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Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

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Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:07 pm

Entering the series...
Indians: 35-29, T-1st place in AL Central with the Tigers. 15-17 on the road. 2-8 in last 10.
Tigers: 36-30, T-1st place in AL Central with the Indians. 20-13 at home. 7-3 in last 10.
...The Indians are coming off just their 2nd win in the last 11 games, both 1-0 victories from Carlos Carrasco. They've scored only 22 runs over that 11 games stretch, with 7 of those coming in a loss last Friday. The Tigers have not held sole possession of first place since last July. They have gone 24-14 since they last played Cleveland, the 2nd best record in the league behind Boston.

Tuesday, 7:05 ET
Justin Masterson, RHP (5-4, 3.18 ERA) vs. Justin Verlander, RHP (7-3, 2.89 ERA)

Masterson hasn't picked up a win in any of his last 8 starts, despite a 3.79 ERA over that stretch. He didn't register a decision in his last start, even though he went 8 innings and allowed just 2 runs. He remains the hardest starting pitcher to homer against (0.3 HR/9) in the AL. • Verlander has won each of his past three starts, posting a 1.14 ERA in 23.2 ip, and holding batters to .193/.239/.241. He ranks second in the league in innings, strikeouts and WHIP. He's third in BAA at .193, and left-handers are batting only .180. He's won 6 of his last 7 decisions against Cleveland, but at 10-11 lifetime, the Indians are one of only two AL teams Verlander has a career losing record against.

Wednesday, 7:05 ET
Fausto Carmona, RHP (3-8, 5.71) vs. Brad Penny, RHP (5-5, 4.69)

There's no sugar-coating how bad Carmona has been recently, going 0-5 in his last 6 starts with an 8.49 ERA. He lasted just 4 innings (6 ER) on Friday against the Yankees. His ERA is the worst of all qualifying starters in the AL. • Penny has pitched for 5 teams in the past 4 years, but has only faced the Indians once in his career, a 2009 start with the Red Sox, in which he failed to make it through the 3rd inning (2.2 ip, 7 runs, 4 earned). After striking out 5.7/9ip each of the past two seasons, he's dropped to a career low 4.0 K/9 so far this year. He's 4-2, 3.57 ERA (45.1 ip) since the beginning of May, and more prone to getting hit by right-handers (.818 OPS v RH / .726 v LH).

Thursday, 1:05 ET
Mitch Talbot, RHP (2-3, 4.01) vs. Max Scherzer, RHP (8-2, 4.39)

Talbot is 1-2 in his past 3 starts, despite a 2.45 ERA. The Tigers use a fairly balanced lineup, but expect them to start one of their backup lefty outfielders against Talbot, who is getting lit up by lefties with a 1.056 OPS against. • Scherzer's 8 wins are tied for 2nd best in the AL although he's proven to be quite hittable this season -- his .324 BABIP is 4th highest and the league, and he hasn't fared much better on balls hit out of play, as the 12 home runs he's allowed are tied for 5th most. Even accounting for the 7 innings of 1-run ball he pitched against the punchless Mariners his last time out, he's sporting a 8.71 ERA over his past 4 starts. He's 1-3, 5.97 ERA in his 5 career starts against the Indians.

NOTES:
• The Indians have lost 15 of their last 17 games in Detroit.
• Asdrubel Cabrera is one of the few Indians still hitting, with a .337 average and 16 RBIs in his last 21 games.
• Shin-Soo Choo has 1 rbi in his last 18 games.
• Dating back to the last game played between these two teams, Orlando Cabrera has walked twice in 119 plate appearances.
• The Tigers get the most offense in the league from their catchers. No AL catcher has better slash stats than Alex Avila (.301/.362/.554), and they lose nothing offensively when Victor Martinez (regular DH) gives him a day off (.318/.368/.500).
• That helps make up for the offensive holes they're enduring at 2B, 3B & LF, where no one has an OPS above .565.
• Austin Jackson's season numbers are still sunk from a terrible start -- even after a good series against Cleveland earlier this year, he was hitting .194/.269/.269 -- but he's at .309/.364/.460 in his last 34 games.
• Magglio Ordonez went 0-for-2 last night in his first game in a month (ankle), and is hitting .168 with 1 HR in 27 games, but he figures to have a long leash, since all of Detroit's bench players are having poor offensive seasons.
• Tigers reliever Al Alburquerque might be having the strangest season of any pitcher in MLB. In 20.2 ip, he's allowed just 8 singles and a double, and his 16.1 K/9 is the highest rate in baseball among pitchers with 20+ innings. However, his 6.5 BB/9 is the 4th highest rate in the game.

The Indians are 3-0 vs. the Tigers so far this season:
4/29 - W - 9-5 • Win: C. Perez. Loss: Benoit.
4/30 - W - 3-2 (13) • Win: Sipp. Loss: Villareal.
5/1 - W - 5-4 • Win: Durbin. Loss: Benoit.
They split the 2010 series 9-9.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Prosecutor » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:02 pm

Need to get Carmona, Choo, and Sizemore going, and soon. This would be a great series for those guys to get back on track, or at least take a step in that direction.

What are the odds of the Tribe not scoring a run off Verlander? Better than 50-50 I'd say.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:08 pm

In the notes, the Indians are one of the few teams that have had relatively decent success against this guy.. but it has to come early and often. Once Verlander settles in.. he's nasty. The Tigers won't be starting Jhonny P tonight, so that will take one of the guys who are hitting out of their lineup. When facing the Tigers.. there are only a couple of rules that need to be followed:

Rule # 1: Miguel Cabrera cannot beat us.. Walk him if a base is open, keep the ball off the plate inside and up. He'll whine like a New York Yankee to the ump about the tight pitches.. but so what..

Rule # 2: Under no circumstances should rule number one be changed or altered in any way.

Take away Miguel..and the hitters left aren't nearly as effective or productive.. :s_yes :s_yes :s_yes
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby entertheshoe » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:52 pm

I feel like it's my duty to mention that Verlander has a no-hitter going through 3.

Let's hope that jinxed him.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Tondo » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:56 pm

OCab can just go...really...he got his warning with Phelps and now in a mid-season PO-like game he botches a lazy pop up...just cut him and bring up Kipnis or Valbuena
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby entertheshoe » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:08 pm

Tondo wrote:OCab can just go...really...he got his warning with Phelps and now in a mid-season PO-like game he botches a lazy pop up...just cut him and bring up Kipnis or Valbuena


I agree, although I'm not sure if that popup really should have been his to make. One of the outfielders should have called him off and taken it in truth. Still, a good 2nd basemen probably would have made that play.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Tondo » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:17 pm

entertheshoe wrote:
Tondo wrote:OCab can just go...really...he got his warning with Phelps and now in a mid-season PO-like game he botches a lazy pop up...just cut him and bring up Kipnis or Valbuena


I agree, although I'm not sure if that popup really should have been his to make. One of the outfielders should have called him off and taken it in truth. Still, a good 2nd basemen probably would have made that play.


I thought the same thing at 1st watching it live...but on the replay you could clearly see that it was his ball all the way...Brantly would have only had an all out sliding catch...it was OCabs ball...he simply misplayed it and it cost 2 runs, which more than likely sealed this game already...just cut him asap
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:33 pm

Tondo wrote:
entertheshoe wrote:
Tondo wrote:OCab can just go...really...he got his warning with Phelps and now in a mid-season PO-like game he botches a lazy pop up...just cut him and bring up Kipnis or Valbuena


I agree, although I'm not sure if that popup really should have been his to make. One of the outfielders should have called him off and taken it in truth. Still, a good 2nd basemen probably would have made that play.


I thought the same thing at 1st watching it live...but on the replay you could clearly see that it was his ball all the way...Brantly would have only had an all out sliding catch...it was OCabs ball...he simply misplayed it and it cost 2 runs, which more than likely sealed this game already...just cut him asap


I agree with you, that was his ball (though if Brantley is running hard, he gets there). Disagree on cutting him. Still has value against lefties. Seeing him there against Verlander though is tough.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:57 pm

Hopefully this will lead to some roster moves that clearly need to be made
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:58 pm

entertheshoe wrote:I feel like it's my duty to mention that Verlander has a no-hitter going through 3.

Let's hope that jinxed him.


make that 7 :sorry:
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby indianinkslinger » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:08 pm

It looks a lot like Sizemore is not up to playing the game any more. Put him back on the DL when Hafner returns and send him out for 20 games. If he cannot play any better than he does now, why not put him on the bench? Even Kearns is not this embarrassing? :sad:
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby entertheshoe » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:11 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:It looks a lot like Sizemore is not up to playing the game any more. Put him back on the DL when Hafner returns and send him out for 20 games. If he cannot play any better than he does now, why not put him on the bench? Even Kearns is not this embarrassing? :sad:


I wouldn't go that far. Keep in mind this is Justin Verlander pitching here. He should not be batting leadoff though that's for sure.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby entertheshoe » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:14 pm

Of all people to break up the no-hitter, OCab is probably THE last one.

:shok:
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:18 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:It looks a lot like Sizemore is not up to playing the game any more. Put him back on the DL when Hafner returns and send him out for 20 games. If he cannot play any better than he does now, why not put him on the bench? Even Kearns is not this embarrassing? :sad:


Sizemore's OPS in June: .775

Kearns' OPS in June: .455

Yeah, Sizemore is sooooo much more embarrassing than Kearns.


And for shits and giggles, Brantley's OPS in June: .780

Sizemore does need to pick it up, no question. But DL him? Um....definitely not :nea

I get your frustration, but this is a better team with Sizemore on it, simple as that.


As far as who should hit leadoff.....Sizemore does have a .375 OBP (heading into today) vs Brantley's .352 this month.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:53 pm

Better chance: Win division or top 10 pick next year?
Really feels like they have to win one of the next 2 against Det to stay in it
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Edible14 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:49 pm

Lloyd Christmas wrote:Better chance: Win division or top 10 pick next year?
Really feels like they have to win one of the next 2 against Det to stay in it


I didn't post it, but going into the series my thought was this:

Aim has to be a sweep. A sweep builds back up half of the lead that the team had built up, and I think you could largely consider this last losing spell over and forgiven if that happens.

2 out of 3 gets you a 1 game lead, which makes us all feel better but means the rest of the season is likely going to be a rollercoaster.

1 out 3 - Terrible. Losing the division lead and continuing the downward spiral.

Swept - Time to cut 3-5 players
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby jellis » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:59 pm

I pretty much thought bets case is 2 out of 3 with a loss tonight, we cant hit average pitching right now so Verlander was going to kill us
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:02 am

Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:It looks a lot like Sizemore is not up to playing the game any more. Put him back on the DL when Hafner returns and send him out for 20 games. If he cannot play any better than he does now, why not put him on the bench? Even Kearns is not this embarrassing? :sad:


Sizemore's OPS in June: .775

Kearns' OPS in June: .455

Yeah, Sizemore is sooooo much more embarrassing than Kearns.


And for shits and giggles, Brantley's OPS in June: .780

Sizemore does need to pick it up, no question. But DL him? Um....definitely not :nea


I get your frustration, but this is a better team with Sizemore on it, simple as that.


As far as who should hit leadoff.....Sizemore does have a .375 OBP (heading into today) vs Brantley's .352 this month.

Interesting write Hermie but pretty irrelevant to Sizemore today. Your stats are weighted by the performance of 3
weeks in April. Even in early May his stats were declining but they went in the crapper after his short stint on the
DL which are the most relevant stats. Simply put, they have found his holes and they are numerous and easy to
exploit.

He is averaging nearly 1.5 Ks pergame and hitting under 200 since his return. Surprised you did not use his stats from 1997. They mean about as much except he could hit breaking and offspeed pitches and LHP better than a 200 BA which he cannot do now. Other than that, his mediocre defense and inablility to run the bases, he is just the same player. Sorry, not particularly frustrated and definitely not persuaded by your argument. Just wantling to get the deadwood out of the lineup. BTW, if you compare Kearns stats since then against Sizemore, he has not been more pathetic. :rolleyes:
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Prosecutor » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:53 am

Well, it was nice being in first place. Unless we win tonight we might not be there again for years.

Verlander was a man among boys. No team could have beaten him tonight. I asked earlier what the odds are of the Tribe not scoring a run off him. The better question would have been what are the odds of the Tribe not getting a hit off him.

Grady missed a lot of baseball last year. He wasn't ready when spring training started and missed the first 2-3 weeks of the season. Then he was rolling until he got hurt again. I'd give him some time to get settled in before concluding that he's finished.

Good decision by Acta not to play Cord Phelps. The kid's confidence is probably halfway destroyed already; having to face Verlander three times would have finished him off.

That was an embarassing misplay by Orlando, but it had no effect on the outcome. All the Tigers needed was one run. Another game of non-support for Masterson. By the way, how many more throws is Santana going to launch into center field this year?
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:43 am

Prosecutor.. yes, it was an ugly game.. void of any offense from the Indians against Verlander. The Tigers also get the benefit of a day off for their bullpen which will make the remaining two games that much tougher for our young and talented Wahoos. What can be taken from the game is that Justin Masterson displayed the grit and determination of a gamer. He wouldn't give in and send a mid thigh fastball down the middle to get hammered. It seemed that only Avila & Cabrera were able to really barrel the ball. The three run third inning was a collection of dinks and dunks and dribblers, bad defense and walks. The Tigers batted around, but, didn't seem to be rallying so much as they were getting the ball to find a patch of green grass by accident.

Now comes the middle game of the series.. and FAUSTO. Fausto's most recent outings don't inspire confidence that he'll be able to command and control the strike zone. Then again, Fausto's inconsistency could do a "u-ey" and he could force the tigers into pounding the ball into the dirt all night long.. we shall see. All will be forgiven if the Indians bats come alive...even for one night. Brad Penny isn't exactly Justin Verlander, too.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:23 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:It looks a lot like Sizemore is not up to playing the game any more. Put him back on the DL when Hafner returns and send him out for 20 games. If he cannot play any better than he does now, why not put him on the bench? Even Kearns is not this embarrassing? :sad:


Sizemore's OPS in June: .775

Kearns' OPS in June: .455

Yeah, Sizemore is sooooo much more embarrassing than Kearns.


And for shits and giggles, Brantley's OPS in June: .780

Sizemore does need to pick it up, no question. But DL him? Um....definitely not :nea


I get your frustration, but this is a better team with Sizemore on it, simple as that.


As far as who should hit leadoff.....Sizemore does have a .375 OBP (heading into today) vs Brantley's .352 this month.

Interesting write Hermie but pretty irrelevant to Sizemore today. Your stats are weighted by the performance of 3
weeks in April. Even in early May his stats were declining but they went in the crapper after his short stint on the
DL which are the most relevant stats. Simply put, they have found his holes and they are numerous and easy to
exploit.


Um...how are my numbers "weighted by the performance of 3 weeks in April"?

my numbers were from strictly the month of JUNE heading into yesterday's game......his April numbers were not included...hence why I said OPS IN JUNE and "this month" :rolleyes:

So how exactly have his numbers "gone in the crapper" since his DL stint? The numbers I gave were from after that. Yes, his numbers aren't as good as before, but c'mon now.
Last edited by Hermie13 on Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:28 pm

Prosecutor wrote:Well, it was nice being in first place. Unless we win tonight we might not be there again for years.

That was an embarassing misplay by Orlando, but it had no effect on the outcome. All the Tigers needed was one run. Another game of non-support for Masterson. By the way, how many more throws is Santana going to launch into center field this year?



Wow....love your optimism :wacko:


Disagree on Orlando's error not having any effect on the outcome. While 1 run was considered 'earned' that inning, it completely changed the dynamic of that inning. That last 'earned' run later in the game (off the bullpen, charged to Masterson) was BS too. If Asdrubal doesn't throw the ball like a girl home, Miggy is a dead whale (errr duck) coming home. Defense really let Masterson down all over.....though in fairness he didn't do himself many favors with the walks.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:30 pm

Perhaps I just have never noticed....but does Carmona usually rock the high socks?
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Tondo » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:34 pm

Santan just misses a 2 run HR on a foul ball, then hits 1 up the middle for a double play, then Carmona gets the 1st 2 batters out, allows a HR, error, cant get anyone out and it's 0-3...ballgame

That inning was the epitome of Indians baseball the last few weeks: stupidity, incompentency, bad luck and then some stupidity :bad:
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby entertheshoe » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:37 pm

Why does an error always ALWAYS come back to get us? If Hannahan makes that play then it's a 123 inning no damage done. But nope, things aren't that simple.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby entertheshoe » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:38 pm

Edit: 1 2 HR 3
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby MadThinker88 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:26 pm

Its nice to the offense finally show up on this trip. :biggrin:
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Edible14 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:41 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:Its nice to the offense finally show up on this trip. :biggrin:


And without any production from Brantley... that's actually good news. Hopefully everyone is snapping out of it.

I think the callup of Phelps has gotten OCab's attention, no?

Better outing for Carmona tonight. A few less defensive miscues, he might go an extra inning or two.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Prosecutor » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:36 pm

I don't want to jinx Perez but Raffie, Sipp, and Vinnie were really impressive out of the pen tonight.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Bearcatbob » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:39 pm

Edible14 wrote:
MadThinker88 wrote:Its nice to the offense finally show up on this trip. :biggrin:


And without any production from Brantley... that's actually good news. Hopefully everyone is snapping out of it.

I think the callup of Phelps has gotten OCab's attention, no?

Better outing for Carmona tonight. A few less defensive miscues, he might go an extra inning or two.


It seems to me that O Cab plays like 5 days a week until say we are 5 out. Then we can play next years players. Until then we dance with girl who brung us.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Bearcatbob » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:43 pm

Prosecutor wrote:I don't want to jinx Perez but Raffie, Sipp, and Vinnie were really impressive out of the pen tonight.


CP was nails!
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby entertheshoe » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:04 pm

First place we meet again! That win was hyuge!!

Couple thoughts:

1) Choo looked to have tweaked his check swing a little bit. Previously he was really getting fooled and as a result when he would try to check swing he would end up going all the way. Today he actually made a serious effort to not just stop the bat, but to actually pull it back. Definitely helped him get into more favorable counts today

2) Carmona looked very good today. I really only think of this start as him allowing 2 earned runs because that Hannahan error really turned into a mess that inning and it wasn't really his fault. After that inning he settled down and finally got ahead of hitters. Also, it's tough to get on Jack for the error, Cabera smacks the crap out of the ball.

3) Marson really seems to get the best out of pitchers. I'd be curious to see pitchers ERA's when he's back there as opposed to Santana. Also, I've noticed that when he calls a timeout and talks on the mound to the pitcher there are results immediately. It seems to really help them whatever he is saying. His bat has also been surprisingly nice too.

4) Orlando Cabrera is the best! Sorry, I had to say that. Nice hits, that probably signals the end of Cord Phelps as soon as Hafner comes back (Friday?)

5) LaPorta is really doing well. Every at bat he had tonight was great. Even his strikeout was 11 pitches IIRC, with like 9 pickoff attempts at Choo who was on first.

6) That bullpen is SMOKIN'! Pestano is lights out and Chris Perez is pitching angry. LOVE it. Anytime the game is close I feel confident with them back there.

7) Brantley doesn't seem to like not leading off too much. It will be interesting to see what happens when Hafner comes up. I would probably go with Sizemore, Santana, Choo, ACabera, Hafner, LaPorta, Brantley, OCabera, Hannahan. Kinda crazy to have Brantley batting 7th but hey, good problem to have I guess.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby hoof32 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:10 pm

Tondo wrote:Santan just misses a 2 run HR on a foul ball, then hits 1 up the middle for a double play, then Carmona gets the 1st 2 batters out, allows a HR, error, cant get anyone out and it's 0-3...ballgame

That inning was the epitome of Indians baseball the last few weeks: stupidity, incompentency, bad luck and then some stupidity :bad:


Tondo funny!!

Hey, who was that two-bee that ripped three hits tonite? He was perdy good!! :clapping:
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:30 pm

entertheshoe wrote:
3) Marson really seems to get the best out of pitchers. I'd be curious to see pitchers ERA's when he's back there as opposed to Santana. Also, I've noticed that when he calls a timeout and talks on the mound to the pitcher there are results immediately. It seems to really help them whatever he is saying. His bat has also been surprisingly nice too.

4) Orlando Cabrera is the best! Sorry, I had to say that. Nice hits, that probably signals the end of Cord Phelps as soon as Hafner comes back (Friday?)

7) Brantley doesn't seem to like not leading off too much. It will be interesting to see what happens when Hafner comes up. I would probably go with Sizemore, Santana, Choo, ACabera, Hafner, LaPorta, Brantley, OCabera, Hannahan. Kinda crazy to have Brantley batting 7th but hey, good problem to have I guess.


They showed his ERA before the game....was in the 3's. Tribe was 11-8 I want to say (so 12-8 now)?

You are probably right on Phelps going down for Hafner....but personally hoping it's Kearns. Buck can stay as that 4th OFer. I'd even prefer to see Buck go down and Kearns staying as the 4th OFer. As I'm sure most know, I hate having 2 backup OFers and only 1 backup infielder. Makes little sense.

I'd consider dropping Brantley down there too. While it's only been 3 games in the 3-hole, he just wasn't getting on base a ton...his OBP has been dropping since April. Could still move Grady down again, but he's always hit better in the leadoff spot.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby ChadS17 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:42 am

entertheshoe wrote:
7) Brantley doesn't seem to like not leading off too much. It will be interesting to see what happens when Hafner comes up. I would probably go with Sizemore, Santana, Choo, ACabera, Hafner, LaPorta, Brantley, OCabera, Hannahan. Kinda crazy to have Brantley batting 7th but hey, good problem to have I guess.


One game does not make up for 3 weeks. Still an offensively challenged team. Therefore, no way Brantley hits lower in the order. It is a problem and it's a horrible one. No doubt in my mind Hafner hits cleanup, so..

1. Sizemore
2. A Cabrera
3. Brantley
4. Hafner
5. Santana
6. Choo
7. LaPorta
8. O Cabrera
9. Hannahan

...makes the most sense IMO.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:47 am

entertheshoe wrote:3) Marson really seems to get the best out of pitchers. I'd be curious to see pitchers ERA's when he's back there as opposed to Santana. Also, I've noticed that when he calls a timeout and talks on the mound to the pitcher there are results immediately. It seems to really help them whatever he is saying. His bat has also been surprisingly nice too.

Through yesterday's game:
Marson: 176 inn, 3.22 ERA, 2.06 K/BB, .247/.305/.396
Santana: 406 inn, 4.32 ERA, 2.09 K/BB, .267/.330/.400

They've certainly gotten better results with Marson behind the plate, but the ERA is a little more exaggerated than the slash stats… probably because the pitching staff's BAbip when Marson is catching is just .265, but with Santana behind the plate it's .305. Is that simply luck, or is Santana responsible for them making more bad pitches that get turned into line drives? I have no idea… I suspect Santana deserves some responsibility for that, but my hunch is not a lot. They're certainly making mistake pitches with Marson behind the plate, too (in fact, they're giving up home runs much more often with Marson catching, which isn't a factor in BAbip). So I'd lean towards there being a healthy dose of luck in the BAbip which then gets reflected in the ERA... but yeah, they're still pitching better with Marson behind the dish.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:21 am

Pork Chop Pough wrote:
entertheshoe wrote:3) Marson really seems to get the best out of pitchers. I'd be curious to see pitchers ERA's when he's back there as opposed to Santana. Also, I've noticed that when he calls a timeout and talks on the mound to the pitcher there are results immediately. It seems to really help them whatever he is saying. His bat has also been surprisingly nice too.

Through yesterday's game:
Marson: 176 inn, 3.22 ERA, 2.06 K/BB, .247/.305/.396
Santana: 406 inn, 4.32 ERA, 2.09 K/BB, .267/.330/.400

They've certainly gotten better results with Marson behind the plate, but the ERA is a little more exaggerated than the slash stats… probably because the pitching staff's BAbip when Marson is catching is just .265, but with Santana behind the plate it's .305. Is that simply luck, or is Santana responsible for them making more bad pitches that get turned into line drives? I have no idea… I suspect Santana deserves some responsibility for that, but my hunch is not a lot. They're certainly making mistake pitches with Marson behind the plate, too (in fact, they're giving up home runs much more often with Marson catching, which isn't a factor in BAbip). So I'd lean towards there being a healthy dose of luck in the BAbip which then gets reflected in the ERA... but yeah, they're still pitching better with Marson behind the dish.


Well, you can't ignore how well Marson has done at holding runners:
Marson: 9 stolen cases, 12 caught stealing, 0 errors(57% number 1 in the majors I believe)
Santana: 32 stolen bases, 9 caught stealing, 4 errors (12% putout rate)

Getting/preventing runners in scoring position no doubt can affect the pitchers ERA.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:24 am

ChadS17 wrote:
entertheshoe wrote:
7) Brantley doesn't seem to like not leading off too much. It will be interesting to see what happens when Hafner comes up. I would probably go with Sizemore, Santana, Choo, ACabera, Hafner, LaPorta, Brantley, OCabera, Hannahan. Kinda crazy to have Brantley batting 7th but hey, good problem to have I guess.


One game does not make up for 3 weeks. Still an offensively challenged team. Therefore, no way Brantley hits lower in the order. It is a problem and it's a horrible one. No doubt in my mind Hafner hits cleanup, so..

1. Sizemore
2. A Cabrera
3. Brantley
4. Hafner
5. Santana
6. Choo
7. LaPorta
8. O Cabrera
9. Hannahan

...makes the most sense IMO.


Eh, I don't know. Hafner wasn't hitting cleanup before the injury and I don't know if you want to put a guy fresh out of the DL/rehab at cleanup. Plus, Acta has historically alternated righty lefty at the top of the lineup so I don't know if he would have Brantley and Hafner hit back to back. Plus Choo at 6 is a little meh. To each their own I guess.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby ChadS17 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:52 am

entertheshoe wrote:
ChadS17 wrote:
entertheshoe wrote:
7) Brantley doesn't seem to like not leading off too much. It will be interesting to see what happens when Hafner comes up. I would probably go with Sizemore, Santana, Choo, ACabera, Hafner, LaPorta, Brantley, OCabera, Hannahan. Kinda crazy to have Brantley batting 7th but hey, good problem to have I guess.


One game does not make up for 3 weeks. Still an offensively challenged team. Therefore, no way Brantley hits lower in the order. It is a problem and it's a horrible one. No doubt in my mind Hafner hits cleanup, so..

1. Sizemore
2. A Cabrera
3. Brantley
4. Hafner
5. Santana
6. Choo
7. LaPorta
8. O Cabrera
9. Hannahan

...makes the most sense IMO.


Eh, I don't know. Hafner wasn't hitting cleanup before the injury and I don't know if you want to put a guy fresh out of the DL/rehab at cleanup. Plus, Acta has historically alternated righty lefty at the top of the lineup so I don't know if he would have Brantley and Hafner hit back to back. Plus Choo at 6 is a little meh. To each their own I guess.


I'm with you..this is not an ideal lineup, but you use what you have. Hafner wasn't hitting cleanup before his injury, but neither was Asdrubal. As great as he has been, he should be at the top. And personally I'd rather have Brantley 1 and Sizemore 3, but whatever.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:21 pm

Apparently that ball to Hannahan in the 1st was changed to a hit making all 4 runs earned off Carmona. Still got the win which is all that matters, but tough break. 4th run really could have been ruled unearned due to an error (Asdrubal had no business throwing to 2nd, and Orlando shouldn't have bobbled the ball). O well.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:07 pm

First couple of innings.. talbot just didn't have the command of the zone.. he's got it now.. The only question remains is can he hold onto it.. Nice to see the XBH's to start the game.. Scherzer can be gotten to if the Indians are aggressive with the AB's.. Good idea w/r to Miguel Cabrera in the 3rd.. give him nothing to hit..
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby ChadS17 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:31 pm

ADAM EVERETT WITH HIS FIRST EXTRA BASE HIT AS AN INDIAN!!
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby criznit2009 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:32 pm

Adam Everett with an XBH!!!!! Things might be turning around......
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:53 pm

What happened to that first inning offense?

And so much for winning this game, here comes Durbin.

Edit: replace Durbin with Herrmann, equally bad
Last edited by entertheshoe on Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Tondo » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:56 pm

We have pitching depth, right? There gotta be a better long man option somewhere in the org than Frank "1 pitch" Herrmann
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:22 pm

Tondo wrote:We have pitching depth, right? There gotta be a better long man option somewhere in the org than Frank "1 pitch" Herrmann


Mitch Talbot
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:51 pm

a lot of "at em" balls today.. nothing to show for most.. looks like it's back to second place.. The Pirates come to town tomorrow starting the next round of IL play..
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Re: Indians at Tigers, June 14, 15 & 16

Postby Edible14 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:01 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:a lot of "at em" balls today.. nothing to show for most.. looks like it's back to second place.. The Pirates come to town tomorrow starting the next round of IL play..


At least the offense is looking better, and the schedule is getting easier.
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