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Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

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Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:15 am

Entering the series...
Indians: 46-39, 1st place in AL Central with a 1½ game lead. 26-15 at home. 6-4 in last 10.
Blue Jays: 42-46, 4th place in AL East, 10½ GB the Yankees. 23-24 on the road. 3-7 in last 10.
...The Indians have won their 3rd series in a row and added a game to their lead on Detroit this week while improving upon the AL's best home record. The Blue Jays have dropped 11 of 17, anchoring them in 4th place for the past month.

Thursday, 7:05 ET
Zach McAllister, RHP (0-0, --- ERA) vs. Carlos Villanueva, RHP (5-1, 3.24 ERA)

McAllister will be making his MLB debut. He was acquired from the Yankees last season in exchange for current teammate Austin Kearns. He was 8-3, 2.97 ERA for Columbus this year, and ranked 4th in the IL in ERA, T-4th in wins, and 1st in complete games with 3. McAllister's strengths are his control and pitching smarts. He'll throw his fastball mostly in the 87-91 mph range, and works primarily off his sinker-slider combo, but will also show a curve. • Villanueva has been a rubber-armed reliever and spot starter, making 50+ appearances in each of the four previous seasons. Since replacing the injured Jesse Litsch, Villnueva has gone 4-1, 4.13 ERA in 8 starts, holding opponents to a .294 obp. He's been especially effective against lefties this season –– .201/.268/.299. He's pitched just 2 innings in his career against Cleveland and allowed 2 runs.

Friday, 7:05 ET
Mitch Talbot, RHP (2-5, 5.60) vs. Jo-Jo Reyes, LHP (3-7, 4.85 ERA)

Talbot is averaging just 5.3 innings per start, and only completed 4 his last time out in a 7-5 loss to Cincinnati, allowing 6 ER on 10 hits. However, his previous start against Toronto was his 2nd best of the season, when he held them to 1 run over 6.2 innings. It was also his last victory, as he's 0-4 over his last 6 starts. • Jo-Jo Reyes will hope to right his ship against the Indians once again. Last month he picked up his first win in 3 years and 29 starts with a complete game 11-1 victory. Now he's looking to end a 3-game stretch in which he's allowed 14 runs in 15 innings, allowing a .338 BAA. His .298 BAA for the season is worst in the AL, and his .815 OPS against is 2nd worst.

Saturday, 7:05 ET
Josh Tomlin, RHP (10-4, 3.78 ERA) vs. Brandon Morrow, RHP (5-4, 4.73 ERA)

Tomlin no-hit the Yankees for 6 innings in his previous start and a late rally allowed him to become the AL's fifth 10-game winner. His previous start against Toronto was one of the worst of his career, allowing 6 ER in 6 ip, but that all came after his offense staked to a 12-0 lead for an easy victory. Tomlin is an interesting study of efficiency, average 6.5 innings/start despite Manny Acta's cautious handling of him, at 91 pitches/game. • Morrow has won his last 3 decisions, posting a 2.85 ERA over his past 4 outings. However, Cleveland gave him his second worst beating of the season last month when they scored 6 runs in 5 innings. Morrow's 10.8 K/9 is a ridiculous 1.9 higher than any other starter in the league, and he's cut his walk rate to a career low 3.7, but still throws too many pitches to average more than 5.7 IP/start. He's been dominant against righties (.210/.297/.283), but not so much against lefties (.279/.347/.430).

Sunday, 7:05 ET
Carlos Carrasco, RHP (8-5, 3.95 ERA) vs. Brett Cecil, LHP (1-4, 6.37 ERA)

Carrasco couldn't stop the big inning his last time on the mound, allowing 6 ER on 10 hits in 4 innings. That was more earned runs than he had allowed in his previous 5 starts combined. That means he's still posted a 2.21 ERA while winning 4 of his last 6 starts. He's one of several Tribe pitchers who can advantage of facing a right-handed heavy Toronto lineup (RH have a .535 OPS vs. him, LH .846). • Cecil was demoted and made 12 starts at AAA after a rough April in Toronto's rotation (6.88 ERA). This will be his 3rd start since rejoining the staff, and he'll try to build off his best start of the season –– a tough-luck loss to Boston in which he allowed 3 runs in 8 innings -- last time out. The Indians might want to work their right-handers into the lineup against Cecil (.304/.365/.587), but he's had success against Cleveland in the past, with an ERA of 1.00 in 27 innings (30 K's), although he's just 1-0 in the 4 starts.

NOTES:
• At 27 years, 8+ months, Mitch Talbot will be the oldest starting pitcher in this series.
• Matt LaPorta was 2-for-4 in his first game back from the DL (ankle sprain).
• Shin-Soo Choo (thumb) had his cast removed on Wednesday, and hopes to be back by the 2nd week of August, but at this point it's more hope than reality.
• Jose Bautista needs one home run in the series to match George Bell's team record of 29 before the All-Star break. He's gone deep 4 times in the past 6 games.
• Yunel Escobar has 14 hits in his last 25 at-bats. He went 4-for-5 Wednesday despite having not started a game in 5 days due to a hand injury.
• JP Arencibia left Wednesday's game after being hit on the left wrist by a Jonathan Papelbon. He appeared to be alright, but will be reevaluated in Cleveland. He's had recurring hand problems due to a dislocated thumb in May.
• Toronto has recently undergone a youth movement in the outfield. Rookie Eric Thames has taken over LF from Corey Patterson and is posting an .876 OPS in 85 at-bats. Travis Snider was recalled from AAA for one more trial as the RF when Juan Rivera was placed on waivers. Snider -- the 14th overall pick of the '06 draft -- is still just 23, but has struggled to establish himself in parts of 3+ MLB seasons. He reportedly revamped his swing this year in AAA.
• The Blue Jays have a revolving door at 3B in their futile attempt to find some acceptable combination of leather and wood. Three players have logged at least 20 games there, including two former Indians. Jayson Nix is hitting .169/.245/.309, which makes John McDonald look like an offensive substitute at .215/.264/.308.

The Indians went 2-1 in their previous series with the Jays. This will be the last series between the two this season.
6/10 • L • 11-1. Win: Reyes. Loss: Carmona.
6/11 • W • 6-3. Win: Talbot. Loss: Morrow.
6/12 • W • 13-9. Win: Tomlin. Loss: Drabek.

SCOREBOARD WATCH
Tigers at Royals

7/7: Max Scherzer (9-4, 4.90) vs. Danny Duffy (1-3, 5.09)
7/8: Rick Porcello (7-6, 4.96) vs. Kyle Davies (1-7, 7.77)
7/9: Charlie Furbush (1-2, 3.08) vs. Luke Hochevar (5-8, 5.17)
7/10: Justin Verlander (11-4, 2.26) vs. Jeff Francis (3-9, 4.69)
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:27 am

I'm especially hoping for a bounce back performance from Carrasco -- I'm spending the weekend in the Cleveland area and heading to Lake County Saturday night and Cleveland Sunday afternoon. Someone will need to fill in for me for the first series preview after the All-Star break. I'm heading to the baseball hall of fame next week, and will be spending most of that Thursday doing the mind-numbing drive back on I-90.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:32 am

Pork Chop Pough wrote:I'm especially hoping for a bounce back performance from Carrasco -- I'm spending the weekend in the Cleveland area and heading to Lake County Saturday night and Cleveland Sunday afternoon. Someone will need to fill in for me for the first series preview after the All-Star break. I'm heading to the baseball hall of fame next week, and will be spending most of that Thursday doing the mind-numbing drive back on I-90.
We got your back on the post ASB series... Classic Park on Saturday and Progressive Field on Sunday.. does it get any better than that?
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby GhostofTedCox » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:49 am

Pork Chop Pough wrote:I'm especially hoping for a bounce back performance from Carrasco -- I'm spending the weekend in the Cleveland area and heading to Lake County Saturday night and Cleveland Sunday afternoon. Someone will need to fill in for me for the first series preview after the All-Star break. I'm heading to the baseball hall of fame next week, and will be spending most of that Thursday doing the mind-numbing drive back on I-90.


I don't know if you've been to Cooperstown before. But if not, prepare for an experience you will not forget. The museum is like a candy store for baseball fanatics. Plus many times there are HOF'ers just hanging around and very approachable. The town itself feels like you are on a movie set. Have fun.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:25 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:I don't know if you've been to Cooperstown before. But if not, prepare for an experience you will not forget. The museum is like a candy store for baseball fanatics. Plus many times there are HOF'ers just hanging around and very approachable. The town itself feels like you are on a movie set. Have fun.

This will be my third trip, but the other two were 10-15 years ago. I'm taking my 16-year-old nephew along, who's never been there... I know he'll love it, and I've been wanting to go back, so I figured we'd better go now before his life gets too busy with girls, jobs, college, etc. Speaking of Hall of Famers just hanging around, on my first trip there my best friend and I were walking down Main Street when we discovered that Bob Feller just happened to be signing at one of the stores, so we randomly met the greatest Indian of all time. The only problem is that it hadn't occurred to me that my other trips were "off-season"... I wasn't quite prepared to see accommodation prices 3x's more than I was thinking.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Tondo » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:37 pm

Why the hell is OCab batting 6th against a RHP and Chisenhall, the night after his 1st ML HR, 9th?

Anyone? :s_dunno
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:42 pm

Tondo wrote:Why the hell is OCab batting 6th against a RHP and Chisenhall, the night after his 1st ML HR, 9th?

Anyone? :s_dunno


I guess Acta doesn't want a 3rd straight lefty after Hafner/Grady and thinks that it might be too soon to put Matt LaPorta up to 6th. :s_dunno
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:52 pm

Well, McAllister has most of his firsts out of the way. First walk, first strikeout, first earned run, first error.

Nowhere to go but up now! :friends:
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:55 pm

ugh...this is EXACTLY why you don't have 2 backup OFers and only 1 backup infielder.....

For a guy with 1 concussion this year, not good. Hopefully it's just a bloody nose and nothing broke or concussed...
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:01 pm

Pretty huge shiner he had there, I really hope nothing was broken. That would really dampen my mood.

By the way, what is that, the 4th hit batter in 2 games? If we were the Yankees we'd be whining like little babies.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:43 pm

Buck looks completely lost out there.

Not a great start by McAllister. Too many first pitch balls and he got behind on way too many batters late in the count. That said, 2 ER (altho it was more like 3 imo) considering the circumstances isn't that terrible. Something to build upon at least.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Tondo » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:09 pm

OCab ABs are so tilting...guy gets a rare 2-0 count and then swings at a crap pitch and pops up to the catcher :bad: wtf is he bating 6th against a RHP??? He now has 6 of the 13 team LOB...Phelps down and OCab back to his "lazy" self it seems...the job battle did some good to him, I think he'll regress without this kind of pressure
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:15 pm

Tondo wrote:OCab ABs are so tilting...guy gets a rare 2-0 count and then swings at a crap pitch and pops up to the catcher :bad: wtf is he bating 6th against a RHP??? He now has 6 of the 13 team LOB...Phelps down and OCab back to his "lazy" self it seems...the job battle did some good to him, I think he'll regress without this kind of pressure


Personally wouldn't have hit him 6th either, but it's one game. bottom 3 starters are 0 for 4 combined too, so not like we'd be any better if one of them hit 6th.


But man, Acta just can't win. Gets reamed for hitting the young guys too high...now for hitting them too low.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Tondo » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:36 pm

Not hating Acta...just don't get why he had Chis bating 9th vs a RHP the day after he hit his 1st HR...Chis reached base in every game so far, hitting in all but 1 I think...he should have batted 6th...I understand "hiding" LaPorta and Buck, who really continues his useless streak btw...would have rather seen Duncan...guy has earned some playing time and should be above both Buck and Kearns on the shit list imho
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:44 pm

Tondo wrote:Not hating Acta...just don't get why he had Chis bating 9th vs a RHP the day after he hit his 1st HR...Chis reached base in every game so far, hitting in all but 1 I think...he should have batted 6th...I understand "hiding" LaPorta and Buck, who really continues his useless streak btw...would have rather seen Duncan...guy has earned some playing time and should be above both Buck and Kearns on the shit list imho


Personally have no issue with splitting up the lefties. And also not a fan of setting a lineup based on what a guy did the day before. Yes, Chiz hit a HR yesterday.....but doesn't mean he needs to bat 6th. Peronally would have flipped-flopped Buck and Chiz but not something that's a huge deal imo. To each their own. Would have preferred to see laporta, chiz, oc, buck (6-9).
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:50 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:Not hating Acta...just don't get why he had Chis bating 9th vs a RHP the day after he hit his 1st HR...Chis reached base in every game so far, hitting in all but 1 I think...he should have batted 6th...I understand "hiding" LaPorta and Buck, who really continues his useless streak btw...would have rather seen Duncan...guy has earned some playing time and should be above both Buck and Kearns on the shit list imho


Personally have no issue with splitting up the lefties. And also not a fan of setting a lineup based on what a guy did the day before. Yes, Chiz hit a HR yesterday.....but doesn't mean he needs to bat 6th. Peronally would have flipped-flopped Buck and Chiz but not something that's a huge deal imo. To each their own. Would have preferred to see laporta, chiz, oc, buck (6-9).


Same. Altho replace Buck with EZ Carrera and now you're talking. :s_thumbsup

Also, I'd like to see Santana at 3 and Hafner batting cleanup. Just a nitpick though...
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:38 pm

WOW!

NO HAFNER DIDNT!!!!!
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Edible14 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:39 pm

Jeeeeeeezzz

You think Hafner might have been looking for that pitch?
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby MadThinker88 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:45 pm

Edible14 wrote:Jeeeeeeezzz

You think Hafner might have been looking for that pitch?


Maybe he was looking for it. Regardless, he let the Toronto dugout know that the game was over before the bat hit the dirt - flashing just a little attitude.

Anyone think Hafner is going into the clubhouse and looking for Lonnie to say - 'that one's for you'
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:52 pm

I picked the wrong night to be stuck at work with a dead mp3 player/radio and my usb cable in the pocket of the pants I wore yesterday. :fool:

Pronk!!!
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:52 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:
Edible14 wrote:Jeeeeeeezzz

You think Hafner might have been looking for that pitch?


Maybe he was looking for it. Regardless, he let the Toronto dugout know that the game was over before the bat hit the dirt - flashing just a little attitude.

Anyone think Hafner is going into the clubhouse and looking for Lonnie to say - 'that one's for you'


Probably not, I don't know how close Hafner is with a rookie who's been here about a week. I AM curious what he yelled though if it was anything more than "yes!" I would say that he should watch himself in his first at-bat of tomorrow's game but then again they already started it by hitting Lonnie (even if it wasn't on purpose, which I doubt it was).
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:56 pm

Ho hum. Indians win 5-4 with 5 runs in the 9th and a walk off grand slam. Wake me when something interesting happens. :s_bored
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Bearcatbob » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:17 pm

Yahoo - wahoo!
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:28 pm

Party in the Wigwam tonight.. WHAT A BLAST !!

PRONK!!
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Prosecutor » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:42 pm

Walk off Granny!!!

Nice job by Buck with the leadoff single and then LaPorta with the double going the other way and Hanny coaxing the walk. ACab now 5-for-5 with the bases loaded, which set up the Pronk Slam.

Pronk usually takes a pitch but this time he crossed up the pitcher who tried to slip a fastball past him. Bad idea.

I almost shut it off thinking no way they score 4 runs in the 9th with the bottom of the order coming up, but for some reason I stayed with it. Very, very glad I did.

I know ACab is the team's MVP because he plays every day and is having a big year both at the plate and in the field, but Pronk is not far behind. I think the Tribe's record when he starts is something like 25-14. His presence in the lineup is huge.

By the way, great guest article in the PD this morning by a woman whose father took her to Tribe games as a child and she repaid the favor when he was dying.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:23 am

Terrible 8 innings.....great game :drinks:

Was I the only one that was actually kind of expecting Pronk to hit a HR there? Crazy finish
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:30 am

While I'm not a big fan of pointing out managerial mistakes when you win....kind of like a crash landing...if you walk away from it, it's a good one....if you win the game, who cares if you made a bad call....

BUT.....am I the only one that was wondering why Sipp was brought in to face Baustista there in the 9th? I mean, I know JB is killing both rigthies and lefties this year (though slightly better against lefties), but Smith faced 1 hitter int he 8th and got him....why not leave him in to face the righty Bautista? Sipp promptly gives up a HR....

Obviously Pronk (and AC) made sure that it didn't matter, but could have been a huge run.



Also....bit random, but I really wish they'd do something about the 'win rule'. The save rule gets most the attention, but I HATE how a guy like Sipp can come in and give up a run, yet he gets the win. Raffy, Durbin, Hermann, and Smith all go out there and put up 0's yet get nothing to show for it...not a hold, not a win, nothing. Sipp pitched the worse (arguably) in the game of any Tribe pitcher and gets the W. Just a random pet-peeve, but something I've always hated lol
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby osueddy » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:43 am

At was at the game, and that was amazing.

There weren't many people there to start with, and a lot of them left early. When Hafner hit the ball though, you would have thought the place was full as loud as it was. I had to sit next to some grumpy old man who may have been the most pessimistic person that I have ever met. All night long he complained how terrible we were and that all we do is strike out and so on. After Hafner's hit I really wanted to say something to him, but I respect my elders. Especially ones wearing a U.S.S. Enterprise hat.

Anyway, that's why baseball is fun. You can suck the whole game, but you never know how things will turn out.

Hermie, you thought on the win rule is interesting. I bet Luis Perez thinks that Francisco deserves the loss.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:16 am

osueddy wrote:I had to sit next to some grumpy old man who may have been the most pessimistic person that I have ever met. All night long he complained how terrible we were and that all we do is strike out and so on.


You must have met my father. :biggrin:
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby entertheshoe » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:35 am

Wins and losses for pitchers is a stupid stat, period.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby criznit2009 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:04 am

wonder if there is going to be any trouble with the rest of the series.... Brawl-wise that is...... With Hafners little "oh yeah take that" move after his awesome awesome awesome slam, would not be surprised at all if he gets a little chin music or more tomorrrow. Might be a circus, worth tuning in for sure.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:12 am

GoTribe028 wrote:
osueddy wrote:I had to sit next to some grumpy old man who may have been the most pessimistic person that I have ever met. All night long he complained how terrible we were and that all we do is strike out and so on.


You must have met my father. :biggrin:
If he was complaining about Asdrubal's defense, specifically, on balls hit to his right.. you were sitting next to Hermie... :lol:
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Chip Davis » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:31 am

quote] Same. Altho replace Buck with EZ Carrera and now you're talking. :s_thumbsup

Also, I'd like to see Santana at 3 and Hafner batting cleanup. Just a nitpick though...[/quote]

Are you referring to Travis Buck who has hit very well since coming off the DL. The same Travis Buck who was drafted in the 1st round because he is very talented. I don't understand your bashing of Buck, it makes no sense and I would like to hear your reasoning.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:34 am

Notes/Observations on Game One of this Series...

-Clutch hitting.. be that in the early innings or late was how the Indians were able to achieve their 15 games over .500 record after 45 games.. Pronk's turn last night.. WHAT A BLAST !!

-Perhaps Carlos Santana can learn something about PRONK's blast.. especially when he has a hitters count (2-0, 3-0, 3-1). Here comes the "ole automatic" fat fastball, right down the middle.. SWING AT IT !...

-While it may have been deemed unintentional.. the pitched that beaned Lonnie.. was the only one all night by Villanueva that was up and in like that..very odd... If not for having a rookie on the hill for the Indians.. there could have been an escalation.. The good news is Lonnie's injuries appear to be minor, facial contusion..

-Jack "Hoover" Hannahan had a blast (almost homer) and made two great plays at 3B.. If Hanny would only use that opposite field approach to hitting.. he'd never leave the field..

-Dana DeMuth's strike zone left a lot to be desired..he was inconsistent and spiteful.. Doug Eddings call at 3B on Grady's NON-SWING.. was a very poor call...

-Onto the Mitch Talbot Experience tonight.. With one more bad outing before the ASB.. does this make the Indians front office change the plan and bring up JeanMar?.. We shall see..
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Prosecutor » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:57 am

Onto the Mitch Talbot Experience tonight.. With one more bad outing before the ASB.. does this make the Indians front office change the plan and bring up JeanMar?.. We shall see..


As Pork Chop noted, Talbot's best start of the season was against the Blue Jays (wait a minute, what about his April start against the Angels?). And the Jays are short on quality left-handed hitting, so Mitch has a shot at putting up a Quality Start tonight.

Unfortunately, Jo-Jo Reyes kicked our butts last time he faced us so the Tribe hitters need to show up. Hopefully they'll have a better game plan now that they've seen him. He's been struggling lately so he might not be real sharp.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:09 am

Hermie13 wrote:While I'm not a big fan of pointing out managerial mistakes when you win....kind of like a crash landing...if you walk away from it, it's a good one....if you win the game, who cares if you made a bad call....

BUT.....am I the only one that was wondering why Sipp was brought in to face Baustista there in the 9th? I mean, I know JB is killing both rigthies and lefties this year (though slightly better against lefties), but Smith faced 1 hitter int he 8th and got him....why not leave him in to face the righty Bautista? Sipp promptly gives up a HR....

Obviously Pronk (and AC) made sure that it didn't matter, but could have been a huge run.



Also....bit random, but I really wish they'd do something about the 'win rule'. The save rule gets most the attention, but I HATE how a guy like Sipp can come in and give up a run, yet he gets the win. Raffy, Durbin, Hermann, and Smith all go out there and put up 0's yet get nothing to show for it...not a hold, not a win, nothing. Sipp pitched the worse (arguably) in the game of any Tribe pitcher and gets the W. Just a random pet-peeve, but something I've always hated lol
Sipp faced Thames, a Left Hander who was followed by Bautista (who hit the tape measure homer). Adam Lind the second left hander & Aaron Hill were retired in short order after the blast... So, starting the 9th with Sipp facing a left hander, wasn't a managerial mistake. ooops..

As far as the who gets credit for the W.. well, fantasy geeks get all worked up over that..but if the team gets the W, IRL, all is good... Unless there is a "better" way to credit a pitcher for the W, this is what it is... :s_dunno
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:15 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Sipp faced Thames, a Left Hander who was followed by Bautista (who hit the tape measure homer). Adam Lind the second left hander & Aaron Hill were retired in short order after the blast... So, starting the 9th with Sipp facing a left hander, wasn't a managerial mistake. ooops..

As far as the who gets credit for the W.. well, fantasy geeks get all worked up over that..but if the team gets the W, IRL, all is good... Unless there is a "better" way to credit a pitcher for the W, this is what it is... :s_dunno


ha, so I was the only one. I stand corrected (though Lind actually singled and Hill/Encarnacion were retired).

Starting to worry (even more) about Sipp. Since the 1st of June he's been pretty terrible. OPS against over .900 with 5 HRs and 50% of inherited runners scoring (and 4 SBs).
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Bearcatbob » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:26 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Notes/Observations on Game One of this Series...

-Clutch hitting.. be that in the early innings or late was how the Indians were able to achieve their 15 games over .500 record after 45 games.. Pronk's turn last night.. WHAT A BLAST !!

-Perhaps Carlos Santana can learn something about PRONK's blast.. especially when he has a hitters count (2-0, 3-0, 3-1). Here comes the "ole automatic" fat fastball, right down the middle.. SWING AT IT !...

-While it may have been deemed unintentional.. the pitched that beaned Lonnie.. was the only one all night by Villanueva that was up and in like that..very odd... If not for having a rookie on the hill for the Indians.. there could have been an escalation.. The good news is Lonnie's injuries appear to be minor, facial contusion..

-Jack "Hoover" Hannahan had a blast (almost homer) and made two great plays at 3B.. If Hanny would only use that opposite field approach to hitting.. he'd never leave the field..

-Dana DeMuth's strike zone left a lot to be desired..he was inconsistent and spiteful.. Doug Eddings call at 3B on Grady's NON-SWING.. was a very poor call...

-Onto the Mitch Talbot Experience tonight.. With one more bad outing before the ASB.. does this make the Indians front office change the plan and bring up JeanMar?.. We shall see..


What do you do with Talbot if he is replaced in the rotation. Sometime somewhere this season some team will be desperate for a starting pitcher. We could then make a trade. DFA simply seems impossible. Talbot as a relief pitcher seems unreasonable as well.

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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:43 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:
osueddy wrote:I had to sit next to some grumpy old man who may have been the most pessimistic person that I have ever met. All night long he complained how terrible we were and that all we do is strike out and so on.


You must have met my father. :biggrin:
If he was complaining about Asdrubal's defense, specifically, on balls hit to his right.. you were sitting next to Hermie... :lol:


ha, no but I was about to throw something at the TV when he booted the ball hit RIGHT AT HIM because he decided to Roger Dorn the ball :fool:

Terrible job by the official scorers giving that a hit. This is the MLs, I don't care how hard a ball is hit, if it's at you you have to field it.


And yeah, sorry that I don't buy into the Paul Hoynes/ESPN crap that AC is a great defensive SS (as it appears a number of people do).
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:53 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:-Jack "Hoover" Hannahan had a blast (almost homer) and made two great plays at 3B.. If Hanny would only use that opposite field approach to hitting.. he'd never leave the field..

-Dana DeMuth's strike zone left a lot to be desired..he was inconsistent and spiteful.. Doug Eddings call at 3B on Grady's NON-SWING.. was a very poor call...

-Onto the Mitch Talbot Experience tonight.. With one more bad outing before the ASB.. does this make the Indians front office change the plan and bring up JeanMar?.. We shall see..


Was a nice game by Hanny (though that 'almost homer' could have easily been an out too). Gets very little respect defensively. A reason why using web gems are worthless to judge talent defensively, that play Hanny made didn't even get a replay on ESPN let alone a web gem mention yet it was as good if not better than the plays AC made the day before. Hanny is definitely a keeper for his defense alone.

hmm, was it Grady's non-swing or AC's?

Personally think Talbot deserves a few more starts regardless. Only been 3 games where I'd say he lost it for us. I'd give him til August before I forced him out, but the Tribe could have less patience.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby entertheshoe » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:02 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:
osueddy wrote:I had to sit next to some grumpy old man who may have been the most pessimistic person that I have ever met. All night long he complained how terrible we were and that all we do is strike out and so on.


You must have met my father. :biggrin:
If he was complaining about Asdrubal's defense, specifically, on balls hit to his right.. you were sitting next to Hermie... :lol:


ha, no but I was about to throw something at the TV when he booted the ball hit RIGHT AT HIM because he decided to Roger Dorn the ball :fool:

Terrible job by the official scorers giving that a hit. This is the MLs, I don't care how hard a ball is hit, if it's at you you have to field it.


And yeah, sorry that I don't buy into the Paul Hoynes/ESPN crap that AC is a great defensive SS (as it appears a number of people do).


The simple fact that you're getting on Asdrubal on that ball that was clearly a hit shows that you have quite a bit of antibias. It wasn't a groundball like Roger Dorn, it was a rocket probably 105+ mph that bounced right in front of him. It was either charge it and catch it in the air or try for a web-gem like dig. There's no way you can think that was an error that makes about as much sense as giving Jose Bautista an error if he didn't throw out LaPorta in time.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Bearcatbob » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:16 pm

I simply cannot understand criticism of ACab. Lord - there are real issues to be concerned about. The guy plays on a sprained ankle and stars. The guy comes back last year with a broken arm.

Give me a break! Watch the emotion on his face. The guy is a WINNER!

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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby indianinkslinger » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:18 pm

entertheshoe wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:
osueddy wrote:I had to sit next to some grumpy old man who may have been the most pessimistic person that I have ever met. All night long he complained how terrible we were and that all we do is strike out and so on.


You must have met my father. :biggrin:
If he was complaining about Asdrubal's defense, specifically, on balls hit to his right.. you were sitting next to Hermie... :lol:


ha, no but I was about to throw something at the TV when he booted the ball hit RIGHT AT HIM because he decided to Roger Dorn the ball :fool:

Terrible job by the official scorers giving that a hit. This is the MLs, I don't care how hard a ball is hit, if it's at you you have to field it.


And yeah, sorry that I don't buy into the Paul Hoynes/ESPN crap that AC is a great defensive SS (as it appears a number of people do).


The simple fact that you're getting on Asdrubal on that ball that was clearly a hit shows that you have quite a bit of antibias. It wasn't a groundball like Roger Dorn, it was a rocket probably 105+ mph that bounced right in front of him. It was either charge it and catch it in the air or try for a web-gem like dig. There's no way you can think that was an error that makes about as much sense as giving Jose Bautista an error if he didn't throw out LaPorta in time.

You aren't going to change Hermie's opinion! He may not always be right but he is NEVER wrong and will post until the cows come home to prove it. He is a "hater" to quote his phrase and he hates AsCab and Brantley. And he will work to the death to find some off the wall, inconsequential statistic to support his position. Just like iron, it is better to ignore the prejudice. I know I do except when I want to amuse myself by setting off one of his tirades. Apologies to the show for being a hypocrit. :pleasantry:
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby entertheshoe » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:19 pm

Chip Davis wrote:Are you referring to Travis Buck who has hit very well since coming off the DL. The same Travis Buck who was drafted in the 1st round because he is very talented. I don't understand your bashing of Buck, it makes no sense and I would like to hear your reasoning.


Where did I bash Travis Buck? All I said was that he looks completely lost out there - which he did last night until Francisco gave him a nice meatball over the middle in the 9th. First at bat he took two fast balls then struckout on a slider. 2nd at bat he struck out swinging at another slider. Third at bat he had a 2nd pitch lazy flyout. Then I posted that he looked lost.

Buck being a 1st rounder has nothing to do with anything. David Huff was a 1st rounder, so was Jeremy Sowers. Still, while we're on the topic of Buck, I do honestly prefer Ez Carrera, especially at the 9 hole (it would be like having another leadoff hitter). The only problem is Ez doesn't really have the arm to play right field, although it's not like Buck has a cannon. Even though Buck has a career high 5 game hit streak, in the long run I see more benefit from giving Carrera playing time.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby smt1192 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:53 pm

I loved Hafner's reaction to the home run, I just hope that it didn't come off as cocky, he was just really pumped up. We don't need him getting thrown at as well.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby criznit2009 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:27 pm

smt1192 wrote:I loved Hafner's reaction to the home run, I just hope that it didn't come off as cocky, he was just really pumped up. We don't need him getting thrown at as well.


it looked pretty cocky to me.... At first I thought he pulled a monster foul and he was pissed, then I saw.... There could be fireworks tonight. If anyone even looks like they are showboating tonight even if they are not look out. Could get ugly, I am expecting it and will be surprised if the benches don't clear between now and the end of the series.

That 1st high inside pitch is gonna be interesting.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby ChadS17 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:14 pm

criznit2009 wrote:
smt1192 wrote:I loved Hafner's reaction to the home run, I just hope that it didn't come off as cocky, he was just really pumped up. We don't need him getting thrown at as well.


it looked pretty cocky to me.... At first I thought he pulled a monster foul and he was pissed, then I saw.... There could be fireworks tonight. If anyone even looks like they are showboating tonight even if they are not look out. Could get ugly, I am expecting it and will be surprised if the benches don't clear between now and the end of the series.

That 1st high inside pitch is gonna be interesting.


Come on, walk-off grand slam and scoring 5 runs in the 9th, what do you want him to do? Put his head down and show no emotion? They have no history with the Blue Jays since '07 I believe. Would be different if it was in division, but I don't see anything happening tonight.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:35 pm

PRONK could have done cart wheels around the bases.. it's still a walk off GRAND SLAM .. cocky.. sure.. anyone who wants to stop him?..throw a ball that he doesn't hit over 400 feet..
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby criznit2009 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:47 pm

Celebrating is not really the issue, it was that he was still in the batters box.... Thats what pisses off pitchers. Perhaps I am jumping the gun a bit, but this game definitely will have some simmering tension. Talbot doesn't strike me as the type to start trouble but all it takes is one pitch intentional or not.
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Re: Blue Jays at Indians, July 7, 8, 9 & 10

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:00 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:I simply cannot understand criticism of ACab. Lord - there are real issues to be concerned about. The guy plays on a sprained ankle and stars. The guy comes back last year with a broken arm.

Give me a break! Watch the emotion on his face. The guy is a WINNER!

Bob


Is Cabrera our best position player this year? Yes. Has he improved? Yes. Am I glad we have him? Absolutely.

But he's not a defensive wizard, sorry.
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