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NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

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NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Tue May 17, 2011 10:59 am

Draft Lottery is tonight! Here's to hoping the Cavs strike gold!
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Tue May 17, 2011 11:01 am

A.Zajac wrote:Draft Lottery is tonight! Here's to hoping the Cavs strike gold!


Hoping for the best.

Though this is a terrible draft to strike gold.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue May 17, 2011 11:30 am

Yes.. this draft is supposed to be one of the weakest in the last decade or more.. There are perhaps two players at the top of the list that may warrant a "lottery" selection.. and neither one impresses, imho.. The Cavs have two first rounders and one second round pick.. If the odds (1.173 in 100) of the getting both the first and second pick come to pass, then look for the Cavs to take the safe route with Kyrie Irving (PG Duke) and Derrick Williams (SF Zona).. but, if the odds don't favor the cavs.. imho, with their two top picks.. I would be

THRILLED !!

Ecstatic !!

Pleased!

to see the Cavs acquire Kemba Walker and Lucas 'bebe'" Nogueira.. and yes.. I know Bebe is a "string bean" and a project, but he could end up as the best "big" in this draft.. and perhaps the best defensive/rebounding/shot blocking center the Cavs have ever had since the days of Nate Thurmond.. :s_thumbsup
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Tue May 17, 2011 11:51 am

I'm hoping for Kyrie Irving. The other player.. and call me crazy.. that I'd love for the Cavs to draft is the guy out of Turkey who was supposed to play for Kentucky but was ineligible He's a big guy. Can't think of his name off hand though. He's a monster in the paint.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Tue May 17, 2011 12:04 pm

Yeah Enes Kanter looked great in that All Star game against Sullinger and others. Supposedly Sullinger got him back a few weeks later. But in the game that I saw Kanter dominated all the US big men.

If the Cavs dont get one of the top two I would have no problem trying to tank again and maybe trading Davis and Jamison early. Cavs are too good/mediocre if healthy and I would rather tank than win games with those guys with no future star to build around. If they get one of the top two they can build around that potential star and should try for the playoffs.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue May 17, 2011 12:08 pm

A.Zajac wrote:I'm hoping for Kyrie Irving. The other player.. and call me crazy.. that I'd love for the Cavs to draft is the guy out of Turkey who was supposed to play for Kentucky but was ineligible He's a big guy. Can't think of his name off hand though. He's a monster in the paint.


Enes Kanter is the guy you're thinking of, and I agree. Derrick Williams.....what position does he play? He's a 4 in the mold of Blake Griffin but not close to that talent level. Maybe he plays the 3...but he'd be like Jamison there.


Definitely a horribe draft to have 2 top 10 picks....that's for sure. May not even get 2 starters, let alone All-Stars.


Though I do like Kawhi Leonard out of San Diego State. Liked him even before he started to become a 'workout warrior' of sorts. His shooting has improved, and looks to be a better 3-fit than Williams.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby jellis » Tue May 17, 2011 5:55 pm

Its a bad draft for stars, but a very good draft. I think the depth here is amazing, the Davs have 4 picks and could come away with 3 starters in this draft. The stars went away but a lot of very interesting players. I like Irvingm Kanter, and Leonard a lot.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Jake Taylor » Tue May 17, 2011 6:44 pm

Obviously Irving's the runaway favorite for #1 overall, but for people complaining about the draft, it's definitely no worse than last year's draft. Sure, 2012 will probably be stacked with the incoming freshman and the likes of Barnes, Sullinger, P. Jones, and T. Jones making their way into it, but 2011 could have a good deal of talent as well. It's just likely that a good deal of that talent could come from international players. My hope is that the Cavs draft a potential star (like Irving, please) and take a project with their 2nd lottery pick. The biggest problem in the NBA is if you get good too quickly, as this team could get good enough to meddle in mediocrity and sit just outside the lottery with no real chance to improve. This team absolutely has to build through multiple years of the lottery, and with Gilbert's willingness to spend, they can potentially pick up a few more lottery picks within the next couple of years.

My board would go like this... Irving, Kanter, Williams, Knight, Vesely, Leonard, Biyombo, Burks, and Walker. Sure hoping I don't need to name more than 9 players.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue May 17, 2011 7:52 pm

Jake Taylor wrote:Obviously Irving's the runaway favorite for #1 overall, but for people complaining about the draft, it's definitely no worse than last year's draft. Sure, 2012 will probably be stacked with the incoming freshman and the likes of Barnes, Sullinger, P. Jones, and T. Jones making their way into it, but 2011 could have a good deal of talent as well. It's just likely that a good deal of that talent could come from international players. My hope is that the Cavs draft a potential star (like Irving, please) and take a project with their 2nd lottery pick. The biggest problem in the NBA is if you get good too quickly, as this team could get good enough to meddle in mediocrity and sit just outside the lottery with no real chance to improve. This team absolutely has to build through multiple years of the lottery, and with Gilbert's willingness to spend, they can potentially pick up a few more lottery picks within the next couple of years.

My board would go like this... Irving, Kanter, Williams, Knight, Vesely, Leonard, Biyombo, Burks, and Walker. Sure hoping I don't need to name more than 9 players.


Problem is, most scouts and experts don't see a single star in this draft, Irving included. I truely hope you two are right.....but this draft looks like the worst in the last 25 years (not my words either).
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue May 17, 2011 8:55 pm

Well so far so good.....Cavs get the 1st and the 4th picks. Can't argue with that. :drinks:


And not only did they get the 1st pick...but it was the Clippers pick that got it for them (2.8% chance). I'd actually say we did ok if we can away with Irving and Leonard.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby jellis » Tue May 17, 2011 9:29 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Well so far so good.....Cavs get the 1st and the 4th picks. Can't argue with that. :drinks:


And not only did they get the 1st pick...but it was the Clippers pick that got it for them (2.8% chance). I'd actually say we did ok if we can away with Irving and Leonard.


I actually think it will be irving and kanter, though leonard is a fine fall back at 4
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Tue May 17, 2011 9:34 pm

jellis wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Well so far so good.....Cavs get the 1st and the 4th picks. Can't argue with that. :drinks:


And not only did they get the 1st pick...but it was the Clippers pick that got it for them (2.8% chance). I'd actually say we did ok if we can away with Irving and Leonard.


I actually think it will be irving and kanter, though leonard is a fine fall back at 4


0% chance it'll be Leonard. It could be Kanter if he falls there or one of the other international centers.

EDIT: Alright, maybe not 0%, but I still believe it's highly unlikely with JJ.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Edible14 » Tue May 17, 2011 9:41 pm

The Clippers curse lives!
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue May 17, 2011 9:42 pm

jellis wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Well so far so good.....Cavs get the 1st and the 4th picks. Can't argue with that. :drinks:


And not only did they get the 1st pick...but it was the Clippers pick that got it for them (2.8% chance). I'd actually say we did ok if we can away with Irving and Leonard.


I actually think it will be irving and kanter, though leonard is a fine fall back at 4


I think Kanter goes top 3...but would take him. Big men tend to go higher than they should because they are so important. Kanter and Love....killer 4-5 combo.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue May 17, 2011 9:46 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
jellis wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Well so far so good.....Cavs get the 1st and the 4th picks. Can't argue with that. :drinks:


And not only did they get the 1st pick...but it was the Clippers pick that got it for them (2.8% chance). I'd actually say we did ok if we can away with Irving and Leonard.


I actually think it will be irving and kanter, though leonard is a fine fall back at 4


0% chance it'll be Leonard. It could be Kanter if he falls there or one of the other international centers.

EDIT: Alright, maybe not 0%, but I still believe it's highly unlikely with JJ.


What does JJ have to do with Leonard?

JJ is a 4 (and a 5).....Leonard is a 3. Leonard fills the biggest need of any player in this draft, plus is a legit top 5 talent (well legit for this draft at least). Leonard is athletic enough to play the 2 some too. He's a lot like Trevor Ariza. Leonard definitely could see some time at the 4, but it's not his best spot.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Jake Taylor » Tue May 17, 2011 10:23 pm

I'm with Hermie on this one... Give me Irving and Leonard. Leonard's biggest issue is his shot, as he's compared very much to Gerald Wallace, and Chad Ford said Leonard was shooting the lights out of the building in Vegas. He looks to have a killer work ethic, and SF is by far the Cavs biggest immediate need. Give me a guy that's as athletic as him and works his tail off any day.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Tue May 17, 2011 10:46 pm

Don't forget you still have Eyenga who's still young and developing at SF. Not saying he's the answer, but.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Tue May 17, 2011 10:56 pm

So it turned out to be Mo Williams and Jamario Moon for Baron Davis and Kyrie Irving.

I guess I'm OK with that.

No wonder the Clippers are possibly the worst pro sports franchise in history.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Tue May 17, 2011 11:08 pm

So likely Irving plus another top 5 player. Probably another good player added with the trade exception. Davis, Varejao, Jamison + Hickson, Sessions together all year if healthy. Id be surprised if they didnt make the playoffs in a bad East.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby jellis » Tue May 17, 2011 11:16 pm

Lloyd Christmas wrote:So likely Irving plus another top 5 player. Probably another good player added with the trade exception. Davis, Varejao, Jamison + Hickson, Sessions together all year if healthy. Id be surprised if they didnt make the playoffs in a bad East.


funny thing is if Rip[ had agreed to a buy out we would have also had detriots pick in this draft
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby ClevBuck » Wed May 18, 2011 12:02 am

TonyIPI wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Draft Lottery is tonight! Here's to hoping the Cavs strike gold![/qu

Though this is a terrible draft to strike gold.



No not really. Its IMPOSSIBLE to predict how players will tur out. Its as safe a drag as 98% of other drafts inNBA history
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby ClevBuck » Wed May 18, 2011 12:06 am

JJ and Leonard don't even play the same position. Not to mention JJ mayb traded corba draft pick



A.Zajac wrote:
jellis wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Well so far so good.....Cavs get the 1st and the 4th picks. Can't argue with that. :drinks:


And not only did they get the 1st pick...but it was the Clippers pick that got it for them (2.8% chance). I'd actually say we did ok if we can away with Irving and Leonard.


I actually think it will be irving and kanter, though leonard is a fine fall back at 4


0% chance it'll be Leonard. It could be Kanter if he falls there or one of the other international centers.

EDIT: Alright, maybe not 0%, but I still believe it's highly unlikely with JJ.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby ClevBuck » Wed May 18, 2011 12:08 am

A.Zajac wrote:Don't forget you still have Eyenga who's still young and developing at SF. Not saying he's the answer, but.


But you still take a SF Eyenga or not, if he is the BPa, which Leonard probably will be
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Wed May 18, 2011 12:13 am

What a night for Cleveland. Congrats to the Cavs....can't ask for much better than getting the #1 and #4 pick tonight.

One minor thing that bothers me....the fans being interviewed saying this is a "better feeling than in 2003" when we got the #1 pick.

What a load of bullshit. That was amazing 8 years ago when we got the #1 pick to get the hometown kid who was a no doubt franchise player. Huge difference from today. That 2003 Draft had some pretty big time franchise types going in, whereas I wonder if there is even one going into this draft. Some good players....but maybe more Moe Williams types instead of James/Wade types.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Wed May 18, 2011 9:42 am

Hah wow Tony is so negative. Hating on anything exciting for the Cavs. We get it there is no one as good as LeBron in this draft. The next 50 drafts will be disappointing if thats the type of player youre waiting for.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed May 18, 2011 10:36 am

Okay... # 1 and # 4 overall picks puts the Cavs in the "cat bird's" seat for this draft.. # 2 to the Minnesota T-pups... So, is it in the best interest of the Cavs to keep the # 1 overall?.. hmm. Here's a thought:

First off, there are two players at the top of this draft that are considered the best two prospects for NBA success. Duke's PG Kyrie Irving & Zona's SF Derrick Williams. Both will become very good NBA players and will impact their teams in the coming NBA season, be that in 2011/2012 or 2012/2013, depending on the labor negotiatios. Both these players are highly regarded and should go one and two.. After these two guys..the draft picture becomes pretty clouded. It's been stated in several publications that players taken after these two (Irving and Williams) in any spot from # 3 overall to # 20 overall can be interchangeable. So, can a team like the Cavs who have needs at every spot exploit this by trading out of the # 1 overall or the # 4 overall to acquire an additional player?..

Looking at the draft order, there are six teams including the Cavs that have two first round picks. With each, there may be a trade scenario that the Cavs may be able to exploit that will allow the Cavs' rebuild to be accelerated. While a trade may not come to pass before the draft, it may happen immediately there after, thereby insuring the players involved are under the control of the club(s). Here is a "first pass" at some potential scenarios & a likelihood statement for the top three:

1. The T-pups (#'s 2 & # 20): Cavs take Derrick Williams, leaving Kyrie Irving as the 'only one' left of the top two projected. The T-pups own the rights to PG Ricky Rubio and drafted another PG Johnny Flynn.. another PG, they don't need. They do need every thing else including a SF, PF and C. If the Cavs were to switch places with the T-pups, allowing them to take Williams, it would only cost their # 20 overall.. thereby allowing the Cavs to still get Kyrie Irving and adding the # 20 overall.. Likelihood: 5/95..i.e. Not very..

2. The Jazz (#'s 3 & # 12): The Jazz have a dire need for a PG but would take Kanter while waiting out to see if Kemba Walker / Brandon Knight are still there @# 12 overall. If the Jazz are in love with Kyrie Irving, however, they could be persuaded to give up their # 12 overall and get their PG by trading with the Cavs. Likelihood: 10/90, while not much more likely than a trade with the T-pups, this would give the Cav's the #'s 3, # 4 & # 12 picks.. a LOT of holes can be filled..ie Knight, Kanter and one of Fredette/Nogueira/Biyombo..

3. The Washington Wizards (#'s 6 & # 18): The Wiz have a PG they're more than THRILLED with.. and would love to get a player of Derrick Williams potential. If it costs their # 6 and # 18, respectively, they'd do it. The Cavs would have to be "comfortable" knowing that their guy(s): two of Kawhi Leonard, Brandon Knight, Enos Kanter & Kemba Walker will be there. With the # 18 overall, the Cavs could still have their choice of Fredette/Nogueira/Biyombo..

After the # 6 overall. the muddled talent pool becomes too murky to even consider, even though the Charlotte Bobcats (#'s 9 & #19), the Houston Rockets (#'s 14 & #23) and the Chicago Bulls (#'s 28 & # 30) all have multiple picks that can be exploited and would, no doubt, be much more "desirous" by these clubs to move into the upper teir of the draft. The Cavs # 4 overall pick may be a more likely trade scenario with these clubs, as well..

So.. it's a crap shoot with the Cav's holding some pretty good markers.. will they gamble? :dunno:
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Wed May 18, 2011 10:46 am

Think they have to take Irving and cant risk trading out. Would definitely listen to offers for the #4 pick
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Wed May 18, 2011 10:58 am

I'm no expert on this draft but my first reaction is why would you trade down if there are only two super blue-chip players and the talent drops off after that?

If the top 8-10 players were pretty much interchangable you would want to trade down for extra picks, but when the talent is concentrated at the top you want to stay put, right?

Scenario 1 - why would the Pups trade up to #1 to get Williams when they could stay at #2 and get him after we take Irving?

Also, didn't Byron Scott coach Chris Paul in Nawlins? Scott would love to get another Chris Paul type of point guard. He saw what adding a talented PG did for this team last year after the Baron Davis pickup. It changed the whole dynamic of the team. I think Scott would strenuously resist trading out of a spot where they could land Irving. And I believe the Cavs listen to Scott and take his opinion seriously.

If the Cavs take Irving and a center at #4 it leaves them with a surplus of talent at PF (Hickson, Jamison, and AV) and at PG (Irving, Davis, and Sessions) while having a real deficit of talent at the 2 and 3 positions. This might change depending on who they get at #4, but I could see Grant trying to package a deal involving some combination of Jamison, Sessions, Eyenga, and the trade exemption to bring in a quality 2 or 3. The #4 pick might come into play as well. He said he has a lot of flexibility so something could happen before the draft.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Wed May 18, 2011 11:06 am

Lloyd Christmas wrote:Hah wow Tony is so negative. Hating on anything exciting for the Cavs. We get it there is no one as good as LeBron in this draft. The next 50 drafts will be disappointing if thats the type of player youre waiting for.


Not negative....I am ecstatic for the Cavs. They needed the #1/#4 pick badly.

I'm just annoyed by all the interviews from the bar patrons calling this better than 2003. What a load of crap. Not even remotely comparable.

If there are only two good players in this draft....hopefully they are picked #1 and #4.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Wed May 18, 2011 12:27 pm

"If the Cavs take Irving and a center at #4 it leaves them with a surplus of talent at PF (Hickson, Jamison, and AV) and at PG (Irving, Davis, and Sessions) while having a real deficit of talent at the 2 and 3 positions. This might change depending on who they get at #4, but I could see Grant trying to package a deal involving some combination of Jamison, Sessions, Eyenga, and the trade exemption to bring in a quality 2 or 3. The #4 pick might come into play as well. He said he has a lot of flexibility so something could happen before the draft."

Iguodala was mentioned on here earlier although he has a big contract with 3 years left. Could see the Cavs use the TE on that if Phi threw in a future 1st rounder. Could also see them revisiting that Hamilton deal. There have been rumors about Rudy Gay being on the block but that doesnt really make sense.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed May 18, 2011 1:00 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Don't forget you still have Eyenga who's still young and developing at SF. Not saying he's the answer, but.


Eyenga is a 2-guard. He needs to add a lot of bulk to be able to truely handle the 3. Probably just a bench guy as well. But either way, Eyenga and Leonard could play at the same time...would actually be a decent 2-3 combo (should they both develop that is).
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby jellis » Wed May 18, 2011 7:29 pm

I might be crazy but when I see Irving, I see terrell brandon at his peak, but with a much better jumper. I am intrigued that Grant is saying they want to buy first rounder, and want to be active.

Minny is shopping pick 2, the Knicks are dying for Sessions. I wonder if you can trade Sessions and our second second for pick 16 and a pick down the road, this would have to be post draft as the knicks can't trade there pick this year. I am also curious if the Cavs could work a deal involving Andy and the 2nd pick, not sure the specifics, but it seems very unlikely as not a good fit in secondary pieces.

Another place I would like to Cavs to call is Philly, I am not a big OSU guy but I loved watching Turner, he is buried there, and wasn't even the player Collins wanted. I am not sure what you can do if you willing to trade back would it be worth it for Phi to want to move up, I don't see this, but once again the assest we have is Andy, or the trade exception. I think turner would floruish next to an Irving and getting actually minutes.

A lot of fun right now and if you believe grant they will be hyper active this season
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed May 18, 2011 7:47 pm

jellis wrote:I might be crazy but when I see Irving, I see terrell brandon at his peak, but with a much better jumper. I am intrigued that Grant is saying they want to buy first rounder, and want to be active.

Minny is shopping pick 2, the Knicks are dying for Sessions. I wonder if you can trade Sessions and our second second for pick 16 and a pick down the road, this would have to be post draft as the knicks can't trade there pick this year. I am also curious if the Cavs could work a deal involving Andy and the 2nd pick, not sure the specifics, but it seems very unlikely as not a good fit in secondary pieces.

Another place I would like to Cavs to call is Philly, I am not a big OSU guy but I loved watching Turner, he is buried there, and wasn't even the player Collins wanted. I am not sure what you can do if you willing to trade back would it be worth it for Phi to want to move up, I don't see this, but once again the assest we have is Andy, or the trade exception. I think turner would floruish next to an Irving and getting actually minutes.

A lot of fun right now and if you believe grant they will be hyper active this season


I think if anyone is moved on that Philly team, it'd be Iggy not Turner. And I'd personally take him with the Trade exception and something else.

Another trade possibility could be Rudy Gay. yeah the Griz owner has come out and said no way...but money could be an issue there this summer. Something to look into at least if you're the Cavs.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby jellis » Wed May 18, 2011 8:00 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
jellis wrote:I might be crazy but when I see Irving, I see terrell brandon at his peak, but with a much better jumper. I am intrigued that Grant is saying they want to buy first rounder, and want to be active.

Minny is shopping pick 2, the Knicks are dying for Sessions. I wonder if you can trade Sessions and our second second for pick 16 and a pick down the road, this would have to be post draft as the knicks can't trade there pick this year. I am also curious if the Cavs could work a deal involving Andy and the 2nd pick, not sure the specifics, but it seems very unlikely as not a good fit in secondary pieces.

Another place I would like to Cavs to call is Philly, I am not a big OSU guy but I loved watching Turner, he is buried there, and wasn't even the player Collins wanted. I am not sure what you can do if you willing to trade back would it be worth it for Phi to want to move up, I don't see this, but once again the assest we have is Andy, or the trade exception. I think turner would floruish next to an Irving and getting actually minutes.

A lot of fun right now and if you believe grant they will be hyper active this season


I think if anyone is moved on that Philly team, it'd be Iggy not Turner. And I'd personally take him with the Trade exception and something else.

Another trade possibility could be Rudy Gay. yeah the Griz owner has come out and said no way...but money could be an issue there this summer. Something to look into at least if you're the Cavs.



Iggy really closed well I dont think there is any chance they move him. There best player might be Young who they have to resign and dont forget Turner makes 4.5. I think he is movable, Collins is not a fan.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed May 18, 2011 8:06 pm

jellis wrote:Iggy really closed well I dont think there is any chance they move him. There best player might be Young who they have to resign and dont forget Turner makes 4.5. I think he is movable, Collins is not a fan.


Collins may not be a fan....but the owner cuts the checks, and Iggy makes way, way more than $4.5M. I don't think Iggy gets dealt this summer either, but seems way more likely than Turner. I don't think they give up on him this early (despite Collins' sentiments). But suppose you never know. i would definitely ask on him.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Wed May 18, 2011 8:10 pm

"this would have to be post draft as the knicks can't trade there pick this year"

What is the rule for trading picks? Cant 2 years in a row?

I think Sessions is too good to trade unless a bad team is willing to give up a future 1st rounder. Im not even sure if Brandon Knight who is supposed to go in the top 5 this year will be a better NBA player. 13pts-5ast-3reb-0.7stl-46%-82% in 26 min is pretty impressive. Wouldnt mind having 3 guards rotate that can all handle the ball
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:01 pm

Sources say Irving will go #1 and Jonas Valanciunas goes to Cavs at #4 even if Enes Kanter is still on the board. Also hearing Cavs trying to get a third lottery pick.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:57 pm

Irving and Valenciunas.. hmm.. I guess the Cavs could do worse..

TBH.. the Irving pick will probably be a very good one.. but, Derrick Williams has such a great game. He & Valenciunas could turn out to be the best two players in this draft.. If the Cavs can package either Andy Varejao or JJ with the trade exception.. then pick up either Kemba Walker or Jimmer Fredette.. that would make the total haul from this draft..

Derrick WIlliams, Jonas Valenciunas & Jimmer Fredette.. similar in some ways to the Harper Daugherty Hot Rod Williams draft from long ago...
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:44 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Irving and Valenciunas.. hmm.. I guess the Cavs could do worse..

TBH.. the Irving pick will probably be a very good one.. but, Derrick Williams has such a great game. He & Valenciunas could turn out to be the best two players in this draft.. If the Cavs can package either Andy Varejao or JJ with the trade exception.. then pick up either Kemba Walker or Jimmer Fredette.. that would make the total haul from this draft..

Derrick WIlliams, Jonas Valenciunas & Jimmer Fredette.. similar in some ways to the Harper Daugherty Hot Rod Williams draft from long ago...


Disagree. I'm not high on Kemba or Jimmer. Think both of them are bench players/6th men. Cavs need stars.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Edible14 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:15 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Irving and Valenciunas.. hmm.. I guess the Cavs could do worse..

TBH.. the Irving pick will probably be a very good one.. but, Derrick Williams has such a great game. He & Valenciunas could turn out to be the best two players in this draft.. If the Cavs can package either Andy Varejao or JJ with the trade exception.. then pick up either Kemba Walker or Jimmer Fredette.. that would make the total haul from this draft..

Derrick WIlliams, Jonas Valenciunas & Jimmer Fredette.. similar in some ways to the Harper Daugherty Hot Rod Williams draft from long ago...


The trade exception cannot be packaged with other players.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby theshow » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:21 pm

Come back to this post in 3 years and I promise you I will be right on all fronts

1. Kyrie Irving is far and away the class of this draft. He is a step above John Wall and a step below Derrick Rose.
2. Derrick Williams will be just another player in the NBA. There are probably 80 guys in that league who are better than him. It is just because he is unknown that he is so highly thought of. Michael Beasley is a talented guy who was really hyped up but he hasn't been that much in the league. That is how I think of him.
3. Jonas Valencianus is not the popular pick, but the right pick. Enes Canter will play in the league a long time and probably a quality starter, but with Valencianus you could end up with Pau Gasol in 3 years. I will not be excited tonight when Jonas' name is called, but deep down I will know we did the right thing.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:43 pm

theshow wrote:Come back to this post in 3 years and I promise you I will be right on all fronts

3. Jonas Valencianus is not the popular pick, but the right pick. Enes Canter will play in the league a long time and probably a quality starter, but with Valencianus you could end up with Pau Gasol in 3 years. I will not be excited tonight when Jonas' name is called, but deep down I will know we did the right thing.


Sorry but I disagree with you here. Jonas may or may not be a talented player down the road but the Cavs have to be relevant and competitive in the next season that is played, or they will be in a spot similar to 2000 - treading water and not able to improve themselves.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:39 pm

I dont think hes anything like Gasol but I do like him as a player. Seems more like Noah to me. No great moves but high energy and can play good D and get easy baskets.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:57 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:
theshow wrote:Come back to this post in 3 years and I promise you I will be right on all fronts

3. Jonas Valencianus is not the popular pick, but the right pick. Enes Canter will play in the league a long time and probably a quality starter, but with Valencianus you could end up with Pau Gasol in 3 years. I will not be excited tonight when Jonas' name is called, but deep down I will know we did the right thing.


Sorry but I disagree with you here. Jonas may or may not be a talented player down the road but the Cavs have to be relevant and competitive in the next season that is played, or they will be in a spot similar to 2000 - treading water and not able to improve themselves.


I disagree. If the Cavs finish deadlast in the NBA this next season (or near it), it'll be the best thing for them long-term. Their only prayer (and it's a long shot) to become a title contender is to hit in the draft and get at least 1 if not 2 stars there. Consensus is that there is no star in this draft (not even Irving).

Cavs would almost be better off IMO to take a guy like Jonas who won't play in the NBA next year. We have Varejao, Hickson, and Jamison (among others) who we can play at the 4/5. We need to get Jamison in there, get some value and hope to trade him. Hickson.....need to see if he is a guy to keep or move. I'm fine with our bigs for the next season.

Plus (and this is the biggest thing to me).....what happens if there's a prolonged lockout (as some are expecting)? Rookies will lose that developmental time....but not Jonas who would be playing in Europe.

Kanter....well if the Cavs truly feel he's the best player then take him (said a month ago and still don't think he'll be there at 4)....but don't take him because Jonas isn't going to be in the NBA for a year. Hell, Kanter didn't play this year...and may miss a month or more due to a lockout.


Bottom line is the Cavs need to look to the future...and the 2011-2012 season is not the future I'm talking about.

And let's not forget that the only team in the last 30 years to win a title that didn't come from a large market has been the Spurs....and they only drafted David Robinson at #1....despite the fact that they had to wait 2 years for him to get out of the military. They also took Manu (though late 2nd round)....who didn't come over right away. Not the end of the world when you're bad to take a guy who you may not see for a while.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:05 pm

If the Cavs are not relevant, they will not be bring in fans next year and therefore money will get tight.
I've written before that with the economic issues & declining population numbers, I doubt this geographic area (NE Ohio) can support 3 major league sports franchises. Whichever club is in 3rd, has a problem.

The Browns continue to hold the #1 slot for the fans money. Losing the guy from Akron opened it up for who will get the fans entertainment money in the 2 slot. With the Tribe going out and starting fast this year, showing some life and relevance (and having a solid minor development system), a non-competitive 2nd season from the Cavs will be devistating to their long term health.

People tend to forget that this Cavs club was thought to be fringe playoffs (@ 35 wins) before last season began and then all of the injuries happened. As Andy, Antwan & others return along with a solid player being taken with the 1st pick, the Cavs could be a low playoff seed already (with a glaring need or 2).

One last thing - let's say the Cavs miss the post-season and have a lottery selection (slight improvement to 4th worst record going into the lottery), do you really think Cleveland will be lucky enough to have another top 4 pick to get a great player in the next draft?? I wouldn't count on it.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:34 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:If the Cavs are not relevant, they will not be bring in fans next year and therefore money will get tight.
I've written before that with the economic issues & declining population numbers, I doubt this geographic area (NE Ohio) can support 3 major league sports franchises. Whichever club is in 3rd, has a problem.

The Browns continue to hold the #1 slot for the fans money. Losing the guy from Akron opened it up for who will get the fans entertainment money in the 2 slot. With the Tribe going out and starting fast this year, showing some life and relevance (and having a solid minor development system), a non-competitive 2nd season from the Cavs will be devistating to their long term health.

People tend to forget that this Cavs club was thought to be fringe playoffs (@ 35 wins) before last season began and then all of the injuries happened. As Andy, Antwan & others return along with a solid player being taken with the 1st pick, the Cavs could be a low playoff seed already (with a glaring need or 2).

One last thing - let's say the Cavs miss the post-season and have a lottery selection (slight improvement to 4th worst record going into the lottery), do you really think Cleveland will be lucky enough to have another top 4 pick to get a great player in the next draft?? I wouldn't count on it.


If you actually think there are 2 players in this draft that will get the Cavs to the playoffs or make them relevant....well I love your optimism but just can't see it. At best, Irving is a sideways move to Baron/Mo at the point. Long-term I like him but not as a rookie. And have have bigs.....so Kanter, while he would help (or Jonas) won't really add wins as a rookie, if anything it's a downgrade year one. We have zero NBA quality wingmen.....no way we sniff the playoffs til that is fixed.


As for your last part,let's say the Cavs have the 4th worst record as you said....worst case they pick 7th. The #7 pick in next year's draft is probably going to be a much better prospect than anyone on the board when the Cavs pick this year at 4 (and possibly better than Irving at 1). This draft is horrific. Maybe all the experts will be wrong, but I've never heard of a draft in any sport being dogged as bad as this draft.


I agree on your part about 3 teams (Cavs need to go really), but again you can't draft based on that especially with a lockout coming. And if the Cavs like Kanter best then take him....but not taking the best player on your board is idiotic no matter what the "economic" issue is. Look longterm no matter what. You won't win or be relevant if you start taking less talented players.



In any case....Cavs on the clock....
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:57 pm

Not a fan of Thompson at all.....but hopefully it works out. I'm hoping for a trade here.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:07 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Not a fan of Thompson at all.....but hopefully it works out. I'm hoping for a trade here.


Hope there's a trade too.. not high on him either. If we keep him, it also could mean JJ's days in Cleveland are numbered.
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:30 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Not a fan of Thompson at all.....but hopefully it works out. I'm hoping for a trade here.


Hope there's a trade too.. not high on him either. If we keep him, it also could mean JJ's days in Cleveland are numbered.


Yeah on paper our strongest 2 positions on the roster are the point and the 4....and we just drafted a point and a 4. Gotta be moves coming. Gee and Parker wouldn't start for some WNBA teams.....get us some wings!

Leonard falling.....can we still get a lottery pick? :clapping:
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Re: NBA Draft Lottery/Draft Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:25 pm

Leonard to Spurs.....frak
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