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Sizemore's 2012 option

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Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby jrotonda23 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:10 pm

I was wondering what people's opinion on Grady's 2012 option be. Before the season I was pretty confident that the 2012 9mil option would be picked up. After watching the 1st half of the season play out I'm not sure anymore. With the need to add a RH bat to the lineup and Brantley being the CF of the future I think it makes quite a bit of sense to let Grady walk, since it would open up a corner OF spot to add a bat via FA/Trade. Letting Grady walk clearly would not be a popular move with the fan base, but I'm not sure how much this matters.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:35 pm

Pick it up then trade him
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:45 pm

Lloyd Christmas wrote:Pick it up then trade him


This would be ideal...but he needs to get his numbers up first. Still a long ways to go though.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby jrotonda23 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:48 pm

Yea I was thinking of a trade as well, but Grady's trade value has to be at an all time low right now. I really have no idea what type of return you could expect for him.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby Edible14 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:01 pm

They won't decline it. I think they're still looking at his performance to date thinking that he's hurt and that he'll get back to his old self. It would be a PR nightmare if he regains form elsewhere.

The other problem is that there's nobody ready to replace him. Everyone at AAA is a 4th OF at best and I think there's significant doubt as to what they can get on the FA market (at best you're getting a Mark DeRosa type with what the Indians can/will spend). Weglarz, if he can get healthy, would be the best case scenario if you let Grady walk.

The thing is, 2012 might be the Tribe's best shot at contention. After that year, you'll have tough decisions to make on Choo and ACab arbitration-wise, you'll have Hafner's contract expiring, and a lot of key players will start getting to arbitration. Unless you think that the team has a better option, and right now there's reason to doubt that, Grady shouldn't be going anywhere.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby Tondo » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:55 pm

Let's see...over the last 3 years his speed has pretty much evaporated (injuries mostly), his on base skills have gone south too as his walk-rate , once phenomenal, is at best AVG now..also, his he got significantly worse against LHP, even in his last good season (2008 that is)...all that is really left right now is decent, above AVG power vs RHP....sadly, that's really what Grady has become

That said, I would NOT pick up the option (dont think he's tradeable)...he simply isn't worth it...9mil is a lot of money, spend it better
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby hoof32 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:14 pm

I don't know what's up with his swing, I'd really like to see him slash hits all over the field.

Pretty sure Grady would feel the same.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby GhostofTedCox » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:25 pm

IMO Sizemore is not a player you can count on anymore. Injuries come way too frequently and he sure isn't a contact hitter. I don't think you can pick up that option. I would rather allocate those funds in other places.

Clubs will call around the trade deadline trying to catch lightning in a bottle.
I would pick up the phone and I wouldn't be too picky.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby jellis » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:41 pm

my only concern with no picking him up is that it always takes 2 years to fully recover from micro fracture surgery, which could explain his struggles
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby criznit2009 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:30 am

jellis wrote:my only concern with no picking him up is that it always takes 2 years to fully recover from micro fracture surgery, which could explain his struggles


He was struggling pretty bad before his micro surgery though, it was a small sample size i admit.....

Starting to wonder, and please correct me if I am wrong... If the tribe does not pick up Carmona and Sizemore's option that is a savings of about 16 million right??? If thats the case, I think we could easily sign 2 (and likely more) free-agents for less than that and they would be complete upgrades over both these guys.... Seems to me 16mil would go along way to getting an excellent vet or 3 in here to go along with the young guys.... Sure it is risky, but come the end of the season and if these 2 guys haven't rebounded/improved I don't see how you could keep them knowing 16 million dollars could definitely improve your team as opposed to possibly.....
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby smt1192 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:38 am

criznit2009 wrote:
jellis wrote:my only concern with no picking him up is that it always takes 2 years to fully recover from micro fracture surgery, which could explain his struggles


He was struggling pretty bad before his micro surgery though, it was a small sample size i admit.....

Starting to wonder, and please correct me if I am wrong... If the tribe does not pick up Carmona and Sizemore's option that is a savings of about 16 million right??? If thats the case, I think we could easily sign 2 (and likely more) free-agents for less than that and they would be complete upgrades over both these guys.... Seems to me 16mil would go along way to getting an excellent vet or 3 in here to go along with the young guys.... Sure it is risky, but come the end of the season and if these 2 guys haven't rebounded/improved I don't see how you could keep them knowing 16 million dollars could definitely improve your team as opposed to possibly.....


Heck you could sign 5 first round draft picks with 16 million
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:59 am

I thought it was a no brainer that Sizemore's 2012 option would be picked up....but no more. he continues this freefall this year and you are now at three years running of below average to poor play. No way can this org with the money problems it has pick up that option for a guy next year who possibly can't stay on the field or be productive. May seem them decline it is basing it on current results/health.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby GhostofTedCox » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:43 am

If we don't pick up the option, and he signs elsewhere, would we be awarded a compensation draft pick?

Actually, unless he improves he may only get a minor league contract with a spring training invite.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby ironmike » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:55 am

Interesting comments made by Bobby Valentine regarding Sizemore. Agree with his observation, much, not all, I've been posting the past four years on various forums. Truthfully, it all goes back to a lack of good coaching.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:03 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:If we don't pick up the option, and he signs elsewhere, would we be awarded a compensation draft pick?

Actually, unless he improves he may only get a minor league contract with a spring training invite.


We'd have to offer him arbitration first off.....but as of now, he's not even a Type B


Some team will give him a ML offer. He showed earlier this year he still has pop. He'll probably get a $5M deal elsewhere if not more on the open market.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby criznit2009 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:10 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
GhostofTedCox wrote:If we don't pick up the option, and he signs elsewhere, would we be awarded a compensation draft pick?

Actually, unless he improves he may only get a minor league contract with a spring training invite.


We'd have to offer him arbitration first off.....but as of now, he's not even a Type B


Some team will give him a ML offer. He showed earlier this year he still has pop. He'll probably get a $5M deal elsewhere if not more on the open market.


If he continues on his current trajectory... No way does he sniff 5 million..... maybe 3.5 million if he hits most if not all the incentives that would be poured into that contract.... He K's too much, doesn't walk enough, seemingly can steal bases anymore, has always been streaky but now that his zenith has been lowered so much, he is way less attractive now. He could still rebound, I will wait until after the break before I make my own pointless decision.....

Given performance/injury history..... If a team gives him 5 mil - they deserve exactly what they get....
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:10 pm

criznit2009 wrote:
jellis wrote:my only concern with no picking him up is that it always takes 2 years to fully recover from micro fracture surgery, which could explain his struggles


He was struggling pretty bad before his micro surgery though, it was a small sample size i admit.....



While that's true in 2010 (then again he was by all reports hurt the whole time), Grady did have an OPS over .800 in the second half of the 2009 season despite being injured (so not sure how we're going on 3 years of bad performances).

$8.5M in savings would be nice (has a buyout)...but the upside of a healthy Grady is worth that. The 2nd half of this season is going to be HUGE for Grady.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby entertheshoe » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:09 pm

Do people realize that Jayson Werth signed a 126 million dollar contract and is 3 years older than Grady? Obviously it's not a great comparison because of Grady's injury history, but if a team will drastically overpay for a guy like Werth who has never batted over .300, how can you not think that someone is willing to give Grady a chance?

Players go through peaks and troughs all season. Right now is too short of a timespan to really judge if Grady is bad or is just struggling. Let's wait until the season is over until we make a judgement. It's not like we have a stud prospect who he's holding back or anything.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby GhostofTedCox » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:52 pm

entertheshoe wrote:Do people realize that Jayson Werth signed a 126 million dollar contract and is 3 years older than Grady? Obviously it's not a great comparison because of Grady's injury history, but if a team will drastically overpay for a guy like Werth who has never batted over .300, how can you not think that someone is willing to give Grady a chance?

Players go through peaks and troughs all season. Right now is too short of a timespan to really judge if Grady is bad or is just struggling. Let's wait until the season is over until we make a judgement. It's not like we have a stud prospect who he's holding back or anything.


In the last 3 years Werth has played a ton of games and his OPS was around .900. Sizemore - not so much, and hasn't even had a batting average over .280 since 2006. His option is $9 million. He will be lucky to sniff one third of that, unless he starts playing ball.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby danh8 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:37 pm

No way I brng back either Grady or Fausto. Use the money elsewhere.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby ironmike » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:29 pm

Agree on the two year recovery time, plus Sizemore is more than likely pressing. Many of thought Hafner was done, but he proved us wrong.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby danh8 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:32 pm

The two year rule isn't usually applied to micro-fracture surgeries. I've heard it used with TJ, and ACL surgeries, though. Micro-fracture is a very inexact, and last ditch effort type procedure to try and buffer a knee joint with no catilage left to buffer a bone on bone joint. Most players don't have a second year after attempting to play after this procedure, that is seen with many football players. The Brown's Courtney Brown had the procedure, tried playing one year then retired. It's a very very experimental type procedure that uses scar tissue from drilling holes in the back of the knee cap, having it bleed into the joint and then using that scar tissue as a natural buffer ...Grady might not have that much time left in the league, quite frankly.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby MadThinker88 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:53 pm

danh8 wrote:No way I brng back either Grady or Fausto. Use the money elsewhere.


Please define 'use the money elsewhere'. I'm not looking to argue your point (I think you present a valid option, just not one I would pick).

If the Tribe cut loose both players they have some internal options for those slots but I do not think the money will be enough to attract a free agent (that could make a difference in an area of weakness) or be enough to lock up more of the younger players. I believe the Tribe already has that money budgeted for those they want to make offers too (by looking at the salary chart). While having more money will enable more players to be offered contracts, I think the Tribe will want some more data/ performance examples before looking to lock up the 2011 rookie group (Alex White, Chis, etc).
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby theshow » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:12 pm

You have to bring Sizemore back at that price. It is a no brainer. Some team will offer him that in free agency. People forget how much guys get overpaid for, and every in MLB knows what Sizemore can do when healthy and that he is still young.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby InsaneJedi » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:15 pm

If the Tribe uses the money saved by not signing both Sizemore and Carmona to give arbitration raises to Choo (~ 3M raise, I'd think) and Chris Perez (~ 2M raise) while buying out at least two free agent years each from Cabrera and Masterson, I will be a happy man. :biggrin:
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:43 pm

Not sure Choo will be up for much of a raise based on his numbers. Not saying he isn't worth more but the poor numbers and down time will hurt his arb case IMO.

Personally I wouldn't pick up Sizemore's option just not playing well enough and too expensive... Hopefully he turns things around.

Carmona is another story, his ineffectiveness isn't a result of injury but rather his inability to maintain mental composure during games. Carmona is worth the gamble, he was an AllStar last yr and could still turn things around his last start v. SF wasn't bad, not great but better. At worse case picking up Carmona's option and later selling low if he (and Belcher) can't get it together.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby indians1 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:23 am

what exactly did valentine say about the lack of coaching he has received?

It doesn't take a genius to see that sizemore has not really adjusted his game over the years. From a guy that guys like shapiro and gammons called the greatest or one of the greatest players of his generation to this shows how overhyped he was.

Injuries have played a huge role in his decline, but i think technique work and playing with better efficiency go along way to preserving health and maintaining a high level of performance.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby indianinkslinger » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:39 am

I am not sure this is the right time to make this decision. Sizemore is an Indian legend and should be kept active for another 30 days in hopes he can return to some semblance of his former form. He should be able to move down in the batting order when Pronk can play in the AL and LaPorta returns which should take some pressure off. It isn't like there is a great deal of choice but to keep him in the linep until the Indians decide to go "small ball and defense" and bring up Zeke Carrera. I think that much of Sizemore's fate may well be decided by the continued progress of Nick Weglarz who rehab from nearly a year off is going very well IMO. He could be promoted to Columbus soon and could become an option given the lack of talent in the Indians OF. I guess I would hold off on any plan to exercise the option until I have a better picture of our alternatives for 2011/2012.
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:42 am

indianinkslinger wrote:I am not sure this is the right time to make this decision. Sizemore is an Indian legend and should be kept active for another 30 days in hopes he can return to some semblance of his former form. He should be able to move down in the batting order when Pronk can play in the AL and LaPorta returns which should take some pressure off. It isn't like there is a great deal of choice but to keep him in the linep until the Indians decide to go "small ball and defense" and bring up Zeke Carrera. I think that much of Sizemore's fate may well be decided by the continued progress of Nick Weglarz who rehab from nearly a year off is going very well IMO. He could be promoted to Columbus soon and could become an option given the lack of talent in the Indians OF. I guess I would hold off on any plan to exercise the option until I have a better picture of our alternatives for 2011/2012.
Unless some team's GM loses his mind and has to have Grady with his option picked up.. there is no rush to exercise the option. The most important "next step" for Grady is to keep playing. He may be lost at the plate right now, but only in game action does he have a chance to regain his 'batters eye'. Perhaps moving him to the 9th spot in the order would be a good thing right now. This would eliminate the 'must produce runs' stigma while providing a rounding to the top of the order guy in the 9th hole.. If you want your best hitters to bat at the top of the lineup to assure more AB's.. then Grady doesn't belong there right now...

Regarding Zeke Carrerea, I'm sure that if given 100 AB's, Zeke would be able to score more than 10 runs and certainly get more than 2 RBI's. Carrera offers the ability to pinch run, steal a bag, play good CF defense, handle the bat with moving runners (bunt) etc. All the 'intangibles' you might want from a backup/bench player. I.D.K. why Kearns is still on this roster.. w/r: Weglarz has about 15 games worth of action now. I don't think he's even unpacked his bags yet.. so, he's not really a candidate for promotion at this time. Give him at least 100 AB's before making a move..or better yet, let him earn a promotion to Columbus... If you were to project what would be the best case scenario for Wegz.. it would be earning a cup of coffee in September, be that from performance in AA Akron or AAA Columbus..
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby indianinkslinger » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:50 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:I am not sure this is the right time to make this decision. Sizemore is an Indian legend and should be kept active for another 30 days in hopes he can return to some semblance of his former form. He should be able to move down in the batting order when Pronk can play in the AL and LaPorta returns which should take some pressure off. It isn't like there is a great deal of choice but to keep him in the linep until the Indians decide to go "small ball and defense" and bring up Zeke Carrera. I think that much of Sizemore's fate may well be decided by the continued progress of Nick Weglarz who rehab from nearly a year off is going very well IMO. He could be promoted to Columbus soon and could become an option given the lack of talent in the Indians OF. I guess I would hold off on any plan to exercise the option until I have a better picture of our alternatives for 2011/2012.
Unless some team's GM loses his mind and has to have Grady with his option picked up.. there is no rush to exercise the option. The most important "next step" for Grady is to keep playing. He may be lost at the plate right now, but only in game action does he have a chance to regain his 'batters eye'. Perhaps moving him to the 9th spot in the order would be a good thing right now. This would eliminate the 'must produce runs' stigma while providing a rounding to the top of the order guy in the 9th hole.. If you want your best hitters to bat at the top of the lineup to assure more AB's.. then Grady doesn't belong there right now...
Sounds likie we agree here. If we see Wegalrz before September, Grady's option is very unlikely to be exercised IMO. :pleasantry:
Regarding Zeke Carrerea, I'm sure that if given 100 AB's, Zeke would be able to score more than 10 runs and certainly get more than 2 RBI's. Carrera offers the ability to pinch run, steal a bag, play good CF defense, handle the bat with moving runners (bunt) etc. All the 'intangibles' you might want from a backup/bench player. I.D.K. why Kearns is still on this roster.. w/r: Weglarz has about 15 games worth of action now. I don't think he's even unpacked his bags yet.. so, he's not really a candidate for promotion at this time. Give him at least 100 AB's before making a move..or better yet, let him earn a promotion to Columbus... If you were to project what would be the best case scenario for Wegz.. it would be earning a cup of coffee in September, be that from performance in AA Akron or AAA Columbus..
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:42 pm

indianinkslinger wrote: If we see Wegalrz before September, Grady's option is very unlikely to be exercised IMO. :pleasantry:


hmm....don't really see how Wegz being promoted before September has anything to do with Grady's option. Grady's option being exercised is 100% up to how Grady plays the rest of the way IMO.

Now....I could maybe see Wegz factoring into whether Grady is in a Tribe uni in 2012 (if that's what you meant?)
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby indianinkslinger » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:47 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote: If we see Wegalrz before September, Grady's option is very unlikely to be exercised IMO. :pleasantry:


hmm....don't really see how Wegz being promoted before September has anything to do with Grady's option. Grady's option being exercised is 100% up to how Grady plays the rest of the way IMO.

Now....I could maybe see Wegz factoring into whether Grady is in a Tribe uni in 2012 (if that's what you meant?)

See, if you think about it, sometimes the answer will just come to you. After all, the option is for 2012. Good work, Hermie. :pleasantry:
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:59 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote: If we see Wegalrz before September, Grady's option is very unlikely to be exercised IMO. :pleasantry:


hmm....don't really see how Wegz being promoted before September has anything to do with Grady's option. Grady's option being exercised is 100% up to how Grady plays the rest of the way IMO.

Now....I could maybe see Wegz factoring into whether Grady is in a Tribe uni in 2012 (if that's what you meant?)

See, if you think about it, sometimes the answer will just come to you. After all, the option is for 2012. Good work, Hermie. :pleasantry:


Why am I not surprised that this would go over your head? ugh. You can PICK UP the option, and Grady still may not play for the Tribe. There's this thing in sports called a 'trade' :pleasantry: Good work ink

Grady's option comes down to how Grady plays. If he's playing well he can easily be traded (or kept). If he's playing like he has been then it may not be picked up. When Wegz comes up should have nothing to do with whether his option gets picked up (and I highly doubt it actually does as the Tribe FO is smarter than that).
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Re: Sizemore's 2012 option

Postby ironmike » Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:31 am

Sizemore's option will be picked up.
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