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Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

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Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:44 pm

Entering the series...
Indians: 62-61, 2nd place in AL Central, 4½ GB the Tigers. 33-25 at home. 5-5 in last 10.
Mariners: 53-72, 4th place in AL West, 18½ games behind Texas. 23-41 on the road. 4-6 in last 10.
...The Indians limp home after a disastrous weekend in Detroit -- dropping from 1½ games out to a season-worst 4½ -- to start an 11-game home stand against 3 teams with a combined winning percentage of .430. Cleveland's pitching staff allowed 18 runs over the past 2 games, but should recover against an offense that hasn't done that once all season. The Mariners come to Cleveland riding a 5-game losing streak and have the 4th worst record in baseball. They rank dead last in baseball in runs, BA, OBP and SLG, and have lost 20 of their last 23 road games.

Monday, 7:05 ET
Fausto Carmona, RHP (6-12, 4.89) vs. Jason Vargas, LHP (7-11, 4.37)

Carmona has taken an entire run off his season ERA over his last 7 appearances by holding opponents to a .224/.287/.366 line in 43 innings (2.51 ERA). He's finding success by keeping the ball in the yard, allowing just 4 home runs in his last 8 starts, after allowing 11 long balls in his previous 8 starts. • Vargas is wilting in the second half and allowed a season-high 8 earned runs in just 4 innings against Toronto his last time out. He's 1-5 since the All-Star break with a 7.39 ERA (.346/.409/.583). His worst start of the season came against the Indians on April 8th, when he allowed 7 earned runs in 3.1 innings.

Tuesday, 1:05 ET
Justin Masterson, RHP (10-7, 2.71) vs. Blake Beavan, RHP (3-4, 4.10)

Masterson only allows 8.2 h/9, and most of those have been harmless singles. He's the hardest pitcher in the league to homer against (0.3 hr/9), 2nd hardest to get an extra-base hit against (23%), and the third hardest to elevate the ball against (1.26 GB/FB). He's allowed 2 earned runs or less in 12 of his last 14 starts (2.22 ERA). • Beavan was acquired in last year's Cliff Lee trade, and he made his MLB debut joining Seattle's rotation after this year's trade deadline. He was the 17th pick of the 2007 draft, but his star has slipped after posting a 3.73 ERA and 5.3 K/9 rate in 3½ minor league seasons. That K-rate has dropped to 3.6 in the majors, but he has excellent control (1.5 BB/9). After posting a 2.83 ERA through his first 6 starts, the 22-yr.-old has allowed 11 runs in 11.1 innings over his last 2 starts, and given up 3 home runs in each. He's 6'7", 240 lb., with a sinking fastball that averages 90.7 mph, but still lacks good secondary stuff beyond his change-up.

Tuesday, 7:05 ET
TBA vs. TBA

Neither team has announced their starter for Tuesday night's game. Jeanmar Gomez is considered the most likely candidate for Cleveland, but Zach McAllister is scheduled to pitch on Tuesday in AAA. Gomez is scheduled to start for Columbus Monday night, so the question will be answered by their start time if not before. Even if healthy, Carlos Carrasco isn't an option due to his suspension. • Seattle has only used 7 starters this year, and two of them (Doug Fister & Eric Bedard) now wear other teams' uniforms, so someone will make his first start of the season. They have no logical candidates in AAA, so it could be long-reliever Tom Wilhelmsen (1-0, 5.19), who pitched 3 perfect relief innings against the Rays on Saturday.

Wednesday, 12:05 ET
Josh Tomlin, RHP (12-6, 4.03) vs. Felix Hernandez, RHP (11-11, 3.38)

Tomlin ran out of gas after a strong start in Detroit, allowing 3 home runs to the last 7 batters he faced (6.2 innings, 4 ER). He still has the 5th lowest WHIP in the league (1.033), because no one walks fewer batters (1.1 BB/9), but with the 3rd worst home run rate in the AL (1.3 HR/9), he'll be happy to face the worst power hitting team in baseball. • Hernandez is struggling this season by his own standards, but still has the 2nd most strikeouts in the league (185), and he never gets chased early, pitching into the 7th inning in each of his last 18 starts. He's coming off a 3-2 complete game loss to the Rays. Hernandez has allowed the 2nd most stolen bases in the AL (25), but the Indians haven't done much damage on the base paths this year (T-11th in SB).

NOTES:
• Travis Hafner (right foot strain) will have an MRI done today after pulling up lame following a hit on Sunday. He claimed it felt better after the game, but he spent time on the DL with this injury earlier this season. Cleveland will almost certainly make a DL decision today with the heavy schedule coming up. The Indians have little use for the version of Pronk who's hit .220/.303/.339 in the second half anyway.
• Shin-Soo Choo has 10 hits in his last 22 at-bats, including his 1st home run since returning from the DL. In 30 games against Seattle, he's a career .291/.381/.527.
• In 27 games since the All-Star break, Michael Brantley is hitting .270/.296/.405 with 2 walks, 20 K's and 1 stolen base.
• Seattle 1B Mike Carp comes to town on a 20-game hitting streak, in which he's hit .363/.400/.575. He's had hits in 27 of 29 games since being recalled from AAA in mid-July, and is batting .325/.382/.517 in 44 games.
• In his 15 games since being acquired from Detroit, Casper Wells is hitting .333 with 6 hr and 14 rbi, but that's going to be difficult to keep up if he continues striking out in 41% of his at-bats.
• Despite hitting .279 in August, Franklin Gutierrez is still having the worst year of his career (.216/.251/.264) and has gone 250 at-bats since his last home run.
• Seattle released former Indians pitcher Aaron Laffey last week. Laffey had a 1.87 ERA at the All-Star break, pitching exclusively in relief, but has allowed 14 runs on 26 hits over his last 12 innings. He made one appearance with the Yankees over the weekend before being placed on waivers again Monday.

Cleveland is 4-0 against Detroit this season.
4/8 • W • 12-3 (14). Win: Carrasco. Loss: Vargas.
4/9 • W • 2-1. Win: Masterson. Loss: Fister.
4/10 • W • 6-4. Win: Tomlin. Loss: Bedard.
5/13 • W • 5-4. Win: Sipp. Loss: League.

SCOREBOARD WATCH
Detroit at Tampa Bay

Mon. - Justin Verlander (18-5, 2.31) vs. Jeff Niemann (8-4, 3.29)
Tues. - Brad Penny (8-9, 4.97) vs. David Price (11-10, 3.59)
Wed. - Max Scherzer (13-7, 4.23) vs. Wade Davis (8-7, 4.43)
Thurs. - Doug Fister (5-13, 3.49) vs. Jeremy Hellickson (11-8, 3.04)
Last edited by Pork Chop Pough on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby rich/buffalo » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:40 pm

Since everything points in the tribes' favor,I'm guessing the M's take 3 out of 4 games.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:18 pm

With Masterson going in the matinee.. it has been determined that Zach McAllister will be the starter for the Indians in the night cap of Tuesday's double header..
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby MadThinker88 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:59 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:With Masterson going in the matinee.. it has been determined that Zach McAllister will be the starter for the Indians in the night cap of Tuesday's double header..


I'm glad Zach is getting the opportunity. Gomez has gotten how many ML starts over the past 2 years - 10? Zach's 1st ML chance left something to be desired. He's pitched well enough this year to get a 2nd & 3rd chance so that the Tribe can make a decision in the offseason on which guy to include in a deal.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby entertheshoe » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:51 pm

I just don't understand.

How can a closer be SO MUCH WORSE in a non-save situation than he is in save ops. It just doesn't make sense to me.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Bearcatbob » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:56 pm

entertheshoe wrote:I just don't understand.

How can a closer be SO MUCH WORSE in a non-save situation than he is in save ops. It just doesn't make sense to me.


The bottom line is that a team that cannot score - will not win.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:04 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:
entertheshoe wrote:I just don't understand.

How can a closer be SO MUCH WORSE in a non-save situation than he is in save ops. It just doesn't make sense to me.


The bottom line is that a team that cannot score - will not win.


Defense has been bad again as well. 2 of the 3 Mariners runs are unearned. Yeah both of ours are too, but gotta play better defense nevertheless.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Magneticnorth451 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:14 pm

Can't say I enjoy watching Chris Perez throw. Pestano has closer stuff. Perez, not so much.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Prosecutor » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:34 pm

For the umpteenth time the Tribe proves it can't beat a left-handed starter. For the umpteenth time Chris Perez proves that if you bring him in to pitch the top of the 9th with the score tied he will lose the game for you. Same-o, same-o.

Pronk on the 15-day DL. We're screwed.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:42 pm

We're falling fast back to reality.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:40 pm

Prosecutor wrote:For the umpteenth time the Tribe proves it can't beat a left-handed starter. For the umpteenth time Chris Perez proves that if you bring him in to pitch the top of the 9th with the score tied he will lose the game for you. Same-o, same-o.

Pronk on the 15-day DL. We're screwed.


Tribe's record is against left-handed starters is now 17-19.....45-43 vs right handed starters. Obviously better vs righties, but really not by much.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Bearcatbob » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:32 am

Baring some miracle winning streak the magic of this season has come to an end. Too many injuries and too many games with little or no offense.

This winter we need to restructure in some way to add some pop to this line up. Some player decisions need to be made that will upset the status quo. For instance, can we find a mirror image of Choo with a team that needs a left handed hitter?

Additionally, who has a mirror image of LaPorta - where both sides of the mirror need a change of scenery. If Santana is our 1b - is Marson our catcher?

Finally, we now hear Sizemore is just returning to running of land? How serious was his knee injury? What do we do with him?

Our depth is in pitching - other teams are dying for pitching. There must be a hitter out there somewhere.

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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Prosecutor » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:32 am

Hermie13 wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:For the umpteenth time the Tribe proves it can't beat a left-handed starter. For the umpteenth time Chris Perez proves that if you bring him in to pitch the top of the 9th with the score tied he will lose the game for you. Same-o, same-o.

Pronk on the 15-day DL. We're screwed.


Tribe's record is against left-handed starters is now 17-19.....45-43 vs right handed starters. Obviously better vs righties, but really not by much.


Thanks, Herm. I must have selective memory because it seems like every time they face a lefty they get beat. Obviously that's not the case. I wonder how many of those wins were late inning comebacks against the bullpen, though.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:36 am

A few notes/observations on the opener of the four game series with the Mariners... Another game of missed opportunities and small mistakes costing plenty..FOUR HBP's by Indians pitchers.. OUCH !!

Missed opportunites: Donald Brantley and Carrera.. Five times failed to get the runner home when there were RISP.. Would it have made a difference if it was Kipnis, Choo and Sizemore?.. Hafner?..Duncan?.. maybe?... probably?..

Both Carrera and Marson did have excellent at bats all night. Marson was a hitting machine, getting three solid safeties on the night while Carrera got two hits and worked the count/pitcher well.. Zeke does need some work on getting the bunt down.. he appears to be "lunging" at the ball with his bat as opposed to "catching" the ball with his bat..

Good job by Fausto.. he struggled through the entire outing yet, kept the Indians in the game.. Fausto gave the Indians another quality start. Since July, Fausto has allowed 13 ER in 49 IP (8 starts), a 2.39 ERA and 2-2 record. The Indians are 5-3 over those 8 starts, as a team..

Nice to see Lonnie Chisenhall get a pinch hitting opportunity and a safety close and late...

Chris Perez: What can you say.. two HBP's and a walk.. yet still allowed a single run.. Not a thing of beauty.. not by a long stretch..

Onward to the Matinee game.. It looks like the Indians have switched the starters around.. Z-Mac gets the 1:05 start while the Masterful One gets the night cap.. perhaps Masterson told Manny that he was just more comfortable pitching in his more customary starting time?.. perhaps it allows the Indians to have Santana behind the plate for the day game after the night game and returns Marson to the starting catcher's slot for the night cap?.. perhaps..
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:46 am

Bearcatbob wrote:...This winter we need to restructure in some way to add some pop to this line up. Some player decisions need to be made that will upset the status quo. For instance, can we find a mirror image of Choo with a team that needs a left handed hitter?.....There must be a hitter out there somewhere....Bob


Well, one place that there doesn't seem to be a lot of help coming in the form of an impact bat is from the Indians minor league system. Unless you are an "overtly optimistic, glass half full, the sun will come up tomorrow" type person, when you look through the Indians system.. there just isn't a lot of potential impact bats.

Donald, Phelps and Kipnis have a spot on the team in some role.. Jared Goedert has his streaks, but, not to the point where he is pushing anyone for a spot on the current roster.. Does Trevor Crowe have a chance to change from an interesting singles/gap power hitter to an impact bat entering next year?. I didn't think so either..

The players in the minors that may impact the Indians sometime in 2012/2013 could include Mills, Neal, Jordan Smith, Aguilar, Cannon, Smit, Galas, MacPhee, Wolters, Myles, L-rod and R-rod.. The last 8 on this list would be HUGE stretches to make an impact even in 2013..

In short.. a trade appears to be almost essential to the Indians hopes for 2012 and beyond. The question becomes, who would the Indians target?.. perhaps in another posting I'll suggest some names.. feel free to suggest who you think would be impactful....
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby daingean » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:10 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
Bearcatbob wrote:...This winter we need to restructure in some way to add some pop to this line up. Some player decisions need to be made that will upset the status quo. For instance, can we find a mirror image of Choo with a team that needs a left handed hitter?.....There must be a hitter out there somewhere....Bob


Well, one place that there doesn't seem to be a lot of help coming in the form of an impact bat is from the Indians minor league system. Unless you are an "overtly optimistic, glass half full, the sun will come up tomorrow" type person, when you look through the Indians system.. there just isn't a lot of potential impact bats.

Donald, Phelps and Kipnis have a spot on the team in some role.. Jared Goedert has his streaks, but, not to the point where he is pushing anyone for a spot on the current roster.. Does Trevor Crowe have a chance to change from an interesting singles/gap power hitter to an impact bat entering next year?. I didn't think so either..

The players in the minors that may impact the Indians sometime in 2012/2013 could include Mills, Neal, Jordan Smith, Aguilar, Cannon, Smit, Galas, MacPhee, Wolters, Myles, L-rod and R-rod.. The last 8 on this list would be HUGE stretches to make an impact even in 2013..

In short.. a trade appears to be almost essential to the Indians hopes for 2012 and beyond. The question becomes, who would the Indians target?.. perhaps in another posting I'll suggest some names.. feel free to suggest who you think would be impactful....


My guess is that a few non-roster ST Invite type FA's will be signed with the survival of the fittest type MO by the front office like Crisp, Ludwick, Nady, Andruw Jones, Willingham, and Cody Ross being on the long list. The FO will shorten that list to 4-5 and sign maybe 3 (yeah some on that list will be rostered invites).
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:41 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Onward to the Matinee game.. It looks like the Indians have switched the starters around.. Z-Mac gets the 1:05 start while the Masterful One gets the night cap.. perhaps Masterson told Manny that he was just more comfortable pitching in his more customary starting time?.. perhaps it allows the Indians to have Santana behind the plate for the day game after the night game and returns Marson to the starting catcher's slot for the night cap?.. perhaps..

...not unless Masterson is pulling a Double Duty Radcliffe. He's losing 3-2 in the bottom of the 6th. McAllister is still the starter for tonight.

Seattle counters with Anthony Vasquez tonight -- his major league debut. I'd overlooked him as a possibility because he has to be added to the 40-man as well as the 25-man roster before tonight's game. Just the Tribe's luck -- another lefty. Control pitcher (1.8 BB/9 in his pro career)... upper 80s fastball, the change-up is his best pitch. Vasquez is projected as a back half of the rotation guy... a 3.21 ERA in 8 PCL starts is pretty impressive, a 5.3 K/9 rate between AA-AAA this year isn't. He turns 25 next month and missed Baseball America's preseason top 30 in the organization, but some Mariners fan sites had him in their top 20.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:24 pm

Is "Ezekiel Carrera" Spanish for "Alex Cole"?

Someone with his style of game should really possess a few fundamentals.

Thank God that Jamey Wright still has a major league job.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby jellis » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:49 pm

I know its a hard situation but perez is just horrible right now, everything is hard or no control. I think Vinny P is the closer of the future, really hope CP is started this off season. Everything shows he is not that good, but all star and top 5 in the Al might mean very nice trade value to the right team
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby A.Zajac » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:53 pm

I put this one on Acta.. not trying to be a CP apologist, but Acta has blown a few other games similar to this one this season..
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby jellis » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:56 pm

A.Zajac wrote:I put this one on Acta.. not trying to be a CP apologist, but Acta has blown a few other games similar to this one this season..


I think its the right call, you dont want to use CP after all those pitches if you dont have to, with a double header you have to try and save the pen, I think it was the right call based on yesterday and it being a double header.



CHOOOOOOOOOOO
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby A.Zajac » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:58 pm

jellis wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:I put this one on Acta.. not trying to be a CP apologist, but Acta has blown a few other games similar to this one this season..


I think its the right call, you dont want to use CP after all those pitches if you dont have to, with a double header you have to try and save the pen, I think it was the right call based on yesterday and it being a double header.



CHOOOOOOOOOOO


Either you put him in to start the inning or you put Pestano on then. With how CP is struggling, I just think it was a poorly handled situation.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:03 pm

CHOOOOOOOOOOO DAT !..

nice to see the W.. the losing streak over..etc..

Choo really pounded that one.. too... :drinks:
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby criznit2009 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:05 pm

Pork Chop Pough wrote:Is "Ezekiel Carrera" Spanish for "Alex Cole"?

Someone with his style of game should really possess a few fundamentals.

Thank God that Jamey Wright still has a major league job.


Not sure what you mean here - can you enlighten a dummy?
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:17 pm

criznit2009 wrote:
Pork Chop Pough wrote:Is "Ezekiel Carrera" Spanish for "Alex Cole"?

Someone with his style of game should really possess a few fundamentals.

Thank God that Jamey Wright still has a major league job.


Not sure what you mean here - can you enlighten a dummy?

A guy with his speed and lack of punch has to know how to bunt... he's failed to execute one in each of the past two games. He's also had a couple instances where he's been completely oblivious of game situations... last night he was thrown out at third because he didn't know how many outs there were.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:40 pm

Pork Chop Pough wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Onward to the Matinee game.. It looks like the Indians have switched the starters around.. Z-Mac gets the 1:05 start while the Masterful One gets the night cap.. perhaps Masterson told Manny that he was just more comfortable pitching in his more customary starting time?.. perhaps it allows the Indians to have Santana behind the plate for the day game after the night game and returns Marson to the starting catcher's slot for the night cap?.. perhaps..

...not unless Masterson is pulling a Double Duty Radcliffe. He's losing 3-2 in the bottom of the 6th. McAllister is still the starter for tonight.

Seattle counters with Anthony Vasquez tonight -- his major league debut. I'd overlooked him as a possibility because he has to be added to the 40-man as well as the 25-man roster before tonight's game. Just the Tribe's luck -- another lefty. Control pitcher (1.8 BB/9 in his pro career)... upper 80s fastball, the change-up is his best pitch. Vasquez is projected as a back half of the rotation guy... a 3.21 ERA in 8 PCL starts is pretty impressive, a 5.3 K/9 rate between AA-AAA this year isn't. He turns 25 next month and missed Baseball America's preseason top 30 in the organization, but some Mariners fan sites had him in their top 20.
yeah.. that report by MLB.com was inaccurate. Masterson got the matinee. So, it's Z-Mac in the Night Cap. The roster move to make room on the roster is Little Luis Valmalo going back to Columbus!

HOOOOORRRRAAAYYYY !!

Go Tribe..
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:43 pm

daingean wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
Bearcatbob wrote:...This winter we need to restructure in some way to add some pop to this line up. Some player decisions need to be made that will upset the status quo. For instance, can we find a mirror image of Choo with a team that needs a left handed hitter?.....There must be a hitter out there somewhere....Bob


Well, one place that there doesn't seem to be a lot of help coming in the form of an impact bat is from the Indians minor league system. Unless you are an "overtly optimistic, glass half full, the sun will come up tomorrow" type person, when you look through the Indians system.. there just isn't a lot of potential impact bats.

Donald, Phelps and Kipnis have a spot on the team in some role.. Jared Goedert has his streaks, but, not to the point where he is pushing anyone for a spot on the current roster.. Does Trevor Crowe have a chance to change from an interesting singles/gap power hitter to an impact bat entering next year?. I didn't think so either..

The players in the minors that may impact the Indians sometime in 2012/2013 could include Mills, Neal, Jordan Smith, Aguilar, Cannon, Smit, Galas, MacPhee, Wolters, Myles, L-rod and R-rod.. The last 8 on this list would be HUGE stretches to make an impact even in 2013..

In short.. a trade appears to be almost essential to the Indians hopes for 2012 and beyond. The question becomes, who would the Indians target?.. perhaps in another posting I'll suggest some names.. feel free to suggest who you think would be impactful....


My guess is that a few non-roster ST Invite type FA's will be signed with the survival of the fittest type MO by the front office like Crisp, Ludwick, Nady, Andruw Jones, Willingham, and Cody Ross being on the long list. The FO will shorten that list to 4-5 and sign maybe 3 (yeah some on that list will be rostered invites).
A few free agent signings.. or minor league signings with spring training invites would be in addition to the trade potential I am suggesting..
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:56 pm

A few of the names that my be considered for trade, would include, but are certainly not limited to Yonder Alonso from the Reds system.. Alex Presley from the Pirates system (when he was up with the Pirates, he was impressive).. Cody Ransom from the Dbax system and Jai Miller from the Oakland A's system.. Any one of these four guys would have to be given some consideration as "impact" bats for the Indians in 2012.

-The Reds would need a pretty good SP / RP prospect as the center piece for a trade for Yonder Alonso
-The Pirates would need a corner IF'er / SP / RP prospect as the center piece for a trade for Alex Presley
-The Dbax would need to have a high ceiling SP prospect as the center piece for a trade for Cody Ransom
-The A's would need high OBP/Low Walk players at just about any spot in a trade for Jai Miller..

So, it's doable.. it's comes down to what value the Indians place on their own guys and if these clubs are willing to deal.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:41 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
jellis wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:I put this one on Acta.. not trying to be a CP apologist, but Acta has blown a few other games similar to this one this season..


I think its the right call, you dont want to use CP after all those pitches if you dont have to, with a double header you have to try and save the pen, I think it was the right call based on yesterday and it being a double header.



CHOOOOOOOOOOO


Either you put him in to start the inning or you put Pestano on then. With how CP is struggling, I just think it was a poorly handled situation.


Unless you're naming Pestano the closer, you do not put him in there in lieu of Perez. I agree, Perez has struggled some lately but since the 1st of August actually had a lower BAA than Pestano (heading into this afternoon). K-BB rates were similar. Since the Texas series Perez had only allowed 1 hit too (3 walks though). Agree that he hasn't looked right of late though.

I like Pestano as a better closer long-term (along with a few guys in the minors), but right now Perez needs to be in there in the 9th in save situations.

I agree with jellis, made some sense to start Masterson and see if he could finish the game. Would have been his 9 inning CG of the year. Would have been nice with the doubleheader for sure.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Bearcatbob » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:53 pm

McAllister needs a change of pace pitch. Too many at 90. Not over powering. Nor deceptive.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Bearcatbob » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:15 pm

McAllister does not have the "stuff" Hermann does. Not a top prospect. Based on up close andpersonal via.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Bearcatbob » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:33 pm

Bad D
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Prosecutor » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:24 pm

Looks like Manny is losing trust in Perez. He left Masterson in to pitch the 9th even though he was over 100 pitches. Then Perez shows why Manny didn't want him in. Lucky that Choo bailed him out.

McAllister is proving he isn't any more ready for the bigs than Valbuena and Phelps were when they got their shots.

It hurts to lose two games to the Mariners when you score at least 7 runs in each loss. They're the worst offensive team in the AL by a mile.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby jellis » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:43 am

I was there tonight, and Mcallister just does not miss any bats, he can not fool anyone at this level. He looked lost out there, like he was shocked that he could not get people out
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby criznit2009 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:10 am

Don't know why Jenmar doesn't get more love from the FO. Hasn't been great at the ML level in a handful of apperances but in the minors has definitely shown the ability to adjust and get better.... Time to give him all the extra starts IMO, lets see what he can do. I like him more than McAllister (always have) and already has extensive AAA experience it is time to see if he can get it done or not.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Bearcatbob » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:17 am

jellis wrote:I was there tonight, and Mcallister just does not miss any bats, he can not fool anyone at this level. He looked lost out there, like he was shocked that he could not get people out


We were there as well. My observation was that he has a 90 mph fastball and no effective change of pace pitch. I was disappointed in what I saw. Ultimately it comes down to management evaluating talent - and coaching to teach a changeup.

Bob
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:49 am

McAllister's fastball wasn't very fast and it was up in the zone..89 -90 with little run or sink

McAllister's breaking ball didn't break so much as it hung up in the zone over the plate...aka a hanger

McAllister's outing was a dismal failure.. It won't be his last. When McAllister is effective is when he is leveraging his pitches down in the zone and with downward tilt. Last night, everything was flat and up in the zone. Perhaps in September, after the Clippers season (congrats, btw) is over, Z-Mac will get a start or two where he can pitch effectively.. It would do wonders for his confidence. The look on his face while the M's were beating his brains in was quite telling..

(btw.. McAllister's effectiveness at the AAA level underscores the reasons why Little Luis Valbuena has been able to hang such impressive numbers. The difference between AAA SP's and ML SP's..is sooo much wider today than ever).
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:58 am

criznit2009 wrote:Don't know why Jenmar doesn't get more love from the FO. Hasn't been great at the ML level in a handful of apperances but in the minors has definitely shown the ability to adjust and get better.... Time to give him all the extra starts IMO, lets see what he can do. I like him more than McAllister (always have) and already has extensive AAA experience it is time to see if he can get it done or not.


Based on the five appearances (four starts) by JeanMar earlier in the season, his performance didn't really portend anything that would be considered cause for more chances. But those are just numbers. The part of JeanMar's game that was strikingly different than what can be expected from McAllister is his ability to miss bats. That alone should give JeanMar a leg up on the next start that is needed by the Indians. FWIW....
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Prosecutor » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:20 am

Last year Gomez started eleven games for the Tribe and in seven of them he pitched five or more innings and gave up two or less runs. He got lit up three or four times, but in those other seven starts we was very good.

I have a hard time imagining McAllister going 5-7 innings and giving up 0-2 runs 7 times in 11 starts based on what I saw last night. When the worst offensive team in the league beats you up like that it's not good. Even in the first inning when he retired the side in order there were two line drives to the second baseman.

I can see why the Yankees were willing to give him up for three months of Austin Kearns. He's strictly a AAA pitcher at his point, and I don't see the stuff for him to take it to the next level. Gomez has a shot at being a decent #5 starter, which is more than I can say for McAllister unless he improves dramatically.

The question now is whether the Tribe can avoid going into a free fall with Grady, Brantley, Kipnis, and Hafner out. Asdrubal is clearly exhausted after playing all but one game this year. He was 0-for-9 yesterday and failed to even hit a loud foul in game 2. Jimenez is screwed up and Chris Perez is in one of his funks. This is the easy part of the schedule and if the Tribe can't turn it around immediately they'll blow any chance they still have. I just don't think they have the horses.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby jellis » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:07 pm

if you lose 3 of 4 to a team that was scuffling badly like seattle then I think its time to stick a fork in cleveland
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Magneticnorth451 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:38 pm

They thought this was the 2001 Mariners, apparently.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Prosecutor » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:16 pm

Now Choo came down with an injury, too. He's the second Tribe player to go down while warming up for a game (Kipnis was the other). This is getting ridiculous. Grady and Hafner both got hurt on routine slides into bases. Kipnis pulled a hammy stretching before the game. Choo tweaked something in batting practice.

Now we've got Shelly Duncan hitting cleanup. Wow.

Yeah, you can stick a fork in what's left of them.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby martyinnewyork » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:29 pm

We may get a Top 5 draft pick next year at this rate...
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby GhostofTedCox » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:58 pm

It's hard to get upset with the Indians. The team they sent out there today was the Columbus Clippers. (But without Jerad Head).
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:29 pm

jellis wrote:if you lose 3 of 4 to a team that was scuffling badly like seattle then I think its time to stick a fork in cleveland


I'm not quite ready to go that far.....but things definitely look bleak.
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby timdav » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:02 pm

After years of complaining about the Tribe's shortcomings...I feel I have to be fair:

injuries, injuries, injuries, injuries; a mostly-young, inexperienced team with marginal offense.

A mostly-young, pretty-decent pitching staff that has realized they have to be near-perfect to win. I think that pressure wore them down.

As sick as I am as a fan of waiting til next year, and excuses...it's difficult to put a lot of blame in any one particular area in the organization.

I can't believe I'm kind of defending them. Pweh!
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Bearcatbob » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:24 pm

timdav wrote:After years of complaining about the Tribe's shortcomings...I feel I have to be fair:

injuries, injuries, injuries, injuries; a mostly-young, inexperienced team with marginal offense.

A mostly-young, pretty-decent pitching staff that has realized they have to be near-perfect to win. I think that pressure wore them down.

As sick as I am as a fan of waiting til next year, and excuses...it's difficult to put a lot of blame in any one particular area in the organization.

I can't believe I'm kind of defending them. Pweh!


I agree. We do need to see some move before next year to improve the batting order. IMO some player we like will have to be traded to add a new player we will like to better balance the team. We need to settle on a 1b and a catcher. We need to settle on 3b. We need a right handed hitting outfielder. For instance, should we trade Brantley for a right handed Brantley version?

Bob
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:42 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:
timdav wrote:After years of complaining about the Tribe's shortcomings...I feel I have to be fair:

injuries, injuries, injuries, injuries; a mostly-young, inexperienced team with marginal offense.

A mostly-young, pretty-decent pitching staff that has realized they have to be near-perfect to win. I think that pressure wore them down.

As sick as I am as a fan of waiting til next year, and excuses...it's difficult to put a lot of blame in any one particular area in the organization.

I can't believe I'm kind of defending them. Pweh!


I agree. We do need to see some move before next year to improve the batting order. IMO some player we like will have to be traded to add a new player we will like to better balance the team. We need to settle on a 1b and a catcher. We need to settle on 3b. We need a right handed hitting outfielder. For instance, should we trade Brantley for a right handed Brantley version?

Bob


Id look to trade Brantley. Feel like he could have some trade value, but reality is that he had a 702 OPS with 13 SB primarily playing LF. Hes young enough to where I could see teams thinking he could develop some more power. I think people were looking for any return in the Sabathia trade so his mediocre at best production was vastly overstated to compensate for LaPortas struggles. With that said I doubt they will trade him.

I also think Sizemores option could go either way at this point. $8.5M is a huge # for a guy that will most likely be hurt at some point and could possibly ruin any chance of trading him mid-season.

Would not mind seeing Carrera get a chance to play everyday the rest of the year
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Re: Mariners at Indians, August 22, 23 & 24

Postby criznit2009 » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:40 pm

NO way Grady makes 7+ mil next season in FA... You could still decline his option though and match it right up to what it was if you had too....
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