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Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

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Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby criznit2009 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:08 am

Simple yes/no question. i say:
YES.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby TonyIBI » Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:32 am

Too early for me to make a guess....will be an emotional guess right now.

I'm going to say.....no.

He'll spark lots of interest because of his name, but I think it is 70-30 that he doesn't get picked. A lack of any scouting info, his questionable medical, and more are enough to scare teams away I think. I mean, scouts don't even know how good the fastball is anymore or if the slider is still there because they haven't seen him pitch in two and a half years. Teams rely on their scouts for decisions like this, and with the lack of any real info, I dunno. The team with all the info here is the Indians.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby toledobuck » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:13 am

I would say the prospect most likely taken in the rule 5 is Jose Constanza. His position is not one that is most readily taken in the rule 5 but he definitely has the talent to be a good 4th OF on any major league team. I would still put the odds of A Miller being taken at 50/50 right now. I think the Tribe does not believe that Miller will ever be free of health issues and they did not want to waste a roster spot for somebody who likely will never be healthy enough to consistently contribute to the major league team. With the Tribe's 3B situation Goedert makes tremendous sense. The Tribe has maneuvered the rule 5 draft very well the last several years so lets hope their success continues.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:19 am

Constanza is a minor league free agent.

Why would anyone draft him in Rule 5 when they can just wait until after the draft and sign him to a minor league deal without having to worry about keeping him on the 25-man roster all year?
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:03 pm

.. draft him in Rule 5 when they can just wait ...
Adam Miller did sign a ML FA contract a couple weeks past..it's only if he gets taken in the Rule V draft that someone can take him, but the team taking him has to pay him as they would a Major League player..

That said..there is more of a chance Adam Miller gets picked.. and is almost immediately returned.. for some consideration on the Indians part..
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:08 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
.. draft him in Rule 5 when they can just wait ...
Adam Miller did sign a ML FA contract a couple weeks past..it's only if he gets taken in the Rule V draft that someone can take him, but the team taking him has to pay him as they would a Major League player..

That said..there is more of a chance Adam Miller gets picked.. and is almost immediately returned.. for some consideration on the Indians part..


I was refering to Constanza in response to Toldeobuck's post that he was the most likely to be selected.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby GhostofTedCox » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:49 pm

Take it to the bank that Miller gets drafted.
I'm starting to think that the Indians left him exposed in order to make a quick $50K, which in the Indians world is a big deal.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby A.Zajac » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:58 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:Take it to the bank that Miller gets drafted.
I'm starting to think that the Indians left him exposed in order to make a quick $50K, which in the Indians world is a big deal.


This is the most idiotic post I've read since Dennis was banned.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby MadThinker88 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:17 pm

Put me in the camp saying tht Miller gets selected during the Rule 5.

As for him coming back or not, I think it is more a matter of which team selects/ acquires him. A club like the Yanks or RedSox (or other deep pocket club) could easily pay the 50k selection cost and then spend another 400k waiting to see how healthy/ effective he is.

If the Tribe front office is looking at the Miller selection as an easy way to pick up 50k (as suggested by GhostofTedCox), then I highly doubt they would fork over the 25k to bring Miller back.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby danh8 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:21 pm

criznit2009 wrote:Simple yes/no question. i say:
YES.


We're talking a 50k gamble. He will definitely be picked up and his tires will be kicked. A player with his upside that
is obviously this close in rehab to be in a game in Arizona ...he'll be taken. If the Indians were going to expose him they
never should have put him in a real game in 'Zona.

He'll be taken, and I'll bet it's by Seattle, Boston, or NY.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby GhostofTedCox » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:26 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
GhostofTedCox wrote:Take it to the bank that Miller gets drafted.
I'm starting to think that the Indians left him exposed in order to make a quick $50K, which in the Indians world is a big deal.


This is the most idiotic post I've read since Dennis was banned.


I admit that's a stretch. But the chances that Miller gets picked are high. The chance that McAllister would have got picked are slim.
Remember, the number of teams with worse attendance in 2010 MLB were - ZERO.
I still think that's why they traded Cliff Lee 2 years before FA. They have no money.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby A.Zajac » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:36 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:
GhostofTedCox wrote:Take it to the bank that Miller gets drafted.
I'm starting to think that the Indians left him exposed in order to make a quick $50K, which in the Indians world is a big deal.


This is the most idiotic post I've read since Dennis was banned.


I admit that's a stretch. But the chances that Miller gets picked are high. The chance that McAllister would have got picked are slim.
Remember, the number of teams with worse attendance in 2010 MLB were - ZERO.
I still think that's why they traded Cliff Lee 2 years before FA. They have no money.


I agree, IMO, there's a high probability that Miller gets picked. However, that doesn't mean he'll stick with that particular team. The non-rostering of Miller has nothing to do with money, what so ever.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby indianinkslinger » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:51 pm

Tony said it all IMO. The Indians know Miller best. Never mind that another RH reliever was a lock, I cannot imagine the Indians let Germano or Duncan stand in the way of keeping Miller if they really felt he was 40 material. It looks to me like last year when we were all rooting for another underdog, Lofgren. There is no shortage of good RH relief prospects in the Indians organization and the Indians probably judged that Miller would not impact the pecking order. Not sure why anyone upset about keeping McAllister. Doesn't look to me like Miller impacted the decision at all. Looks like the Indians decided he was borderline but likely to be more valuable than anyone that woud be available in the draft. They could be right but he has a lot to prove if he is wants to leap the other RH starter prospects.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:28 pm

...but he has a lot to prove if he is wants to leap the other RH starter prospects...
Yes.. he has a lot to prove.. and has come a long way.. from can't miss top of the rotation # 1 pick.. to virtually out of baseball.. to possible reliever.. Adam Miller has been all over the map w/r to his career with the Indians. As it's been stated by more than a few.. it would be nice to see Miller get a break.. have a window where he remains healthy and fulfills his dream of becoming a major league pitcher..

The key information will be the medical stuff..it seems to me that his latest attempts to pitch were as positive as it's been in quite some time.. but still.. not out of the woods w/r to being fully healthy and being ready to go..
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby theshow » Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:22 pm

This really hurts...



Why wouldn't you just roster Adam Miller? Why wouldn't you pick him if you were another team? I would. Has superstar potential and worst case you lose $50K
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby Chiefroy » Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:31 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
...but he has a lot to prove if he is wants to leap the other RH starter prospects...
Yes.. he has a lot to prove.. and has come a long way.. from can't miss top of the rotation # 1 pick.. to virtually out of baseball.. to possible reliever.. Adam Miller has been all over the map w/r to his career with the Indians. As it's been stated by more than a few.. it would be nice to see Miller get a break.. have a window where he remains healthy and fulfills his dream of becoming a major league pitcher..

The key information will be the medical stuff..it seems to me that his latest attempts to pitch were as positive as it's been in quite some time.. but still.. not out of the woods w/r to being fully healthy and being ready to go..


I believe the slinger quote was regarding McAllister, not Miller and I agree that he has a lot to prove. But I expected and agree with the decision to roster him. I mean, why even select him from the Yankees knowing that he would need to be rostered, if we didn't plan on rostering him? I think we got great value in exchange for Kearns and I think McAllister has a real shot to pitch in Cleveland in 2011, perhaps even earning a rotation spot right out of spring training.

The possibility of losing Miller is a gamble I'm not happy about, but I have to trust the brass on this one. Personally, I would have cut Germano.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby npc29 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:14 pm

theshow wrote: Why wouldn't you pick him if you were another team?


Because he's damaged goods. I think all of us here want to see Adam Miller succeed and would have loved to see him rostered (probably because it would be the Indians confirming he is healthy) but there are plenty of reasons why a team wouldn't want any part of Miller. Like Tony has been saying, there is little to no info out there on this guy as he is now. He is probably a totally different pitcher than he was two-three years ago and that alone is enough to scare some teams off.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:07 am

The reaction to Miller's non-roster is a very emotional one. We all want him to succeed here, and what a hell of a story it would be if he ever does.

But emotions often cloud our judgement.

I've been talking to some baseball people for other orgs for frank opinions on Miller and if he truly will get interest in Rule 5. According to the scouts and executives I talked to today, they almost all in unison said that (and I paraphrase) "Yeah, he's a name, so he'll stir interest just based on that." But....."when you get down to it, there is absolutely no info on this guy for 2.5 years now, and in the scouting community you don't make decisions based on reports from 3-4 years ago. We have no idea what kind of pitcher he is now." And, the kicker..."plus the medical is a big red flag. No one knows how healthy he truly is."

The Indians have all the info here. The other 29 teams have about as much info as you and I, 'tis why I have been getting calls, texts and emails from these people looking for any info they can find. The questionable health and lack of "looks" are huge negatives for teams to select him in Rule 5.

Of course, as we know, it only takes one.

I still say that it is more unlikely Miller is selected. He sure may be selected, but I'd favor that he ends up not being selected.

We'll see!
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby petes999 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:00 am

TonyIPI wrote:Of course, as we know, it only takes one.


That one maybe Neal Huntington.... They have plenty of room on their 40 man with just non-tendering 3 players. He knows Adam and they are known to spend $$$s on talent.

The only thing that will keep people away in my opinion for $50,000 is the belief that he is still injured (so I am curious what the most recent Dr. note is after pitching in instructionals) and his control after barely pitching in 3 years.

We will see. I say 50/50 he is taken and 20/80 that he is kept due to control.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:46 am

TonyIPI wrote:'tis why I have been getting calls, texts and emails from these people looking for any info they can find.


You've been telling everyone that his finger fell off in his last bullpen session in instructs, right?! :tease:
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:54 am

I'm just not sure on Miller (re Rule 5 Draft).

Clubs CANNOT view his medical file before selecting him. I did not know this until just finding this out. Had I known this, I would have predicted he NOT be rostered.

Teams also have not seen him pitch since May 2008.

That's HUGE.

Clubs have no info on the guy other than they know he is recovering from a rare injury and is still unknown if he will ever pitch again. They don't have any clue what his stuff is like now, and they have no idea what his true medical situation is. Was one of the reasons they had him pitch just that one inning in Instructs so as to not give people extended looks at him (we already had tons of looks in bullpens and sim games).

Remember, he was at 90-91 on average and hit a 93 in that one outing.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby MadThinker88 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:31 pm

TonyIPI wrote:I'm just not sure on Miller (re Rule 5 Draft).

Clubs CANNOT view his medical file before selecting him. I did not know this until just finding this out. Had I known this, I would have predicted he NOT be rostered.

Teams also have not seen him pitch since May 2008.

That's HUGE.......


I don't disagree with the setiment but what about the issues that came up when Ryan Goleski was taken 1st in the R5 a few years back. Tribe didn't disclose his wrist issue and all hades resulted from Oakland and the league office.

Is it a matter that the the Tribe has to disclose the injury of Miller but not the medical records themselves?
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby daingean » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:17 pm

Some things are just not adding up to him getting picked. Miller was a FA and signed a ML deal. If the Indians thought he might get picked, wouldn't they have waited until after to R5 to sign him? You never know but I'm sure the Indians know what they are doing.

Maybe McAllister's projection as a #4/#5 starter is worth more than a relief pitcher with a questionable history.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby JP_Frost » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:14 pm

I think they rostered McAllister over Miller, because the likelihood of McAllister being picked are far higher than Miller. Besides, the Indians generally do a good job of protecting their talents. I must say though that guys like Duncan and Crowe (and maybe Brown) might not be that deserving of a roster spot.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:44 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:Is it a matter that the the Tribe has to disclose the injury of Miller but not the medical records themselves?


I'll try and clarify, but clubs are permitted to submit injury reports to the league office anytime a guy has a surgery. Goleski had surgery in November that offseason prior to the Rule 5, and if memory serves me right there was some hub bub that they didn't file it with the league.

This is different from actually providing medical files. It is just a note included on a player's public record he had an injury or surgery. All actual surgery records, tests, exams, MRIs, x-rays, etc are not for other teams to view until AFTER they are drafted. So, with that in mind, a drafting team will have zero idea where he really is with his comeback attempt.

Don't forget too that once a team picks him up the cost is more than we think. There is a lot of cost involved with the constant doctor evaluations, tests, rehab, workers comp, potenially more surgery and then some. Add in a $400K major league salary, and if they DID want to carry him on the DL all year you are looking at a $600K+ Rule 5 investment for a guy who may never throw a pitch at 95 MPH again....or any pitch for that matter.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:28 pm

JP_Frost wrote:I think they rostered McAllister over Miller, because the likelihood of McAllister being picked are far higher than Miller. Besides, the Indians generally do a good job of protecting their talents. I must say though that guys like Duncan and Crowe (and maybe Brown) might not be that deserving of a roster spot.

I agree JP. Not only those three but look at all the compartively sucky RH relievers that are still on the 40. We will have forgotten the names of many of these guys by 2012 IMO. Right decision of not, the Tribe is aware what they are doing. I am not ready to throw McAlister under the bus yet. :pleasantry:
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:44 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
JP_Frost wrote:I think they rostered McAllister over Miller, because the likelihood of McAllister being picked are far higher than Miller. Besides, the Indians generally do a good job of protecting their talents. I must say though that guys like Duncan and Crowe (and maybe Brown) might not be that deserving of a roster spot.

I agree JP. Not only those three but look at all the compartively sucky RH relievers that are still on the 40. We will have forgotten the names of many of these guys by 2012 IMO. Right decision of not, the Tribe is aware what they are doing. I am not ready to throw McAlister under the bus yet. :pleasantry:


Yeah not sure why people are so down on McAllister. Was very young for AAA, just like Gomez and Carrasco the year before. I fully expect him to have a Tomlin-like rebound year once his HR-rate comes back down to normal. He's not the first 22 year old to struggle in his first stint at AAA either.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:52 pm

As far as Miller getting taken....I say no.

Honestly don't really care one way or another. Chalked him up as a lost cause a while ago. He's at best gonna be a right-handed setup guy. With where his stuff is reportedly at (barely hitting 93?) then he's no better than the numerous options we have at AAA and below.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:57 pm

...With where his stuff is reportedly at (barely hitting 93?) then he's no better than the numerous options we have at AAA and below..
That's cold man.. when you're heart gets back from the cardiologist.. double check to make sure it's working...
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:00 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
...With where his stuff is reportedly at (barely hitting 93?) then he's no better than the numerous options we have at AAA and below..
That's cold man.. when you're heart gets back from the cardiologist.. double check to make sure it's working...

Just got back from mine GS. I can inform you that i have similar thoughts to Hermie with regard to Miller and the doc told me my heart is working just fine. Cold...maybe. Practical.....definitely. I take it you would prefer sentimentality over team needs and that is OK. Just don't damn those of us who have a somewhat different opinion. Sorry to step on your post Hermie. I know you can speak for yourself. :pleasantry:
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:32 pm

I'll get over it.. sniffle sniffle...
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:03 pm

Here's a question to those worrying about Miller getting picked in Rule 5: Since no one claimed Miller when he was put on waivers after being removed from the 40-man, why would a team chose to pick him up in Rule 5?
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby GhostofTedCox » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:37 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Here's a question to those worrying about Miller getting picked in Rule 5: Since no one claimed Miller when he was put on waivers after being removed from the 40-man, why would a team chose to pick him up in Rule 5?


Because now he can throw 90+ and back then he couldn't. Tony,the entire Rule 5 draft is a gamble anyway. So why wouldn't a team take a chance on a former premium prospect who is making progress in a comeback? He will get picked. Now, will he stick with that team? That depends on the progress he shows the new team, and how deep/thin they happen to be on their staff.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby petes999 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:08 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Here's a question to those worrying about Miller getting picked in Rule 5: Since no one claimed Miller when he was put on waivers after being removed from the 40-man, why would a team chose to pick him up in Rule 5?


Tony, I said in another thread, the key for me is did his agent get any other phone calls before resigning with us. The point is that he choose to sign with Cleveland -- what is the salaries ? minor league contract maybe $40,000 to $65,000 or so (for a vet) and $400,000 if they get to the major league appearance. He wasn't going to get much different, so might as well show his loyalty after Cleveland brought him back this far.

But, Rule 5 is about taking a $50,000 gamble on someone who pitched 1 inning at 93 mph. Sorry GhostofTedCox, that isn't that fast for a relief pitcher (if he hit his old 97 mph that's a different story). But, that one inning showed other clubs that he may be back. Now, they got to ask if Loux is worth $325,000 with his injury concerns what is Miller worth with more injuries but same upside potential - back-end closer? Maybe $25,000 or so for one peak in spring training. When major leagues sign vets for more than that who are AAAA folder, will they gamble on a potential closer (even if it is a 1 in 50 shot) and pay $50,000?
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby MadThinker88 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:58 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Here's a question to those worrying about Miller getting picked in Rule 5: Since no one claimed Miller when he was put on waivers after being removed from the 40-man, why would a team chose to pick him up in Rule 5?


You raise a fair question Tony. Ghost and Pete have talked around the point that I will spotlight - timeframe. When Adam was waived to make roster space a year ago plus he was still going thru the multiple procedures & the ensuing rehab.

What organizations would want to pick up the cost to keep that moving forward? I don't think there are many.

Now he is approaching the end of the bounceback journey. Maybe Adam can successfully take those final steps. Maybe he can't. But the overall cost to find out now is less then it was back then.

I will grant you that the fact the other clubs can't view the medical records before selecting Adam reduces the possiblity of selection but I still think Adam gets taken. As we have been fond of writing recently - it only takes 1.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby danh8 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:30 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Here's a question to those worrying about Miller getting picked in Rule 5: Since no one claimed Miller when he was put on waivers after being removed from the 40-man, why would a team chose to pick him up in Rule 5?


The general feeling at the time of his waiver was that his career was finished. Now, with a successful rehabilitation, and abi8lity to actually pitch, a renewed hope exists that he may actually have a career afterall.

He's the type talent that you gamble on for the relative cheapness by which you can get him. Nobody in baseball forgets just how much talent that kid has.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:33 am

The key to all of this is the scouts make the call in the Rule 5 process. Scouts make the recommendations for players to pick. With Miller, organizations know absolutely nothing more now than they knew back when he was put on waivers a year ago at this time. They have heard he is on the comeback trail and has pitched a few bullpens and made one bullpen appearance in instructional league, but no one has any info on him from seeing him unless they happened to have a scout at that one Instructs appearance (I actually talked to a scout from a team who saw him pitch in that game....not a good report at all, albeit just 12 pitches...90-91 and hit 93 MPH once).

I think something that has been misconstrued along the lines with the following of his comeback and reporting on it is this notion that he is 100% healthy and all done with rehab and will pitch next year. Far from that actually.

The guy is in the mix to pitch for the Indians next year, that is clear. But he also has to prove he can remain healthy and that he can pitch. The Indians talked to their medical staff prior to making roster decisions....heck on Friday morning one last time. From what I am hearing the medical is still not good. And with that, it is a big reason they did not protect him. He has a long way to go and tons more rehab still to do, which is something any potential drafting team will have to take on. With all the medical costs, workers comp, salary, etc, the $50K investment increases significantly.

I do think there is the potential he is drafted. Anyone can be. Only takes one team. But I believe the odds are clearly against him getting picked. Everyone I have consulted with the Indians and with several other teams believe this to be the case. Even if he is picked he is returned at some point.....in fact, the worst thing that could ever happen to him would be to go to another organization that has no idea what's going on with him.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:31 am

TonyIPI wrote:The key to all of this is the scouts make the call in the Rule 5 process. Scouts make the recommendations for players to pick. With Miller, organizations know absolutely nothing more now than they knew back when he was put on waivers a year ago at this time. They have heard he is on the comeback trail and has pitched a few bullpens and made one bullpen appearance in instructional league, but no one has any info on him from seeing him unless they happened to have a scout at that one Instructs appearance (I actually talked to a scout from a team who saw him pitch in that game....not a good report at all, albeit just 12 pitches...90-91 and hit 93 MPH once).

I think something that has been misconstrued along the lines with the following of his comeback and reporting on it is this notion that he is 100% healthy and all done with rehab and will pitch next year. Far from that actually.

The guy is in the mix to pitch for the Indians next year, that is clear. But he also has to prove he can remain healthy and that he can pitch. The Indians talked to their medical staff prior to making roster decisions....heck on Friday morning one last time. From what I am hearing the medical is still not good. And with that, it is a big reason they did not protect him. He has a long way to go and tons more rehab still to do, which is something any potential drafting team will have to take on. With all the medical costs, workers comp, salary, etc, the $50K investment increases significantly.

I do think there is the potential he is drafted. Anyone can be. Only takes one team. But I believe the odds are clearly against him getting picked. Everyone I have consulted with the Indians and with several other teams believe this to be the case. Even if he is picked he is returned at some point.....in fact, the worst thing that could ever happen to him would be to go to another organization that has no idea what's going on with him.

Gee Tony, how can you be so cold? You know how sensitive Geronimo is! The poor lad is still blubbering from Hermie and me. Clearly you are heartless in pointing out these facts to your readers when GS's emotions are so high! Could you be a little more gentle for his benefit? :s_biggrin
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:10 pm

danh8 wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:Here's a question to those worrying about Miller getting picked in Rule 5: Since no one claimed Miller when he was put on waivers after being removed from the 40-man, why would a team chose to pick him up in Rule 5?


The general feeling at the time of his waiver was that his career was finished. Now, with a successful rehabilitation, and abi8lity to actually pitch, a renewed hope exists that he may actually have a career afterall.

He's the type talent that you gamble on for the relative cheapness by which you can get him. Nobody in baseball forgets just how much talent that kid has.


Kind of stretching the word "successful" there....throwing in Arizona is hardly a successful rehabilitation.....
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:22 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Kind of stretching the word "successful" there....throwing in Arizona is hardly a successful rehabilitation.....


Very much agree there.

I will explain in more detail in an upcoming piece....but for whatever reason there is a misconception that Miller is back and ready to go and that his rehab is over or was a success. At least that is what it appears to be from the emails, tweets, texts, and message boards posts I am getting and seeing.

Guy has a long way to go. Only scaled the first of many hurdles. There is no doubt it is an incredible story, he has worked hard to get back to where he is, and he is certainly in the mix to pitch with the Indians next year. But none of that guarantees he is healthy or will actually pitch for the Indians.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby danh8 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:52 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Sounds like alot exists that the average fan doesn't know about in terms of his rehab. Anxious to see the what more info you have on his current status.

On the Indians side of things, as far as their interests. I wouldn't be surprised if they might feel that any team looking into him might look at sites like this one to get any indication of his true status. Giving out less than stellar appraisals also serves a purpose, possibly ?


Yes, there is a TON more to his medical situation than the average fan knows, and a lot I myself don't know. Again, when the Indians talked to their medical people and reviewed the information with them last Friday, their actions spoke very loudly at what future they think he has when they decided not to roster him after reviewing that info and talking to doctors.

And yes, depending on who you talk to, the Indians may try to make things sound worse than they are with Miller. I've talked to a lot of other teams as they are in info search mode because there is NOTHING out there on him. No internal reports, evaluations, video, pictures...anything on him from the last two years. They are simply digging around to see if more info can be had....so yes, you can assume they will be checking these sites. I will say one thing though, that the Indians have been pretty consistent with the info on Miller all along. That being while he is showing progress and has made great strides and that it is a great story....that when it all boils down to it they don't expect him to pitch in the big leagues.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby webba2000 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:37 am

Remember that even if he get selected he'll have to stay on the new team's 25 men roster the whole year, like we did with Ambriz.
Considering the high number of available spots in others team 40-men roster (Giants, O's, Marlins and Astros just cleared some space) and I guess he will be selected, but, I think, that he will be offered back as soon as mid march.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby danh8 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:07 pm

danh8 wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:Sounds like alot exists that the average fan doesn't know about in terms of his rehab. Anxious to see the what more info you have on his current status.

On the Indians side of things, as far as their interests. I wouldn't be surprised if they might feel that any team looking into him might look at sites like this one to get any indication of his true status. Giving out less than stellar appraisals also serves a purpose, possibly ?


Yes, there is a TON more to his medical situation than the average fan knows, and a lot I myself don't know. Again, when the Indians talked to their medical people and reviewed the information with them last Friday, their actions spoke very loudly at what future they think he has when they decided not to roster him after reviewing that info and talking to doctors.

And yes, depending on who you talk to, the Indians may try to make things sound worse than they are with Miller. I've talked to a lot of other teams as they are in info search mode because there is NOTHING out there on him. No internal reports, evaluations, video, pictures...anything on him from the last two years. They are simply digging around to see if more info can be had....so yes, you can assume they will be checking these sites. I will say one thing though, that the Indians have been pretty consistent with the info on Miller all along. That being while he is showing progress and has made great strides and that it is a great story....that when it all boils down to it they don't expect him to pitch in the big leagues.


To me, a key hurdle will be if and when he tries to snap off his slider. Only time will tell, but my prayers are with this kid. To think how close he was to fulfilling a life's dream, and being able to care of his entire family ...and then all this.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby tribefan611 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:13 am

webba2000 wrote:Remember that even if he get selected he'll have to stay on the new team's 25 men roster the whole year, like we did with Ambriz.
Considering the high number of available spots in others team 40-men roster (Giants, O's, Marlins and Astros just cleared some space) and I guess he will be selected, but, I think, that he will be offered back as soon as mid march.


I don't understand this and why everyone keeps saying this. The way I understand it, they would not have to have him on the roster at all. They would just have to 60-day him all year. Ambriz wasn't even on our roster until the end of April. Correct? Anybody?
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby indianinkslinger » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:15 am

tribefan611 wrote:
webba2000 wrote:Remember that even if he get selected he'll have to stay on the new team's 25 men roster the whole year, like we did with Ambriz.
Considering the high number of available spots in others team 40-men roster (Giants, O's, Marlins and Astros just cleared some space) and I guess he will be selected, but, I think, that he will be offered back as soon as mid march.


I don't understand this and why everyone keeps saying this. The way I understand it, they would not have to have him on the roster at all. They would just have to 60-day him all year. Ambriz wasn't even on our roster until the end of April. Correct? Anybody?

Not totally sure but I think Ambriz was on the DL then went directly to the 25. Also think if 60 day is used, there is something about 90 days following year on active 25. Not quite than easy when you consider you have to pay full salary and benefits. :pleasantry:
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby webba2000 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:58 am

tribefan611 wrote:
webba2000 wrote:Remember that even if he get selected he'll have to stay on the new team's 25 men roster the whole year, like we did with Ambriz.
Considering the high number of available spots in others team 40-men roster (Giants, O's, Marlins and Astros just cleared some space) and I guess he will be selected, but, I think, that he will be offered back as soon as mid march.


I don't understand this and why everyone keeps saying this. The way I understand it, they would not have to have him on the roster at all. They would just have to 60-day him all year. Ambriz wasn't even on our roster until the end of April. Correct? Anybody?

Aside form the economical perspective that indianinkslinger just noted, must be said that if some team select him and put him on the 60-day DL he still need to be on the new team roster for at least 90 days next season otherwise he must be offered back.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby webba2000 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:56 am

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2010/11/22/18 ... ities-2010

They all seem to be very high on Miller (see the comments). I kind of think that that is the general thinking. He'll get pick but I still think he'll be offered back rather soon.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby Edible14 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:27 pm

tribefan611 wrote:I don't understand this and why everyone keeps saying this. The way I understand it, they would not have to have him on the roster at all. They would just have to 60-day him all year. Ambriz wasn't even on our roster until the end of April. Correct? Anybody?


As I responded to you in the other thread:

They could, but I doubt it. You're talking about tacking on an additional league minimum salary to the payroll, all on the hope that a guy with a completely reconstructed pulley system in his finger might some day be... a decent reliever? He's certainly never going to start again. I don't know off the top of my head, but do teams really EVER draft a guy that they know is going to be on the DL all year? If he's taking a spot on the bullpen, at least you can argue that 400k of that is a sunk cost of having any guy on the roster, but if he's just on the DL... that 400k IS an additional cost to just the 50k to take him (not to mention the health insurance, medical costs, etc.). I don't think a scout is going to suggest taking a half a million dollar flier on a guy that you have almost no medical info about.


Oh, and the rules still say you have to have him on the 25 man roster for 90 days. If not this year, then the first 90 days of next season. So, no, stashing a guy from Rule V on the 60 day DL isn't that great of an option. And, as far as I remember, most teams don't do it.
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby tribefan611 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:40 pm

Inkslinger-I was not aware of the 90 days rule. Say he appears on one game. Even, the last game of the season and is on the 60-day all year prior to that. Then he is their's? What if he is still not healthy the following year and needs to be on DL all year?
My point is that how much is 50K going to make in a team's payroll?
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Re: Does Adam Miller get taken in the Rule V draft

Postby indianinkslinger » Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:37 pm

tribefan611 wrote:Inkslinger-I was not aware of the 90 days rule. Say he appears on one game. Even, the last game of the season and is on the 60-day all year prior to that. Then he is their's? What if he is still not healthy the following year and needs to be on DL all year?
My point is that how much is 50K going to make in a team's payroll?

There are a whole lot of people on this site who know these rules much better than I do but it is my understanding that a drafted player must be on the active roster for at least 90 days whether it be in 2011 or 2012. I do not think there is any requirement that the player actually participate in a game but I have never seen that happen. Roster spot on the 25 is too valuable. The issue is not the 50K IMO but is more closely related to roster expenses which would be at least 500K for 0ne year and double for 2. That's still chickenfeed to big market teams but not so for the more financially challenged franchises. Anyone with better knowledge feel free to comment but I think the 90 day active roster rule applies no matter when it is exercised but i have never heard of that happening. Remember, you are asking a question from someone who was absolutely clueless about Bryson's extra year of eligibility. Hope that helps but I could use some help if I am steering you wrong. :drinks:
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