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Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby osueddy » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:26 am

Could Chris Perez have thrown anything other than a fastball tonight?

Good comment about someone slowing the game down. Just like the saying goes when you are nine years old, a walk is a run.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby entertheshoe » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:28 am

osueddy wrote:Could Chris Perez have thrown anything other than a fastball tonight?

Good comment about someone slowing the game down. Just like the saying goes when you are nine years old, a walk is a run.


Usually when someone is behind in the count or can't find the strikezone they go with the fastball. If his fastball wasn't finding the plate, I don't know if his other pitches would.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby osueddy » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:58 am

entertheshoe wrote:
osueddy wrote:Could Chris Perez have thrown anything other than a fastball tonight?

Good comment about someone slowing the game down. Just like the saying goes when you are nine years old, a walk is a run.


Usually when someone is behind in the count or can't find the strikezone they go with the fastball. If his fastball wasn't finding the plate, I don't know if his other pitches would.


Shoe,

I know how that works, but thanks. My statement was more rhetorical. When CP doesn't have his stuff, like any pitcher, he is hittable.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:38 am

And I long for the days when you weren't on this site. But hey, life is unfair at times
Whos said life had to be fair?. perhaps it was the same scouts who confirmed your opinion that Asdrubal Cabrera is a below average defensive SS?

...Valbuena can play the OF...


Vamalo can't play the OF..unless playing poorly is the plan. His jump on the ball hit by Valencia was akin to what you see on a dark highway in Pennsylvania = DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS.. he froze.. he didn't move.. and when he was approaching the ball.. he didn't sell out, he backed off.. Valmalo has a sum total of 13 games in the outfielder as a professional..including 11 games in the minor leagues this season. The only ball he didn't have trouble with was the one hit right at him..

..and it's not just last night's game where Valmalo has failed.. Time for a change... he's not part of the solution..
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Tondo » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:06 am

I think Valbuena is way down the culprit list for this loss...Perez is 1st Santana and Ocab share 2nd place...Santana simply wasted ABs tonight, he looks like he will either take the walk after 1 pitch or absolutely wants to hit the ball no matter what, he really looks like he has his mind made up early on if to swing or not, by now I can tell just looking at his body language at the plate

OCab? the fail job in the 1st probably cost at least a run and he led the team yet again with 4 LOB...I really hope he gets traded or just gets cut but understand that other dynamics are at work here...still, looking from the outside in playing him AT ALL already makes little sense, but hitting him in prime spots constantly is baffling to say the least

We're wasting precious QS right now and the non-moves have already cost this team multiple games...at the end I think it will cost us a PO shot by a couple of games...what a waste. Trade for a Willingham or B.McCarthy (or both) already, get it done
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Prosecutor » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:41 am

I agree with Rick Manning - I don't like the "no doubles" defense. You have three outfielders practically on the warning track and your 1st and 3rd basemen are standing on the foul lines. That leaves acres of empty space in the middle of the field with only the SS and 2B to fill it. Way too easy to get singles and bloop doubles.

Perez should have challenged Mauer, who is strictly a singles hitter at this point. With nobody on base a single is the same as a walk, so if Perez made him hit the ball at least there was a chance he hits it right at somebody.

After that it was two bloops that dropped in and the ballgame was over. Perez wasn't that bad, except for walking Mauer with nobody on. Nobody hit the ball hard against him.

I'm surprised the Tribe got one run considering they were facing a quality lefty without Choo, Brantley, Hafner, and Sizemore.

The good news is that Grady's injury doesn't look nearly as bad as originally feared. Apparently it's just a bruise. How do you bruise your knee running?

Tribe needs to beat Blackburn today in order to avoid a repeat of the Baltimore series where they ended up splitting after winning the first two. Blackburn has owned the Indians lately, so it won't be easy. Hope Brantley is good to go. Tomlin hasn't been all that great since the beginning of June, so he needs to do a good job against a weak offensive team with only one good left-handed hitter.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Edible14 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:31 am

Tondo wrote:I think Valbuena is way down the culprit list for this loss...Perez is 1st Santana and Ocab share 2nd place...Santana simply wasted ABs tonight, he looks like he will either take the walk after 1 pitch or absolutely wants to hit the ball no matter what, he really looks like he has his mind made up early on if to swing or not, by now I can tell just looking at his body language at the plate

OCab? the fail job in the 1st probably cost at least a run and he led the team yet again with 4 LOB...I really hope he gets traded or just gets cut but understand that other dynamics are at work here...still, looking from the outside in playing him AT ALL already makes little sense, but hitting him in prime spots constantly is baffling to say the least

We're wasting precious QS right now and the non-moves have already cost this team multiple games...at the end I think it will cost us a PO shot by a couple of games...what a waste. Trade for a Willingham or B.McCarthy (or both) already, get it done


Agree with most of this. But I think there's room to rag on Valbuena. Even in his routine outs, he looked like he was taking forever to spot and get under the ball. And his throwing was just... AWFUL. I know he never would have thrown out Cuddyer (?) on that play, but his throw was to the on-deck circle! It's been said before with him. He is not very good defensively even at 2B, and he's been a liability at other positions. He's not a good OBA guy, or a stolen base guy, and he's never hit at the major league level. Thus far, he looks like he brings exactly NOTHING to the table as a major leaguer.

I will say though that it takes two to tango on trades. The Indians supposedly have had an offer in to the Padres for awhile, but the Pads have held out looking for a better offer (Ludwick, I'm assuming). With every baseball analyst noting that the market is very "slow", I assume that's more or less what all of the sellers are doing at this point... waiting for the best offer.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:47 pm

Listening to Tom Hamilton's call.. his description of Luis Valbuena's at bat: "...I don't think he swung at a strike during the entire at bat..." Pretty damn sad...

Carrera did a helluva job going for that catch of Thome's sinking line drive.. great for viewing by the spectators.. Including the Indians Left Fielder, Luis Valbuena.. who was no where close to where a LF'er should be when a ball is hit like Thome's.. Valbuena CAN'T play the OF.. He can't hit.. He can't run...

... and now Valbuena can't make contact on a routine hit and run play.. this guy is soooooo useless...

.. and now Valbuena has a chance to redeem himself.. one out, runners at second & third, top of the 7th.. and he pops up to the infield on the first pitch.. this guy isn't bad.. he's worse than bad.. he's assassinating the Indians chances at winning this game.. He's gonna win the Twins MVP of the Game....

.. and now valbuena runs into Carrera in an attempt to catch a ball.. a ball Carrera should have gotten to with out the interference of Valbuena.. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY A DISASTER for Little Luis..

.. next screw up.. Valbuena charges the ball .. just when he's getting to where the ball is.. he slows and pulls up.. letting the ball drop in front of him at his feet.. THIS GUY BLOWS...

.. apparently Orlando Cabrera, having a sympathy moment for Little Luis, lets a liner go off his glove to plate the go ahead run in the bottom of the eighth inning.. smh...

This is a game the Indians should have won.. The loss of Buck & Brantley leaving Valbuena as the option for LEFT FIELD is INSANE. There wasn't a coaches decision to move little Luis back to the warning trace.. there was indecision and fear in his play. He's not a ML player. He needs to go...
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby jellis » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:07 pm

got to be honest after this series I think I am falling off the band wagon, I would for sure be shopping raffy perez since there are zero lefties on the market, he might fetch more than heath bell
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:44 pm

Tondo wrote:still, looking from the outside in playing him AT ALL already makes little sense, but hitting him in prime spots constantly is baffling to say the least


Would love to hear how it makes little sense to play him AT ALL when he's 5th on the team in OPS vs lefties, a mere 13 pts behind AC. I mean, we suck against lefties....so let's not play one of the few that can actually hit them.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:48 pm

jellis wrote:got to be honest after this series I think I am falling off the band wagon, I would for sure be shopping raffy perez since there are zero lefties on the market, he might fetch more than heath bell


Going .500 on a road trip is what is going to make you fall off the bandwagon?

If the Tribe plays .500 on the road the rest of the year, they'll be in this race til the end. :drinks:
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby hoof32 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:20 pm

Rafael Perez would get you a Giovanni Soto-type prospect... not worth it.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:27 pm

hoof32 wrote:Rafael Perez would get you a Giovanni Soto-type prospect... not worth it.


If David Purcey can be traded for Scott Sizemore, we could get 10 times that for Raffy
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby jellis » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:37 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
jellis wrote:got to be honest after this series I think I am falling off the band wagon, I would for sure be shopping raffy perez since there are zero lefties on the market, he might fetch more than heath bell


Going .500 on a road trip is what is going to make you fall off the bandwagon?

If the Tribe plays .500 on the road the rest of the year, they'll be in this race til the end. :drinks:



blown opportunities, and 500 on a road trip is bad when half the games are against the O's
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby jellis » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:38 pm

hoof32 wrote:Rafael Perez would get you a Giovanni Soto-type prospect... not worth it.



no he would not, not at all. Zero arms on the market who are lefties, he has 2 years left and does not make a lot. Not sure where you got that idea but its dead wrong
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby MadThinker88 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:42 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
hoof32 wrote:Rafael Perez would get you a Giovanni Soto-type prospect... not worth it.


If David Purcey can be traded for Scott Sizemore, we could get 10 times that for Raffy


If Scott Barnes hadn't gotten hurt I think Raffy would have already been dealt, - Barnes or Hagadone would have taken the open slot in the Cleveland bullpen. Since Hagadone is the only option right now, I think the team is being a little more cautious than normal.

Only other option is de la Cruz (and that might not be a bad route to go for a loogy).
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby jellis » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:52 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
hoof32 wrote:Rafael Perez would get you a Giovanni Soto-type prospect... not worth it.


If David Purcey can be traded for Scott Sizemore, we could get 10 times that for Raffy


If Scott Barnes hadn't gotten hurt I think Raffy would have already been dealt, - Barnes or Hagadone would have taken the open slot in the Cleveland bullpen. Since Hagadone is the only option right now, I think the team is being a little more cautious than normal.

Only other option is de la Cruz (and that might not be a bad route to go for a loogy).


I agree De la to me is now a reliever, and also something to point out when ever mentions relievers no one mentions Rondon who might also get back to the pen and was a top 100 spec in all of baseball by multiple sources. To me I would shop smith and Perez heeavily, and then consider moving C Perez this off season for some team that will over pay for an all star CL. Pestano and Sipp are the future of the pen, along with one of the 3 vets and the waves of young arms. Honestly I think the future CL is Pestano on this team
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Edible14 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:47 pm

I think we can wait until next year to shop Raffy Perez. I'd like to see Hagadone establish a bit more consistency before we hitch ourselves to that wagon. And if we're going to convert Barnes or DLC to relief... let's get them experience there before we make that move. We've got another year of club control, I see no reason to bail on him unless you're overwhelmed by an offer.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby jellis » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:51 pm

Edible14 wrote:I think we can wait until next year to shop Raffy Perez. I'd like to see Hagadone establish a bit more consistency before we hitch ourselves to that wagon. And if we're going to convert Barnes or DLC to relief... let's get them experience there before we make that move. We've got another year of club control, I see no reason to bail on him unless you're overwhelmed by an offer.


He is the 5th arm in our pen and would be the top lefty and most desirable pen arm available his value will never be higher
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby entertheshoe » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:59 pm

jellis wrote:
MadThinker88 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
hoof32 wrote:Rafael Perez would get you a Giovanni Soto-type prospect... not worth it.


If David Purcey can be traded for Scott Sizemore, we could get 10 times that for Raffy


If Scott Barnes hadn't gotten hurt I think Raffy would have already been dealt, - Barnes or Hagadone would have taken the open slot in the Cleveland bullpen. Since Hagadone is the only option right now, I think the team is being a little more cautious than normal.

Only other option is de la Cruz (and that might not be a bad route to go for a loogy).


I agree De la to me is now a reliever, and also something to point out when ever mentions relievers no one mentions Rondon who might also get back to the pen and was a top 100 spec in all of baseball by multiple sources. To me I would shop smith and Perez heeavily, and then consider moving C Perez this off season for some team that will over pay for an all star CL. Pestano and Sipp are the future of the pen, along with one of the 3 vets and the waves of young arms. Honestly I think the future CL is Pestano on this team


Heck, while we're at it, Jason Knapp might be converted to relief if he can ever get healthy and could become an EXTREMELY dominant reliever.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Edible14 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:03 pm

jellis wrote:He is the 5th arm in our pen and would be the top lefty and most desirable pen arm available his value will never be higher


Hence the "if you're overwhelmed by an offer" part. He's not untouchable by any means, but I don't think the Indians should be the ones actively shopping him. If they're burning up the phone lines, they need to be doing it looking for a bat.
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