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Indians offseason moves

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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:21 pm

Homer.. well, here's hoping Little Luis hangs in there and finds his niche with the Jays.. he wasn't going to get much of an opportunity here..(imho.. that's a good thing)..
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:37 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:I agree with Tony, I actually like Valbuena. He might not be an everyday player but could be a useful piece particularly if he was in a decent lineup and given time.


Thing working against Valbuena though was hitting left-handed. Had he been a righty, would have been interesting to see if they'd have kept him. But with Donald and Phelps around, I can understand moving on from Valbuena. he was only ever going to be a backup in Cleveland. And really...Valbuena was no better than Jayson Nix, who the Blue Jays traded cash for last year. AAAA guy who does have some skills, but best as a bench guy. Do think he can be valuable to the right team though.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby indianinkslinger » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:40 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
homerawayfromhome wrote:I agree with Tony, I actually like Valbuena. He might not be an everyday player but could be a useful piece particularly if he was in a decent lineup and given time.


Thing working against Valbuena though was hitting left-handed. Had he been a righty, would have been interesting to see if they'd have kept him. But with Donald and Phelps around, I can understand moving on from Valbuena. he was only ever going to be a backup in Cleveland. And really...Valbuena was no better than Jayson Nix, who the Blue Jays traded cash for last year. AAAA guy who does have some skills, but best as a bench guy. Do think he can be valuable to the right team though.

I think you and Tony have the Valbuena situation analyzed correctly. I am more concerned about who will be DFA tomorrow to make room for Sizemore. Not sure anyone will clear waivers but won' be a huge loss either. DLC seems most likely to me but I am not ready to give up on him.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:16 pm

daingean wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
Chisenhall's time is now.. The Indians need to find out what they have with the Chiz at the hot corner. Having a real 3B for a change is going to make a difference for the better. Refinement?.. ID.K... it can't hurt.. or maybe it can?

Regarding Asdrubal's defense: He's more than adequate as a defensive SS and has proven that over and over. DAMN the UZR's and other so called defensive metrics that don't pass the eye test.. As far as the Indians are concerned, there is no concern about his defense. As far as why he's being 'discussed' as a trade candidate, it has to do with what the Indians have on the roster and what's coming up in the minors. Couple that with a handful of teams that are desperate for a SS with Asdrubal's glove and bat, have ML players and ML ready prospects in places where the Indians have a desperate need. This situation gives the Indians an incredibly valuable trade piece that can return the piece(s) the Indians lack for a real run at a central division championship or one of the two wild cards.

If a glove man at 3B is needed, Jack Hannahan is that guy.. The Indians also have Kyle "Bells" Bellows working his way toward the major leagues. Giovanni Urshela isn't bad with the leather, either.. BTW.. Hanny can also play 1B as a defensive replacement.. Hannahan is a corner utility guy with gold glove capability. Now that's a luxury few teams can boast..


Do not underestimate the "Web Gem" type plays Asdrubal makes and the subsequent energy the whole team has after them. In truth, Asdrubal did wear down during the season and his UZR suffered for it. Heck even the number of "Web Gems" Asdrubal were lower in the second half of the year. I think these make up for the defensive deficiencies.

Now with Chiz and Kip in the infield making throws (throws are certainly Chiz's weakest defensive asset), you could use a good defensive 1B. A good defensive 1B can make up for poor throws. This is why putting guys like Morse or Montero at 1B would be disastrous for this team and their chance to be contenders next year.


It is not just UZR which said Cabrera was an average to poor defender last year (UZR which is a stat front offices use more than any other public stat to measure defense). It actually IS the eye test which scouts say Cabrera was an average defender last year.

I do not want to move Cabrera off of shortstop as I think it hurts more than it helps....but all this "passing the eye test" stuff is bogus. People are basing it off of highlight plays....nevermind the 600+ other plays the player was involved in, his prepitch setup, his quickness to his left and right, his hands, footwork, etc. I haven't heard a scout from another org or a person from the Indians org say Cabrera was a "good" defender last year. Most of the comments are "average" or "needs to be better".
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby homerawayfromhome » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:29 pm

Mitch Talbot has reportedly signed to play in Korea.

Also, former Indians pitcher Jensen Lewis signed a minor league deal w/ Az Dbax earlier in the wk.

Btw, I have finals in school the next 10/12 days... If anyone would post winter mtgs rumors / rule 5 news it will be greatly appreciated. :)
Last edited by homerawayfromhome on Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby homerawayfromhome » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:33 pm

The Tribe has signed Matt Pagnozzi- C to a minor league deal with spring invite.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby indianinkslinger » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:18 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:The Tribe has signed Matt Pagnozzi- C to a minor league deal with spring invite.

Not a big time move but might signal that Chen might return to AA which I think he needs offensively and defensively. Pagnozzi would appear to be a better ML backup than what we have currently.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby TonyIBI » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:34 am

indianinkslinger wrote:
homerawayfromhome wrote:The Tribe has signed Matt Pagnozzi- C to a minor league deal with spring invite.

Not a big time move but might signal that Chen might return to AA which I think he needs offensively and defensively. Pagnozzi would appear to be a better ML backup than what we have currently.


Not sure what to make of this. From what I have heard Roberto Perez will move up to Akron next year. So I can't see how Chen stays there unless he is moving to 1B, and from what I have heard there the Indians are still committed to him as a catcher.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby MadThinker88 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:42 am

It sounds like there is a solid chance that Lou Marson gets moved at the meetings. I have to think as part of a package.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:07 am

Seems like an awful lot of catching depth. Someone is obviously on the move, question is who needs a starting catcher that can handle a pitching staff, and play very solid d.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby criznit2009 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:11 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:Seems like an awful lot of catching depth. Someone is obviously on the move, question is who needs a starting catcher that can handle a pitching staff, and play very solid d.


Other than Perez, Marson is probably the best trade chip Cleveland has value-wise. Marson is available, always has been in the right situation and now everyone knows it officially. Though I am awfully biased, I am starting to wonder if perhaps Cleveland has become the team that is most obvious in desiring a trade. Not a bad stradegy possibly considering there are goods to back it up -and we will see soon (before 2012/ST) how they decide 1B/OF. A failure to fix the biggest problem in the daily line-up, a RH hitter of some ability before the start of ST in 2012 will be 100% unacceptable to me.



A battery and some grab-bag sparkplugs. At the very least you'd slow down and "check it out".....
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:38 am

While i love the defense Marson brings to the table, I believe the fact Santana is a yr removed from the injury gives the Tribe more confidence to move Marson. Marson all star caliber defense doesnt hurt his value any, while I'd love to say keep him, he is a luxury this team can afford to 'trade in.'

Honestly, I'd almost rather see Raffy or Chris Perez moved but it could be (1 of the 2) are in a pkg deal with Marson.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby Rocky55 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:44 am

indianinkslinger wrote:
homerawayfromhome wrote:The Tribe has signed Matt Pagnozzi- C to a minor league deal with spring invite.

Not a big time move but might signal that Chen might return to AA which I think he needs offensively and defensively. Pagnozzi would appear to be a better ML backup than what we have currently.

Slinger, you must mean that Pags is better suited as a ML backup. Marson's better than this guy in every way. If he wasn't, teams would have just picked up Pagnozzi instead of trading for Marson. Defense up the middle is really important, especially in a backup. Marson might be a luxury item for the Tribe, a starting quality catcher as a backup, but I'll hate to lose him. He's a valuable guy.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby InsaneJedi » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:30 pm

Tony, do you know what's taking so long for the Indians to officially add Sizemore to the roster? The deal was struck last Wednesday, and he has still not been added. Doesn't the roster move usually have to happen within a few days of the signing? Or is this a signal that the Indians are working out a trade to free up roster space, and MLB has granted them extra time to complete it?
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:16 pm

InsaneJedi wrote:Tony, do you know what's taking so long for the Indians to officially add Sizemore to the roster? The deal was struck last Wednesday, and he has still not been added. Doesn't the roster move usually have to happen within a few days of the signing? Or is this a signal that the Indians are working out a trade to free up roster space, and MLB has granted them extra time to complete it?


Once a player signs a major league contract, then that player is automatically added to that teams major league 40 man roster. If the player agrees to a major league contract, this does not constitute signing a major league contract. The amount of time from agreeing to a contract and signing a contract is not readily defined. So, although the Indians and Grady Sizemore have an agreement in place, by not adding him to the 40 man roster and removing a player currently occupying the full 40 man roster, this indicates that the contract has not been signed.

Is this a risk?.. perhaps.. but there is only ONE CARLOS BOOOZER that I know of..
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:34 am

Rocky55 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
homerawayfromhome wrote:The Tribe has signed Matt Pagnozzi- C to a minor league deal with spring invite.

Not a big time move but might signal that Chen might return to AA which I think he needs offensively and defensively. Pagnozzi would appear to be a better ML backup than what we have currently.

Slinger, you must mean that Pags is better suited as a ML backup. Marson's better than this guy in every way. If he wasn't, teams would have just picked up Pagnozzi instead of trading for Marson. Defense up the middle is really important, especially in a backup. Marson might be a luxury item for the Tribe, a starting quality catcher as a backup, but I'll hate to lose him. He's a valuable guy.

Just right Rocky. Only way I want Pagnozzi in cleveland is injury to Marson or SAntana. Looks like better option in that event from what I see.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:51 am

I'd think if Marson is dealt the tribe will look to sign another backup catcher to a minor league deal or a minimal major league contract. Maybe a guy like Kelly Shoppach would sign a minor league deal JUST SAYING... He's. still got some pop in the bat. Matt Pagnozzi has hit for decent avg in limited action and hits RH.

I am glad too see the Tribe didn't pay the demands of the ROX for Chris Iannetta, whom the Tribe reportedly had been interested as late as the trade deadline. I personally feel the Tribes young pitching will be better spent in pkg type deals to maximize their value.

I'm curious about the rumors with the Tribe looking at Mark DeRosa and / Casey Blake... Jason Donald seems to fit that type of role, maybe it's the Tribe looking to do their due diligence and kick the tires on these guys or the genuinely want to add a utility type who might sign a minor league deal.

Fact of the matter is the Tribe has to go all in on a real bat, the names have been thrown around for a cpl months now. Im actually confident that CA will get something done to improve the lineup. CA has acted aggressively unlike the former regime, CA has been willing to gamble. I won't be shocked to see the Tribe announce a few deals in the next few wks. Particularly at the winter mtgs where the tribe is not usually active... I think we will see more than ground work laid. :pardon:
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby Edible14 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:04 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Seems like an awful lot of catching depth. Someone is obviously on the move, question is who needs a starting catcher that can handle a pitching staff, and play very solid d.


I thought the Indians would only need one minor league free agent catcher this off-season. I was expecting to see almost all of Hernandez, Padron, Carlin, Apodaca and Phillips go. Maybe they just want to have some options? Maybe they just want some more catchers for spring training?

In other news, the Indians are apparently checking in on old friend Casey Blake. Wouldn't be a bad idea, perhaps as a replacement for Shelley Duncan in the RH pinch-hitter who plays the corners role. What would be super is if we could get him on a minor league/spring training invite type of deal, so we could see if he's recovered from injury and productive before adding him at the expense of Duncan.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:30 pm

Edible14 wrote:
homerawayfromhome wrote:Seems like an awful lot of catching depth. Someone is obviously on the move, question is who needs a starting catcher that can handle a pitching staff, and play very solid d.


I thought the Indians would only need one minor league free agent catcher this off-season. I was expecting to see almost all of Hernandez, Padron, Carlin, Apodaca and Phillips go. Maybe they just want to have some options? Maybe they just want some more catchers for spring training?

In other news, the Indians are apparently checking in on old friend Casey Blake. Wouldn't be a bad idea, perhaps as a replacement for Shelley Duncan in the RH pinch-hitter who plays the corners role. What would be super is if we could get him on a minor league/spring training invite type of deal, so we could see if he's recovered from injury and productive before adding him at the expense of Duncan.

Either blake or derosa is capable of improving the defense Duncan prvides but it might be a lot to ask of injured vets their age to help the offense. Don't we have enough rehab projects already?
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:40 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:It sounds like there is a solid chance that Lou Marson gets moved at the meetings. I have to think as part of a package.


I am not sure. The fact they signed three minor league journeymen catchers shouldn't be the reason. None of those guys should be in the big leagues except as extreme depth options (3rd/4th catchers).

I do think Marson is a valuable trade and could be traded, but his availability has not changed just because they picked up Pagnozzi the other day. If they trade Marson they will need to pick up another catcher.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:45 pm

InsaneJedi wrote:Tony, do you know what's taking so long for the Indians to officially add Sizemore to the roster? The deal was struck last Wednesday, and he has still not been added. Doesn't the roster move usually have to happen within a few days of the signing? Or is this a signal that the Indians are working out a trade to free up roster space, and MLB has granted them extra time to complete it?


Teams don't have to disclose roster moves in the offseason. Only when final. For example, we all found out Trevor Crowe had been DFAed and cleared waivers and was outrighted to Columbus at the same time....but he had actually been DFAed a week before and no one knew. The Indians simply did not disclose that he had been DFAed and simply only released when he had cleared waivers and was outrighted.

Same thing is likely happening right now. Sizemore has signed his contract, and MLB supposedly approved it early last week....so if that is the case we should hear something about the 40-man move I would think sometime Monday or Tuesday. It's odd it has taken this long, but again, in the offseason the moves do not need to be immediately disclosed. The teams themselves already know of the transaction because of the private portal teams use for transactions (and absolutely cannot disclose to an outside source).
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:58 am

Former Met, Jose Reyes is now a Miami Marlin.. signing for 6 years and $ 106 MM.. Hanley Ramirez looks to be a player of interest in trade talks unless the Marlins move him to CF, which has been speculated..
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:23 am

Call it a pipe dream but the Tribe could swing an Asdrubal Cabrera for Hanley Ramierz deal... ACab could be their 2nd baseman and Hanley Ramirez the SS and RH bat the Tribe needs. The tribe might have to kick in a few prospects. Oh well, I can dream.

Although i do expect to see some sort of deal for a bat I seriously doubt it will be that level.

I'm curious if the Tribe would swing CPerez or even RPerez deal for a bat.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:07 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:Call it a pipe dream but the Tribe could swing an Asdrubal Cabrera for Hanley Ramierz deal... ACab could be their 2nd baseman and Hanley Ramirez the SS and RH bat the Tribe needs. The tribe might have to kick in a few prospects. Oh well, I can dream.

Although i do expect to see some sort of deal for a bat I seriously doubt it will be that level.

I'm curious if the Tribe would swing CPerez or even RPerez deal for a bat.


For a player that will be 28 in a couple of weeks, Hanley Ramirez's contract is strong, but not outrageously so. If Hanley was a FA, and he agreed to his current outstanding contract ( 2012 $15M, 2013 $15.5M, & 2014 $16M, he does not have a no-trade clause, so, a three year total of $ 46.5 MM), that would be a bargain. But he's not. And you have to add in the acquisition costs in terms of prospects..

You're right.. acquiring Hanley would be a pipe dream..

The Yankees are in the market for a second lefty out of their pen are supposed to have interest in CWSox Thornton. RPerez would fit that mold as well...
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:47 am

GeronimoSon wrote:Former Met, Jose Reyes is now a Miami Marlin.. signing for 6 years and $ 106 MM.. Hanley Ramirez looks to be a player of interest in trade talks unless the Marlins move him to CF, which has been speculated..


Doubt he is traded. Reports are that he is already fine with moving to 3B.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby Magneticnorth451 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:48 am

Now that the Mets are finally forced into a youth movement rebuild, it would make sense for them to shop David Wright and his 15.25 MIL dollar contract. Tony recently tweeted that he thinks he would be a good fit for the Indians, but at what position?

Looking at David Wright's career one can easily see that he has been a 3B the entire time, and an elite one in the past. If the Indians are truly comitted to having Lonnie Chisenhall as their full-time 3B, then the Indians can possibly swing David Wright to 1B where he can do his best Michael Young impression. If they still want Chisenhall to get some seasoning at AAA, then David Wright fits comfortably at 3B, too.

The Mets' asking price for David Wright may be a little steep as they'll be shopping the notion of David Wright the Superstar, instead of David Wright the Very Good But Not Great Player. He's going to be 30 next year, and his prime years (and best years) are clearly behind him. If I were CA, I would not overpay, and I would still have the Mets eat some of his salary, so the likelyhood a deal would get done are slim, but Wright would be a definite improvement to the 2012 Indians, and provides a "name" player the casual fans can go to the ballpark and watch play... assuming he doesn't break his back again.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:52 am

Yeah, I would think the Indians will be interested in Wright. The fact they have Chisenhall should not affect anything. Wright is only signed for 2 more years max and even with Chisenhall here would not necessarily block him that long. I'd be much more comfortable with Wright out there at 3B in 2012 than Chisenhall just because I know what to expect. Plus, Chisenhall could still use some more time in the minors.

I've also heard that Chisenhall could end up in the OF down the road if need be, so that is something they could start toying with this spring if they picked up a 3B in a trade/FA. And as suggested, Wright could also potentially be an option for 1B.

Should be a fun week.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:03 am

Heyman tweeting that the Astros are willing to "eat most of Carlos Lee's salary"

Just food for thought.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby Magneticnorth451 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:07 am

Not sure who I'd rather see the Indians acquire for next year, David Wright or Carlos Lee. C-Lee is likely the easier trade to pull off, but I trust Wright's production a bit more. Carlos Lee had a negative value year in 2010, which is a bit concerning, and all too recent.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:15 am

Magneticnorth451 wrote:Not sure who I'd rather see the Indians acquire for next year, David Wright or Carlos Lee. C-Lee is likely the easier trade to pull off, but I trust Wright's production a bit more. Carlos Lee had a negative value year in 2010, which is a bit concerning, and all too recent.


Wright would be a welcome addition, I'm just worried about his back long term, even in just a 2 year window. He returned from a stress fracture in his back, and played well. Back injuries just scare me, probably because of my own problems and surgery I had to correct them.

I recall Wright talking in interviews about how he would have to change his strength training due to his back 'feeling' different. Not sure if that was just while he was getting back into baseball shape or if it was a long term plan for him.

Lee would be easier to acquire in theory, but if LaPorta doesn't show anything in 2012 (and if he's even around beyond then) the Indians would again be facing the need of some right handed pop in the lineup.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:17 am

Magneticnorth451 wrote:Not sure who I'd rather see the Indians acquire for next year, David Wright or Carlos Lee. C-Lee is likely the easier trade to pull off, but I trust Wright's production a bit more. Carlos Lee had a negative value year in 2010, which is a bit concerning, and all too recent.


I'd certainly be interested in Lee if the Astros eat most of his salary, though I would opt to pay some of it as well to make sure we don't have to part with too much. According to UZR, Lee was an above-average 1st baseman last season (and also an above-average LF'er, so it take it with a grain of salt) and could be a .800 OPS player. There's always the chance of him completely breaking down, but you could also catch lightning in a bottle and have him regaining his old White Sox form.

Definately an interesting option.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:40 pm

Jerry Crasnick tweets that the Indians are/were among 9 teams interested in Josh Willingham.

Then goes on to list (funny enough) the Red Sox and Twins as being good fits because....they're left handed hitting heavy :bomb:
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:16 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:Jerry Crasnick tweets that the Indians are/were among 9 teams interested in Josh Willingham.

Then goes on to list (funny enough) the Red Sox and Twins as being good fits because....they're left handed hitting heavy :bomb:


I also saw that the Red Sox and Twins view Willingham as a backup plan since they're trying to re-sign Ortiz and Cuddyer respectively.

Willingham would make sense for us as a 1st baseman (though he has limited experience there) if his contract demands are reasonable. I'd expect him to sign somewhere along the lines of a 3-year $25M-30M deal.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:18 pm

Jon Morosi tweeted these today

#Indians focused on either a first baseman or complementary outfielder, source says. Remember: They claimed Jason Kubel in August.


and

#Indians are a very left-handed club, which could make Derrek Lee a good fit for them at 1B. But he's had his best success in NL."
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:23 pm

JP_Frost wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:Jerry Crasnick tweets that the Indians are/were among 9 teams interested in Josh Willingham.

Then goes on to list (funny enough) the Red Sox and Twins as being good fits because....they're left handed hitting heavy :bomb:


I also saw that the Red Sox and Twins view Willingham as a backup plan since they're trying to re-sign Ortiz and Cuddyer respectively.

Willingham would make sense for us as a 1st baseman (though he has limited experience there) if his contract demands are reasonable. I'd expect him to sign somewhere along the lines of a 3-year $25M-30M deal.


Given that he's rumored to have received this much attention, he could easily net $25M.

Bastian tweeting that the Indians interest has been 'mild' which would make sense if Willingham is drawing so much attention. Can't outbit that many teams.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:26 pm

Unless you offer him a 4th year, but that's not a smart move imo.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:40 pm

Rumors of tribes interest in Casey Kotchman. I'd prefer Jason Kubel myself if there going to spend on a LH Bat.
Although Kubel would cost $ more.

I think someone else has mentioned him but I think Chase Headley 3b / LF and switch hitter could potentially play some 1b too and could be had for the right price.

Still think we see the Tribe work out a deal over the next wk.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:09 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Rumors of tribes interest in Casey Kotchman. I'd prefer Jason Kubel myself if there going to spend on a LH Bat.
Although Kubel would cost $ more.

I think someone else has mentioned him but I think Chase Headley 3b / LF and switch hitter could potentially play some 1b too and could be had for the right price.

Still think we see the Tribe work out a deal over the next wk.


Homer.. Yes.. His name was brought up and was summarily shot down as Chase Headley, a natural 3B isn't an accomplished defender in the OF: He had 8 errors over the two years he played in the OF, 5 fielding error/3 throwing errors in about 380 chances or a 0.979 Fielding Percentage. <shrugs>.. He's what may be considered an adequate OF'er, nothing special.. Not exactly a butcher, but not in any danger of winning a Fielding Bible award.. He'd be able to fill in at 3B, DH and play the outfield, from a versatility perspective..
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:36 pm

If the Indians DFA Hector Rondon (to create room on the 40 man roster for Grady Sizemore) and expose him to the Rule V draft..it's doubtful he'll be selected.. coming off TJ surgery, hasn't really performed much in the last two seasons.. Stashing him on the ML DL is not a good use of a teams resources... So, if a team is dumb enought to select him, he'll be returned..
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:39 pm

This may be a bit off topic, but I've always wondered how these winter meetings really work. I have this image of 30-50 people sitting in a conference room screaming at each other, slipping each other notes with trade proposals on them, assistant GM's running out of the room juggling 3 cell phones, etc. Obviously this isn't how it works (I hope), but could someone who's been somewhat close to it or knows more about setting paint me a picture?
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby ClevelandBlues » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:56 pm

JP_Frost wrote:
Magneticnorth451 wrote:Not sure who I'd rather see the Indians acquire for next year, David Wright or Carlos Lee. C-Lee is likely the easier trade to pull off, but I trust Wright's production a bit more. Carlos Lee had a negative value year in 2010, which is a bit concerning, and all too recent.


I'd certainly be interested in Lee if the Astros eat most of his salary, though I would opt to pay some of it as well to make sure we don't have to part with too much. According to UZR, Lee was an above-average 1st baseman last season (and also an above-average LF'er, so it take it with a grain of salt) and could be a .800 OPS player. There's always the chance of him completely breaking down, but you could also catch lightning in a bottle and have him regaining his old White Sox form.

Definately an interesting option.


If we aquired Lee, I would not be surprised if his numbers improved slightly. Down the stretch last season the Astros were going with a lineup full of unproven players. With better hitters surrounding him, I'd imagine he would get pitched around a lot less.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby daingean » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:18 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:If the Indians DFA Hector Rondon (to create room on the 40 man roster for Grady Sizemore) and expose him to the Rule V draft..it's doubtful he'll be selected.. coming off TJ surgery, hasn't really performed much in the last two seasons.. Stashing him on the ML DL is not a good use of a teams resources... So, if a team is dumb enought to select him, he'll be returned..


Except if they DFA Hector, all a team has to do is claim him. They would then not have to keep him on the ML roster all season. Why pay $50K to stash him when you can get him for free?
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:30 pm

daingean wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:If the Indians DFA Hector Rondon (to create room on the 40 man roster for Grady Sizemore) and expose him to the Rule V draft..it's doubtful he'll be selected.. coming off TJ surgery, hasn't really performed much in the last two seasons.. Stashing him on the ML DL is not a good use of a teams resources... So, if a team is dumb enought to select him, he'll be returned..


Except if they DFA Hector, all a team has to do is claim him. They would then not have to keep him on the ML roster all season. Why pay $50K to stash him when you can get him for free?

That is my understanding of the DFA as well. All a team would need is 40 space or willingness to Dfa one of their 40. Think. I would rather expose DLC but the Indians know medical status of players better than anyone.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:33 am

indianinkslinger wrote:
daingean wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:If the Indians DFA Hector Rondon (to create room on the 40 man roster for Grady Sizemore) and expose him to the Rule V draft..it's doubtful he'll be selected.. coming off TJ surgery, hasn't really performed much in the last two seasons.. Stashing him on the ML DL is not a good use of a teams resources... So, if a team is dumb enought to select him, he'll be returned..


Except if they DFA Hector, all a team has to do is claim him. They would then not have to keep him on the ML roster all season. Why pay $50K to stash him when you can get him for free?

That is my understanding of the DFA as well. All a team would need is 40 space or willingness to Dfa one of their 40. Think. I would rather expose DLC but the Indians know medical status of players better than anyone.


Correct.

I'm getting a strong feeling Rondon will in fact be the DFA. No confirmed word on that, but talking to some people today he did have a setback pitching in winter ball and has not pitched in a month. He is shut down and being evaluated and more is supposed to be known about him on Tuesday, which conveniently is the day the Indians hope to release the information on what player was DFAed.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby artgold » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:17 am

For what it's worth:

During a session with reporters in his suite at the Hilton Anatole on Tuesday, Indians general manager Chris Antonetti claimed to have one trade proposal in the works that would be very surprising if it came to fruition. Antonetti smiled as he declined to delve into any specifics.

He was content with lobbing the major tease and letting it linger in the air.



http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... b&c_id=mlb
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:58 am

At the MLB.com Indians page, there was mention of Michael Brantley being asked to bring his first baseman's glove to spring training. Michael Brantley has played some 1B while in the Milwaukee minor league system, so, he has some experience at the spot.. In the comments section for the same article, "Commentor", usually a pretty negative guy, suggested that the Indians were stoooopid to consider having Brantley get accustomed to first base as his wheels in the outfield are more than adequate. He implied that Brantley's ability to play CF defensively was superior to that of Grady Sizemore. He further suggested that Grady Sizemore get a first baseman's glove.. His wheels aren't what they used to be in CF and could be an asset at 1B, i.e. a power hitting first baseman.

As usual, the comments in reply to the suggestion said Grady has never played 1B.. has no experience at 1B.. what are you thinking.. are you a moron.. yada yada yada..

On the face of it, seems to make some sense. Grady not having to run.. Grady not having to throw.. Grady's potent bat in the lineup could work..

Comments...
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:00 am

artgold wrote:For what it's worth:

During a session with reporters in his suite at the Hilton Anatole on Tuesday, Indians general manager Chris Antonetti claimed to have one trade proposal in the works that would be very surprising if it came to fruition. Antonetti smiled as he declined to delve into any specifics.

He was content with lobbing the major tease and letting it linger in the air.



http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... b&c_id=mlb


Let the speculation begin !

*(Btw.. a good publicity move by CA.. You know what they say, in show business. any publicity is good publicity...)
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby Edible14 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:36 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:At the MLB.com Indians page, there was mention of Michael Brantley being asked to bring his first baseman's glove to spring training. Michael Brantley has played some 1B while in the Milwaukee minor league system, so, he has some experience at the spot.. In the comments section for the same article, "Commentor", usually a pretty negative guy, suggested that the Indians were stoooopid to consider having Brantley get accustomed to first base as his wheels in the outfield are more than adequate. He implied that Brantley's ability to play CF defensively was superior to that of Grady Sizemore. He further suggested that Grady Sizemore get a first baseman's glove.. His wheels aren't what they used to be in CF and could be an asset at 1B, i.e. a power hitting first baseman.

As usual, the comments in reply to the suggestion said Grady has never played 1B.. has no experience at 1B.. what are you thinking.. are you a moron.. yada yada yada..

On the face of it, seems to make some sense. Grady not having to run.. Grady not having to throw.. Grady's potent bat in the lineup could work..

Comments...


Grady is pretty widely considered an above-average fielder in CF, when he's healthy. Brantley, I keep hearing mixed reviews about. While his speed is nice, speed isn't everything. There's also positioning, getting a break on the ball, etc. For what it's worth, Brantley has never put up a positive UZR in CF, but did put up a positive UZR in LF last year. Defensively, he could be a lot like Carl Crawford. I think that's the reason he was playing LF while the likes of Carrera and Crowe were playing CF (IIRC, didn't Fukudome get a start in CF ahead of him?).

That being said, no idea why they'd want Brantley at 1B. He's a good defender in LF, and whatever bat they bring in would probably be worse at the position. I mean, if they sign Willingham, it makes a lot more sense to have him play 1B and Brantley LF in my eyes. In order to justify Brantley's bat at 1B, he'd have to make either a gigantic leap in production or instantly be the best defensive 1B in the league, neither of which are likely. Putting him at 1B just means that they'll be looking for more production out of that spot come mid-season. I think that would pretty much sabotage a promising career.

And if they want him to get time just to be a backup... why? They'll likely have Duncan (or a replacement like Blake/DeRosa) to play there, and they also have Hannahan and Santana able to play there in a pinch.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:08 pm

Wow how people take things to the extreme. Brantley is not being looked at 1B as a possible solution to fill the position. He is simply an option to CONSIDER for next year to add versatility to the lineup, especially if they acquire an outfielder. He would only play 20-30 games max, if even that and they would still need to get an every day 1B option or so with Santana/LaPorta/Duncan as the main option there.

As for Sizemore, absolutely no chance he plays 1B. He resigned with the Indians because we gave him the opportunity to play center field everyday, something we promised, to rebuild his market value. If he plays first base it severely hinders his chances for a big contract next offseason. To get that deal he has to play center field, stay healthy, and play well.
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Re: Indians offseason moves

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:35 pm

Yeah I took it as meaning he'd get some looks there but by no means would start. While Brantley doesn't have the power you want in LFer....he clearly doesn't have it for 1B either, and at least he's a solid defensive LFer.

And I know a lot of people on here (and other sites) love Brantley...but the guy has really looked like a 4th outfielder to this point. He's obviously still young and showed signs of breaking out last year, but he is gonna be arbitration eligible next year (most likely) and he really needs to step up this year, IMO as much as LaPorta does, or risk losing his starting job. Getting him some versatility and playing some 1B would help should he not be up to the task of starting. Still expect to see him in LF a lot (while spelling Grady in CF at times) though in 2012....barring a trade.
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