RSS Twitter Facebook YouTube
Expand Menu

2011 Amateur Draft

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby elrod enchilada » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:49 am

If the Tribe could get a top 2 pick and there was general consensus that the top two players were of the Strasburg-Harper variety and then there was a huge drop-off, this would be a useful discussion. It would be one I am certain the Tribe brass would be having internally, and every other losing team for that matter.

But the Tribe is not in the running for a top 2 pick. The relevant range is 3-8. Moreover, there does not appear to be a massive drop from the top one or tow players to everyone else. Indeed, the evidence suggests this is a draft where the talent in the top 10-15 players is much much deeper and of higher quality than in most years. Even if the Tribe drafts 6 or 7 or 8, we will almost certainly have access to a much better prospect than, say Drew Pomeranz or what we would get most years at that slot.

So, while last year I was praying for the first pick, this year I am cool if the Tribe runs the table. Even picking 6th or 7th or 8th we can get a tremendous prospect if we scout well, get lucky, and are willing to open our check book.
elrod enchilada
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby petes999 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:10 am

Sorry for being a bit cynical but I am tired for hearing the phrase wait to next year. In 2008, we ended the year on an up note after the CC trade. Shoppach batted .260 for the year with 21 HRs. Reyes looked like a decent prospect again ... for a brief moment of time. In 2009, we surged at the end again with Brantley looking like a potential all-star. I for one believed that his end of season call-up performance made him a lock for 2010 season - not listening to Indians who said that September stats are skewed. Then the best one of all (but not Tribe related), Harrison burst on the scene for the Browns and tore up the defenses of mostly losing teams and we thought we had an all-star only for him to back-up Hillis in a 0-3 (soon to be 0-7) start.

So, I like the

dazindiansfanuk wrote:Carlos Carrasco winning games, Matt LaPorta and Michael Brantley hitting at the major league level and Chris Perez continuing to develop into a top line closer are much more vital to the future of this franchise than the difference between the 4th and 8th pick in the draft.


But, it is a long time to next spring.

indianinkslinger wrote:I am not convinced losing is good in any way for the biggest "loser" franchise in baseball. IMO it only keeps the old stereotype of "mistake on the Lake" alive and says to draft choices and professionals alike that if you want to win, don't come to Cleveland because the Indians are quitters. :reallyshocked:


Winning 10 inconsequential games at the end of the season and being next to last to the Royals in our division will not change the slogan "mistake on the Lake". Those that want to win, didn't come to the Browns after the great December last year. Those that wanted a world series or Super Bowl went to Steelers, Yankees, Boston, Patriots.... not a team that still was below .500 but had a great September/December.

I get the point. Yet, winning one or two more games and drafting between 6th and 8th to me is a no brainer. Would you rather have had Machado or Pom ... or better yet Pom or Loux? Those few slots do make a difference. Ending the season going 7-3 instead of 3-7 doesn't make a hill of difference. I do see Tony's point earlier that you don't tank in July. But, going .500 and having some hope for next year is now out of the question. But, to get a top-5 prospect like Pom is to me better than settling for a riskier prospect. I doubt we would have taken Loux. But, the 8th slot was DeShield. And, yes the Sox got Sale at 13 but the reason they did was he is a reliever. Do you want another reliever who may turn into a starter or a MOR starter? There are more question marks the further you fall. Luckily, White and Chisenhall seemed to answer those questions but others including Aubrey did not (more injury but had no other position and thus not athletic enough to overcome those injuries).
petes999
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:02 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Rocky55 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:48 am

danh8 wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
jellis wrote:I have a hard time getting upset about baseball draft picks, I dont see us take purke or anyone that is that hard to sign. Time will tell, but I doubt it is killer if we are 6 instead of 4


Exactly. Though I do think we could be more aggressive than in the past (so think a guy like Purke could be in play), but yeah 4 vs 6, we could easily blow that 4th pick.....I mean, in 1991 we pick 13th and take Manny....in 1992 we have the #2 pick and we take Shuey. It's not a crapshoot, but you can find GREAT talent in the 6-10 range every year. Not too mention the lower the pick, the more money you have for your 2nd-10th round guys.

I like that our young pitchers have pitched pretty well lately. I'd rather see this than them getting shelled.

Y'all must be REALLY enjoying this late run now. All we have to do is keep this up & maybe we fall behind the Nats.

How does the 8th pick sound to you? Just take a look at the guys that basically we have no chance to draft just because of this stupid, happens every year, late season run. A hot streak now doesn't even affect attendance the way it would at the start the year. The Tribe is off the radar right now.

There are guys at the top of this draft that I'd love to get into our system. You talk about 2nd-10th Round guys but we pick lower in all of those rounds too. We sit and wait and get to choose from what's left over. And hope we get lucky.


It seems as if ytou're frustrated and angry that we aren't intentionally losing our games late in the season so that we can get as high a draft pick as possible next June. I mean, I'd like to have a shot at sone of the high ranked talents that will be around in picks before we select next draft as well, but how do you go about telling ytoung players fighting for their professional livelihoods, and getting their first taste of big league ball to go out there and tank so the team can draft higher next draft ?

The drafts where you have a player taken at 4 that is so significantly higher in overall value than a player takjen at 8, at the time of the draft, is rare. I mean, aftyer the fact a number of years you could point to a player taken at a particular spot as having extremely differeing values, but at the exact point in a draft... not telling enough to have a philosophy down the strectch to toss games...that's nuts.

If you'll show me where I suggested that we "go out there and tank", "toss games" or that I said that I'm "frustrated and angry that we aren't intentionally losing", then we would have a basis for discussion.

If by "young players fighting for their professional livelihoods" you mean Shelley Duncan, Andy Marte, and Trevor Crowe, all of whom have played major parts in these wonderful late season thrills, I really couldn't care less. These guys won't play any meaningful part going forward. I'm sure they're nice guys. I hope that they enjoy their time in MLB...with some other team.

As far as the value of drafting earlier, last year there was, "at the time of the draft", a significant difference between picks only one slot apart. According to most people, the top three guys drafted last year were drafted in the order of their value, and they were rated head and shoulders above the guys picked after them.
JP_Frost wrote:I want certain players to succeed. Guys like Daz mentioned, but if Carrasco pitches 7 shutout innings and Jensen Lewis gives up 4 runs en route to a loss, I'm fine with that. I don't want the team to tank, because the draft is too much a crapshoot for that, but I don't mind losing these last few games either.

This is exactly my philosophy. This is what you want in a developmental year. This is especially what you want this year because I believe that the team will be significantly better next year. This is probably the last shot that we have at such a high pick(hopefully) for a while. There also may be changes impending due to a new CBA next year.

If we're going to have such a shitty year we might as well get the most benefit that we can from it.
Rocky55
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:34 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Update with 6 games left:

1. Pirates (55-101): --
2. Mariners (60-96): 5.0 GB
3. Orioles (62-94): 7.0 GB
4. Diamondbacks (64-92): 9.0 GB
5. Royals (64-92): 9.0 GB
6. Indians (66-91): 10.5 GB
7. Compensation pick (Diamondbacks)
8. Nationals (67-90): 11.5 GB
9. Cubs (71-85): 16.0 GB
10. Brewers (73-82): 18.5 GB

Indians can only tie Cubs, so looks like it is down to just the Nationals to ensure we don't slide to 8th. No shot really at #3, but still a shot at #4.


If this has already been answered I apologize...but is the same tie-breaker in effect for us and the Royals? Meaning if we tie it goes back to our 2008 records? Or would they only look at 2009 (when we tied) and then go to a secondary tie breaker to see who "wins" that 5th pick?
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby danh8 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:19 pm

(((If you'll show me where I suggested that we "go out there and tank", "toss games" or that I said that I'm "frustrated and angry that we aren't intentionally losing", then we would have a basis for discussion.

If by "young players fighting for their professional livelihoods" you mean Shelley Duncan, Andy Marte, and Trevor Crowe, all of whom have played major parts in these wonderful late season thrills, I really couldn't care less. These guys won't play any meaningful part going forward. I'm sure they're nice guys. I hope that they enjoy their time in MLB...with some other team.)))

I apologize of I misrepresented your thoughts and opinions ...

I'd personally love to see us draft high and get a marquee player in this coming draft ...and can share some disspointment if we don't get a certain player that I covet that should be off the board at some point early on in round one. But, for the mopst part I believe we are utilizing players that we have some degree of development, needed exposure and experience, anda want and need to evaluate further to determine if in fact they belong on our team moving forward.

The three players you mentioned above are players that are surely on the fence guys that could go either way when coming to some determination after the season concludes. Marte, due to his dwindling opportunities seems to have already established his fate, in my opinion. Duncan and Crowe are players that very well could serve us in some capacity moving forward into next season.

But, the vast majority of players contributing down the stretch are players with either youth,potential, strong roles, and commitments to on into the future.

I can understand frustrations in not being able to select a player that might not be taken before our pick in round one of this coming June's draft...but, also don't see us playing an unreasonable percentage of players that don't have some justification for being put in the lineup.

We appear to be accomplishing some productive things down the stretch that hopefully carry over and help establish them moving forward. Guys like Carrasco, Tomlin, Gomez, Pestano, and a handful of others are players that appear to be winning games for us and also building a foundation of some degree of success at this level ...something that justifies their drafting, potential, and development ...

what we would be looking to accomplish with the player that will be selected with our pick from 4-8 in this June's draft.. At some point he will most likely be in the same situation in a furue September that these guys are.

When you go between the lines and play the game you gotta play to win. Nothing positive comes from doing otherwise, in my opinion.
danh8
Rookie Baller
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 12:49 am

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby petes999 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:13 pm

Looks like we are locked into the 8th slot with the 7th worst record. With Nationals losing 7-2 in the bottom of the 8th, we can only tie them and KC if we lose our last games and they both win out (other than Wash today). And, with them drafting before us last year, isn't the rule that they will draft before us again if we have a tie in records (due to them having worse records the year before)?

And, we can hold our heads up high beating KC, Det and Chi at the end of the season. Unfortunately, this has happened before (win the meaningless games and lose the meaningful games). Or, win when we should lose and lose when we want to win.
petes999
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:02 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby A.Zajac » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:01 pm

petes999 wrote:Looks like we are locked into the 8th slot with the 7th worst record. With Nationals losing 7-2 in the bottom of the 8th, we can only tie them and KC if we lose our last games and they both win out (other than Wash today). And, with them drafting before us last year, isn't the rule that they will draft before us again if we have a tie in records (due to them having worse records the year before)?

And, we can hold our heads up high beating KC, Det and Chi at the end of the season. Unfortunately, this has happened before (win the meaningless games and lose the meaningful games). Or, win when we should lose and lose when we want to win.


Doesn't bother me a ton. The '11 draft class is pretty deep, and IMO, there's really no difference between 5-8.
Follow me on Twitter!
@AndrewIPI
User avatar
A.Zajac
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:31 am
Location: Struthers, OH

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby elrod enchilada » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:54 pm

I agree. This is one year where there will be at least eight-ten players in the draft who are top 3 or top 5 talents in other seasons, so if we scout well and get lucky and are willing to pay, we will get one of them. 8 is fine. It is the sort of year where you might get the best player int he draft with the 8th pick. Plus there is a ton of really good pitching, and if other teams go to it, that might leave some position studs still on the board.
elrod enchilada
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:19 pm

I agree 8 would be fine the Dbacks would probably go with a safe pick at 7 so really the potential that our pick is equivalent to the 7th overall pick and a top 5 pick as far as talent that will be available.

I would tell these kids were throwing out there everyday to lose anyhow, the Tribe really needs to ingrain a culture of winning and will only promote the competitive atmosphere by letting these guys play out the season going full force.
homerawayfromhome
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2420
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:17 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby JP_Frost » Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:07 am

Meh.

I have mixed feeling about this. Sure a top 10 pick in next year's draft class is fine, but the fact that we have some teams ahead of us willing to spend (KC, Baltimore and Washington) means we certainly have to cross some names off the list which would've been available probably if we drafted 5th.

One more reason I wanted a higher draft pick is that we all sort of hope and expect that the Tribe won't have such a high pick the next couple of years, and with CBA changing, who knows what the draft will look like in the future. We needed that blue chip prospect, and we could still get him of course, but that will be a lot harder now. We have depth. We need impact.

Either way, I do agree that Arizona's compensation pick won't hinder us too much, so let the obsession begin.
User avatar
JP_Frost
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2117
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:01 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby elrod enchilada » Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:47 am

Because the Tribe's late run has moved us from pick 3 or 4 to pick 8, that have saved the Tribe one or two million bucks in its signing bonus for the 2011 first round pick.

Let's use the money we saved by playing better to sign Barret Loux and/or some international studs.
elrod enchilada
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:40 pm

JP_Frost wrote:Meh.

I have mixed feeling about this. Sure a top 10 pick in next year's draft class is fine, but the fact that we have some teams ahead of us willing to spend (KC, Baltimore and Washington) means we certainly have to cross some names off the list which would've been available probably if we drafted 5th.

One more reason I wanted a higher draft pick is that we all sort of hope and expect that the Tribe won't have such a high pick the next couple of years, and with CBA changing, who knows what the draft will look like in the future. We needed that blue chip prospect, and we could still get him of course, but that will be a lot harder now. We have depth. We need impact.

Either way, I do agree that Arizona's compensation pick won't hinder us too much, so let the obsession begin.


Is KC a team that'll spend though? Seemed like last year they went safer route with their #1 pick (Colon). Think we all knew Baltimore would be ahead of us.....they had they're own great run going from #1 to possibly #4.


Still think tis much ado about nothing. Had we finished below the Royals last year....we'd still of gotten Pom.


And when guys like Heyward and Trout have been drafted outside the top 10 and are some of the best prospects in the game in the last 2 years. Guys like Lincecum drafted 10th.....time for the scouting department to earn their money. Blue Chip talent can be found every single year at the 8th pick. Just need to get it done. :drinks:
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby JP_Frost » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:06 pm

Agreed on finding top prospects outside of the top 5, but it does make it a little harder. Those guys you mentioned generally aren't the norm (that said, there are no rules and likely outcomes in the draft).

KC is a team that spends though. Look at Hochevar, Hosmer, Moustakas, etc. They certainly aren't afraid to fork over the money or deal with Boras. Maybe Washington will not spend as much considering the price tags they had to agree to with Strasburg and Harper. Guess we'll see. One of the recent mock drafts I saw had us taking Jack Armstrong from Vanderbilt. Obviously it's way too early to be zeroing on particular names, but it definately will be an exciting college season next year.

First we get to make and read top prospect lists and then we can focus on the offseason and draft :yahoo:
User avatar
JP_Frost
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2117
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:01 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby nubballguy » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:12 pm

[quote="JP_Frost"]

We have depth. We need impact.

Really agree with this statement. Cleveland really needs that impact type player like we seemed to develop in the past with guys like Belle, Ramirez and Thome, that caliber A+ player. Even Sizemore at his best wasn't quite there I don't think. Had hoped LaPorta would have been something close to it but we don't see that happening at this point. Santana is the current hope but man, that knee injury, especially to a catcher, really worries me. Chisenhall isn't going to get there IMHO (though a Travis Fryman like career wouldn't be bad at all and I think achievable) and I don't think Kipnis, even as a Pedrioa type, is going to be that guy. I actually think Weglarz might be our best hope (re:potential) of the guys we've got and yet he's got a long way to go to achieve Thome like impact. If there is a true impact bat out there in this year's draft, I really would love to have him, it's the one missing piece of the system. (Then again, who wouldn't?!)
nubballguy
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:39 am

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:37 pm

JP_Frost wrote:Agreed on finding top prospects outside of the top 5, but it does make it a little harder. Those guys you mentioned generally aren't the norm (that said, there are no rules and likely outcomes in the draft).

KC is a team that spends though. Look at Hochevar, Hosmer, Moustakas, etc. They certainly aren't afraid to fork over the money or deal with Boras. Maybe Washington will not spend as much considering the price tags they had to agree to with Strasburg and Harper. Guess we'll see. One of the recent mock drafts I saw had us taking Jack Armstrong from Vanderbilt. Obviously it's way too early to be zeroing on particular names, but it definately will be an exciting college season next year.

First we get to make and read top prospect lists and then we can focus on the offseason and draft :yahoo:


meh, what draft has there been in recent memory that hasn't seen top prospects drafted in the 8-20 range though? I'd argue that it actually is the norm to find top talent in that range....

2003: J. Danks (9th), A. Hill (13th), Billingsley (24th)
2004: Jered Weaver (12th), B. Butler (14th), S. Drew (15th)
2005: A. McCutchen (11th), J. Bruce (12th), Garza (25th), C. Rasmus (28th)
2006: D. Stubbs (8th), Lincecum (10th), M. Scherzer (11th), T. Snider (14th), K. Drabek (18th)
2007: M. Bumgarner (10th), J. Heyward (14th), Porcello (27th)
2008: G. Beckham (8th), J. Smoak (11th), B. Wallace (13th)
2009: M. Leake (8th), J. Turner (9th), K. Gibson (22nd), M. Trout (25th)


Not saying it isn't harder to find these guys outside the top 5....but it really is the norm to find top talent outside the top 5. Happens every single year. Time for Grant and Mirabelli to earn those paychecks :drinks:


Yeah, guess I agree some on KC. Was a lil shortsighted there. Will be interesting to see if they go high talent or more ML ready like this year.



I do get what you're saying too about needing a true impact guy.....just personally feel we can easily find that at the 8 spot in this upcoming draft.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:03 pm

Guess I stand corrected. Didn't think it would've been that many.

I do wonder how next year's changes to the draft will affect the 2011 draft. Obviously we don't know what will be agreed upon in the new CBA, but given it's hazy future, it could be that players are more willing to sign and not risk losing millions of dollars potentially by going back to school. Seems to me like teams have slightly more leverage next year compared to what we're used to.
User avatar
JP_Frost
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2117
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:01 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:09 pm

JP_Frost wrote:Guess I stand corrected. Didn't think it would've been that many.

I do wonder how next year's changes to the draft will affect the 2011 draft. Obviously we don't know what will be agreed upon in the new CBA, but given it's hazy future, it could be that players are more willing to sign and not risk losing millions of dollars potentially by going back to school. Seems to me like teams have slightly more leverage next year compared to what we're used to.


Good point on the possible draft changes. Personally don't have any faith in MLB to get something right, but maybe they'll suprise.

You would think more guys would be willing to sign given the possiblity of changes beyond 2011.....then again, I'd have thought way, way more college juniors would have left for the NFL given the even greater uncertainties (and bigger salary differences) facing this year's draftees. Don't underestimate a 18-22 year old's stubbornness in refusing to look to at the long-term picture.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:22 am

Hermie13 wrote:
JP_Frost wrote:Agreed on finding top prospects outside of the top 5, but it does make it a little harder. Those guys you mentioned generally aren't the norm (that said, there are no rules and likely outcomes in the draft).

KC is a team that spends though. Look at Hochevar, Hosmer, Moustakas, etc. They certainly aren't afraid to fork over the money or deal with Boras. Maybe Washington will not spend as much considering the price tags they had to agree to with Strasburg and Harper. Guess we'll see. One of the recent mock drafts I saw had us taking Jack Armstrong from Vanderbilt. Obviously it's way too early to be zeroing on particular names, but it definately will be an exciting college season next year.

First we get to make and read top prospect lists and then we can focus on the offseason and draft :yahoo:


meh, what draft has there been in recent memory that hasn't seen top prospects drafted in the 8-20 range though? I'd argue that it actually is the norm to find top talent in that range....

2003: J. Danks (9th), A. Hill (13th), Billingsley (24th)
2004: Jered Weaver (12th), B. Butler (14th), S. Drew (15th)
2005: A. McCutchen (11th), J. Bruce (12th), Garza (25th), C. Rasmus (28th)
2006: D. Stubbs (8th), Lincecum (10th), M. Scherzer (11th), T. Snider (14th), K. Drabek (18th)
2007: M. Bumgarner (10th), J. Heyward (14th), Porcello (27th)
2008: G. Beckham (8th), J. Smoak (11th), B. Wallace (13th)
2009: M. Leake (8th), J. Turner (9th), K. Gibson (22nd), M. Trout (25th)


Not saying it isn't harder to find these guys outside the top 5....but it really is the norm to find top talent outside the top 5. Happens every single year. Time for Grant and Mirabelli to earn those paychecks :drinks:


Yeah, guess I agree some on KC. Was a lil shortsighted there. Will be interesting to see if they go high talent or more ML ready like this year.



I do get what you're saying too about needing a true impact guy.....just personally feel we can easily find that at the 8 spot in this upcoming draft.

Hey, I just got a great idea!!!!

Why don't we see if we can convince Grant to pass on the first round pick???

Look at how many great players were picked in Round 2!!!!

Look at how much money we'd save for late flyers & International FA's!!!!

Shit, maybe we could just skip the draft altogether. Then we'd be talking REAL savings.
Rocky55
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:30 pm

Rocky55 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
JP_Frost wrote:Agreed on finding top prospects outside of the top 5, but it does make it a little harder. Those guys you mentioned generally aren't the norm (that said, there are no rules and likely outcomes in the draft).

KC is a team that spends though. Look at Hochevar, Hosmer, Moustakas, etc. They certainly aren't afraid to fork over the money or deal with Boras. Maybe Washington will not spend as much considering the price tags they had to agree to with Strasburg and Harper. Guess we'll see. One of the recent mock drafts I saw had us taking Jack Armstrong from Vanderbilt. Obviously it's way too early to be zeroing on particular names, but it definately will be an exciting college season next year.

First we get to make and read top prospect lists and then we can focus on the offseason and draft :yahoo:


meh, what draft has there been in recent memory that hasn't seen top prospects drafted in the 8-20 range though? I'd argue that it actually is the norm to find top talent in that range....

2003: J. Danks (9th), A. Hill (13th), Billingsley (24th)
2004: Jered Weaver (12th), B. Butler (14th), S. Drew (15th)
2005: A. McCutchen (11th), J. Bruce (12th), Garza (25th), C. Rasmus (28th)
2006: D. Stubbs (8th), Lincecum (10th), M. Scherzer (11th), T. Snider (14th), K. Drabek (18th)
2007: M. Bumgarner (10th), J. Heyward (14th), Porcello (27th)
2008: G. Beckham (8th), J. Smoak (11th), B. Wallace (13th)
2009: M. Leake (8th), J. Turner (9th), K. Gibson (22nd), M. Trout (25th)


Not saying it isn't harder to find these guys outside the top 5....but it really is the norm to find top talent outside the top 5. Happens every single year. Time for Grant and Mirabelli to earn those paychecks :drinks:


Yeah, guess I agree some on KC. Was a lil shortsighted there. Will be interesting to see if they go high talent or more ML ready like this year.



I do get what you're saying too about needing a true impact guy.....just personally feel we can easily find that at the 8 spot in this upcoming draft.

Hey, I just got a great idea!!!!

Why don't we see if we can convince Grant to pass on the first round pick???

Look at how many great players were picked in Round 2!!!!

Look at how much money we'd save for late flyers & International FA's!!!!

Shit, maybe we could just skip the draft altogether. Then we'd be talking REAL savings.


What does money have to do with the post you quoted? :rolleyes:


Point of my post was you can ALWAYS find stud talent in the 8-20 range. It's a fact.

In 1991 the Tribe had the 13th pick and got Manny Ramirez. In 1992 they had the 2nd pick and got Paul Shuey. I don't see the need to whine about dropping 3-4 draft spots when in the end it may mean absolutely nothing.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:00 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
JP_Frost wrote:Agreed on finding top prospects outside of the top 5, but it does make it a little harder. Those guys you mentioned generally aren't the norm (that said, there are no rules and likely outcomes in the draft).

KC is a team that spends though. Look at Hochevar, Hosmer, Moustakas, etc. They certainly aren't afraid to fork over the money or deal with Boras. Maybe Washington will not spend as much considering the price tags they had to agree to with Strasburg and Harper. Guess we'll see. One of the recent mock drafts I saw had us taking Jack Armstrong from Vanderbilt. Obviously it's way too early to be zeroing on particular names, but it definately will be an exciting college season next year.

First we get to make and read top prospect lists and then we can focus on the offseason and draft :yahoo:


meh, what draft has there been in recent memory that hasn't seen top prospects drafted in the 8-20 range though? I'd argue that it actually is the norm to find top talent in that range....

2003: J. Danks (9th), A. Hill (13th), Billingsley (24th)
2004: Jered Weaver (12th), B. Butler (14th), S. Drew (15th)
2005: A. McCutchen (11th), J. Bruce (12th), Garza (25th), C. Rasmus (28th)
2006: D. Stubbs (8th), Lincecum (10th), M. Scherzer (11th), T. Snider (14th), K. Drabek (18th)
2007: M. Bumgarner (10th), J. Heyward (14th), Porcello (27th)
2008: G. Beckham (8th), J. Smoak (11th), B. Wallace (13th)
2009: M. Leake (8th), J. Turner (9th), K. Gibson (22nd), M. Trout (25th)


Not saying it isn't harder to find these guys outside the top 5....but it really is the norm to find top talent outside the top 5. Happens every single year. Time for Grant and Mirabelli to earn those paychecks :drinks:


Yeah, guess I agree some on KC. Was a lil shortsighted there. Will be interesting to see if they go high talent or more ML ready like this year.



I do get what you're saying too about needing a true impact guy.....just personally feel we can easily find that at the 8 spot in this upcoming draft.

Hey, I just got a great idea!!!!

Why don't we see if we can convince Grant to pass on the first round pick???

Look at how many great players were picked in Round 2!!!!

Look at how much money we'd save for late flyers & International FA's!!!!

Shit, maybe we could just skip the draft altogether. Then we'd be talking REAL savings.


What does money have to do with the post you quoted? :rolleyes:


Point of my post was you can ALWAYS find stud talent in the 8-20 range. It's a fact.

In 1991 the Tribe had the 13th pick and got Manny Ramirez. In 1992 they had the 2nd pick and got Paul Shuey. I don't see the need to whine about dropping 3-4 draft spots when in the end it may mean absolutely nothing.

...and Aubrey at #11 in '03, and Crowe at #14 in '05, and Mills at 13 in '07, yadda, yadda, yadda...

We're not going to agree. I'm not going to shut up and go away. If the ML team is shitty, I'd like as high a draft slot as possible. You don't care. Fine.

It's also a fact that the higher you draft the less you have to worry about the team drafting in front of you taking the guy you really want.

Also, saving money for later picks has been mentioned lots of times as a benefit of having a lower pick. I didn't mean to imply that you said it though.

Last, why does expressing an opinion that you don't agree with constitute whining in you mind?
Rocky55
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby jellis » Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:33 pm

I am working on a new column using math to show the drop off pick by pick, that might be something that will help show if the Indians screwed themselves or not
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:12 pm

I hope that nobody believes that I think that the team should lose on purpose for a higher draft slot. This is more of a "Just our luck" kinda thing with me.

Any player on that team that wasn't busting his ass to win shouldn't be on the team. It'd be an insult to the loyal 15K or so fans that showed up to watch their sorry asses if they didn't.

I know it's annoying to read somebody bitching about it when some other folks(JP) already feel bad about it but I was really looking forward to a top 3/4 slot this year & until the last ten games it looked like we'd get it. So close...

Oh well, do we go HS bat/position player(Swihart, Lindor, Harrison...), HS pitcher(Norris, Bradley, Owens...)? Most of those guys should be available at #8.

I've read stuff that makes me think Swihart might be the best available bat after Rendon, including Springer & Jackie Bradley. I like Bradley too, and he might be around at #8, but he might be just a little better version of LeVon Washington.

Just please, no to Jack Armstrong, at least in Round 1.
Rocky55
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:03 pm

Rocky55 wrote:What does money have to do with the post you quoted? :rolleyes:


Point of my post was you can ALWAYS find stud talent in the 8-20 range. It's a fact.

In 1991 the Tribe had the 13th pick and got Manny Ramirez. In 1992 they had the 2nd pick and got Paul Shuey. I don't see the need to whine about dropping 3-4 draft spots when in the end it may mean absolutely nothing.

...and Aubrey at #11 in '03, and Crowe at #14 in '05, and Mills at 13 in '07, yadda, yadda, yadda...

We're not going to agree. I'm not going to shut up and go away. If the ML team is shitty, I'd like as high a draft slot as possible. You don't care. Fine.

It's also a fact that the higher you draft the less you have to worry about the team drafting in front of you taking the guy you really want.

Also, saving money for later picks has been mentioned lots of times as a benefit of having a lower pick. I didn't mean to imply that you said it though.

Last, why does expressing an opinion that you don't agree with constitute whining in you mind?[/quote]


Expressing an opinion that I disagree with isn't whining. I said you were whining because you're upset that the Tribe finished so well and dropped 3-4 draft spots. Being upset isn't really an opinion.


The Indians also aren't "shitty". Way too much talent on this team to finish as one of the worst teams (note, not a good team though). We definitely had more talent than all the teams we finished ahead of. Don't really see how you can debate that. So you're basically getting upset that the Tribe played better than the teams worse then them.....


And yes, the INDIANS blew picks in the 10-20 range in the past. Every team does at one point or another. But as I SAID it's on Grant and Mirabelli to make good picks. Whether you have the 1st overall pick or the 30th, if you can't draft well it won't matter. Again, Paul Shuey and Jeremy Sowers. Top picks don't guarantee talent, especially when you're the Tribe.


If we had the 5th pick the year we may very well have still taken Aubrey.....really doubt we'd have done any better with our money and how we drafted that whole early part of the decade. We took Aubrey and Snyder yet ignored the Ohio-boy Billingsley who I know many people wanted.


And Mills at 13...while it looks bad, he was actually a top 7-8 talent in the draft according to most scouts/analysts. Don't recall a single mock that didn't have him going top 10 and is one reason the Indians drafted him. Shapiro was quoted as saying they were "shocked" he fell to 13.

So you're actually proving my point. Whether you have a good spot or not, you can blow it. Heyward taken 14th after Mills. So being 13th that year didn't hurt us.....picking a bad player did.

Hell, look at the Sowers' draft. 5 of the guys drafted in the top 10 never even made the MLs. Prior to last season Sowers was the 3rd best pick from that top 10 (Niemann and Bailey have passed him since).



Bottom line, any time young players win it's good. Have never heard a good arguement against this, probably because one doesn't exist.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:10 pm

Rocky55 wrote:I hope that nobody believes that I think that the team should lose on purpose for a higher draft slot. This is more of a "Just our luck" kinda thing with me.

Any player on that team that wasn't busting his ass to win shouldn't be on the team. It'd be an insult to the loyal 15K or so fans that showed up to watch their sorry asses if they didn't.

I know it's annoying to read somebody bitching about it when some other folks(JP) already feel bad about it but I was really looking forward to a top 3/4 slot this year & until the last ten games it looked like we'd get it. So close...

Oh well, do we go HS bat/position player(Swihart, Lindor, Harrison...), HS pitcher(Norris, Bradley, Owens...)? Most of those guys should be available at #8.

I've read stuff that makes me think Swihart might be the best available bat after Rendon, including Springer & Jackie Bradley. I like Bradley too, and he might be around at #8, but he might be just a little better version of LeVon Washington.

Just please, no to Jack Armstrong, at least in Round 1.


I'll let it go after this.....but you really called me out for saying you were "whining" they admit a post later that you were in fact "bitching" about the very thing I said you were whining about? ha, really? :rolleyes:


As far as who we take, still think one of the big time college pitchers will fall to #8. Again, we kind of have pick 7.5. I can't see the D'backs going top talent twice in the top 7 when one pick isn't protected (but maybe they will). Think you may see a Christian Colon type guy go in there (still a nice talent, but no way top 10 worthy).

I'm a fan of Christian Lopes. #8 is too high at the moment but with a big senior year I think he cracks the top 10. Team needs help at SS and he very well could stick there.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:43 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:I hope that nobody believes that I think that the team should lose on purpose for a higher draft slot. This is more of a "Just our luck" kinda thing with me.

Any player on that team that wasn't busting his ass to win shouldn't be on the team. It'd be an insult to the loyal 15K or so fans that showed up to watch their sorry asses if they didn't.

I know it's annoying to read somebody bitching about it when some other folks(JP) already feel bad about it but I was really looking forward to a top 3/4 slot this year & until the last ten games it looked like we'd get it. So close...

Oh well, do we go HS bat/position player(Swihart, Lindor, Harrison...), HS pitcher(Norris, Bradley, Owens...)? Most of those guys should be available at #8.

I've read stuff that makes me think Swihart might be the best available bat after Rendon, including Springer & Jackie Bradley. I like Bradley too, and he might be around at #8, but he might be just a little better version of LeVon Washington.

Just please, no to Jack Armstrong, at least in Round 1.


I'll let it go after this.....but you really called me out for saying you were "whining" they admit a post later that you were in fact "bitching" about the very thing I said you were whining about? ha, really? :rolleyes:

C'mon, we both know that bitching is much more manly than whining. :s_biggrin

I "think" also we both know that Grant would not pick Sowers & Mills. The main reason I was pulling for a higher draft slot is that I'm confident that our boy genius(Grant) would be able to capitalize on it. If that numbnuts Mirabelli was still in charge, it wouldn't matter.

Shapiro being shocked that Mills fell was just to put a good face on not drafting Porcello, who was the obvious pick "at the time of the draft" and who was just too expensive. Shap just didn't want to admit it. As for the rest, I'll try to cover all of it:

The team is shitty, the team played shitty but the players are great; a difference that doesn't make a difference. Your draft pick is based on how you play, not on the opinion of fans of the team's talent.

IMO(I'm allowed an opinion, right?) Washington has a better current team(the '10 model). They played WAY better than the Tribe before injuries. I'd swap ML teams with them any day.

Lastly, I reserve the right as a U.S. citizen to engage in manly bitching whenever I feel the urge. Being a Tribe fan just gives me more reason & opportunity.
Rocky55
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:24 pm

Rocky55 wrote:C'mon, we both know that bitching is much more manly than whining. :s_biggrin

I "think" also we both know that Grant would not pick Sowers & Mills. The main reason I was pulling for a higher draft slot is that I'm confident that our boy genius(Grant) would be able to capitalize on it. If that numbnuts Mirabelli was still in charge, it wouldn't matter.

Shapiro being shocked that Mills fell was just to put a good face on not drafting Porcello, who was the obvious pick "at the time of the draft" and who was just too expensive. Shap just didn't want to admit it. As for the rest, I'll try to cover all of it:

The team is shitty, the team played shitty but the players are great; a difference that doesn't make a difference. Your draft pick is based on how you play, not on the opinion of fans of the team's talent.

IMO(I'm allowed an opinion, right?) Washington has a better current team(the '10 model). They played WAY better than the Tribe before injuries. I'd swap ML teams with them any day.

Lastly, I reserve the right as a U.S. citizen to engage in manly bitching whenever I feel the urge. Being a Tribe fan just gives me more reason & opportunity.




Mills? I agree on....but Sowers? I'm not so sure. I'm sure Grant would not have wanted to draft Sowers....but financially the Indians just didn't seem willing to spend back then like htey have recently. Grant would have had to have stayed in the Tribe's budget and very likely would have gone with the lower upside guy.

I agree on Porcello...but that goes back to the spending thing. Could grant have convinced the Tribe to spend more? I mean, he was involved in the draft right? just not as big a position as he has now.


I agree with what you said. The team draft pick is based on how you play. The team did play shitty....but not as bad as the other teams. If they did, they'd have lost more games than the teams beneath them. Draft pick is based on how you play obviously, Tribe played better. Why did they play better though? because they have more talent.


I disagree strongly on Washington. First off, Grady was injured coming out of spring training....so they couldn't have played better than us "before the injuries" as we had them on Opening Day. We also beat them 2 of 3 in head-to-head. Zimmerman and I guess Dunn are studs....but other than that, give me the Tribe (and Choo had a higher WAR than Zimmerman depending on which version you use). Strasburg vs santana? Yeah, I probably would have taken Stras pre-injury....but give me Santana. Many people (myself included) called this injury of Stras's back even when he was in college. His arm action just streams elbow issues.


ha, fair enough....I reserve the right as a US citizen to get upset over your "manly" bitching then :drinks:
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:55 pm

Obviously Strasburg's injury is a big deal, but let's not forget that Santana suffered a pretty serious injury himself which could threaten his career behind the plate.

Anyway I agree with most that has been said. Now begins the fun part and the waiting game.
User avatar
JP_Frost
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2117
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:01 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby OhioBaseball » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:34 pm

Totally random observation, but watching the SF-ATL game tonight and I think Madison Bumgarnder is a really good comp for Matt Purke. Similar velocities, similar arm actions. I think Bumgarner has a stronger, more athletic build, but the two are very similar. I've always thought Bumgarner was overrated, but just my lone opinion. He can't pitch up in the strike zone and righties get a good look at him. Those types (most often) don't turn out to be front of the rotation starters.
OhioBaseball
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 654
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:00 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Rocky55 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:20 pm

Changed my mind(in a manly way). I don't mind picking eighth.

I've been looking at a lot of video in the last couple of days and reading notes on games I've seen. I've added some guys to my wish list. Y'all can check most of these guys out on youtube.

Henry Owens might pull a Zach Wheeler & shoot up the lists this year. He doesn't throw really hard as he'll probably sit around 91. He's got a nice curve ball & good command for a kid. He's pretty coordinated for such a tall guy. He throws downhill, stays on top of the ball and keeps his front shoulder closed. He has excellent command for a HS'er. One thing to watch is that he slows his arm down appreciably when he throws his BB.

Travis Harrison is the RH power bat that lots of teams(incl the Tribe) would like to have. Damn that kid can crush it. As far as contct skills, I can't judge & would really like to hear from anyone who's seen him. Has played 3B but could end up in the OF or 1B.

Archie Bradley has #1 SP stuff but will be expensive as a 2 sport guy. Might be worth the money though.

I only saw Sam Stafford of Texas once so you could throw that out but I saw a big, hard throwing LHP with the full arsenal who knows how to pitch. He should be a Saturday starter for Texas behind Jungmann. That's going to be a hell of a rotation.

Will Lamb from Clemson might be this years' Brett Eibner. He's still raw but toolsy. Tall, skinny, & fast. Older guys might comp him with Von Hayes. Will pitch(might be his best position, like Eibner), play OF & 1B. Could probably play anywhere on the diamond.

This draft is DEEP.

I'd appreciate hearing input from anyone who has seen any of these guys play. Also scouting reports/opinions of anyone else's faves.
Rocky55
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby OhioBaseball » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:09 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Will Lamb from Clemson might be this years' Brett Eibner. He's still raw but toolsy. Tall, skinny, & fast. Older guys might comp him with Von Hayes. Will pitch(might be his best position, like Eibner), play OF & 1B. Could probably play anywhere on the diamond.


Good call on Lamb. I also like him. Very interesting tool-set. I like him as a pitcher, too. I don't expect him to go in the first few rounds, but I think he'd make a nice selection around the 5th-6th round.
OhioBaseball
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 654
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:00 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:13 pm

Oh.. before too many postings go by.. hey Hermie.. damn glad to see me.... lol

The signing bonus question seems to be one of the stumbling blocks to projecting where some fans (specifically Rocky & Hermie) wanted the Indians to finish.. Here is the break down of the top 10 picks from the 2009 draft:

1) Washington: Bryce Harper - $9.9M signing bonus
2) Pittsburgh: Jameson Taillon - $6.5M signing bonus
3) Baltimore: Manny Machado - $5.25M signing bonus
4) Kansas City: Christian Colon - $2,75M signing bonus
5) Cleveland: Drew Pomeranz - $2.65M signing bonus
6) Arizona: Barret Loux - Did not sign, failed physical
7) New York Mets: Matt Harvey - $2.5M signing bonus
8) Houston: Delino DeSheilds Jr. - $2.15M signing bonus
9) San Diego: Karsten Whitson - No contract signed, will attend Florida
10) Oakland: Michael Choice - $2M signing bonus

While it's been "universally" accepted that the top three guys for THIS and only this draft were considered "elite", it's easy to see the guys who were drafted & signed afterwards marched in "lock step" w/r to their signing bonus..

The net effect is pretty clear.. Elite players (scouting reports, only) get drafted early and teams pay dearly for their John Hancock on the contract. The Indians spent nearly $ 10 MM on the entire draft...signing 25 or so guys.. IF the same budget is available for the 2011 season AND IF the indians had the first pick.. he'd be the only guy who would get a bonus.. that is.. no other signee.. Now this is theoretcial, of course as signing a player has a number of factors.. Prep/HS versus College.. Sophomore Eligible versus Senior.. Elite versus pretty darn good, & "it's Chris Sale, not Josh Sale that's going to be the star..."..etc.

At the end of the day, drafting is a "fine art", mystified by science and statistics, wrapped in emotion and set out for criticism by teams selecting the "best available" while watching a player drafted # 43 overal (Taijuan Walker for Seattle) turn into the best player from the draft in the shortest amount of time..
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3937
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby TonyIBI » Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:46 am

Loux has signed with the Rangers for $312K
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5056
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby danh8 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Loux has signed with the Rangers for $312K


a huge bargain, ultimately..
danh8
Rookie Baller
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 12:49 am

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:36 pm

..a huge bargain, ultimately..
Potentially a huge bargain.. if his failed medical was due to an elbow issue.. then, there is a much higher likelihood that he will eventually be a huge bargain.. all bets are off, when it's the shoulder ( "fraying in Loux's labrum" )... you have to expect some mileage on a shoulder.. but.. it's risky.. This injury, effectively cost Loux nearly $ 1.7 MM in bonus money, so, he may be pitching with a chip (figuratively only?) on his shoulder..
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3937
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:45 am

On Andy Seiler's blog, from which Andy has been absent for a while, "some guy" has posted a new list of the top 150 specs for the '11 Draft. Just his opinion, but interesting. The rankings differ quite a bit from the usual lists. Without knowing where(mid 50's?) the Tribe will draft in the 2nd Round, there are some pretty good players that should be available about then. Maybe not as good as Levon Washington but you never know.

If any of you California guys have any info/insight on Billy Flamion, I'd appreciate reading it.

Only a little over six months to go. :biggrin:
Rocky55
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:24 pm

here's my first pk http://baseballbeginnings.com/2009/11/0 ... rong-video. Its still very early but assuming he progresses well and is healthy I think he could be the guy. I like power pitchers, and he has a good curve too. He's smooth in his throwing motion and already hits 96 with the potential to add a cpl more mph.
homerawayfromhome
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2420
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:17 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby dc101 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:36 am

Strange to see this fall off the first page. Obviously kind of a slow period right now, but I would be intersted in hearing more about what direction the Tribe look at the top of this draft. It would be nice to add a power hitting 1B, or any raw power to this system.

Who fits that description that might be around when the Indians pick?
dc101
Undrafted Free Agent
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 10:49 am

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:00 am

While the 2011 draft class is deep.. there aren't a lot of premier power guys at the top of the pile.. Here are five candidates that may be considered when it's the Indians turn to pick:

George Springer; UConn OF'er. Five too kind of player.. does it all and has more to offer than just about any other position player that will be draft eligible.. if he's there when the Indians select, this is a no brainer.

Travis Harrison; Prep OF'er, Has the makeup of a power hitter and the numbers to match it.. he could be the best prep bat in the coming 2011 draft

Alex Dickerson; c-OF'er, Junior Indiana; A D won't wow anyone with his defense as a corner OF'er, but he has the kind of bat speed that translates to good power numbers as his baseball career progresses

Preston Tucker; 1B Florida; The "heart and soul" of the Gators program. Tremendous character guy, great batting eye, natural leader

Wallace Gonzalez; Big guy with plenty of upside. Can play OF or 1B, projects as a Mike Stanton/Adrian Gonzalez type.
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3937
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Rocky55 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:40 pm

dc101 wrote:Strange to see this fall off the first page. Obviously kind of a slow period right now, but I would be intersted in hearing more about what direction the Tribe look at the top of this draft. It would be nice to add a power hitting 1B, or any raw power to this system.

Who fits that description that might be around when the Indians pick?

dc, you might want to go on youtube & check out some of these guys. The Baseball Factory has lots of good vids. As for your question, Bubba Starling has a good chance to be drafted @ the Tribe's pick. Later picks might be Harold Martinez of Miami & Ricky Oropesa from USC.

One HS guy that Slinger might have info on is Jacob Anderson from Chino, CA, a HS guy with lots of upside. Joshua Tobias is a little MIF with lots of pop.

One guy that had me hyped was Addison Russell from Pace HS in Miami. Check out his vid. I couldn't find him in the FL HS top draft specs but then I realized he's a'12 grad. A guy to keep an eye on for the '12 Draft. Real athlete at SS with a lightning quick bat.
Last edited by Rocky55 on Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rocky55
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby OhioBaseball » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:30 pm

Rocky55 wrote:
dc101 wrote:Strange to see this fall off the first page. Obviously kind of a slow period right now, but I would be intersted in hearing more about what direction the Tribe look at the top of this draft. It would be nice to add a power hitting 1B, or any raw power to this system.

Who fits that description that might be around when the Indians pick?

dc, you might want to go on youtube & check out some of these guys. The Baseball Factory has lots of good vids. As for your question, Bubba Starling has a good chance to be drafted @ the Tribe's pick. Later picks might be Harold Martinez of Miami & Ricky Oropesa from USC.

One HS guy that Slinger might have info on is Jacob Anderson from Chino, CA, a HS guy with lots of upside. George Tobias is a little MIF with lots of pop.

One guy that had me hyped was Addison Russell from Pace HS in Miami. Check out his vid. I couldn't find him in the FL HS top draft specs but then I realized he's a'12 grad. A guy to keep an eye on for the '12 Draft. Real athlete at SS with a lightning quick bat.


Rocky...Addison Russell...Holy cow what an awesome talent. That bat speed is incredible. We're talking Gary Sheffield-type bat speed already with WOOD! Its really hard to believe that he's a 16 or 17 year old swinging a wood bat that well. Unreal. If the Indians tank and get the #1 pick, it would be an excellent year to do it! That guy is legit. I'd like to see him run, but he's got the potential to be an Alex Rodriguez kind of prospect. I am suddenly more OK with the Indians starting Mitch Talbot and Josh Tomlin this year :) Russell is a MEGA prospect.
OhioBaseball
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 654
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:00 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Rocky55 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:38 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:
dc101 wrote:Strange to see this fall off the first page. Obviously kind of a slow period right now, but I would be intersted in hearing more about what direction the Tribe look at the top of this draft. It would be nice to add a power hitting 1B, or any raw power to this system.

Who fits that description that might be around when the Indians pick?

dc, you might want to go on youtube & check out some of these guys. The Baseball Factory has lots of good vids. As for your question, Bubba Starling has a good chance to be drafted @ the Tribe's pick. Later picks might be Harold Martinez of Miami & Ricky Oropesa from USC.

One HS guy that Slinger might have info on is Jacob Anderson from Chino, CA, a HS guy with lots of upside. George Tobias is a little MIF with lots of pop.

One guy that had me hyped was Addison Russell from Pace HS in Miami. Check out his vid. I couldn't find him in the FL HS top draft specs but then I realized he's a'12 grad. A guy to keep an eye on for the '12 Draft. Real athlete at SS with a lightning quick bat.


Rocky...Addison Russell...Holy cow what an awesome talent. That bat speed is incredible. We're talking Gary Sheffield-type bat speed already with WOOD! Its really hard to believe that he's a 16 or 17 year old swinging a wood bat that well. Unreal. If the Indians tank and get the #1 pick, it would be an excellent year to do it! That guy is legit. I'd like to see him run, but he's got the potential to be an Alex Rodriguez kind of prospect. I am suddenly more OK with the Indians starting Mitch Talbot and Josh Tomlin this year :) Russell is a MEGA prospect.


I finally looked at the '12 HS prospect list on PG & Russell is #7. Hard to believe there are 6 better HS specs in his class. He was 16 at the time of that vid. His BD is 1/23/94. Awesome, amazing talent. Love to have him in the Tribe.
Rocky55
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby OhioBaseball » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:44 pm

There's not 6 guys better than him. PG needs to update that list!
OhioBaseball
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 654
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:00 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby danh8 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:51 pm

Rocky55 wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:
dc101 wrote:Strange to see this fall off the first page. Obviously kind of a slow period right now, but I would be intersted in hearing more about what direction the Tribe look at the top of this draft. It would be nice to add a power hitting 1B, or any raw power to this system.

Who fits that description that might be around when the Indians pick?

dc, you might want to go on youtube & check out some of these guys. The Baseball Factory has lots of good vids. As for your question, Bubba Starling has a good chance to be drafted @ the Tribe's pick. Later picks might be Harold Martinez of Miami & Ricky Oropesa from USC.

One HS guy that Slinger might have info on is Jacob Anderson from Chino, CA, a HS guy with lots of upside. George Tobias is a little MIF with lots of pop.

One guy that had me hyped was Addison Russell from Pace HS in Miami. Check out his vid. I couldn't find him in the FL HS top draft specs but then I realized he's a'12 grad. A guy to keep an eye on for the '12 Draft. Real athlete at SS with a lightning quick bat.


Rocky...Addison Russell...Holy cow what an awesome talent. That bat speed is incredible. We're talking Gary Sheffield-type bat speed already with WOOD! Its really hard to believe that he's a 16 or 17 year old swinging a wood bat that well. Unreal. If the Indians tank and get the #1 pick, it would be an excellent year to do it! That guy is legit. I'd like to see him run, but he's got the potential to be an Alex Rodriguez kind of prospect. I am suddenly more OK with the Indians starting Mitch Talbot and Josh Tomlin this year :) Russell is a MEGA prospect.


I finally looked at the '12 HS prospect list on PG & Russell is #7. Hard to believe there are 6 better HS specs in his class. He was 16 at the time of that vid. His BD is 1/23/94. Awesome, amazing talent. Love to have him in the Tribe.


Just checked out Addison Russell's video. That's bat speed that makes a scout drool. Very rare to see that at such a young age, if ever. Certain things in life you can't coach, like being 7 feet tall in basketball. This kid should have an easier trip in the game of baseball than your average bear, that's for sure.
danh8
Rookie Baller
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 12:49 am

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby jellis » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:47 am

I wonder who will draft locker, in this draft. I know he is going to play football, but by all accounts a baseball committed Locker would be a top 3 pick. I assume who ever draft him would hold some degree of rights.
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby TheWord » Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:07 am

Quick note on Addy Russell...

I worked with Team USA for their 16U trials and ensuing trip to Mexico in October, and Addison was with us for that.

Great talent and a great kid, had an arm injury that prevented him from making the final squad.

As you've already seen he's got great bat speed and some natural fluidity that you just don't find in every 16 year old kid you see at a tournament. Seemed like the injury was just dead arm which made his mechanics get a bit sloppy. He's got a lot of work to do to stay at shortstop, as I think he was the 3rd best defensive shortstop of the three guys who had a chance there. In terms of potential though, he was clearly the number one guy. Just not there yet.

Really loosened up after he found out he wouldn't make the final team, played loose and hit an pretty nice opposite field bomb in the closing scrimmage.

Quiet kid who goes about his business and really never said a word to anyone all week. Injury was a pretty tough thing to take as you might expect, but he and his family made sure he went and got checked out immediately and didn't try and play through it (something no 16 year old should ever do).

Just a boatload of potential there and a certain first rounder next year when it's all said and done.

Lots of work to do.




By the way, those PG rankings for the younger kids are purely subjective. They're really just a list of the better kids and don't have a very precise order that is expected to be taken as set in stone.
TheWord
Rookie Baller
 
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:06 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:54 am

...By the way, those PG rankings for the younger kids are purely subjective. They're really just a list of the better kids and don't have a very precise order that is expected to be taken as set in stone..
Precision and accuracy in projections provide the "sizzle" that makes the steak soooooooo good !!...
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3937
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:34 pm

jellis wrote:I wonder who will draft locker, in this draft. I know he is going to play football, but by all accounts a baseball committed Locker would be a top 3 pick. I assume who ever draft him would hold some degree of rights.


I thought the Angels already did and had his rights still? He has a $100K retainer in the bank according to reports from them. Probably what made his decision to go back to school so much easier.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:38 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
jellis wrote:I wonder who will draft locker, in this draft. I know he is going to play football, but by all accounts a baseball committed Locker would be a top 3 pick. I assume who ever draft him would hold some degree of rights.


I thought the Angels already did and had his rights still? He has a $100K retainer in the bank according to reports from them. Probably what made his decision to go back to school so much easier.
Hermie is correct..the Angels have an agreement where if Locker's path to football isn't what he wants it to be.. he will then become property of the Angels.. the agreement is effective through 2015...
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3937
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby jellis » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:07 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
jellis wrote:I wonder who will draft locker, in this draft. I know he is going to play football, but by all accounts a baseball committed Locker would be a top 3 pick. I assume who ever draft him would hold some degree of rights.


I thought the Angels already did and had his rights still? He has a $100K retainer in the bank according to reports from them. Probably what made his decision to go back to school so much easier.
Hermie is correct..the Angels have an agreement where if Locker's path to football isn't what he wants it to be.. he will then become property of the Angels.. the agreement is effective through 2015...



thanks for the info, I didn't know, a very astute move by the Angels.
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: 2011 Amateur Draft

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:24 pm

TheWord wrote:Quick note on Addy Russell...

I worked with Team USA for their 16U trials and ensuing trip to Mexico in October, and Addison was with us for that.

Great talent and a great kid, had an arm injury that prevented him from making the final squad.

As you've already seen he's got great bat speed and some natural fluidity that you just don't find in every 16 year old kid you see at a tournament. Seemed like the injury was just dead arm which made his mechanics get a bit sloppy. He's got a lot of work to do to stay at shortstop, as I think he was the 3rd best defensive shortstop of the three guys who had a chance there. In terms of potential though, he was clearly the number one guy. Just not there yet.

Really loosened up after he found out he wouldn't make the final team, played loose and hit an pretty nice opposite field bomb in the closing scrimmage.

Quiet kid who goes about his business and really never said a word to anyone all week. Injury was a pretty tough thing to take as you might expect, but he and his family made sure he went and got checked out immediately and didn't try and play through it (something no 16 year old should ever do).

Just a boatload of potential there and a certain first rounder next year when it's all said and done.

Lots of work to do.




By the way, those PG rankings for the younger kids are purely subjective. They're really just a list of the better kids and don't have a very precise order that is expected to be taken as set in stone.


Thanks for the update. The vid is dated August 14. I have a few things I noticed; PG has him listed at 6' 185lbs. The vid has him at 6'1" 193lbs. Do you have a sense that he might grow out of SS or does he look like he can stick? PG lists him as a 6.79 runner for the 60.

I read an article on the Pace team after a semifinal win over Tampa King in the FL state tournament. It calls Russell a "diamond in the rough" and also says that even though he was hitting .556 with 11 HR, he is "known more for his range & arm at shortstop".

This is a sophomore playing for what was at the time the #2 ranked HS team nationally. The opposing coach said that he wanted to ask Russell for his autograph & comped him with Barry Larkin.

I'd REALLY like the Tribe to draft this kid.
Rocky55
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1650
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:13 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Indians Prospect Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests