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Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

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Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:08 am

Entering the series...
Indians: 49-44, T-1st place in AL Central with the Tigers. 22-26 on the road. 4-6 in last 10.
Twins: 44-49, 4th place in AL Central, 5 GB the Indians & Tigers. 23-20 at home. 7-3 in last 10.
...The Indians dropped two in a row, settling for a split in Baltimore, and allowing the Tigers to regain a share of first place on Sunday. The Twins are 26-12 since June 2nd -- the best record in baseball during that stretch. With 8 home games against the Indians and Tigers before the end of July, Minnesota can put themselves right back in the middle of a pennant race after having the worst record in baseball earlier in the year.

Monday, 1:10 ET
David Huff, LHP (0-0, ---) vs. Anthony Swarzak, RHP (2-2, 3.38)

Promoted for a spot start due to the double-header, Huff will be the first lefty to start a game for Cleveland this season when he makes his first appearance for the Tribe since Aug. 8, 2010 -- a 5-4 loss to the Twins. He lost each of his last 5 starts last season and hasn't won a major league game since May 23, 2010. He is 8-3, 3.86 ERA with Columbus this year, but his 5.7 K/9 rate is the worst of his pro career. He's found success against AAA hitters by mixing up his 5 pitch repertoire more, including a cutter that he didn't yet feature in his last go-around in Cleveland • Swarzak will reprise his role as spot starter -- where he's gone 2-1, 2.84 in 3 starts -- since originally scheduled starter Scott Baker went on the DL (elbow) Sunday. It would be difficult for Swarzak to pitch any worse than he has in the past against Cleveland, having lost both of his previous starts while posting a 12.38 ERA in 8 innings and allowing 17 hits, including 3 home runs.

Monday, 8:10 ET
Fausto Carmona, RHP (4-10, 5.78) vs. Scott Diamond, LHP (0-0, ---)

Carmona will be activated from the DL to start game #2 of the day-night doubleheader. He hasn't been on the diamond since stumbling down the first base line in Cincinnati. In his last 9 starts, Fausto is 1-7 with an 8.20 ERA. He has the worst ERA of all 49 qualifying AL pitchers, and despite the missed time is still one of only 4 double-digit losers in the league. • Diamond will make his MLB debut after Minnesota obtained him from Atlanta during the off-season through the Rule 5 draft and subsequent trade to acquire his rights free and clear. The 24-year-old is only 4-8, 4.70 ERA in AAA this season. Diamond gets the promotion by default, because rehabbing starter Kevin Slowey pitched on Friday and they won't promote top prospect Kyle Gibson for a single spot start. Diamond has pitched for Team Canada, but projects as a BOR starter/swing man. His best pitch is his curve, and he'll work a slider and change in around a fastball that seldom tops 90 mph.

Tuesday, 8:10 ET
Justin Masterson, RHP (8-6, 2.80) vs. Francisco Liriano, LHP (6-7, 4.76)

Back on a 3-game winning streak after posting an 0-6 record in May and June, Masterson has a 1.52 ERA over his last 29.2 ip, while holding batters to a .506 OPS. He's holding right-handers to a .199/.291/.252 line this season while making progress against lefties. He currently ranks 8th in the league in ERA. • Liriano has had a bumpy season, failing to make it through the 5th in 31% of his starts, but also pitching his first no-hitter. He allowed just 3 hits and one unearned run in 5 innings the last time he faced Cleveland, but was out-pitched by Carlos Carrasco in a 1-0 loss. Liriano's 4.7 bb/9 is the 2nd worse rate in the league by any pitcher with 75+ innings.

Thursday, 1:10 ET
Josh Tomlin, RHP (11-4, 4.03) vs. Nick Blackburn, RHP (7-6, 3.99)

Tomlin's 1.1 BB/9 is the lowest rate in the AL, so even without high strikeout totals, his 4.53 K/BB ratio is 4th best in the league. He'll attempt to become the 4th pitcher in the league to reach the 12 win mark, but over his last 10 starts, he's posted a 5.61 ERA. • Blackburn pitched 7 shutout innings against the Royals the last time he took the mound, lowering his ERA to a career best 3.99. However, he averaged just 4½ innings in his previous 3 starts, posting a 12.15 ERA. He's allowed 15 home runs this season and lefties are battering him to the tune of .298/.354/.447. That might help the Indians change their fortunes against him, since he's posted a 1.98 ERA over his previous 6 starts against them (better than he's done against any other opponent).

NOTES:
• Grady Sizemore (knee) is listed as day-to-day and will have more tests done on Monday. Expect the Indians to play Monday's doubleheader with a 24-man roster.
• In the last 5 games Carlos Santana is 6-for-19 with 2 home runs and 5 walks.
• Minnesota's offense ranks in the bottom 4 in the AL in every major offensive category, and combine that with the 3rd worst defense.
• Jim Thome hit career home run 596 against Kansas City on Sunday.
• The Twins are currently carrying 13 pitchers on their 25-man roster after demoting Matt Tolbert to bring back former Braves starter Chuck James for a second stint in their bullpen.
• Minnesota traded shortstop JJ Hardy over the winter for essentially nothing. Hardy is now posting an OPS of .822. Minnesota spent $15 million over the next 3 years for his replacement -- Tsuyoshi Nishioka -- who has hit .224/.297/.262 while being limited to 32 games by a broken fibula.
• Michael Cuddyer is hitting .378/.491/.578 in 45 July at-bats, but Twins management claims they won't trade him even if they fall out of contention.

Cleveland is 1-4 in their season series with the Twins.
4/23 • L • 10-3. Win: Duensing. Loss: Carmona.
4/24 • L • 4-3. Win: Pavano. Loss: R. Perez.
6/6 • L • 6-4. Win: Baker. Loss: Tomlin.
6/7 • W • 1-0. Win: Carrasco. Loss: Liriano.
6/8 • L • 3-2 (in 10). Win: Caps. Loss: C. Perez.

SCOREBOARD WATCH
Athletics at Tigers

7/19: Guillermo Moscoso (3-4, 2.16) vs. Rick Porcello (8-6, 4.78)
7/20: Brandon McCarthy (2-5, 3.64) vs. TBA (?)
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:10 am

hmm.. shelly duncan was optioned to AAA Columbus, ostensibly, due to the unbalanced right handed starting pitching of the Twins.. well.. how's that working out? Two mediocre lefties against a left hand dominant lineup.. Why hasn't Chris Antonneti / Mark Shapiro acquired Lawrence McCutheon????? just when we need him !! <rolls eyes>

Huff will be hyped for this start in Minnesota.. he needs a good outing to show he's more than a AAAA starter.. In his career against the Twins..Huff has allowed 35 hits in 100 AB's including 13 XBH's (6 2B's & 7 HR's) along with 17 walks all coming in 7 starts, 35 IP's.. In other words.. if he pitches to like he has in the past against these guys, it isn't going to be pretty..

Fausto will also be hyped for the start against the Twins. Against a newbie like Diamond, the Indians should dominate.

It's going to be hot and sticky in the Twin Cities.. perhaps, just perhaps, the Indians can stick a DH sweep on the Twins with the net result being an end to their 2011 season?.. btw..I'm shocked to see that both halves of the DH are going to be televised by STO.. Highly unusual.....

(pssst.. yes.. I know Lawrence McCutheon was a star running back with the Los Angeles Rams)..
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Prosecutor » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:39 am

I'm not counting on that DH sweep today. Huff doesn't inspire confidence and Swarzak has been pitching well lately. In the nightcap we face a soft tossing lefty, so we have no chance. Yesterday the O's brought in a soft tossing lefty with an ERA over 9.00 and he held the Tribe to one hit over three innings. We've never been able to hit those guys.

Not to mention Grady is out.

Then we get Liriano tomorrow so that's a loss since he's also left-handed. Earlier this year we got zero earned runs off him. Besides, we never score when Masterson is pitching.

Our best shot is the final game since Blackburn has been getting hit hard by lefties this year and Tomlin just seems to find a way to win. However, we've never been able to hit Blackburn (1.98 ERA in his last six starts against the Tribe), so I wouldn't be surprised to see the Twins sweep this series.

Sorry I'm not more positive, but playing the team with the best record in baseball the last five weeks on the road with Grady out and facing two left-handed starters just doesn't make me like our chances. I'm really concerned that this is the series that for all intents and purposes ends the Tribe's playoff chances.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:27 am

Sizemore placed on the DL for the third time this year. Huff recalled.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:41 am

We also have six players on the DL now: Sizemore, Choo, Carmona, Talbot, White, Crowe.

These injuries are really starting to become significant. I know people want to add pieces, but what about just getting our guys healthy? Would it be nice to add a bat or an arm for the stretch? Sure. But let's face it, we've been faced with some really bad luck as far as injuries go again this season.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:39 pm

Good first inning for Huff.. he was on top of his pitches... He's still on top of his pitches here in the second inning.. and is now working his way into a bit of a jam.. got a ground ball, but it found a hole...two on one out..

that ground ball didn't find a hole.. an easy double play, 6-4-3.. good job of getting out of trouble.. Huff didn't give Thome anything to hit in this inning..a wise choice..
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby entertheshoe » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:50 pm

I'm liking what I see so far in Carrera. His speed is welcome on a slow team and he's the ideal number 9 hitter to wrap around quasi leadoff and get on base for the top of the order. His swing reminds me of Kenny Lofton's. Not a beauty but he gets nice bat speed and really slaps it into the holes. I'll take him over Buck any day.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:06 pm

Nice rally by the Indians.. posting a four run inning should allow Huff to settle nicely...

Huff is working it..got Mauer to chase.. very nice to see Huff hang a ZERO after that four run inning...

A thing of beauty !..
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby indiansfan055 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:08 pm

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2011/07/grady_sizemore_theres_a_lot_of.html

The news about Sizemore looks really bad. I think at this point you have to assume he could easily be out for the year and will result in the Indians maybe becoming more aggressive on the trade front for an outfielder.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:18 pm

indiansfan055 wrote:http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2011/07/grady_sizemore_theres_a_lot_of.html

The news about Sizemore looks really bad. I think at this point you have to assume he could easily be out for the year and will result in the Indians maybe becoming more aggressive on the trade front for an outfielder.
It doesn't give you a warm fuzzy concerning the injury at all..but, as Grady said.. he doesn't know for sure:

"It's similar," said Sizemore, when asked about the injuries to his left and right knees. "It's hard to say whether it's the same. It's definitely a concern. It's the same area. Similar symptoms. It does feel a lot like it. . .but I can't say for sure."


The scan today should be more definitive w/r to the injury..
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:22 pm

Beautiful cut fastball in on the hands of Valencia.. really tied him up.. another zero for Huff... He's really showing something about his ability to pitch during this outing ...
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Prosecutor » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:06 pm

Six scoreless innings for Huff. Man, did we need that on the front end of a double-header. I don't want to get too high on him yet, though. As PCP pointed out, the Twinkies rank in the bottom four in every offensive category. Having a lefty to help counter Mauer and Thome really helps. We have a lot of games left against the Twins - maybe Huff can take Talbot's spot if he shows he's better than Gomez.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:10 pm

Huff has been scattering hits here and there thoughout the game.. he's throwing strike one..has one walk and is mixing his pitches well.. In short, he's showing, in this outing, that he has matured a LOT since his last stint with the Indians....

Nice to see..
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Tondo » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:35 pm

True....while the Twins aren't exactly an offensive juggernaut still hats off to Huff, didn't expect such a performance

Hate to say it but with this outing, he might now have some trade value...he had 55 MLB starts before today and almost a 6 ERA, with 1.6 WHIP, in AAA the last 3 years his ERA is over 4...probably has more speculative turn around value to us but who knows, maybe someone will bite...if so, I'd listen

Also...I'm pretty impressed with Zeke, he's a keeper 100%...he had 3 very nice ABs today, RBI single, warning track shot and a BB+SB...with Grady out I'd put him in the leadoff spot and let Brantley hit 2nd pushing everyone 1 down...LaPorta or OCab hitting 5th (they hit 6th before Grady went down) won't get us anywhere...especially vs RHP

Valbuena's ABs have been "ok" but not impressive, otoh they weren't horrible either so far....but I like his D, some nice turns yesterday and today and no Phelps-like nerves or mistakes...he looks like our potential MIF backup short to mid term and I'd be ok with that as long as he reaches .600-.700 OPS with his bat

Our infield is shaping up nicely for next season...Chis at 3B, SS ACab, 2B Kipnis, 1B LaPorta...backups Valbuena + Donald or Hannahan...I'm a little worried with LaPorta though and not compeletely sold on Chis but we'll see
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Prosecutor » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:45 pm

Huff's performance is very nice to see, although I'm at work and can't see it. Still..

The Twins first two hitters have on-base percentages of .309 and .319.

In the 3 hole, Mauer has a slugging percentage of .310, lower than everybody in the Tribe lineup except Valbs and Zeke. He's strictly a .270 singles hitter now.

Thome is hitting .217. Looks like he's running on fumes.

Delmon Young has 22 RBIs in 222 at-bats.

Then we get to the bottom three, who are hitting .229, .182, and .223. Wow. Tribe fans think our lineup sucks without Grady and Choo, but the Twins are a joke. Cuddyer is the only guy they have with any kind of decent production this year. How are these guys 26-12 since June 1? Gardenhire has to be the best manager in baseball by miles.

I'm encouraged by Huff's performance, but I'm taking it with a grain of salt.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby martyinnewyork » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:50 pm

Durbin spontaneously combusts...
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby entertheshoe » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:06 pm

martyinnewyork wrote:Durbin spontaneously combusts...


Just between you and me, I wasn't really too upset about that. Here's hoping that he gets replaced as the long reliever because of it. :drinks:
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby criznit2009 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:26 pm

Gotta love Chad "trainwreck" burDin........ Seriously even he has to wonder why he is still hanging around...... Any way..... Great outing by Huff today!!! Think he just earned another start.... If that one is anything like todays.... Might have climbed back in the rotation.... Who'd thunk it?
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:31 pm

one down.. one more to go this evening..we'll see if Fausto can keep the Twins bats cold.. back in first place.. ahh.. so nice....
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:58 pm

Is it just me or was Huff throwing from way further over to the 3B side of the rubber than he has in the past?
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:33 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:Is it just me or was Huff throwing from way further over to the 3B side of the rubber than he has in the past?

Not only was he the furthest toward the first base side.. but his cut fastball and slider were just diving into the right handers and away from the lefties.. It was a different approach for him.. than he's ever used while with the Indians....
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Tondo » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:08 pm

Well, to my eyes Carmona still looks the same as pre DL...needs coddling, showing nerves, overthrows..if this was a real Offense he'd be out of it already...the bats have to win this one, hope we get some runs off the undrafted, soft tossing lefty with a 4+ AAA ERA :nea:
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:13 pm

Okay.. time for Manny to have a one way conversation with, NOT FAUSTO.. but with Kearns.. That bush league stylin lamoid attempt to catch Casilla's liner and his half assed poor lob toward the infield should get him a one way way ticket to anywhere else..

That cannot be permitted..

That cannot be allowed..

The entire complexion of the inning changed on his dog shit lazy play.. These guys aren't on the field that long.. and they certainly aren't active that much.. it's not a lot to ask.. LAZY DOESN'T PLAY IN CLEVELAND!!...

:s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby criznit2009 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:06 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Okay.. time for Manny to have a one way conversation with, NOT FAUSTO.. but with Kearns.. That bush league stylin lamoid attempt to catch Casilla's liner and his half assed poor lob toward the infield should get him a one way way ticket to anywhere else..

That cannot be permitted..

That cannot be allowed..

The entire complexion of the inning changed on his dog shit lazy play.. These guys aren't on the field that long.. and they certainly aren't active that much.. it's not a lot to ask.. LAZY DOESN'T PLAY IN CLEVELAND!!...

:s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad :s_mad


Im surprised he stayed in the game.... That is without a doubt one of the laziest plays I have ever seen a Cleveland Indian make.... (After he fielded the ball any way)
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby entertheshoe » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:13 pm

Lou effing Marson! First HR of the year to the deepest part of one of the biggest parks. And they give him the silent treatment when he gets to the dugout, I love it!

Lou is probably the most underappreciated Indian but his work behind the plate has been something impressive. He's actually raking lefties too. If LaPorta doesn't improve we might end up seeing him platoon versus righties.

Go Lou!
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Prosecutor » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:39 pm

Lou came in hitting .341 against lefties and he's 2-for-3 tonight with a double and a HR. Wow. He should be starting every time we see a lefty. I'd even have him pinch hitting against lefty relievers except we'd have nobody to catch if Santana got hurt.

Two more hits for Brantley and a clutch two-out single by Pronk off a lefty. Nice.

Fausto looked like he was struggling early but hit his stride in the middle innings. Good decision by Manny to get him out of there after six innings with a successful start, which he desparately needed. Now it's up to the pen.

I'm really liking Zeke Carrera, too. That speed adds a missing dimension to this offense. Not that I wouldn't rather have Grady in center, but at least management was smart enough to put Zeke in there rather than simply moving Brantley to center and putting Buck or Duncan in left and Kearns in right.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby entertheshoe » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:15 pm

Prosecutor wrote:
I'm really liking Zeke Carrera, too. That speed adds a missing dimension to this offense.



I was thinking the same thing. He doesn't really look lost at the plate for a rookie and his speed is something that this lineup lacks. To be able to get on base, swipe a bag, and move into scoring position for Michael Brantley is huge, especially the way Brantley looks at the plate right now. That stolen base he had was awesome. Not many players in the league can get picked off by the pitcher and still make it to 2nd base in time. Plus there's no doubt that his error was caused because the fielder rushed himself knowing that Zeke has burners.

:good:
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:25 pm

Tondo wrote:Well, to my eyes Carmona still looks the same as pre DL...needs coddling, showing nerves, overthrows..if this was a real Offense he'd be out of it already...the bats have to win this one, hope we get some runs off the undrafted, soft tossing lefty with a 4+ AAA ERA :nea:

I wonder if Tondo watches the same game as the rest of us. In the one I watched, Carmona gave up two earned runs in six innings, one of which was primarily the result of a Little League manuever in RF by Kearns. Hardly a great pitching performance but not bad for a guy coming off the DL. Wonder if Tondo noticed how hot the Twinkies were until today. :reallyshocked:
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:54 pm

A pretty decent effort all around for the Sons of Geronimo tonight..now 4-2 on the post all star break road trip.. The Indians now get a tough lefty starting tomorrow.. Masterson needs to be masterful for the Indians to win the series in game three..

Pronk.. what more can you say.. he continues to be a force in the middle of the lineup...

Love the spot where Manny has put Zeke the Streak... When he gets on.. Brantley, a fastball hitter, gets plenty to chose from.. & he put the lumber on the ball tonight..

Loved Brantley's chiding of Hannahan to go after that pop up down the left field line that made the seats.. sort of sends a message..if it's in the air.. you bust ass to get to the ball..

FAUSTO still seems to be over throwing the ball a bit, especially early. Once he settled in.. his tailing / sinking fastball was beautiful to watch... very nice..

Onward to the game three of this series... Go Tribe.. !!
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Tondo » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:14 am

indianinkslinger wrote:
Tondo wrote:Well, to my eyes Carmona still looks the same as pre DL...needs coddling, showing nerves, overthrows..if this was a real Offense he'd be out of it already...the bats have to win this one, hope we get some runs off the undrafted, soft tossing lefty with a 4+ AAA ERA :nea:

I wonder if Tondo watches the same game as the rest of us. In the one I watched, Carmona gave up two earned runs in six innings, one of which was primarily the result of a Little League manuever in RF by Kearns. Hardly a great pitching performance but not bad for a guy coming off the DL. Wonder if Tondo noticed how hot the Twinkies were until today. :reallyshocked:


...yes I watched the same game...I wrote that late in the 3rd or 4th Inn and he looked lost...did you see OCab, Marson and Belcher get out there to calm him down? He was close to imploding again...his fastballs were belt high most of the time...if this was a real lineup and not Mauer, Cuddyer (they had 9 of 16 hits for the Twins) and a collection of AAA hitters he would have been crushed, guaranteed...if this start was in BAL, like Gomez', he would have looked as bad if not worse...

I really don't know how those guys could have that streak they had with this impotent lineup...must have been good pitching, timely hitting, good managing and a good dose of luck...remember when we started the year 30-15 with questionable lineup production?

If the best Carmona can do is 2 ER in 6 IP in AL-PETCO against a weak lineup, then I'm not holding my breath, sorry...gotta look at how he pitched and he never was in any kind of rhythm and he was overthrowing, that's what I saw..I also saw light hitting Twins bats not able to smash those high heats...but that's their problem. Our's is Carmona nor getting away with that against the Yankees, Ranger, Blue Jays, Tigers, Rays, Red Sox, O's, White Sox, Angels...you get the picture. Twins and maybe Mariners were the only 2 AL lineups he could have gotten away with a QS yesterday...at least that's what I saw
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby jellis » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:21 am

Tondo wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
Tondo wrote:Well, to my eyes Carmona still looks the same as pre DL...needs coddling, showing nerves, overthrows..if this was a real Offense he'd be out of it already...the bats have to win this one, hope we get some runs off the undrafted, soft tossing lefty with a 4+ AAA ERA :nea:

I wonder if Tondo watches the same game as the rest of us. In the one I watched, Carmona gave up two earned runs in six innings, one of which was primarily the result of a Little League manuever in RF by Kearns. Hardly a great pitching performance but not bad for a guy coming off the DL. Wonder if Tondo noticed how hot the Twinkies were until today. :reallyshocked:


...yes I watched the same game...I wrote that late in the 3rd or 4th Inn and he looked lost...did you see OCab, Marson and Belcher get out there to calm him down? He was close to imploding again...his fastballs were belt high most of the time...if this was a real lineup and not Mauer, Cuddyer (they had 9 of 16 hits for the Twins) and a collection of AAA hitters he would have been crushed, guaranteed...if this start was in BAL, like Gomez', he would have looked as bad if not worse...

I really don't know how those guys could have that streak they had with this impotent lineup...must have been good pitching, timely hitting, good managing and a good dose of luck...remember when we started the year 30-15 with questionable lineup production?

If the best Carmona can do is 2 ER in 6 IP in AL-PETCO against a weak lineup, then I'm not holding my breath, sorry...gotta look at how he pitched and he never was in any kind of rhythm and he was overthrowing, that's what I saw..I also saw light hitting Twins bats not able to smash those high heats...but that's their problem. Our's is Carmona nor getting away with that against the Yankees, Ranger, Blue Jays, Tigers, Rays, Red Sox, O's, White Sox, Angels...you get the picture. Twins and maybe Mariners were the only 2 AL lineups he could have gotten away with a QS yesterday...at least that's what I saw



you can insult the line up but that makes little since Minny has the hottest team in the american league, they have been playing as good as anyone and the names might not be guys you know but they are hitting well and playing well. Carmona beating them was a huge step to me
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Prosecutor » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:53 am

Carmona wasn't all that impressive, but he was way better than his previous nine starts where he put up an 8.20 ERA. It was a small, but possibly important, step forward. Now he needs to build on that in his next start and work his way back to where he should be, which is a guy who consistently gives you 7 innings while allowing 3 runs.

I think Carmona got his first swing-and-miss in the 5th inning, and he only got 2 or 3 the entire time he was in. He wasn't exactly dominating against one of the lowest scoring teams in the league, and he couldn't get Mauer out at all, but he made some pitches when he needed to. It's a start.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby criznit2009 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:45 am

Carmona is a powder keg. He was anything but dominant last night and skirted around the edges, though for him he kinda of does that anyway. I wasnt to impressed with last nights performance and think if he pitches that way against texas, boston, ny, tampa etc. he gets lit up like a roman candle.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:58 am

criznit2009 wrote:Carmona is a powder keg. He was anything but dominant last night and skirted around the edges, though for him he kinda of does that anyway. I wasnt to impressed with last nights performance and think if he pitches that way against texas, boston, ny, tampa etc. he gets lit up like a roman candle.
92-95 mph sinking fastballs that Carmona can throw for strikes at the knees.. is a nasty pitch that will NEVER be lit up..it's when he speeds up the bat with his less than effective slider, is when he gets lit up.. He has to learn to command those pitches to the edges and out for him to be dominating.. something he can and has done in the past.. It's a work in progress for FAUSTO.. and probably always will be....
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:29 pm

Tondo wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
Tondo wrote:Well, to my eyes Carmona still looks the same as pre DL...needs coddling, showing nerves, overthrows..if this was a real Offense he'd be out of it already...the bats have to win this one, hope we get some runs off the undrafted, soft tossing lefty with a 4+ AAA ERA :nea:

I wonder if Tondo watches the same game as the rest of us. In the one I watched, Carmona gave up two earned runs in six innings, one of which was primarily the result of a Little League manuever in RF by Kearns. Hardly a great pitching performance but not bad for a guy coming off the DL. Wonder if Tondo noticed how hot the Twinkies were until today. :reallyshocked:


...yes I watched the same game...I wrote that late in the 3rd or 4th Inn and he looked lost...did you see OCab, Marson and Belcher get out there to calm him down? He was close to imploding again...his fastballs were belt high most of the time...if this was a real lineup and not Mauer, Cuddyer (they had 9 of 16 hits for the Twins) and a collection of AAA hitters he would have been crushed, guaranteed...if this start was in BAL, like Gomez', he would have looked as bad if not worse...

I really don't know how those guys could have that streak they had with this impotent lineup...must have been good pitching, timely hitting, good managing and a good dose of luck...remember when we started the year 30-15 with questionable lineup production?

If the best Carmona can do is 2 ER in 6 IP in AL-PETCO against a weak lineup, then I'm not holding my breath, sorry...gotta look at how he pitched and he never was in any kind of rhythm and he was overthrowing, that's what I saw..I also saw light hitting Twins bats not able to smash those high heats...but that's their problem. Our's is Carmona nor getting away with that against the Yankees, Ranger, Blue Jays, Tigers, Rays, Red Sox, O's, White Sox, Angels...you get the picture. Twins and maybe Mariners were the only 2 AL lineups he could have gotten away with a QS yesterday...at least that's what I saw



Semi-agree with you Tondo. Carmona didn't look great last night. However, think you're being a far too harsh. Carmona definitely labored at times and seemed allergic to throwing 1st pitch strikes. But that isn't as bad a lineup as you're making it out to be, and as a few have said, they've been pretty hot lately (as a team, hitting well in July, better than the O's).

Was definitely a start that Carmona can build on. Not great but 2 runs in 6 innings against any lineup is a job well done. 1st start off the DL too; I'll take it. :drinks:
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Tondo » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:20 pm

Boy, OCab is so useless...swings at ball 4 in the dirt for a K+CS instead of having runners on 1st and 2nd with 0 outs...they can hire a clown if they need his "fun", this guy pisses me off big time...he's an AVG defender at best with a useless bat, yet he's allowed to hit 2nd and 5th/6th in the lineup..wtf?
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:56 pm

Tondo wrote:Boy, OCab is so useless...swings at ball 4 in the dirt for a K+CS instead of having runners on 1st and 2nd with 0 outs...they can hire a clown if they need his "fun", this guy pisses me off big time...he's an AVG defender at best with a useless bat, yet he's allowed to hit 2nd and 5th/6th in the lineup..wtf?


Terrible single there and terrible play going to 2nd on that ball in the dirt too...

Against a lefty, he actually has been solid this year. Not great, but with this club he belongs near the top of the lineup against them
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby jellis » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:45 pm

perez looks like he will blow this one, hes a very good arm in the pen but far from the dominate back end guy. I would not be opposed to trading him at any point when his value has peaked
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:51 pm

jellis wrote:perez looks like he will blow this one, hes a very good arm in the pen but far from the dominate back end guy. I would not be opposed to trading him at any point when his value has peaked


Yeah....worst K/BB ratio of any of our current relievers. Never feel safe when he comes in. Reminds me of Wickman, will get the job done more often than not though.


Hats off to Masterson though. Another amazing start; he deserved a better fate.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby entertheshoe » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:51 pm

Would have been nice to steal this one with no Grady, no Brantley, no Hafner, and no Choo but 1 run just isn't going to get it done. Waste of another great start from Masterson. God we're terrible versus lefties...
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Edible14 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:52 pm

jellis wrote:perez looks like he will blow this one, hes a very good arm in the pen but far from the dominate back end guy. I would not be opposed to trading him at any point when his value has peaked


Good call. Also, looked plenty pissed off about it.

And so ends the Luis Valbuena as an outfielder experiment.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:01 pm

Edible14 wrote:And so ends the Luis Valbuena as an outfielder experiment.


Not likely. Still will see time in an emergency out there (which is what today was, 2 OFer down with illness/injury).
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Edible14 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:06 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Not likely. Still will see time in an emergency out there (which is what today was, 2 OFer down with illness/injury).


True. But I was more suggesting that he shall neverevereverever be considered anything more than that at this point. I'm more or less assuming that this kind of emergency isn't likely to happen again.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby smt1192 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:14 pm

Edible14 wrote:
jellis wrote:perez looks like he will blow this one, hes a very good arm in the pen but far from the dominate back end guy. I would not be opposed to trading him at any point when his value has peaked


Good call. Also, looked plenty pissed off about it.

And so ends the Luis Valbuena as an outfielder experiment.


Not really Valbuena's fault. The coaches lined the outfield up that way. NO major league outfielder would have gotten to either of those from where Valbuena was playing.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:16 pm

Very disheartening loss tonight.. Masterson was masterful.. again..

Good job by Sipp to work out of the 8th inning.. he's becoming more and more reliable.. Glad to hear Buck isn't injured or has any concussion effects... Good AB's by LaPorta tonight, especially against Liriano.. he was right on the ball, save for his first AB...

Bases loaded.. no outs.. and one run is scored.. on a sac fly to right, even.. the ability to execute fundamental offensive baseball is essential for a pitching/defense kind of club.. No a clutch hit in sight..

Perez was out there on that island.. all alone..and he blew it.. Where was the visit from Manny/Belcher to calm him down?.. where was the vet leadership of O-cabby to slow him down?.. where was Marson/Santana to talk some sense into him?.. There just wasn't anything that was going to slow down this trainwreck in the 9th inning tonight...

Luis Valmalo is a waste of a roster spot.. he can't play the outfield. He can't hit.. he can't run.. he's now hitting a robust .167 during his stint with the Indians.. I long for the days when he was hitting .202.... This AAAA player has to go.. Where is Jason Donald?.. If we're going to give up games.. at least go down swinging..
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:17 pm

smt1192 wrote:
Edible14 wrote:
jellis wrote:perez looks like he will blow this one, hes a very good arm in the pen but far from the dominate back end guy. I would not be opposed to trading him at any point when his value has peaked


Good call. Also, looked plenty pissed off about it.

And so ends the Luis Valbuena as an outfielder experiment.


Not really Valbuena's fault. The coaches lined the outfield up that way. NO major league outfielder would have gotten to either of those from where Valbuena was playing.
It wasn't the getting to the ball in the air.. it was getting to the ball and NOT permitting a double.. The so called "No Doubles defense" created the double..
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:24 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:It wasn't the getting to the ball in the air.. it was getting to the ball and NOT permitting a double.. The so called "No Doubles defense" created the double..


And Valbuena obviously picked what "defense" to run there.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby entertheshoe » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:28 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Very disheartening loss tonight.. Masterson was masterful.. again..

Good job by Sipp to work out of the 8th inning.. he's becoming more and more reliable.. Glad to hear Buck isn't injured or has any concussion effects... Good AB's by LaPorta tonight, especially against Liriano.. he was right on the ball, save for his first AB...

Bases loaded.. no outs.. and one run is scored.. on a sac fly to right, even.. the ability to execute fundamental offensive baseball is essential for a pitching/defense kind of club.. No a clutch hit in sight..

Perez was out there on that island.. all alone..and he blew it.. Where was the visit from Manny/Belcher to calm him down?.. where was the vet leadership of O-cabby to slow him down?.. where was Marson/Santana to talk some sense into him?.. There just wasn't anything that was going to slow down this trainwreck in the 9th inning tonight...

Luis Valmalo is a waste of a roster spot.. he can't play the outfield. He can't hit.. he can't run.. he's now hitting a robust .167 during his stint with the Indians.. I long for the days when he was hitting .202.... This AAAA player has to go.. Where is Jason Donald?.. If we're going to give up games.. at least go down swinging..


Disagree about Valbuena. I don't see why everyone is being so hard on him in the outfield. His alignment was terrible but that's coaching. Only thing that you can get on him about is not laying out for the game winning hit, or at least attempting a layout because he wasn't going to throw them out anyways.

Does anyone have a better idea of who to play LF in that case? It's not his fault Buck got hit in the head and Brantley was sick. And 18 at bats is way too little time to judge whether he can hit or not. If he gets a hit in his next at bat his BA raised to 211 and another it raises to 250. He's not going to bat .300 but he's not an everyday player either way.

Jason Donald could get a shot but he can't even go to LF if he had to. I don't see how he fixes anything though.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:32 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Luis Valmalo is a waste of a roster spot.. he can't play the outfield. He can't hit.. he can't run.. he's now hitting a robust .167 during his stint with the Indians.. I long for the days when he was hitting .202.... This AAAA player has to go.. Where is Jason Donald?.. If we're going to give up games.. at least go down swinging..


And I long for the days when you weren't on this site. But hey, life is unfair at times (j/k?). :s_tongue


Valbuena can play the OF; Donald hasn't. Donald was also not in the lineup again tonight for the Clippers as his hamstring is still bothering him (either a long ass cramp or something more).

Valbuena actually makes more sense for this club than Donald at the moment. More versatile and a better pinch runner/speed guy (though neither is a burner).

We also don't need a SS or 3B right now with AC, Chiz, and Hannahn on the team.....those are the only positions Donald has played this year. He wasn't good at all at 2B last year, we saw how Phelps looked when calling him up after not playing the position for a while. Donald just doesn't fit on this club, hits lefties but so do O-Cab and Hannahan.
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Re: Indians at Twins, July 18, 19 & 20

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:56 pm

At the end of the day, this loss is on Perez. Offense didn't do them any favors, but Perez has to come in and throw strikes. Was behind on too many hitters. Bad game for him; hopefully the Tribe rebounds tomorrow and takes the series :drinks:
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