 last year batting left-handed. He's as easy out from the left side except for the occasional home run. I wish he would shorten up his swing because he's rarely making good contact. At least he's drawing some walks.

It looks like Kotchman is finally getting his swing together. Now if Damon could just get his OBP above .200....
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Thu May 10, 2012 9:07 am

GeronimoSon wrote:
-Johnny Damon's defense makes Shelly Duncan look like a gold glover.. Where was he jumping for that ball over his head last night?. It wasn't very graceful.. and he had zero chance of making contact with his glove.. ugh.. You have to think that with Aaron Cunningham in LF, those kinds of plays wouldn't be happening. Just plain ugly..

Cunningham would provide vastly improved defense along with better offense. Damon's OBP is under .200.


-The Indians travel to Boston to face the Red Sox in a four game set over the weekend. The Red Sox are a mess right now. Between the idiot chicken and beer eaters and the ego of Bobby Valentine, it will be important to hit the sawx starters hard and early. The Indians will see Beckett, Buchholz, Duobront and Bard..no Lester. (lots of "B's" there) The Indians have never faced Doubront, but have hit the other three Boston starters pretty well over their careers... Let chaos reign !!

Buchholz is 3-1 with a 9.09 ERA. How about that line?
Duobront 5.29 ERA However, he is left-handed.
Bard 4.83
Beckett 4.45

Their closer has an ERA of 6.17.

Amazingly, the Red Sox have already used 19 pitchers this year.

We could see the Tribe score some runs this weekend with three right-handers going for Boston. Hopefully Jack Hannahan is ready to go. Jason Donald is a mess right now, both offensively and defensively.

Big Poppy is hitting .359 with a .420 OBP. He's Adam Dunn on steroids. I see a lot of bases on balls in his immediate future.


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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu May 10, 2012 12:25 pm

Prosecutor wrote:I can't fault Brantley for swinging at the first pitch, not when the result was a screaming line drive that would have been a double if the first baseman wasn't holding the runner.

Sometimes when a pitcher is wild he expects the take sign to be on so he tries to get ahead by throwing a fastball down the middle on the first pitch. If the hitter is sitting on it why shouldn't he swing - it might be the best pitch he sees in the at-bat?

Santana hit .203 last year batting left-handed. He's as easy out from the left side except for the occasional home run. I wish he would shorten up his swing because he's rarely making good contact. At least he's drawing some walks.

It looks like Kotchman is finally getting his swing together. Now if Damon could just get his OBP above .200....


Definitely wasn't as upset with Branltey doing it as I was with Choo since he did make good contact, but fact is both he and Choo swung at the first pitch when the starter was really struggling with command. For a team that stresses patience at the plate as much as the Tribe does, I can't imagine that sat well with Acta and the rest of the Tribe coaching staff.

Santana did only hit .202 while batting left-handed last year...but hit 22 of his 27 HRs from the left side. Also hit .314 batting lefty in 2010 and at times in the minors hit better lefty than righty as well. Averages are a lot closer this year (.254 lefty, .282 righty). Think you're just going to have to live with the swing he has from the left side as all his HRs have come from that side. Need Santana to be a power hitter in the middle of that lineup. If he can hit .250 with a .365 OBP (what he currently has from the left side) I'll take it from the left side, as that's far from an easy out. Wouldn't be upset though if he was able to shorten up the swing while maintaing power though obviously...

Think it's pretty fair to say that may have been Kotchman's best game as an Indian. Some very good at-bats all game plus 2 very solid defensive plays at 1B. Interesting to note on Kotchman....he's currently hitting .348 with an .835 OPS against the White Sox and .294 with a 1.102 OPS against the Royals. Sample sizes are obviously small (25 and 22 PAs) but they are the teams we'll be seeing the most along with the Twins/Tigers so a somewhat encouraging stat (even if it's reaching).

Agree, Damon needs to pick it up.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Fri May 11, 2012 9:04 am

Yeah, I'll take .250 with a .365 OBP from the left side out of Santana, especially since it comes with all that power. However, he hit .202 last year so he'll have to raise his BA by nearly 50 points to hit that number.

I'm just concerned that since he's hitting cleanup and most pitchers are right-handed, that's a rally killing hole in the middle of the lineup if he hits only .202.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Fri May 11, 2012 12:14 pm

Prosecutor wrote:Yeah, I'll take .250 with a .365 OBP from the left side out of Santana, especially since it comes with all that power. However, he hit .202 last year so he'll have to raise his BA by nearly 50 points to hit that number.

I'm just concerned that since he's hitting cleanup and most pitchers are right-handed, that's a rally killing hole in the middle of the lineup if he hits only .202.


He's hitting 40 pts higher in the early going this year as a lefty so he's showing that he's more than capable though.

I would like to see a "split of the split" too on Santana meaning I'd like to see how he hit batting left-handed in the 2nd half last year. Maybe it was just me but he looked a lot better from that side in the 2nd half than the first.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Fri May 11, 2012 12:41 pm

Great game by Brantley offensively. Glad to see some of thosse balls finding the outfield grass. Really liking him in that 7-spot.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Fri May 11, 2012 9:06 pm

I really, really don't think instant replay should be in baseball. Think there is too much already....but man plays like that one at 1B (which has cost us 2 runs already) do make me wonder...

Such an easy call and so obvious, yet they can still blow it
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Fri May 11, 2012 9:14 pm

Hermie13 wrote:I really, really don't think instant replay should be in baseball. Think there is too much already....but man plays like that one at 1B (which has cost us 2 runs already) do make me wonder...

Such an easy call and so obvious, yet they can still blow it


That call was pitiful.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Fri May 11, 2012 9:15 pm

Does Ubad-o have options?
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Fri May 11, 2012 9:22 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:Does Ubad-o have options?


Sparing options - I think he should get the hook early before he tanks a game.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri May 11, 2012 9:47 pm

Ahh.. and the crucial moment has arrived.. Hafner at bat.. bases loaded.. one out.. Rich Hill on the hill..

A walk by Pronk.. plates a run..

An error by Middlebrooks.. plates the second run of the inning..

Shin-soo Choo at bat.. representing the tying run..

The Fenway Faithful are starting to crap their drawers...

Choo tags one.. an at-em ball.. onto to Michael Brantley.. bases still juiced.. two down..

Brantley with a solid single up the middle.. beautiful.. now a 7-4 game..

Go ahead run coming up to the plate.. and ugh.. Kotchman's up..oh well.. it was fun while it lasted... as per usual..

Kotchman grounds weakly to the 1B who tosses to Andrew Miller covering..

Why wasn't Shelly Duncan used in that spot?.. smh..

Right back at em.. Hanny with a single.. an error by Adrian Gonzalez on the run down (IDK if they called it an error, but

it was..) and Hannahan gets to 2B.. Walk worked by the Kipper.. and now comes the best hitter in the lineup.. Droobs..

Time for Droobs to make this a tie game?...wasn't to be.. the rally fizzles..
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby daingean » Fri May 11, 2012 10:47 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
Go ahead run coming up to the plate.. and ugh.. Kotchman's up..oh well.. it was fun while it lasted... as per usual..

Kotchman grounds weakly to the 1B who tosses to Andrew Miller covering..

Why wasn't Shelly Duncan used in that spot?.. smh..



I swear, Kotchman could even get a hit with the bases loaded and it still not plate a run. Worst offensive first baseman in baseball. Even LaPorta last year had better run producing numbers in about 3/4 of the at bats. If a guy has decent periphery stats but does not score runs or drive them in for several years running, then that is an issue which you really cannot camouflage.....it is what it is.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Fri May 11, 2012 11:10 pm

Kotchman with a big hit in the 9th. Great seeing him and Brantley hitting and running. Need to see more of that.

Hannhan and Damon unable to deliver though. Would have been intereting to see how this game plays out had the 1B ump made that easy call at 1st. O well I guess, get them tomorrow.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sat May 12, 2012 11:03 am

Felix Doubront going for the Sox tonight. He's a 24-year-old lefty, 9 career starts, 5.01 ERA this year. I don't know anything about him, but his longest start of the year was 6 1/3 innings.

Interestingly, lefties give him a lot more trouble than right-handed hitters. Lefties are touching him up for a .310/.936 line, whereas righties are hitting only .253/.695. Maybe the Tribe's left-handed hitters can do some damage against this guy.

He also becomes a lot more hittable the deeper he goes into the game. After 45 pitches opposing batters are hitting .385, which explains why he's only pitched into the 7th inning once in six starts.

Tomlin needs to work around Ortiz and Gonzalez and get everybody else out.

By the way, Tomlin also has a reverse split with lefties hitting .226 and righties hitting .297 off him. However, all three dingers he has given up were to lefties.

Last year I got the impression that the deeper into the game Tomlin pitched the more damage he suffered as hitters figured him out. This year it's the opposite.

Pitches 1-15: .779 OPS
16-30: .760
31-45: .658
46-60: .642

Checking last year's numbers, it's just as I thought:

Pitches 1-15: 428
16-30: .756
31-45: 785
46-60: 919

I know it's early, but maybe Tomlin has figured something out. His strikeouts have increased almost 50% and he's actually getting more effective the longer he pitches, although Acta won't let him go too far. Tonight he's going against a better offensive team than he's seen so far, so it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Sat May 12, 2012 2:16 pm

Tomlin scratched from his start tonight with a sore right wrist....Z-Mac recalled again to take make the start. Haven't seen the corresponding move yet...

Tough spot for the Tribe....does Hags go down just because of numbers? Or Gomez? Or do they let a guy like Wheeler go? Doesn't sound like it's a DL type injury for Tomlin though maybe that's the move they make...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Sat May 12, 2012 4:34 pm

Alright... lots of transactions to mention:

Tomlin to the 15 day DL retroactive May 8. ZMac called up for his spot.
Jason Donald sent to AAA, Jose Lopez called up.
Nick Weglarz DFA.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Sat May 12, 2012 6:39 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Alright... lots of transactions to mention:

Tomlin to the 15 day DL retroactive May 8. ZMac called up for his spot.
Jason Donald sent to AAA, Jose Lopez called up.
Nick Weglarz DFA.


Sucks about Tomlin. Little worried about Tomlin and his explanation for the injury. Hopefully it's a simple sore wrist and he'll be back before the month is out.

Sad to see Donald go down but with Hanny and Kip swinging the bat well really no ABs for him. Could probably use some regular at-bats (and probably some OF time). Also sad to see Wegz DFAed...had such high hopes for him.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat May 12, 2012 6:50 pm

Jordan Bastian tweeted that Tomlin expected to need to skip 2 starts..... so, with the retroactive move..... the DL stint made sense.

Let's hope that's the case.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Sat May 12, 2012 8:03 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Alright... lots of transactions to mention:

Tomlin to the 15 day DL retroactive May 8. ZMac called up for his spot.
Jason Donald sent to AAA, Jose Lopez called up.
Nick Weglarz DFA.


Sucks about Tomlin. Little worried about Tomlin and his explanation for the injury. Hopefully it's a simple sore wrist and he'll be back before the month is out.

Sad to see Donald go down but with Hanny and Kip swinging the bat well really no ABs for him. Could probably use some regular at-bats (and probably some OF time). Also sad to see Wegz DFAed...had such high hopes for him.


Donald needs to play 3b and work on his throws!
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Sat May 12, 2012 9:00 pm

Not sure if I get this. Jose Lopez is a better SS than Jason Donald???
I understand wanting to add another productive player to the bench but if ACab gets banged up/ hit by pitch/ tossed from a game for arguing a bs call our SS is then ???
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Sat May 12, 2012 9:13 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:Not sure if I get this. Jose Lopez is a better SS than Jason Donald???
I understand wanting to add another productive player to the bench but if ACab gets banged up/ hit by pitch/ tossed from a game for arguing a bs call our SS is then ???


When AC had to go back to Venezuela for his grandpa's funeral the Tribe was fine with calling up Hagadone and having Lopez and Hannahan as the backup SS's. AC should play everyday, if he needs to leave a game don't think the Tribe is that worried about having to use one of them for a couple innings.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Sat May 12, 2012 9:15 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:Donald needs to play 3b and work on his throws!


3B seems fine though with Hannahan and Chiz then in the long run. Donald probably plays some there with Chiz on the DL but once he's back shouldn't see any time there IMO.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby TonyIBI » Sun May 13, 2012 1:21 am

MadThinker88 wrote:Not sure if I get this. Jose Lopez is a better SS than Jason Donald???
I understand wanting to add another productive player to the bench but if ACab gets banged up/ hit by pitch/ tossed from a game for arguing a bs call our SS is then ???


Sadly, yes, Lopez would play SS and sadly he arguably is as good or better a defensive SS than Donald. Donald is not a very good defensive SS or 3B. He's a second tier 2B on a team that is non-contending, like the Royals or Athletics. He really blew his chance with some poor play both in the field and at the plate....they won't say it publicly, but Acta lost confidence in him.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sun May 13, 2012 7:21 am

So much for the bonanza of prospects we got for Cliff Lee. Donald looks like a AAAA player at a position where we're set for the next five years, Marson is 2-for-22 as a backup catcher, Knapp had two arm surgeries and appears to be done, and Carrasco is recovering from Tommy John. Looks like Carrasco is our last hope to salvage anything of value from that deal.

I read in the PD this morning that Hannahan is now the backup shortstop. In that case, who's on third?

With the Indians hitting .217 against left-handed pitching and with a record of 4-8 against left-handed starters, I expect to see Lopez get more at-bats than he got the first time around. Can he play left field?

I'm starting to think that Zach McAlister has a shot as a BOR guy. He struck out 8 Red Sox last night and got a ton of swing-and-misses on his fastball. He got stronger as the game went along, striking out five of the last seven batters he faced despite throwing over 100 pitches. Two runs were allowed on a bloop single followed by doubles to Pedroia and Ortiz - nothing to be embarassed about there. Both those guys are red-hot and hitting .350. He made a couple of mistakes on the homer and the ground rule double to guys in the bottom of the order, but overall he pitched better than I expected.

He doesn't seem to have a third pitch but when he's locating his fastball and slider he was effective.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Sun May 13, 2012 10:40 am

Prosecutor wrote:So much for the bonanza of prospects we got for Cliff Lee. Donald looks like a AAAA player at a position where we're set for the next five years, Marson is 2-for-22 as a backup catcher, Knapp had two arm surgeries and appears to be done, and Carrasco is recovering from Tommy John. Looks like Carrasco is our last hope to salvage anything of value from that deal.

I read in the PD this morning that Hannahan is now the backup shortstop. In that case, who's on third?

With the Indians hitting .217 against left-handed pitching and with a record of 4-8 against left-handed starters, I expect to see Lopez get more at-bats than he got the first time around. Can he play left field?

I'm starting to think that Zach McAlister has a shot as a BOR guy. He struck out 8 Red Sox last night and got a ton of swing-and-misses on his fastball. He got stronger as the game went along, striking out five of the last seven batters he faced despite throwing over 100 pitches. Two runs were allowed on a bloop single followed by doubles to Pedroia and Ortiz - nothing to be embarassed about there. Both those guys are red-hot and hitting .350. He made a couple of mistakes on the homer and the ground rule double to guys in the bottom of the order, but overall he pitched better than I expected.

He doesn't seem to have a third pitch but when he's locating his fastball and slider he was effective.


Not surprising on Hanny being the backup SS. If he has to play there Lopez would be playing 3rd where he started a lot of the Mariners.

Lopez won't be seeing LF, Duncan will continue to handle that against lefties.

Really like Z-Mac personally and am pulling for him. Was a top 5 spec with Yanks. Stuff isn't great but with his height if he's got control he can still be very effective in the bigs as we saw last night. Think he has more than just a shot at being a BOR starter in the bigs. Think he is going to be one. Pretty nice haul for Austin Kearns :cool


And yeah....that Lee deal is looking worse everyday. Not sure what it is about Lee but doesn't seem like anyone gets a got a good deal when trading him a couple years ago. Smoak is still stinking it up...his OPS is currently worse than Casey Kotchman's. Lawson is basically out of baseball. Luebke is in TB and struggled with off-the-field issues and at the big league level (though did get Jaso for him, who has been decent). Beavan has been pretty solid for the Mariners. May be their saving grace on the deal (also dealt Lowe who has been solid for the Rangers). Phillies got 2 guys who have been moved to the pen (Ramirez and Aumont) and a 4th OFer in Gillies. Not saying the Tribe deserves a pass (deal looks very crappy), just think it's pretty amazing that no one got much for him. Tribe could potentially turn out with the most if Carrasco can come back strong (though Beavan is the best so far).
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Sun May 13, 2012 2:32 pm

Tell ya what... both Masterson and Ubaldo just don't have it so far this year.

It's also becoming VERY evident how we need a solid RH bat in the lineup too..
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Sun May 13, 2012 6:07 pm

Indians have designated Dan Wheeler for assignment...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby ironmike » Sun May 13, 2012 8:14 pm

Regarding Donald, it is extremely difficult to be a bench player as a young MLB who is not established. Donald needs to play every day and he would blossom, not the way he is currently being handled. If the Indians can't use him as a every day player they should trade him. He's already done very well at Triple A and hit .318 last year for the Indians.

We are one day closer to acquiring a RH professional hitter.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Sun May 13, 2012 8:25 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Indians have designated Dan Wheeler for assignment...


In the offseason I thought that Wheeler was a good pickup. Now it is clear he has nothing left.
The question is who gets the call up - will it be someone already on the 40 man or someone about to be added to the 40.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby timdav » Sun May 13, 2012 8:43 pm

Thank heavens the Tigers are not playing like....well: the Tigers. Who knows how long it'll be til they wake up.

The bigger question for Tribe fans is: what are your real hopes for this franchise? Winning in the AL Central and just getting to the playoffs? Winning the AL pennant and going to the World Series, or winning a World Series ring?

Me, I'd rather see the Indians win than not win, but IMHO: a ring is what we all want for our team.

When you look at the current Indians minor league system, do you see a future legitimate World Series caliber team in the next 4 or 5 years? The Tribe has a few great pieces...but, do they really have enough? I hate to be negative, but I can't b.s. myself. It's not going to be easy (but you could say that for most teams, couldn't you?).

With respect to the Indians last-ranked attendance year to date....I can't put my finger on why. Certainly there are other teams in other markets who haven't won lately or even had a great run like the Indians had in the 90's. And, the economy is down in many parts of the country. Why the fans are staying away from Progressive Field any more than any other team is beyond me. Anybody got a guess?
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sun May 13, 2012 9:02 pm

With Wheeler being DFA'd it'd be very "Tribe-like" to call up Accardo or Ray.

Other options on the 40-man include Hermann, Huff, Kluber, Slowey and Barnes. But, I find it hard to believe they'll call up a starter and move him to the pen and it's too soon for Barnes.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Sun May 13, 2012 10:56 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:With Wheeler being DFA'd it'd be very "Tribe-like" to call up Accardo or Ray.

Other options on the 40-man include Hermann, Huff, Kluber, Slowey and Barnes. But, I find it hard to believe they'll call up a starter and move him to the pen and it's too soon for Barnes.


Actually it does make sense to call up Barnes. He is already burning an option this yr being on the 40 & playing so far this season in the minors. Getting his feet wet now might allow you to better evaluate what you have & consider flipping a Sipp or Raffy Perez in a package to get the RH bat that is needed.

Come to think of it - how long till Raffy comes of the DL? If they think he is ready to rejoin, they might just skip any rehab assignment.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby criznit2009 » Mon May 14, 2012 1:05 am

I agree that the "indian" move would be to call up Accardo or Ray, but i actually believe they buck themselves and call up Barnes or Herrmann. My money is on Herrmann but could be Barnes is they decide Raffy wont be much help.

As for the RH bat issue.. we have been moaning, complaining, practically begging the tribe to do something about this for what about a YEAR now. Total failure and if Masterson cant rebound and Brantley plays himself into a permanent platoon/bench role.... Well heads better roll.....
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 14, 2012 7:35 am

MadThinker88 wrote:
dazindiansfanuk wrote:With Wheeler being DFA'd it'd be very "Tribe-like" to call up Accardo or Ray.

Other options on the 40-man include Hermann, Huff, Kluber, Slowey and Barnes. But, I find it hard to believe they'll call up a starter and move him to the pen and it's too soon for Barnes.


Actually it does make sense to call up Barnes. He is already burning an option this yr being on the 40 & playing so far this season in the minors. Getting his feet wet now might allow you to better evaluate what you have & consider flipping a Sipp or Raffy Perez in a package to get the RH bat that is needed.

Come to think of it - how long till Raffy comes of the DL? If they think he is ready to rejoin, they might just skip any rehab assignment.


Raffy was doing long toss over the weekend (to 120 feet) and is slated for a rehab or two by the end of this week.. and you're right.. it will most likely be Jeremy Accardo or Chris Ray..probably Accardo as he has a clause in his minor league contract that says if he's not on the ML roster by June 1st, he can ask for his release..
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 14, 2012 8:20 am

timdav wrote:Thank heavens the Tigers are not playing like....well: the Tigers. Who knows how long it'll be til they wake up.

The bigger question for Tribe fans is: what are your real hopes for this franchise? Winning in the AL Central and just getting to the playoffs? Winning the AL pennant and going to the World Series, or winning a World Series ring?

Me, I'd rather see the Indians win than not win, but IMHO: a ring is what we all want for our team.

When you look at the current Indians minor league system, do you see a future legitimate World Series caliber team in the next 4 or 5 years? The Tribe has a few great pieces...but, do they really have enough? I hate to be negative, but I can't b.s. myself. It's not going to be easy (but you could say that for most teams, couldn't you?).

With respect to the Indians last-ranked attendance year to date....I can't put my finger on why. Certainly there are other teams in other markets who haven't won lately or even had a great run like the Indians had in the 90's. And, the economy is down in many parts of the country. Why the fans are staying away from Progressive Field any more than any other team is beyond me. Anybody got a guess?


Hmmm.. couple of interesting questions in your posting..

Regarding the Indians post season aspirations.. Win the AL Central.. yes.. Win the AL Central and play deep into October.. yes.. Win a World Series.. yes. Will it happen with this group of players and coaches?.. why not?. The St Louis Cardinals won the WS last year getting into the playoffs by the narrowest of margins and an all out collapse by the Atlanta Braves. Getting hot at the right time didn't hurt, either.

No, it's not going to be easy.. If it was, everyone would do it. The Indians have some good players to be sure, but are they enough to carry the team?. Who heard of David Freese and Allen Craig before the playoffs last year?. That's right, no one did, but they were instrumental in the Cards run to their World Series Championship.. Even the great Albert Pujols, with just one outstanding game, was just a bit player in the post season. The Cardinals bullpen bolstered by the emergence of Jason Motte was a critical part of their run.. who was Jason Motte? He was the Cards fourth back of the pen RP to start the season..

Regarding attendance.. The # 1 reason people don't go to games is they don't identify with a specific player or players. The Indians lack star power across the board. Without star drawing power, things like Fireworks and "Injun Joe Carter" Bobbleheads are what drive people to visit the corner of Carnegie and Ontario.. Getting used up vets like Johnny Damon.. doesn't solve the problem. Having a starting pitching staff that has Derek Lowe, being paid 2/3rds of his enormous contract by the Atlanta Braves to pitch someplace else, doesn't engender the term "juggernaut". In the 90's, every night it was one of several identifiable players that lead the team.. Today, who can really say who is this team's leaders?. The closest the Indians have to that type of identifiable players are Chris Perez (even with his bad peripherals) and Asdrubal Cabrera. Grady Sizemore was the guy, but being on the DL for two/three years has tarnished his star.. Ditto to PRONK.. With Shin-soo Choo just 1 2/3rds of a year away from becoming a free agent, why would anyone start a fan club that is destined to be finished less than two years after it starts.. Only Carlos Santana is signed long term with the club and he's pretty much invisible to the city and the fans other than being on the field.. The 90's had one huge difference (aside from the perfect storm of the Browns leaving town and the Cavs looking like the Washington Generals).. the season ticket base is pathetically low. Less that 1/3rd the number of season tickets are being purchased in 2012 than was the norm during the 1994-2001 time frame. All the bobbleheads and fireworks and Subway $ 5 coupons cannot overcome the support for the team without long term, identifiable heroes to follow and worship. The economic reality of the business of baseball in Cleveland says, this isn't going to change anytime soon.. unless, there is a real draw to bring fans and families to see games..

Here's a pet peeve of mine, the idea that weather is a factor in the spring, has some merit..it points out one of the biggest failures from the Jacob's Field inception.. By allowing the park to be built without the benefit of a retractable dome, the shortsighted planners and voters eliminated the chance to give the Indians and the fans the best park it could be. Instead, the Jake has seen April attendance (and part of May) dwindle to the pathetic < 10K fans per game. The converse argument about during the 455 game sell out streak has merits, but the "perfect storm" that engendered the streak (browns leaving, cavs blowing, identifiable team leaders) doesn't exist and. most likely, never exist again. Truth be told, the Indians have a lease with the city that extends through the 2024 season. Without the benefit of a retractable dome and the lack of support for the team.. you can mark it down now.. the Indians could be on the move to greener pastures that WILL not skimp in upgrading the facilities for the club. BTW, just before the sin tax (money from alcohol and tobacco) that was used to build the "jake" was to be retired, the voters, with the aid of the not-directly-indemnified politicos and their marketing machine, decided to continue the tax which helped build Cleveland Browns Stadium. That 'extension' is set to expire in about three years. It would be a wise move to have the retractable dome plans with not to exceed costs in the back pocket of the elected leaders before that date.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby daingean » Mon May 14, 2012 8:34 am

GeronimoSon wrote:Here's a pet peeve of mine, the idea that weather is a factor in the spring, has some merit..it points out one of the biggest failures from the Jacob's Field inception.. By allowing the park to be built without the benefit of a retractable dome, the shortsighted planners and voters eliminated the chance to give the Indians and the fans the best park it could be. Instead, the Jake has seen April attendance (and part of May) dwindle to the pathetic < 10K fans per game. The converse argument about during the 455 game sell out streak has merits, but the "perfect storm" that engendered the streak (browns leaving, cavs blowing, identifiable team leaders) doesn't exist and. most likely, never exist again. Truth be told, the Indians have a lease with the city that extends through the 2024 season. Without the benefit of a retractable dome and the lack of support for the team.. you can mark it down now.. the Indians could be on the move to greener pastures that WILL not skimp in upgrading the facilities for the club. BTW, just before the sin tax (money from alcohol and tobacco) that was used to build the "jake" was to be retired, the voters, with the aid of the not-directly-indemnified politicos and their marketing machine, decided to continue the tax which helped build Cleveland Browns Stadium. That 'extension' is set to expire in about three years. It would be a wise move to have the retractable dome plans with not to exceed costs in the back pocket of the elected leaders before that date.


I would not underestimate school as a factor. NE Ohio has 4 US cities in their drawing area (Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown and Canton). While maybe 3/5 of the population to draw from is in the Cleveland area, it is difficult to get parents to bring their kids from Canton and Youngstown (Akron to a lesser degree) on a school night. Personally, I live about 40 minutes from Turner Field and I do not go to Atlanta games on week nights very often because I have to get up at 5:30AM for work.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon May 14, 2012 12:35 pm

daingean wrote:I would not underestimate school as a factor. NE Ohio has 4 US cities in their drawing area (Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown and Canton). While maybe 3/5 of the population to draw from is in the Cleveland area, it is difficult to get parents to bring their kids from Canton and Youngstown (Akron to a lesser degree) on a school night. Personally, I live about 40 minutes from Turner Field and I do not go to Atlanta games on week nights very often because I have to get up at 5:30AM for work.


Agree completely on school being a factor. Doesn't really matter how far you live, even if it's only 20 minutes from the park, you're looking at 10pm game over, with traffic it'll be after 10:30-10:45pm getting home...that's pretty late for younger kids on a school night.

Going off topic here, but one reason I hate how Interleague play starts that 2nd week of June. Of course it does well, parents and younger kids can actually go to a weekday game without the worry of it being a school night.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon May 14, 2012 12:44 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Here's a pet peeve of mine, the idea that weather is a factor in the spring, has some merit..it points out one of the biggest failures from the Jacob's Field inception.. By allowing the park to be built without the benefit of a retractable dome, the shortsighted planners and voters eliminated the chance to give the Indians and the fans the best park it could be. Instead, the Jake has seen April attendance (and part of May) dwindle to the pathetic < 10K fans per game. The converse argument about during the 455 game sell out streak has merits, but the "perfect storm" that engendered the streak (browns leaving, cavs blowing, identifiable team leaders) doesn't exist and. most likely, never exist again. Truth be told, the Indians have a lease with the city that extends through the 2024 season. Without the benefit of a retractable dome and the lack of support for the team.. you can mark it down now.. the Indians could be on the move to greener pastures that WILL not skimp in upgrading the facilities for the club. BTW, just before the sin tax (money from alcohol and tobacco) that was used to build the "jake" was to be retired, the voters, with the aid of the not-directly-indemnified politicos and their marketing machine, decided to continue the tax which helped build Cleveland Browns Stadium. That 'extension' is set to expire in about three years. It would be a wise move to have the retractable dome plans with not to exceed costs in the back pocket of the elected leaders before that date.


I don't like the arguement that the city skimped out on a retractable roof ballpark. I don't believe there was a single retractable roof stadium in the US when designing started on the ballpark layout. Plus, the Browns backed out of the project, which left Jacobs Field to be a baseball only facility, not a multipurpose stadium like SkyDome was (the only retractable roof stadium in use at the time in baseball). The concept of a grass field, retractable roof ballpark hadn't been designed yet and was a few years off. Personally am very glad we got the open air, modern, grass field in Jacobs Field as opposed to the old 70s style astroturf they were stuck with in Toronto.

Would have been awesome to get a park like Miller Park...but again, that was a ways off in development/design. Can't fault the city for that one IMO.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 14, 2012 1:16 pm

The entire project was sold and marketed as coming with a lid. The facility was to be designed so it could be used for future events like political conventions and NCAA tournament type stuff along with bringing the Cavs back from Richfield and getting rid of Cleveland Municipal Stadium and the costs associated with operating the facility.

The dome concept was designed and introduced to the Cleveland "powers that be" in the 1985 time frame (there was some kind of narcissistic involvement with one of Dick Jacob's relatives being heavily involved in the program).. This occurred well in advance of when the Gateway Corporation built what became Jacob's Field. The price tag that included the dome ($ 172 MM including the cost for the land at the Central Market) & it was a retractable roof, so natural turf would be part of the program. The Jacob's Field project didn't have much change in the pricing ($ 175 MM).. there just wasn't a dome included. The tax payers of Cuyahoga County were coerced into believing the Indians would leave if the funding didn't get a positive vote.. In short, the tax payers got HOSED on the deal...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon May 14, 2012 8:10 pm

Interesting lineup tonight. Hanny out (bad back?), but interesting (and encouraging IMO) thing is Choo leading off. Not sure if this is because Damon is out of the lineup or if it's gonna be something we see regardless (hoping it's the latter). Also, not sure exactly why Damon isn't in the lineup (in lieu of Duncan) as Pavano is a righty, plus Damon is hititng .346 off him in his career. I know he's struggling, but not a fan of the righty-on-righty with Duncan...


Also, Jeremy Accardo added to the roster to replace Wheeler (also added to 40man).
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 14, 2012 8:25 pm

Okay.. so through the first inning.. it looks like Pavano has NOTHING.. 86 mph fastballs and 80 mph change ups.. the Indians should TATTOO him.. score early and often..

wow... Pronk put a charge into that one leading off the second inning...Well.. that rally fizzled...

btw.. Manning with his endless statistics stated that Pavano has a BAA in the .340 something against RHH while only .250 something against lefites.. That might be why the Hanny & Damon get to sit.. and Shelly & Jose get to play... JeanMar seems to be getting his fastball down tonight, but, can't find the plate with his slider.. he has to have that pitch to be most effective...

Well.. it's an unusual game.. Casey Kotchman hit a hard foul ball and CRUSHED a ball over the wall for a two run homer..

JeanMar isn't getting many close calls.. & he's all but abandoned his slider for the evening.. It's fastball up.. fastball down.. cut a fastball inside.. cut a fastball outside.. and that's all he has.. and has made it stand up.. If the Twins were a good hitting club, JeanMar would be in a heap of trouble.. but, alas.. that's not the case this evening..
Last edited by GeronimoSon on Mon May 14, 2012 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Mon May 14, 2012 9:15 pm

OMG - Casey HR!
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Mon May 14, 2012 9:50 pm

Kind of sad to see Joe Mauer get booed in Minnesota. The guy was a great player but the years of getting beat up behind the plate have taken their toll.

Liriano came in with a ERA over 9 and Manning talking about how he's a mechanical mess. No problem, he's also left-handed, so it was an easy 1-2-3 inning as expected.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Mon May 14, 2012 10:31 pm

Bullpen blows the lead. Vinnie is still having command issues, then Hagadone fell behind and grooved a fastball. New ballgame. And they specifically brought Hags in because the Twins switch-hitter has no HR's right-handed - and he promptly hits one.

Well, can't expect Hags to be perfect.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon May 14, 2012 10:39 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:btw.. Manning with his endless statistics stated that Pavano has a BAA in the .340 something against RHH while only .250 something against lefites.. That might be why the Hanny & Damon get to sit.. and Shelly & Jose get to play... JeanMar seems to be getting his fastball down tonight, but, can't find the plate with his slider.. he has to have that pitch to be most effective....


Hanny is out with a bad back, so that's why Lopez was in. Guess those numbers could be why Duncan was in there though...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 14, 2012 10:50 pm

Prosecutor wrote:Bullpen blows the lead. Vinnie is still having command issues, then Hagadone fell behind and grooved a fastball. New ballgame. And they specifically brought Hags in because the Twins switch-hitter has no HR's right-handed - and he promptly hits one.

Well, can't expect Hags to be perfect.


Hagadone showed his inexperience there.. He was just off the plate, outside on the first pitch.. then inside on the next one.. Instead of trusting his stuff.. he tried to throw a strike and got waaaaaaay too much of the plate.. Solid vet at bat for Doumit... there to get the cookie...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Mon May 14, 2012 11:14 pm

Kudos to Choo. I have been down on him lately.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Tue May 15, 2012 7:23 am

Choo comes throo. And saves Pestano and Hagadone's bacon. It's been a long time since I've seen a clutch hit out of this team.

Nice job by Rage to close it out.

Kotchman gets the winning rally started after slugging a two-run dinger earlier. About time. We need him to chip in with a little offense here and there.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Magneticnorth451 » Tue May 15, 2012 9:04 am

I'm happy to admit that I actually feel at ease when Chris Perez enters a game, and I haven't felt that way in a very long time.

Fastball is 94-95 with late life, and he's keeping hitters off-balance with his slider. He actually looks like a pitcher.
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