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Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ClevelandBlues » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:02 pm

Hermie13 wrote:The Casino....meh, I have my doubts how much this will help.


I think you might be right long term, but I could see a short term attendance boost when it first opens. I bet a lot of people in the region will take a weekend trip to check the place out, and I am sure many will go see an Indians game while they are in town. Hopefully it opens on time though and does not get delayed until after the season is over.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ironmike » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:56 pm

No draft picks? That would be a good question for Tony to ask Shapiro when he desperately tries to defend his ill fated reign as GM.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:32 pm

Pork Chop Pough wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
ironmike wrote:Ted Cox agree with you.

Geronimo, again you are to, too, two quick with the keyboard diarreha. Referring to lack of prospects (outfielders) who hit RH in the upper minor league levels. When and who was the last home grown outfield prospect we have had who hit with power RH? Manny?

There has to be a couple but I can't thing of any at the moment.
Keyboard diarhea?..moi? :shok:

I don't segregate "home grown" ( i.e. drafted & developed) from developed in the Indians minor league system. So, for example. Grady Sizemore was a Low Class A player when he was acquired so many years ago.. he wasn't drafted by the Indians.. but, no one can doubt he is an Indians.. Same goes for Shin-soo Choo.. he may have had 20 plate appearances in the ML's with the Mariners.. he wasn't a ML'er when he was acquired (he's about the limit for my personal interpretation). Michael Brantley.. not home grown.. but developed by the Indians.. Thomas Neal.. if he makes his ML debut.. with be developed by the Indians.

In answer to Iron Mike's specific question, the last RH power hitting outfielder to come out of the Indians system I can think of is Richie Sexson (and technically he came up as a first baseman). Right-handed power at any position... Brandon Phillips? Geronimo Son didn't name a RH hitter aside from Thomas Neal. They've had better luck with switch-hitters.

Matt Whitney.

Edit: Signed or drafted? Taylor Sparks, drafted not signed, 2011 Draft.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ironmike » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:51 am

I like Russ Canzler so far. One hit in 3 AB's and his K-BB ratio is 1 to 1 in MLB. He'll be a household word if he can maintain this path.
Last edited by ironmike on Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby daingean » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:02 pm

ironmike wrote:I like Russ Ganzler so far. One hit in 3 AB's and his K-BB ratio is 1 to 1 in MLB. He'll be a household word if he can maintain this path.


http://rays.scout.com/2/1124811.html

Here's a scouting report on Canzler. It's not unheard of for a guy to put it all together after 7 years of minor league ball. Another body to compete at 1B. Otherwise we have a 1B/3B/LF/RF type guy whose really on viable defensive position is 1B.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby JP_Frost » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:06 pm

ironmike wrote:I like Russ Ganzler so far. One hit in 3 AB's and his K-BB ratio is 1 to 1 in MLB. He'll be a household word if he can maintain this path.


I know right, those 3 AB's are really an indication of what he could in the majors :crazy:
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:23 pm

daingean wrote:
ironmike wrote:I like Russ Ganzler so far. One hit in 3 AB's and his K-BB ratio is 1 to 1 in MLB. He'll be a household word if he can maintain this path.


http://rays.scout.com/2/1124811.html

Here's a scouting report on Canzler. It's not unheard of for a guy to put it all together after 7 years of minor league ball. Another body to compete at 1B. Otherwise we have a 1B/3B/LF/RF type guy whose really on viable defensive position is 1B.


Have you seen him play the OF? Just curious. Never seen him play there personally, but his minor league numbers indicate he should be a ok defensively in LF (very small sample size though)
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ironmike » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:28 pm

Again, Frosty you missed the point.

Now on to the regular post

Keep in mind Canzler had a great season playing regularly. It would seem to be difficult for a young player like Canzler with no MLB experience to achieve any kind of consistency playing a role off the bench. Meaning, if he doesn't play regularly he would be better serving himself and the organization playing at Columbus.

Can any one provide link to minor league career stats for Canzler.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby daingean » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:33 pm

ironmike wrote:Again, Frosty you missed the point.

Now on to the regular post

Keep in mind Canzler had a great season playing regularly. It would seem to be difficult for a young player like Canzler with no MLB experience to achieve any kind of consistency playing a role off the bench. Meaning, if he doesn't play regularly he would be better serving himself and the organization playing at Columbus.

Can any one provide link to minor league career stats for Canzler.



http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=canzle001rus
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ironmike » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:07 pm

Thanks for the link.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby jellis » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:06 pm

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minor ... nes-002gar

When I heard of the trade I thought of Garret Jones right away, anyone else have that thought
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby JP_Frost » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:51 pm

ironmike wrote:Again, Frosty you missed the point.

Now on to the regular post

Keep in mind Canzler had a great season playing regularly. It would seem to be difficult for a young player like Canzler with no MLB experience to achieve any kind of consistency playing a role off the bench. Meaning, if he doesn't play regularly he would be better serving himself and the organization playing at Columbus.

Can any one provide link to minor league career stats for Canzler.


No I didn't. You said you liked Canzler so far based on 3 AB's. That's ridiculous. And since you asked for his minor league stats, I figure you're not familiar with those either, making your initial preference even more shallow.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ironmike » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:54 pm

Hey Frost, relax it was a joke.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:17 pm

jellis wrote:http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=jones-002gar

When I heard of the trade I thought of Garret Jones right away, anyone else have that thought


I was thinking more Blake since he played some 3B and is a righty...but Jones seems like a good comp.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GhostofTedCox » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:29 pm

So here we are. About 3 weeks to ST. The objectives for the off-season were to:
1. Add a RH bat. Preferably at 1B (Failed)
2. Clarify CF situation. (Signed Sizemore)
3. Add to back end of SP. (Added Lowe, Slowey. lost Carmona/Henandez).

With Carmona/Hernandez on the restricted list, and never likely to wear an Indians uniform again, we do have around $7 million to play with. The Indians will likely sit on it and see what happens during the season.

Two other options might include signing Edwin Jackson or Cespedes. Adding Jackson would give us easily the best pitching staff in the division, and rival some other high payroll clubs. Nice to have if you want to contend this season. But Cespedes is a talent in a position of need. Personally I can't see him playing at a major league level untill the 2nd half at the earliest. My vote would be for Cespedes. But I would be happy either way.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:58 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:So here we are. About 3 weeks to ST. The objectives for the off-season were to:
1. Add a RH bat. Preferably at 1B (Failed)
2. Clarify CF situation. (Signed Sizemore)
3. Add to back end of SP. (Added Lowe, Slowey. lost Carmona/Henandez).

With Carmona/Hernandez on the restricted list, and never likely to wear an Indians uniform again, we do have around $7 million to play with. The Indians will likely sit on it and see what happens during the season.

Two other options might include signing Edwin Jackson or Cespedes. Adding Jackson would give us easily the best pitching staff in the division, and rival some other high payroll clubs. Nice to have if you want to contend this season. But Cespedes is a talent in a position of need. Personally I can't see him playing at a major league level untill the 2nd half at the earliest. My vote would be for Cespedes. But I would be happy either way.


Should just say sign a bat as the Indians never really cared if it was RH or LH, only fans did. Agree though, been disappointed that we haven't added something to 1B. Still some time left though...but not much.

I do agree that Jackson should be a target. Disagree slightly that it gives us "easily the best" rotation in the division. Think people are still vastly underselling the Tigers front 3 in Verlander, Fister, and Scherzer. Would give us a very solid front 3 though that could go toe-to-toe with them. If reports are true that the Red Sox only offered 1 yr and $5-6M....wow. I'd have no issues offering a 1yr/$10M deal. He's better than Carmona who we were willing to give $7M and on really is better than Westbrook who we gave $11M a year a while ago. We'd have to overpay some to get Jackson here but sounds like he's been lowballed by most teams not named the Orioles....if the Tribe was willing to take a chance on him, sounds like we have a legit shot at signing him. Personally would prefer him over Oswalt (who the Indians checked in on). Jackson has pitched in the AL Central each of the past 3 seasons and done well all 3 times.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby daingean » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:34 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
Should just say sign a bat as the Indians never really cared if it was RH or LH, only fans did. Agree though, been disappointed that we haven't added something to 1B. Still some time left though...but not much.

I do agree that Jackson should be a target. Disagree slightly that it gives us "easily the best" rotation in the division. Think people are still vastly underselling the Tigers front 3 in Verlander, Fister, and Scherzer. Would give us a very solid front 3 though that could go toe-to-toe with them. If reports are true that the Red Sox only offered 1 yr and $5-6M....wow. I'd have no issues offering a 1yr/$10M deal. He's better than Carmona who we were willing to give $7M and on really is better than Westbrook who we gave $11M a year a while ago. We'd have to overpay some to get Jackson here but sounds like he's been lowballed by most teams not named the Orioles....if the Tribe was willing to take a chance on him, sounds like we have a legit shot at signing him. Personally would prefer him over Oswalt (who the Indians checked in on). Jackson has pitched in the AL Central each of the past 3 seasons and done well all 3 times.


I personally would rather sit on the money and see what we need at mid-season. I know we risk falling out of contention but even with Jackson, I see us falling out of contention if we don't get good years out of Choo, Santana, Kipnis, Cabrerra, Sizemore, Brantley, LaPorta/Duncan/Canzler, and Chisenhall (at least 5 of those guys). With the fragility of this line-up (esp. Sizemore and Hafner but add in Choo, Santana, Brantley - all who have spent considerable time on the DL in the last 2 years) it would be better to have that flexibility to make a move mid-season. I think our pitching staff top to bottom is strong as I believe we have the BP and the game has changed to where the 4th and 5th guy (especially the 2nd and 3rd lefty) in a BP is very valuable (I also believe Valverde will have a Jose Mesa type fall off from last year).

Edit: Add Donald to my list of guys they need good years from and to the secondary fragile list.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ironmike » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:22 pm

Load up now and play EVERY game to WIN right out of the gate. Absurd to think any other way. This ain't t-ball.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:56 pm

A story defining a possible pardon to Fausto Carmona was listed by Rotoworld from Dominican Today. While it's still too early to say, there is at least an outside chance BOB may be pardoned and given his life as a ML pitcher back. When this occurs.. how it occurs.. etc.. wasn't clear from the article..but it's a step in a favorable direction...
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby daingean » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:13 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:A story defining a possible pardon to Fausto Carmona was listed by Rotoworld from Dominican Today. While it's still too early to say, there is at least an outside chance BOB may be pardoned and given his life as a ML pitcher back. When this occurs.. how it occurs.. etc.. wasn't clear from the article..but it's a step in a favorable direction...


F-Bob would still need to get a visa to work in the US (as his old visa has somebody else's name). That usually takes a while. Then there is the penalty baseball will throw his way.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby artgold » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:24 am

Hmmm, based on his now known history, and the governments in that area, I wouldn't be surprised if a little bit of money might "fix" the "misunderstanding"...
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:43 am

artgold wrote:Hmmm, based on his now known history, and the governments in that area, I wouldn't be surprised if a little bit of money might "fix" the "misunderstanding"...

Yeah, that always works in the USA as well. If he donates to all reelection campaigns for congress, we would probably send a seal team in to get him. :good:
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby artgold » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:05 am

indianinkslinger wrote:
artgold wrote:Hmmm, based on his now known history, and the governments in that area, I wouldn't be surprised if a little bit of money might "fix" the "misunderstanding"...

Yeah, that always works in the USA as well. If he donates to all reelection campaigns for congress, we would probably send a seal team in to get him. :good:


Hope nobody on the Obama team picks up this idea from you on one of their frequent Google searches, you may end up on ESPN.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:14 am

One thing I have been thinking about, and planned to touch on this Sunday in my notebook, is the absence of long term deals really seems to be clearing the decks of payroll obligations to make this team more attractive for a sale. Look at beyond this season....not one guaranteed contract. And the Indians have been stern about not going more than 2 years on any player this offseason. There are rumors out there the team may be for sale....and when you look at the payroll setup of this team you begin to wonder.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:06 am

TonyIPI wrote:There are rumors out there the team may be for sale....and when you look at the payroll setup of this team you begin to wonder.


Not doubting the possibility of this could very well be in the cards sooner rather than later...but just wondering where this is coming from? Not like this is something that Jordan Bastian or to a lesser extent, Paul Hoynes is writing about these days.

:drinks:
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:40 am

indianinkslinger wrote:
artgold wrote:Hmmm, based on his now known history, and the governments in that area, I wouldn't be surprised if a little bit of money might "fix" the "misunderstanding"...

Yeah, that always works in the USA as well. If he donates to all reelection campaigns for congress, we would probably send a seal team in to get him. :good:


Joe Biden would be against the SEAL incursion...
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:58 am

GoTribe028 wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:There are rumors out there the team may be for sale....and when you look at the payroll setup of this team you begin to wonder.


Not doubting the possibility of this could very well be in the cards sooner rather than later...but just wondering where this is coming from? Not like this is something that Jordan Bastian or to a lesser extent, Paul Hoynes is writing about these days.

:drinks:

Me too. And who would buy? Is Dolan going to take a $400M bath when MLB guarantees him profit just for putting a team on the field? Think I will wait to see what they do with all the payroll after the cuts at the end of 2012 before I jump on the sale bandwagon. Could be but I am not convinced! :pleasantry:
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:19 am

indianinkslinger wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:There are rumors out there the team may be for sale....and when you look at the payroll setup of this team you begin to wonder.


Not doubting the possibility of this could very well be in the cards sooner rather than later...but just wondering where this is coming from? Not like this is something that Jordan Bastian or to a lesser extent, Paul Hoynes is writing about these days.

:drinks:

Me too. And who would buy? Is Dolan going to take a $400M bath when MLB guarantees him profit just for putting a team on the field? Think I will wait to see what they do with all the payroll after the cuts at the end of 2012 before I jump on the sale bandwagon. Could be but I am not convinced! :pleasantry:


Mr Dolan has proclaimed adamantly that the club is not for sale.. There is no indication that he has any intention of selling the club. Mr Dolan hasn't lied to the public.. and continues to be a business first owner.. The lack of long term commitments can be looked at two ways:

1. Many of the players that are on the roster are either so young that they do not merit long term commitments or they are just entering into their ARB I year. With the advent of the Westbrook, Hafner and Grady extensions, the Indians may be gun shy of long term commitments. Also, long term commitments in the past were typically three years with possibly a fourth year option. In today's baseball world.. 8 and 9 and 10 year deals are being struck without concern for the long term consequences. IT'S INSANE.

2. Minimizing long term commitments allows the Indians to have payroll flexibility. If a player is performing, the Indians keep that guy for his 6 year ML control, maybe longer.. If they're not.. see ya.. There is no better situation from the standpoint of flexibility in baseball for a GM to have a payroll target figure of $ 70-80 MM with $ 20 MM committed.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby daingean » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:00 am

GeronimoSon wrote:Mr Dolan has proclaimed adamantly that the club is not for sale.. There is no indication that he has any intention of selling the club. Mr Dolan hasn't lied to the public.. and continues to be a business first owner.. The lack of long term commitments can be looked at two ways:

1. Many of the players that are on the roster are either so young that they do not merit long term commitments or they are just entering into their ARB I year. With the advent of the Westbrook, Hafner and Grady extensions, the Indians may be gun shy of long term commitments. Also, long term commitments in the past were typically three years with possibly a fourth year option. In today's baseball world.. 8 and 9 and 10 year deals are being struck without concern for the long term consequences. IT'S INSANE.

2. Minimizing long term commitments allows the Indians to have payroll flexibility. If a player is performing, the Indians keep that guy for his 6 year ML control, maybe longer.. If they're not.. see ya.. There is no better situation from the standpoint of flexibility in baseball for a GM to have a payroll target figure of $ 70-80 MM with $ 20 MM committed.


Teams do not have to be for sale to be sold. Also LD is 80 years old and may be preparing to transfer ownership to his children. Also, I think the Indians were seriously bitten hard by the Hafner contract and how it affected management of the team (budget issues). I don't think the team is for sale or will be sold but the possibility is always there.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:33 pm

There has been stuff in the last 6 months that STO may be up for sale, and behind the scenes there is a belief that ownership may consider a sale of the team. Doesn't mean they will, but it is something that when you connect the dots, appears like it could happen. As to who would buy the team, look across the way from Progressive Field and see The Q....Dan Gilbert is buying up lots of Cleveland teams, has a new casino, wanted to buy the Brewers before he bought the Cavs, and so on.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Magneticnorth451 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:53 pm

According to the Internets, Dan Gilbert's Net Worth is 1.5 Billion dollars, so he has deep pockets.

If he is willing to spend on the Indians, and take a hit on his pocketbook, then I'd love to see him as the Indians owner.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:54 pm

TonyIPI wrote:There has been stuff in the last 6 months that STO may be up for sale, and behind the scenes there is a belief that ownership may consider a sale of the team. Doesn't mean they will, but it is something that when you connect the dots, appears like it could happen. As to who would buy the team, look across the way from Progressive Field and see The Q....Dan Gilbert is buying up lots of Cleveland teams, has a new casino, wanted to buy the Brewers before he bought the Cavs, and so on.


Would make sense for Gilbert to attempt his own sort of Monopoly. Might be a pipe dream but consider what has gone on in Detroit with the Tigers, Red Wings (and just for fun, Little Ceasars Pizza) all being owned under one roof, it might not be far fetched for someone like Gilbert to be an option AND one that can suppliment a franchise's income in more than just gate/ad revenue and merch.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ACrank » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:52 pm

TonyIPI wrote:There has been stuff in the last 6 months that STO may be up for sale, and behind the scenes there is a belief that ownership may consider a sale of the team. Doesn't mean they will, but it is something that when you connect the dots, appears like it could happen. As to who would buy the team, look across the way from Progressive Field and see The Q....Dan Gilbert is buying up lots of Cleveland teams, has a new casino, wanted to buy the Brewers before he bought the Cavs, and so on.


Correct me if i am wrong, but originally wasn't it Dolan Senior's plan to buy the Cavs as well as the Indians and then set up STO to broadcast both teams? Could Gilbert be interested in doing the same? Does anyone know when the Cavs contract w/ Fox Sports Ohio is done?
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GhostofTedCox » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:14 pm

It seems awfully curious that the Indians have very minimal contractual obligations after this season. There are options to pick up, but no multi-year contracts. That may have been the hindrance with doing major deals this off-season.

I think if they sign ACab to just a 1-year deal, that will be another clue. Why wouldn't you sign him to a 2-3 year? I also haven't heard about any negotiations with Choo.

If the Dolans sell to Gilbert, we should have a parade. :yahoo: He is not afraid to invest money because he wants to compete. He also likes to compete with Detroit on and off the field. He could put STO to good use too with the Indians, Cavs, Gladiators, Monsters, and casino. He could wind up as the sole proprietor of the original Gateway development project.

Does anyone know if MLB would allow ownership by a casino owner? I know Steinbrenner used to own a racetrack.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:42 pm

ACrank wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:There has been stuff in the last 6 months that STO may be up for sale, and behind the scenes there is a belief that ownership may consider a sale of the team. Doesn't mean they will, but it is something that when you connect the dots, appears like it could happen. As to who would buy the team, look across the way from Progressive Field and see The Q....Dan Gilbert is buying up lots of Cleveland teams, has a new casino, wanted to buy the Brewers before he bought the Cavs, and so on.


Correct me if i am wrong, but originally wasn't it Dolan Senior's plan to buy the Cavs as well as the Indians and then set up STO to broadcast both teams? Could Gilbert be interested in doing the same? Does anyone know when the Cavs contract w/ Fox Sports Ohio is done?


I am not sure if Dolan's plan was to buy the Cavs or not, but I know he tried to get the Cavs onto STO back in 2006. Gilbert ended up using that as leverage and got the 4th largest TV deal in the NBA (at the time) for the Cavs from Fox Sports Ohio....got them to double what the previous deal was. I don't have a year it expires but it was called a "long-term extension" when it was agreed too in 2006. I'm guessing there's a few more years on it. Highly unlikely Dan Gilbert would want to get a new deal anyways as one big reason FSN was willing to overpay for the Cavs was because of Lebron....who is gone. Gilbert is making a killing on that FSN deal.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:48 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:It seems awfully curious that the Indians have very minimal contractual obligations after this season. There are options to pick up, but no multi-year contracts. That may have been the hindrance with doing major deals this off-season.

I think if they sign ACab to just a 1-year deal, that will be another clue. Why wouldn't you sign him to a 2-3 year? I also haven't heard about any negotiations with Choo.

If the Dolans sell to Gilbert, we should have a parade. :yahoo: He is not afraid to invest money because he wants to compete. He also likes to compete with Detroit on and off the field. He could put STO to good use too with the Indians, Cavs, Gladiators, Monsters, and casino. He could wind up as the sole proprietor of the original Gateway development project.

Does anyone know if MLB would allow ownership by a casino owner? I know Steinbrenner used to own a racetrack.


Count me out of that parade. This whole "Gilbert is not afraid to spend to win" thing is not entirely accurate. Gilbert's tight ass may have cost the Cavs the Championship a couple years ago when he refused to allow Ferry to deal Wally Szczerbiak's expiring contract for Shaq (or others). Gilbert did spend a lot, don't get me wrong...but he was sitting on a winning lottery ticket with Lebron. that all said...do think he'd spend more than Dolan has, but wouldn't expect major changes.

As far as would MLB allow him...not sure on the casino thing. Personally think Selig/MLB would be more against his outspokenness. One reason I'm convinced they don't want Mark Cuban is because he speaks his mind too much and is a bit controversial. Gilbert has become Cuban-lite in the NBA. I really don't see MLB opening up to him. But we shall see. Definitely wouldn't rule it out. Money talks and there likely won't be a lot of suitors lining up to buy the Indians if they were put up for sale.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:31 am

According to Danny Knobler on the Twitter, the Indians must have at least talked $ amounts with Edwin Jackson

Indians were one of the teams that tried on Edwin Jackson, but were not close to the $$ he got from Nationals


Obvioulsy CA was looking at Jackson knowing he could be had on a 1 year deal and Jackson was looking to have a big season to become a FA again next year, which is a smart move. Shows that the Indians still might be looking at more FA starters at least to some degree.

Since Jackson is off the table now and Oswalt told the Tribe (and Jays) no thank you, I would like to once again suggest Rich Harden. He would come relatively cheaper than either of the other two and when healthy, has been a good contributer. Just a thought anyway, I'm sure there are a few teams willing to give him a look, and for all I know, CA hates Harden's guts.

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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:00 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:According to Danny Knobler on the Twitter, the Indians must have at least talked $ amounts with Edwin Jackson

Indians were one of the teams that tried on Edwin Jackson, but were not close to the $$ he got from Nationals


Obvioulsy CA was looking at Jackson knowing he could be had on a 1 year deal and Jackson was looking to have a big season to become a FA again next year, which is a smart move. Shows that the Indians still might be looking at more FA starters at least to some degree.

Since Jackson is off the table now and Oswalt told the Tribe (and Jays) no thank you, I would like to once again suggest Rich Harden. He would come relatively cheaper than either of the other two and when healthy, has been a good contributer. Just a thought anyway, I'm sure there are a few teams willing to give him a look, and for all I know, CA hates Harden's guts.

Harden is definitely the type of guy the Tribe has gone after in the past and the type of guy we could get. Definitely would like to see an upgrade to the rotation. I'd like to again suggest Jeff Niemann too. Rays have a decision to make on if Niemann goes to the bullpen or if Davis goes to AAA (or bullpen). Davis is younger and locked in to a long-term deal....Niemann just had an arby hearing, which "disappointed" the Rays. Niemann has his issues but I'd feel a lot more comfortable with him in that rotation than Slowey, gomez, McAllister or Huff personally.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:15 pm

Heard on MLBTV that the Nats are considering dealing Lannan for a CF now that Jackson has signed. Is Brantley enough? Are we better off with Kip in LF & Donald at 2B or Kip at 2B & Brantley in LF?
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby A.Zajac » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:32 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Heard on MLBTV that the Nats are considering dealing Lannan for a CF now that Jackson has signed. Is Brantley enough? Are we better off with Kip in LF & Donald at 2B or Kip at 2B & Brantley in LF?


Kipnis at second and Brantley in left..... :fool:
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:29 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Heard on MLBTV that the Nats are considering dealing Lannan for a CF now that Jackson has signed. Is Brantley enough? Are we better off with Kip in LF & Donald at 2B or Kip at 2B & Brantley in LF?


Kipnis was moved to 2B.. and it appears the Indians are going to keep him there. Also, with Cunningham and Canzler and Duncan and a litany of additional players that can hold down the LF spot, there would be no reason to move Kip from 2B. Moving Brantley as part of a trade involving Lannan could be in the works.. especially if it's believed the Indians have the intention of flipping Lannan or:

Red Sox get: John Lannan, Chun-Hsui Chen

Nationals get: Michael Brantley, Jason Donald

Indians get: Matt Purke, Matt Barnes, Blake Swihart

Note: PTBNL status for recent draftees applies

This way the Indians replenish the farm system with two post-bonus upside SP's and a fine catching prospect. Even though this kind of trade doesn't help the Indians chances in 2012, it helps the Indians overall.. which should always be part of any trade considered....
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:54 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:Heard on MLBTV that the Nats are considering dealing Lannan for a CF now that Jackson has signed. Is Brantley enough? Are we better off with Kip in LF & Donald at 2B or Kip at 2B & Brantley in LF?


Kipnis at second and Brantley in left..... :fool:

Should have included, Kip in LF, Donald at 2B, AND Lannan in the rotation. I'd like to know what it is about Kip's delicate psyche that precludes moving him back to the OF. BUT, if the poor widdle guy can't handle it, you can keep him at 2B & put Donald in the OF. My suggesting the other way around would improve the infield defense immensely.

Thome moved, Baerga moved, Santana rotates to 1B, Victor did the same, there was even talk of moving Grady to a LF, but for the Love of Jesus, don't mention moving Kipnis you :crazy: :fool: .
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby A.Zajac » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:32 pm

Rocky55 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:Heard on MLBTV that the Nats are considering dealing Lannan for a CF now that Jackson has signed. Is Brantley enough? Are we better off with Kip in LF & Donald at 2B or Kip at 2B & Brantley in LF?


Kipnis at second and Brantley in left..... :fool:

Should have included, Kip in LF, Donald at 2B, AND Lannan in the rotation. I'd like to know what it is about Kip's delicate psyche that precludes moving him back to the OF. BUT, if the poor widdle guy can't handle it, you can keep him at 2B & put Donald in the OF. My suggesting the other way around would improve the infield defense immensely.

Thome moved, Baerga moved, Santana rotates to 1B, Victor did the same, there was even talk of moving Grady to a LF, but for the Love of Jesus, don't mention moving Kipnis you :crazy: :fool: .


Why would you move a guy, have him learn the role, then move him back? Look what that originally did to Asdrubal. It doesn't turn out well. Plus he has more value at second than in LF.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ACrank » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:12 pm

Rocky55 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:Heard on MLBTV that the Nats are considering dealing Lannan for a CF now that Jackson has signed. Is Brantley enough? Are we better off with Kip in LF & Donald at 2B or Kip at 2B & Brantley in LF?


Kipnis at second and Brantley in left..... :fool:

Should have included, Kip in LF, Donald at 2B, AND Lannan in the rotation. I'd like to know what it is about Kip's delicate psyche that precludes moving him back to the OF. BUT, if the poor widdle guy can't handle it, you can keep him at 2B & put Donald in the OF. My suggesting the other way around would improve the infield defense immensely.

Thome moved, Baerga moved, Santana rotates to 1B, Victor did the same, there was even talk of moving Grady to a LF, but for the Love of Jesus, don't mention moving Kipnis you :crazy: :fool: .


Uh yeah. Sure its all Kipnis fault. As a second baseman he is a plus prospect. As an OF - average at best. The only reasons he would move back to the of is if he really develops as a power hitter, or he just can't play second defensively.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:21 pm

ACrank wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:Heard on MLBTV that the Nats are considering dealing Lannan for a CF now that Jackson has signed. Is Brantley enough? Are we better off with Kip in LF & Donald at 2B or Kip at 2B & Brantley in LF?


Kipnis at second and Brantley in left..... :fool:

Should have included, Kip in LF, Donald at 2B, AND Lannan in the rotation. I'd like to know what it is about Kip's delicate psyche that precludes moving him back to the OF. BUT, if the poor widdle guy can't handle it, you can keep him at 2B & put Donald in the OF. My suggesting the other way around would improve the infield defense immensely.

Thome moved, Baerga moved, Santana rotates to 1B, Victor did the same, there was even talk of moving Grady to a LF, but for the Love of Jesus, don't mention moving Kipnis you :crazy: :fool: .


Uh yeah. Sure its all Kipnis fault. As a second baseman he is a plus prospect. As an OF - average at best. The only reasons he would move back to the of is if he really develops as a power hitter, or he just can't play second defensively.

Way missed the point. Kipnis, being the roughneck that he is, would probably laugh at the idea that he couldn't change positions. Kid's a throwback, he'd probably play anywhere you asked him to play. I was referring to the people who blanch at the idea that he might move anywhere, like he was a delicate little flower. He's the one guy on the team I'd least worry about mentally. As far as power is concerned, the kid had a .841 OPS as a rookie. I expect his career number to be considerably north of that. He's going to be valuable wherever he plays. I wouldn't be surprised at Votto-like numbers. This is coming from a guy who wasn't thrilled when he was drafted. He totally won me over. The only thing I don't see is even average defense at 2B. Who knows though, he proved me wrong once.

Once again, the point of my suggestion was to further improve the infield defense, a worthy goal on a team with a staff full of GB pitchers, which would include Lannan if we got him.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:08 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Way missed the point. Kipnis, being the roughneck that he is, would probably laugh at the idea that he couldn't change positions. Kid's a throwback, he'd probably play anywhere you asked him to play. I was referring to the people who blanch at the idea that he might move anywhere, like he was a delicate little flower. He's the one guy on the team I'd least worry about mentally. As far as power is concerned, the kid had a .841 OPS as a rookie. I expect his career number to be considerably north of that. He's going to be valuable wherever he plays. I wouldn't be surprised at Votto-like numbers. This is coming from a guy who wasn't thrilled when he was drafted. He totally won me over. The only thing I don't see is even average defense at 2B. Who knows though, he proved me wrong once.

Once again, the point of my suggestion was to further improve the infield defense, a worthy goal on a team with a staff full of GB pitchers, which would include Lannan if we got him.


I think it's a very fair arguement though if Donald is even an improvement over Kipnis defensively at 2B. Neither is average there. Today, I'd go Donald, but he is a natural IF so not the fairest of comps.

Also think you may be surprised at how well Donald plays the OF. Indians have raved (ok maybe a strong word) about how he's looked in CF....sounds as though he may play there more than Brantley (at least in the early going). One big reason Kip was moved to 2B was the fact that virtually no one thought he could play CF (and his bat didn't profile well to LF). Donald has a much better arm than Kip too.


As far as your trade idea....I'm clearly not the biggest Brantley fan on this site, but I'm not a big fan of moving him for Lannan. I worry how well his stuff would translate to the AL.


As far as the Votto-like comment (referring to Kip)....wow. That is a very bold statement. I can't see it, but absolutely hope you're right :drinks:
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:33 am

To be honest I don't reacall ever having seen John Lannan pitch, but based upon stats he looks like he could post decent numbers. At $5 mil. Lannan would be the same cost as Derek Lowe. Personally I would think it would be worth the risk.

As for Jason Kipnis, I believe he could post some Ian Kinsler numbers. Give him a cpl yrs into his prime and I'd be willing to guess Kipnis could post several seasons of 25 hrs (+\-).
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ACrank » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:06 pm

Rocky55 wrote:
ACrank wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:Heard on MLBTV that the Nats are considering dealing Lannan for a CF now that Jackson has signed. Is Brantley enough? Are we better off with Kip in LF & Donald at 2B or Kip at 2B & Brantley in LF?


Kipnis at second and Brantley in left..... :fool:

Should have included, Kip in LF, Donald at 2B, AND Lannan in the rotation. I'd like to know what it is about Kip's delicate psyche that precludes moving him back to the OF. BUT, if the poor widdle guy can't handle it, you can keep him at 2B & put Donald in the OF. My suggesting the other way around would improve the infield defense immensely.

Thome moved, Baerga moved, Santana rotates to 1B, Victor did the same, there was even talk of moving Grady to a LF, but for the Love of Jesus, don't mention moving Kipnis you :crazy: :fool: .


Uh yeah. Sure its all Kipnis fault. As a second baseman he is a plus prospect. As an OF - average at best. The only reasons he would move back to the of is if he really develops as a power hitter, or he just can't play second defensively.

Way missed the point. Kipnis, being the roughneck that he is, would probably laugh at the idea that he couldn't change positions. Kid's a throwback, he'd probably play anywhere you asked him to play. I was referring to the people who blanch at the idea that he might move anywhere, like he was a delicate little flower. He's the one guy on the team I'd least worry about mentally. As far as power is concerned, the kid had a .841 OPS as a rookie. I expect his career number to be considerably north of that. He's going to be valuable wherever he plays. I wouldn't be surprised at Votto-like numbers. This is coming from a guy who wasn't thrilled when he was drafted. He totally won me over. The only thing I don't see is even average defense at 2B. Who knows though, he proved me wrong once.

Once again, the point of my suggestion was to further improve the infield defense, a worthy goal on a team with a staff full of GB pitchers, which would include Lannan if we got him.


You 'way missed the point'. I'm not suggesting Kipnis can't switch back to the of - after all he started in college as an of and is moving to second. I'm suggesting he shouldn't be switched back to the of except if he can't handle second defensively or really develops the way you think he will. Think Ron Gant vs Jeff Kent. Kent wasn't fantastic at second, but he held his own. Gant was absolutely horrible at second and was sent down to the low minors to learn how to play the of. From what I've seen of Kipnis he's more Kent then Grant. And, frankly, if you can get Joey Votto production in a guy who isn't a stone glove at second, I'd take it.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Rocky55 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:07 am

ACrank wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:
ACrank wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:Heard on MLBTV that the Nats are considering dealing Lannan for a CF now that Jackson has signed. Is Brantley enough? Are we better off with Kip in LF & Donald at 2B or Kip at 2B & Brantley in LF?


Kipnis at second and Brantley in left..... :fool:

Should have included, Kip in LF, Donald at 2B, AND Lannan in the rotation. I'd like to know what it is about Kip's delicate psyche that precludes moving him back to the OF. BUT, if the poor widdle guy can't handle it, you can keep him at 2B & put Donald in the OF. My suggesting the other way around would improve the infield defense immensely.

Thome moved, Baerga moved, Santana rotates to 1B, Victor did the same, there was even talk of moving Grady to a LF, but for the Love of Jesus, don't mention moving Kipnis you :crazy: :fool: .


Uh yeah. Sure its all Kipnis fault. As a second baseman he is a plus prospect. As an OF - average at best. The only reasons he would move back to the of is if he really develops as a power hitter, or he just can't play second defensively.

Way missed the point. Kipnis, being the roughneck that he is, would probably laugh at the idea that he couldn't change positions. Kid's a throwback, he'd probably play anywhere you asked him to play. I was referring to the people who blanch at the idea that he might move anywhere, like he was a delicate little flower. He's the one guy on the team I'd least worry about mentally. As far as power is concerned, the kid had a .841 OPS as a rookie. I expect his career number to be considerably north of that. He's going to be valuable wherever he plays. I wouldn't be surprised at Votto-like numbers. This is coming from a guy who wasn't thrilled when he was drafted. He totally won me over. The only thing I don't see is even average defense at 2B. Who knows though, he proved me wrong once.

Once again, the point of my suggestion was to further improve the infield defense, a worthy goal on a team with a staff full of GB pitchers, which would include Lannan if we got him.


You 'way missed the point'. I'm not suggesting Kipnis can't switch back to the of - after all he started in college as an of and is moving to second. I'm suggesting he shouldn't be switched back to the of except if he can't handle second defensively or really develops the way you think he will. Think Ron Gant vs Jeff Kent. Kent wasn't fantastic at second, but he held his own. Gant was absolutely horrible at second and was sent down to the low minors to learn how to play the of. From what I've seen of Kipnis he's more Kent then Grant. And, frankly, if you can get Joey Votto production in a guy who isn't a stone glove at second, I'd take it.

As Kirk said to Khan: "Like a poor marksman you keep missing the target".

Is it better to have Donald, who I believe will hit as good as Brantley, plus will field better than Kipnis, playing 2nd behind a pitching staff full of GB pitchers, plus Kipnis playing LF where he would also be a defensive asset, PLUS add a solid 27yr old ML LH pitcher, with an affordable contact, under contol for 2 seasons, OR have the same offense, poorer defense at 2nd & comparable defense in LF, without the above mentioned pitcher?

Damn, that was a run on sentence worthy of Paul Cousineau. :biggrin:
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ACrank » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:30 pm

Basically you are counting on Donald producing as much as an average LF (since Kipnis = Kipnis). Or you are counting on Donald + Kipnis devevelopment being equal or greater than Brantley + Kipnis (which wasn't what you said originally, but that's ok). Forgive me if I don't agree with you? I agree that Kipnis is far from a gold glover at second, and I can even understand the necessity of improving infield defense with the sinkerballers on the Indians staff. But this isn't Miguel Cabrera at third base, and Kipnis bat in LF just profiles as average or below average. I doubt Donald's presence at second would make up for the difference between Kipnis in LF and an average LF.
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