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Offseason Happenings

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Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:30 am

Gonna start this thread to post all relevant offseason news and notes since the game threads are now dead.

High-A Kinston catcher Chun Chen has been selected to Taiwan National team to play in Asian Games. Big news as by being selected, military service requirement only 12 days rather than 2 years
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby dc101 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:18 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I hope I am, but I thought that just being selected to his national team was not necessarily enough to reduce his military commitment. I thought I read at some point that his national team has to win/place really well before they slice his commitment? Wrong? Hopefully.


Either way, good news.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:09 am

dc101 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, and I hope I am, but I thought that just being selected to his national team was not necessarily enough to reduce his military commitment. I thought I read at some point that his national team has to win/place really well before they slice his commitment? Wrong? Hopefully.


Either way, good news.


Taiwan and other countries are more lenient as you only need to make the team. For countries like South Korea, you have to win the gold medal.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby petes999 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:42 pm

Trades start but not the 2 for 1 we look for to get more talent for potential rule 5 protected players.

Pena for Mattingly. Don't know if we added something more than someone with a bit more potential as Mattingly is a year younger but both had bad years in high-A (but Mattingly started in short-season ball). Guess he didn't learn his lessons from his dad.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:29 pm

petes999 wrote:Trades start but not the 2 for 1 we look for to get more talent for potential rule 5 protected players.

Pena for Mattingly. Don't know if we added something more than someone with a bit more potential as Mattingly is a year younger but both had bad years in high-A (but Mattingly started in short-season ball). Guess he didn't learn his lessons from his dad.


I don't follow.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby artgold » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:12 pm

Roman Pena dealt for Preston Mattingly:

PHOENIX -- In a move that was significant not so much on its merits as it was for who was involved, the Los Angeles Dodgers traded minor league outfielder Preston Mattingly to the Cleveland Indians on Sunday for outfielder Roman Pena.

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/m ... id=5618969
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby petes999 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:16 am

TonyIPI wrote:
petes999 wrote:Trades start but not the 2 for 1 we look for to get more talent for potential rule 5 protected players.

Pena for Mattingly. Don't know if we added something more than someone with a bit more potential as Mattingly is a year younger but both had bad years in high-A (but Mattingly started in short-season ball). Guess he didn't learn his lessons from his dad.


I don't follow.


Don't know what part you didn't follow. But, my two points were Mattingly isn't that great of a hitter. He has hit around .200 to .240 with limited power (other than his first year in short-season). So, the lessons from his hitting coach (his dad) didn't really help him.

And, the first point was everyone on this board was hoping that we could package our potential rule 5 players like Graham and others to get a better prospect (ship 2 to 3) and get one better prospect back. This deal was 1 scrub player for 1 scrub player. The only thing Mattingly gave us was being one year younger than Pena and hopefully things click for him next year with a new start.

Sorry for the confusion.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:05 am

petes999 wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:
petes999 wrote:Trades start but not the 2 for 1 we look for to get more talent for potential rule 5 protected players.

Pena for Mattingly. Don't know if we added something more than someone with a bit more potential as Mattingly is a year younger but both had bad years in high-A (but Mattingly started in short-season ball). Guess he didn't learn his lessons from his dad.


I don't follow.


Don't know what part you didn't follow. But, my two points were Mattingly isn't that great of a hitter. He has hit around .200 to .240 with limited power (other than his first year in short-season). So, the lessons from his hitting coach (his dad) didn't really help him.

And, the first point was everyone on this board was hoping that we could package our potential rule 5 players like Graham and others to get a better prospect (ship 2 to 3) and get one better prospect back. This deal was 1 scrub player for 1 scrub player. The only thing Mattingly gave us was being one year younger than Pena and hopefully things click for him next year with a new start.

Sorry for the confusion.


I actually was not aware of the trade, so your post was confusing to me. :blush:

Interesting deal, and dunno why the Dodgers would trade for Pena after he missed all season with a knee injury or whatever it was offhand. Sort of a nothing deal.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby petes999 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:33 am

Tony, on the other hand, don't know why we traded for Mattingly? At first, when I saw it, I was intrigued because he was a 1st round supp who was drafted as a SS, if I recall right. Yet, like most SS, he had to shift and couldn't make it as an infielder. Now, he has no bat and is trying to learn the outfield. With the recent young guns we hired for CF like Holt and Washington, don't know where some of our outfielders will fit in (some will move to the corners and hope to be a Brantley - high BA hopefully to compensate for not being a 40HR bat). At least Pena could play all the OF positions and possibly could become a 4th outfielder if his bat improved. Mattingly only played LF (1 game at each of CF,RF and 1B).

Oh well, neither is a top 50 prospect. So, time to move on to another topic.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:28 am

petes999 wrote:Tony, on the other hand, don't know why we traded for Mattingly? At first, when I saw it, I was intrigued because he was a 1st round supp who was drafted as a SS, if I recall right. Yet, like most SS, he had to shift and couldn't make it as an infielder. Now, he has no bat and is trying to learn the outfield. With the recent young guns we hired for CF like Holt and Washington, don't know where some of our outfielders will fit in (some will move to the corners and hope to be a Brantley - high BA hopefully to compensate for not being a 40HR bat). At least Pena could play all the OF positions and possibly could become a 4th outfielder if his bat improved. Mattingly only played LF (1 game at each of CF,RF and 1B).

Oh well, neither is a top 50 prospect. So, time to move on to another topic.


Yeah, I am thinking Mickey Hall redux here. Just an org guy to move around between AAA/AA/A+ next year....though we appear to have a lot of those already.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby axic » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:35 pm

Chen had a nice performance in his debut of Taiwan national team
(Intercontinental Cup)

going 3-1 (3-run homer, popout, flyout) with 2BB

here's some short clip of him today:

Chen's three run homer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALnzi3koths
Chen's BB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdixT2lRG80
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:33 pm

Awesome, thanks for sharing Axic! I'll be putting those videos up on the front page Sunday morning in the ATF recap!
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby axic » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:42 am

thank you Tony, but it's Intercontinental Cup in Taichung, Taiwan
The Guangzhou Asian Games will be held next month :blush:
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:01 am

axic wrote:thank you Tony, but it's Intercontinental Cup in Taichung, Taiwan
The Guangzhou Asian Games will be held next month :blush:


Oops! Thanks again! :drinks:
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:13 am

I tweeted this yesterday, but Jose COnstanza has signed a minor league deal with the Braves.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Edible14 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:48 am

TonyIPI wrote:I tweeted this yesterday, but Jose COnstanza has signed a minor league deal with the Braves.


Good for him. Maybe he can earn himself an opportunity there. Sure wasn't getting it here with Carerra and Crowe. I imagine that, if DNosco was here, we'd be hearing about this being some enormous failing of the Indians FO.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby danh8 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:54 am

TonyIPI wrote:I tweeted this yesterday, but Jose COnstanza has signed a minor league deal with the Braves.


Honestly, would have liked to have seen him get a chance with us in Clevleand. But, you can't give everyone an opportunity that deserves one, I guess. I just feel he has a strfonger career ahead of him than Crowe. But, we'll see.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:56 am

Edible14 wrote:I imagine that, if DNosco was here, we'd be hearing about this being some enormous failing of the Indians FO.


Something I am thankful for on Thanksgiving that's for sure. That he is not here to blow a gasket over this! :drinks:
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby tribefan611 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:32 am

TonyIPI wrote:
Edible14 wrote:I imagine that, if DNosco was here, we'd be hearing about this being some enormous failing of the Indians FO.


Something I am thankful for on Thanksgiving that's for sure. That he is not here to blow a gasket over this! :drinks:


LOL!
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:12 pm

TonyIPI wrote:I tweeted this yesterday, but Jose COnstanza has signed a minor league deal with the Braves.


Good for him. He definitely belongs in the NL where you can get away with the lack of power moreso than the AL.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby MadThinker88 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:26 pm

Since Costanza's signing was noted in this thread, I think another signing should be noted: Drew Sutton.
It was listed on mlbtraderumors a few days back that Boston signed him.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby OhioBaseball » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:20 am

Random takes;

(1) Are the Indians the least exciting team to follow in the off-season?! If not, they're close! Other teams are talking about Justin Upton, Carl Crawford, Derek Jeter, etc. and we're talking about Adam Miller! I say this mainly in jest, but its true.

(2) When reading talk about free agents, Type-A and Type-B stuff seems to get a lot of attention. Some players, particularly relievers, seemingly lose a lot of value when they're offered arbitration but sign elsewhere. The reason being surrendering a draft pick due to the signing. Is it just me, or are these late 1st and 2nd round picks overvalued? I'm an advocate of building from within, but if the Indians signed a guy, they'd lose a 2nd round pick. So what? Every year players fall in the draft -- as long as you're willing to spend the money, you can get early round talent late in the draft. You can create homemade early round picks. The Indians 2010 draft is a clear example. My point is, and I have no empirical evidence to back this up, but I believe these arbitration offered Type-A and Type-B free agents are undervalued by the market. If you lose a 2nd round pick, just take 3 guys in the draft that fell b/c of signability and throw 2nd round money at them (if their talent dictates it) and hope one bites. What's the difference?

If the market is soft for one of these guys, go out there and sign them. I know the Indians shouldn't be shelling tons of money out there, but if an opportunity is out there, staying on the sidelines b/c of a concern about the Indians losing their 2nd round pick would be disappointing to me.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby gotribe31 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:54 am

OhioBaseball wrote:Random takes;

(1) Are the Indians the least exciting team to follow in the off-season?! If not, they're close! Other teams are talking about Justin Upton, Carl Crawford, Derek Jeter, etc. and we're talking about Adam Miller! I say this mainly in jest, but its true.

(2) When reading talk about free agents, Type-A and Type-B stuff seems to get a lot of attention. Some players, particularly relievers, seemingly lose a lot of value when they're offered arbitration but sign elsewhere. The reason being surrendering a draft pick due to the signing. Is it just me, or are these late 1st and 2nd round picks overvalued? I'm an advocate of building from within, but if the Indians signed a guy, they'd lose a 2nd round pick. So what? Every year players fall in the draft -- as long as you're willing to spend the money, you can get early round talent late in the draft. You can create homemade early round picks. The Indians 2010 draft is a clear example. My point is, and I have no empirical evidence to back this up, but I believe these arbitration offered Type-A and Type-B free agents are undervalued by the market. If you lose a 2nd round pick, just take 3 guys in the draft that fell b/c of signability and throw 2nd round money at them (if their talent dictates it) and hope one bites. What's the difference?

If the market is soft for one of these guys, go out there and sign them. I know the Indians shouldn't be shelling tons of money out there, but if an opportunity is out there, staying on the sidelines b/c of a concern about the Indians losing their 2nd round pick would be disappointing to me.


1) There are maybe a half-dozen teams who are talking about guys like Crawford, Jeter, Lee, Upton etc. The Indians are hardly alone in not playing the big $$ FA game.

2) I don't think anyone has stated that they are afraid to sign A/B free agents because of the draft pick compensation, especially since the top half of the 1st round is protected. Teams talk about it as nice compensation for losing a guy, but I can't recall a team saying that they aren't signing free agents because they are afraid to lose the draft picks, mainly for the reasons you outlined above.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Edible14 » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:23 pm

You have to offer arbitration in order to get compensation. So let's see...

Type A free agents offered arbitration:

Grant Balfour
Adrian Beltre
Carl Crawford
Jorge De La Rosa
Scott Downs
Adam Dunn
Frank Francisco
Jason Frasor
Paul Konerko
Cliff Lee
Victor Martinez
Carl Pavano
Rafael Soriano
Jayson Werth

Of the guys in the first list, do you think ANY of them are going to be in the price range where the Indians can afford them? My answer would be "hell no". Since only type A free agents cost the team that signs them anything extra... there's no reason to worry about compensation if you're the Indians.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby daingean » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:12 pm

Edible14 wrote:You have to offer arbitration in order to get compensation. So let's see...

Type A free agents offered arbitration:

Grant Balfour
Adrian Beltre
Carl Crawford
Jorge De La Rosa
Scott Downs
Adam Dunn
Frank Francisco
Jason Frasor
Paul Konerko
Cliff Lee
Victor Martinez
Carl Pavano
Rafael Soriano
Jayson Werth

Of the guys in the first list, do you think ANY of them are going to be in the price range where the Indians can afford them? My answer would be "hell no". Since only type A free agents cost the team that signs them anything extra... there's no reason to worry about compensation if you're the Indians.


There's no reason to worry because the Indians' top pick is protected. Also no worry because the Indians are not gonna sign any of those guys (this year that is).
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby OhioBaseball » Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:21 pm

Edible14 wrote:You have to offer arbitration in order to get compensation. So let's see...

Type A free agents offered arbitration:

Grant Balfour
Adrian Beltre
Carl Crawford
Jorge De La Rosa
Scott Downs
Adam Dunn
Frank Francisco
Jason Frasor
Paul Konerko
Cliff Lee
Victor Martinez
Carl Pavano
Rafael Soriano
Jayson Werth

Of the guys in the first list, do you think ANY of them are going to be in the price range where the Indians can afford them? My answer would be "hell no". Since only type A free agents cost the team that signs them anything extra... there's no reason to worry about compensation if you're the Indians.


You neglected Type-B free agents. Type-B free agents also yield 1st or 2nd round picks to compensated teams. There are 21 Type-B players offered arbitration. I thought Jon Garland was an interesting guy, but he recently signed with the Dodgers for $5 million. I'm not a big Garland guy, but there is some nice value there. Why couldn't the Indians have jumped in on that? Kevin Correia, Octavio Dotel, Kevin Gregg, Aaron Heilman, Adam LaRoche, JJ Putz, Chad Qualls -- why couldn't the Indians jump in the mix for any of these guys if the market is soft? None of those players are great, but if the market is soft, why not? My main point is losing a 2nd round is not a good excuse!

I love the draft and I want the Indians to take good talent, but the MLB draft is kind of a joke b/c lots of strong talent always makes its way to the late rounds. If the Indians are serious about making a run in 2011 (I believe they have some pieces, particularly if Sizemore comes back), adding one of these guys could make a difference. Conserving the 2nd round pick for its own sake is, in my opinion, foolish. This isn't like the NFL where the best talent goes at the top of the draft.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Edible14 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:37 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:You neglected Type-B free agents. Type-B free agents also yield 1st or 2nd round picks to compensated teams. There are 21 Type-B players offered arbitration.


Not quite. From wiki:

"A Class B free agent is ranked below the top 20 percent but in the top 40 percent of players at his position. A team that loses a Type B player receives a supplemental pick, but the signing team does not lose a pick"

So, a class b free agent is nothing to worry about for the signing team.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby OhioBaseball » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:29 am

Edible14 wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:You neglected Type-B free agents. Type-B free agents also yield 1st or 2nd round picks to compensated teams. There are 21 Type-B players offered arbitration.


Not quite. From wiki:

"A Class B free agent is ranked below the top 20 percent but in the top 40 percent of players at his position. A team that loses a Type B player receives a supplemental pick, but the signing team does not lose a pick"

So, a class b free agent is nothing to worry about for the signing team.


If that is true, there has been a rule change recently. I remember teams losing first round picks for type-B guys. It's been a while, but I distinctly remember the Angels losing a 1st round pick to the A's for losing lefty reliever Mike Magnante (type-B).

If that rule has indeed been changed, I withdrawal my recent post! Regardless, I still think losing draft picks (even late first rounders) is not as big of a deal as it is made out to be. I think the MLB draft needs reform b/c teams' willingness to spend money is just as important, if not more, than selecting early in the draft.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:27 am

OhioBaseball wrote:
Edible14 wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:You neglected Type-B free agents. Type-B free agents also yield 1st or 2nd round picks to compensated teams. There are 21 Type-B players offered arbitration.


Not quite. From wiki:

"A Class B free agent is ranked below the top 20 percent but in the top 40 percent of players at his position. A team that loses a Type B player receives a supplemental pick, but the signing team does not lose a pick"

So, a class b free agent is nothing to worry about for the signing team.


If that is true, there has been a rule change recently. I remember teams losing first round picks for type-B guys. It's been a while, but I distinctly remember the Angels losing a 1st round pick to the A's for losing lefty reliever Mike Magnante (type-B).

If that rule has indeed been changed, I withdrawal my recent post! Regardless, I still think losing draft picks (even late first rounders) is not as big of a deal as it is made out to be. I think the MLB draft needs reform b/c teams' willingness to spend money is just as important, if not more, than selecting early in the draft.


Yeah, the rule was changed in the most recent CBA........ Type C was also abolished at this time. I think it was over two years ago and, if memory serves, it was the same time an extra year was added to Rule 5 eligibles.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby A.Zajac » Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:21 am

Little off topic, but the K-Tribe announced that Benjamin Jones will be their new GM. FWIW.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:30 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:Yeah, the rule was changed in the most recent CBA........ Type C was also abolished at this time. I think it was over two years ago and, if memory serves, it was the same time an extra year was added to Rule 5 eligibles.


The changes went down four years ago to be exact....right at this time in 2006.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Edible14 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:51 am

Interesting free agent signings going down:

Werth signed by the Nationals for 7 years/$126M, about $18M/yr. $2M/yr more than Dunn made, over 3 more years. They're both 31 now, but Werth will be 38 by contract's end. I'm thinking... a bit too much, this signing. Also, according to Stark, the Nationals' offer blew everyone else out of the water, to the point where Boras didn't even offer other teams a chance to match.

Also, the Red Sox acquiring Adrian Gonzalez story seems to be getting more interesting, as the Sox are having a hard time coming to terms with him, and the deal isn't done yet. Which could put them back in the market for Beltre, whose main two suitors are rumored to be Boston and the Angels, and Oakland has apparently had little to no luck with Beltre.

Rivera goes back to the Yanks, 2 yrs/$30M, quite a bit for a closer, but it's Mo and the Yanks so what else would you expect? Jeter also signs to 3 yrs/$48M, with a player option that's $3M buyout, $8M base and up to an additional $9M in incentives during the 4th year.

Troy Tulowitzki was signed to a 6-year/$119M extension that takes place after his current contract ends in 2014, meaning he'll be making $154M over these next 10 years. Surprising move coming from the Rox. They also signed Jorge DeLaRosa to a 3yr/$32M deal, with the third year being a player option and a 4th year team option of $11M.

Giants re-sign Burrel for $1M for a year, also sign Uribe for 3 yrs/$21M. Cards get Berkman to play LF, 1 yr/$8M.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:37 am

You forgot the Jack Hannahan signing for a split minor league/major league minimum contract, but only if he makes the club!..
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:43 am

Jason Werth.. may or may not be worth this kind of deal. The baseball gods have aligned for him.. having only Carl Crawford as a competing FA at a time when just one player can make a huge difference. There is really nothing terribly special about Jason Werth. He's an above average defender in RF, has an above average to well above average arm, above average speed, above average plate discipline, above average power.. just above above average..

If this was Shin-soo Choo.. does he get more?
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:45 am

Can you imagine the "good natured" jeering from NYY fans if the Boston/Padres Alex Gonzalez deal fell through?.. I would be epic...

Anthony Rizzo <=== a lot better player/hitter than his numbers.. he could become the saving grace for the Padres in this deal..
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:20 am

Edible14 wrote:Interesting free agent signings going down:

Werth signed by the Nationals for 7 years/$126M, about $18M/yr. $2M/yr more than Dunn made, over 3 more years. They're both 31 now, but Werth will be 38 by contract's end. I'm thinking... a bit too much, this signing. Also, according to Stark, the Nationals' offer blew everyone else out of the water, to the point where Boras didn't even offer other teams a chance to match.

Also, the Red Sox acquiring Adrian Gonzalez story seems to be getting more interesting, as the Sox are having a hard time coming to terms with him, and the deal isn't done yet. Which could put them back in the market for Beltre, whose main two suitors are rumored to be Boston and the Angels, and Oakland has apparently had little to no luck with Beltre.

Rivera goes back to the Yanks, 2 yrs/$30M, quite a bit for a closer, but it's Mo and the Yanks so what else would you expect? Jeter also signs to 3 yrs/$48M, with a player option that's $3M buyout, $8M base and up to an additional $9M in incentives during the 4th year.

Troy Tulowitzki was signed to a 6-year/$119M extension that takes place after his current contract ends in 2014, meaning he'll be making $154M over these next 10 years. Surprising move coming from the Rox. They also signed Jorge DeLaRosa to a 3yr/$32M deal, with the third year being a player option and a 4th year team option of $11M.

Giants re-sign Burrel for $1M for a year, also sign Uribe for 3 yrs/$21M. Cards get Berkman to play LF, 1 yr/$8M.

Early morning rumor is that the Gonzalez deal is done with the tentative parameters of $167 for 8 years much to the chagrin of Padre fans. Cleveland is not the only team tohat cannot compete financially and the environment is not worth much.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby artgold » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:07 am

GeronimoSon wrote:Can you imagine the "good natured" jeering from NYY fans if the Boston/Padres Alex Gonzalez deal fell through?.. I would be epic...

Anthony Rizzo <=== a lot better player/hitter than his numbers.. he could become the saving grace for the Padres in this deal..



I don't know the players acquired by the Padres, however I do know that the two main prospects, Kelly (#10) and Rizzo (#18), were both ranked behind Chiz (#6), White (#8) and Kipnis (#9) in the Baseball America poll of Eastern League managers.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:22 pm

Crazy money being thrown around. The Werth signing is ridiculous.

Problem is, teams are going to blow their wad on the Top 5-15 guys....and all the other FAs are gonna get crap.

Just a broken system.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:59 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Crazy money being thrown around. The Werth signing is ridiculous.


You want rediculous, go scroll through the comments on Cleveland.com and read the insight over there about how a "real team proves to it's fanbase that it will do what it takes in order to provide a winning product" blah blah blah.

Truth be told I only read those comments on Monday. Something about balancing out the universe as it seems that I enjoy my case of the Mondays entirely too much....those comments generally anger me just enough to pull me back to Earth.

:reallyshocked:
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:44 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Crazy money being thrown around. The Werth signing is ridiculous.

Problem is, teams are going to blow their wad on the Top 5-15 guys....and all the other FAs are gonna get crap.

Just a broken system.


Yeah did not see that Werth deal coming. Guess those Lee-Nationals money rumors may not have been too far off. what I don't get is if you had $126M to spend on a 30+ year old outfielder, why not go after Lee? Unless he made it clear he wouldn't pitch there, but still....


System may be broken....but think it could play to the Tribe's advantage. I agree, teams are likely to spend a ton on those top 15 guys. Not sure anyone else saw...but Buster Olney actually mentioned that Manny Ramirez could sign for only a $800K base salary with $4M or so in incentives. $800K for a guy who had a .400+ OBP after the trade?!?!? Yikes. If his price actually did drop that low I'd sign him in a heartbeat. Still holding out hope that Bill Hall can bet gotten as well (would settle for Punto though).
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GhostofTedCox » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:01 pm

Hermie13 wrote:

System may be broken....but think it could play to the Tribe's advantage. I agree, teams are likely to spend a ton on those top 15 guys. Not sure anyone else saw...but Buster Olney actually mentioned that Manny Ramirez could sign for only a $800K base salary with $4M or so in incentives. $800K for a guy who had a .400+ OBP after the trade?!?!? Yikes. If his price actually did drop that low I'd sign him in a heartbeat. Still holding out hope that Bill Hall can bet gotten as well (would settle for Punto though).


+1 - I've said it before, Manny would be low risk-high reward. I believe it is critical for the Indians future to put more people in the seats in 2011.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:31 pm

...Buster Olney actually mentioned that Manny Ramirez could sign for only a $800K base salary with $4M or so in incentives. $800K for a guy who had a .400+ OBP after the trade?!?!? Yikes. If his price actually did drop that low I'd sign him in a heartbeat. Still holding out hope that Bill Hall can bet gotten as well (would settle for Punto though)....

Manny back on the North Coast for his swan song.. works.. at $ 800 K.. even better..if his incentive laden contract is for additional $$ and he earns them.. better yet..

Bill Hall had a good season in Boston.. can he replicate it in Cleveland?.. IDK.. again, it's a $$$ issue..

Settling for Nick Punto.. ugh...
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby jellis » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:59 pm

artgold wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Can you imagine the "good natured" jeering from NYY fans if the Boston/Padres Alex Gonzalez deal fell through?.. I would be epic...

Anthony Rizzo <=== a lot better player/hitter than his numbers.. he could become the saving grace for the Padres in this deal..



I don't know the players acquired by the Padres, however I do know that the two main prospects, Kelly (#10) and Rizzo (#18), were both ranked behind Chiz (#6), White (#8) and Kipnis (#9) in the Baseball America poll of Eastern League managers.


Rizzo put up the same numbers that AGon put up in Portland, plus you know the kid is tough as nails as he over came lymphoma. After that baseball is not scarey on any level. At worst he is AGon lite. Kelly is a solid 2, and Funetes is a fast athlete type CF, who should be a guy who can cover a ton of ground in SD. I bet both guys are in most top 35 specs in baseball
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:03 pm

artgold wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Can you imagine the "good natured" jeering from NYY fans if the Boston/Padres Alex Gonzalez deal fell through?.. I would be epic...

Anthony Rizzo <=== a lot better player/hitter than his numbers.. he could become the saving grace for the Padres in this deal..



I don't know the players acquired by the Padres, however I do know that the two main prospects, Kelly (#10) and Rizzo (#18), were both ranked behind Chiz (#6), White (#8) and Kipnis (#9) in the Baseball America poll of Eastern League managers.

IMO Kelly will be a hell of a player. I saw him play three times the summer before he was drafted and I was sure he would be ML at either SS or P. If you recall the discussions regarding the 2008 draft, he was the one player on my board ahead of Chisenhall when the Tribe drafted but I was not sure, from what I heard, that Cleveland could sign him. BA poll aside, I think I would place Kelly ahead of the three Indian prospects. Rizzo is probably not the prospect of the three because of his health issues. :pleasantry:
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby jellis » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:04 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
artgold wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Can you imagine the "good natured" jeering from NYY fans if the Boston/Padres Alex Gonzalez deal fell through?.. I would be epic...

Anthony Rizzo <=== a lot better player/hitter than his numbers.. he could become the saving grace for the Padres in this deal..



I don't know the players acquired by the Padres, however I do know that the two main prospects, Kelly (#10) and Rizzo (#18), were both ranked behind Chiz (#6), White (#8) and Kipnis (#9) in the Baseball America poll of Eastern League managers.

IMO Kelly will be a hell of a player. I saw him play three times the summer before he was drafted and I was sure he would be ML at either SS or P. If you recall the discussions regarding the 2008 draft, he was the one player on my board ahead of Chisenhall when the Tribe drafted but I was not sure, from what I heard, that Cleveland could sign him. BA poll aside, I think I would place Kelly ahead of the three Indian prospects. Rizzo is probably not the prospect of the three because of his health issues. :pleasantry:



Kelly will pretty much become the best fielding pitcher in baseball the moment he is called up
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:18 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Crazy money being thrown around. The Werth signing is ridiculous.

Problem is, teams are going to blow their wad on the Top 5-15 guys....and all the other FAs are gonna get crap.

Just a broken system.

Agree about the Werth signing, especially the length of the contract.

If Werth's not a Roid Ranger, the Nats are going to see a big downturn is his production toward the end.

I was for the Tribe getting in the bidding for Bobby Abreu a couple of years ago, even on the off chance he would have signed with Cleveland.
Abreu is heading in to the 3rd year of the contract and saw a good sized drop in production last year, his 36 yr old season. His BB/K rate & OBP took a big hit. Bat slowing down?

Werth is I believe the same age as Victor & I was surprised Vic got 4 years from the tigers.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby GoTribe028 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:09 am

Supposedly the Nationals are going to make Cliff Lee a "HUGE" offer....per Buster Olney

After the Werth deal....they just might. Never say never I suppose. So long as NY doesn't get him.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:54 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:IMO Kelly will be a hell of a player. I saw him play three times the summer before he was drafted and I was sure he would be ML at either SS or P. If you recall the discussions regarding the 2008 draft, he was the one player on my board ahead of Chisenhall when the Tribe drafted but I was not sure, from what I heard, that Cleveland could sign him. BA poll aside, I think I would place Kelly ahead of the three Indian prospects. Rizzo is probably not the prospect of the three because of his health issues. :pleasantry:


Yeah I feel Kelly was ranked pretty low in that BA poll. He's fully committed to pitching now and has innings under him so expecting a better 2011 out of him. Personally I would take Chiz over him but it's very close IMO.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby Edible14 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:29 pm

MLBTR reporting that the Indians are showing some interest in Adam Everett for a utility infielder role. Curious, considering he's never played anything but SS. He's also pretty solidly on the decline, you can expect that his BA would be right around the mendoza line next year. His real value - fielding - has even declined in recent years, according to the UZR ratings on Fangraphs.
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Re: Offseason Happenings

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:21 am

Edible14 wrote:MLBTR reporting that the Indians are showing some interest in Adam Everett for a utility infielder role. Curious, considering he's never played anything but SS. He's also pretty solidly on the decline, you can expect that his BA would be right around the mendoza line next year. His real value - fielding - has even declined in recent years, according to the UZR ratings on Fangraphs.


I'd be disappointed if we signed him to anything but an NRI deal. Would rather go with Donald as the utility guy or even JRod.
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