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Offseason Happenings

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:43 pm

seatribe wrote:With the Kearns signing, the Indians need to remove someone from the 40 man roster. Any ideas Tony?


As I said in the other post, this has to be one of Duncan, Crowe, or Brown IMO. At the ML level you now have Choo, Branltey, Grady and Kearns for the OF.

In AAA you have Crowe, Carrerra, Weglarz, and Brown (and maybe a lil Goedert).

Even if we use Duncan as the 25th man and only carry 1 utility infielder, the OF is very, very crowded on the 40-man.

And if you do keep Duncan as a backup 1B/5th OFer (or Crowe as the 5th OFer), you would basically have to use Valbuena then as the utility infielder as I can't see us using Everett or Goedert since one can only play SS and the other can't play SS at all (and hasn't played 2B much of late).


And even if the Tribe is concerned with Grady's health, you can still cut Duncan. Just use Crowe as the 4th OFer (has nothing left to do in AAA anyways). Or if you cut Crowe use Duncan.

Bottom line, there's no room and no need for all 3 of Kearns, Duncan, and Crowe on the 40-man.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:51 pm

npc29 wrote:Holy smokes what a package... Remember when Milwaukee refused to include both LaPorta AND Escobar in the Sabathia deal?


Think this is a pretty weak package actually. Cain was also rumored to be one of the 4 guys possibly on the Tribe's PTNBL list.

This is a better package than the one the Tribe got...then again, the Tribe gave up only half a year of CC....and didn't include Blake (aka, Betancourt). Take Odorizzi out and this looks a lot like Laporta, Brantley, and Bryson to me. I'd have expected more than just Odorizzi on top of that for Greinke who has 2 years left (at least).

Still a solid haul though for the Royals, just not amazing IMO.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:46 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
npc29 wrote:Holy smokes what a package... Remember when Milwaukee refused to include both LaPorta AND Escobar in the Sabathia deal?


Think this is a pretty weak package actually. Cain was also rumored to be one of the 4 guys possibly on the Tribe's PTNBL list.

This is a better package than the one the Tribe got...then again, the Tribe gave up only half a year of CC....and didn't include Blake (aka, Betancourt). Take Odorizzi out and this looks a lot like Laporta, Brantley, and Bryson to me. I'd have expected more than just Odorizzi on top of that for Greinke who has 2 years left (at least).

Still a solid haul though for the Royals, just not amazing IMO.
The inclusion of a mlb middle infielder appears to be the key.. It seems doubtful the Royals would have gotten a kid like Escobar from anyone else.. Middle infield is by far the weakest part of their system. With that said. getting a reformed druggie, the best arm in the Brewer's system and a projectable CF'er.. makes this a good trade.. Dumping Betancourt..just makes it better.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:49 pm

Signing Kearns sounds like a decent insurance policy in the face of Grady Sizemore's status. It's doubtful he stays the entire season (Z-Mac Trade, part dieux?).. If he does stay..it'll be because his performance is outstanding.. or so bad, no one will have interest... Not a bad vet to have around.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:06 am

seatribe wrote:With the Kearns signing, the Indians need to remove someone from the 40 man roster. Any ideas Tony?


Likely will be Duncan. Maybe Brown, but I think he's still a ML option for them to start the season. They know Duncan will clear waivers.....whether he accepts outright to AAA as a second time 40-man removal is another thing as he could refuse and become a free agent.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:32 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:The inclusion of a mlb middle infielder appears to be the key.. It seems doubtful the Royals would have gotten a kid like Escobar from anyone else.. Middle infield is by far the weakest part of their system. With that said. getting a reformed druggie, the best arm in the Brewer's system and a projectable CF'er.. makes this a good trade.. Dumping Betancourt..just makes it better.


Escobar had a falling out of sorts with the Brewers though. And considering the year he had offensively, his stock is down. And Jeffries is a reformed druggie? Seems a little early on that. Even if he is, he's a bullpen guy now, which lowers his value.

Every has their own opinion of this deal...but haven't seen many from scouts/analysts that truely likes this for the Royals (Olney does though for what it's worth). And with no need to deal him now (could have waited a month or even til the trade deadline), most feel they jumped the gun and took quantity over quality.

I do like Cain a lot though, I'll say that. Escobar though reminds me of a worse hitting/better fielding Cabrera. Not overly impressed with him. Though perhaps he'll have a brandon phillips like turn around offensively (minus the power). Can't argue against his defense either. Again, not a bad deal...but leaves much to be desired IMO.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:49 am

Some ex-Indians signing elsewhere on minor league deals: -

Brian Barton - Reds

Damaso Espino - Dodgers

Fernando Cabrera - Athletics

Zach Jackson - Rangers

Michael Aubrey - Nationals
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:03 am

It was nice to see Michael Aubrey hook on with the Nationals.. He's not had many "breaks" in his attempt to reach the major leagues. When he's right, he can rake.. and his glove makes him a value that isn't easily replaced.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby jellis » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:57 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:It was nice to see Michael Aubrey hook on with the Nationals.. He's not had many "breaks" in his attempt to reach the major leagues. When he's right, he can rake.. and his glove makes him a value that isn't easily replaced.



Anyone laugh at this and think about the ridiculous Aubrey to Bmore trade statements from 2 years ago
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:03 pm

jellis wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:It was nice to see Michael Aubrey hook on with the Nationals.. He's not had many "breaks" in his attempt to reach the major leagues. When he's right, he can rake.. and his glove makes him a value that isn't easily replaced.



Anyone laugh at this and think about the ridiculous Aubrey to Bmore trade statements from 2 years ago

yeah, a bit but Aubrey seemed to be an ok guy who just broke down and could not hit or defend at the ML level much less be an all-star that Voldemort claimed he would become. The three #1s from that year were all snakebit healthwise. Tough breaks but part of the game.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:11 pm

jellis wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:It was nice to see Michael Aubrey hook on with the Nationals.. He's not had many "breaks" in his attempt to reach the major leagues. When he's right, he can rake.. and his glove makes him a value that isn't easily replaced.



Anyone laugh at this and think about the ridiculous Aubrey to Bmore trade statements from 2 years ago

While not seeing the value in "laughing" about the circumstances that led to Michael Aubrey's departure.. it can be said that not many of those posters who made "trade statements" can have anything but well wishes for his new situation... :pleasantry:
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:26 pm

It does seem fitting that Aubrey should play for the same team that once gambled on Nick Johnson's health.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby davidkey » Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:54 am

The main thing I recall about Aubrey is that he was really un-athletic looking, had that silly open stance at the plate, and he was pretty darned ugly (not quite in Shelley Duncan territory, but not far off). From a top 10 draft pick who tore up the minors until injuries hit, I was at least expecting a guy who looked like a baseball player.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby jellis » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:11 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
jellis wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:It was nice to see Michael Aubrey hook on with the Nationals.. He's not had many "breaks" in his attempt to reach the major leagues. When he's right, he can rake.. and his glove makes him a value that isn't easily replaced.



Anyone laugh at this and think about the ridiculous Aubrey to Bmore trade statements from 2 years ago

While not seeing the value in "laughing" about the circumstances that led to Michael Aubrey's departure.. it can be said that not many of those posters who made "trade statements" can have anything but well wishes for his new situation... :pleasantry:




you werent yet a part of the board when we had a now banned member go on a multi page tirade about Aubrey being traded for cash when he should have be showcased to upgrade his trade value and get real value for him. I wish nothing against the guy, was more the humor of a former posters tirades
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:31 pm

Another outfielder has left the org as 6-year minor league free agent Lucas Montero has signed a minor league deal with the Tampa Bay Rays.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:33 pm

With the signing of Adrian Beltre by the Rangers (5 years, $ 80 MM), this gives the Red Sox two more high draft picks for the 2011 first entry draft.. it also reduces by one the number of teams that will be looking to sign Vlad Guerero as a RH DH for the coming 2011 season. There are two RH DH's that are still on the Market.. Manny & Vlad.. hmm?...
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:39 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:There are two RH DH's that are still on the Market.. Manny & Vlad.. hmm?...


Twins and Rays maybe? Mariners? A's?
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:22 pm

TonyIPI wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:There are two RH DH's that are still on the Market.. Manny & Vlad.. hmm?...


Twins and Rays maybe? Mariners? A's?


I'd throw the Angels in there. Missing out on Beltre and Crawford hurts. They finished 27th in MLB in OBP last year. That must be improved if they want any chance of catching the Rangers and A's. Even in Chicago where Manny "sucked" he had an OBP over .400. If the Angels can move Napoli it'll open some ABs at DH for Manny. Maybe play some LF and do a platoon of sorts with Abreu (switching between LF and DH).
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:58 pm

8 player deal today between the Cubbies and Rays with the headliner of Matt Garza heading to the Cubs for one of our old buddies, Chris Archer along with others.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:37 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:8 player deal today between the Cubbies and Rays with the headliner of Matt Garza heading to the Cubs for one of our old buddies, Chris Archer along with others.


Pretty sweet haul for the Rays from what the reports are (wonder who the minor league pitcher they are sending is).

Granted the Cubs don't have the best farm system (though one pro scout did said they have more future MLs than any organization)....but they traded their #1 prospect (according to BA) in Archer, their #4 prospect in Lee, their #10 prospect in Guyer and their "best defensive catcher" in Chirinos.

Well played Rays.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:39 pm

Bet the Carmona rumors kick up a notch now that Garza is off the market.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby A.Zajac » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:17 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:8 player deal today between the Cubbies and Rays with the headliner of Matt Garza heading to the Cubs for one of our old buddies, Chris Archer along with others.


Pretty sweet haul for the Rays from what the reports are (wonder who the minor league pitcher they are sending is).

Granted the Cubs don't have the best farm system (though one pro scout did said they have more future MLs than any organization)....but they traded their #1 prospect (according to BA) in Archer, their #4 prospect in Lee, their #10 prospect in Guyer and their "best defensive catcher" in Chirinos.

Well played Rays.


Disagree with you, Hermie. While the haul may look good on paper, Cubs system isn't exactly loaded. IMO, these guys are solid prospects, but none of them strike me as potential super star guys. IMO, Rays could have done better.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby jellis » Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:35 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:8 player deal today between the Cubbies and Rays with the headliner of Matt Garza heading to the Cubs for one of our old buddies, Chris Archer along with others.


Pretty sweet haul for the Rays from what the reports are (wonder who the minor league pitcher they are sending is).

Granted the Cubs don't have the best farm system (though one pro scout did said they have more future MLs than any organization)....but they traded their #1 prospect (according to BA) in Archer, their #4 prospect in Lee, their #10 prospect in Guyer and their "best defensive catcher" in Chirinos.

Well played Rays.


Disagree with you, Hermie. While the haul may look good on paper, Cubs system isn't exactly loaded. IMO, these guys are solid prospects, but none of them strike me as potential super star guys. IMO, Rays could have done better.



Archer and the SS are both top 50 guys at this point. This is a better deal than the Greinke deal, but as a side note I think Escobar is a Util IF in the future which hurt that deal to me
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby A.Zajac » Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:52 pm

jellis wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:8 player deal today between the Cubbies and Rays with the headliner of Matt Garza heading to the Cubs for one of our old buddies, Chris Archer along with others.


Pretty sweet haul for the Rays from what the reports are (wonder who the minor league pitcher they are sending is).

Granted the Cubs don't have the best farm system (though one pro scout did said they have more future MLs than any organization)....but they traded their #1 prospect (according to BA) in Archer, their #4 prospect in Lee, their #10 prospect in Guyer and their "best defensive catcher" in Chirinos.

Well played Rays.


Disagree with you, Hermie. While the haul may look good on paper, Cubs system isn't exactly loaded. IMO, these guys are solid prospects, but none of them strike me as potential super star guys. IMO, Rays could have done better.



Archer and the SS are both top 50 guys at this point. This is a better deal than the Greinke deal, but as a side note I think Escobar is a Util IF in the future which hurt that deal to me


It's better than the Greinke deal, still don't love it, though. If I were the Rays, I would have held out for 3 solid prospects rather than 2 + a ton of crap.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby indianinkslinger » Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:46 am

I am not a big follower of other minor league systems but it appears to me that the Rays may have done something quite similar to what the Tribe did in the Lee trade. They concentrated more on players of need but were good prospects rather than the best possible prospects. A knowledgeable friend of mine told me that the Indians could have had Michael Taylor, albeit at the cost of another player, instead of Donald and Marson. But the Indians felt they needed ML ready help at MI and C so went with good but lower ceiling prospects.

At the time, Taylor was considered to be a better prospect and may wind up being better than both Donald and Marson. Things have cooled a bit for Taylor but even if they hadn't, it could be argued convincingly that the Tribe helped itself more with Donald and Marson. In the absence of Cabrera and Santana in the lineup, both have served the Indians well in the rebuilding process. Now, we have some highly rated MI and Catching prospects but we didn't then. And both prospect pitchers look to be viable but as yet unproven. Some may disagree, but I think it worked out for the Indians. I think it will for the Rays as well.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby indianinkslinger » Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:58 am

After reading eddy's fine work on our organization, I stumbled across this article where the author puts a numerical value on Sickel's rating. Not real scientific but interesting nonetheless. As jellis pointed out, the #1 organization is KC but I don't think we needed this list to tell us that. The Tribe came in at #3 virtually tied with #4 Atlanta. The recent Garza trade will boost the Rays considerably I suspect.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/1/7 ... m-rankings
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Hermie13 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:34 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:8 player deal today between the Cubbies and Rays with the headliner of Matt Garza heading to the Cubs for one of our old buddies, Chris Archer along with others.


Pretty sweet haul for the Rays from what the reports are (wonder who the minor league pitcher they are sending is).

Granted the Cubs don't have the best farm system (though one pro scout did said they have more future MLs than any organization)....but they traded their #1 prospect (according to BA) in Archer, their #4 prospect in Lee, their #10 prospect in Guyer and their "best defensive catcher" in Chirinos.

Well played Rays.


Disagree with you, Hermie. While the haul may look good on paper, Cubs system isn't exactly loaded. IMO, these guys are solid prospects, but none of them strike me as potential super star guys. IMO, Rays could have done better.



Well guess it depends on how good you think Garza is. He's not an Ace like Greinke or Lee. While his ERA was pretty solid his FIP and xFIP were nothing super special (worse than teammate Shields actually). He is young and has 3 years of controllability left, but he's a #2/3 SP. Getting 3 top 10s and a solid defensive catcher is pretty good IMO even if it's only the Cubs' prospects.

Guess I just never saw Garza getting a mammoth package of prospects. Think they could have gotten 1 star prospect if they truely wanted I guess, but I agree with Ink on this one.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby jellis » Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:43 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
jellis wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:8 player deal today between the Cubbies and Rays with the headliner of Matt Garza heading to the Cubs for one of our old buddies, Chris Archer along with others.


Pretty sweet haul for the Rays from what the reports are (wonder who the minor league pitcher they are sending is).

Granted the Cubs don't have the best farm system (though one pro scout did said they have more future MLs than any organization)....but they traded their #1 prospect (according to BA) in Archer, their #4 prospect in Lee, their #10 prospect in Guyer and their "best defensive catcher" in Chirinos.

Well played Rays.


Disagree with you, Hermie. While the haul may look good on paper, Cubs system isn't exactly loaded. IMO, these guys are solid prospects, but none of them strike me as potential super star guys. IMO, Rays could have done better.



Archer and the SS are both top 50 guys at this point. This is a better deal than the Greinke deal, but as a side note I think Escobar is a Util IF in the future which hurt that deal to me


It's better than the Greinke deal, still don't love it, though. If I were the Rays, I would have held out for 3 solid prospects rather than 2 + a ton of crap.


Its a horrible deal for the cubs, and advanced metrics point out Garza being the 4 or 5th best starter for the cubs. Every cubs fan I know hates it, They arent winning so why give up a high upside SS and a pitcher like Archer who has figured it out enough to be at worst Chris Perez. That is currently his floor, not sure if everyone realizes how much he has turned it around. The rays are giving them back two specs one i heard is Fernando Perez who is 28. In the current day and age 2 top 50 specs in all of baseball should never be in one deal unless your getting a bonafide top 3% player
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:46 pm

The comment about Chris Archer being at least Chris Perez would be a huge shock for Archer.. he's only been a starter throughout his minor league career ( save for one or non-starts each of five years). It would require at least a half year or more in the minors before he could be counted on for middle relief or set up role at higher levels of the Rays organization.. The smart path the Rays may follow.. and perhaps the best thing in the long run for Archer would be as a starter in AA for the Rays.. then move him up to AAA if he continues to progress. Only if he struggles shoulda role in the bullpen be considered..Being projected as a # 3 type starter in the ML's is pretty high praise... The Rays have other issues to deal with.. The Rays still have an immediately problem with their closing position.. With the money they've saved not paying Garza.. they may be able to afford bringing back Soriano, even if it's for one year.. or another candidate...

Overall.. this is a decent trade for the Rays based on their needs and their finacial situation. Higher end prospects are always better.. the two the Rays obtained further builds their farm system.. while maintaining a competitive big league club... The Rays are hoping to show that this is how a farm system is supposed to work.. Good luck to them.. "..except when their interests conflict with the Indians' interests...." :diablo:
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:24 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:The comment about Chris Archer being at least Chris Perez would be a huge shock for Archer.. he's only been a starter throughout his minor league career ( save for one or non-starts each of five years). It would require at least a half year or more in the minors before he could be counted on for middle relief or set up role at higher levels of the Rays organization.. The smart path the Rays may follow.. and perhaps the best thing in the long run for Archer would be as a starter in AA for the Rays.. then move him up to AAA if he continues to progress. Only if he struggles shoulda role in the bullpen be considered..Being projected as a # 3 type starter in the ML's is pretty high praise... The Rays have other issues to deal with.. The Rays still have an immediately problem with their closing position.. With the money they've saved not paying Garza.. they may be able to afford bringing back Soriano, even if it's for one year.. or another candidate...

Overall.. this is a decent trade for the Rays based on their needs and their finacial situation. Higher end prospects are always better.. the two the Rays obtained further builds their farm system.. while maintaining a competitive big league club... The Rays are hoping to show that this is how a farm system is supposed to work.. Good luck to them.. "..except when their interests conflict with the Indians' interests...." :diablo:


Archer still has a lot of work to do on his changeup though. You could continue to pitch well in the minors, but you can't get by in the MLs too often with only a fastball/slider. Granted most reports do say his changeup should be at least average....but a closer/setup guy could be in his future.

I see him as more a Raffy Perez. If that 3rd pitch progresses he'll remain a starter. If it doesn't (like it never did for Raff) then he'll be moved to the pen at the ML level (Raffy actually started all but 1 game before he was called up in 2007 for the Bisons).


As far as the deal for the Cubs....I agree they gave up a lot, though I do think they could win the NL Central (in the minority I know). Fully expect that division to be the most exciting in baseball this year. Wouldn't suprise me if no team won 90 but 5 have at least 80 wins (worry Pirates, maybe 2012 lol). I'd say the Cubs are the longest shot of the big 4 in that division to win it.....but the fact that Garza is under team control for 3 more years does help some IMO. I wouldn't have done this deal as constructed, but don't think it's horrible for the Cubs.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:33 pm

When you talk to cub fans and read their thread postings... you would have thought Jim Hendry had sent away Ernie Banks and then had his news conference to discuss it at Ron Santo's grave site while pissing on it... The Cubs did themselves proud by getting a M.O.R. / F.O.R. SP who's under team control as you've stated.. Arch.. okay.. good kid.. probably a closer, could remain a starter.. The Rays will figure that out.. Hak-ju Lee.. is a good gooooood middle infield prospect..The Cubs are gonna miss him.. Chirinos is a better version of Kelly Shoppach right now.. The other two guys provide some interest.. Including Sam Fuld fills a MLB roster need for a 4th/5th OF'er.. The Rays, with their depth at SP, won't miss Garza.. unless the injury bug bites..then they'll rue this trade.. The Rays did free up some committed money to acquire a DH for their lineup.. Vlad would be a perfect fit for them.. If the Rays pen can be patched together, they could repeat in the AL East.. in spite of their big spending competition...
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:57 am

Interesting quote from Paulie Hoynes posted on the MLB Trade Rumors site..
"It doesn't really matter how much interest the Indians have in a free-agent pitcher...it's all about how much interest the pitcher has in the Indians," Hoynes writes. "As for the second prong, unless ownership is overcome by an unusual circumstance, the interested pitcher would have to sign a minor-league contract."

Essentially..Paulie Hoynes is claiming/advocating the "tail wagging the dog" w/r to certain FA pitchers & their interest in staying in the major leagues.. Point of clarification for Paulie Hoynes: Chen or Millwood would be luggage porters if they get a chance for a gig in the Majors.. not the other way around.. Oh.. and he added the usual "ownership is cheap" snipe... :reallyshocked:
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby toledobuck » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:51 pm

I read in ESPN that the Indians appear to be looking at signing a FA starter for a cheap 1 year deal. They seem to be targeting Bruce Chen or Kevin Millwood........ I like the thought of adding a vet starter but would like some different options with higher upside (ie E. Bedard, J. Duchscherer, B. Sheets).
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby npc29 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm

toledobuck wrote:I read in ESPN that the Indians appear to be looking at signing a FA starter for a cheap 1 year deal. They seem to be targeting Bruce Chen or Kevin Millwood........ I like the thought of adding a vet starter but would like some different options with higher upside (ie E. Bedard, J. Duchscherer, B. Sheets).


I agree but those guys will all cost some sort of guaranteed money, and beyond that a guaranteed roster spot. I don't think it's the money so much the Indians don't want to be handcuffed to giving that player a shot. I think they'd rather sign them to a minor league deal and let them win a spot if need be.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby toledobuck » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:38 pm

The thought of giving a starting slot to Huff, Tomlin, Gomez, Reyes, etc does not bode well at all. We can easily open up a slot on the 40 to get a stopgap decent starter FA signed.

npc29 wrote:
toledobuck wrote:I read in ESPN that the Indians appear to be looking at signing a FA starter for a cheap 1 year deal. They seem to be targeting Bruce Chen or Kevin Millwood........ I like the thought of adding a vet starter but would like some different options with higher upside (ie E. Bedard, J. Duchscherer, B. Sheets).


I agree but those guys will all cost some sort of guaranteed money, and beyond that a guaranteed roster spot. I don't think it's the money so much the Indians don't want to be handcuffed to giving that player a shot. I think they'd rather sign them to a minor league deal and let them win a spot if need be.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:13 am

toledobuck wrote:I read in ESPN that the Indians appear to be looking at signing a FA starter for a cheap 1 year deal. They seem to be targeting Bruce Chen or Kevin Millwood........ I like the thought of adding a vet starter but would like some different options with higher upside (ie E. Bedard, J. Duchscherer, B. Sheets).


Don't believe everything you read. :wink:

Looks like ESPN is picking up on Hoynes piece from earlier in the week where he SPECULATED that the Indians may try to sign Millwood and Chen to minor league deals.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby theshow » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:23 pm

Random question: What is going to become of Jeremy Sowers? He completely fell off the face of the earth this year and became irrelevant.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:48 pm

Here's a random question that seems to be unanswered: and it's meant as no disrespect to Tim Belcher.. who's work should be appreciated...

What has David Huff done to warrant the praise from the Indians pitching coach, Tim Belcher, as a potential # 5 starter? He wasn't able to give the Indians much of a chance to win games last year.. then was sent to the minors in Columbus.. where his W/L looked good, but he wasn't particularly efficient or improved.. except for his K/BB ratio, nothing else was eye opening or really changed that much with his peripherals... and,.. he didn't finish the season pitching well... Is he a late bloomer?. miracle?. IDK. What has David Huff done that gives you any confidence he's going to become a bona fide ML pitcher ?.. :dunno:
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:37 pm

No sure on Sowers, but he had an injury if I recall at end of last season. Teams may be staying clear.

As for Belcher-Huff.....Belcher's "comments" on Huff this offseason were lip service if you ask me. Don't believe he meant a single word of it.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Edible14 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:18 pm

toledobuck wrote:The thought of giving a starting slot to Huff, Tomlin, Gomez, Reyes, etc does not bode well at all. We can easily open up a slot on the 40 to get a stopgap decent starter FA signed.


Why would Tomlin getting the #5 spot be a bad thing? He pitched relatively well last year, and now has to make some adjustments as the league makes adjustments to him. So... why not give him a shot? Huff could have a bounceback year. McAllister, Gomez, and Kluber are all legit prospects in AAA who could use a shot at the rotation sometime this year. Even Reyes wasn't horrible before he was hurt.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby artgold » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:06 am

Tomlin had a decent % of Quality Starts in his stint with the Tribe, and clearly deserves a shot to be in the rotation. He does have a bit of a flyball tendency, so obviously giving up HRs could be an issue. But he has shown to be a successful battler in the past, and even if he has a rough spot I'm pretty confident he is resilient enough to have some success in the majors.

I'd pencil him in as a starter for this coming season.

A rotation of Carmona, Masterson, Carrasco, Talbot and Tomlin won't get you a championship, but this isn't a bad starting point to evaluate what you may have going forward.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby theshow » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:16 am

artgold wrote:Tomlin had a decent % of Quality Starts in his stint with the Tribe, and clearly deserves a shot to be in the rotation. He does have a bit of a flyball tendency, so obviously giving up HRs could be an issue. But he has shown to be a successful battler in the past, and even if he has a rough spot I'm pretty confident he is resilient enough to have some success in the majors.

I'd pencil him in as a starter for this coming season.

A rotation of Carmona, Masterson, Carrasco, Talbot and Tomlin won't get you a championship, but this isn't a bad starting point to evaluate what you may have going forward.


+1...... I would be fine if Tomlin or Huff locked down the #5. 100 times better than someone like Kevin Millwood or Bruce Chen blocking minor leaguers who would probably pitch better than them anyway..... We are in a position where we have a lot of arms... Most will fizzle out, but we need to be able to identify the ones that will stick..... Tomlin reminds me of a Jake Westbrook in some ways... Also, Huff deserves another chance.... Think if we didn't give Cliff Lee another chance to be our #5 starter in 2008... if Cliff wasn't under a fairly expensive contract in fact, we probably would have released him and he would have won the CY Young with another team.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:35 am

TonyIPI wrote:No sure on Sowers, but he had an injury if I recall at end of last season. Teams may be staying clear.

As for Belcher-Huff.....Belcher's "comments" on Huff this offseason were lip service if you ask me. Don't believe he meant a single word of it.[/quote] In case anyone missed the actual comments, here is what Tim Belcher said:
... "I love David Huff," Belcher said. "I think he has a chance to be a big league starter, and a big league starter for a long time. I just hope it's with us -- soon. I've been wrong before. We've all been wrong before. But, man, you just can't look at David Huff, look at the total package and total picture, and think anything but that." ...
So, the "I love David Huff" comments by Belcher are meant as a motivation..not necessarily that Tim Belcher believes David Huff is ready for a good/breakout MLB campaign?.. It does appear to be the case from the comment.. <shrugs>
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:02 pm

theshow wrote:Also, Huff deserves another chance.... Think if we didn't give Cliff Lee another chance to be our #5 starter in 2008... if Cliff wasn't under a fairly expensive contract in fact, we probably would have released him and he would have won the CY Young with another team.

Sorry, I must have missed the part where there's any comparison between David Huff and Cliff Lee. From '02-'06, Lee made 109 MLB starts in which he posted a 4.39 ERA, ERA+ of 99, a 1.35 WHIP, and had 2.21 K/BB ratio. That's more than three seasons of league average performance from a guy who often pitched very well -- even finishing 4th in Cy Young voting in '05 -- had good stuff, and then struggled with injury and confidence. If only a lack of confidence was Huff's problem.

Huff has done nothing to "deserve" anything at the MLB level. In 38 games, he's posted a 5.84 ERA, ERA+ of 70, a 1.61 WHIP, and has 1.36 K/BB ratio. That's nothing but awful. He doesn't come close to Cliff Lee's results, and he doesn't come close to Cliff Lee's talent. I'm sure Huff will officially be in the competition to round out the rotation anyway, but if that past performance deserves another chance as the #5 starter, I guess Anthony Reyes deserves a chance as the #3, and Jeremy Sowers deserves a shot to be #4.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:15 pm

Anthony Reyes as the # 3... could be in the works.. not in 2011.. The only people that want to see Sowers back from the dead are the Jeremy Sowers Bobblehead concession makers and Hermie..lol.. As far as Huff's numbers, nothing but.. So, it's still a mystery...
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:07 pm

artgold wrote:Tomlin had a decent % of Quality Starts in his stint with the Tribe, and clearly deserves a shot to be in the rotation. He does have a bit of a flyball tendency, so obviously giving up HRs could be an issue. But he has shown to be a successful battler in the past, and even if he has a rough spot I'm pretty confident he is resilient enough to have some success in the majors.

I'd pencil him in as a starter for this coming season.

A rotation of Carmona, Masterson, Carrasco, Talbot and Tomlin won't get you a championship, but this isn't a bad starting point to evaluate what you may have going forward.

Nice post Art. +1 on everything. I think GS has a valid point that we should not overlook the potential benefit of Reyes. If completely healthy with his command back, he is closer to a #3 than either Tomlin or Talbot IMO. But the biggest benefit to me is keeping Gomez in Columbus for additional seasoning. Unless he derails, Gomez should finally fulfill his projection sometime in 2011 or 2012. I do not think that Tomlin and Talbot can keep up with the upside potential of Gomez and White. Above all, I do not want either rushed. We have emergency starters on the 40 up the ying yang that probably won't embarrass the Indians too badly if put in the rotation from injury or ineffectiveness. Those two, along with Hagadone, project the talent to be MOR or better along the top 3 on Art's starters. As you said, it is a pretty good starting point. :drinks:
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby daingean » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:06 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Anthony Reyes as the # 3... could be in the works.. not in 2011.. The only people that want to see Sowers back from the dead are the Jeremy Sowers Bobblehead concession makers and Hermie..lol.. As far as Huff's numbers, nothing but.. So, it's still a mystery...


I hope Sowers comes back and pitches like Tom Glavine. Of course, I realize that is very very very unlikely to happen (maybe I should put more veries in that statement). I don't care who proves to be a valueable piece to a Tribe's World Series Championship Team as long as that player performs. Now knowing what I know about Sowers, I would not have him on the 40 man roster and if we have better options at AAA then sayanora. Until then he's an Indian.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:20 am

daingean wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Anthony Reyes as the # 3... could be in the works.. not in 2011.. The only people that want to see Sowers back from the dead are the Jeremy Sowers Bobblehead concession makers and Hermie..lol.. As far as Huff's numbers, nothing but.. So, it's still a mystery...


I hope Sowers comes back and pitches like Tom Glavine. Of course, I realize that is very very very unlikely to happen (maybe I should put more veries in that statement). I don't care who proves to be a valueable piece to a Tribe's World Series Championship Team as long as that player performs. Now knowing what I know about Sowers, I would not have him on the 40 man roster and if we have better options at AAA then sayanora. Until then he's an Indian.



Well, I believe he's a free agent. So, he's not an Indian.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:49 am

The last report said that Jeremy Sowers' official status with the Indians organization was he was put on the minor league injury list with a sore shoulder.. there has been no further updates w/r to his status.. Likelihood is he'll become a MiLB FA, able to sign with a club where ever he can hook on.. His career as an Indian.. is OVER... :drinks:
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby artgold » Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:55 pm

I think Sowers is kind of irrelevant when discussing the Indians and how they go forward from here.

In addition to a rotation of Carmona, Masterson, Carrasco, Talbot and Tomlin, I think they have decent depth in Reyes, Laffey, Gomez, Huff and Kluber should they be needed to replace an injured or non-performing starting pitcher. Again, this is just a starting point for the Indians in this rebuild, but they should be able to keep the Tribe from being too bad a team until some (hopefully) "stronger" alternatives emerge from our system.

After all, White, Barnes and Rondon may be in the discussion for the 2012 rotation.

Biggest problem I see at the moment though, is the bad season by Hagadone. If he can make decent progress this season in pitching deeper into games, and giving up fewer walks, the rotation certainly brightens by next season. If he is only a bullpen option, then I'd have to mark him down as a big disappointment, even if an effective relief pitcher. The Tribe really needs him to be one of their front end starters, and soon.
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