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Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

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Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby ironmike » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:50 am

Ken Rosenthal mentions the Giants need a catcher and SS and states Ocab is expendable. The Giants also had an interest in Ocab last off season prior to signing with the Indians. Not sure what value he might have, but he makes room for a young player like Kipnis or the return of Valbeuna.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:13 pm

ironmike wrote:Ken Rosenthal mentions the Giants need a catcher and SS and states Ocab is expendable. The Giants also had an interest in Ocab last off season prior to signing with the Indians. Not sure what value he might have, but he makes room for a young player like Kipnis or the return of Valbeuna.

No real objection to letting OCab go for what would likely be next to nothing. But we don't need to do that to bring up Valbuena or anybody else. Several players on the active roster have even less value to the Indians than OCab.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby hoof32 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:19 pm

I'd do it for six dozen balls and a bucket o' rubbing mud.

Phelps, Donald, Kipnis, and Valbuena are all potentially an upgrade to OCab.

That said, I think he'll be here the whole season.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby entertheshoe » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:31 pm

I wonder if combining O Cabrera and Lou Marson could get us someone like RF Thomas Neal. He's ranked as their 7th best prospect according to MLB.com and is 23 years old (turns 24 in August) yet still in AAA. Nothing spectacular but he has good size, is a right handed bat who hits lefties well (333/390/426). Giants ML OFers as it is are R Pat Burrell (free agent 2012), R Cody Ross, R Aaron Rowand (extremely overpaid but is in their books until 2013), and S Andres Torres, not to mention their highest prospect Brandon Belt plays both OF and 1B. So there might not be room for Neal, making him expendable.

Probably will never happen but hey it's fun thinking about.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby ChadS17 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:35 pm

entertheshoe wrote:I wonder if combining O Cabrera and Lou Marson could get us someone like RF Thomas Neal. He's ranked as their 7th best prospect according to MLB.com and is 23 years old (turns 24 in August) yet still in AAA. Nothing spectacular but he has good size, is a right handed bat who hits lefties well (333/390/426). Giants ML OFers as it is are R Pat Burrell (free agent 2012), R Cody Ross, R Aaron Rowand (extremely overpaid but is in their books until 2013), and S Andres Torres, not to mention their highest prospect Brandon Belt plays both OF and 1B. So there might not be room for Neal, making him expendable.

Probably will never happen but hey it's fun thinking about.


Marson isn't any kind of upgrade over what they already have, at least offensively, and certainly wouldn't be in their long-term plans to start. I'd think they're looking for more of a veteran catcher. Off the top of my head, Buck in Florida.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby ChadS17 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:38 pm

As far as OCab, say what you will about his veteran leadership, whatever, if he's going to step into a contending team and be their starting shortstop, good luck to them. He's a bench guy for us, and is a bench guy for any contender. And I'm starting to wonder about how much of a "good guy" he is in the clubhouse, with recent reports of him not being happy and crying when Phelps came up.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby ChadS17 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:43 pm

ChadS17 wrote:
entertheshoe wrote:I wonder if combining O Cabrera and Lou Marson could get us someone like RF Thomas Neal. He's ranked as their 7th best prospect according to MLB.com and is 23 years old (turns 24 in August) yet still in AAA. Nothing spectacular but he has good size, is a right handed bat who hits lefties well (333/390/426). Giants ML OFers as it is are R Pat Burrell (free agent 2012), R Cody Ross, R Aaron Rowand (extremely overpaid but is in their books until 2013), and S Andres Torres, not to mention their highest prospect Brandon Belt plays both OF and 1B. So there might not be room for Neal, making him expendable.

Probably will never happen but hey it's fun thinking about.


Marson isn't any kind of upgrade over what they already have, at least offensively, and certainly wouldn't be in their long-term plans to start. I'd think they're looking for more of a veteran catcher. Off the top of my head, Buck in Florida.


Didn't realize he's down there three years. Cross him off.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:35 pm

entertheshoe wrote:I wonder if combining O Cabrera and Lou Marson could get us someone like RF Thomas Neal. He's ranked as their 7th best prospect according to MLB.com and is 23 years old (turns 24 in August) yet still in AAA. Nothing spectacular but he has good size, is a right handed bat who hits lefties well (333/390/426). Giants ML OFers as it is are R Pat Burrell (free agent 2012), R Cody Ross, R Aaron Rowand (extremely overpaid but is in their books until 2013), and S Andres Torres, not to mention their highest prospect Brandon Belt plays both OF and 1B. So there might not be room for Neal, making him expendable.

Probably will never happen but hey it's fun thinking about.
FWIW, Marson and Carrasco have become quite a formidible battery. While Marson may never hit for power or high average..he will control, or, at least, command some respect in the running game.. and he calls a damn fine game with Car-Car on the hill.. I wouldn't break that up without a much better reason than a AAA prospect that has favorable BAA-lefty splits...
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby hoof32 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:12 pm

ChadS17 wrote:As far as OCab, say what you will about his veteran leadership, whatever, if he's going to step into a contending team and be their starting shortstop, good luck to them. He's a bench guy for us, and is a bench guy for any contender. And I'm starting to wonder about how much of a "good guy" he is in the clubhouse, with recent reports of him not being happy and crying when Phelps came up.


I heard OCab's pre-game interview last week, he seemed unsure about everything, and his underlying attitude seemed to be along the lines of "the Cleveland Indians LIED to me.' It was vaguely sickening.

'Suck it up, buddy. We need more than your measly .581 OPS and mediocre glovework. Step your game up or step aside.'

OCab should be on the bubble, ala Jensen Lewis: 'Boom -- outta here.'
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby ChadS17 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:20 pm

hoof32 wrote:
ChadS17 wrote:As far as OCab, say what you will about his veteran leadership, whatever, if he's going to step into a contending team and be their starting shortstop, good luck to them. He's a bench guy for us, and is a bench guy for any contender. And I'm starting to wonder about how much of a "good guy" he is in the clubhouse, with recent reports of him not being happy and crying when Phelps came up.


I heard OCab's pre-game interview last week, he seemed unsure about everything, and his underlying attitude seemed to be along the lines of "the Cleveland Indians LIED to me.' It was vaguely sickening.

'Suck it up, buddy. We need more than your measly .581 OPS and mediocre glovework. Step your game up or step aside.'

OCab should be on the bubble, ala Jensen Lewis: 'Boom -- outta here.'


As I recall, he was not guaranteed a starting spot when he was signed. He won the job but has been pretty bad since. A guy that has been around as long as he has shouldn't even be questioning the decision to bring Phelps up to himself, let alone the public.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:02 am

I would be happy if the Giants simply take Cabrera and give us nothing back. Good riddance.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby indians1 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:12 am

We need to do whatever we can to upgrade the offense.

We cannot have a lineup that includes shelley duncun, adam everett, and or travis buck. We need to call up valbuena and see if he has figured out major league pitching.

we need to see if jason kipnis is ready for the majors. I question all those that say how bad kipnis is defensively. It seems like he is getting better and it is not like you can't work with him while he is up in cleveland. He is a major league ready bat that is getting wasted in AAA.

Put kipnis at 2B, make phelps and valbuena the utility guys.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Tondo » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:57 am

OCab has no power, no OBP skills, often plays uninspired D...he has the "vet-leadership" argument on his side (4 PO appearances last 4 seasons)....I'd trade his .600 OPS for another Barnes in a heartbeat...we got Barnes for Garko from SF...so yeah, I'd trade OCab to whoever seems some obscure value in him for any C-prospect with an ounce of upside left
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby daingean » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:16 am

Tondo wrote:OCab has no power, no OBP skills, often plays uninspired D...he has the "vet-leadership" argument on his side (4 PO appearances last 4 seasons)....I'd trade his .600 OPS for another Barnes in a heartbeat...we got Barnes for Garko from SF...so yeah, I'd trade OCab to whoever seems some obscure value in him for any C-prospect with an ounce of upside left


I agree. MIF bench guys are our deepest position right now (Valbuena, Donald, Kipnis...). But I'd like to get a RH OF in return that could fill in for us until Choo returns.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:48 am

TonyIPI wrote:I would be happy if the Giants simply take Cabrera and give us nothing back. Good riddance.

+1
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby jellis » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:14 am

If we have any chance at of any value its SF, but I would expect a guy in their 15-25 prospect range at best, more than likely we get what we got for Laffey
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby daingean » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:31 am

jellis wrote:If we have any chance at of any value its SF, but I would expect a guy in their 15-25 prospect range at best, more than likely we get what we got for Laffey


Hopefully we can get a RH OF that is at least an up over Kearns/Duncan. I don't see one on the Giant's roster (Burrell and Rowland are too overpriced). But maybe a 3 team transaction could be created (maybe with the Mets for a Pagan or a Fernando Martinez) - true OCab isn't going to return much but a Buck/Pagan platoon in RF until Choo gets back could be useful.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:38 pm

There comes point in time when the front office has to take a step back and say it's time to do something.. we just can't continue to slowly die on the vine..

Is that time now?.. IDK.. but it's moving in that direction..

For the briefest of moments this year.. the Indians had Hafner, Choo and Santana in the lineup.. and they looked like they could become a formidable heart of the order.. but alas.. Choo breaks his thumb and Hafner runs head first into the Inter league schedule..

In a week, IL play will be over, leaving two thirds of the "heart of the order".. The Indians have now surrendered their hold on first place, which they've held for 77 days.. Time to take a chance..

In order: Valbuena (SS/3B/2B/LF), Head (RF), Carrera (CF) & Kipnis (2B)... While it would appear that Valbuena would not be a "perfect fit" for the Indians needs (RH), hitting is hitting...his lefty/righty splits aren't horrible (V RHP .331/.387/.548; v LHP .288/.366/.466), he is hitting the ball with authority and making good contact as evidenced by his recent ten games. His hard work may pay off with a promotion.. sooner the better...
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Edible14 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:25 pm

indians1 wrote:we need to see if jason kipnis is ready for the majors. I question all those that say how bad kipnis is defensively. It seems like he is getting better and it is not like you can't work with him while he is up in cleveland. He is a major league ready bat that is getting wasted in AAA.

Put kipnis at 2B, make phelps and valbuena the utility guys.


Spoiler alert, he's not.

Nearly everyone has said that Phelps was the more advanced fielder... and Phelps' D is below-average in the bigs. Hell, his glove lost us game 2 against the Giants. Acta has been using OCab as a defensive replacement... think about that. Kipnis' glove would likely be a liability in Cleveland, which we really don't need when all of our pitchers are ground ball types.

He's not hitting any better than Head or Valbuena... guys that we KNOW are AAAA guys at best. Nor is he hitting better than Donald, who is the guy who should be promoted before him. So while his bat is GOOD, it's not GREAT, and he would probably struggle at the big league level for at least a little while.

There's no reason to call up Kipnis right now. There are better options ahead of him (for now), and he could use the development time.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby indians1 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:05 pm

I think valbuena should be called up but to say that kipnis isn't major league ready is crazy. Chisenhall has more errors than kipnis, yet if he was hitting better people would be calling for him to be up in the majors.

Kipnis is my most accounts the best hitting prospect in the indians farm system. It was either him or chisenhall at the beginning of the season and we now know who is the best.

Get kipnis up now. ESPN has been saying he should be called up and is more of a sure thing to stick at 2B than dustin Ackley from Seattle.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby entertheshoe » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:22 pm

I think you're both wrong. Kipnis is ready for the bigs, but he should not be promoted yet. Cord Phelps is also a priority prospect and you can't just demote him to playing once every 5 days and pinch running. Each of them needs steady playing time and both can't get it at the same time. Kipnis meanwhile should stay in AAA and improve his defense while Cord Phelps gets time in the majors. While Kipnis is a priority prospect, there's no need to ruin Cord's development.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby hoof32 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:30 pm

...and the tribe brass may call up Kipnis... Valbuena... McCallister... Gomez... Putnam.

The FO has to be having daily conferences, video review sesh's, scouting reports, crunching the numbers through their new Cray Jaguar DiamondVision desktop.

One question they need to have answered at every level, is "Who is the most likely to be able to make an impact at the major league level."

The call-ups of Phelps and Chisenhall are telling. These are those players.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Tondo » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:45 pm

hoof32 wrote:The call-ups of Phelps and Chisenhall are telling. These are those players.


Yeah, his game losing error in the 9th must have been the kicker...or his yearly unimpressive (for a "priority" spec) .800 OPS...or just the hype and FO ego pissing...Im going with the letter...there's no comp, Kipnis crashed Chiz pretty much evrywhere...Chis is only up before him because of position, NOT because he's better

Valbuena most probably has the AAAA tag with the FO and I understand as he crushed AAA pitching last year too and got over 250 ABs at the MLB level and disappointed...he's probably just a depth option and well behind Donald/Kipnis/Carrera, but considering the crappy, no future at all vet-alternatives we have, I'd still give him 1 last shot at it...we have so much dead weight at the ML level to get him some ABs in to find out
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Edible14 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:22 pm

Tondo wrote:Yeah, his game losing error in the 9th must have been the kicker...or his yearly unimpressive (for a "priority" spec) .800 OPS...or just the hype and FO ego pissing...Im going with the letter...there's no comp, Kipnis crashed Chiz pretty much evrywhere...Chis is only up before him because of position, NOT because he's better


This. I'll be honest, I'm not 100% behind the Chiz call-up, but I see how it makes sense given the alternatives (playing Hannahan or playing a 2B out of position). There's too many quality guys ahead of Kipnis to rush a guy who's still learning the position and is in only his 2nd full season. Phelps still needs time to adjust before you can argue he's gotten a fair shot. Donald really didn't do anything to lose his position except get hurt. Valbuena is hitting better than Kipnis and even though I'm not super-excited about him, there's still potential for him to be a contributor to this team.

Kipnis would be splitting ABs right now at the bigs. He needs to be hitting everyday. Chiz at least can be playing everyday (or close to it) in Cleveland. Kipnis wouldn't be. It makes the most sense to keep him down for the year.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby jellis » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:44 pm

indians1 wrote:I think valbuena should be called up but to say that kipnis isn't major league ready is crazy. Chisenhall has more errors than kipnis, yet if he was hitting better people would be calling for him to be up in the majors.

Kipnis is my most accounts the best hitting prospect in the indians farm system. It was either him or chisenhall at the beginning of the season and we now know who is the best.

Get kipnis up now. ESPN has been saying he should be called up and is more of a sure thing to stick at 2B than dustin Ackley from Seattle.


Never seen them say anything like that, every writer on there when I asked put Ackley well ahead of Kipnis
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby entertheshoe » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:11 am

HOME RUN ORLANDO CABRERA!!!

HE'S THE BEST OF ALL TIME!

(SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL!) :diablo: :diablo: :diablo:
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby ironmike » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:18 am

Regarding which players to promote and their current status ... what it really all boils down to is which players can help us WIN now at the ML level. When you get a chance to contend you go for it.

If the organization can't budget the acquisition of top tier players outside the organization and are structured to rely on their farm system as their foundation then young players at times will be promoted prematurely?

I'd like to see Kipnis here tomorrow.

Hoping Alex White can return this season.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:37 am

jellis wrote:
indians1 wrote:I think valbuena should be called up but to say that kipnis isn't major league ready is crazy. Chisenhall has more errors than kipnis, yet if he was hitting better people would be calling for him to be up in the majors.

Kipnis is my most accounts the best hitting prospect in the indians farm system. It was either him or chisenhall at the beginning of the season and we now know who is the best.

Get kipnis up now. ESPN has been saying he should be called up and is more of a sure thing to stick at 2B than dustin Ackley from Seattle.


Never seen them say anything like that, every writer on there when I asked put Ackley well ahead of Kipnis

ESPN's Dave Shoenfield made a claim that Jason Kipnis' transition from college OF'er to 2B has gone better than the transition experience of Ackley.. Both are considered average to above average 2B's at the ML level with Ackley being given the nod as a better prospect, but only if he begins stealing some bases (Zach Sanders of RotoHardBall, a blog). Otherwise.. it's all a matter of taste and style...
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:16 pm

Tondo wrote:Yeah, his game losing error in the 9th must have been the kicker...or his yearly unimpressive (for a "priority" spec) .800 OPS...or just the hype and FO ego pissing...Im going with the letter...there's no comp, Kipnis crashed Chiz pretty much evrywhere...Chis is only up before him because of position, NOT because he's better

Valbuena most probably has the AAAA tag with the FO and I understand as he crushed AAA pitching last year too and got over 250 ABs at the MLB level and disappointed...he's probably just a depth option and well behind Donald/Kipnis/Carrera, but considering the crappy, no future at all vet-alternatives we have, I'd still give him 1 last shot at it...we have so much dead weight at the ML level to get him some ABs in to find out


In your opinion. In the opinion of most, Chiz is better plain and simple. Again, in the end you could end up right (that Kip will outperform Chiz), but most feel differently.


I think you're right on Valby though. Seems to have that AAAA tag. Don't think he deserves it as he was called up too soon, then was played out of position and without a ton of regularity but no denying that he failed to impress last year (though 10 HRs from a rookie 2B in 2009 was not too shabby).
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:19 pm

indians1 wrote:I think valbuena should be called up but to say that kipnis isn't major league ready is crazy. Chisenhall has more errors than kipnis, yet if he was hitting better people would be calling for him to be up in the majors.

Kipnis is my most accounts the best hitting prospect in the indians farm system. It was either him or chisenhall at the beginning of the season and we now know who is the best.

Get kipnis up now. ESPN has been saying he should be called up and is more of a sure thing to stick at 2B than dustin Ackley from Seattle.


Agree here since Chiz is no longer in the farm system :drinks:
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Tondo » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:54 pm

Hermie13 wrote:In your opinion. In the opinion of most, Chiz is better plain and simple. Again, in the end you could end up right (that Kip will outperform Chiz), but most feel differently.


I'd love to be wrong...as in Kipnis performing as I expect him to (still see Kinsler/Utley-upside) and Chiz outperforming him...I'd be pretty happy with that :crazy: but we're talking 2-3 years from now...the great start this year probably got our expectations too high and fast forwarded our patience
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby daingean » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:47 pm

Tondo wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:In your opinion. In the opinion of most, Chiz is better plain and simple. Again, in the end you could end up right (that Kip will outperform Chiz), but most feel differently.


I'd love to be wrong...as in Kipnis performing as I expect him to (still see Kinsler/Utley-upside) and Chiz outperforming him...I'd be pretty happy with that :crazy: but we're talking 2-3 years from now...the great start this year probably got our expectations too high and fast forwarded our patience


The hot start certainly accelerated the the time table of contention. A playoff run will certainly improve our ability to compete in future years (revenue, experience, confidence). That said yes few (if any) of us envisioned we would be where we are and many of us believe we can do it now but most of do feel that moves need to be made (some have already been made) to stay in it and possibly make the playoffs.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:27 pm

daingean wrote:
Tondo wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:In your opinion. In the opinion of most, Chiz is better plain and simple. Again, in the end you could end up right (that Kip will outperform Chiz), but most feel differently.


I'd love to be wrong...as in Kipnis performing as I expect him to (still see Kinsler/Utley-upside) and Chiz outperforming him...I'd be pretty happy with that :crazy: but we're talking 2-3 years from now...the great start this year probably got our expectations too high and fast forwarded our patience


The hot start certainly accelerated the the time table of contention. A playoff run will certainly improve our ability to compete in future years (revenue, experience, confidence). That said yes few (if any) of us envisioned we would be where we are and many of us believe we can do it now but most of do feel that moves need to be made (some have already been made) to stay in it and possibly make the playoffs.
The next move needs to include an SP from AAA. At least, that should be the next big thing, inclusive of or barring injury..

As a side note..

We have a dedicated group of 31 baseball fans from across the country that make predictions prior to the start of each baseball season. $ 20 a head. Ties count. Predictions include each division winner.. the Wild Card Winner and the playoffs through the World Series.. We've known each other, almost all on line, for close to 12 years.. This year.. despite the national and local prognosticators picking the Indians to finish either dead last or close to dead last, and, being queried by my so-called friends about "is this your real picks this year? are you just throwing your money away?.." My picks were: in the NL Phillies, Reds, Rockies and SF Giants (WC) in the AL: Red Sox, Indians Rangers and Rays (WC). The Reds beat the Rockies for the NL Pennant and the Indians beat the Rays for the AL Pennant, respectively.. and then, the Indians win their first World Series of this Millenium in 2011.. AND YES.. I meant it.. So far.. my predictions aren't looking too good, but they're not so bad.. They looked a lot better a few weeks ago.. but, with predictions, they can go either way in a hurry..

Any way, the point of this note is to count me into the "few".. and remove the "any" from the posting..

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby ironmike » Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:33 am

This years team is built around pitching and defense. If we don't acquire a RH bat then they should find ways to make these two areas even more productive. A veteran, play-off experienced starting pitcher should be a consideration.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:41 am

ironmike wrote:This years team is built around pitching and defense. If we don't acquire a RH bat then they should find ways to make these two areas even more productive. A veteran, play-off experienced starting pitcher should be a consideration.


No thanks on trading for starting pitching. Indians like the staff they have and the infielders/catchers at their disposal. If they make a trade, it is likely going to be for outfield help (Francoeur/Cuddyer, etc).
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:56 am

TonyIPI wrote:
ironmike wrote:This years team is built around pitching and defense. If we don't acquire a RH bat then they should find ways to make these two areas even more productive. A veteran, play-off experienced starting pitcher should be a consideration.


No thanks on trading for starting pitching. Indians like the staff they have and the infielders/catchers at their disposal. If they make a trade, it is likely going to be for outfield help (Francoeur/Cuddyer, etc).
Jeff Francoeur as a potential trade target has being right handed as a plus.. after that.. he's really not much better than a streaky hitter with a strong arm.. Frenchy would be a BIG pass as he's not much, if at all, better than Buck or Kearns, imho. Michael Cuddyer is a player that offers great clubhouse respect, plays okay defensively at several spots and is playoff tested. He'd be a fine addition if his price tag wasn't too high (as an intra-division rival). A couple other players that may be considered as trade targets would be:

-Chase Headly from SD. He can play 3B as well as LF. He even has a very small sampling at 1B as well. The Padres aren't going anywhere this season and are in the process of rebuilding their ML roster and minors. A couple of C+ to B+ prospects could sway them. The Indians have a decent history of trades with the Padres, so, that relationship may help facilitate a trade...

-Hunter Pence from Houston. Primarily a RF and a perfect fit for what the Indians need. The Dis-Astros are going nowhere this season, so, by definition, a "seller" at the trade deadline. Before the deadline really begins to loom, the Indians, if they are willing to "go for it", they should consider him very soon, as in before the ASB... Houston is the second best trading partner, historically, with the Indians. Only with the Seattle Mariners have the Indians had such a great track record of successful trades..

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated...
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby entertheshoe » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:08 pm

Hunter Pence, I don't really see that happpening. As nice as it would be, we would have to either include Sizemore or Choo in the deal or else we would be paying either of them (Sizemore when Choo gets back) some big money to be 4th outfielder. Maybe a 3-team deal could be worked out with one team getting Sizemore or Choo, the Astros getting prospects, and us getting Pence. It would take a serious prospect to get Pence too and I just don't see this front office going "all in".
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Tondo » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:45 pm

Francoeur is just a platoon bat imho...and VERY streaky, something I don't like...he's been crap since May this year, his numbers still live off off his great April start...no thanks

Headley hits RHP better than LHP...while I like him as a gamble (if not too expensive), I think he'd be a bad fit for what we need

Cuddyer is decent and can play pretty much any Corner spot but too expensive for his production and a FA after this season...looks like a 2nd half rental only and I'd only be ok for that if we don't give up much

Now Pence...he has his arby years coming up, I'm pretty clueless with this stuff...can anybody tell me what he would get? If we can afford his next 2 years salaries, he'd def be a guy I'd be willing to give up something substantial for...he's pretty much Choo with little less speed and OBP ability (takes less walks) but little more HR power...very consistent too....he'd be a good fit, especially if we intend to let Sizemore go...but perfect for what we need NOW with Choo out...edit: I would NOT give up Choo straight up for Pence, let alone include specs...would be a dumb move imho...Sizemore + spec? yes, Choo straight up? no

Other rental options:

- J.Gomes...platoon only bat, Reds might listen should they be out of it
- Morse...is a FA and will demand big bucks, WAS is 7 games out...he could be avilable soon, but cost a lot as he should have a big market
- Denorfia...my sleeper pick...might be very cheap to get. Def an upgrade over Kearns and we might get him for a mid level C-prospect only...poor man's, older version of Brantley, no big power bat but ok all around. Upcoming FA, may be re-signable to short term deal...would get guaranteed ABs vs LHP
- J.Rivera...power bat vs LHP
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:55 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:-Chase Headly from SD. He can play 3B as well as LF. He even has a very small sampling at 1B as well. The Padres aren't going anywhere this season and are in the process of rebuilding their ML roster and minors. A couple of C+ to B+ prospects could sway them. The Indians have a decent history of trades with the Padres, so, that relationship may help facilitate a trade...

No way that's happening. Headley is far and away the Padres best hitter, 27 years old, and under team control through 2014. Jed Hoyer would be insane to give up his best trade chip (or a guy they have time to rebuild around) for "a couple of C+ to B+ prospects".
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:13 pm

Pork Chop Pough wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:-Chase Headly from SD. He can play 3B as well as LF. He even has a very small sampling at 1B as well. The Padres aren't going anywhere this season and are in the process of rebuilding their ML roster and minors. A couple of C+ to B+ prospects could sway them. The Indians have a decent history of trades with the Padres, so, that relationship may help facilitate a trade...

No way that's happening. Headley is far and away the Padres best hitter, 27 years old, and under team control through 2014. Jed Hoyer would be insane to give up his best trade chip (or a guy they have time to rebuild around) for "a couple of C+ to B+ prospects".
What is more important to the Padres.. Keeping the best hitter on a last place club or acquiring someone who can really help them when they are ready to contend in 2013/14?. Is he really worth that much? I don't see it. Headly has one year for club renewal and then his arbitration I-III begin. The price of C+ to B+ prospects is about right.. Players who are designated or are considered C+ to B+ include names like Jason Kipnis, Scott Barnes, Alex White, Drew Pomeranz, Chun Chen. etc.. Not that any of those names would be considered as part of a trade for Chase Headly. They are mentioned to show that the price for acquiring Headly, C+ / B+ prospects, is more than fair and a couple of them...well, you get the point..
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Hermie13 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:16 pm

Tondo wrote:Francoeur is just a platoon bat imho...and VERY streaky, something I don't like...he's been crap since May this year, his numbers still live off off his great April start...no thanks

Other rental options:

- J.Gomes...platoon only bat, Reds might listen should they be out of it
- Morse...is a FA and will demand big bucks, WAS is 7 games out...he could be avilable soon, but cost a lot as he should have a big market
- Denorfia...my sleeper pick...might be very cheap to get. Def an upgrade over Kearns and we might get him for a mid level C-prospect only...poor man's, older version of Brantley, no big power bat but ok all around. Upcoming FA, may be re-signable to short term deal...would get guaranteed ABs vs LHP
- J.Rivera...power bat vs LHP


While I agree with what you're saying about Frenchy, he's cheap and shouldn't be hard to get. Tribe outfield could use a platoon guy that can hit lefties.

also, FYI...Morse is NOT a free agent. He is under team control thru 2013 in fact. This year was his first arby year, he has 2 left. Which is why very few think he'll be made available.


Also, while Gomes wouldn't be a bad get...not sure he's a fit. Him and Duncan were the 2 involved in that Spring Training incident at 2B when Duncan slide hard into Iwamura. Gomes basically speared him. Perhaps we cut Duncan though...
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Hermie13 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:22 pm

A RH bat I'd keep an eye on (as I've mentioned before) is Casey Blake. Can play 3B, 1B, and the OF. Typically has hit lefties well. got off to a great start but has been Grady's clone since his return from the DL (the same day as Grady actually). He would need to pick it up (last 5 games have been encouraging), but reports are saying the Dodgers may just give him away. A nice vet who could replace Kearns and obviously knows the team and some of the players.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby MadThinker88 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:29 pm

Hermie13 wrote:A RH bat I'd keep an eye on (as I've mentioned before) is Casey Blake. Can play 3B, 1B, and the OF. Typically has hit lefties well. got off to a great start but has been Grady's clone since his return from the DL (the same day as Grady actually). He would need to pick it up (last 5 games have been encouraging), but reports are saying the Dodgers may just give him away. A nice vet who could replace Kearns and obviously knows the team and some of the players.


An interesting idea. Not sure how the fans in this area would take it.
A friend of mine in Cbus is thinking Gomes (of Cinci) might be available soon at the cost of a bullpen arm.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Tondo » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:29 pm

Thanks for the heads up on Morse...you have a good site to look up this stuf? I just go throgh roto's player pages and they have him with 1year/1mil...no FA there though, so a brainfart on my part....probably thought he is on a Kearn-like deal...yeah, no way they deal Morse then
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Hermie13 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:37 pm

Tondo wrote:Thanks for the heads up on Morse...you have a good site to look up this stuf? I just go throgh roto's player pages and they have him with 1year/1mil...no FA there though, so a brainfart on my part....probably thought he is on a Kearn-like deal...yeah, no way they deal Morse then


http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/washington-nationals_01.html

You can also use baseball-reference. Look at the player's ML service time. If you don't have at lease 5 years (heading into a season) then you can't be a free agent after the season (unless cut/non-tendered). He had just over 3 (which was why he was arby eligible). He won't have 6 full years til after the 2013 season.

Do need to be careful though early in a season cause sometimes the sites don't update service time as well as they should.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:35 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
Pork Chop Pough wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:-Chase Headly from SD. He can play 3B as well as LF. He even has a very small sampling at 1B as well. The Padres aren't going anywhere this season and are in the process of rebuilding their ML roster and minors. A couple of C+ to B+ prospects could sway them. The Indians have a decent history of trades with the Padres, so, that relationship may help facilitate a trade...

No way that's happening. Headley is far and away the Padres best hitter, 27 years old, and under team control through 2014. Jed Hoyer would be insane to give up his best trade chip (or a guy they have time to rebuild around) for "a couple of C+ to B+ prospects".
What is more important to the Padres.. Keeping the best hitter on a last place club or acquiring someone who can really help them when they are ready to contend in 2013/14?. Is he really worth that much? I don't see it. Headly has one year for club renewal and then his arbitration I-III begin. The price of C+ to B+ prospects is about right.. Players who are designated or are considered C+ to B+ include names like Jason Kipnis, Scott Barnes, Alex White, Drew Pomeranz, Chun Chen. etc.. Not that any of those names would be considered as part of a trade for Chase Headly. They are mentioned to show that the price for acquiring Headly, C+ / B+ prospects, is more than fair and a couple of them...well, you get the point..

There is no point in rebuilding if you're going to give up your best players without getting a Kipnis, White, etc. out of the deal. How else are they going to acquire the level of talent they need to win? As I've already pointed out, they control Headley's rights for the next 3 seasons and he's basically a .400 obp/.400 slg. hitter entering his prime years and plays 3B. You're seriously underselling him.
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:42 pm

Pork Chop Pough wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
Pork Chop Pough wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:-Chase Headly from SD. He can play 3B as well as LF. He even has a very small sampling at 1B as well. The Padres aren't going anywhere this season and are in the process of rebuilding their ML roster and minors. A couple of C+ to B+ prospects could sway them. The Indians have a decent history of trades with the Padres, so, that relationship may help facilitate a trade...

No way that's happening. Headley is far and away the Padres best hitter, 27 years old, and under team control through 2014. Jed Hoyer would be insane to give up his best trade chip (or a guy they have time to rebuild around) for "a couple of C+ to B+ prospects".
What is more important to the Padres.. Keeping the best hitter on a last place club or acquiring someone who can really help them when they are ready to contend in 2013/14?. Is he really worth that much? I don't see it. Headly has one year for club renewal and then his arbitration I-III begin. The price of C+ to B+ prospects is about right.. Players who are designated or are considered C+ to B+ include names like Jason Kipnis, Scott Barnes, Alex White, Drew Pomeranz, Chun Chen. etc.. Not that any of those names would be considered as part of a trade for Chase Headly. They are mentioned to show that the price for acquiring Headly, C+ / B+ prospects, is more than fair and a couple of them...well, you get the point..

There is no point in rebuilding if you're going to give up your best players without getting a Kipnis, White, etc. out of the deal. How else are they going to acquire the level of talent they need to win? As I've already pointed out, they control Headley's rights for the next 3 seasons and he's basically a .400 obp/.400 slg. hitter entering his prime years and plays 3B. You're seriously underselling him.

No insight other than being San Diegan. It would be an absolute shock for Headley to be traded as he is a major part of the rebuild here. The Indians cannot afford the bidding for the expiring contract of Ryan Ludwick. What makes anyone think they will give up prospects that good for a player under team control that the Pads are using in their rebuild? Does not compute IMO. :pleasantry:
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Hermie13 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:42 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:A RH bat I'd keep an eye on (as I've mentioned before) is Casey Blake. Can play 3B, 1B, and the OF. Typically has hit lefties well. got off to a great start but has been Grady's clone since his return from the DL (the same day as Grady actually). He would need to pick it up (last 5 games have been encouraging), but reports are saying the Dodgers may just give him away. A nice vet who could replace Kearns and obviously knows the team and some of the players.


An interesting idea. Not sure how the fans in this area would take it.
A friend of mine in Cbus is thinking Gomes (of Cinci) might be available soon at the cost of a bullpen arm.


Not sure fans in what area would take it?


Gomes has been mentioned, but again not sure how well he fits in the clubhouse unless you're adding him at the expense of Duncan. An upgrade offensively though over Duncan (defensively lose a backup 1B).
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby Hermie13 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:45 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:What is more important to the Padres.. Keeping the best hitter on a last place club or acquiring someone who can really help them when they are ready to contend in 2013/14?.


Headley is under team control thru 2014 (at least)...so he will be there to help them contend in 2013/2014 :drinks:
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Re: Ocab a fit for SF Giants?

Postby MadThinker88 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:57 pm

Here in Cleveland.

The fan base really rode Blake because he seemed to be "Wedge-type" of player. Its unfortunate that many could not see past that.

The sad thing is Blake would do anything asked of him at his best ability. Can't fault him for that.
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