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Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

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Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby indians1 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:12 pm

Antonetti said anybody including elite prospects are available for the right guy.

Our elite guys right now are white, pomeranz, kipnis, and maybe chisenhall. I don't know who is available, but i would hesitate to give up a top guy in a trade.

We may have some depth in our system, but we don't have a plethora of elite talent. Our pitching has been good but i think for us to compete for a world series, we need a top an ACE. Masterson could be that guy, but it is early. The other guys are pieces but we need a really good 1-2 punch like we did with in 2005 with CC and milwood. In 2007 we had CC and carmona. We don't have that 2nd guy and masterson doesn't have the track record yet.

I would be in favor of a getting a mid-level guy like melky cabrera or something for a 10-20 guy in our system this year. Hopefully white will be ready to go next year and have no setbacks and pomeranz can help out by mid-summer 2012.

Kipnis is our best hittin prospect we have had since victor martinez I don't think we can afford to give up a guy with such high upside at 2B. The only guy i would consider giving up is chisenhall. I think he could be a good player but i don't think he will be great. His minor league numbers prove that. I would rather hold onto all of the top guys and give up a zach mcalister or jenmar gomez along with maybe cord phelps to get a decent player.

I think you stick to your guns like the phillies did with us without giving us an elite prospect. Jason Knapp was the closest guy and he was in single A. .
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby ClevBuck » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:55 am

Anybody but Pom, White, Knapp, Chiz, Kipnis
would have to be more then a 1 year rental to give up Weglarz or Chin Chen
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby go_tribe » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:47 am

out of our 4 elite guys, theres no way I'm trading Kipnis or Pomeranz. All star caliber 2nd basemen and Aces don't come through our system often.

For the right guy I'd be willing to part ways with Chis or White, but that guy can't be Hunter Pence or BJ Upton. Based on who's available this deadline, I wouldnt bother moving anyone better than our BOR starter depth, and the only preseason top 10 guy I'd move is Phelps.

I think Chen looks legit and don't want to see him shipped out either
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:59 am

There is not a player out there available or rumored to be that I give up any of the Big 4. But after that I seriously consider giving up any player depending on what we get in return. This is an over-inflated market with few difference makers but sellers requesting players in return as if they were giving up difference makers. It is why the Indians have not been able to complete a deal, because the requests have been absurd. Those requests will come down a lot over the next couple of days....and we should see a lot of movement now through Sunday (mostly Sat/Sun).
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:13 am

The plan for the Indians is to contend with a core of young, inexpensive, talented players acquired through the draft and astute trades for a window of time. That window is lengthened by the continued restocking and development of even younger more talented players. The inherent risks with this type of approach is clear: not all prospects perform when they get to the ML Level. This is when a ML trade is made to fill an obvious/glaring weakness.

So, what is the glaring weakness that needs to be filled?

-slugging OF'er? Both Shin-soo Choo & Grady Sizemore, when healthy, have proven to be exactly this. Both will be back on the field before the end of the 2011 season. Can they both be relied on to deliver the kind of performance that will make a trade 'moot'?.. they can, but will they? There is more risk involved with bringing in a veteran second tier guy from another organization who will have to adjust to his new surroundings in the middle of a pressure packed pennant race. To start with, the second tier guy, before he dons his jersey with Chief Wahoo on his sleeve will cost the Indians a prospective star of the future.. so it's two steps back to begin.. not a great way to fix something..

-F.O.R. starting pitcher? There are two names being bandied about regarding this glaring need. Ubaldo Jiminez, who is prohibitively expensive and James Shields, who has now been taken off the "available" list. There just aren't any of these guys available. Trading away these guys require HUGE risk by the trading club, so they expect to be handsomely rewarded.. Unlike the slugging OF'er, the acquisition of a F.O.R. SP is well worth the risk. It's the availability that's the issue..

-Regarding 3B Prospect Lonnie Chisenhall.. After watching the Indians keep and maintain the black hole at 3B for so many years, there is NO WAY IN HELL they should trade away a kid that can play the spot, hit with power, and make all routine plays. Maintaining the historic hole at 3B has to end. Fixing a glaring weakness while creating a new 'old' hole just doesn't make sense.

Just some random musings that maintain, the Indians will go quietly into thy goodnight at the trading deadline..
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:13 am

Pom, Kipnis, Masterson, AC, Santana are the only players I wouldnt trade. If teams still think highly of Knapp or Weglarz I would have no problem adding them to get a trade done. Would need an impact player with more than 1/2 a year left to trade Chis or White.
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby daingean » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:32 am

I would rather send guys like Phelps, Donald, McAllister, Gomez, Huff, L.Washington (arm strength questions), Weglarz (injury issues) and get a couple of mid-tier bats than send an elite guy and get a Elite player for a short period of time. Now Levon cannot be traded until next month (but could be a ptnl). I try to keep our "elite" prospects (although I do not consider any of White, Pom, Kip or Chiz to be an A++ talent but all are more of a solid A). I think if we got 2 good (not great bats) that would go a long way to getting this team a division title and playoff appearance (like a 1b/OF and another OF or a 3B/1B guy).
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby ACrank » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:42 am

If the trade involved a player coming to Cleveland that the team would control for a number of years I'd consider Pomerantz or White, possibly Kipnis, but I'd really have to be convinced to move Chisenhall. Problem is that sort of player might cost two players of that Ilk.

Otherwise, I believe there is ammunition for a deal, but you have to believe in the depth of your organization. You have to believe if you trade pitcher X and outfielder Y that there is other talent that's not going to cause the team to miss those players. Either that or you have to know when you are selling high on a player. (I think of the Lofton/Max Ramirez deal - at the time I remembered thinking long term the Indians would lose on the deal. Then I watched Ramirez make his rounds of organizations.)
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:06 am

Lloyd Christmas wrote:Pom, Kipnis, Masterson, AC, Santana are the only players I wouldnt trade. If teams still think highly of Knapp or Weglarz I would have no problem adding them to get a trade done. Would need an impact player with more than 1/2 a year left to trade Chis or White.


Pretty much where I stand.
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby ironmike » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:46 am

Weglarz? He's as soft as a marshmellow. Who would want him? Opposing scouts didn't give him any ringing endorsements this spring when being interviewed by Tony. He's hitting a buck 67 and struggling and most scouts feel he is overrated. Hasn't even demonstrated he can stay healthy. Lacks athleticism.
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:31 pm

Lloyd Christmas wrote:Pom, Kipnis, Masterson, AC, Santana are the only players I wouldnt trade. If teams still think highly of Knapp or Weglarz I would have no problem adding them to get a trade done. Would need an impact player with more than 1/2 a year left to trade Chis or White.


I'd add Chiz to that list of players I don't trade, but agree for the most part.
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby hoof32 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:37 pm

I'm very uncomfortable giving up any of Chiz, Kipnis, Pomeranz, and Alex White. Also hesitant to trade Phelps, who I think will be a good MLB player soon.

I think of the Bart Colon trade... do we want to be on the other side of that transaction?

I have zero interest in adding players like Melky Cabrera or Ryan Ludwick. We already have one Cabrera too many, and I didn't care for Ludwick's game when he was here a hundred years ago.

Sometimes, the best trade is the one you don't make.
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby Chip Davis » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:11 am

I'd like to know the offers for ACab. I'm not advocating trading him by any means, but if a deal can't be done to improve the team this year and the offer is ridiculous, well then I might consider it. Antonetti and Co. are in a good position really. They can pull off a trade that brings an immediate impact player or make a trade that deepens the farm with a top spec or more. Pom, White, Chiz go no where. Kipnis goes only for someone like Jiminez. I also think McCallister, Huff, and Gomez have better value than most here give them credit for. Thus a package of Kipnis, McCallister/Huff/Gomez, and a good bullpen arm should land anyone available. If not then pick up your tonka truck and go home.

I also think Tomlin should be "dangled' and see who bites and what's offered. His value couldn't be higher and I think he can be replaced by White, McCallister, Huff, or Gomez respectively. Looking to next year Pom, Barnes, and Rondon could force their way onto the staff too.

What does a package of ACab and Tomlin bring in prospects and/or player(s)? I would think it would be an exhuberant amount.
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby indians1 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:28 am

If a team was willing to give up a decent player in a trade that included weglarz, i do that in a second (assuming it doesn't include our elite guys). (Not likely)

like the earlier post said, weglarz is hitting under .200 and is not hitting with any power. His only attribute is that he draws alot of walks. Weglarz is 6-3 240 LBS. That guy should be pounding HR's and being a big RBI guy. The indians have once again failed to produce a middle of the order guy that could have taken over for Hafner or been the 1B. Weglarz was drafted back in 05 or 06 and he still is stuck in AA.

Laporta has failed as the RH hitter with some alot of pop. Santana has a long way to go before we can even think of putting him in that class.
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby Tondo » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:57 am

I still believe in Weglarz...many on here forget that a) he's still just 23yo and b) that he sustained some freak injuries THIS season....health is definitely a concern but when healthy he IS that power bat: look at last season....he was 22yo and solved AAA pitching to the tune of 24 XBH in his first 175 ABs at that level, that is impressive...he also still gets respect from MiLB pitching...even this year he has a .370 OBP...hello? Guy has an eye injury, can't hit .170 but still has a .370 OBP? Why's everyone so high on Chis but so down on Weglarz? Weglarz owned Chis in every category on every level, while being sidetracked by injuries...I'd hate to include Wegz in any deal, we would be selling low on him...we would do the same with Phelps, but Phelps has only insurance value for us should Kipnis fail...while Wegz doesn't play a premium position, he still is 1 of the few guys we have in the high minors that projects to be a #5-#6 hitter...if he develops into a Dunn or Reynolds kind of bat, I'd be very happy and I still see it...he isn't just "projection" hot air, he has done it when healthy LAST YEAR
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby daingean » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:43 am

Tondo wrote:I still believe in Weglarz...many on here forget that a) he's still just 23yo and b) that he sustained some freak injuries THIS season....health is definitely a concern but when healthy he IS that power bat: look at last season....he was 22yo and solved AAA pitching to the tune of 24 XBH in his first 175 ABs at that level, that is impressive...he also still gets respect from MiLB pitching...even this year he has a .370 OBP...hello? Guy has an eye injury, can't hit .170 but still has a .370 OBP? Why's everyone so high on Chis but so down on Weglarz? Weglarz owned Chis in every category on every level, while being sidetracked by injuries...I'd hate to include Wegz in any deal, we would be selling low on him...we would do the same with Phelps, but Phelps has only insurance value for us should Kipnis fail...while Wegz doesn't play a premium position, he still is 1 of the few guys we have in the high minors that projects to be a #5-#6 hitter...if he develops into a Dunn or Reynolds kind of bat, I'd be very happy and I still see it...he isn't just "projection" hot air, he has done it when healthy LAST YEAR


Wegs injury history is pretty significant. Plus he's a below average defender. I agree when he's healthy Wegs can be a big contributor but I haven't seen him healthy very often. IMO, he's 1 more back injury away from being Michael Aubrey. Now I only sell on him if the other team insists on him being added but I'm certainly open to it. I'm not writing him off but want to get something for him (especially a bat for this year) if we can.
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:51 am

The only way Weglarz gets traded is by him getting healthy and showing he can play the game. If that were to occur, the Indians would probably want to keep him.. With the hand thing, the leg thing, the eye thing.. the this thing and the that thing, he cannot be traded. Including him in any trade scenario seems self serving (getting rid of him), at best..
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby ChadS17 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:52 pm

You can only trade a guy once he's been in the system a full year, correct? So how is it even possible for Pomeranz to be traded?
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:53 pm

ChadS17 wrote:You can only trade a guy once he's been in the system a full year, correct? So how is it even possible for Pomeranz to be traded?


As a PTBNL, I think.
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby Edible14 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:54 pm

ChadS17 wrote:You can only trade a guy once he's been in the system a full year, correct? So how is it even possible for Pomeranz to be traded?


He would have to be a PTBNL, I think.
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Re: Who are you comfortable giving up in a trade?

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 pm

ChadS17 wrote:You can only trade a guy once he's been in the system a full year, correct? So how is it even possible for Pomeranz to be traded?


You could trade Pom as a player to be named later.

Then once it's been a full year, he becomes that player.

It's not used that often, but you can get around that rule this way. I believe the longest you can go with a PTBNL is 6 months? But not positive on that.


This probably belongs in it's own thread, but figure I'd just add it here real quick as it sort of goes with this rule.

I really hope in the next CBA they get the signing deadline in front of the trade deadline. This way, the whole 1 year thing is moot. I'd be fine with a simple flip-flop of the trade deadline and hte draft signing deadline. If you are really going to add another wild card, you are going to have more teams that think they could still be in it.....thus making deadline deals even tougher.

Reason we saw so little movement this year wasn't because teams weren't trying (looking at you Tondo), but because tehre were so few sellers. Add another wild card and there are likely even fewer. I say move the non-waiver trade deadline back 2 weeks. Still have 6 weeks (at least) of that player in your lineup which could be huge.
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