Indians Prospect Insider - Covering the Cleveland Indians from the Minors to the Big Leagues

Jordan Brown to be rostered

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:51 pm

Consigliere wrote:
Duane Kuiper wrote:You don't let a top propect like Brown go at the time he has the lowest value for $50,000. That is just stupid asset management.

He had one bad year because of injury. Before that he was league MVP twice.

Man, this sounds like the people that wanted to dump Lee after 2007.


100% agreed. Brown should be on this roster in place of Aubrey.

Aubrey is who he is, and nothing is going to change with him. He's a bit player now with bad legs and will always be about at 75% what he used to be. He has one final option year, while Brown would have three, so there is some roster flexibility there. Also, Brown is a superior "hitter", both have about the same pop, and Aubrey is maybe just a smidge better defensively.


I agree that Brown is more of a prospect than Aubrey, but the Indians surely have to take the view of do you DFA Aubrey and 100% lose him for good OR do you just not protect Brown and potentially lose him and even then potentially get him back?

I said at the time, I thought Aubreys 4th option year was the death knell for Brown (in terms of making the 40-man), the Indians it would seem are just trying to play the percentages.

The tried it last year (Barton/Snyder) and it backfired, there's more of a chance of them getting it 'right' this time around though based on the position Brown plays.
dazindiansfanuk
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1854
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:51 pm

Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby carnegie44115 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:00 pm

Really yeah in the history of the Rule 5 draft, not many 1B have gotten drafted, but this year has to be somewhat different with some teams looking for a first baseman. Seattle, Baltimore(Hermie13), Marlins(Maybe if they don't move Cantu to 3B or is traded), Pirates(If LaRoche was to be dealt), A's(Though they have been linked to looking into Nick Johnson), so there is 5 teams that in my opinion don't have a firm lock on first base.
carnegie44115
Rookie Baller
 
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:12 pm

Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:43 pm

Marlins will likely go with Gaby Sanchez, their youngster, at 1B if they don't move Cantu over there, so doubt they'd grab one. Tampa Bay could possibly be looking for a DH in the draft (man, how scary would their team have been this year if they hadn't lost Hamilton in the draft 2 years ago....yikes!). They don't have many hitters like Brown that could DH. They've got a ton of pitching in their system though. Not a likely fit, but better than the Marlins IMO.


Other than the added option years, don't really see a whole lot that Brown brings more than Aubrey. He's a bit healthier, but seems that Brown has been slowed by them too. Their minor league lines are pretty similar too.

In 340 games (1294 at-bats), Aubrey has hit .295/.362/.479/.841 with 48 HRs.

In 380 games (1451 at-bats), Brown has hit .300/.372/.456/.828 with 36 HRs.

Aubrey is 2 years older....so that's working against him I suppose....
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7098
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby jellis » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:07 pm

carnegie44115 wrote:Just listened to this week's show with Brown, and thought really afterwards that it was really stupid for the Indians not to protect him. Like it was said an AL team can put him at 1B, DH, or even LF. I see him getting drafted by the Mariners as they don't have a lot of 1B/DH types, in fact they only have one 1B who is a guy with little experience on their depth chart. Also I think the Mariners will want to get something at least for us practically stealing ACab and Choo.


The Indians want to talk about depth at 1B and DH, I see Pronk with a bum shoulder, though reports are saying things have been looking better for him recently, so I am all for hoping that Pronk is able to return for a full productive season next year.

Then there is Garko, who I hope does have a bounce back year, and my thought is on him, is this was simply his sophomore slump year, many players have had it and have gone on to have productive years afterward, although I find it hard to say someone was in a slump year when he drove in 90 runs, but I think its more about consistency than his overall numbers this year.

And Finally my rant ends with the one and only Michael Aubrey, who was the recipient of a 4th option year, why I do not know. This is going to be the main reason, why Brown was not rostered, not he is a 1B and not many are drafted, and not because he had a down year at AAA. I know its been a tough road for Aubrey, and I couldn't have been more happier when I was at GABP and see him hit his 1st ML HR in Cinci this past year.

I just think it makes more sense to go with Brown who is younger, and not as worn down by past injuries like Aubrey. This is now the end of my rant, sorry but I just had to say it. :s_dance



AMEN, Aubrey over Brown makes zero sense
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby jellis » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:08 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
jellis wrote:yeah but the way this team works it would mean he would be stuck on this team till the contract is up and he would horrid a spot and be a crappy player he had a negative VORP


He had a negative VORP due to injury and playing in less than 90 games last year. He had an OBP of .365 heading into the All-Star break. Was hurt for much of the second half and never got his stroke back. Did get his defense back though. With more playing time and a full spring under his belt, he should be back up around his usual numbers.



he had a negative Batting Wins the last 3 years and when was the last time a 33 who will turn 34 year old 2B rebound and play well

Robbie alomar last good year at 33
Joe Morgan last good year at 33, ok one decent year at 38 nothing between
Ryne Sandberg last good year at 32
craig Biggio last good year 33,then moved to OF and played better

these are all time greats, I don't see how anyone can possibly see anything good in castillo. He hasnt been good in 3 years and hes old and has shown no signs of being in shape
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:04 am

A .355 OBP is good. I'm not saying he's an 'All-Time great' or even a star player, but who are the Indians gonna get for their IF spot? Tribe needs to look at every opportunity out there, and even if you hate Castillo, he'd be an improvement on the IF. He's already in better shape since coming back from injury (as seen by his HUGE improvement on defense).
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7098
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby jellis » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:21 pm

Hermie13 wrote:A .355 OBP is good. I'm not saying he's an 'All-Time great' or even a star player, but who are the Indians gonna get for their IF spot? Tribe needs to look at every opportunity out there, and even if you hate Castillo, he'd be an improvement on the IF. He's already in better shape since coming back from injury (as seen by his HUGE improvement on defense).



he is still old and coming off bad/ mediocre years and signed for 3 more years. If hes not done now he will be done in another year or two by year 3 he would be stuck holding a spot on the 40 man and the Indians wont cut him. the crux of you argument was he was good 3 years ago or last year in limited time, I saw him play in person he looked done. This would be Ricky Gutierrez part duo
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:38 pm

He was good in 2007, not just 3 years ago. So no, the crux of my arguement is not that he was good 3 years ago.


Just curious, who do you want/think the Indians should/will get for the infield spot?
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7098
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby jellis » Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:34 pm

At this point I think you have to look at Felipe Lopez, joe Crede, ty Wigginton, naybe a theriot or Fontenot for CHI

I feel like we could help the cubs get Peavy and in exchange get one of there MI

Maybe a khalil Greene but at best hes a better defending Peralta

I like both cubs guys Theriot adds speed and over a full year I think fonenot can hit near 40 doubles

Cubs need SP to send to SD in the deal along with vitters and if they are inquiring earlier about theriot or Fontenont in deals for Tehean I think Laffey plus another smaller piece you could net you one of them
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:32 am

I don't see Felipe Lopez being any better than Castillo....and I'm not a fan of Crede because of his back injuries.

Wigginton would work for me (though will cost the same amount of money as Castillo). I've been pondering the idea of Fontenot and Theriot as well.....though I'm not sold on Fontenot being any better than Barfield in full-time duty really. He did play well in the utility role last year.....but then again, so did Carroll. For Laffey and a smaller piece though it'd be a risk worth taking.....
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7098
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby jellis » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:44 am

I decided to check Carroll vs Fontenot

in 100 less AB Fontenot 9 more doubles, 8 more HRs, and on OBP 40 points higher, they had the same number of walks, though on the negative side fontenot had only 15 less strike outs the extra power made his SLG 160 points higher, though he had only 2 steals to carrolls 7

I would be willing to take the risk since he should be cheaper, I mean the rumor is him plus pitcher Marshall for Teahan. I would think the Indians woul have to consider him, and with him begining his 3rd year next year he would be cheap for awhile.

Side note, I thought the Barfield deal was a great deal at the time, and still am baffled by what happened to him after such a productive year in a pitcher friendly park in SD. I got a sinking feeling its all confidence with him at this point, and that he might rebound if he want to a new team with low expectations.
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:53 am

I'm just a bit concerned about how Fontenot will transition from part-time player to full-time starter. Had an amazing .395 OBP.....but in 119 games only had 243 at-bats. Could work out. He'll turn 29 in June though; he's no spring chicken. Late bloomer perhaps. In 2007 though, he played in 86 games with 234 at-bats and only had a .336 OBP and .402 SLG.


Another question to ask....if they are pondering Marshall and Fontenot for Teahan, would you consider Choo for those 2?
Last edited by Hermie13 on Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7098
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Duane Kuiper » Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:23 pm

Sean Marshall and Mike Fontenot are not available. At least not right now.

Team sources insist the left-handed pitcher and lefty-hitting second baseman are too valuable to the Cubs in their current roles and that Fontenot "could get some time at shortstop."

"Marshall would be tough to give up," a source said, "because he is a lefty in the bullpen and also gives us protection [in the rotation] for [injury-prone] Harden."

Rumored talks with Kansas City involving Marshall for outfielder Mark Teahen are indeed just rumors at this point.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ch ... 2790.story
Duane Kuiper
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:51 am

Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby jellis » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:27 pm

I wouldnt trade for choo, just cause it creates a new hole in my mind. Heres my view on the cubs they are going to have to move some one they have cedeno,theriot, Derosa, and fontenot. One of them needs to be moved, De Rosa played to well and Cedeno value is nothing so I expect them to move one of the other two
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Jordan Brown to be rostered

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:58 pm

eh, not so sure about it creating another hole. Gut played well in the second half (hit .285 and had a .816 OPS after the All-Star break) and could start in RF with Francisco in LF. Definately not as good as when Choo is in there, but we'll have to make some sacrifices this winter I have a feeling. Plus Choo's value is much higher than Francisco's or Gut's......
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7098
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Previous

Return to Indians Prospect Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest