SF Giants v Cleveland Indians June 24th - 26th

by **GeronimoSon** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:44 pm

Entering the series...

Indians: 40-33, 1st place in AL Central with a 1 game lead. 16-19 on the road. 6-4 in last 10.
SF Giants: 41-34, 2nd place in NL West, ½ GB the DBax. 21-13 at home. 5-5 in last 10.
The Indians have remained 1st place over the week with a fine 4-2 homestand against the Rockies and Pirates with including a 3-game sweep of the Pirates, The Rockies hurt the Indians chances for a phenomenal home stand by taking 2 of 3 in the three one runs games. Cleveland has the best inter-league record in games played to date this season. The Indians will benefit from the schedule as they'll miss "The Freak" Tim Lincecum and arguably their hottest pitcher, Ryan Vogelsong during the three game series.

Friday, 10:15 ET
Carlos Carrasco RHP (7-3, 3.87 ERA) vs. Jonathan Sanchez, LHP (4-5, 3.71 ERA)
Carrasco comes into the contest Friday evening on his best roll in his brief career. In his last three starts, he's pitched 21.2 innings giving up just one earned run. He has begun to unleash the talent that was seen when he was one of the main pieces that came over from the Phillies in the Cliff Lee Trade. Carrasco has continued to make hitters beat the ball into the ground while surrendering nothing. Jonathan Sanchez, like the rest of his starting staff-mates, has been limited in the win column as the Giants just have not been able to score runs. Sanchez hasn't had a "clean" start in nearly two months, surrendering nearly six walks per nine innings while going into the sixth inning in just half of his starts. Sanchez has been able to keep the Giants in the game, but hasn't gotten the kind of run support to bail him out of mediocre outing. He has a relatively poor 2-4 record (w/ four no decisions) over his last ten starts.

Saturday, 4:10 ET
Justin Masterson, RHP (5-5, 3.18 ERA) v Matt Cain, RHP (6-4, 3.44 ERA)
Masterson has continued to show he is a ML SP, however, continues to pitch on the wrong day. He hasn't earned a "W" since April 26, a span stretching to 10 starts include seven where he surrendered two or fewer runs while going an average of nearly seven innings per outing. He's been able to keep The Indians in the game for each of his starts save for all his starts against the Tampa Bay Rays. Cain, on the other hand, has pitched extremely well lately and has the results to show for it. Sunday, the 19th of June, against cross bridge rival Oakland, Cain gave up one run on three hits and no walks in seven innings to earn a no decision, the first "non-W" in his last four starts. This is typical of the SF Giants and their offense.

Sunday, 8:05 ET "The Game of the Week" nationally televised
Fasuto Carmona, RHP ( 4-9, 5.98 ERA ) Madison Bumgarner LHP ( 3-9, 4.06 ERA )
Carmona is coming off another melt down effort in a home game against the Rockies (7 earned runs, six in the fifth inning) after eking out his first victory in six weeks in a 5 inning houdini act against the Detroit Tigers. Fausto maintains his current streak of allowing at least 4 ER in 8 straight starts, and is worst in the AL in losses and ERA. Fausto continues to throw a nasty sinker and get hammered by his off speed offerings. Madison Bumgarner could have given Fausto "Bad Pitching Lessons" as he gave up eight straight hits to open the game on Tuesday against the Twins and nine total, allowing eight runs while only being able to retire one batter. To call this outing a "meltdown" would be an understatement Tuesday. The lefty was the first pitcher since 1900 to give up at least nine hits while recording one out or less. The bottom line here: someone has to be able to have a reasonable game..there is no reason to believe it would be one of the other starter for this nationally televise contest. There is an outside chance the Giants may SKIP Mad-Bum and start Zito in his place..we shall see.

NOTES:
• The Indians have recalled Shelly Duncan for pinch hitting, 1b and OF backup duties.

• The Indians bullpen is ranked first in the AL with a cumulative 2.99 ERA

• Shin-soo Choo is hitting .370 over his last 8 games.

• The Giants will have a special promotion Friday: Korean Heritage Night at AT&T Park. Fans who purchase special tickets for this event will receive a Special Edition Korean-themed Giants Scarf with a portion of the proceeds being donated to non-profit agencies in the Korean community. Shin-soo Choo will get squadoooshe.

• The Indians swept their only previous trip to San Francisco in 2005

by **Prosecutor** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:52 pm

Giants are tied for last in the NL in runs scored and four of their top five OPS guys hit right-handed, so there is no excuse for the Tribe starters to give up a lot of runs. That means you, Fausto.

Nobody on their team has more than 8 HRs and the entire team only has 47 dingers in 75 games. They have to string hits together to score.

Combine that with not having to face their top two starters and this series might actually be winnable, especially since the lefty we have to face is not that good. They are 21-13 at home, though, so it's no cakewalk. Should be a tight, low-scoring series with more one-run games like the series against the Rockies, only with less scoring.

by **criznit2009** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:15 pm

As rar as top teams in baseball go, the Giants are a team that the inidans should be able to beat. Without Posey, there line-up takes a huge hit (cough..Hafner). Should be a fun time for the team, and think we win the series. 1st 2 games even.

by **entertheshoe** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:16 pm

Sizemore
O Cab
A Cab
Santana
Choo
Kearns
Marson
Hannahan
Carrasco

I just puked in my mouth a little bit after looking at that lineup. Interesting that Brantley has the day off after getting Wednesday off and as putrid as Sizemore has been against southpaws.

Edit: And 4 seconds after posting this, Sizemore strikes out on queue. I'll honestly be happier if he bunt fouled out, these strikeouts versus lefties are getting crazy.

by **entertheshoe** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:24 pm

Ah, Brantley has a sore left shoulder. Hopefully it's not too bad.

by **Prosecutor** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:19 pm

Brantley has a sore left shoulder. Hopefully it's not too bad.

Especially since Choo just got hit with a pitch and knocked out of the game. Hope nothing's broken or we're in a world of hurt.

I don't want to jinx us but a 3-0 lead is looking pretty good right now the way Carrasco is pitching. Looking at the Giants' hitters statistics, I'm wondering how they're ahead of Colorado in the standings.

by **dazindiansfanuk** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:25 pm

Looked a nailed on certainty to me that Choo has either fractured or broken his thumb.

by **Edible14** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:56 pm

This outfield of Kearns-Sizemore-Duncan makes me sad inside.

If Choo has to go on the DL, obviously Buck replaces him in the lineup. Maybe you then make room for Nick Johnson's promotion...

Would also mean that Austin Kearns keeps his roster spot unless they decide to couple that with a Zeke or Goedert promotion. Ugh.

by **indianinkslinger** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:10 am

Well, thoughts that Santana could play 1B at the ML level should go by the wayside. It looks like the OF is going to be an even bigger disaster with Choo out, probably six weeks or more. If Sizemore was ever going to pick a time to recapture some skills of his youth, this is it.

by **entertheshoe** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:45 am

This game will be remembered for 3 plays:

2 of them are Carlos Santana errors, and the other is the Choo hit-by-pitch

Instead of a L for Carlos Carrasco, they should make an exception and give it to Carlos Santana

Enough with Kearns
Enough with Sizemore lead-off

Hopefully the Choo injury isn't too bad

:wacko:

by **Edible14** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:46 am

indianinkslinger wrote:Well, thoughts that Santana could play 1B at the ML level should go by the wayside. It looks like the OF is going to be an even bigger disaster with Choo out, probably six weeks or more. If Sizemore was ever going to pick a time to recapture some skills of his youth, this is it.

The first error had to do with footwork and not setting correctly to make that throw. That's the sort of error you can expect out of a guy who hasn't played much of the position. The second one was less excusable. You would think he would have seen plenty of those type of hits back when he was playing 3B. If you thought that Santana was a better defender than LaPorta... hard to stand by that tonight.

Also, the collision with Carrasco by Hannahan was really poor, even though it didn't mean anything.

Great stuff by Carrasco tonight, and that's the positive message to take home here.

by **A.Zajac** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:55 am

Choo with a broken thumb, Buck coming up tomorrow. Welp, that's not good...

by **entertheshoe** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:59 am

A.Zajac wrote:Choo with a broken thumb, Buck coming up tomorrow. Welp, that's not good...

First Shelley and now Buck.

We just can't get enough of them, I guess.

by **ChadS17** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:09 am

Travis Buck brings nothing to this team. Hitting .230, average defense. A team with our offense cannot afford a month+ of Buck starting. And we have no replacement. A broken thumb will keep Choo out a while, and this, to me, means they NEED to go outside the organization for a bat.

by **ChadS17** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:22 am

1. Sizemore
2. Brantley
3. Cabrera
4. Santana
5. Buck
6. O Cabrera
7. Hannahan
8. Marson
9. Pitcher

:bomb:

by **martyinnewyork** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:01 am

Will this team score a run in the next 8 games of this road trip? Offense looks like Kinston's, 8 guys hitting around .220. WE NEED A BAT!!!

I say call up Carrera, they say "we love old guys who can't hit"... so we get a steady diet of Kearns/Duncan/Buck... Nick Johnson will be next, since he's one of the only guys in Columbus not hitting...

Sizemore needs to drop to lower third of the order, Carrera could take the top spot. The guy has 27 steals...

by **Tondo** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:32 am

Literally throwing away games, unbelievable :bad:

The only good news really is Carrasco pitching another QS....Choo's injury is devastating, a core bat that was coming along as of late...couple that with Hafner designated to PH duties and we'll be lucky scoring 3runs a game. WTF is Kearns still doing on this roster?...I don't care who is injured or not, the whole Columbus lineup is better than this hack. He swung LATE on a 83mph changeup with 2 strikes, he wasn't fooled...he was LATE...guy is so obviously TOAST but Manny has some mancrush going with Austin, who I'm sure is a very likeable guy but cmon he just isn't getting it done

While Santana is the goat of the day, I gotta say ACab has to catch that ball on the 1st error...it never touched the ground, the ball fully hits his glove...it was a bad low throw but I expect him to catch it

by **hoof32** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:46 am

ChadS17 wrote:Travis Buck brings nothing to this team. Hitting .230, average defense. A team with our offense cannot afford a month+ of Buck starting. And we have no replacement. A broken thumb will keep Choo out a while, and this, to me, means they NEED to go outside the organization for a bat.

Hey, maytbe the team will go outside and look.

But I woudn't jump at whatever is offered... it's pretty mediocre everywhere.

Teams are not going to deal us good rightfield candidates, and they're really not going trade their top prospects for anything close to affordable... even if it is the CLEVELAND INDIANS calling. Wouldn't be prudent. :pleasantry:

The Columbus roster is pretty much a 4A team. All they need next is the opportunity to succeed in the MFL.

So yank Bucky back into his opportunity to succeed: The act of optioning Buck down AGAIN, should re-set the clock, and, bam: another chance for Travis Buck to succeed.

Bonus: It's cheap in a good way: I HATE overpaying for mediocrity.

Who in our system, has the potential tools to replace Choo, right now? ~ ~ ~ It's Travis Buck first, and Huffman way behind the Buckster. Carrerra can't really be the right fielder we need... Hell, Buck can't come close to Choo's arm. But... he's the best we have for the next month. :dunno:

by **GeronimoSon** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:12 am

No doubt about it.. the low throw by Carlos was certainly catchable.. E-6 should be the call. Carlos charging the topper was clearly a player that was over anxious to make a play.. Giving a team that hits even more poorly than the Indians five outs in an inning = disaster..

Carlos Carrasco was on cruise control. The work Car-Car and Marson do together is about as good as it gets. Marson really knows how to bring the best out of his pitcher.

Austin Kearns & Shelly in the same lineup is brutal..

Let's see if the Masterful one can get a W today.. with Fausto starting tomorrow.. the Indians need the W to potentially avoid a sweep in SF...

by **Edible14** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:49 am

GeronimoSon wrote:No doubt about it.. the low throw by Carlos was certainly catchable.. E-6 should be the call. Carlos charging the topper was clearly a player that was over anxious to make a play.. Giving a team that hits even more poorly than the Indians five outs in an inning = disaster..

While true that Cabrera could have picked it, you can't rely on your SS to make a first baseman's pick on a throw that he's going to try and turn into a double play. Still an absolutely awful throw by Carlos.

How about Nick Johnson comes up for Austin Kearns... nowish. That would be nice. I realize that it would leave Duncan as the 4th OF. Not sure I care at this point.

by **martyinnewyork** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:01 pm

Nick Johnson is tearing the cover off the ball in AAA - in a 6-26 "hot streak" at the moment... he would fit right in with the parent club...

by **entertheshoe** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:38 pm

Edible14 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:No doubt about it.. the low throw by Carlos was certainly catchable.. E-6 should be the call. Carlos charging the topper was clearly a player that was over anxious to make a play.. Giving a team that hits even more poorly than the Indians five outs in an inning = disaster..

While true that Cabrera could have picked it, you can't rely on your SS to make a first baseman's pick on a throw that he's going to try and turn into a double play. Still an absolutely awful throw by Carlos.

How about Nick Johnson comes up for Austin Kearns... nowish. That would be nice. I realize that it would leave Duncan as the 4th OF. Not sure I care at this point.

The right call was made. Carlos's throw took Cabrera off of the bag. It's no different than if there's a groundball to Asdrubal at SS and his throw to 1st pulls Carlos off of the bag. The error is to the one who made the throw. Sure Cabrera could have caught it, but he couldn't have made the out with his foot not on the bag.

by **GhostofTedCox** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:34 pm

Travis Buck activated. I hope they don't consider that a long term solution.

by **Hermie13** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:38 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:Travis Buck activated. I hope they don't consider that a long term solution.

Not many (if any) better options right now sadly.

by **Hermie13** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:54 pm

ha, would not want to be Schierholtz right now....that's embarrassing

by **Hermie13** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:02 pm

ugh...or Phelps

by **Tondo** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:10 pm

This will be a new low...wasting another QS on 2 errors and a balk in 1 inning, pretty disappointing

by **entertheshoe** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:11 pm

If they're going to beat themselves like this they should have just not even shown up for these games. Then at least we wouldn't have gotten Choo injured for nothing.

And isn't defense one of the things that's holding back Jason Kipnis? No way he can be worse than Phelps. 4 errors in 9 games at 2nd base is unacceptable.

by **Hermie13** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:29 pm

Tondo wrote:This will be a new low...wasting another QS on 2 errors and a balk in 1 inning, pretty disappointing

Definitely terrible.

Way more disgusted with Asdrubal Cabrera's game though. Twice he was up with a runner on 3rd and only 1 out...neither time does he get the ball out of the infield and neither time the run scores. In the 1st he was up with guys on 1st and 2nd and no outs....and can't even put the ball in play. No excuses for how Phelps fielded that inning, but if you're batting in the 3-hole and supposively an All-Star candidate, you GOTTA get an RBI in those situations at least once

by **Edible14** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:38 pm

I'm going to second-guess Acta in the 8th. Bases loaded, 2 outs, tough lefty on the mound and Grady at the plate. Grady has been terrible against lefties, and you have Shelley Duncan on the bench. Pinch-hitter and lefty killing extraordinaire Shelley Duncan. You need to make that move. Hell, you can spin it so that Buck takes over in left and the pitcher spot goes to Duncan's spot in the lineup using a double-switch.

Even if the Giant immediately pull him for a righty, I'd take Travis Buck vs. a righty in that situation over Grady vs. a lefty.

by **Tondo** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:39 pm

Having watched most of the games this season, I have to say this is a pretty "dumb" team lately...just a general observation....best bullpen, pretty strong SP but horrible Offense AND defense....easy blame game

by **indianinkslinger** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:46 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:This will be a new low...wasting another QS on 2 errors and a balk in 1 inning, pretty disappointing

Definitely terrible.

Way more disgusted with Asdrubal Cabrera's game though. Twice he was up with a runner on 3rd and only 1 out...neither time does he get the ball out of the infield and neither time the run scores. In the 1st he was up with guys on 1st and 2nd and no outs....and can't even put the ball in play. No excuses for how Phelps fielded that inning, but if you're batting in the 3-hole and supposively an All-Star candidate, you GOTTA get an RBI in those situations at least once

Cabrera my foot! Although Phelps and Sipp deserve the criticism, the real problem at the plate is Grady Sizemore who came up four times with men on base and left all seven without getting the ball out of the infield. When you are paid $8M to play the game this year, the team is entitled to expect more than his pathetic performance. And every game he has played in May and June has been a repeat performance of his plate ineptitude. Not only are the Indians not a better team with Grady but he should be immediately replaced with Carrera. Zeke could not possibly play any worse than Sizemore is playing. :s_mad

by **Hermie13** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:55 pm

Tondo wrote:Having watched most of the games this season, I have to say this is a pretty "dumb" team lately...just a general observation....best bullpen, pretty strong SP but horrible Offense AND defense....easy blame game

I actually mostly agree here. Agree completely on the "dumb" team comment. Team makes way too many mental errors.

by **Hermie13** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:03 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:This will be a new low...wasting another QS on 2 errors and a balk in 1 inning, pretty disappointing

Definitely terrible.

Way more disgusted with Asdrubal Cabrera's game though. Twice he was up with a runner on 3rd and only 1 out...neither time does he get the ball out of the infield and neither time the run scores. In the 1st he was up with guys on 1st and 2nd and no outs....and can't even put the ball in play. No excuses for how Phelps fielded that inning, but if you're batting in the 3-hole and supposively an All-Star candidate, you GOTTA get an RBI in those situations at least once

Cabrera my foot! Although Phelps and Sipp deserve the criticism, the real problem at the plate is Grady Sizemore who came up four times with men on base and left all seven without getting the ball out of the infield. When you are paid $8M to play the game this year, the team is entitled to expect more than his pathetic performance. And every game he has played in May and June has been a repeat performance of his plate ineptitude. Not only are the Indians not a better team with Grady but he should be immediately replaced with Carrera. Zeke could not possibly play any worse than Sizemore is playing.

Please get facts straight

Grady came up 3 times with men on base (not 4), and yes he didn't get the ball out of the infield. But all 3 times there were 2 outs. Terrible? Yes. But NOT as bad as Cabrera who all 3 times (the same 3 times as Grady) had LESS than 2 outs and runners in scoring position.

All he had to do was advance a runner, not even get a hit....and he couldn't do it. WAY, WAY worse game today at the plate for Cabrera than Grady. Not giving Grady a pass because it was a bad day for him too, but your hate for Grady is clouding what was the real issue today (without question) which was Asdrubal Cabrera.

Yes, Grady left 7 and AC "only" 5...but that's only because Santana walked in front of him once and Everett was thrown out at home (if he doesn't move, AC leaves 6 on base). They both sucked today; AC worse though. Saying otherwise just shows you are just bias against Grady.

by **entertheshoe** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:29 pm

They both sucked.

Period.

No point in getting into a discussion about who sucked more. What is this, some kind of suck off contest?

by **GhostofTedCox** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:37 pm

+1. Are you guys arguing about who was worse?

by **indianinkslinger** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:49 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Tondo wrote:This will be a new low...wasting another QS on 2 errors and a balk in 1 inning, pretty disappointing

Definitely terrible.

Way more disgusted with Asdrubal Cabrera's game though. Twice he was up with a runner on 3rd and only 1 out...neither time does he get the ball out of the infield and neither time the run scores. In the 1st he was up with guys on 1st and 2nd and no outs....and can't even put the ball in play. No excuses for how Phelps fielded that inning, but if you're batting in the 3-hole and supposively an All-Star candidate, you GOTTA get an RBI in those situations at least once

Cabrera my foot! Although Phelps and Sipp deserve the criticism, the real problem at the plate is Grady Sizemore who came up four times with men on base and left all seven without getting the ball out of the infield. When you are paid $8M to play the game this year, the team is entitled to expect more than his pathetic performance. And every game he has played in May and June has been a repeat performance of his plate ineptitude. Not only are the Indians not a better team with Grady but he should be immediately replaced with Carrera. Zeke could not possibly play any worse than Sizemore is playing.

Please get facts straight

Grady came up 3 times with men on base (not 4), and yes he didn't get the ball out of the infield. But all 3 times there were 2 outs. Terrible? Yes. But NOT as bad as Cabrera who all 3 times (the same 3 times as Grady) had LESS than 2 outs and runners in scoring position.

All he had to do was advance a runner, not even get a hit....and he couldn't do it. WAY, WAY worse game today at the plate for Cabrera than Grady. Not giving Grady a pass because it was a bad day for him too, but your hate for Grady is clouding what was the real issue today (without question) which was Asdrubal Cabrera.

Yes, Grady left 7 and AC "only" 5...but that's only because Santana walked in front of him once and Everett was thrown out at home (if he doesn't move, AC leaves 6 on base). They both sucked today; AC worse though. Saying otherwise just shows you are just bias against Grady.

I don't buy your argument at all. It is you who has been knocking Cabrera non-stop for over a year. In your case, Grady is another case of unwarranted "man love" just like Manny which is not justified by the facts. You can try to be selective about your numbers but a batter was intentionally walked just so a pitcher could face Sizemore with the bases loaded and it was a batter hitting 230. :sad:

by **Hermie13** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:32 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:I don't buy your argument at all. It is you who has been knocking Cabrera non-stop for over a year. In your case, Grady is another case of unwarranted "man love" just like Manny which is not justified by the facts. You can try to be selective about your numbers but a batter was intentionally walked just so a pitcher could face Sizemore with the bases loaded and it was a batter hitting 230.

I'm pretty sure you have no clue what "man love" means....

If you honestly believe that Grady was more at fault TODAY because he was up 3 times with men in scoring positions and made 3 outs (on balls in play) than AC who was up 3 times with men on base with less than 2 outs and made 3 outs (and a K) then fine, it's your own opinion. This is almost as good as when you posted in the spring about how bad Hannahan looked defensively

I mean, I post about how bad AC hit today and you use it to turn around and blame Grady? Really? We get it, you hate Grady :rolleyes:

While I have been on Cabrera's case (his defense though), I can admit he has been much, much better this year. He's been one of our best offensive players this year without question. But TODAY he was our worst hitter and was the main reason we lost (other than Phelps' defense). It's simple as that.

Everyone is entitled to a bad game, and AC had one. Are you really going to act like he didn't?

by **Edible14** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:11 am

indianinkslinger wrote:You can try to be selective about your numbers but a batter was intentionally walked just so a pitcher could face Sizemore with the bases loaded and it was a batter hitting 230.

Grady certainly has been not-so-good since returning from injury. He has a history of not playing well when he's hurt - even slightly so. But that move had everything to do with handedness and matchups.

Which is why I say... why not pinch hit Duncan there? It's basically the only thing you can use Duncan for - pinch hitting against righties - with any kind of success. Worst case scenario they bring in Wilson (I think he was getting loose at the time) early and you then put in Buck.

by **GeronimoSon** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:29 pm

Grady has been lost lately.. with Mad-bum going tonight.. don't look for that to change anytime soon. Being dropped into the fifth spot in the order is a big "meh".

The bottom line regarding the last two games.. one earned run allowed by our pitching staff over two games.. both losses..

The Indians need to catch the ball..then throw the ball... Fausto on the hill tonight against equally struggling Madison Bumgarner.. could be a very ugly game..

by **indianinkslinger** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:08 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:I don't buy your argument at all. It is you who has been knocking Cabrera non-stop for over a year. In your case, Grady is another case of unwarranted "man love" just like Manny which is not justified by the facts. You can try to be selective about your numbers but a batter was intentionally walked just so a pitcher could face Sizemore with the bases loaded and it was a batter hitting 230.

I'm pretty sure you have no clue what "man love" means....

If you honestly believe that Grady was more at fault TODAY because he was up 3 times with men in scoring positions and made 3 outs (on balls in play) than AC who was up 3 times with men on base with less than 2 outs and made 3 outs (and a K) then fine, it's your own opinion. This is almost as good as when you posted in the spring about how bad Hannahan looked defensively

I mean, I post about how bad AC hit today and you use it to turn around and blame Grady? Really? We get it, you hate Grady
While I have been on Cabrera's case (his defense though), I can admit he has been much, much better this year. He's been one of our best offensive players this year without question. But TODAY he was our worst hitter and was the main reason we lost (other than Phelps' defense). It's simple as that.

Everyone is entitled to a bad game, and AC had one. Are you really going to act like he didn't?

Oh Hermie, I am real sure what "man love" is. You have told us you check the Cleveland highways for traffic every day and that is how we all know that Cleveland has lots of people for its games. Now that could be your way of making a living but it does not qualify as "man love". Since you were busy with your traffic checks, you did not see the game i witnessed in ST which i blogged about Hannahan's defense at 3B so i fail to see where you have any knowledge to comment. But that does not stop you any time does it? Such is the way of TT! :s_biggrin

by **Prosecutor** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:29 pm

Sunday's game - looks like it's over already after 4 innings. If I count this correctly, the Giants are 4-for-6 with runners on, so Carmona's problems pitching from the stretch continue. Bottom of the 4th and Orel Hershiser just did a split screen to analyse Carmona from the windup and the stretch and explained how he's spinning his upper body from the stretch instead of driving off his back leg. Maybe Belcher should ask Hersch for some help.

The Indians offense is a joke right now. Duncan is usually pretty good against lefties but Baumgartner has struck him out twice, leaving three runners in scoring position.

The announcers said the report is that Fausto is pitching for his job tonight. So far it looks like he'll be getting another job. He gave up a two-run, two-out double to a guy hitting .156 after getting ahead of him 0-2. Unbelievable.

So far this inning, Marson threw a ball into centerfield on a steal attempt and Sizemore just dropped a routine fly ball. I'm getting the impression these guys just want to get out of here.

by **ChadS17** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:15 pm

Scary to think that this is Fausto's best start in almost two months.

by **entertheshoe** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:20 pm

It's easy to pick Fausto as the goat, but 6 innings and 3 earned runs puts most teams in position to win the game.

Nice start by him. There were only a couple of solid hits off of him and that was a very poor relay throw from Orlando Cabrera and could have saved the Tribe 1 run.

Unlike it seems everyone else, I'm not ready to chase Fausto out of town. He still has some of the nastiest stuff in baseball.

by **MadThinker88** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:54 pm

The way the Grady is hitting (or I should say not hitting), he should sit for a game. With the other guys that are missing, I doubt Manny would make that move before they get back to Cleveland.

Defensively as a team, 6 errors (2 per game) is embarassing.

by **entertheshoe** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:58 pm

I'm having a tough time thinking of who deserves to be here less. If I had to put it in order, for me it would probably go:

Austin Kearns
Adam Everett
Shelley Duncan
Chad Durbin
Travis Buck
Jack Hannahan
Orlando Cabrera

Tough call if you're the front office because all of these guys are "team leaders" who lead by example.

by **Tondo** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:06 am

Agree mostly with the list but would put OCab ahead of Hannahan...really, can the Columbus guys be ANY worse than this bunch? I'd at least nix Kearns, Duncan and Everett and bring in Kipnis, Valbuena and Head...it's way time for a change with the bats...the Columbus guys are younger, are swinging hot bats and cant be worse and even if they fail it's not like we would have lost future players as I think nobody on here wants/expects Kearns, Duncan and Everett to be here even next season...so, why are they now producing automatic outs while we have by far the best (and probably youngest) AAA team full of specs deserving a promotion?

I really don't get the org's vet-lovefest while stockpiling very good young talent...what is this good for if you don't give them a chance when they are deserving? Almost half of the AAA to A+ rosters should be playing at a higher level...and while it's 50% because of depth the other big reason is dead vet weight at the MLB and AAA level...I'm not even saying to NOT do this in the offseason...we took a chance on some guys as we always do, but most, as always too, failed though (I give Hannahan a pass because of his D, been "unimpressed" with OCab's)...so it's time to move on...they've been given half a season, they're not producing and they're not part of the future...so what's their use?

by **GeronimoSon** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:10 am

entertheshoe wrote:It's easy to pick Fausto as the goat, but 6 innings and 3 earned runs puts most teams in position to win the game.

Nice start by him. There were only a couple of solid hits off of him and that was a very poor relay throw from Orlando Cabrera and could have saved the Tribe 1 run.

Unlike it seems everyone else, I'm not ready to chase Fausto out of town. He still has some of the nastiest stuff in baseball.

Specifically, after the third inning.. Fausto was pretty much in command.. perhaps he can carry that over into his next start.. As far as the Hershheiser side by side comparison, absolutely something there.. Fausto kept the club in the game.. the Indians didn't catch the ball particularly well today..and they certainly didn't throw the ball particularly well. These two things made what would otherwise be considered a reasonable or quality start.. into an "L".. Such is the way baseball goes..

As far as the list.. the ordered priority..etc.. If a player isn't suitable or isn't the next most unsuitable.. does the order really matter?

by **Hermie13** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:11 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:I don't buy your argument at all. It is you who has been knocking Cabrera non-stop for over a year. In your case, Grady is another case of unwarranted "man love" just like Manny which is not justified by the facts. You can try to be selective about your numbers but a batter was intentionally walked just so a pitcher could face Sizemore with the bases loaded and it was a batter hitting 230.

I'm pretty sure you have no clue what "man love" means....

If you honestly believe that Grady was more at fault TODAY because he was up 3 times with men in scoring positions and made 3 outs (on balls in play) than AC who was up 3 times with men on base with less than 2 outs and made 3 outs (and a K) then fine, it's your own opinion. This is almost as good as when you posted in the spring about how bad Hannahan looked defensively

I mean, I post about how bad AC hit today and you use it to turn around and blame Grady? Really? We get it, you hate Grady
While I have been on Cabrera's case (his defense though), I can admit he has been much, much better this year. He's been one of our best offensive players this year without question. But TODAY he was our worst hitter and was the main reason we lost (other than Phelps' defense). It's simple as that.

Everyone is entitled to a bad game, and AC had one. Are you really going to act like he didn't?

Oh Hermie, I am real sure what "man love" is. You have told us you check the Cleveland highways for traffic every day and that is how we all know that Cleveland has lots of people for its games. Now that could be your way of making a living but it does not qualify as "man love". Since you were busy with your traffic checks, you did not see the game i witnessed in ST which i blogged about Hannahan's defense at 3B so i fail to see where you have any knowledge to comment. But that does not stop you any time does it? Such is the way of TT!

O good grief

by **Hermie13** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:14 pm

entertheshoe wrote:It's easy to pick Fausto as the goat, but 6 innings and 3 earned runs puts most teams in position to win the game.

Nice start by him. There were only a couple of solid hits off of him and that was a very poor relay throw from Orlando Cabrera and could have saved the Tribe 1 run.

Unlike it seems everyone else, I'm not ready to chase Fausto out of town. He still has some of the nastiest stuff in baseball.

Yeah can't dump him yet. Not a great start by any stretch but got the job done and would have put a normal offense in a position to win. Hopefully he can build on this. :drinks:

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