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Jordan Brown to be rostered

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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Jake Taylor » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:04 pm

MickS wrote:Rumor has Jordan Brown as the odd man out. I'm surprised.


I know I'm probably the exception here, but I wouldn't miss Brown as much as Gimenez or Lofgren. I just think he'll be another Sean Casey..
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby npc29 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:04 pm

Actually, it's a 39-man roster. One spot was left open for an offseason acquisition between now and the Draft, which takes place Dec. 11 at the Winter Meetings. Or, of course, the Indians could use that spot to claim an unprotected player from another organization, though that's hardly been their history.

In any event, five guys were protected from the Rule 5 today: C Carlos Santana, OF Trevor Crowe, C Chris Gimenez and RHPs Jeff Stevens and Hector Rondon.


http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/archives ... _song.html

Crowe, Santana, Stevens, Gimenez and Rondon

One spot open..

Looks like we just were tugged along a little longer.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Jake Taylor » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:18 pm

Does this mean that perhaps Tony's speculation about Brown's foot injury is correct? Maybe it's pretty serious and we know no one is going to snatch him up this season...
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby jellis » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:19 pm

Jake Taylor wrote:Does this mean that perhaps Tony's speculation about Brown's foot injury is correct? Maybe it's pretty serious and we know no one is going to snatch him up this season...

I think it came down to giminez and brown and giminez being so versatile was a lot more likely to get drafted
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Duane Kuiper » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:21 pm

Consigliere wrote:Boy, this is strange. Nothing may happen, but it is clear to me the Indians are talking trade. Could be a minor trade to clear roster space, could be something a little bigger. May or may not go down, but I have to believe they are in serious talks on a trade.

Is this how rumors get started?
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby jellis » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:23 pm

I argue they where probably in talks then again so was every team in baseball
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:45 am

I gurantee the Indians are in trade talks........will anything materialize though? who knows.


Pretty suprised Brown wasn't rostered......even if injuried he's likely to get drafted. A team like the Mariners could easily keep him on their team all year as either a 1B or DH...heck, maybe even a bit of LF. He's as good as gone now......
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:47 am

MickS wrote:The Mets have about 7 or 8 slots open on their 40 man. I just don't see a match though.


They're looking to move Castillo.....we could use him, though they'd have to pick up some of his salary (or through in another nice piece). They are said to be looking for a catcher too. Shoppach would be a good fit for them (though not straight up for Castillo).

Don't see anything happening between the two, but there are some fits.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby jellis » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:21 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
MickS wrote:The Mets have about 7 or 8 slots open on their 40 man. I just don't see a match though.


They're looking to move Castillo.....we could use him, though they'd have to pick up some of his salary (or through in another nice piece). They are said to be looking for a catcher too. Shoppach would be a good fit for them (though not straight up for Castillo).

Don't see anything happening between the two, but there are some fits.



did you ever watch castillo last year hes a 2B delluci, I live in NYC and saw a lot of games Castillo is terrible. Mets would give him away if they could
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby jellis » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:39 pm

extra on castillo who is will be starting year 2 of a 4 year 24 mil deal


But there is another reason the Mets have not prioritized removing Castillo, and that is because, The Post has learned, Castillo requested an offseason meeting in which he implored Mets officials not to trade him and also pledged to re-dedicate himself to offseason training to assure he is in top condition next season.


In the October meeting with GM Omar Minaya and top lieutenant Tony Bernazard, Castillo accepted responsibility for his out-of-shape, poor 2008 and stated a desire to make amends -- in New York. Mets officials were pleased that Castillo did not want to flee from the problems. Instead, he stated a desire to play and win as a Met, and change the fans' booing opinion of him, as well.

"He wanted to let the front office know that he was disappointed in how the year went, and promise to do everything he could to get in shape and be the kind of player he had been for 10 years," Minaya said.

Minaya and Bernazard stressed in the meeting that Castillo must project a more positive demeanor, and that he cannot allow himself to show up in as poor shape this spring training as he did following knee surgery last year.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby TheWord » Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:49 am

Hermie13 wrote:
MickS wrote:The Mets have about 7 or 8 slots open on their 40 man. I just don't see a match though.


They're looking to move Castillo.....we could use him, though they'd have to pick up some of his salary (or through in another nice piece). They are said to be looking for a catcher too. Shoppach would be a good fit for them (though not straight up for Castillo).

Don't see anything happening between the two, but there are some fits.




Put him up there on the priority chart next to Tony Graffanino and Edwin Encarnacion.....wayyy down at the bottom.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:49 am

jellis wrote:did you ever watch castillo last year hes a 2B delluci, I live in NYC and saw a lot of games Castillo is terrible. Mets would give him away if they could


Yup, I did watch him. Watched him put up a .355 OBP and play a decent 2B. He would be a perfect fit in the 2-hole next year behind Grady. Only cost $6M next year without the Mets picking up any salary (cheaper than Atkins and Roberts...and half of what Beltre would cost).

Obviously not an ideal guy, but if you could get them to throw in a guy like John Maine I'd make the deal. Shoppach, Laffey, and a mid-level prospect for those two would fill 2 holes and not cost a ton of money. Maine is slated to be their #4 starter (assuming they add a free agent). They could do without him.....again, HIGHLY unlikely....
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:24 am

Hermie13 wrote:
jellis wrote:did you ever watch castillo last year hes a 2B delluci, I live in NYC and saw a lot of games Castillo is terrible. Mets would give him away if they could


Yup, I did watch him. Watched him put up a .355 OBP and play a decent 2B. He would be a perfect fit in the 2-hole next year behind Grady. Only cost $6M next year without the Mets picking up any salary (cheaper than Atkins and Roberts...and half of what Beltre would cost).

Obviously not an ideal guy, but if you could get them to throw in a guy like John Maine I'd make the deal. Shoppach, Laffey, and a mid-level prospect for those two would fill 2 holes and not cost a ton of money. Maine is slated to be their #4 starter (assuming they add a free agent). They could do without him.....again, HIGHLY unlikely....


You say the darnest things about the defensive prowess of 2B. You seem to make this stuff up about players like Cantu, uggla and Castillo. Like Jellis says, Castillo is crap defensively, Maybe not as bad as Uggla or Cantu, but sad nonetheless. I really admire your enthusiasm but your credibilty is taking some serious hits.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:28 pm

Luis Castillo won a Gold Glove just 3 years ago and has won 3 in his career at 2B (2003- 2005).......so no, I'm not 'making this stuff up'. He's not a gold glover anymore, but still a very good defensive 2B (did put up a bad plus-minus this year though, I'll give you that).
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:13 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Luis Castillo won a Gold Glove just 3 years ago and has won 3 in his career at 2B (2003- 2005).......so no, I'm not 'making this stuff up'. He's not a gold glover anymore, but still a very good defensive 2B (did put up a bad plus-minus this year though, I'll give you that).


Hermie my lad, that is four years since we are talking 2009. That is a lifetime in MLB. He has the range of a stone. I can tell that you don't really see these guys play. You know way too much not to see this. He has lost it. If you actually watch him play and you still believe this, then your evaluation skills need serious work. I don't like to be mean but don't try to BS any of us, much less me. This is like the opposing positions you took on Cabrera when it was pointed out that he actually hit better after the move to 1B. I do not want to jump on you but you have to think before you write. Throwing stuff against the wall to see if it sticks is a waste of space. It is a free country and this is a free blog for opinions. But there is a big difference between that and people respecting your opinions. Oh, don't try to patronize me with gratuitous comments like those in your parenthetical. It is quite likely I was scouting baseball players before you were even born.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby jellis » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:09 pm

yeah Castillo is done hes an old 2B his swing had slowed and whose feet just dont move like they used to, we have moved out of the steriods and drug era and I think we are going to see guys slowing down in there 30's like they used to.Players staying top of there game late into there 30's was a mirage and Castillo good days are far far behind him. I would never touch a guy whose in decline with 3 years left on a deal.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:50 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:Hermie my lad, that is four years since we are talking 2009. That is a lifetime in MLB. He has the range of a stone. I can tell that you don't really see these guys play. You know way too much not to see this. He has lost it. If you actually watch him play and you still believe this, then your evaluation skills need serious work. I don't like to be mean but don't try to BS any of us, much less me. This is like the opposing positions you took on Cabrera when it was pointed out that he actually hit better after the move to 1B. I do not want to jump on you but you have to think before you write. Throwing stuff against the wall to see if it sticks is a waste of space. It is a free country and this is a free blog for opinions. But there is a big difference between that and people respecting your opinions. Oh, don't try to patronize me with gratuitous comments like those in your parenthetical. It is quite likely I was scouting baseball players before you were even born.


First off, I'm not your lad (and are we suddenly in Ireland or something?).

Secondly, it's still 2008, the 2005 GG awards were barely announced 3 years ago...so yeah, it's 3 years. Never said Castillo was great defensively, but better than most options. Doesn't move as well as he has, but blames himself on poor conditioning (supposively getting into better shape). From 2004-2006 his +/- was above 10 on the positive side. It's been declining steadily since then, but still an average to above average defensive 2B.

And yes, Castillo was hobbled by bad knees this year...one of the main culprits for his poor defense. I am bankign on his knees healing (which obviously may not happen), but if they do, his defense will improve again. Not back to what it once was, but above average nevertheless.

Not just me saying this either, NY people feel the same.


He had the highest walk rate of ANY 2B last year. So who cares if his average dropped. He also was 17 for 19 on stolen base attempts. Pretty good for a guy in his 30s who apparently is too hobbled to run.

Again, is he an ideal candidate? No, but he's cheaper than most (his whole 3 remaining years is only $6M more than what Beltre will cost for 1 single year) and is probably pretty gettable....

And I stand by my Miggy Cabrera arguement. The position switch may have helped, but not nearly as much as the improved Detroit lineup around him (and addition of Granderson who was on the DL while he was at 3B) and getting more familar with the league.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby jellis » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:08 pm

In 2006 with the Twins, Castillo finished with a 91 OPS+.

In 2007 with the Twins and the Mets, it was 93.

that is not very good at all, I don't know any NY person who thinks Castillo will rebound not a single mets fan I know in this city thinks it. I am less than 30 from Shea and trust me Castillo is a player every met fan wishes was gone. The worst part is he still has 3 more years left on contract why would you ever take that on that's more total money then Beltre.

On top of that 3 years ago he was good 3 years ago is a life time, 3 years ago Hafner was a top 5 hitter in the AL. Cliff lee was an ok pitcher and fausto carmona was a CL

yes he walked 50 times in 84 games but his bat speed has slowed down so much he could buy a hit he hit 245 in the NL

I will tell you right now every met fan would give up castillo for fear if they could, he is a terrible non option
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:39 am

You're right....I guess Brandon Phillips absolutely sucks too since his OPS+ is under 100.

Some guys just have no power like Castillo. But he finds ways to get on base and that's all you need from a top of the order guy, especially a #2 hitter. Walks more than he strikeouts as well, which the Tribe could use.


And not every Mets fan thinks he'll rebound huh? Here's what Met fans think:

http://www.metsgeek.com/articles/2008/1 ... on-part-i/


Notice Castillo's fielding splits from before and after his injury. Went from the worst defensive 2B to the best once healthy.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:10 am

Hermie13 wrote:You're right....I guess Brandon Phillips absolutely sucks too since his OPS+ is under 100.


He doesn't suck, but he's grossly over-rated by Indians fans who use him as an excuse to attack the front office.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:34 am

i agree he's overrated. But he's still a solid 2B (not a superstar though).
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby TheWord » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:25 pm

Well, looking at this argument...I no longer want Castillo.

The argument for Castillo is awful.

"Well, he won a gold glove 4 years ago..."

Ouch.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:36 pm

no, the arguement is he still put up a .355 OBP in a bad year. Had the best Zone Rating of any 2B in the league after he came back from his injury too.....and should be quite easy to get. I'd rather pay Castillo $6M over 3 years than Hudson $10+M over the next 4-5 years.....

Not to mention you could either get the Mets to throw something else in or pay some of his salary.


I never, repeat never, said I wanted Castillo. Just that he would be a fit for this club and we have some of what the Mets want. There is a good fit there if we wanted to trade.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Duane Kuiper » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:52 pm

Hermie13 wrote:From 2004-2006 his +/- was above 10 on the positive side. It's been declining steadily since then, but still an average to above average defensive 2B.

Who cares what it was years ago. He was -3 for 07 and -14 for 08. He was ranked 33rd at 2B in 08.

One of the worst in the ML. He is clearly not average to above average.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:10 pm

yeah, no one can improve once they're healthy.....
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby TheWord » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:17 pm

No, you're right, age only improves their numbers.

So does moving to the AL.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:02 pm

Castillo was in the AL a season ago and still put up OBPs over .350.

Say what you want about his defense, but there was a dramitic improvment once he got his knees healthy. Still stole more bases than anyone on this team in the last few years (other than Grady). Would be an improvement over what we currently have.

Obviously he's not a top choice, but with guys like Furcal, Hudson, Uggla, and Roberts seeming out of reach (though I wouldn't give up on the latter two), it makes sense to look at other options.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby TheWord » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:43 pm

If it weren't 3 years, yes, it would be an option.

But with injuries, decline, and money...it is not a good option.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:37 pm

Never even said it was a good option.....but a better one than some alternatives.

And yeah, it is 3 years....but only $18M. Atkins will cost around $16-17M for 2 years. Uggla will cost over around $22M for the next 3 years. Roberts is $8M for only 1 year. Beltre is $12M for only 1 year. Hudson is wanting $50M over 5 years (even if he goes with $42M over 4 years still a lot).

Obviously Uggla is better offensively than Castillo, so you're getting your money's worth and then some. Atkins has never played in the AL (though I don't think that will affect him much) and will be leaving a great hitters park....worth a bit more than Castillo.....but not really that much, especially given the players it would likely take to get him.

Plus you could likely get NY to throw in money if you wanted to get him (or maybe they take Dellucci from us), thus lightening the load. If they took Dellucci from us, we'd basically be paying an extra $14M over the next 3 years for Castillo (subtracting Looch's $4M). That's barely more than what Hudson will want for 1 year and barely more than what Beltre will make, again in only 1 year. And this money would be spread over 3 years, thus not having much of a burden on the team.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby TheWord » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:24 pm

Of course, if they were to take on Dellucci, I would take a bag of horse manure.

Problem is, why do they want Dellucci?

Answer: They don't.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby jellis » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:35 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Never even said it was a good option.....but a better one than some alternatives.

And yeah, it is 3 years....but only $18M. Atkins will cost around $16-17M for 2 years. Uggla will cost over around $22M for the next 3 years. Roberts is $8M for only 1 year. Beltre is $12M for only 1 year. Hudson is wanting $50M over 5 years (even if he goes with $42M over 4 years still a lot).

Obviously Uggla is better offensively than Castillo, so you're getting your money's worth and then some. Atkins has never played in the AL (though I don't think that will affect him much) and will be leaving a great hitters park....worth a bit more than Castillo.....but not really that much, especially given the players it would likely take to get him.

Plus you could likely get NY to throw in money if you wanted to get him (or maybe they take Dellucci from us), thus lightening the load. If they took Dellucci from us, we'd basically be paying an extra $14M over the next 3 years for Castillo (subtracting Looch's $4M). That's barely more than what Hudson will want for 1 year and barely more than what Beltre will make, again in only 1 year. And this money would be spread over 3 years, thus not having much of a burden on the team.



yeah but the way this team works it would mean he would be stuck on this team till the contract is up and he would horrid a spot and be a crappy player he had a negative VORP
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby carnegie44115 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:47 am

Just listened to this week's show with Brown, and thought really afterwards that it was really stupid for the Indians not to protect him. Like it was said an AL team can put him at 1B, DH, or even LF. I see him getting drafted by the Mariners as they don't have a lot of 1B/DH types, in fact they only have one 1B who is a guy with little experience on their depth chart. Also I think the Mariners will want to get something at least for us practically stealing ACab and Choo.


The Indians want to talk about depth at 1B and DH, I see Pronk with a bum shoulder, though reports are saying things have been looking better for him recently, so I am all for hoping that Pronk is able to return for a full productive season next year.

Then there is Garko, who I hope does have a bounce back year, and my thought is on him, is this was simply his sophomore slump year, many players have had it and have gone on to have productive years afterward, although I find it hard to say someone was in a slump year when he drove in 90 runs, but I think its more about consistency than his overall numbers this year.

And Finally my rant ends with the one and only Michael Aubrey, who was the recipient of a 4th option year, why I do not know. This is going to be the main reason, why Brown was not rostered, not he is a 1B and not many are drafted, and not because he had a down year at AAA. I know its been a tough road for Aubrey, and I couldn't have been more happier when I was at GABP and see him hit his 1st ML HR in Cinci this past year.

I just think it makes more sense to go with Brown who is younger, and not as worn down by past injuries like Aubrey. This is now the end of my rant, sorry but I just had to say it. :s_dance
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:36 am

carnegie44115 wrote:Just listened to this week's show with Brown, and thought really afterwards that it was really stupid for the Indians not to protect him. Like it was said an AL team can put him at 1B, DH, or even LF. I see him getting drafted by the Mariners as they don't have a lot of 1B/DH types, in fact they only have one 1B who is a guy with little experience on their depth chart. Also I think the Mariners will want to get something at least for us practically stealing ACab and Choo.


The Indians want to talk about depth at 1B and DH, I see Pronk with a bum shoulder, though reports are saying things have been looking better for him recently, so I am all for hoping that Pronk is able to return for a full productive season next year.

Then there is Garko, who I hope does have a bounce back year, and my thought is on him, is this was simply his sophomore slump year, many players have had it and have gone on to have productive years afterward, although I find it hard to say someone was in a slump year when he drove in 90 runs, but I think its more about consistency than his overall numbers this year.

And Finally my rant ends with the one and only Michael Aubrey, who was the recipient of a 4th option year, why I do not know. This is going to be the main reason, why Brown was not rostered, not he is a 1B and not many are drafted, and not because he had a down year at AAA. I know its been a tough road for Aubrey, and I couldn't have been more happier when I was at GABP and see him hit his 1st ML HR in Cinci this past year.

I just think it makes more sense to go with Brown who is younger, and not as worn down by past injuries like Aubrey. This is now the end of my rant, sorry but I just had to say it. :s_dance


I think it makes a whole lot more sense to go with LaPorta, Weglarz and Mills. Brown's time had come and gone IMO. Aubrey, for all his flaws, looked better than Brown last year and he was already rostered. Let's face facts. Gimenez is much more versatile as a player. :s_biggrin
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:03 am

jellis wrote:yeah but the way this team works it would mean he would be stuck on this team till the contract is up and he would horrid a spot and be a crappy player he had a negative VORP


He had a negative VORP due to injury and playing in less than 90 games last year. He had an OBP of .365 heading into the All-Star break. Was hurt for much of the second half and never got his stroke back. Did get his defense back though. With more playing time and a full spring under his belt, he should be back up around his usual numbers.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:15 am

As far as Brown.....I too am pretty disappointed he wasn't rostered. The foot injury must be of concern to Cleveland, and they must feel he can't play any LF anymore. Being only a 1B/DH would then really hurt Brown. The power is definately lacking....but it's also lacking in Aubrey and even Garko.


I'm not as big a Gimenez fan as a lot of people. Yeah, he's versatile....but we have other catching options and he barely plays 3B anymore. 1B and OF are the other positions he can play.....but like we really need more of those....

Hopefully it works out in the end for the Tribe.....but we'll see....
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby carnegie44115 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:59 am

indianinkslinger wrote:
carnegie44115 wrote:Just listened to this week's show with Brown, and thought really afterwards that it was really stupid for the Indians not to protect him. Like it was said an AL team can put him at 1B, DH, or even LF. I see him getting drafted by the Mariners as they don't have a lot of 1B/DH types, in fact they only have one 1B who is a guy with little experience on their depth chart. Also I think the Mariners will want to get something at least for us practically stealing ACab and Choo.


The Indians want to talk about depth at 1B and DH, I see Pronk with a bum shoulder, though reports are saying things have been looking better for him recently, so I am all for hoping that Pronk is able to return for a full productive season next year.

Then there is Garko, who I hope does have a bounce back year, and my thought is on him, is this was simply his sophomore slump year, many players have had it and have gone on to have productive years afterward, although I find it hard to say someone was in a slump year when he drove in 90 runs, but I think its more about consistency than his overall numbers this year.

And Finally my rant ends with the one and only Michael Aubrey, who was the recipient of a 4th option year, why I do not know. This is going to be the main reason, why Brown was not rostered, not he is a 1B and not many are drafted, and not because he had a down year at AAA. I know its been a tough road for Aubrey, and I couldn't have been more happier when I was at GABP and see him hit his 1st ML HR in Cinci this past year.

I just think it makes more sense to go with Brown who is younger, and not as worn down by past injuries like Aubrey. This is now the end of my rant, sorry but I just had to say it. :s_dance


I think it makes a whole lot more sense to go with LaPorta, Weglarz and Mills. Brown's time had come and gone IMO. Aubrey, for all his flaws, looked better than Brown last year and he was already rostered. Let's face facts. Gimenez is much more versatile as a player. :s_biggrin


No doubt does it make sense with the guys you mentioned, but only one of them is really ready to help the Indians in the near future (May 2009), but none of them had to be rostered, and the 40-man is about who can immediately help your team, not who is your best prospects, I just don't see Aubrey being one of them, plus it would not hurt to have a guy like Brown that doesn't strike out every 1 in 3 at bats. Also Aubrey was not for once recovering from an injury at the outset of the season, that slowed down Brown and he also encountered an injury during the season, and still in my mind put up better numbers than Aubrey did at Buffalo. I have no problem with the Indians rostering Gimenez, I was fine with that move, though the Indians need to have him play more than catcher, to actually be versatile. We will see how they handle him if him and Toregas are both in Columbus next year.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby carnegie44115 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:03 pm

Hermie13 wrote:As far as Brown.....I too am pretty disappointed he wasn't rostered. The foot injury must be of concern to Cleveland, and they must feel he can't play any LF anymore. Being only a 1B/DH would then really hurt Brown. The power is definately lacking....but it's also lacking in Aubrey and even Garko.


I'm not as big a Gimenez fan as a lot of people. Yeah, he's versatile....but we have other catching options and he barely plays 3B anymore. 1B and OF are the other positions he can play.....but like we really need more of those....

Hopefully it works out in the end for the Tribe.....but we'll see....



I think the Indians are over cautious with their players :s_omg and they feel Brown could aggravate his knee problem in LF. According to Brown though he feels fine, and with the Indians they also have Stephen Head to play LF and RF, so the Indians dont really need him to play in the OF. As for the foot injury, doesn't really seem to be much of a problem, it was an ATV accident, is it broken, I don't know, he didn't mention it exactly but if it was something major, I think would of heard more about this, especially if the Indian Knucklehead Brass wanted to scare off other teams from drafting him.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:15 pm

I'm not a fan of Stephen Head either. He's ok, but nothing special and likely will never see any regular time at the ML level. He too could possibly be taken in the Rule 5 draft.....but doubtful he'd stick with a club, even a really bad one.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby carnegie44115 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:28 pm

Hermie13 wrote:I'm not a fan of Stephen Head either. He's ok, but nothing special and likely will never see any regular time at the ML level. He too could possibly be taken in the Rule 5 draft.....but doubtful he'd stick with a club, even a really bad one.



Yeah that could be quite possible for both the ML and the Rule 5, he is better suited for a NL team with def replacement and pinch hitter more widely used.

Like I said earlier, Brown would fit perfectly for Seattle, I hope he doesn't, but for him it would be great.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:40 pm

ha, thought I said earlier he'd be a great fit for Seattle ;)
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Duane Kuiper » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:57 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:I think it makes a whole lot more sense to go with LaPorta, Weglarz and Mills. Brown's time had come and gone IMO. Aubrey, for all his flaws, looked better than Brown last year and he was already rostered. Let's face facts. Gimenez is much more versatile as a player. :s_biggrin

You don't let a top propect like Brown go at the time he has the lowest value for $50,000. That is just stupid asset management.

He had one bad year because of injury. Before that he was league MVP twice.

Man, this sounds like the people that wanted to dump Lee after 2007.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby carnegie44115 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:36 pm

Hermie13 wrote:ha, thought I said earlier he'd be a great fit for Seattle ;)



Did ya? Well then maybe Im not crazy then :s_crazy
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:47 pm

So should you let a 'top' prospect like Brown go when he has high value for $50,000??


I get what you're trying to say, but Brown really isn't a 'top' prospect. He is a good player, and I do wish we'd have rostered him as I think he can make a very solid contribution to this club.....but someone had to be left off....I'd have chose Giminez, but the Tribe FO obviously felt differently.


Orioles are another team that could take a chance on him if they don't sign Teixeira.....
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby carnegie44115 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:56 pm

More than likely I think in Baltimore, I see Ramon Hernandez becoming the 1B, unless he is traded. He was playing there some towards the end of the year, and I see Wieters breaking camp with the Orioles. Plus they are at 40 already, yes I know they can drop some people before the draft, but yea if they were to do something different then my theory of Hernandez at first, they could take a chance on Brown, it is great park for a bat to ball and doubles hitter.

For choosing Gimenez to be left off, I see why you would say that, but the tribe FO loves the guy who goes up there and works the count and is patient, which I think is screwing them over because they have guys who can't lay off of that 3-2 pitch in the dirt. I would have picked Mujica to toss aside, they are going to anyways, from a quote I saw the other day from Shapiro.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:09 pm

I could see Brown at DH there too though. Huff will play some 3B for them again to give Mora days off. frees up the DH spot then. They could let him play a bit of LF if they want too and let Scott DH. They'd have options, especially if they trade Huff while his value is as high as it is....
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby carnegie44115 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:14 pm

Yeah from my understanding and this is just talking with a friend of mine who is an Orioles fan, Huff is a liability at third, and strictly needs to be a 1B/DH. Also I forgot to mention an interesting thing about the Orioles 40-man, they have 28 pitchers on it currently, obviously they will be doing some pre-winter meetings cleaning, but that just stood out to me.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:16 pm

He's not good at 3B by any means, but he played there at the end of last year when Mora was hurt. Not gonna start 100+ games there for them (though he could...he's a lot like Branyan on defense).
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby carnegie44115 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:23 pm

Hermie13 wrote:He's not good at 3B by any means, but he played there at the end of last year when Mora was hurt. Not gonna start 100+ games there for them (though he could...he's a lot like Branyan on defense).



Now theres the way to characterize people who are poor defensive 3B, just say he is pulling a Russell Branyan. :s_thumbsup

I didnt realize this, but his middle name is Oles.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:29 pm

Duane Kuiper wrote:You don't let a top propect like Brown go at the time he has the lowest value for $50,000. That is just stupid asset management.

He had one bad year because of injury. Before that he was league MVP twice.

Man, this sounds like the people that wanted to dump Lee after 2007.


100% agreed. Brown should be on this roster in place of Aubrey.

Aubrey is who he is, and nothing is going to change with him. He's a bit player now with bad legs and will always be about at 75% what he used to be. He has one final option year, while Brown would have three, so there is some roster flexibility there. Also, Brown is a superior "hitter", both have about the same pop, and Aubrey is maybe just a smidge better defensively.
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Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby carnegie44115 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:31 pm

Is it not possible Brown develops even more pop in his bat, I mean you always hear that the HR power is the last thing to develop, and he talked about losing some of that power to fit more into the hitting philosophy of the Indians.
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