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2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Talk about the Cleveland Indians, Major League Baseball, and other sports.

Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:13 pm

There are some other guys out there who the Tribe could still be in on. I won't be too surprised honestly if the Tribe does go hard after Upton this offseason if he is not moved in the next few days. My understanding was the Tribe had talks with the Rays for Upton and deal was too include Rafael Perez and Lou Marson with a pair of prospects. Not sure who they were but believe Alex White was one name included by the Rays. Just rumors, but I could see it. Obviously it didn't happen but something we could see in the future.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GhostofTedCox » Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:49 pm

I didn't want to start another thread for this, but I was wondering if anybody had any regrets about how this season was managed from a front office point of view. I don't mean THE trade, and injuries happen.

But the pitching overall was excellent this season, from starters to the pen, There's no guarantee that it will be like this next season. But it's been so good, it emphasizes how bad the offense was/is.

Even a minor move for a bat like Fukudome helped. Imagine if we had been able to acquire a bigger impact bat before the deadline. That might have made a difference in 6 games just in the past month.

As long as we were all in for Ubaldo, maybe we could have also been all in money wise for a bat (C. Lee, Soriano).

That could have made the difference.









L
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby daingean » Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:56 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:I didn't want to start another thread for this, but I was wondering if anybody had any regrets about how this season was managed from a front office point of view. I don't mean THE trade, and injuries happen.

But the pitching overall was excellent this season, from starters to the pen, There's no guarantee that it will be like this next season. But it's been so good, it emphasizes how bad the offense was/is.

Even a minor move for a bat like Fukudome helped. Imagine if we had been able to acquire a bigger impact bat before the deadline. That might have made a difference in 6 games just in the past month.

As long as we were all in for Ubaldo, maybe we could have also been all in money wise for a bat (C. Lee, Soriano).

That could have made the difference.
L


Overall it would have been nice for another bat earlier in the season but I have no regrets really. This team has exceeded my expectations.

C.Lee is owed $37mil the next 2 years and Soriano is owed $72mill over the next 4 years. That would have set this team back by a lot. This team cannot afford to be strapped with that anchor around its financial neck.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby theshow » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:35 pm

I think a lot of the blame for this season can be placed squarely on Shin Soo Choo. He was the best hitter on the team going into the season, had hired Scott Boras to gear up for a $20-some million a year mega deal, and has been a complete bust. If Choo hits the way he was expected to hit, I think we are in first place. Also, Sizemore was a letdown, but that was to be expected with the injuries.

My question to the board: Is there any more room for growth with Matt LaPorta, or is he just a below average player?
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Magneticnorth451 » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:45 pm

theshow wrote:I think a lot of the blame for this season can be placed squarely on Shin Soo Choo. He was the best hitter on the team going into the season, had hired Scott Boras to gear up for a $20-some million a year mega deal, and has been a complete bust. If Choo hits the way he was expected to hit, I think we are in first place. Also, Sizemore was a letdown, but that was to be expected with the injuries.

My question to the board: Is there any more room for growth with Matt LaPorta, or is he just a below average player?


Choo got off to a slow start but seemed to be picking it up at the plate before Jonathan Sanchez destroyed his thumb. He was hitting very well since coming off the DL, but now is battling the dreaded oblique issue. His defense, minus the arm, seemed to be deteriorating for whatever reason. Odd routes on the ball a lot of the time.

Honestly, if we had a healthy Choo, Sizemore, Hafner, and Kipnis the Tigers would be looking up at us instead of the other way around.

Now for LaPorta, I'm not sure he's going to get much better. He just looks lost at the plate. He's got power, but it only comes when he guesses right. He's a notch above Duncan (swings and hopes he gets a fastball), but I can't see him being above average at 1B. I hope I'm wrong, obviously, but the Tribe needs to explore other options at 1st during the offseason.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:12 pm

Now for LaPorta, I'm not sure he's going to get much better. He just looks lost at the plate. He's got power, but it only comes when he guesses right. He's a notch above Duncan (swings and hopes he gets a fastball), but I can't see him being above average at 1B. I hope I'm wrong, obviously, but the Tribe needs to explore other options at 1st during the offseason.

Part of LaPorta's problem is playing time. He either is the 1b guy or he is not. It seems like he is the variable that keeps Santana in the lineup. While I think it is fine for Santana to move around - one of the prices for that is the development of LaPorta. My memory is that LaPorta was starting to roll when he sprained his ankle and in effect he has not recovered yet,

LaPorta's role is one of the off season decisions management has to make. Another one is just what the outfield is going to look like. Frankly, someone of Choo, Sizemore and Brantly have to go to make room for a right handed bat.

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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby ChadS17 » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:39 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:Now for LaPorta, I'm not sure he's going to get much better. He just looks lost at the plate. He's got power, but it only comes when he guesses right. He's a notch above Duncan (swings and hopes he gets a fastball), but I can't see him being above average at 1B. I hope I'm wrong, obviously, but the Tribe needs to explore other options at 1st during the offseason.

Part of LaPorta's problem is playing time. He either is the 1b guy or he is not. It seems like he is the variable that keeps Santana in the lineup. While I think it is fine for Santana to move around - one of the prices for that is the development of LaPorta. My memory is that LaPorta was starting to roll when he sprained his ankle and in effect he has not recovered yet,

LaPorta's role is one of the off season decisions management has to make. Another one is just what the outfield is going to look like. Frankly, someone of Choo, Sizemore and Brantly have to go to make room for a right handed bat.

Bob


JUST AN IDEA, but I'd consider moving Brantley for the right fit. That is a power hitting right handed outfielder. He's talented, obviously, but hopefully moreso than he has shown at the major league level. While above average, he doesn't impact the game with his speed or his defense really and hasn't proven to hit for a high average. He certainly has time to get better, but I really was not impressed with him this year. Not someone to openly shop, but not an untouchable by any means.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:03 am

ChadS17 wrote:
Bearcatbob wrote:Now for LaPorta, I'm not sure he's going to get much better. He just looks lost at the plate. He's got power, but it only comes when he guesses right. He's a notch above Duncan (swings and hopes he gets a fastball), but I can't see him being above average at 1B. I hope I'm wrong, obviously, but the Tribe needs to explore other options at 1st during the offseason.

Part of LaPorta's problem is playing time. He either is the 1b guy or he is not. It seems like he is the variable that keeps Santana in the lineup. While I think it is fine for Santana to move around - one of the prices for that is the development of LaPorta. My memory is that LaPorta was starting to roll when he sprained his ankle and in effect he has not recovered yet,

LaPorta's role is one of the off season decisions management has to make. Another one is just what the outfield is going to look like. Frankly, someone of Choo, Sizemore and Brantly have to go to make room for a right handed bat.

Bob


JUST AN IDEA, but I'd consider moving Brantley for the right fit. That is a power hitting right handed outfielder. He's talented, obviously, but hopefully moreso than he has shown at the major league level. While above average, he doesn't impact the game with his speed or his defense really and hasn't proven to hit for a high average. He certainly has time to get better, but I really was not impressed with him this year. Not someone to openly shop, but not an untouchable by any means.

Two thoughts Chad. Whether you liked him or not, Brantley was our most consistent offensive and defensive talent in the OF. Second, nobody is trading for a broken hamate until he has proven he can play again. Like Choo and Sizemore, none of these players is likely to bring anything significant in trade until they show some health and production IMO. :pleasantry:
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:12 am

When you look at the Indians outfield situation, you have to wonder.. Is this group going to be good enough to compete in 2012?

The Indians currently have 10 players on the forty man roster who's primary position is OF'er. That's quite a few. There are three who have not played with the Indians at all this year: Nick Weglarz, Trevor Crowe and Thomas Neal. Of the remaining seven, three, Shin-soo Choo, Michael Brantley, and Grady Sizemore, have spent some time to a considerably large amount of time on the DL. Jared Head and Zeke Carrera are both minor league players brought up to fill in the gaps.. Zeke has some helium as a pinch runner/defensive replacement/leadoff hitter, but has shown that he's not exactly fundamentally sound. Head is a AAAA OF'er that wouldn't get any PT save for injuries. Shelly Duncan is a career AAAA player and good pinch hitter on a good day. Only Kosuke Fukudome, a recent acquisition, has been healthy and productive.

With the current rostered players healthy, the Indians outfield of Brantley, Sizemore and Choo, is major league quality. All three are at least average to above average defensively..and can hit, some. This hasn't been the case for the past two seasons. Outfield is clearly a HUGE problem for the Indians going forward. Help from the minors isn't anywhere in sight unless you count the six or eight games Trevor Crowe has played in the Arizona League. The Indians have drafted a number of OF'ers over the past five years, none have become impact players on the ML level. There is hope that recent draftees Myles Bryson, Levon Washington, Tyler Holt may become more than minor league roster fodder, however, they are so young, it's difficult to determine what their future may become.

A trade for a ML OF'er is becoming a requirement, unless the Indians can somehow retain Kosuke Fukudome. It wouldn't be a horrible plan to go into the 2012 season with Brantley, Sizemore, Choo and Fukudome as the quartet of 'starting' OF'ers with Crowe as the backup. Both Shelly Duncan and/or Zeke Carrera may be part of the mix, as well.

In short..the OF is an area that needs to stay healthy for the Indians offense to be effective. Good luck with that..
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:41 am

I'm fine with Brantley, Sizemore, Choo and Fukudome next year with Crowe and Zeke in reserve. They would need to decline Grady's option and sign him to a new deal that is heavy on incentives. Fuku is 35 years old, plus he'll be a free agent if I'm not mistaken, but he's still playing at a fairly high level and he can play center field if Grady can't hold up. Also, he's left-handed and we need right-handed power. Neal is another option to buy time. Unfortunately, nobody in the upper levels of the farm system looks like much of a prospect unless you're still holding out hope for Weglarz.

The question is whether to make a major trade or stick with what they have and hope Choo has a normal year and Grady can stay healthy enough to make 400 plate appearances. They're running out of ammunition to make a major trade now that White and Pom are gone. Gomez, McAllister, and Phelps have gotten looks at the ML level and have not impressed. I'm not sure what players we still have on the farm that would be attractive to a team that's willing to move a quality ML bat.

Given that he have an above average infield offensively with ACab, Kipnis, Santana, and possbily Chiz, maybe the guys we have in the outfield now will be enough to have an above average offense.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:45 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:I didn't want to start another thread for this, but I was wondering if anybody had any regrets about how this season was managed from a front office point of view. I don't mean THE trade, and injuries happen.

But the pitching overall was excellent this season, from starters to the pen, There's no guarantee that it will be like this next season. But it's been so good, it emphasizes how bad the offense was/is.

Even a minor move for a bat like Fukudome helped. Imagine if we had been able to acquire a bigger impact bat before the deadline. That might have made a difference in 6 games just in the past month.

As long as we were all in for Ubaldo, maybe we could have also been all in money wise for a bat (C. Lee, Soriano).

That could have made the difference.


hmm...

Starters are ranked 10th in the AL...
The offense is ranked 9th in the AL...

I wouldn't say the starters have been "excellent" and the offense has been terrible...

I mean yeah the offense definitely needs a boost, but scoring is down not just in Cleveland but everywhere in the league this year. And yes, the starter pitching is ranked that low because of Talbot and Carmona/Carrasco's struggles at times. But the offense has had to deal with so many injuries that it's easier to name the guys not hurt.

Indians could have gone out and gotten a big, impact bat....but wouldn't have ended up with Ubaldo. How would the rotation look now without him? Tomlin is hurt, Carrasco is still hurt, Huff came back down to earth in Detroit...
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:54 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:Two thoughts Chad. Whether you liked him or not, Brantley was our most consistent offensive and defensive talent in the OF. Second, nobody is trading for a broken hamate until he has proven he can play again. Like Choo and Sizemore, none of these players is likely to bring anything significant in trade until they show some health and production IMO. :pleasantry:


hmm, suppose you could say he was the most consistent, only because he was on the team for the whole year (to this point), but his OBP by month and even his OPS weren't that consistent (OBP never was above .330 after April). Defensively...was consistent, though not sure that's a good thing.


As far as hamate bones; they are like tonsils, you don't need them. Guys come back very quickly and easily from these. Santana had his removed and hit what, 5 HRs in his first 6 minor league games last year? Griffey had his removed...hit 57 HRs the next year. Wolters this year, etc etc. It's not like a shoulder injury to a pitcher or even TJ. Don't see it affecting a trade offer.

What would affect a trade would be his terrible OBP from May 1st on (.302), his R/L splits, his lack of steals, his mediocre (at best) CF defense, the fact that he regressed from the 2nd half last year...

I'd send out feelers on Brantley's value (Nats could be interested), but until he proves he can hit at the ML level his value can't be that high. Struggled too much earlier in the year when healthy (his month of June was on par with Grady's).
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:30 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Two thoughts Chad. Whether you liked him or not, Brantley was our most consistent offensive and defensive talent in the OF. Second, nobody is trading for a broken hamate until he has proven he can play again. Like Choo and Sizemore, none of these players is likely to bring anything significant in trade until they show some health and production IMO. :pleasantry:


hmm, suppose you could say he was the most consistent, only because he was on the team for the whole year (to this point), but his OBP by month and even his OPS weren't that consistent (OBP never was above .330 after April). Defensively...was consistent, though not sure that's a good thing.


As far as hamate bones; they are like tonsils, you don't need them. Guys come back very quickly and easily from these. Santana had his removed and hit what, 5 HRs in his first 6 minor league games last year? Griffey had his removed...hit 57 HRs the next year. Wolters this year, etc etc. It's not like a shoulder injury to a pitcher or even TJ. Don't see it affecting a trade offer.

What would affect a trade would be his terrible OBP from May 1st on (.302), his R/L splits, his lack of steals, his mediocre (at best) CF defense, the fact that he regressed from the 2nd half last year...

I'd send out feelers on Brantley's value (Nats could be interested), but until he proves he can hit at the ML level his value can't be that high. Struggled too much earlier in the year when healthy (his month of June was on par with Grady's).

Don't forget to tell me about his UZR!!!! :lol:
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:45 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Two thoughts Chad. Whether you liked him or not, Brantley was our most consistent offensive and defensive talent in the OF. Second, nobody is trading for a broken hamate until he has proven he can play again. Like Choo and Sizemore, none of these players is likely to bring anything significant in trade until they show some health and production IMO. :pleasantry:


hmm, suppose you could say he was the most consistent, only because he was on the team for the whole year (to this point), but his OBP by month and even his OPS weren't that consistent (OBP never was above .330 after April). Defensively...was consistent, though not sure that's a good thing.


As far as hamate bones; they are like tonsils, you don't need them. Guys come back very quickly and easily from these. Santana had his removed and hit what, 5 HRs in his first 6 minor league games last year? Griffey had his removed...hit 57 HRs the next year. Wolters this year, etc etc. It's not like a shoulder injury to a pitcher or even TJ. Don't see it affecting a trade offer.

What would affect a trade would be his terrible OBP from May 1st on (.302), his R/L splits, his lack of steals, his mediocre (at best) CF defense, the fact that he regressed from the 2nd half last year...

I'd send out feelers on Brantley's value (Nats could be interested), but until he proves he can hit at the ML level his value can't be that high. Struggled too much earlier in the year when healthy (his month of June was on par with Grady's).

Don't forget to tell me about his UZR!!!! :lol:


Yeah I forgot, we should go by your defensive judgement. How's Hanny's defense again? :rolleyes:

FRAA, defensive runs saved....o and watching him play all show that Brantley is below average defensively in CF. But who cares, Ink says he's good so he must be! :rofl:
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:37 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Two thoughts Chad. Whether you liked him or not, Brantley was our most consistent offensive and defensive talent in the OF. Second, nobody is trading for a broken hamate until he has proven he can play again. Like Choo and Sizemore, none of these players is likely to bring anything significant in trade until they show some health and production IMO. :pleasantry:


hmm, suppose you could say he was the most consistent, only because he was on the team for the whole year (to this point), but his OBP by month and even his OPS weren't that consistent (OBP never was above .330 after April). Defensively...was consistent, though not sure that's a good thing.


As far as hamate bones; they are like tonsils, you don't need them. Guys come back very quickly and easily from these. Santana had his removed and hit what, 5 HRs in his first 6 minor league games last year? Griffey had his removed...hit 57 HRs the next year. Wolters this year, etc etc. It's not like a shoulder injury to a pitcher or even TJ. Don't see it affecting a trade offer.

What would affect a trade would be his terrible OBP from May 1st on (.302), his R/L splits, his lack of steals, his mediocre (at best) CF defense, the fact that he regressed from the 2nd half last year...

I'd send out feelers on Brantley's value (Nats could be interested), but until he proves he can hit at the ML level his value can't be that high. Struggled too much earlier in the year when healthy (his month of June was on par with Grady's).

Don't forget to tell me about his UZR!!!! :lol:


Yeah I forgot, we should go by your defensive judgement. How's Hanny's defense again? :rolleyes:

FRAA, defensive runs saved....o and watching him play all show that Brantley is below average defensively in CF. But who cares, Ink says he's good so he must be! :rofl:

Hannahan's defense is pretty good! Much better than the UZR challenged Asdrubal Cabrera that you told us can neither hit or field. I hear your scorekeeping has worked wonders for your girls slo-pitch softball team. But you work with what you have. :fool:
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:19 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Yeah I forgot, we should go by your defensive judgement. How's Hanny's defense again? :rolleyes:

FRAA, defensive runs saved....o and watching him play all show that Brantley is below average defensively in CF. But who cares, Ink says he's good so he must be! :rofl:

Hannahan's defense is pretty good! Much better than the UZR challenged Asdrubal Cabrera that you told us can neither hit or field. I hear your scorekeeping has worked wonders for your girls slo-pitch softball team. But you work with what you have. :fool:


Man, you seem to have a love affair with UZR. It's only 1 stat that shows Cabrera is poor defensively. Try using a few others (or try watching him play)...then get back to me, m'kay? :good: If I want to buy girl scout cookies, I'll come to you ink. Your ability to judge anyone's defense is on par with federal government's ability to balance a budget. And that's being generous towards you.

While we're on Cabrera...how many stolen bases does he have this year? 16 seems like a lot considering the almighty ink said he was slow and could never steal any bases :s_laughat i mean, I admit I did say multiple times he'd steal 20....he may fall just short, so my mistake on that one. But seem to recall him having 17 in 2008 (after you said he couldn't sniff 20)....in only 131 games.

As far as his bat....he's shown power...no ability to draw consistent walks though. Very much above average for his position offensively but in 250 more plate appearances....has 2 more walks than Hannahan (yikes). Have been very impressed with the power though as said. Admit, he surprised me there and did not see that coming at all. If you saw 20+ HRs coming from him, well kudos. His .280 average and .340 OBP though are good but not great (though average is overrated). WAR is 4th for AL shortstops and probably will end up 5th after Hardy passes him. Still solid though.

His exceeded my expectations offensively; I can admit, I sold him short...but really only on power (Side note: GSon actually called the 20 HR power a couple year ago, for what it's worth). Defensively he has improved from last year, being healthy and in shape has been a big lift for him. I'm not just on Cabrera to be on him, I like him overall as a player and have praised his baserunning for a while now. Think he can be a decent hitter too (looks like he could be more now). But I will point out his faults as well (defense and ability to walk). He still does not have very good range though for a SS. If you can't see that, then fine. Moving on.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Magneticnorth451 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:35 pm

LaPorta sent down to Columbus to make room for Gomez.

Can't say it's all that surprising. The guy looks lost at the Major League level.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:38 pm

Surprise # 1 !!

Matt LaPorta is optioned to AAA Columbus to make room for JeanMar Gomez..didn't see that one coming.. but it makes sense...

Surprise # 2 !!

Chris Antonetti was just on ABAO with Drennan and stated that Grady Sizemore will be back in 2012...

Surprise # 3 !!

Still on ABAO.. and this one was a complete shock..Chris Antonetti stated: "... at no time were there financial constraints imposed by ownership in pursuit of a player at the trading deadline. The issues that didn't permit a trade from happening included players exercising their no-trade or the GM and CA could agree on the value of the players to be traded..."

hmm.. interesting comments...
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:04 pm

Does the rosters expanding on Thursday waive the 10-day rule, or does it still apply?

If so, just a paper move it would seem.

Either way, it means LaPorta wouldn't be eligible for a post-season roster if we make it.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby criznit2009 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:06 pm

[quote="GeronimoSon"]Surprise # 1 !!

Matt LaPorta is optioned to AAA Columbus to make room for JeanMar Gomez..didn't see that one coming.. but it makes sense...

Surprise # 2 !!

Chris Antonetti was just on ABAO with Drennan and stated that Grady Sizemore will be back in 2012...
Surprise # 3 !!

Still on ABAO.. and this one was a complete shock..Chris Antonetti stated: "... at no time were there financial constraints imposed by ownership in pursuit of a player at the trading deadline. The issues that didn't permit a trade from happening included players exercising their no-trade or the GM and CA could agree on the value of the players to be traded..."



This is the only one that truly surprises me.... I would have to think that they have talked to Grady and decided on next years "new salary" after they decline his option... If they pick it up, they are.... well I dont want to say they are stupid but, if he is out next like this year and last year and the year before that - well you get the point......You don't normally sign players with chronic injuries (bargain hunting) so why would they exercise his option?
hmm..
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby El Em » Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:21 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:Does the rosters expanding on Thursday waive the 10-day rule, or does it still apply?

If so, just a paper move it would seem.

Either way, it means LaPorta wouldn't be eligible for a post-season roster if we make it.


In most scenarios LaPorta will be back in the relatively near future...but I like the move just for the potential "shock value" to both Matt and other players watching. LaPorta has not contributed very much, and quite frankly does not deserve the ML roster spot. I hope this sort of move will pay dividends in the future, but even if it does not, the Tribe is not losing much right now.

Also, if the Indains do make the playoffs, I believe an injury could still add LaPorta back into the mix. I'd welcome such choices!
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby indians1 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:07 pm

I wonder if Laporta's attitude is an issue. i know he hasn't played much, but when he got in the lineup the other day and committed the error on the double play ball because of lousy footwork, you just have to wonder if he has checked out.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:11 pm

Personally I think well see Choo sent to the DL and LaPorta brought right back.

As for Sizemore the Tribe could truly do with out him. There is the possibility that they have agreed to a new 'incentive' laden deal while Grady was recovering. I don't think CA is stupid enough to pickup that option.

I know others have suggested dropping Carmona's option before his recent solid streak. Don't think theres a chance that happens.
I've even suggested trading Carmona, with Tomlin and Carrasco both ailing and really not knowing which Carmona / Jimenez is going to show up I'd say it's best to keep them all. Hopefully Scott Barnes recovers qkly and forces his way into the rotation.
The Tribe still has depth in starting pitching but particularly in the bullpen. I won't be to shocked to see the Tribe pkg a bullpen arm or two and a cpl spare parts too, to get a RH bat.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:19 pm

The move of LaPorta appears to be a two fold message..

The first is pretty clear.. the Indians have at least three other players that can man the first base spot. Santana is the weakest defensively followed closely by Shelly Duncan. Jack Hannahan is a fantastic glove man, regardless of where he plays. The Indians have so many regulars not available, they had to make a move and 1B is the deepest. Why not move Shelly?.. because he can play OF. Why not move Tomlin to the 60 day DL or Choo? to the 15 day DL.. In Choo's case, despite reports that he's out for two weeks.. that's not what the Indians are saying.. Tomlin may be back late in the season.. It's unknown..

The second message is less clear, but may be construed as a clear message that the Indians are NOT AT ALL SATISFIED with Matt Laporta's production/progress and HE needs to review his contribution outside the bright lights of Major League Baseball. Translation: He's not good enough to be a ML 1B. That is a helluva slap in the face.

The question now becomes.. How will he respond?.. We shall see...

BTW.. You can anticipate that their will be "concern" raised over the return for CC..This is a media created pile of crapola and has nothing to do with what will happen going forward.. The return is what it is.. it can't be changed.. but that won't stop the dregs of the media from revisiting what 'should have been'...
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:30 pm

At first I too was shocked at the move to send down LaPorta...but it makes some sense. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have to be down 20 days for the option to "count"? If you dont' spend 20 days in the minors in a season then I thought you got full credit for the season and you keep your option. So if this is accurate, LaPorta won't burn an option.

And as someone said, don't think this eliminates LaPorta from the playoff roster necessarily either. There's an exception to that rule concerning the DL. Seem to recall in 2007 the Tribe promoting Brad Snyder and putting him on the ML DL for this very purpose. Have enough guys on the DL, so LaPorta could still be a playoff option.


Very interesting to see Acta make this move though.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Edible14 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:59 pm

Hermie13 wrote:And as someone said, don't think this eliminates LaPorta from the playoff roster necessarily either. There's an exception to that rule concerning the DL. Seem to recall in 2007 the Tribe promoting Brad Snyder and putting him on the ML DL for this very purpose. Have enough guys on the DL, so LaPorta could still be a playoff option.


That would have to be a new injury after the rosters are "set" on Sept 1st. The only people that can be added at that point are people who are already on the DL and players that replace players put on the DL after Sept 1. That's how I know the rule off the top of my head, though I'm sure somebody knows the rules better than I.

It's true LaPorta won't burn an option, but he won't be getting in on the playoffs unless someone else is placed on the DL.

Also, I'm somewhat curious as to why Crowe is back in AAA. I suppose they could count this as rehab time (though, what would his time in Arizona count as if that was the case?), but he's still not on the 40. Is he going to need to be added before season's end? That probably wouldn't be a huge deal (just transfer Hafner to the 60 day DL), I'm just curious.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:28 pm

Edible14 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:And as someone said, don't think this eliminates LaPorta from the playoff roster necessarily either. There's an exception to that rule concerning the DL. Seem to recall in 2007 the Tribe promoting Brad Snyder and putting him on the ML DL for this very purpose. Have enough guys on the DL, so LaPorta could still be a playoff option.


That would have to be a new injury after the rosters are "set" on Sept 1st. The only people that can be added at that point are people who are already on the DL and players that replace players put on the DL after Sept 1. That's how I know the rule off the top of my head, though I'm sure somebody knows the rules better than I.

It's true LaPorta won't burn an option, but he won't be getting in on the playoffs unless someone else is placed on the DL.

Also, I'm somewhat curious as to why Crowe is back in AAA. I suppose they could count this as rehab time (though, what would his time in Arizona count as if that was the case?), but he's still not on the 40. Is he going to need to be added before season's end? That probably wouldn't be a huge deal (just transfer Hafner to the 60 day DL), I'm just curious.


hmm, not saying you're wrong but wasn't Brad Snyder considered out for the year in 2007? Could have sworn he was added to the DL to allow a guy like Francisco the opportunity to possibly be added to the playoff roster if the Tribe wanted. But perhaps not....

Here's what I found:

If an eligible player is injured and unable to play a club can call up any player in the organization regardless of their roster status* provided that the replacement player plays the same position (position player for position player and pitcher for pitcher), the replacement player was in the organization as of the August 31st deadline and they finished the season in the organization, and they receive approval from the commissioner.

So...according to this, since we have Grady, Crowe, and others on the DL....we could still use LaPorta? Or would they have to be on the 25 man roster now then go on the DL (ie, Choo going on the DL in September)? I seem to recall a lot of discussion on this very topic 4 years ago....not sure if it was ever 100% resolved.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:57 pm

LaPorta has to spend at least 10 days in the minors.....unless a position player (Choo) goes on the DL here in the next few days which would allow the Indians to rescind the move. The rule still applies even though rosters expand on Sept 1. So unless someone is put on the DL, we won't see LaPorta for at least 10 days. Also, one note, no option is used on LaPorta if he is recalled within the next 20 days (he will be).
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:49 pm

TonyIPI wrote:LaPorta has to spend at least 10 days in the minors.....unless a position player (Choo) goes on the DL here in the next few days which would allow the Indians to rescind the move. The rule still applies even though rosters expand on Sept 1. So unless someone is put on the DL, we won't see LaPorta for at least 10 days. Also, one note, no option is used on LaPorta if he is recalled within the next 20 days (he will be).


Does the fact that the AAA regular season end before 20 days would be up have any effect on this? I'm assuming he would still need called up within 20 days regardless but so many exceptions to roster rules never know I guess...
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:42 am

Hermie13 wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:LaPorta has to spend at least 10 days in the minors.....unless a position player (Choo) goes on the DL here in the next few days which would allow the Indians to rescind the move. The rule still applies even though rosters expand on Sept 1. So unless someone is put on the DL, we won't see LaPorta for at least 10 days. Also, one note, no option is used on LaPorta if he is recalled within the next 20 days (he will be).


Does the fact that the AAA regular season end before 20 days would be up have any effect on this? I'm assuming he would still need called up within 20 days regardless but so many exceptions to roster rules never know I guess...


Yeah, just needs to be up within 20 days. Even though the season is ending for the minor league teams, the big league club can still just not activate a guy. So he just needs to be back up on or before Sept 18th which coincidentally the last possible playoff game for Columbus is Sept 17th.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:27 am

Hermie13 wrote:...... Correct me if I'm wrong....
I'm still waiting for the first chance !! :drinks:
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby El Em » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:15 am

Hermie13 wrote:
Edible14 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:And as someone said, don't think this eliminates LaPorta from the playoff roster necessarily either. There's an exception to that rule concerning the DL. Seem to recall in 2007 the Tribe promoting Brad Snyder and putting him on the ML DL for this very purpose. Have enough guys on the DL, so LaPorta could still be a playoff option.


That would have to be a new injury after the rosters are "set" on Sept 1st. The only people that can be added at that point are people who are already on the DL and players that replace players put on the DL after Sept 1. That's how I know the rule off the top of my head, though I'm sure somebody knows the rules better than I.

It's true LaPorta won't burn an option, but he won't be getting in on the playoffs unless someone else is placed on the DL.





Here's what I found:

If an eligible player is injured and unable to play a club can call up any player in the organization regardless of their roster status* provided that the replacement player plays the same position (position player for position player and pitcher for pitcher), the replacement player was in the organization as of the August 31st deadline and they finished the season in the organization, and they receive approval from the commissioner.

So...according to this, since we have Grady, Crowe, and others on the DL....we could still use LaPorta? Or would they have to be on the 25 man roster now then go on the DL (ie, Choo going on the DL in September)? I seem to recall a lot of discussion on this very topic 4 years ago....not sure if it was ever 100% resolved.


I expressed a similar belief earlier, now seeming affirmed by the above that if any player is injured on the "set", post Sept.1 roster, he can be replaced by any player (pitcher for pitcher/position player for position player) who was on the team/within organization prior to Sept. 1. There is a possibility LaPorta could still make a playoff roster, and I really look forward to the existence of such dilemmas! :pleasantry:

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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby BrianM » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:13 pm

Im part of a fantasy league on CBS and every week one of the writers posts a column titled 'by the numbers' and it involves the use of all the new stats like BABIP that I really know very little about, but a few Indians were involved this week so I thought I would share.

Why did these pitchers do so well?

Josh Tomlin, Cleveland: Tomlin (elbow) may be done for the season, but at least for now, he still ranks as one of the top 40 starting pitchers in both Head-to-Head and Rotisserie formats. He is one of only three pitchers (Kyle Lohse and Dillon Gee being the others) to land in or next to both of the "likely lucky" boxes, so there are reasons to question his viability for standard mixed leagues next season. Tomlin pitches to contact and, as he has done throughout his professional career, continues to serve up homers galore, so he needs to be proficient at preventing baserunners to have success. Owners can count on Tomlin to hand out few walks, but can they look to him to limit base hits? Tomlin's Fantasy relevance is owed largely to a .574 BABIP on line drives (the major league norm is around .720). No starting pitcher has maintained a rate below .600 in back-to-back seasons over the last four years. The odds of Tomlin repeating his success don't look good.

What went wrong for these pitchers?

Ubaldo Jimenez, Cleveland: Jimenez was actually featured in this column last season - - as one of the pitchers having a surprisingly good season. A year ago, I wrote that Jimenez would experience a dropoff unless he could jack up his ground ball rate. Not only has Jimenez failed to get more grounders, but he's actually dropped his rate by two percentage points. The modest downturn in ground ball rate only goes so far to explain Jimenez's demise, as he struggles to keep his ERA under 5.00. Unfavorable line drive and popup rates have played their role, but so has a 68 percent strand rate. It would be an upset if Jimenez didn't leave more runners on base next year, and that alone should get his ERA back below 4.00. Just don’t expect the ex-Rockie to improve all the way back to his 2010 levels.

http://13103265769.baseball.cbssports.com/news/15505570
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby ironmike » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:13 am

The win went to Frank Herrmann (4-0), who retired 12 straight in four perfect innings of relief. Jason Donald is hitting .286. Matt Laporta might have much more consistent success if he stops "feeling" for the ball and start staying behind the ball and trying to hit the ball hard up the middle of the field. Charlie could fix him.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:14 pm

Grady 3-3 with a double tonight thus far for Akron, playing centerfield...
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GhostofTedCox » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:09 pm

martyinnewyork wrote:Grady 3-3 with a double tonight thus far for Akron, playing centerfield...


If he went 3-3 tonight, I think we could see him in KC this weekend.
As much as it pains me to say this, Jerad Head has no place in a major league pennant race.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:13 pm

As a former backer of Karim Garcia and Jeff Lieffer... I forgive you...
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:12 am

martyinnewyork wrote:Grady 3-3 with a double tonight thus far for Akron, playing centerfield...
Akron travels to Harrisburg to finish the regular season. They have a "slim to no chance" of gaining entry into the AA playoffs, so it would not be a surprise to see Grady move his rehab to Columbus for a two day split weekend (the Clippers face the Toledo Mudhens, the Tigers AAA Affiliate) series. The first two games are in Columbus. The second two games will finish the regular season for the Clippers in Toledo.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby ironmike » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:16 am

The Indians have jewel in Jason Donald. The kid is a gamer and he plays the game the right way. Plus, he looks like a ball player. Has many of the characteristics and intangibles of an Ian Kinsler and Craig Biggio. Our infield depth, which is vitally important, looks to be excellent going into 2012. ACab will need more breathers next season so there still should be enough AB's for all involved in the infield. Right now, Hannahan deserves the 3B job going into next season.

Ezekial really needs to work on his drag bunting fundamentals. When and if he can improve them, he will find a place in MLB the way the game is being played today with emphasis on speed and defense. The Indians should hold onto him at least until he gets comfortable and has a chance to develop all his skill sets. When he does his value will go up.

Is that the same Constanza playing for the Atlanta Braves that played well at Columbus last year?
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:49 am

ironmike wrote:The Indians have jewel in Jason Donald. The kid is a gamer and he plays the game the right way. Plus, he looks like a ball player. Has many of the characteristics and intangibles of an Ian Kinsler and Craig Biggio. Our infield depth, which is vitally important, looks to be excellent going into 2012. ACab will need more breathers next season so there still should be enough AB's for all involved in the infield. Right now, Hannahan deserves the 3B job going into next season.

Ezekial really needs to work on his drag bunting fundamentals. When and if he can improve them, he will find a place in MLB the way the game is being played today with emphasis on speed and defense. The Indians should hold onto him at least until he gets comfortable and has a chance to develop all his skill sets. When he does his value will go up.

Is that the same Constanza playing for the Atlanta Braves that played well at Columbus last year?
Yep.. same Constanza.. has pushed uber-prospect Jason Heyward to the bench during his brief stay in the Atlanta outfield. Amazing what a change of scenery can do...

JD was originally slated for the starting lineup from the outset of the season at 3B. With the injury and emergence of Hooover Hannahan, that plan was put on hold. Donald was projected by the Phillies as a future 3B, however, it looks like their projections are a bit off.. Donald can play anywhere.. It wouldn't be a huge surprise to see the Indians send Donald to instructs for some time in the OF. He has a strong arm.. can really run.. and gets the bat on the ball...

Zeke the Streak is so reminiscent of a young Kenny Lofton.. he has the speed the left handed-ness and the ability to slap the ball to just about anywhere, including, once in a while, over the head of a cheating shallow OF'er. The bunting skills will need to be enhanced if Zeke intends to make that his best weapon... and he should.. Perhaps the Indians can get Zeke a personal tutor.. a guy like.. Kenny Lofton?.. :s_thumbsup
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby ironmike » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:17 pm

Offensive improvement needed going forward ... this team needs to walk more and cut down on strike outs. Doesn't matter what side of the plate they hit from, we need more professionalism from our hitters.

Strike outs DO matter.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GhostofTedCox » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:22 pm

The Indians claimed Jason Rice off waivers from the A's. The A's got him from the Red Sox last week. He seems to have had decent numbers in AAA. They put him on the 40 man by putting Carrasco on the 60 day DL.

But why would the Indians want to add yet another RP to an already deep part of the organization?
Maybe they will be losing a RP in the Jim Thome deal.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby daingean » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:23 am

GhostofTedCox wrote:The Indians claimed Jason Rice off waivers from the A's. The A's got him from the Red Sox last week. He seems to have had decent numbers in AAA. They put him on the 40 man by putting Carrasco on the 60 day DL.

But why would the Indians want to add yet another RP to an already deep part of the organization?
Maybe they will be losing a RP in the Jim Thome deal.


Or they just want a good look at options for next year. There is gonna be some pretty tough roster questions come this winter but they could trade some RP's for something useful.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:57 am

Jared Head dfa'd to give Trevor Crowe a spot on the 40 man roster.. Crowe has missed almost the entire season and was, at one time, well thought of as a potential LF'er or 4th OF'er. That ship has sailed. As a switch hitter.. he has been been neither overly effective from the left or right side of the plate. The Indians first overall pick (14th in the 2005 Draft) has not become the player envisioned when drafted out of Arizona.

The 2005 draft was a very shallow & mediocre collection of players after the first dozen picks. After Crowe was drafted, the few exceptions who have made a some headway or a statement at the ML Level include:

Florida, Christopher Volstad, rhp, Palm Beach Gardens HS, Fla.
Texas, John Mayberry, rf, Stanford
Oakland, Clifton Pennington, ss, Texas A&M
Boston (from Los Angeles Angels for Type A Orlando Cabrera), Jacob Ellsbury, cf, Oregon State
St. Louis (from Boston for Type A Edgar Renteria) , Colby Rasmus, cf, Russell County HS, Ala.

Sandwich Picks for Type A Players

Oakland (for Type A Damian Miller), Travis Buck, rf, Arizona State
Boston (for Type A Pedro Martinez), Clay Bucholz, rf, Angelina College, Texas
Boston (for Angel Cabrera), Jed Lowrie, 2b, Stanford
Baltimore (for failure to sign Wade Townsend), Garrett Olson, lhp, San Luis Obispo

Second Round

L.A. Dodgers, Ivan De Jesus, SS, American Military Academy, Guaynabo, P.R.
Cincinnati, Travis Wood, LHS, Bryant HS, Alexander, Ark.
Baltimore, Nolan Reimold, RF, Bowling Green
San Diego, Chase Headley, 3B, Tennessee
Minnesota, Kevin Slowey, RHS, Winthrop
Atlanta, Yunel Escobar, SS, NO SCHOOL, Miami.

Third Round

Arizona, Micah Owings, RHR, Tulane
Minnesota, Brian Duensing, LHS, Nebraska
Texas, Taylor Teagarden, C, Texas
Oakland, Vincent Mazzaro, RHS, Rutherford HS, Rutherford, N.J.
Cleveland, Jensen Lewis, RHS, Vanderbilt
Atlanta, Jordan Schafer, CF, Winter Haven HS, Haines City, Fla.
N.Y. Yankees, Brett Gardner, CF, College of Charleston

The net effect, 2005 had a few players, not many, made an impact on their teams. Almost all the ones that have truly become impactful at the ML level were drafted before Trevor Crowe was selected by the Indians as the 14th overall pick. It seems that Boston was the best club at getting impact players after Crowe was picked as any one of the three players they selected before the start of the 2nd round have contributed more than Trevor Crowe. The first 13 picks had the following "TOP TEN" and include:

Arizona, Justin Upton, ss, Great Bridge HS, Chesapeake, Va.
Kansas City, Alex Gordon, 3b, Nebraska
Washington, Ryan Zimmerman, 3b, Virginia
Milwaukee, Ryan Braun, 3b, Miami
Toronto, Ricardo Romero, lhp, CS Fullerton
Colorado, Troy Tulowitzki, ss, Long Beach
New York Mets, Michael Pelfrey, rhp, Wichita St
Detroit, Cameron Maybin, cf, T C Roberson HS, N.C.
Pittsburgh, Andrew McCutchen, cf, Fort Meade HS, Fla.
Cincinnati, Jay Bruce, cf, Westbrook HS, Texas

BTW....This move to DFA Jared Head is no more than a mediocre "meh"..
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby daingean » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:17 am

GeronimoSon wrote:Jared Head dfa'd to give Trevor Crowe a spot on the 40 man roster.. Crowe has missed almost the entire season and was, at one time, well thought of as a potential LF'er or 4th OF'er. That ship has sailed. As a switch hitter.. he has been been neither overly effective from the left or right side of the plate. The Indians first overall pick (14th in the 2005 Draft) has not become the player envisioned when drafted out of Arizona.


I think there is still some hope for Trevor. The Tribe tried to move him to 2B but that failed (unlike Kipnis). I don't think TC will really be an impact ballplayer but he is definitely serviceable. His 2010 season with a .251/.302/.333/.634 are not so bad when combined with his 20SB in 122 games. Can play any OF spot. With a real lack of guys in the upper levels of the minor leagues that can play RF. At least he could compete for a roster spot next season.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:14 pm

Will be interesting how Crowe is handled this winter. If you pick up Sizemore's option may run into a roster crunch with Duncan and Crowe. Duncan does give you a RH bat/pinch hitter and can play 1B. Crowe though brings speed and better defense in LF. Guy did steal 20 bases last year as mentioned. Then again, Carrera has shown he could do that with enough playing time too. Hard letting a 1st round pick go, but may be time this winter to cut ties.

Like the move for the rest of the year though. Glad Head got a shot, but Crowe brings more speed/better defense in the corners. Better team today than yesterday (though by a small margin).
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:58 pm

We need two freaking right-handed thumpers...

Can this team go out and get them?

The answer may depress me...
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:00 pm

martyinnewyork wrote:We need two freaking right-handed thumpers...

Can this team go out and get them?

The answer may depress me...


Get "them" as in buy them on the FA market?.. :search:

Or trade for "them".. :search:

BTW.. who is 'them'?.. :s_dunno
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:31 pm

I don't know who is "them" and won't spend hours coming up with hypothetical roster moves. I do know that there are baseball players who bat right-handed, and that several of them are better than what we currently possess. The means of converting any of them into Cleveland Indians is up to our front office. All I know is that they need to get some quality right-handed hitting into this line-up. I don't care whether it is by trade, free-agent signing, adoption or cloning.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:34 pm

It's the Shelley Duncan show in Texas.... 3 straight great plays at the wall!

That's brilliant.
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