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2010 BA League Top 20s

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:43 pm

BA kicked off their annual Top 20 listings today with the Arizona League. Not surprisingly, no Indians made the Top 20 list, but two just missed (Romero and Sterling). Here are the Indians related comments from the chat:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/p ... 10708.html

JAYPERS (IL): I'd like to get your thoughts on Cleveland's Felix Sterling. He seems impressive in stature, and struck out more than his fair share. What excluded him from the list? Is he not as impressive as his numbers indicate?

Bill Mitchell: We have two questions about Sterling who pitched very well for the Indians as a 17-year-old. He finished in my top 25. His fastball ranges from 91-93 with an average slider and changeup. He's already got a pretty mature body —- bigger than his listed weight of 200 —- so I didn't see as much projection from him as with other pitchers in the league. Still, an interesting prospect to watch.

Elliot (Youngstown OH): Besides Sterling no other Indians stood out statistically. Any other prospects on their team? (Of course most of the top Indian draftees didn't arrive until the final weeks.)

Bill Mitchell: The Indians had the youngest team in the league, with several intriguing Latin teenagers in addition to Sterling. Catcher Alex Monsalve came very close to making the list —- good defensive skills in only his second year as a catcher. He's got some power potential but needs to make better contact and level out his swing. Jorge Martinez is interesting. He played three infield positions but profiles best as a shortstop; he's got a 60 arm. Martinez struggled at the plate but showed a lively bat at times. Third baseman Juan Romero came on strong late in the season and showed good power potential. He's got a body that is easy to project getting stronger, but he needs to make better contact; he struck out nearly half the times he went to the plate.

Pep Guariola (Ohio): Why wasn't Juan Romeo ranked? he was one of the youngest players in the league and showed a lot of power.

Bill Mitchell: I covered Romero when I talked about other Indians prospects. He got some consideration and is one to watch, but I want to see him cut down on his strikeouts.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:26 pm

No one ranked in Top 20 in NY-Penn League....no surprise here either really.

Here is a comment in the chat on some Indians players:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/p ... 10725.html

bryan (ohio): aaron-followed the mahoning valley scrappers this summer, and was wondering if consideration was given to several of their top prospects such as INF giovanni urshula, OF-1B chase burnette, or one of the top RHP in the nypl this season alex kaminsky.

Aaron Fitt: Not the most prospecty Mahoning Valley team, but Urshela is interesting and garnered some consideration. He might have been the best defensive third baseman in the league, with arm strength and very good actions, and he has some feel for hitting, but he needs to get stronger. He's young, though, and has plenty of time to add muscle. Burnette has plenty of muscle and a strong arm — not a bad right-field profile, actually. He's a nice sleeper prospect and an intriguing find in the 18th round, but he needs to improve his approach offensively — there's too much swing-and-miss. I also liked Jordan Cooper in college, though he got very little support for this list from people I spoke with.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:21 pm

No Indians in Midwest League Top 20 either.

Here is the response to one comment (I'd like to know who this Elliot guy is from Youngstown....he always sends them questions):

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/p ... 10746.html

Elliot (Youngstown OH): I know that Lake County did it with mirrors, and solid performances from steady nonprospects, but I thought there was one solid candidate and a few possibles for the list. Catcher Chun Chen had awfully good offensive stats in his half season in the Midwest League. Did he come close? Any love for OF Bo Greenwell and pitchers Matt Packer and Cody Burns?

Jim Callis: Lake County won the league title but they didn't really have a guy who was especially close to cracking the Top 20. Chen has a solid bat and plus arm strength, but he's very raw as a receiver and most guys saw him as more of a backup. Packer is interesting. Good life on a solid fastball and changeup. Casey Frawley could be a good utility guy, strong-armed Austin Adams and Burns could be useful relievers. Greenwell doesn't have enough power to be a regular in LF.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby jellis » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:26 pm

a bit disconcerting that BA doesn't even have a guy for us ranked that low. I know they stink, but league top 20s are what they get from asking opposing managers. It makes you wonder about some of the guys we rushed to hype this year.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:31 pm

jellis wrote:a bit disconcerting that BA doesn't even have a guy for us ranked that low. I know they stink, but league top 20s are what they get from asking opposing managers. It makes you wonder about some of the guys we rushed to hype this year.


Not too concerned. I expected this from AZL, MV, and LC with the dearth of true prospects there. Guys like Knapp barely pitched in LC, and the guys of high value like Gardner and Chen were moved to Kinston quickly. MV was the worst collection of prospects in years. AZL was very young.

I expect that 2-3 guys will make the Carolina League list, and another 2-3 in Akron/Columbus. Part of the problem though is so many of our valued guys split seasons at two levels, so this factors into things heavily I believe, especially since managers go by more what they saw lately versus two-three months ago when a guy was in the league before being called up. Also, lots of guys in Columbus got called to Cleveland, so will be interesting to see how they fare.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby rsamak » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:57 pm

How is Urshela ranked much below Chisenhall? Superior defense and offensive numbers not that far below Chiz when he is 2yrs younger at MV. Is his swing so poor that he doesn't grade out to do well at a higher level?
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby bmonnig » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:41 pm

I'm surprised Soto seemingly didn't get any consideration for the MWL top 20. He a couple years younger and had just as good if not better numbers than a couple of the pitchers that made the list.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby TonyIBI » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:15 am

rsamak wrote:How is Urshela ranked much below Chisenhall? Superior defense and offensive numbers not that far below Chiz when he is 2yrs younger at MV. Is his swing so poor that he doesn't grade out to do well at a higher level?


Urshela is a superior defender, for sure. Bat and power is the difference. I know he showed some solid bat-to-ball this year, but the swing is nowhere close to Lonnie's...then again, whose is? Also, needs to show more power to be a truly elite prospect. Going to be an interesting thing to follow to see if he becomes either a good bat-to-ball good on-base guy, or if he can grow into that body and start to show some power and be a run producer. He's gonna be fun to follow and watch develop the next few years, all the while sitting back and watching highlight reel defense night in and night out.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby TonyIBI » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:17 am

bmonnig wrote:I'm surprised Soto seemingly didn't get any consideration for the MWL top 20. He a couple years younger and had just as good if not better numbers than a couple of the pitchers that made the list.


This is the one glaring, and really only ommission so far to me. He dominated the league with his cutter....but his other stuff is very average (but projectable), so maybe he didn't impress managers for other teams? Dunno. As a comparison, I'm curious where Jeanmar Gomez and Hector Rondon ranked in the SAL Top 20 listing in 2007 because those are two comparable guys to Soto if you ask me (Soto is somewhere in between the two based on their 2007 showing/ability if you ask me).
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:09 am

I don't know if Soto has been slighted here or not, but one thing to consider is the Midwest League was stacked this season. Jonathan Singleton ranked #1 on their SAL list, but when asked, Jim Callis said he'd have only ranked somewhere between #6 and #9 in the MWL.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby jellis » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:46 pm

TonyIPI wrote:
bmonnig wrote:I'm surprised Soto seemingly didn't get any consideration for the MWL top 20. He a couple years younger and had just as good if not better numbers than a couple of the pitchers that made the list.


This is the one glaring, and really only ommission so far to me. He dominated the league with his cutter....but his other stuff is very average (but projectable), so maybe he didn't impress managers for other teams? Dunno. As a comparison, I'm curious where Jeanmar Gomez and Hector Rondon ranked in the SAL Top 20 listing in 2007 because those are two comparable guys to Soto if you ask me (Soto is somewhere in between the two based on their 2007 showing/ability if you ask me).



if his cutter is a plus pitch he could ride it, the CWS teach every guy they get the cutter as an out pitch it seems and it has helped them turn around a few fallen players
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby PanRains » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:16 am

Pork Chop Pough wrote:I don't know if Soto has been slighted here or not, but one thing to consider is the Midwest League was stacked this season. Jonathan Singleton ranked #1 on their SAL list, but when asked, Jim Callis said he'd have only ranked somewhere between #6 and #9 in the MWL.


Another thing to note is that the MWL has 16 teams, so not getting a guy on the list isn't necessarily a dire pronouncement on the prospect nature of Lake County. Couple that, again, with the fact that the BA article took pains to state that the MWL had a huge array of talent... disappointing that no Captains made the list, but understandable.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:22 pm

Indians land two in the Carolina League Top 20

Jason Kipnis' 54 game stint in Kinston landed him at #10. Boston's Oscar Tejeda was the highest ranked 2B in the league at #8, but spent the full season there and put up pretty good numbers at age 20.

The inclusion of Jordan Henry at #19 is just strange (beyond their typo that he's a 1B), and an example of why I just can't take these lists seriously. Okay, so Alex White, Nick Hagadone, Kelvin De La Cruz, Rob Bryson and Bryce Stowell didn't spend enough time in Kinston before their promotions to qualify for this list. There's still Joe Gardner, who had an excellent season there in 22 starts and I would think is a consensus better prospect than Henry. There's also Chun Chen, who despite needing work behind the plate, was more impressive in a longer stint at Kinston than Henry. Austin Adams and Cory Burns also both qualified for the list, and should at least be in the discussion. I don't mean to tear Jordan Henry down, and I love his defense, but until he shows he's at least capable of hitting a few doubles, there are 8-9 guys who appeared in Kinston this season who I like better as prospects.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:46 pm

The omission of Gardner is puzzling. I can see why Chen got overlooked since he joined late and is not impressive defensively, but no Gardner is interesting. Will have to see the corresponding chat wrap as I am sure they will say why he was not listed. McFarland and Burns are two others who should have received some consideration, though will agree both are borderline prospects.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby gotribe31 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:13 am

I thought the Carolina League Top 20 from 5 years ago was more interesting than anything.

4. Adam Miller
6. Jeremy Sowers
12. Tony Sipp
16. Brad Snyder
19. Stephen Head
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby MadThinker88 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:50 pm

gotribe31 wrote:I thought the Carolina League Top 20 from 5 years ago was more interesting than anything.

4. Adam Miller
6. Jeremy Sowers
12. Tony Sipp
16. Brad Snyder
19. Stephen Head


Good Find! And if this isn't a cautionary tale for all followers of the Tribe minors, I don't know what is.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:50 pm

Here are the Indians excerpts from the Carolina League chat:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/p ... 10748.html

Ty (Indiana): Does Abner Abreu impress you and scouts?

Lacy Lusk: I only saw a little bit of the K-Tribe this year, but scouts do like his tools. The 130-20 strikeout-to-walk ratio seems like the biggest thing the 20-year-old needs to improve upon.

Bryan (San Francisco): How the heck does Joe Gardner not make this list??? He's big, age-appropriate, second in the league in ERA, second in wins despite starting in the MWL, and first in BA against by a long shot. He also has one of the better ground ball ratios around. I know these lists are by definition subjective but this one is a head-scratcher.

Lacy Lusk: Another one who has a great shot at making it. Doesn't throw as hard as some of the other pitchers we've mentioned, but he has a great feel for pitching. His sinker is outstanding, and there's plenty of use for that kind of pitcher. Could certainly wind up with a better career than some of the guys who made the top 20.

AC (Atlanta): Bo Greenwell: prospect or suspect?

Lacy Lusk: Still prospect. He had a nice year at Lake County and Kinston.

AC (Atlanta): How close to making this list did TJ House come?

Lacy Lusk: Not very, but he does have a good repertoire and is still just 20. Did receive some positive comments.

Richard (NC): Thanks for the chat. Did Alex White not pitch enough innings to qualify? If so, where would he have ranked had he qualified?

Lacy Lusk: Exactly. Just a little short of the 46-47 innings it takes (one-third of an inning per game). He definitely would've been top 10, if not in the top half of it. Seasoned pitcher from UNC who has done better than just about every arm the Indians traded for in recent years.

Frank (Columbus, OH): Did any other players from Kinston receive consideration? Their pitching was pretty strong this year (Gardner, House, McFarland, Burns), and I'm a little surprised that none of those guys cracked the list.

Lacy Lusk: There were positive comments on all dour — maybe a little more on Gardner and Burns from the rest of the league, but they are all indeed good prospects.

David (Nairobi): It is nice to see Kinston's Kipnis and Henry recognized. Most of the other Indians had middling years, but RHP Joe Gardner and C Chun-Hsiu Chen had break-out years. Were they close to making the top 20, and what kept them off of it? Seemed like a deep league in prospects this year, but Joe was 12-6 with a 2.65 ERA and a dominant sinker and Chen had an OPS of .966. Chen is still raw as a catcher, but the Indians' front office say that he has the skills to stay there.

Lacy Lusk: Gardner has been mentioned before, but also wanted to get Chen's name out there because he also almost made the list. Is still raw, but had a tremendous year and is certainly a prospect.

Elliot (Youngstown OH): You've already answered about the absent Joe Gardner, but what about Alex White? He had enough innings in the Carolina League to qualify, didn't he? Had everyone forgotten him by the end of the year?

Lacy Lusk: Didn't forget Alex. He came about as close as you can to the one-third of an inning per game cutoff. Would've been top 10.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:19 pm

The more I look at that Carolina League listing and corresponding chat, the more I think the dude that did it did not have a good feel for things. Nothing against Jordan Henry as I like him as a player and person, but there is absolutely no freaking way he is a better rated prospect than Joe Gardner. Probably Chun Chen as well. This is why you let the scouts rate the guys....not managers. :biggrin:
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby jellis » Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:39 pm

TonyIPI wrote:The more I look at that Carolina League listing and corresponding chat, the more I think the dude that did it did not have a good feel for things. Nothing against Jordan Henry as I like him as a player and person, but there is absolutely no freaking way he is a better rated prospect than Joe Gardner. Probably Chun Chen as well. This is why you let the scouts rate the guys....not managers. :biggrin:



the more I look at it the more, I realize why I dont trust BA anymore at all
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:46 pm

jellis wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:The more I look at that Carolina League listing and corresponding chat, the more I think the dude that did it did not have a good feel for things. Nothing against Jordan Henry as I like him as a player and person, but there is absolutely no freaking way he is a better rated prospect than Joe Gardner. Probably Chun Chen as well. This is why you let the scouts rate the guys....not managers. :biggrin:



the more I look at it the more, I realize why I dont trust BA anymore at all


I mean, that may go down as the worst chat ever. Talk about a ton of empty comments and lack of info/insight.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:02 pm

There really is no reason to belabor how bad BA is. Most postyers on the site agree now that Voldemort is gone. They are what they are.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:49 am

EL list has:

#6 Chisenhall
#8 White
#9 Kipnis

The team has some real talent in the upper levels of the minors, and with Grant in charge I expect we'll see more in the future. That dude knows how to draft.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:56 am

Indians excerpts from Eastern League chat:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/p ... 10774.html

Shane (Miami): Kipnis really proved his capabilities offensively this year, even in the AAA playoffs. Would you say, bat alone, that he's moved past guys like Ackley and Lawrie?

John Manuel: I like Kipnis, but no, not for me; he's 3 years older than Lawrie, they're similar players, and neither may stay at 2B when it's all said and done. I believe in Ackley but I acknowledge the scouts I've talked to really like the explosion in Kipnis' bat, and that what was lacking with Ackley. I just think with Ackley (a) the power came on as the year went on, as he adjusted to pro ball, (b) he's a pretty unique player. The first thing scouts say about him almost always is, "He's not what I expected." I think that colors scouts' perceptions of him. He had one awful month, and then a very good year.

Trevor (Cleveland, OH): Offensively, Lonnie Chisenhall's ceiling kinda reminds me of Ryan Zimmerman, is that a fair comp? IF not, what players were given as comps?

John Manuel: No, because Zimmerman (a) is a Gold Glove-caliber defender, even with all his crazy arm angles, and Chisenhall isn't; and (b) Zimmerman hit 58 homers the last two seasons, and I don't think Chisenhall will do that. He's more of an 18-22 HR a year guy, not 25-30. Chisenhall as a hitter to me is more like a Nick Markakis type in that he's going to hit for average more than he'll hit for power. Chisenhall's got a lot of 50 tools, and some scouts like him as a 60 hitter. Zimmerman's tools are louder.

Jon (Peoria): Is Kipnis' bat good enough to negate the impact that he might be an average or below average defender at 2b? How does his offensive ceiling compare to another former ASU player, Dustin Pedroia?

John Manuel: He has more power than Pedroia but less feel for the game, instincts, confidence, etc. I don't think it's constructive to compare players to Pedroia, he's just a different, unique cat.

Chuck (Wichita): I know it's hard for relievers to make these lists, but was Tim Collins and his ridiculous K/9 ratio considered?

John Manuel: He was, he's definitely a prospect, but I didn't rank anyone who I thought would wind up in the bullpen. White, Oliver and Morris it gets mentioned, but White and Oliver got enough support from scouts and managers for their competitiveness and pitchability with their fastball for them to remain starters. And Morris has two filthy breaking balls. Collins would have to rank behind Zach Stewart and perhaps Danny Moskos (yes, that Danny Moskos) and Carlos Gutierrez among relievers, off the top of my head. I have heard that Collins is a long-toss guy, though, maybe if I'd heard that before I would have run him up the list a bit . . .
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby OhioBaseball » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:28 pm

I was expecting to see Gardner's name in the Carolina League top 20 (its a relatively easy list to make, with only 8 teams in the league), but wasn't all that surprised that he was left off.

First of all, its easy to get a little ethnocentric on an Indians minor league prospect website. Other teams have good prospects, too.

I was critical of Gardner earlier in the season in the Kinston thread b/c I don't think he's a good starting pitching prospect. Long story short, I think he's going to struggle vs lefties and his stuff does not get ideal vertical plane movement. That can be OK b/c he gets very good natural sink and tailing action on his fastball. He missed the list b/c when scouts and managers watch him pitch, they'll immediately think he's a future bullpen arm. Starting pitchers at the major league level just don't look like him. There will be exceptions, however, and Gardner may be one of them some day, but I'm not betting on it. Gardner is going to struggle vs. lefties unless he overhauls his pitching style, which would probably ruin him as a prospect. I think he should be moved to the bullpen next year so that he could impact the major league team as soon as possible, and more importantly b/c I don't think he makes it as a starter.

I think Chisenhall, White and Kipnis were appropriately ranked in the Eastern League. They are solid prospects and it's a tough list to make with 12 teams in the league. Chumps don't make the top 10 in the Eastern League.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby TitoFrancona » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:39 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:I was expecting to see Gardner's name in the Carolina League top 20 (its a relatively easy list to make, with only 8 teams in the league), but wasn't all that surprised that he was left off.

First of all, its easy to get a little ethnocentric on an Indians minor league prospect website. Other teams have good prospects, too.

I was critical of Gardner earlier in the season in the Kinston thread b/c I don't think he's a good starting pitching prospect. Long story short, I think he's going to struggle vs lefties and his stuff does not get ideal vertical plane movement. That can be OK b/c he gets very good natural sink and tailing action on his fastball. He missed the list b/c when scouts and managers watch him pitch, they'll immediately think he's a future bullpen arm. Starting pitchers at the major league level just don't look like him. There will be exceptions, however, and Gardner may be one of them some day, but I'm not betting on it. Gardner is going to struggle vs. lefties unless he overhauls his pitching style, which would probably ruin him as a prospect. I think he should be moved to the bullpen next year so that he could impact the major league team as soon as possible, and more importantly b/c I don't think he makes it as a starter.

I think Chisenhall, White and Kipnis were appropriately ranked in the Eastern League. They are solid prospects and it's a tough list to make with 12 teams in the league. Chumps don't make the top 10 in the Eastern League.


I won't disagree with you that Gardner may eventually end up in the bullpen but imo, it's way too soon to give up on him as a starter and of course I'm pretty positive they (the Indians) feel the same way. Moving from starter to reliever isn't a transition that should take too much time. You lose at the most a season but probably not even that much time.

At this point the sytem looks to be pretty solid in relievers from the ML team to their minor league system. There's no reason for rash moves right now.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby stoike » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:05 pm

There are NO plans to move him to the bullpen. It is not going to happen. PERIOD. Guaranteed. 100%. First of all, too much bullpen depth to warrant any sort of need. Secondly, most people, most importantly the Tribe brass, view him as at least a Jake Westbrook level starter, a very solid, inning-eating #3 or #4 starter that gets a ton of ground balls.

Honestly, I think the notion of moving him to the bullpen is foolish.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby OhioBaseball » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:05 pm

stoike wrote:There are NO plans to move him to the bullpen. It is not going to happen. PERIOD. Guaranteed. 100%. First of all, too much bullpen depth to warrant any sort of need. Secondly, most people, most importantly the Tribe brass, view him as at least a Jake Westbrook level starter, a very solid, inning-eating #3 or #4 starter that gets a ton of ground balls.

Honestly, I think the notion of moving him to the bullpen is foolish.


Obviously, I disagree and I have non-biased info to back me up. I know how scouts look at pitchers, and they are definitely going to question a guy as a starter that throws from such a LOW arm slot. I think the Carolina League list explains that scouts/managers have concerns with him. The guy was excellent this last year -- he sure didn't fly under the radar. His absence in the top 20 (only 8 teams) should tell you that scouts/managers have their concerns.

Gardner dominated righties this year, and struggled to put away lefties. Lefties still didn't hit well against him (b/c Gardner is a good pitcher), but he had 34 K, 25 BB in 52 IP vs. lefties in Kinston. Those numbers back up my qualitative observation of him.

Look, go back and look at old prospect books. Lots of prospects fail and there are reasons why. I'm taking a critical look at these guys. If you get your info from what the Indians people tell reporters, you're going to think all of these prospects are great b/c they won't publicly bash their prospects. The truth is these guys have holes in their games. David Huff, Chuck Lofgren, Brad Snyder, Michael Aubrey, Jeremy Sowers, Fernando Cabrera, Wes Hodges, etc (tons of examples). There was a time when many Indians fans that think like yourself thought they'd be solid major leaguers, and it doesn't look like any of them can hack it.

Throw stones if you'd like, but I just don't think Gardner is going to be an effective SP in the majors. He's strong and athletic (should be durable), but I don't think he's got the pitching arsenal.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby stoike » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:23 am

I have never seen him pitch. Just going by what the Indians brass and guys like Law have to say. Law sees him as a #4 starter, although he wants to see how he does in AA ball before making a concrete judgment. The arm slot could be a concern, although one just needs to look at Masterson, and how the Indians view him to get a feeling that they will likely keep in in the starting rotation, come hell or high water.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby petes999 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:15 pm

From the International League,

1.Santana
20. Carrasco
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby JP_Frost » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:24 pm

I think Carrasco gets underrated a bit. People seem to forget how young he is and his second half showing, including his callup are indications of what he can do.

Santana at #1 is pretty obvious.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby OhioBaseball » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:49 pm

stoike wrote:I have never seen him pitch. Just going by what the Indians brass and guys like Law have to say. Law sees him as a #4 starter, although he wants to see how he does in AA ball before making a concrete judgment. The arm slot could be a concern, although one just needs to look at Masterson, and how the Indians view him to get a feeling that they will likely keep in in the starting rotation, come hell or high water.


I think you draw a good conclusion about the Masterson/Gardner comparison regarding how the Indians view Gardner. I think Masterson is very talented, but I question his ability as a starter. That being said, Masterson did struggle vs. lefties, but he pitched well in the second half. I hope he can make it. Bronson Arroyo is another guy that I would doubt as a starter in the majors based off his style, but he's actually had a pretty good career, despite being very ineffective vs. left handed hitters. Never a front of the rotation guy, but he's valuable. Gardner could end up being similar, but there are also lots of guys that never cut it and end up in the pen.

I'm actually bullish on the Indians in 2011-2014, and I want the team to optimize its assets over this time period. I worry that Gardner could be toiling away as a SP in Akron/Columbus when he could be helping the major league team make a run at the AL Central as a 7th-8th inning guy.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:54 pm

petes999 wrote:From the International League,
1.Santana
20. Carrasco

Like the Midwest League, the IL was pretty stacked this season, so I have no problems with the Tribe's representation here. It would have been nice to see Weglarz make the list, but there were a number of hyped prospects who were no-shows: Lars Anderson, Tyler Flowers, Dayan Viciedo, Josh Bell, Travis Wood, Fernando Martinez, Todd Frazier, Craig Kimbrel, etc.
Last edited by Pork Chop Pough on Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby jellis » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:07 pm

Pork Chop Pough wrote:
petes999 wrote:From the International League,
1.Santana
20. Carrasco

Like the Midwest League, the IL was pretty stacked this season, so I have no problems with the Tribe's representation here. It would have been nice to see Weglarz make the list, but there were a number of hyped prospects who were no-shows: Lars Anderson, Tyler Flowers, Dayan Viciedo, Josh Bell, Travis Wood, Fernando Martinez, Todd Frazier, Craig Kimbrel, Zach Cosart, etc.



you do realize most of those specs, had horrible years and have fallen off considerably as specs. I think Weglraz not being listed is crazy
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:14 am

jellis wrote:you do realize most of those specs, had horrible years and have fallen off considerably as specs. I think Weglraz not being listed is crazy

You do realize I didn't say that any of them deserved to be on the top 20 list. The point is that the IL was loaded with enough talent that a number of the more hyped guys, who were odds on favorites to be on the list early in the year, proved that making the top 20 actually required a really good season... and while half those guys came up short of expectations, only Flowers really had a "horrible" season... several of them got a start on their major league careers. I'd have to spend some time I don't have to go back and really look the back end of the list over to decide if Weglarz was robbed.
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby jellis » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:06 pm

Pork Chop Pough wrote:
jellis wrote:you do realize most of those specs, had horrible years and have fallen off considerably as specs. I think Weglraz not being listed is crazy

You do realize I didn't say that any of them deserved to be on the top 20 list. The point is that the IL was loaded with enough talent that a number of the more hyped guys, who were odds on favorites to be on the list early in the year, proved that making the top 20 actually required a really good season... and while half those guys came up short of expectations, only Flowers really had a "horrible" season... several of them got a start on their major league careers. I'd have to spend some time I don't have to go back and really look the back end of the list over to decide if Weglarz was robbed.



Of that list Bell is the only guy who should be higher then Weglraz, Anderson has fallen apart and the rest were never top 100 guys like Weglarz. I think they skipped on Weglarz thanks to Batting average, which I feel BA really over values
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Re: 2010 BA League Top 20s

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:21 pm

jellis wrote:Of that list Bell is the only guy who should be higher then Weglraz, Anderson has fallen apart and the rest were never top 100 guys like Weglarz. I think they skipped on Weglarz thanks to Batting average, which I feel BA really over values


Agree mostly.....but I don't think Flowers being over him is out there. Catcher over a guy who can't stay healthy and may only be a DH? Positional value needs to come in here.
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