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Rating Relief Prospects

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Rating Relief Prospects

Postby dc101 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:12 pm

Watching these Columbus and LC Relief Pitchers dominate the postseason, I have to get some feedback on how these guys rank as longterm bullpen prospects. I hope not to distract from the awesome season that Columbus just closed out, but I wanted to ask this before I go to bed and while it was still on my mind.

How would you guys, Tony included if he wants to weigh in, rank our top relief prospects? It seems that we have them in spades.

Just off the top of my head - and only including guys who at this point are in the pen (which leaves out guys like McFarland, Adams, and Berger who likely project as longterm bullpen options):

Putnam
Judy
Pestano
Todd
Stowell
Hagadone
Price
Graham
CC Lee
Popham
Guilmet
Jones
Burns
Bryson

Tremendous depth throughout. But personally, I'd have to throw Stowell in there as #1. Beyond that, I am going to have to do some more research.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:18 pm

Well I'd throw Hagadone as the #1 prospect there. Still wish he'd have lasted longer as a starter, but no denying his stuff.

#2 for me would be Bryson. I was a HUGE fan of getting him in the CC deal and think he was ignored by way too many casual fans. Guy was a top 10-12 prospect by multiple sources in that Brewers system and if it weren't for injury probably would of been in Columbus hosting that trophy with the team. He better be rostered and I expect to see him in a Tribe uniform in 2011.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:31 pm

Relief prospects are tough to rank as so few truly make it to the bigs. One exec mentioned to me this year when I asked maybe 3-4 in a system ever make it. A lot of what happens is the starters who later get converted to the pen later on push the relievers down the list because of a priority system in place. That said, some tremendous depth indeed.

One note, in talking to Atkins today, he mentioned Hagadone to the bullpen is not a done deal. Seem open to starting him next season and was quick to note the bullpen change this year was more to monitor his innings workload.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby A.Zajac » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:33 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Relief prospects are tough to rank as so few truly make it to the bigs. One exec mentioned to me this year when I asked maybe 3-4 in a system ever make it. A lot of what happens is the starters who later get converted to the pen later on push the relievers down the list because of a priority system in place. That said, some tremendous depth indeed.

One note, in talking to Atkins today, he mentioned Hagadone to the bullpen is not a done deal. Seem open to starting him next season and was quick to note the bullpen change this year was more to monitor his innings workload.


So much uncertainty with Hagadone, makes me wonder how much that effects him.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby csowlfan26 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:34 am

Matt Langwell - Kinston certainly has the numbers to be considered and he is one that needs to be reconsidered as a starter IMO.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby dc101 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:01 am

TonyIPI wrote:One note, in talking to Atkins today, he mentioned Hagadone to the bullpen is not a done deal. Seem open to starting him next season and was quick to note the bullpen change this year was more to monitor his innings workload.


To me, that is huge news. I hope to see him starting, because I think he has the stuff to be a successful starter. The idea that a solid starter will automatically be a great reliever is I think an oversight. I definitely agree that the uncertainty is hurting Hagadone. Look at Masterson. Perfect example right now. Lights out in his last few starts (last night's relief outing notwithstanding). Probably had to deal, earlier in the season, with wondering whether or not he was going to the bullpen. Once he settled into that starter's role, and it seemed like it happened when guys like Huff started taking a turn for the worst (suggesting that maybe Masterson's spot in the rotation was less in jeopardy), Masterson has been tremendous.

Put Hagadone in the starting rotation next year. Leave him there for the full year. Give him extra time in Extended Spring training to ramp him up if we have concerns with his total yearly innings load. Then bring him to Akron, make him the starter, leave him as the starter for the entire year, and I think we might all be surprised how consistent he pitches.

Maybe if the organization provided Hagadone with some consistency, his pitching would follow suit.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby elrod enchilada » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:10 am

I think it is time to push Hagadone down the prospect list. He may have great stuff but he seemed to get farther from shore, so to speak, as the season progressed. The move to the pen hardly elevated his game. (For sake of argument, is he really a better prospect than Matt Packer?)

I would be inclined to start Hagadone, too, if he is considered a prospect. Give him steady innings. Let's see if he can dominate at AA next year.

PS-- The depth and talent at both starting and relieving is quite impressive in the farm system. It is not really a worry at this point. I am a big believer in drafting the best player available regardless of position, but, that being said, I sure hope there might be a few middle-of-the-order-type big bats in the Tribe's first 10 picks of the 2011 draft. It is the one weak spot in the system right now, and a glaring weakspot at the major league level. It is hard to trade for boppers and we sure aren't signing any studs in free agency.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby dc101 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:16 am

Elrod - I think I'm with you. If we're picking at 5, I think we'll be in a spot to grab George Springer. He looks like a 5-tool, middle of the order type of guy, and he's the best position player in the draft after Rendon.

That said, to pull this thread back on track.... Here's my Top 5 RP rankings.

1. Stowell
2. Bryson
3. Burns
4. Hagadone
5. Judy

Honorable mention: Guilmet and Price

Anyone else care to weigh in?
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby elrod enchilada » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:07 am

That Putnam cannot make the list speaks volumes about the quality.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby toledobuck » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:30 am

It does not look like anybody has Pestano on the radar. Since he just got the call to join the Tribe, he must be further along in the list of relief prospects at least in the Tribe's eyes.

Also, I am a huge fan of Josh Judy and hope he somehow sticks in the Tribe system after rule 5 as it appears he is not going to be added to the 40 right now during the season.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:59 am

Since it appears Hagadone is not in the immediate bullpen mix and likely will start next year to open the season, I'd put my listing as the following (excluding any 2010 draft picks):

1. Stowell
2. Putnam
3. Pestano
4. Judy
5. Price
6. Bryson
7. Lee
8. Todd
9. Burns
10. Graham
11. Sarianides
12. Langwell
13. Jones
14. Guilmet
15. Aguilar
16. Sturdevant
17. Wright

I put a lot of weight of how much higher up the ladder they are because relief prospects in the upper levels are legit, whereas guys in Single-A are more filler and can be deceiving (this is because the prospects typically are starting). You also have the likes of Austin Adams and Paolo Espino who ultimately are big league relievers who are starting right now not included.

The overall quality of depth in the relief corps in the minors is impressive, and we should be able to feed the big league team the next several years from within and not have to go out and overpay for middle relievers like we did a few years ago. We should have 3-5 of these guys become regular contributors, and if not it would mostly be a failure of the Player Development department as the talent is there.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby csowlfan26 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:27 am

Tony, have you heard anything else on when the final fall league roster will be announced?
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:38 am

csowlfan26 wrote:Tony, have you heard anything else on when the final fall league roster will be announced?


Nothing. Likely a last minute announcement, as the Javelinas team still needs another catcher and has four roster spots to "announce".
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby elrod enchilada » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:17 pm

your list and criteria make sense, Tony.

I would like to see Adams pitch another year as a starter at AA. He may not need to go to the pen. He is new to pitching so despite his age, he has a lot of upside. I know the guy is short and throws very hard, but that does not mean he cannot start.

If Preston Guilmet can reproduce these numbers at high A, or come close to them at AA, he shoots way up the list quickly. He was a superman among little boys at low A.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:45 pm

elrod enchilada wrote:your list and criteria make sense, Tony.

I would like to see Adams pitch another year as a starter at AA. He may not need to go to the pen. He is new to pitching so despite his age, he has a lot of upside. I know the guy is short and throws very hard, but that does not mean he cannot start.

If Preston Guilmet can reproduce these numbers at high A, or come close to them at AA, he shoots way up the list quickly. He was a superman among little boys at low A.


FYI, as some point Adams is being moved to the pen. Like Stowell and Price, it is what he was viewed as when he was drafted and is just starting right now to develop his pitches and other things.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby dc101 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:42 am

Tony - who are some of the better power arms in the system? Obviously Stowell comes to mind as a guy that tops out at 99-100MPH.

Are there other pitchers in the organization that either A) already top out in the mid/high 90s, or B) appear to have the potential to add that kind of velocity to their fastball? I know that Stowell wasn't exactly hitting 99/100 until this year.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:00 am

dc101 wrote:Tony - who are some of the better power arms in the system? Obviously Stowell comes to mind as a guy that tops out at 99-100MPH.

Are there other pitchers in the organization that either A) already top out in the mid/high 90s, or B) appear to have the potential to add that kind of velocity to their fastball? I know that Stowell wasn't exactly hitting 99/100 until this year.


Guys who I know at least touched 98 MPH this year are Stowell, Haley, White, Hagadone, and Knapp. I think Adams was at 98 or 97, not sure. Bryson up to 96 I believe. Some projectable arms like Sterling who was up to 94 and Sturdevant who was at 95 or 96 are interesting. I had seen a sheet which listed all the pitch speed ranges for all the pitchers in the system hanging in the lake County clubhouse and tried to memorize as many as I could. Stowell was tops at 100 MPH of course. White susprising had touched 98 MPH. Gardner up to I thinm 95-96 MPH. If I get a chance to see the document again this offseason, I will include it in some sort of listing.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby danh8 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:43 pm

TonyIPI wrote:
dc101 wrote:Tony - who are some of the better power arms in the system? Obviously Stowell comes to mind as a guy that tops out at 99-100MPH.

Are there other pitchers in the organization that either A) already top out in the mid/high 90s, or B) appear to have the potential to add that kind of velocity to their fastball? I know that Stowell wasn't exactly hitting 99/100 until this year.


Guys who I know at least touched 98 MPH this year are Stowell, Haley, White, Hagadone, and Knapp. I think Adams was at 98 or 97, not sure. Bryson up to 96 I believe. Some projectable arms like Sterling who was up to 94 and Sturdevant who was at 95 or 96 are interesting. I had seen a sheet which listed all the pitch speed ranges for all the pitchers in the system hanging in the lake County clubhouse and tried to memorize as many as I could. Stowell was tops at 100 MPH of course. White susprising had touched 98 MPH. Gardner up to I thinm 95-96 MPH. If I get a chance to see the document again this offseason, I will include it in some sort of listing.


Surprised that White got up to 98 ...didn't think he even apporoached that, as most every game I watched him pitch he sat at 91 or 92 tops. Adams is the guy that has real deal power that may continue to rise as he develops. I see Adams really having the chance to make a fast ascent as he settles into a pitcher's mindset and gets some more miles on his odometer.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:48 pm

danh8 wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:
dc101 wrote:Tony - who are some of the better power arms in the system? Obviously Stowell comes to mind as a guy that tops out at 99-100MPH.

Are there other pitchers in the organization that either A) already top out in the mid/high 90s, or B) appear to have the potential to add that kind of velocity to their fastball? I know that Stowell wasn't exactly hitting 99/100 until this year.


Guys who I know at least touched 98 MPH this year are Stowell, Haley, White, Hagadone, and Knapp. I think Adams was at 98 or 97, not sure. Bryson up to 96 I believe. Some projectable arms like Sterling who was up to 94 and Sturdevant who was at 95 or 96 are interesting. I had seen a sheet which listed all the pitch speed ranges for all the pitchers in the system hanging in the lake County clubhouse and tried to memorize as many as I could. Stowell was tops at 100 MPH of course. White susprising had touched 98 MPH. Gardner up to I thinm 95-96 MPH. If I get a chance to see the document again this offseason, I will include it in some sort of listing.


Surprised that White got up to 98 ...didn't think he even apporoached that, as most every game I watched him pitch he sat at 91 or 92 tops. Adams is the guy that has real deal power that may continue to rise as he develops. I see Adams really having the chance to make a fast ascent as he settles into a pitcher's mindset and gets some more miles on his odometer.

I know I recall Putnam at 96 but not sure about higher. He is probably the only one where his fastball is not his out pitch that I see on the list. :pleasantry:
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby tribefan611 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:02 pm

Just curious, why is Todd rated so high, Tony? He has done nothing in the majors and doesn't have great stuff.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:32 pm

tribefan611 wrote:Just curious, why is Todd rated so high, Tony? He has done nothing in the majors and doesn't have great stuff.


Who is he rated high by? Maybe going into the season he was thought of more highly, but certainly no more.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby tribefan611 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:38 pm

TonyIPI wrote:
tribefan611 wrote:Just curious, why is Todd rated so high, Tony? He has done nothing in the majors and doesn't have great stuff.


Who is he rated high by? Maybe going into the season he was thought of more highly, but certainly no more.


You had him 8th of the 17. Just surprised he's even that high?
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby indianinkslinger » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:47 pm

TonyIPI wrote:
tribefan611 wrote:Just curious, why is Todd rated so high, Tony? He has done nothing in the majors and doesn't have great stuff.


Who is he rated high by? Maybe going into the season he was thought of more highly, but certainly no more.

Yeah, Tony, you had him rated 8 out of 17 which seems about right to me. Pretty much middle of the pack and likely to stay there. He does throw strikes which puts him a cut above IMO but is pretty much replaceable now. :s_thumbsup
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:51 pm

tribefan611 wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:
tribefan611 wrote:Just curious, why is Todd rated so high, Tony? He has done nothing in the majors and doesn't have great stuff.


Who is he rated high by? Maybe going into the season he was thought of more highly, but certainly no more.


You had him 8th of the 17. Just surprised he's even that high?


Look at what's below him though.

Very questionable talent and a lot of guys in Single-A or with command issues. Todd at least has been in AAA the past few years and some big league experience.
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Re: Rating Relief Prospects

Postby MadThinker88 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:47 pm

This thread of conversation all took place BEFORE the possibility of Adam Miller was raised.
I have to wonder if that possibility changes any opinions and where he would rank on such a listing.
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