RSS Twitter Facebook YouTube
Expand Menu

Lineup Productivity

Talk about the Cleveland Indians, Major League Baseball, and other sports.

Lineup Productivity

Postby Bearcatbob » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:07 am

We simply cannot score. Around the diamond - how are we doing and what can we do?

1. Pitcher - true strength of the team.
2. Catcher - Marson hitting say .240 vs Santana at say .220. Seems to me when you throw in Marson's defense - Santana ain't cutting it.
3. 1b - LaPorta and Santana - pick one - neither are contributing what 1b should. Seems to me Santana should be considered for a bat rehab in Columbus. It also seems like any trade addition should be a candidate for 1b.
4. 2b - let Kipnis play. OCab say here one day a week.
5. 3b - let Chiz play. Hanahan say here one day a week.
6. SS - a position of strength. I think OCab say here one day a week/
7. LF - Brantley - a position of strength.
8. CF - Let Zeke play until either Choo or Sizemore are back- find out what he has got.
9. RF - let Fuko play.
10. DH - a position of strength.

So what to me does the above say? I think it says 1b is a position of need. A decision needs to be made there. Where does the group think the next bat will play?

Bob
Bearcatbob
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 618
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:10 am

Re: Lineup Productivity

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:23 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:We simply cannot score. Around the diamond - how are we doing and what can we do?

1. Pitcher - true strength of the team.
2. Catcher - Marson hitting say .240 vs Santana at say .220. Seems to me when you throw in Marson's defense - Santana ain't cutting it.
3. 1b - LaPorta and Santana - pick one - neither are contributing what 1b should. Seems to me Santana should be considered for a bat rehab in Columbus. It also seems like any trade addition should be a candidate for 1b.
4. 2b - let Kipnis play. OCab say here one day a week.
5. 3b - let Chiz play. Hanahan say here one day a week.
6. SS - a position of strength. I think OCab say here one day a week/
7. LF - Brantley - a position of strength.
8. CF - Let Zeke play until either Choo or Sizemore are back- find out what he has got.
9. RF - let Fuko play.
10. DH - a position of strength.

So what to me does the above say? I think it says 1b is a position of need. A decision needs to be made there. Where does the group think the next bat will play?

Bob


Santana has the 2nd highest OPS of any qualifying catcher in the AL (behind Avila) and he's 1st in OBP. How is he not cutting it offensively behind the plate?
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Lineup Productivity

Postby ChadS17 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:25 pm

I think first base is without doubt a position the Indians will look to improve this off season. Seems like they are still holding out hope for LaPorta. Not saying I agree, but imo they will/should move on this off season.
ChadS17
Rookie Baller
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:32 pm

Re: Lineup Productivity

Postby Prosecutor » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:33 pm

I'm not sure if there is a "next bat" unless we trade for one, and I haven't heard of any first basemen that are on the market. I'm still hopeful that Nick Johnson will be able to help at some point. Over his last eight games in Columbus he's hitting .320 with 3 HRs and 2 doubles, so both the power and average are coming around. Last night he had a home run, a single, and two walks in five plate appearances. Nice.

I'm extremely disappointed in Carlos Santana. He's hitting .204 from the left side, which is where the large majority of his at-bats come from. Defensively, he's below average as a catcher. He's only throwing out about 22% of base stealers, he has a tendency to launch throws into centerfield, and he lets too many pitches in the dirt ge away from him. So when a right-handed pitcher is starting, which is about 75-80% of the time, we have a sub-par defensive catcher hitting below .200. This is a bigger problem than first base, and it can't go on much longer before they have to do something, right?

The problem with Marson catching every day is that he can't hit right-handed pitching to save his life (.173) and Santana can't hit well enough to play first base. I've heard the Tribe is interested in trading for the Rockies catcher, Iannetta. I assume Santana would move to first base where he could concentrate on hitting and not have to worry about all the duties of catching. If they don't make a deal, then I guess we just keep Santana at catcher and hope his bat and his defense improve.
Last edited by Prosecutor on Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Prosecutor
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 976
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:51 pm

Re: Lineup Productivity

Postby Bearcatbob » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:35 pm

Should Santana play 1b and simply bench LaPorta? Which guy do we invest max playing time in? Or - do we say Santana like Chis and Kip and 2012 - and give him the C job.

Bob
Bearcatbob
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 618
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:10 am

Re: Lineup Productivity

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:38 pm

ChadS17 wrote:I think first base is without doubt a position the Indians will look to improve this off season. Seems like they are still holding out hope for LaPorta. Not saying I agree, but imo they will/should move on this off season.

This season still has 60 games to go.. and perhaps more if there is a post season.. at the outset of the season, the Indians FO, in not so many words, gave the indication that they would give Matt Laporta this entire season (assuming health) to settle into his role as the starting 1B.. The thought was, if he can play the position defensively without embarassing himself, if he can hit .240-.280, get 15-25 home runs, drive in about 70-90 runs.. his first full season in the major leagues would be a success.. Well.. in 75 games played (this includes a stint on the DL for a severe ankle sprain), he's hitting slightly below the range (.235), his home run total is in the middle of the range.. and his RBI's are right at the low end of the range.. The evaluation of Matt LaPorta performance: he's doing what was expected at the outset of the season. There's no reason to start a witch hunt to fix something that isn't broken..

Now, for argument's sake.. it's pretty clear that Matty does have the ability to do better.. MUCH better.. for that, he does need to improve.. across the board in all areas...
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3949
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: Lineup Productivity

Postby Bearcatbob » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:51 pm

Where do we play the coming "RH bat"?
Bearcatbob
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 618
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:10 am

Re: Lineup Productivity

Postby Prosecutor » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:53 pm

I think it's a huge stretch to describe LaPorta's season as a "success". Projected to 502 at-bats he hits .235/.695 with 18 HRs and 70 RBI. Those are not good numbers for a 26-year-old first baseman.

On top of that, he's hitting only .208 against lefties, which is where we really need him to be productive since we have so many left-handed hitters. Plus, he's hitting only .208 in July, which is when we really needed him to step up with Choo and Grady going down. He's also hitting an abysmal .161 with runners in scoring position and two out. He's been a rally killer of major proportions.

A typical example is the other night when he hit a solo home run in the 7th but with the bases loaded and nobody out in the bottom of the 9th he hit into a double play.

I don't buy that .235/18/70 in 500 AB's is a successful season for any first baseman, except maybe a 22-year-old rookie. But the Indians need LaPorta to produce against lefties, to produce when other run producers are injured, and to hit with RISP, and he hasn't done any of that.
Prosecutor
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 976
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:51 pm

Re: Lineup Productivity

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:55 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:Where do we play the coming "RH bat"?


LF/CF. Carrera has been solid lately, but still very replaceable.

Plus, while a lot has been made of Grady's splits....Brantley is pretty bad against lefties as well. His OPS is over 150 pts lower against them and in 109 at-bats against lefties this year he has only 3 extra base hits. While extra base hits aren't his game, consider all 6 of his HRs are off righties, all 3 triples and 15 of his 18 doubles.

Either one of those guys could be replaced by a RH bat (provided he hits lefties well of course).
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Lineup Productivity

Postby daingean » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:14 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
ChadS17 wrote:I think first base is without doubt a position the Indians will look to improve this off season. Seems like they are still holding out hope for LaPorta. Not saying I agree, but imo they will/should move on this off season.

This season still has 60 games to go.. and perhaps more if there is a post season.. at the outset of the season, the Indians FO, in not so many words, gave the indication that they would give Matt Laporta this entire season (assuming health) to settle into his role as the starting 1B.. The thought was, if he can play the position defensively without embarassing himself, if he can hit .240-.280, get 15-25 home runs, drive in about 70-90 runs.. his first full season in the major leagues would be a success.. Well.. in 75 games played (this includes a stint on the DL for a severe ankle sprain), he's hitting slightly below the range (.235), his home run total is in the middle of the range.. and his RBI's are right at the low end of the range.. The evaluation of Matt LaPorta performance: he's doing what was expected at the outset of the season. There's no reason to start a witch hunt to fix something that isn't broken..

Now, for argument's sake.. it's pretty clear that Matty does have the ability to do better.. MUCH better.. for that, he does need to improve.. across the board in all areas...


I see the Indians signing a FA for 1B that will compete with LaPorta and maybe MIlls at 1B next season. The signing will be similar to the Buck/Hannahan. Somebody whose job will be to compete for 1B.

As for now, 1B is the obvious place this team can improve offensively. A trade for a vet 1B that can hit middle of the order can put LaPorta in a 1B/LF type position. There are at bats to give him through Sept (or longer) where he could get 100 - 150 AB's.
daingean
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1538
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 12:06 pm

Re: Lineup Productivity

Postby criznit2009 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:27 pm

I think LaPorta's numbers are perfectly in line with how he has delivered so far over his ML career - before the start of this season he had almost 162 ML games. And his stats for this season look like they are going to mirror those. Once again his results are like last years..Looks like he could do it, if you will..... Do you give him another go next year? Hell yeah, but hes on a piping hot seat next year, and because its business the tribe will look into addressing this concern in the off-season, (Johnson maybe but as a lefty he is not ideal). A surefire catcher or 1B could send him on out (trade) or into the role of the 1B/OF bench guy as our new and improved "Duncan" ouch!
criznit2009
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 9:27 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Lineup Productivity

Postby Chip Davis » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:30 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
ChadS17 wrote:I think first base is without doubt a position the Indians will look to improve this off season. Seems like they are still holding out hope for LaPorta. Not saying I agree, but imo they will/should move on this off season.

This season still has 60 games to go.. and perhaps more if there is a post season.. at the outset of the season, the Indians FO, in not so many words, gave the indication that they would give Matt Laporta this entire season (assuming health) to settle into his role as the starting 1B.. The thought was, if he can play the position defensively without embarassing himself, if he can hit .240-.280, get 15-25 home runs, drive in about 70-90 runs.. his first full season in the major leagues would be a success.. Well.. in 75 games played (this includes a stint on the DL for a severe ankle sprain), he's hitting slightly below the range (.235), his home run total is in the middle of the range.. and his RBI's are right at the low end of the range.. The evaluation of Matt LaPorta performance: he's doing what was expected at the outset of the season. There's no reason to start a witch hunt to fix something that isn't broken..

Now, for argument's sake.. it's pretty clear that Matty does have the ability to do better.. MUCH better.. for that, he does need to improve.. across the board in all areas...


Well put Geronimo. He must get past the injuries though. The ankle sprain came at a terrible time as it seemed he was getting ready to go on hot streak. If his struggles become unbearable for a playoff contending team then send him down and bring up Johnson, but don't just eliminate his playing time. That would benefit noone including the Indians. The guy has hit his entire career and struggling in the first year or two in the bigs is not uncommon to say the least. His defense at 1b has been a pleasant surprise and he has ran into some bad luck with injuries, why are people after his head?
Chip Davis
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:44 pm

Re: Lineup Productivity

Postby Bearcatbob » Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:09 pm

The lineup tonight simply sucks.

The game was lost when the line up card was submitted.

Bob
Bearcatbob
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 618
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:10 am

Re: Lineup Productivity

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:49 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:The lineup tonight simply sucks.

The game was lost when the line up card was submitted.

Bob


Yeah, can't believe that lineup gave up 12 runs. Unbelievable.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Lineup Productivity

Postby Chip Davis » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:45 am

If Carrasco went 8.2 innings giving up 1 run would it have made a difference? He picked a good night to suck, but lately alot of games are like this one offensively speaking, just ask Masterson.
Chip Davis
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:44 pm

Re: Lineup Productivity

Postby martyinnewyork » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:28 am

The phrase "lineup productivity", when referring to the Tribe, is what is known as an oxymoron...
martyinnewyork
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 661
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:16 pm


Return to Beyond The Minors

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests