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2011 Indians Organizational Ranking and Report - RH Pitchers

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

2011 Indians Organizational Ranking and Report - RH Pitchers

Postby osueddy » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:58 pm

This is my last report ranking the Indians prospects at each position and an overall report on the position. I'll be using the same rules as Tony concerning eligibility for prospects (50 IP, 130 AB, and played stateside). The age next to the players name is for next season using the July 1 cut-off date.

Right Handed Pitchers Not Eligible: Fausto Carmona, Justin Masterson, Mitch Talbot, Joe Smith, Jensen Lewis, Chris Perez, Anthony Reyes, Carlos Carrasco, Justin Germano, Josh Tomlin, Jeanmar Gomez, Joe Martinez

Prospect Ranking (Right Handed Pitchers):
1.) Jason Knapp (20)
2.) Alex White (22)
3.) Joe Gardner (23)
4.) Rob Bryson (23)
5.) Bryce Stowell (24)
6.) Austin Adams (24)
7.) Vinnie Pestano (26)
8.) Josh Judy (25)
9.) Corey Kluber (25)
10.) Hector Rondon (23)
11.) Bryan Price (24)
12.) Clayton Cook (20)
13.) Alexander Perez (21)
14.) Frank Herrmann (27)
15.) Chen-Chang Lee (24)

There are so many pitching options and depth among relievers that it's difficult to compile a list without changing it over and over again. After typing this, I'm not sure that I'm happy with my own rankings.

The Indians and Ross Atkins must be pretty excited about the amount of pitching depth that they have assembled. The real answer to if our trades have been successful will be if these pitchers develop into solid major leaguers and not just minor league depth. I've got Knapp ahead of White just because of his amazing strikeout rate. He'll be 20 this year at Kinston and hopefully fully recovered from injury and ready to get to Akron soon. He struck out 47 in just 28.1 innings last year. White was solid and steady last year and he looks like a middle of the rotation starter at the major league level. Joe Gardner had a great season last year and looks like a great 3rd round pick (142/62 K/BB). I'm higher on Bryson than most, but he looks like a power reliever (80 K in 53.1 IP) that would be nice to have in the bullpen soon other than guys like Joe Smith and Jensen Lewis. Bryce Stowell's season last year was a lot like Matt Packer's. Unbelievable numbers (102/36 K/BB in 67.1 IP) that weren't expected and a quick rise through the system. It's very exciting to think about Chris Perez and prospects like Judy, Stowell, Todd, Pestano, Bryson, Lee, Bryce, and Burns battling for those few spots in the bullpen in 2012 and '13. Throw in guys like Hagadone and Knapp that could be relievers and I'm dreaming of a bullpen that ends the game if our starter makes it through six innings with the lead.

Didn't Make the Cut:
Kyle Blair (22)
Jess Todd (25)
Zach Putnam (23)
Cory Burns (23)
Trey Haley (21)
Adam Miller (26)
Paolo Espino (24)
Zach McAllister (23)
Tyler Sturdevant (25)
Brett Brach (23)
Preston Guilmet (23)
Marty Popham (23)
Yohan Pino (27)
Felix Sterling (18)
Matt Langwell (25)
Robbie Aviles (19)
Ramon Cespedes (20)
Joey Mahalic (22)
Cole Cook (22)
Brian Grening (26)
Takafumi Nakamura (23)
Danny Salazar (21)
Michael Goodnight (22)
Connor Graham (25)
Antwonie Hubbard (22)
Jordan Cooper (22)
David Roberts (24)
Carlton Smith (25)
Ryan Gardner (22)
James Ehlert (23)
Nick Sarianides (21)
Alex Kaminsky (23)
Owen Dew (22)
Nathan Striz (22)
Anthony Dischler (22)
Jeremy Johnson (24)
Travis Turek (23)
Steven Wright (26)
Dale Dickerson (24)
Alexander Morales (21)
Kyle Smith (23)
Andrew Shive (25)
Matthew Speake (24)
Casey Gaynor (24)
John Goryl (25)
Luis Encarnacion (19)
Orlando Pereira (19)
Joseph Colon (21)
Fernando Flores (20)
Jose Lopez (20)
Enriquez Pacheco (21)
Rafael Homblert (19)


Future Prospects From the DSL Team:
Oswell Munoz (20): 3-2, 1.86 - 72.2 IP, 73 K/6 BB
Enosil Tejeda (22): 7-3, 1.76 - 71.2 IP, 78 K/15 BB
Moisses Ramirez (21): 26 GP, 2-4, 1.26 - 35.2 IP, 35 K/8 BB 14 saves

Orgizational Report:
Cleveland - Carmona / Masterson / Talbot / Carrasco / J. Smith / Lewis / Herrmann / C. Perez
Columbus - Tomlin / Gomez / McAllister / White / Kluber / Espino / Judy / Stowell / Putnam / Todd / Pestano
Akron - Gardner / Adams / Bryson / Lee / Graham / Price / Burns
Kinston - Knapp / Brach / Sturdevant / Popham / Toru Murata / Langwell / Guilmet
Lake County - Cl. Cook / Haley / Blair / Dischler / Dew / Sarianides / Goodnight / Nakamura / Ehlert / Cespedes
Extended Spring Training - Too many names worth listing
Cut? - Pino / C. Smith / Wright / Germano / Reyes / Grening / Mahalic / Roberts / Turek / Shive / Hubbard / Johnson / Goryl / Dickerson

The top 4 in the Indians rotation is set and a battle for the 5th spot and the long reliever will be interesting. The bullpen is set as well though Herrmann could be pressured in spring training.

If Tomlin doesn't make the Tribe roster, he and Gomez will form a solid rotation with McAllister, Kluber, and Alex White. That leaves pitchers like Espino and Pino fighting for a long relief spot (not to mention Hector Rondon being out for the season). Judy, Stowell, Putnam, Todd, and Pestano will form a strong Columbus pen with many of them that could pitch for a few major league clubs already. Carlton Smith and Steven Wright can't make this roster with the progression of some of the youngsters. The big question here is what if Adam Miller is throwing well, who would get forced out?

Gardner will be in the starting rotation at Akron that will be heavily left-handed (Barnes, De La Cruz, Packer, Hagadone). Adams and McFarland can spot start and relieve with Bryson, Lee, Price, and Burns. I think that Connor Graham can hang on unless the Indians want the new signee Murata in AA. This would leave Grening and Mahalic without a spot.

Knapp and Brach will join lefties Pomeranz, House, and Soto to form a rotation that will be fun to watch in the Indians last year in Kinston. Sturdevant and Popham pitched well enough last year to join Guilmet in the Kinston pen. Matt Langwell will be a fringe guy here and I believe Murata starts his American career in high-A. This would leave few options for pitchers like Roberts, Turek, and Shive. Good prospects Alexander Perez and Danny Salazar are injured to start the season or more surprising cuts would have to happen.

Clayton Cook, Haley, Kyle Blair will start for Lake County with Rayl, Dischler, and maybe Owen Dew working for the other spots. The bullpen battle here should be tough with Sarianides, Goodnight, Nakamura, Ehlert, and Cespedes working with Nick Kirk. Pitchers Jeremy Johnson and Dale Dickerson may be done this spring training.

There is enough pitching depth that tough choices will have to be made if there are no injuries. The Indians may be cutting players this year that in past years could have hung on with the organization. Imagine if Rondon was not injured the kind of tough choices that would have to made at Columbus. We can dream of a rotation of Carmona, Carrasco, Pomeranz, White, and Gardner some day soon. In saying that list, it doesn't even take into account Masterson, Rondon, Kluber, Hagadone, Packer, De La Cruz, Barnes, and Knapp. With this much depth, some of it has to work for Cleveland fans because we deserve it. These pitchers should set us up for that playoff push in '12 and '13 and hopefully for years to come. As an Indians fan, you have to be excited the direction that the front office went in making this happen even if it cost us some of our top players.
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Re: 2011 Indians Organizational Ranking and Report - RH Pitc

Postby Edible14 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:49 am

I've noticed on your list (and seemingly everybody's posted prospect list) that Rondon has been given a pretty substantial markdown. I just think that his ceiling of a potential #2/3 guy is still there, and that should probably put him ahead of guys like Kluber, Adams, Pestano and Judy at least. I mean, the injury will slow his development a bit, but I don't understand marking the guy down so much. If he didn't get hurt, I'd argue that he'd probably be the #3 guy on this list.
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Re: 2011 Indians Organizational Ranking and Report - RH Pitc

Postby daingean » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:04 am

Edible14 wrote:I've noticed on your list (and seemingly everybody's posted prospect list) that Rondon has been given a pretty substantial markdown. I just think that his ceiling of a potential #2/3 guy is still there, and that should probably put him ahead of guys like Kluber, Adams, Pestano and Judy at least. I mean, the injury will slow his development a bit, but I don't understand marking the guy down so much. If he didn't get hurt, I'd argue that he'd probably be the #3 guy on this list.


I am with you on that Edible....TJ surgery no longer scares me with guys because pitchers come out of it with a good success rate. One thing to caution on that is command is the last thing to come. On the other hand, Knapp had shoulder surgery (which scares me alot) and I would want to see him withstand the rigors of a full season (120-150 IP) before I put him ahead of guys like White. Just my opinion though.
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Re: 2011 Indians Organizational Ranking and Report - RH Pitc

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:58 am

Edible14 wrote:I've noticed on your list (and seemingly everybody's posted prospect list) that Rondon has been given a pretty substantial markdown. I just think that his ceiling of a potential #2/3 guy is still there, and that should probably put him ahead of guys like Kluber, Adams, Pestano and Judy at least. I mean, the injury will slow his development a bit, but I don't understand marking the guy down so much. If he didn't get hurt, I'd argue that he'd probably be the #3 guy on this list.


Agreed. He is still Top 20-25 in my book.
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Re: 2011 Indians Organizational Ranking and Report - RH Pitc

Postby gotribe31 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:50 pm

TonyIPI wrote:
Edible14 wrote:I've noticed on your list (and seemingly everybody's posted prospect list) that Rondon has been given a pretty substantial markdown. I just think that his ceiling of a potential #2/3 guy is still there, and that should probably put him ahead of guys like Kluber, Adams, Pestano and Judy at least. I mean, the injury will slow his development a bit, but I don't understand marking the guy down so much. If he didn't get hurt, I'd argue that he'd probably be the #3 guy on this list.


Agreed. He is still Top 20-25 in my book.


I guess I'm in the minority on Rondon, but I think he's a bullpen arm (albeit a good one). TJ surgery or no, he still only has two pitches.
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Re: 2011 Indians Organizational Ranking and Report - RH Pitc

Postby jellis » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:42 pm

TonyIPI wrote:
Edible14 wrote:I've noticed on your list (and seemingly everybody's posted prospect list) that Rondon has been given a pretty substantial markdown. I just think that his ceiling of a potential #2/3 guy is still there, and that should probably put him ahead of guys like Kluber, Adams, Pestano and Judy at least. I mean, the injury will slow his development a bit, but I don't understand marking the guy down so much. If he didn't get hurt, I'd argue that he'd probably be the #3 guy on this list.


Agreed. He is still Top 20-25 in my book.



I also agree, I still had him in the teens, injuries suck but the guy was a top 100 spec in all of baseball a year ago
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Re: 2011 Indians Organizational Ranking and Report - RH Pitc

Postby osueddy » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:13 pm

Despite the fact that he is 10th on this RH pitching list, he is still #22 on my overall ranking. I just didn't want him too high since he really won't be playing this year and others will have this season to continue to develop, improve, and impress the Indians.
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Re: 2011 Indians Organizational Ranking and Report - RH Pitc

Postby elrod enchilada » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:49 am

If history is any guide, almost certainly one or two or three players from the long list who did not make the top 15 will be in the top 15 a year from now. Who has the best bet the join the inner circle?

One obvious selection is Kyle Blair. Seems like Tony Dischler is another. I'd be interested to know you folks think we should be keeping our eyes on; guys who might break out as serious prospects in 2011.
Last edited by elrod enchilada on Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2011 Indians Organizational Ranking and Report - RH Pitc

Postby indianinkslinger » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:26 pm

elrod enchilada wrote:If history is any guide, almost certainly one or two or three players from the long list who did not make the top 15 will be in the top 15 a year from now. Who has the best bet the join the inner circle?

One obvious selection is Kyle Blair. Seems like Tony Dischler is another. I'd be interested to knwo you folks think we should be keeping our eyes on; guys who might break out as serious prospects in 2011.

You do pose interesting questions, ee. Blair and Putnam are in my top 20 already and I would still expect both to qualify next year so that is easy. Further down my list is Trey Haley. Since his problems are largely the result of temperament and mechanics, he might "grow up" at any time. I certainly did not rank him in my top 30 because of his stats. I don't know any more about Adam Miller than the teams who passed on him in the draft. You mentioned Dischler who will certainly be qualified next year but to reach this list, I prefer Mike Goodnight. I haven't seen a lot of either to tell anyone specifics but I am just more comfortable with his mechanics at this time.

This is one list where my rankings differ considerably from eddy. Just a fact and not criticism. The truth is that you can throw a blanket over 25 RHP prospects who fall in the zone of above average but not premium prospects and ranking is based more on individual preferences than anything real concrete. My hat is off to eddy for even attempting this exercise and one fine job putting these lists together. :good:
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Re: 2011 Indians Organizational Ranking and Report - RH Pitc

Postby osueddy » Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:04 am

indianinkslinger wrote:
elrod enchilada wrote:If history is any guide, almost certainly one or two or three players from the long list who did not make the top 15 will be in the top 15 a year from now. Who has the best bet the join the inner circle?

One obvious selection is Kyle Blair. Seems like Tony Dischler is another. I'd be interested to knwo you folks think we should be keeping our eyes on; guys who might break out as serious prospects in 2011.

You do pose interesting questions, ee. Blair and Putnam are in my top 20 already and I would still expect both to qualify next year so that is easy. Further down my list is Trey Haley. Since his problems are largely the result of temperament and mechanics, he might "grow up" at any time. I certainly did not rank him in my top 30 because of his stats. I don't know any more about Adam Miller than the teams who passed on him in the draft. You mentioned Dischler who will certainly be qualified next year but to reach this list, I prefer Mike Goodnight. I haven't seen a lot of either to tell anyone specifics but I am just more comfortable with his mechanics at this time.

This is one list where my rankings differ considerably from eddy. Just a fact and not criticism. The truth is that you can throw a blanket over 25 RHP prospects who fall in the zone of above average but not premium prospects and ranking is based more on individual preferences than anything real concrete. My hat is off to eddy for even attempting this exercise and one fine job putting these lists together. :good:


Thanks indianinkslinger. The RH pitchers were the toughest list, and I changed it often. It's also hard when I've watched a few players often and some others I've never seen. It was a lot of fun doing these lists as sometimes I think my favorite part to the minor league season is guessing where players will go before the season starts to see if my guesses are comparable to the final results.
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