Rondon has Tommy John surgery

[TonyIBI]

Pain resurfaced in his return to throw program, and the decision was made to have Tommy John surgery yesterday by Dr. James Andrews.

[tribefan611]

Wow, he probably won't be back until mid 2012.

[tribefan611]

At least he's still young. He's got time to get his career back on track.

[GoTribe028]

Pain resurfaced in his return to throw program, and the decision was made to have Tommy John surgery yesterday by Dr. James Andrews.

[TonyIBI]

Pain resurfaced in his return to throw program, and the decision was made to have Tommy John surgery yesterday by Dr. James Andrews.

I need more graphic emoticons for this one.

[tribefan611]

Pain resurfaced in his return to throw program, and the decision was made to have Tommy John surgery yesterday by Dr. James Andrews.

I need more graphic emoticons for this one.

Yeah, this sucks.

[dazindiansfanuk]

I know surgery is always the last option, but it's times like these that make you wonder why it wasn't done when he first got hurt.

With the seeming inevitability of elbow problems leading to TJ, surely it's only a matter of time before teams start to become pro-active and use surgery as an early option.

[petes999]

Tony, with Rondon being out for all of 2011 and possibly some or most of 2012, how will the 4th year option rule work? If he was put on the 40 man at the end of 2008, his first option was 2009 and second option in 2010. Technically, his third and fourth option would be 2011 and 2012. He will get the 4th option due to being out all of 2011. But, is there a chance of a fifth year option as he missed alot of time in 2010 (only 31 innings over 7 games)?

I ask because if he does need secondary pitch development, he may not have enough time to develop as a starter in 2012 just coming off injury and getting some control back. Then in 2013, he would need to make the club or be lost, almost forcing him to be a reliever by September 2012 as there is no option to send him back down if he struggles as a starter and if we are contending in 2013 (we hope).

So is there a 5th year option due to injury time (missing 2 seasons). Or, is it better to put him on the 60 day DL next year so he is not optioned? If his 4th year option is based on 2010 injury time - it puts the 4th year option in 2013 (2009, 2010, 2012 and 2013)? But, isn't there pro service time that counts against arbitration and FA due to the 60 day DL? If so, seems as the lesser of 2 evils here.

Sorry to bring up a technical point ... when it is a bad day for Rondon. He had/has potential. But losing 2 years as you get so close to the majors just sucks - as with Miller.

[tribefan611]

Can he be put on he Major League 60-day DL so we can have an extra 40-man spot?

[TonyIBI]

Can he be put on he Major League 60-day DL so we can have an extra 40-man spot?

He has to be on the big league DL to be placed on the 60-day DL. Also, it is pointless at this point to even put him on the 60-day DL.

Petes, there is not 5th year option rule. And yes, he would get a 4th option year for missing next season.

Would the Indians consider removing him from the 40-man this offseason? Possible.

[entertheshoe]

It seems like every good pitcher that we get hits a road-block in Triple-A. Adam Miller's finger, Adam Miller's finger, Adam Miller's finger, and now THIS. Can we just skip Triple-A all-together and promote people straight from AA?

[petes999]

Can he be put on he Major League 60-day DL so we can have an extra 40-man spot?

He has to be on the big league DL to be placed on the 60-day DL. Also, it is pointless at this point to even put him on the 60-day DL.

Petes, there is not 5th year option rule. And yes, he would get a 4th option year for missing next season.

Would the Indians consider removing him from the 40-man this offseason? Possible.

Thanks Tony. Question - Do you think even with this season (7 games, 31 innings), would he qualify for 4th year option?

If so, then next year, it may be a possibility to add him to the 60-day ML DL. This way you save an option year for 2013 (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013) at the expense of a year closer to FA. But if Reyes passed through waivers due to injury, maybe Rondon could (less likely as he has more upside).

[TonyIBI]

Thanks Tony. Question - Do you think even with this season (7 games, 31 innings), would he qualify for 4th year option?

If so, then next year, it may be a possibility to add him to the 60-day ML DL. This way you save an option year for 2013 (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013) at the expense of a year closer to FA. But if Reyes passed through waivers due to injury, maybe Rondon could (less likely as he has more upside).

Yes, he was not active for at least 90 days this year, so we'd qualify for the 4th option on this year alone.

Also, absolutely no way the org puts him on the 60-day DL next year. He accrues service time and would get a full year of big league time without playing. They will just leave him as a non-DLed (big league) guy all year like they have done in the past with Miller (or Rondon this year) or DFA him.

[homerawayfromhome]

I hate this... we regain Knapp, and lose Rondon. Maybe that's why Zach McAllister was acq. for Kearns. A team can never have enough arms, and it's always nice to add an arm that is close to the majors (esp. when the Tribe didn't pay for it). At best Rondon returns this time next year, worst case scenario spring training of 2012... realistically mid- to late- season of 2012.

[indianinkslinger]

I hate this... we regain Knapp, and lose Rondon. Maybe that's why Zach McAllister was acq. for Kearns. A team can never have enough arms, and it's always nice to add an arm that is close to the majors (esp. when the Tribe didn't pay for it). At best Rondon returns this time next year, worst case scenario spring training of 2012... realistically mid- to late- season of 2012.

hi hrah, welcome to the site belatedly. One of the great rules of baseball is that yung pitching is going to be injured, already injured or recovering from injury. The indians pitchers are not exempt from the rule and it always seems like the best ones suffer the worst injuries. Probably some karmic payback for the gifts if you are into that sort of thing.

[TonyIBI]

I hate this... we regain Knapp, and lose Rondon. Maybe that's why Zach McAllister was acq. for Kearns. A team can never have enough arms, and it's always nice to add an arm that is close to the majors (esp. when the Tribe didn't pay for it). At best Rondon returns this time next year, worst case scenario spring training of 2012... realistically mid- to late- season of 2012.

I wouldn't expect anything out of him next year. He'll be on a Tony Sipp timeline when he had TJ surgery in July of 2007. Sipp did not start pitching in games until July the next year and was very restricted. Rondon likely will not pitch in games until August next year, and even if so, will only be a handful of games in Arizona and maybe Columbus/Akron on a rehab assignment.

[Hermie13]

I again call into question our medical staff. I realize they "won" on de la cruz by waiting but this is just another injury in an ever growing list of foulups IMO by this staff.

Obviously you can't put all the blame on the medical trainers/staff.....but at some point, you have to question if we've just become too comfortable with them and a change of somekind needs to be made.

[TonyIBI]

I again call into question our medical staff. I realize they "won" on de la cruz by waiting but this is just another injury in an ever growing list of foulups IMO by this staff.

Obviously you can't put all the blame on the medical trainers/staff.....but at some point, you have to question if we've just become too comfortable with them and a change of somekind needs to be made.

I don't follow? Remember, the player ultimately has to make the decision to have the surgery. Some opt for the rest option, as was the case here (and De La last year) while other choose Tommy John (Perez).

[JP_Frost]

I think some of you are forgetting how serious surgery is. It's a huge deal and it's not a bad thing to consider all options before choosing surgery. At first look the injury probably didn't look like it needed TJ to repair, but after it didn't improve or even worsened they figured it was the best thing to do.

In hindsight you can say they should've done this months ago, but this is a big decision to make and I understand that they really feel it's a last resort.

[TonyIBI]

To add to what JP said, it is always the player's decision. The team can't tell a guy to have surgery. They can give the guy all the medical tests and info they want to make an informed decision, including second opinions and such. But the decision on surgery is always the player's ultimate decision.

[seatribe]

JP makes the point-this is a serious surgery. The good news obviously is that many who have the surgery performed are able to return to the level that they were at before they were injured. The 12-18 month recovery is not automatic, every rehab and athlete is different. Having first hand knowledge of the process, I can say that the good news is that Rondon is in the hands of the absolute best surgeon for this procedure in the country. After my son's surgery, I asked Dr. Andrews if it was a success, his reply was "the procedure is always successful, now it is up to the athlete". The rehab is grueling, monotonous, and out of the spotlight in terms of how the other players are preparing for the upcoming season. The player has to be mentally tough to believe that they will get back to the performance level that they were previous to the injury. I will never forget the first time my son and I had a catch in the back yard during his rehab. Seven months into the rehab- sixty feet, 20 throws-I knew then that he would make it. Reyes recent struggles are not surprising, he will undoubtedly improve with time.

My question with Strasburg is if the Nationals will try to restructure his mechanics when he returns to the mound in order to take the pressure off his shoulder and elbow.

[homerawayfromhome]

@indianinkslinger...

Thanks for the welcome I've actually been reading along for sometime just didn't participate until lately.
I wouldn't say I believe in carma, but I believe as people say what comes around goes around. Personally I work a full-time job, I am currently a full-time OL student seeking a B of S in Christian Ministries / Pastoral emphasis. I grew up in LC and love all my "home" teams. I was actually a pitching coach for a local high school until my other job got in the way and have had shoulder and elbow injuries that many pitchers get. I was fortunate enough to avoid surgery both times, although probably should have had both times.
TJ surgery is increasing effective and many pitchers actually come back stronger than prior to the injury. I hope and pray that's the case with Rondon.

[TonyIBI]

JP makes the point-this is a serious surgery. The good news obviously is that many who have the surgery performed are able to return to the level that they were at before they were injured. The 12-18 month recovery is not automatic, every rehab and athlete is different. Having first hand knowledge of the process, I can say that the good news is that Rondon is in the hands of the absolute best surgeon for this procedure in the country. After my son's surgery, I asked Dr. Andrews if it was a success, his reply was "the procedure is always successful, now it is up to the athlete". The rehab is grueling, monotonous, and out of the spotlight in terms of how the other players are preparing for the upcoming season. The player has to be mentally tough to believe that they will get back to the performance level that they were previous to the injury. I will never forget the first time my son and I had a catch in the back yard during his rehab. Seven months into the rehab- sixty feet, 20 throws-I knew then that he would make it. Reyes recent struggles are not surprising, he will undoubtedly improve with time.

My question with Strasburg is if the Nationals will try to restructure his mechanics when he returns to the mound in order to take the pressure off his shoulder and elbow.

Love the insight, thanks.

[Hermie13]

I again call into question our medical staff. I realize they "won" on de la cruz by waiting but this is just another injury in an ever growing list of foulups IMO by this staff.

Obviously you can't put all the blame on the medical trainers/staff.....but at some point, you have to question if we've just become too comfortable with them and a change of somekind needs to be made.

I don't follow? Remember, the player ultimately has to make the decision to have the surgery. Some opt for the rest option, as was the case here (and De La last year) while other choose Tommy John (Perez).

It is always the player's decision...it's always any patient's decision. So not sure what that has to do with anything. It's still up to the trainers/medical staff to do their jobs and give all the information and keep these guys healthy. So it's the 22 year old's fault, not the whole entire medical staff being paid for this sole thing? Now maybe the medical staff completely recommended rest vs surgery.....well, they were wrong. Seems to be a lot of that going around lately.....

[Duane Kuiper]

To add to what JP said, it is always the player's decision. The team can't tell a guy to have surgery. They can give the guy all the medical tests and info they want to make an informed decision, including second opinions and such. But the decision on surgery is always the player's ultimate decision.

So what was the Indians' FO recommendation for Rondon in May?

[TonyIBI]

I again call into question our medical staff. I realize they "won" on de la cruz by waiting but this is just another injury in an ever growing list of foulups IMO by this staff.

Obviously you can't put all the blame on the medical trainers/staff.....but at some point, you have to question if we've just become too comfortable with them and a change of somekind needs to be made.

I don't follow? Remember, the player ultimately has to make the decision to have the surgery. Some opt for the rest option, as was the case here (and De La last year) while other choose Tommy John (Perez).

It is always the player's decision...it's always any patient's decision. So not sure what that has to do with anything. It's still up to the trainers/medical staff to do their jobs and give all the information and keep these guys healthy. So it's the 22 year old's fault, not the whole entire medical staff being paid for this sole thing? Now maybe the medical staff completely recommended rest vs surgery.....well, they were wrong. Seems to be a lot of that going around lately.....

Again, your orginal post blamed the medical staff and implied they recommended Rondon wait and made the decision for him. I am not sure how a medical staff can be blamed when they recommended surgery in the first place.

[Hermie13]

Again, your orginal post blamed the medical staff and implied they recommended Rondon wait and made the decision for him. I am not sure how a medical staff can be blamed when they recommended surgery in the first place.

No, my original post did not "blame" the medical staff. Simply called into question their work over the past 3 seasons as a whole and said that this delay in action (whether it was all on them or not) was just another issue for me. There's a difference.

I wasn't implying that they recommended rest (though the early reports were they did). I implied that they didn't do enough to get him into surgery early. Again, maybe they did all they could.....but seems to be way, way too much indecision going on on players' health (both minor and major leagues) lately. I'm calling into quesiton our medical staff not on this injury, but how things have been handled overall lately. I had this exact same stance 3 months ago (and funny enough, you agreed with me) and nothing has changed in my eyes. We need to have a top to bottom review of the medical/training staff this winter.

[danh8]

Any updates available on the status of his recovery, and what timeline is in place for his addition to the Clipper's rotation ?

[TonyIBI]

Any updates available on the status of his recovery, and what timeline is in place for his addition to the Clipper's rotation ?

I'd expect he won't pitch with the Clippers next season. He just had the surgery like 3 months ago. He'll spend most of next year rehabbing in Arizona and probably won't get into any games until maybe August though I would expect he doesn't see any game action until Instructs. Really a lost year for him.