Offseason Happenings

[Hermie13]

MLBTR reporting that the Indians are showing some interest in Adam Everett for a utility infielder role. Curious, considering he's never played anything but SS. He's also pretty solidly on the decline, you can expect that his BA would be right around the mendoza line next year. His real value - fielding - has even declined in recent years, according to the UZR ratings on Fangraphs.

I'd be disappointed if we signed him to anything but an NRI deal. Would rather go with Donald as the utility guy or even JRod.

I don't see why anyone should be suprised by any of these reports. The Tribe infield was HORRIBLE.

Antonetti and Shapiro both expressed how disappointed they were with it and mentioned fixing it as a top winter priority. The Indians have way too many groundball pitchers to continue running out the defense they did last year. The Tribe doesn't sound sold on Cabrera at SS either. I actually think he is a candidate to be traded (or even non-tendered) next year if he doesn't have a bounceback year defensively and offensively.

That said....Everrett isn't too high on my list of guys to go after. Hall and Punto are still 1-2. Above average at 3B (biggest need) and can play SS average-to-above average (same with 2B). I'll be a bit suprised (and very disappointed) if the Tribe doesn't come away with one of them this winter (unless they trade for someone equally as good defensively).

[GeronimoSon]

...Hall and Punto are still 1-2. Above average at 3B (biggest need) and can play SS average-to-above average (same with 2B)....

[TonyIBI]

Indians have officially signed catcher Paul Phillips (Rockies) to a minor league deal with invite to ST. Likely will split duties with Carlin in Triple-A, but there is a remote chance that one of Carlin/Phillips backs up Santana while Marson opens in Columbus .

[npc29]

Indians have officially signed catcher Paul Phillips (Rockies) to a minor league deal with invite to ST. Likely will split duties with Carlin in Triple-A, but there is a remote chance that one of Carlin/Phillips backs up Santana while Marson opens in Columbus .

Is that some sort of indication that they'd want to try and move Marson with a trade? Seems like the only reason to have him start in Columbus is to get him to build value. I thought the plan was to play Santana some at first, which would mean they actually need a backup catcher to play more than once or so in a week.

Or do they just not have that much confidence in Marson?

[TonyIBI]

Is that some sort of indication that they'd want to try and move Marson with a trade? Seems like the only reason to have him start in Columbus is to get him to build value. I thought the plan was to play Santana some at first, which would mean they actually need a backup catcher to play more than once or so in a week.

Or do they just not have that much confidence in Marson?

IF they start Marson in Columbus it will simply be to get everyday at bats.

He's still just 23 years old, so they may opt to keep him playing everyday as an alternative to riding pine much like Bard/Shoppach did when Victor was the catcher. Also, I haven't heard anything serious about Santana playing 1B. Even so, that would be, what, once a week maybe to keep him in the lineup (or DH)? He's gonna catch 5-6 games a week like Victor used to, which means playing time for Marson is gonna be hard to come by....unless they decide to be conservative with the knee and do in fact play Marson more. We'll see in spring training.

Could be a Bard-Victor like scenario from 2004 where Bard ended up in Buffalo.

[indianinkslinger]

Indians have officially signed catcher Paul Phillips (Rockies) to a minor league deal with invite to ST. Likely will split duties with Carlin in Triple-A, but there is a remote chance that one of Carlin/Phillips backs up Santana while Marson opens in Columbus .

Is that some sort of indication that they'd want to try and move Marson with a trade? Seems like the only reason to have him start in Columbus is to get him to build value. I thought the plan was to play Santana some at first, which would mean they actually need a backup catcher to play more than once or so in a week.

Or do they just not have that much confidence in Marson?

I would like to applaud the signings of Carlin and Phillips. Makes no difference to the ML team but is great for an organization that has its AAA club loaded with prospects rather than AAAAs. The Indians could want Marson to work on his big weakness which is his bat against RHP. But until that happens, I suspect that Marson will back up Santana and play against LHP primarily. After the injury, I am inclined to believe that Santana will get more rest from catching duties and spend more time at DH than 1B. Just my thoughts.

[GeronimoSon]

Marson, while being MLB ready defensively, has a ways to go with his understanding of how MLB pitchers approach his hitting. A bit more seasoning wouldn't hurt his long term development.. but would hurt his feelings..

W/R to a potential trade, it doesn't seem that he would be a better option than some of the FA catchers currently available. Russell Martin and Dioner Navarro may be considered comps (Martin's offense has been vastly superior in the past, but, not recently). There has been some "noise" (defined as unwanted sound) by the Rangers, Dodgers, Nationals, and Blue Jays regarding the acquisition of Zach Greinke. The Royals have shown some measure of interest in moving Greinke, but would require "up the middle" MLB ready, or near MLB ready players.. inclusive of Catcher, SP's, 2B's SS's and CF's. While the Rangers & Nationals have deep farm systems, their is a relatively limited number of "up the middle" players that they can offer the Royals for Greinke. This is where a "third party" can make a play to truly help themselves.. that is.. The Indians have the specs up the middle.. and are in need of corner guys.. If CA can 'nudge' his way into a trade like this, the Indians may be able to acquire the corner IF'er they need while "helping" to get Zach Greinke out of Kansas City..

Anything that gets Greinke out of the AL Central.. works for me....

[homerawayfromhome]

I love the idea of facilitating a deal involving Grienke. Actually Id rather be acq. him than helping them trade him but it could land the tribe the 3b baseman or rh bat they need. Hopefully the Tribe gets creative on a deal or two. Cant figure out why they wouldnt consider loading up a cpl prospects for a player who the team can control for 3-4 yrs. They could always back load a deal for after Hafners deal expires.

[TonyIBI]

No chance on Grienke. The Royals are trading him for the same reason we can't acquire him: $$$

[TonyIBI]

Mariners supposed interest in Valbuena is not correct. Up til now the Indians have not been contacted at all by the Mariners about him.

[Hermie13]

Mariners supposed interest in Valbuena is not correct. Up til now the Indians have not been contacted at all by the Mariners about him.

With J-Rod gone now too, not sure the Tribe would see much motivation to move him unless they get a ML ready middle infielder in another deal/signing.

[GeronimoSon]

A major league ready duffel bag would work too...

[petes999]

Per MLBRumors, Gimenez signs with Seattle.

"The Mariners announced they've signed four players to minor league deals with spring training invites today: outfielder Ryan Langerhans, reliever Denny Bautista, catcher Chris Gimenez, and reliever Royce Ring."

[jellis]

No chance on Grienke. The Royals are trading him for the same reason we can't acquire him: $$$

could we facilitate a deal though, I mean we could help deal with our issues of a glut up the middle players by trading them to a team for other prospects. I know I am in the minority but imagine if you could trade a guy like Kipnis to another team for a higher level spec, because KC is targeting specifically up the middle players. A guy like Phelps might be some one most fans would rather deal, but Kipnis value is so much higher and might never be higher that if a team did want to make a play for Greinke Kipnis would be an ideal candidate, as part of a package

[osueddy]

Per MLBRumors, Gimenez signs with Seattle.

"The Mariners announced they've signed four players to minor league deals with spring training invites today: outfielder Ryan Langerhans, reliever Denny Bautista, catcher Chris Gimenez, and reliever Royce Ring."

Well, that solves the problem I thought we would have in Columbus with Gimenez, Carlin, and Phillips. I wondered when looking at the depth chart how that would go, and now it's pretty simple.

I looked at Seattle's roster, and they have one catcher on the 40-man; Adam Moore. 26 year-old with a .197 avg. in 228 career at bats.

Gimenez might start!

Good for him; he was stuck in a nowhere situation with Santana and Marson.

[MadThinker88]

Per MLBRumors, Gimenez signs with Seattle.

"The Mariners announced they've signed four players to minor league deals with spring training invites today: outfielder Ryan Langerhans, reliever Denny Bautista, catcher Chris Gimenez, and reliever Royce Ring."

Well, that solves the problem I thought we would have in Columbus with Gimenez, Carlin, and Phillips. I wondered when looking at the depth chart how that would go, and now it's pretty simple.
I looked at Seattle's roster, and they have one catcher on the 40-man; Adam Moore. 26 year-old with a .197 avg. in 228 career at bats.
Gimenez might start!
Good for him; he was stuck in a nowhere situation with Santana and Marson.

Don't forget that Wedge is now the Seattle manager. He liked the ability of Giminez to 'play' multiple spots while here in Cleveland so it stands to reason he would want that flexibility somewhere else.

[davidkey]

This makes me laugh, because you hit the nail on the head. Put two and two together and the reason Gimenez is in Seattle is because of Wedge. And he'll get probably 500 at-bats playing any position on the diamond, mostly catcher, batting .220 with an OBP of .300 at best. But he's a great clubhouse guy, so Wedge will keep him around (seriously, from all I've heard, he is a class act, so I don't mean to put him down as a person whatsoever.....I just mean to put him down as a ballplayer )

Wedge is also the reason Seattle might hypothetically want to get Valbuena back... although the rumor has officially been denied, someone in Seattle, probably Wedge, must have at least casually mentioned it to someone else in the M's organization as someone he (Wedge) might be interested in having on his team..

They recently signed Jack Cust, so no need for them to re-sign Russ Branyan. At the end of the day, Wedge has his useless left-handed 1B/DH.

Seattle should be very interesting, and comical, to watch this year. The Tribe might not be good, but Seattle sure as heck won't be either.

[jellis]

This makes me laugh, because you hit the nail on the head. Put two and two together and the reason Gimenez is in Seattle is because of Wedge. And he'll get probably 500 at-bats playing any position on the diamond, mostly catcher, batting .220 with an OBP of .300 at best. But he's a great clubhouse guy, so Wedge will keep him around (seriously, from all I've heard, he is a class act, so I don't mean to put him down as a person whatsoever.....I just mean to put him down as a ballplayer )

Wedge is also the reason Seattle might hypothetically want to get Valbuena back... although the rumor has officially been denied, someone in Seattle, probably Wedge, must have at least casually mentioned it to someone else in the M's organization as someone he (Wedge) might be interested in having on his team..

They recently signed Jack Cust, so no need for them to re-sign Russ Branyan. At the end of the day, Wedge has his useless left-handed 1B/DH.

Seattle should be very interesting, and comical, to watch this year. The Tribe might not be good, but Seattle sure as heck won't be either.

You need to look to more than average for stats, Cust on the cheap is a solid pick up. Power is never easy to find, and I can't fault any team for trying.

[Edible14]

You need to look to more than average for stats, Cust on the cheap is a solid pick up. Power is never easy to find, and I can't fault any team for trying.

Branyan wasn't even a bad pickup on the cheap, he just wasn't really that great of a pickup for the Indians given where they were (that being said, maybe we'll end up with two solid major league backups out of the deal, which ain't bad). Strictly on WAR, Cust is a little better than Branyan. He's also 4 years younger.

Batting: Both strike out a lot (% usually being in the high 30s). Both are unlikely to hit above .250, as the years Cust has done it he's had a pretty high BABIP. Branyan has done it... once. However, both get quite a few walks so that their OBA is better, though Cust is much better at this (usually between 15-20% for Cust, Branyan's closer to 10%). Branyan has more power though, at least the last two years (ISO of .250 for Branyan, which is one of the best in the league, Cust has been .166 and .177 the last two years, though in 07 and 08 he was at about .250).

Defensively, Cust is an AWFUL outfielder (career UZR/150 of -22.3), while Branyan is at least a passable 1B (+3.4 UZR/150 at 1B over his career). To be fair though, if they're both DHing or playing 1B, that comparison is irrelevant or unfair. We don't actually know how good/bad Cust will be as a 1B.

So, I'll say this: if they're looking for power... Branyan is probably the better choice. But as an overall hitter, Cust is betetr by a little bit.

[davidkey]

I'm not sure there's any way to rationalize that Branyan is a decent player. Cust, an argument can be made, and taking a closer look at his 2010 stats, I see he batted .272 with a .395 OBP this past year...I didn't realize that he takes a good number of walks. I imageine his defense is atrocious, but he makes for a respectable DH, though his downfall in HR quantity raises a red flag, espeically since what Seatlle desperately needs are guys who can hit the ball over the fence.

For the sake of comparison, our own Matty LaP matches up fine with Russell, especially given that he's a lot younger and a much better fielder at 1B than Russ the Musc, and is a RH bat. Cust indisputably had a much better 2010 than Matty LaP, but LaP is still only 25 and only has about 600 total ABs as a major leaguer. He can aspire to someday be as good as Jack Cust

[Edible14]

I'm not sure there's any way to rationalize that Branyan is a good player

It's not hard when you look at his power numbers compared to the rest of the league. Measures of his overall production (wOBA, WAR) tend to say he's really not that bad. For a more detailed analysis, check this: http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/?p=28718

[Hermie13]

could we facilitate a deal though, I mean we could help deal with our issues of a glut up the middle players by trading them to a team for other prospects. I know I am in the minority but imagine if you could trade a guy like Kipnis to another team for a higher level spec, because KC is targeting specifically up the middle players. A guy like Phelps might be some one most fans would rather deal, but Kipnis value is so much higher and might never be higher that if a team did want to make a play for Greinke Kipnis would be an ideal candidate, as part of a package

I am with you here. I have said for a while the Tribe should ask around to see what Kipnis is really worth. Thought something with Toronto could work for possible Cecil....but the Jays moved Marcum for Brett Lawrie straight up.

Obviously no need to trade Kipnis, but I agree if it can get you either a higher level spec, or a high spec at a position of weakness (right-handed power or SP), you have to consider it. Could make a case that Kipnis's value may never be higher than it is now too.

[A.Zajac]

Indians have signed Adam Everett to minor league deal with invite to big league camp.

[davidkey]

Interesting. Well, now we have our (potential) back up middle infielder. He's never played a ML game at 3B, so no need to even go down that path in talking about him. Exact same offensive player as Nick Punto, but Punto has played a lot of 3B. Probably would have preferred Punto just based on that, but not exactly a big deal one way or the other.

So Everett and Valbuena battle it out in spring training for the back-up middle infielder role. Gonna guess Everett wins the spot based on his 'veteran leadership', decent defense and decent speed (never mind the terrible bat), then let Luis V. get regular AB's at Triple AAA.

Hope Luis does his usual and hits .300 at Triple AAA , and then, before they call him up to hit .200 in Cleveland, we can deal him to the National League in exchange for someone who might actually produce at the big league level. I say NL cause if he becomes a decent major leaguer, it has to happen in the NL for my own mental health. In a nightmare I can see him going to another AL team, finally becoming a decent big leaguer and having a chance to bite the Tribe 10-19 games a year.....and that would make me crazy for 10-19 nights a year.

[GeronimoSon]

Twins fans will be slightly upset the Indians didn't sign Punto thereby leaving a slight possibility for a return to them..

[Edible14]

To be honest, Everett seems washed up to me. Both his hitting and fielding have regressed basically since he left the Astros. I don't mind him as the AAA guy, but at this point I view him as a Bixler/Buscher type - major league depth at AAA that could easily be jettisoned in favor of a prospect pushing their way up.

While he would be a decent defensive replacement at SS from time-to-time, his hitting is atrocious. Though his BABIP was .234, suggesting he could be a much better hitter than his average (.185) shows, the same is basically true of Valbuena (.238 BABIP, .193 AVG). Valbuena has shown a lot more power than Everett, though Everett clearly (even given his regression) is a better fielder. Also, Valbuena is much younger, on the 40, and has at least the theoretical potential to bounce back and have a better year. So I'd give the edge to Valbuena getting the utility IF gig, but obviously spring training will have a lot to say on that.

Overall, not thrilled with the pickup, but not terribly unhappy either.

[davidkey]

Well put Edible.

This also raises the question from me for anyone who knows.....do we have to put Everett on the 40 man roster now, or only if he makes the ML squad out of spring training?

[TonyIBI]

This also raises the question from me for anyone who knows.....do we have to put Everett on the 40 man roster now, or only if he makes the ML squad out of spring training?

Only if he makes the team out of spring training. That's the reason for signing guys to NRI deals.

[davidkey]

Thanks Tony. Now, a follow-up question. If they sign someone, say Austin Kearns, to a major league contract for $750,000, then first of all, I assume he has to be added to the 40 man roster.

But if he stinks it up in April and May, can they then send him to the minors without condition (but still making his $750,000 ML salary), or since he's a veteran, would it be one of those 'designated for assignment' situations where he'd have 10 days to accept the minor league demotion, ask for his release (or be exposed to waivers?), or the Tribe could trade him?

[Edible14]

Thanks Tony. Now, a follow-up question. If they sign someone, say Austin Kearns, to a major league contract for $750,000, then first of all, I assume he has to be added to the 40 man roster.

But if he stinks it up in April and May, can they then send him to the minors without condition (but still making his $750,000 ML salary), or since he's a veteran, would it be one of those 'designated for assignment' situations where he'd have 10 days to accept the minor league demotion, ask for his release (or be exposed to waivers?), or the Tribe could trade him?

He would have to clear waivers & accept the assignment in order to be stashed in the minors. As a veteran with 5+ years of service time, he can refuse a minor league assignment, instead opting for free agency.

[TonyIBI]

Thanks Tony. Now, a follow-up question. If they sign someone, say Austin Kearns, to a major league contract for $750,000, then first of all, I assume he has to be added to the 40 man roster.

But if he stinks it up in April and May, can they then send him to the minors without condition (but still making his $750,000 ML salary), or since he's a veteran, would it be one of those 'designated for assignment' situations where he'd have 10 days to accept the minor league demotion, ask for his release (or be exposed to waivers?), or the Tribe could trade him?

Yes, when a guy is signed to a guaranteed major league contract they have to be added to the 40-man roster. Guys signed to minor league deals do not have to be added to the 40-man roster.

Also, they cannot send a guy already on the 40-man roster to the minors unless he has options left. For a player like Kearns who has a lot of service time, he would first have to be put on waivers before he could be sent to the minors and he also has the option to elect free agency instead of accepting the assignment.

Guys sent to the minors no longer make their major league salary. For 1-3 year pre-arbitration guys this means they go to the minors and make anywhere from $12K to $65K. Arb guys or those with more service time generally have it written in their contract that they get a certain amount if sent to the minors (split contract). The most anyone usually makes if sent to the minors is $100-150K. So as you can see it is a sizable decrease in pay.

Remember that when these guys get optioned out of reassigned to the minors.....they are taking a HUGE paycut.

[Hermie13]

To be honest, Everett seems washed up to me. Both his hitting and fielding have regressed basically since he left the Astros. I don't mind him as the AAA guy, but at this point I view him as a Bixler/Buscher type - major league depth at AAA that could easily be jettisoned in favor of a prospect pushing their way up.

While he would be a decent defensive replacement at SS from time-to-time, his hitting is atrocious. Though his BABIP was .234, suggesting he could be a much better hitter than his average (.185) shows, the same is basically true of Valbuena (.238 BABIP, .193 AVG). Valbuena has shown a lot more power than Everett, though Everett clearly (even given his regression) is a better fielder. Also, Valbuena is much younger, on the 40, and has at least the theoretical potential to bounce back and have a better year. So I'd give the edge to Valbuena getting the utility IF gig, but obviously spring training will have a lot to say on that.

Overall, not thrilled with the pickup, but not terribly unhappy either.

While Everett's defense has regressed, he's by far better than anything the Tribe has or has had at the position since Omar left. Based off what Antonetti has said this fall/winter, I feel he's very concerned about our horrific infield defense and wouldn't be suprised if we get another infielder before spring training starts.

[GoTribe028]

Zach Greinke, Yuniesky Betancourt, and 2 million bucks traded to the Brewers for OF Lorenzo Cain, shortstop Alcides Escobar, reliever Jeremy Jeffress, and pitching prospect Jake Odorizzi

[npc29]

Holy smokes what a package... Remember when Milwaukee refused to include both LaPorta AND Escobar in the Sabathia deal?

[MadThinker88]

A very interesting week. 2 of the better pitchers (Lee & Greinke) depart the American League. The Tribe offense needs to take a step or two forward this coming year (injuries or not) and these departures should help.

[Rocky55]

Zach Greinke, Yuniesky Betancourt, and 2 million bucks traded to the Brewers for OF Lorenzo Cain, shortstop Alcides Escobar, reliever Jeremy Jeffress, and pitching prospect Jake Odorizzi

Not sure I like this deal from either side.

Royals get Escobar, great fielder, who knows if he ever hits. Plays next year at 24yrs old. Jeffress, IMO, a young RH Tony Sipp. Cain=Brantley-Lite. Odorizzi is a guy a lot of us liked in the Chisenhall draft. He went a couple of picks after Chiz, I believe. Very good spec, not a power pitcher but was said to be very advanced HS pitcher. If all of these guys hit, great trade. High bust potential.

Brews get a top SP with relatively cheap contract for 2 years, with a little salary relief, plus a replacement SS. Makes sense for them if they are realistically competetive during the next 2 years; are they?

[A.Zajac]

Zach Greinke, Yuniesky Betancourt, and 2 million bucks traded to the Brewers for OF Lorenzo Cain, shortstop Alcides Escobar, reliever Jeremy Jeffress, and pitching prospect Jake Odorizzi

Not sure I like this deal from either side.

Royals get Escobar, great fielder, who knows if he ever hits. Plays next year at 24yrs old. Jeffress, IMO, a young RH Tony Sipp. Cain=Brantley-Lite. Odorizzi is a guy a lot of us liked in the Chisenhall draft. He went a couple of picks after Chiz, I believe. Very good spec, not a power pitcher but was said to be very advanced HS pitcher. If all of these guys hit, great trade. High bust potential.

Brews get a top SP with relatively cheap contract for 2 years, with a little salary relief, plus a replacement SS. Makes sense for them if they are realistically competetive during the next 2 years; are they?

I think a lot rests on Fielder's shoulders.

[Rocky55]

Zach Greinke, Yuniesky Betancourt, and 2 million bucks traded to the Brewers for OF Lorenzo Cain, shortstop Alcides Escobar, reliever Jeremy Jeffress, and pitching prospect Jake Odorizzi

Not sure I like this deal from either side.

Royals get Escobar, great fielder, who knows if he ever hits. Plays next year at 24yrs old. Jeffress, IMO, a young RH Tony Sipp. Cain=Brantley-Lite. Odorizzi is a guy a lot of us liked in the Chisenhall draft. He went a couple of picks after Chiz, I believe. Very good spec, not a power pitcher but was said to be very advanced HS pitcher. If all of these guys hit, great trade. High bust potential.

Brews get a top SP with relatively cheap contract for 2 years, with a little salary relief, plus a replacement SS. Makes sense for them if they are realistically competetive during the next 2 years; are they?

I think a lot rests on Fielder's shoulders.

Good point. Also forgot to add that with Greinke, Gallardo, Marcum, & Wolf, they have the makings of a pretty fine rotation.

[dazindiansfanuk]

Zach Greinke, Yuniesky Betancourt, and 2 million bucks traded to the Brewers for OF Lorenzo Cain, shortstop Alcides Escobar, reliever Jeremy Jeffress, and pitching prospect Jake Odorizzi

Not sure I like this deal from either side.

Royals get Escobar, great fielder, who knows if he ever hits. Plays next year at 24yrs old. Jeffress, IMO, a young RH Tony Sipp. Cain=Brantley-Lite. Odorizzi is a guy a lot of us liked in the Chisenhall draft. He went a couple of picks after Chiz, I believe. Very good spec, not a power pitcher but was said to be very advanced HS pitcher. If all of these guys hit, great trade. High bust potential.

Brews get a top SP with relatively cheap contract for 2 years, with a little salary relief, plus a replacement SS. Makes sense for them if they are realistically competetive during the next 2 years; are they?

I think a lot rests on Fielder's shoulders.

Let's not forget they picked up Marcum too.

For a team who's biggest weakness last year was their starting pitching, to have a top 4 of Greinke, Gallardo, Marcum and Wolf is a good bunch to have supporting a solid and potentially potent offense (if all of Fielder, Braun, Weeks, McGeehee and Hart fire).

[MadThinker88]

I think a lot rests on Fielder's shoulders.

I think the Brew Crew has more offensively then we are giving them credit for. Ryan Braun is a beast in LF (25 hrs and 45 doubles while hitting .304) and Corey Hart in RF had 31 hrs & 34 doubles.

Their starting pitching was letting them down (15th in era in the NL). Getting Marcum and Grienke definitely bolsters that group.

[Pork Chop Pough]

Interesting trade... I think I like it a little better for Milwaukee for getting the more sure thing. It could turn out better for KC, but I think it's completely riding on Odorizzi reaching his ceiling... or at least being useful if Cain can become more than he appears to be at this point.

Milwaukee probably becomes a front-runner for a playoff spot the next couple of years with a front four of Greinke-Gallardo-Marcum-Wolfe, and five guys in their lineup who hit 23+ home runs last year. Still, St. Louis and Cincinnati can give them a battle for the Central and another 2-3 teams in the mix for the wild card, so it's no sure thing.

KC got four "name" prospects, but Odorizzi is the only one who hasn't shown any serious flaws yet. They get a shortstop and center fielder who can both step in to their starting lineup, but it's questionable whether either one will ever hit enough. Neither Escobar nor Cain have shown good patience or special contact skills, and since neither one has any pop at this point (and Escobar is clearly never going to develop any), their value is seriously tied up in their BABIP. Jeffress is a power reliever, but lacks command and is one failed drug test away from getting kicked out of the game. You have to like the start to Odorizzi's career, and he could be a future #2 starter. If he does, the Royals did well, but if he completely misses, I don't see enough talent in the other parts.

[dazindiansfanuk]

Fangraphs take

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.ph ... r-greinke/

"Quantity over quality"

Elsewhere, it's being reported that the Royals were close to a deal to send Greinke to Washington, but the Nats were on his no-trade list and he wouldn't approve the deal.

[GeronimoSon]

Interesting trade... I think I like it a little better for Milwaukee for getting the more sure thing. It could turn out better for KC, but I think it's completely riding on Odorizzi reaching his ceiling... or at least being useful if Cain can become more than he appears to be at this point.

Milwaukee probably becomes a front-runner for a playoff spot the next couple of years with a front four of Greinke-Gallardo-Marcum-Wolfe, and five guys in their lineup who hit 23+ home runs last year. Still, St. Louis and Cincinnati can give them a battle for the Central and another 2-3 teams in the mix for the wild card, so it's no sure thing.

KC got four "name" prospects, but Odorizzi is the only one who hasn't shown any serious flaws yet. They get a shortstop and center fielder who can both step in to their starting lineup, but it's questionable whether either one will ever hit enough. Neither Escobar nor Cain have shown good patience or special contact skills, and since neither one has any pop at this point (and Escobar is clearly never going to develop any), their value is seriously tied up in their BABIP. Jeffress is a power reliever, but lacks command and is one failed drug test away from getting kicked out of the game. You have to like the start to Odorizzi's career, and he could be a future #2 starter. If he does, the Royals did well, but if he completely misses, I don't see enough talent in the other parts.

Like with most trades for established players.. the immediate results or short term return almost always favors the team that recieves the established player.. it's 2 or 3 years before the full effect of the trade can and should be evaluated. Example: The CC Sabathia Trade.. three months and two weeks of stellar pitching from CC propelled the Brewers into the playoffs..they go what they wanted.. The guys the indians recieved in return.. have yet to be fully established MLB Players... Net: Brewers won this one..so far. If by change Brantley continues to contribute and LaPorta becomes the power hitting 1B and Bryson makes it to MLB and becomes an effective pitcher.. then it's a landslide win for the Indians.. at least one of the three players still in the Indians system have to meet expectations for the trade to be considered equal...

[A.Zajac]

Tell ya what, a trend I'm noticing... aside from the BoSox, the NL is very pitching heavy... AL very hitter heavy.

[Pork Chop Pough]

Like with most trades for established players.. the immediate results or short term return almost always favors the team that recieves the established player.. it's 2 or 3 years before the full effect of the trade can and should be evaluated. Example: The CC Sabathia Trade.. three months and two weeks of stellar pitching from CC propelled the Brewers into the playoffs..they go what they wanted.. The guys the indians recieved in return.. have yet to be fully established MLB Players... Net: Brewers won this one..so far. If by change Brantley continues to contribute and LaPorta becomes the power hitting 1B and Bryson makes it to MLB and becomes an effective pitcher.. then it's a landslide win for the Indians.. at least one of the three players still in the Indians system have to meet expectations for the trade to be considered equal...

Thanks for all that rehash, but I'm already aware of the concept of a now-for-later/rebuild trade. I think everyone knows the full value of this deal is years away from being determined, but since when is the point of internet forums to say, "Great, I guess we'll all wait and see what happens over the next 5 years"? The point is that, IMO, too much of the value coming back to KC is wrapped up in Odorizzi making the long road to becoming at least a #2 starter. Escobar and Cain as defensive specialists aren't worth a couple years of Greinke if you have a chance to parlay that into a playoff appearance or two... maybe if Jeffress ends up replacing Joakim Soria effectively for a few years, but I'd still demand more for Greinke considering he should no doubt be an ace in the NL Central... and Texas, for one, quite possibly could have topped that package.

[Rocky55]

Like with most trades for established players.. the immediate results or short term return almost always favors the team that recieves the established player.. it's 2 or 3 years before the full effect of the trade can and should be evaluated. Example: The CC Sabathia Trade.. three months and two weeks of stellar pitching from CC propelled the Brewers into the playoffs..they go what they wanted.. The guys the indians recieved in return.. have yet to be fully established MLB Players... Net: Brewers won this one..so far. If by change Brantley continues to contribute and LaPorta becomes the power hitting 1B and Bryson makes it to MLB and becomes an effective pitcher.. then it's a landslide win for the Indians.. at least one of the three players still in the Indians system have to meet expectations for the trade to be considered equal...

Thanks for all that rehash, but I'm already aware of the concept of a now-for-later/rebuild trade. I think everyone knows the full value of this deal is years away from being determined, but since when is the point of internet forums to say, "Great, I guess we'll all wait and see what happens over the next 5 years"? The point is that, IMO, too much of the value coming back to KC is wrapped up in Odorizzi making the long road to becoming at least a #2 starter. Escobar and Cain as defensive specialists aren't worth a couple years of Greinke if you have a chance to parlay that into a playoff appearance or two... maybe if Jeffress ends up replacing Joakim Soria effectively for a few years, but I'd still demand more for Greinke considering he should no doubt be an ace in the NL Central... and Texas, for one, quite possibly could have topped that package.

Agree with Clyde Clay's assessment & would add that Betancourt, while only decent defensively, has some pop at the SS position, which could make the Brews even more dangerous.
The Brews are pushing to compete now. Whether all of the parts fit is yet to be seen.

[A.Zajac]

Pair of signings this morning to report:

Travis Buck inked to a minor league deal with invite to Spring Training.
Austin Kearns inked to a one-year major league contract.

[seatribe]

With the Kearns signing, the Indians need to remove someone from the 40 man roster. Any ideas Tony?

[toledobuck]

Can't really complain about resigning Kearns to be our veteran RH OF this year. He played well last year and netted a decent prospect when dealt to the NYY. I like the Kearns signing. Kearns and Duncan can compete for the RH bench stick. They both could actually make the team though as well.

I have not seen anything about signing Travis Buck but he is not bad either. He has had some experience playing in the majors with OAK and has a decent line drive / .280 average type offensive game. Not sure where he will play in the AAA OF though with the prospects we have there.

As far as 40 removal, I think that Germano is likely gone.

[GoTribe028]

Pair of signings this morning to report:

Travis Buck inked to a minor league deal with invite to Spring Training.
Austin Kearns inked to a one-year major league contract.

I like both of these pickups. However Buck and Weglarz might be able to combine into 1 healthy OF