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2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby gotribe31 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:09 am

indianinkslinger wrote:Sounds like a reasonable plan, Tony. My big question on position sharing is what happens to Ackley? We like our Kipnis and Phelps but let's be realistic. He will be superior to both. :pleasantry:


Why are you so sure that Ackley is destined to be superior to Kipnis? Reviews of their defense have them about equal (so-so now, athletic enough to be ML average when its all said and done). Hitting has been a wash. Both produced at a high level in college. Kip has hit for more power than Ackley. Ignore where they were drafted, and you have two guys pretty much at the same prospect level right now as far as I am concerned. Kip took a big leap forward this year, and Ackley took a small step back from what was originally projected for him.

Also, Ackley is expected to play some 1B and possibly a little OF in Arizona this year.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby tribefan611 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:49 pm

gotribe31 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Sounds like a reasonable plan, Tony. My big question on position sharing is what happens to Ackley? We like our Kipnis and Phelps but let's be realistic. He will be superior to both. :pleasantry:


Why are you so sure that Ackley is destined to be superior to Kipnis? Reviews of their defense have them about equal (so-so now, athletic enough to be ML average when its all said and done). Hitting has been a wash. Both produced at a high level in college. Kip has hit for more power than Ackley. Ignore where they were drafted, and you have two guys pretty much at the same prospect level right now as far as I am concerned. Kip took a big leap forward this year, and Ackley took a small step back from what was originally projected for him.

Also, Ackley is expected to play some 1B and possibly a little OF in Arizona this year.


Don't know if that was right or wrong, but it just made my day!
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:03 pm

gotribe31 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Sounds like a reasonable plan, Tony. My big question on position sharing is what happens to Ackley? We like our Kipnis and Phelps but let's be realistic. He will be superior to both. :pleasantry:


Why are you so sure that Ackley is destined to be superior to Kipnis? Reviews of their defense have them about equal (so-so now, athletic enough to be ML average when its all said and done). Hitting has been a wash. Both produced at a high level in college. Kip has hit for more power than Ackley. Ignore where they were drafted, and you have two guys pretty much at the same prospect level right now as far as I am concerned. Kip took a big leap forward this year, and Ackley took a small step back from what was originally projected for him.

Also, Ackley is expected to play some 1B and possibly a little OF in Arizona this year.

Hi 31, I was not speaking of now which is meaningless to me. Projection for the future is what is important and I think Ackley has a superior future to both, especially since he is a year younger. I am not dissing Phelps or Kipnis and either or both could turn out to be superior to Ackley. Just not on projectible talent at this time IMO. :pleasantry:
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby gotribe31 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:40 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Sounds like a reasonable plan, Tony. My big question on position sharing is what happens to Ackley? We like our Kipnis and Phelps but let's be realistic. He will be superior to both. :pleasantry:


Why are you so sure that Ackley is destined to be superior to Kipnis? Reviews of their defense have them about equal (so-so now, athletic enough to be ML average when its all said and done). Hitting has been a wash. Both produced at a high level in college. Kip has hit for more power than Ackley. Ignore where they were drafted, and you have two guys pretty much at the same prospect level right now as far as I am concerned. Kip took a big leap forward this year, and Ackley took a small step back from what was originally projected for him.

Also, Ackley is expected to play some 1B and possibly a little OF in Arizona this year.

Hi 31, I was not speaking of now which is meaningless to me. Projection for the future is what is important and I think Ackley has a superior future to both, especially since he is a year younger. I am not dissing Phelps or Kipnis and either or both could turn out to be superior to Ackley. Just not on projectible talent at this time IMO. :pleasantry:


Totally agree, I'm talking about the future as well. I don't see anything in Ackley/Kip's past or recent performance that would clearly indicate to me that Ackley is that much ahead. Their college numbers were very similar, with Ackley hitting a few more HR but Kip has more HR with a wood bat in the pro's. Both slugged over .700 their final year in college. But with wood, Kip's SLG is almost 100 points higer than Ackley's. His OPS is more than 100 points higher.

I will again acknowledge that Ackley put up his #'s at AA/AAA while Kip was at A/AA, but I would call that a wash considering the superior #'s. I think their college careers were remarkably similar. They are built almost identical with Ackley an inch taller but Kip looks more muscular. Their pro #'s as I said look more or less like a wash. Ignoring draft position and 10 or so months of age, what have you see that convinces you that Ackley will be superior?
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:50 pm

gotribe31 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Sounds like a reasonable plan, Tony. My big question on position sharing is what happens to Ackley? We like our Kipnis and Phelps but let's be realistic. He will be superior to both. :pleasantry:


Why are you so sure that Ackley is destined to be superior to Kipnis? Reviews of their defense have them about equal (so-so now, athletic enough to be ML average when its all said and done). Hitting has been a wash. Both produced at a high level in college. Kip has hit for more power than Ackley. Ignore where they were drafted, and you have two guys pretty much at the same prospect level right now as far as I am concerned. Kip took a big leap forward this year, and Ackley took a small step back from what was originally projected for him.

Also, Ackley is expected to play some 1B and possibly a little OF in Arizona this year.

Hi 31, I was not speaking of now which is meaningless to me. Projection for the future is what is important and I think Ackley has a superior future to both, especially since he is a year younger. I am not dissing Phelps or Kipnis and either or both could turn out to be superior to Ackley. Just not on projectible talent at this time IMO. :pleasantry:


Totally agree, I'm talking about the future as well. I don't see anything in Ackley/Kip's past or recent performance that would clearly indicate to me that Ackley is that much ahead. Their college numbers were very similar, with Ackley hitting a few more HR but Kip has more HR with a wood bat in the pro's. Both slugged over .700 their final year in college. But with wood, Kip's SLG is almost 100 points higer than Ackley's. His OPS is more than 100 points higher.

I will again acknowledge that Ackley put up his #'s at AA/AAA while Kip was at A/AA, but I would call that a wash considering the superior #'s. I think their college careers were remarkably similar. They are built almost identical with Ackley an inch taller but Kip looks more muscular. Their pro #'s as I said look more or less like a wash. Ignoring draft position and 10 or so months of age, what have you see that convinces you that Ackley will be superior?

Bat speed and strike zone awareness, plate discipline, power potential, athletic ability. I could go on and on but you aren't about to change your mind regardless of how many things i point out. Nothing you have said makes me belive you would see the distiction but you are entitled to your opinion. I just think you are wrong but I don't think even you will argue plate discipline and strike zone. Ackley is a year more advanced and a year younger. :pleasantry:
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:18 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:Hi 31, I was not speaking of now which is meaningless to me. Projection for the future is what is important and I think Ackley has a superior future to both, especially since he is a year younger. I am not dissing Phelps or Kipnis and either or both could turn out to be superior to Ackley. Just not on projectible talent at this time IMO. :pleasantry:


In fariness to 31, even BP has posed the idea that Kipnis is a better prospect than Ackley. Now it was moreso just to lead into how good Kipnis has been, but it's a very, very reasonable arguement.


I am a bit leary of Kipnis's (and Phelps's) numbers this year....both have insanely high BABIPs. Kipnis has been at nearly .390 for each of the past 2 months. He may be one of those great hitters who can keep a higher than average BABIP....but not .390ish. Even his overall year number is pretty unmaintainable.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:14 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Hi 31, I was not speaking of now which is meaningless to me. Projection for the future is what is important and I think Ackley has a superior future to both, especially since he is a year younger. I am not dissing Phelps or Kipnis and either or both could turn out to be superior to Ackley. Just not on projectible talent at this time IMO. :pleasantry:


In fariness to 31, even BP has posed the idea that Kipnis is a better prospect than Ackley. Now it was moreso just to lead into how good Kipnis has been, but it's a very, very reasonable arguement.


I am a bit leary of Kipnis's (and Phelps's) numbers this year....both have insanely high BABIPs. Kipnis has been at nearly .390 for each of the past 2 months. He may be one of those great hitters who can keep a higher than average BABIP....but not .390ish. Even his overall year number is pretty unmaintainable.

Hermie, we have been posting on this same blog for a couple of years. In all that time, have you ever seen me give a healthy crap about what BP or any of the other BS writers have to say on the subject of any prospect? Come to think of it, have you ever seen me use numbers as a substitute for seeing the player actually perform? Why do you bother? :reallyshocked:
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:06 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:Hermie, we have been posting on this same blog for a couple of years. In all that time, have you ever seen me give a healthy crap about what BP or any of the other BS writers have to say on the subject of any prospect? Come to think of it, have you ever seen me use numbers as a substitute for seeing the player actually perform? Why do you bother? :reallyshocked:


In all these years, have I ever given a crap about what you "see" in a player? :rolleyes:

And good grief. I was simply given creedance to 31's arguement. Pull your head out of your ass please.

The numbers I was showing were simply an observation (and a VERY relevant one, whether you're too dumb to realize it). Just because you claim to "see" these guys, doesn't make you right.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:13 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Hermie, we have been posting on this same blog for a couple of years. In all that time, have you ever seen me give a healthy crap about what BP or any of the other BS writers have to say on the subject of any prospect? Come to think of it, have you ever seen me use numbers as a substitute for seeing the player actually perform? Why do you bother? :reallyshocked:


In all these years, have I ever given a crap about what you "see" in a player? :rolleyes:

And good grief. I was simply given creedance to 31's arguement. Pull your head out of your ass please.

The numbers I was showing were simply an observation (and a VERY relevant one, whether you're too dumb to realize it). Just because you claim to "see" these guys, doesn't make you right.

Then why respond, trailer trash?
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:15 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:Then why respond, trailer trash?


sad....
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby JP_Frost » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:20 pm

Come on guys, this is below our level. No need to start name-calling. Otherwise you can fight it out through PM or email.

As for Kipnis and his babip -- it's definately something to keep an eye on. However, I'm willing to wait and draw my conclusions next year to see if it normalizes or not.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:41 pm

Can we keep the personal stuff out of this please guys?

Remember, these are opinions being shared not absolute facts. It is very arguable who is a better prospect between Ackley and Kipnis....but let's keep it civil and not make it personal. :drinks:
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby gotribe31 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:23 am

Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Then why respond, trailer trash?


sad....


Yeah, I was going to respond to 'slinger, but I see there really isn't much of a point now.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:19 pm

gotribe31 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Then why respond, trailer trash?


sad....


Yeah, I was going to respond to 'slinger, but I see there really isn't much of a point now.

Feel free. I enjoyed your thoughts but happen to disagree. As long as you do not use personal attacks in your remarks, I never initiate that stuff. Merely my reaction to others starting in that mode. If you want to make a point without my response, then do so. I do not take it personally as long as it is civil. I have no illusions about being perfect but my observations come from my own view of the players, not some "expert" or stats. :pleasantry:
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:02 pm

C Roberto Perez and RHP Travis Turek added to AFL roster.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:22 pm

TonyIPI wrote:C Roberto Perez and RHP Travis Turek added to AFL roster.

Perez makes sense with Chen on national team but I expected Turek to be let go. It looks to me like they don't want to risk any arm of value. :drinks:
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby gotribe31 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:53 pm

Rough openening day for the Indians prospects so far. Barnes started, gave up 5 ER in 2 2/3 (albeit with 6 K's). Lee has given up 2 ER in 2 IP with 2 K. Ackley started at 2B over Kipnis, Tenbrink started at 3B over Phelps. Clemens DH'ing over both of them. Come on Sarbaugh...get our guys in there! Ackley does have a HR in the game, but still...
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:09 pm

Kipnis starting at 3B today....... 0-for-4 with 2Ks so far.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby Upper Box Woodchuck » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:37 pm

Rough way to get the AFL campaign underway. Would hope to see some better numbers as the fall rolls on.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:33 am

FYI, Phelps is still playing in the Pan-AM Games, so with his absence the AFL team is doing some shuffling to fill the 3B void. I was told Kipnis only was playing 3B on Wednesday to get at bats. There is not position switch in the works, and it is not a planned experiment likethe one they are doing with Phelps at 3B.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:37 am

Kipnis is writing a blog for MLB on his experience in the AFL:

http://jasonkipnis.mlblogs.com/
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby gotribe31 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:14 am

Kip 0-5 yesterday. Berger 1 IP, 2 H, BB, but 2 K and 0 R. Price 2 IP, 2 H, BB, and an unearned run.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:04 pm

gotribe31 wrote:Kip 0-5 yesterday. Berger 1 IP, 2 H, BB, but 2 K and 0 R. Price 2 IP, 2 H, BB, and an unearned run.


Kip hit two balls right at people....but in talking to him after the game he took the collar well. Two straight collars actually. Will have a piece up on him soon. Have lots of materical from the AFL and Instructs to put up player features for the next month.

Will be posting an AFL notebook on Monday/Tuesday with comments from Sarbaugh and some players as well as other news and notes.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:29 pm

Looks like Kipnis took the collar VERY well....... 2-for-5, 3B, HR, 5RBI today!
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:48 pm

RBI double to the wall in CF for Kipnis in his first AB today.

I think he might be getting comfortable at the plate!!
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:02 pm

Kipnis lifted in the 5th inning after just 2ABs..... hope he's not hurt!
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:33 pm

Adam Abraham 2-for-4 with a 2B in his AFL debut.

Travis Turek with a scoreless inning & CC Lee pitched a scoreless 9th inning with 2Ks as the Javelinas fell 6-4 to the Scottsdale Scorpions.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby moonballz » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:49 pm

Barnes 4 inn. 0 runs 1 hit 5 K's nice job Scott
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby danh8 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:50 pm

moonballz wrote:Barnes 4 inn. 0 runs 1 hit 5 K's nice job Scott


Barnes is a kid that if he can gain some consistency, could improve by a large margin. He can swing from extremes
from start to start. But, when he's on he looks lke a guy that has a nice career ahead of him.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:45 pm

danh8 wrote:
moonballz wrote:Barnes 4 inn. 0 runs 1 hit 5 K's nice job Scott


Barnes is a kid that if he can gain some consistency, could improve by a large margin. He can swing from extremes
from start to start. But, when he's on he looks lke a guy that has a nice career ahead of him.


I agree here. Still feel like his ceiling is higher than Huff's. Looks like a nice #5 now, but his K-rate suggests he could be so much more. Was just 2 years ago too he was the #3 SP prospect in the Giants organization (#9 overall). While rankings may not mean much, not like he's coming out of nowhere. I hope he opens in Columbus next year, or at the worst is up by the end of May.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby jellis » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:59 pm

gotribe31 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Sounds like a reasonable plan, Tony. My big question on position sharing is what happens to Ackley? We like our Kipnis and Phelps but let's be realistic. He will be superior to both. :pleasantry:


Why are you so sure that Ackley is destined to be superior to Kipnis? Reviews of their defense have them about equal (so-so now, athletic enough to be ML average when its all said and done). Hitting has been a wash. Both produced at a high level in college. Kip has hit for more power than Ackley. Ignore where they were drafted, and you have two guys pretty much at the same prospect level right now as far as I am concerned. Kip took a big leap forward this year, and Ackley took a small step back from what was originally projected for him.

Also, Ackley is expected to play some 1B and possibly a little OF in Arizona this year.

Hi 31, I was not speaking of now which is meaningless to me. Projection for the future is what is important and I think Ackley has a superior future to both, especially since he is a year younger. I am not dissing Phelps or Kipnis and either or both could turn out to be superior to Ackley. Just not on projectible talent at this time IMO. :pleasantry:


Totally agree, I'm talking about the future as well. I don't see anything in Ackley/Kip's past or recent performance that would clearly indicate to me that Ackley is that much ahead. Their college numbers were very similar, with Ackley hitting a few more HR but Kip has more HR with a wood bat in the pro's. Both slugged over .700 their final year in college. But with wood, Kip's SLG is almost 100 points higer than Ackley's. His OPS is more than 100 points higher.

I will again acknowledge that Ackley put up his #'s at AA/AAA while Kip was at A/AA, but I would call that a wash considering the superior #'s. I think their college careers were remarkably similar. They are built almost identical with Ackley an inch taller but Kip looks more muscular. Their pro #'s as I said look more or less like a wash. Ignoring draft position and 10 or so months of age, what have you see that convinces you that Ackley will be superior?



not sure if you say, but churchill fired back when I posed this question 0% chance that kipnis is better than ackley. I love Kipnis, but the big difference in levels is hard to over come. I hope your right,but I am not sure what to expect with Kipnis when every other than Goldstein says he will be an above average 2B. Goldstein is the same guy who 2 years ago still had Crowe in his top ten, which wrecked a lot of his views for me.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:21 am

What Kipnis or Ackley becomes, who knows. But no doubt, Ackley is still the better prospect between the two. That doesn't mean that Kipnis can never be the better player, it's just that Ackley is viewed as the better prospect with better tools all around across the board. We'll see how it plays out down the road.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby gotribe31 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:09 pm

jellis wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Sounds like a reasonable plan, Tony. My big question on position sharing is what happens to Ackley? We like our Kipnis and Phelps but let's be realistic. He will be superior to both. :pleasantry:


Why are you so sure that Ackley is destined to be superior to Kipnis? Reviews of their defense have them about equal (so-so now, athletic enough to be ML average when its all said and done). Hitting has been a wash. Both produced at a high level in college. Kip has hit for more power than Ackley. Ignore where they were drafted, and you have two guys pretty much at the same prospect level right now as far as I am concerned. Kip took a big leap forward this year, and Ackley took a small step back from what was originally projected for him.

Also, Ackley is expected to play some 1B and possibly a little OF in Arizona this year.

Hi 31, I was not speaking of now which is meaningless to me. Projection for the future is what is important and I think Ackley has a superior future to both, especially since he is a year younger. I am not dissing Phelps or Kipnis and either or both could turn out to be superior to Ackley. Just not on projectible talent at this time IMO. :pleasantry:


Totally agree, I'm talking about the future as well. I don't see anything in Ackley/Kip's past or recent performance that would clearly indicate to me that Ackley is that much ahead. Their college numbers were very similar, with Ackley hitting a few more HR but Kip has more HR with a wood bat in the pro's. Both slugged over .700 their final year in college. But with wood, Kip's SLG is almost 100 points higer than Ackley's. His OPS is more than 100 points higher.

I will again acknowledge that Ackley put up his #'s at AA/AAA while Kip was at A/AA, but I would call that a wash considering the superior #'s. I think their college careers were remarkably similar. They are built almost identical with Ackley an inch taller but Kip looks more muscular. Their pro #'s as I said look more or less like a wash. Ignoring draft position and 10 or so months of age, what have you see that convinces you that Ackley will be superior?



not sure if you say, but churchill fired back when I posed this question 0% chance that kipnis is better than ackley. I love Kipnis, but the big difference in levels is hard to over come. I hope your right,but I am not sure what to expect with Kipnis when every other than Goldstein says he will be an above average 2B. Goldstein is the same guy who 2 years ago still had Crowe in his top ten, which wrecked a lot of his views for me.


I hope I'm right too, and I'd love to get odds from Churchill if he's saying "ZERO percent." Always/never are pretty cut and dry words of estimative probablility.

I'm not saying there's a 100% chance of Kip being better than Ackley long term, or even 50-50. All I'm saying is that after a year+ worth of on the field performance, the gap isn't that great considering the difference in where they were picked, and I can see them being comperable players when all is said and done. For someone to come out at this stage and say that there is a 100% chance that Ackley has a better career is crazy.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby jellis » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:26 pm

gotribe31 wrote:
jellis wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Sounds like a reasonable plan, Tony. My big question on position sharing is what happens to Ackley? We like our Kipnis and Phelps but let's be realistic. He will be superior to both. :pleasantry:


Why are you so sure that Ackley is destined to be superior to Kipnis? Reviews of their defense have them about equal (so-so now, athletic enough to be ML average when its all said and done). Hitting has been a wash. Both produced at a high level in college. Kip has hit for more power than Ackley. Ignore where they were drafted, and you have two guys pretty much at the same prospect level right now as far as I am concerned. Kip took a big leap forward this year, and Ackley took a small step back from what was originally projected for him.

Also, Ackley is expected to play some 1B and possibly a little OF in Arizona this year.

Hi 31, I was not speaking of now which is meaningless to me. Projection for the future is what is important and I think Ackley has a superior future to both, especially since he is a year younger. I am not dissing Phelps or Kipnis and either or both could turn out to be superior to Ackley. Just not on projectible talent at this time IMO. :pleasantry:


Totally agree, I'm talking about the future as well. I don't see anything in Ackley/Kip's past or recent performance that would clearly indicate to me that Ackley is that much ahead. Their college numbers were very similar, with Ackley hitting a few more HR but Kip has more HR with a wood bat in the pro's. Both slugged over .700 their final year in college. But with wood, Kip's SLG is almost 100 points higer than Ackley's. His OPS is more than 100 points higher.

I will again acknowledge that Ackley put up his #'s at AA/AAA while Kip was at A/AA, but I would call that a wash considering the superior #'s. I think their college careers were remarkably similar. They are built almost identical with Ackley an inch taller but Kip looks more muscular. Their pro #'s as I said look more or less like a wash. Ignoring draft position and 10 or so months of age, what have you see that convinces you that Ackley will be superior?



not sure if you say, but churchill fired back when I posed this question 0% chance that kipnis is better than ackley. I love Kipnis, but the big difference in levels is hard to over come. I hope your right,but I am not sure what to expect with Kipnis when every other than Goldstein says he will be an above average 2B. Goldstein is the same guy who 2 years ago still had Crowe in his top ten, which wrecked a lot of his views for me.


I hope I'm right too, and I'd love to get odds from Churchill if he's saying "ZERO percent." Always/never are pretty cut and dry words of estimative probablility.

I'm not saying there's a 100% chance of Kip being better than Ackley long term, or even 50-50. All I'm saying is that after a year+ worth of on the field performance, the gap isn't that great considering the difference in where they were picked, and I can see them being comperable players when all is said and done. For someone to come out at this stage and say that there is a 100% chance that Ackley has a better career is crazy.


If you check the ackley article he says 0% chance in the comments
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby gotribe31 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:48 am

FYI, Jason Kipnis the only Indian selected to the "Future Stars" game this Saturday. Phelps and Barnes having solid seasons so far in AZ, with Barnes leading the league in K's...was hoping the two of them would make it as well.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby GhostofTedCox » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:40 am

The AFL Rising Stars Game will be telecast on MLB Network on Saturday night at 9pm.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:52 am

gotribe31 wrote:FYI, Jason Kipnis the only Indian selected to the "Future Stars" game this Saturday. Phelps and Barnes having solid seasons so far in AZ, with Barnes leading the league in K's...was hoping the two of them would make it as well.


His selection all but shows it is based on rep and not performance, that's for sure. He's having a terrible time out in the AFL.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:30 pm

TonyIPI wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:FYI, Jason Kipnis the only Indian selected to the "Future Stars" game this Saturday. Phelps and Barnes having solid seasons so far in AZ, with Barnes leading the league in K's...was hoping the two of them would make it as well.


His selection all but shows it is based on rep and not performance, that's for sure. He's having a terrible time out in the AFL.


For what it's worth, Kipnis is leading the team in HR and RBIs this fall. Batting average and OBP are pretty pathetic though.


Phelps is having a good offensive time out in AZ.....defensively......well you can tell he hasn't played much 3B.


And Barnes.....gonna say it again, he deserves/belongs in the Columbus rotation to start the year. First outing was pretty shaky but 19 Ks and only 3 walks.....we need a lefty like that in Cleveland.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:41 pm

Hermie13 wrote:And Barnes.....gonna say it again, he deserves/belongs in the Columbus rotation to start the year. First outing was pretty shaky but 19 Ks and only 3 walks.....we need a lefty like that in Cleveland.


Will be interesting to see where he starts, and it is really going to be dictated by who opens in Cleveland and how many arms open in Columbus. If Gomez, Tomlin, Huff, Espino, Pino, McAllister, Kluber, White and heck even Aaron Laffey are considered for the Columbus rotation, it's going to be hard for any Akron starter to move up to Columbus to start the season.

Could see both White and Barnes open in Akron because of the logjam, but as things loosen up with injury/performance, both get to Columbus in early May possibly.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:57 pm

TonyIPI wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:And Barnes.....gonna say it again, he deserves/belongs in the Columbus rotation to start the year. First outing was pretty shaky but 19 Ks and only 3 walks.....we need a lefty like that in Cleveland.


Will be interesting to see where he starts, and it is really going to be dictated by who opens in Cleveland and how many arms open in Columbus. If Gomez, Tomlin, Huff, Espino, Pino, McAllister, Kluber, White and heck even Aaron Laffey are considered for the Columbus rotation, it's going to be hard for any Akron starter to move up to Columbus to start the season.

Could see both White and Barnes open in Akron because of the logjam, but as things loosen up with injury/performance, both get to Columbus in early May possibly.


I agree, it'll be tough....though personally think Barnes belongs in Columbus before White. Don't think you need to push White that hard early. Barnes had a full year at Akron. Agree though that White seems like the more likely candidate.

Gonna be interesting for sure to see where eveyreone starts out. Personally feel this is the perfect winter to shop some of these guys and attempt to trade for a ML starter.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:19 pm

...but 19 Ks and only 3 walks.....we need a lefty like that in Cleveland...
We need three of them... call me :crazy: but, this is the year that the kids who have a chance to truly excel, need to be given a chance to show what they can do..
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby moonballz » Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:29 pm

Barnes,Berger,Price, Perez and Kipnis all playing well for Javealinas today
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:01 pm

I think it's safe to say Kipnis has officially found his stroke.

3-for-3 with 2 2Bs today to raise his average to .265 and OPS to .918

14 of his 18 hits for extra bases too.

EDIT: Kipnis adds another double to make him 4-for-4
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:31 pm

First base coach must have bad breath...
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:57 am

martyinnewyork wrote:First base coach must have bad breath...


BWAHAHAHA! :rofl:
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:36 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:I think it's safe to say Kipnis has officially found his stroke.

3-for-3 with 2 2Bs today to raise his average to .265 and OPS to .918

14 of his 18 hits for extra bases too.

EDIT: Kipnis adds another double to make him 4-for-4


Insane how many of his hits are going for extra bases. can he really keep this up? His BABIP still worries me.

I know people will say it's nuts, but I put feelers out to see what Kipnis can get you in a trade this winter. The overabundance of lefties in the lineup really worries me going forward (we seriously could have zero righties in 2012).
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:05 pm

... I put feelers ...
what?.. you got them to feel the curb when you park your car?.. :pleasantry:

Hmm.. yes.. a LOT of lefties.. way too many lefties..
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby Edible14 » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:03 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
... I put feelers ...
what?.. you got them to feel the curb when you park your car?.. :pleasantry:

Hmm.. yes.. a LOT of lefties.. way too many lefties..


It's true that it's a concern, but I think that handedness is a concern you look to solve in free-agency or via the trade market. That being said, I wouldn't want to make a trade on that concern until you're midseason into a contending season. Reason being is that prospects fail occasionally for whatever reason, and occasionally perform above expectation. Maybe Brantley fails to improve. Maybe Kipnis or Chiz struggle to adjust to AAA. Maybe Sizemore or Hafner get hurt. Maybe Donald or Nix prove they can be legit MLB starters, or more likely... Phelps does. And least likely of all these scenarios, maybe a guy like Goedert, Hodges, McBride or (least likely of all) Mills gets a chance and becomes a good MLB starter. Strange things happen.

I'm not worried about having an all-lefty lineup (minus Santana, ACab and LaPorta) until 1) We're contending and 2) It actually happens. Too many things can happen between now and then.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:09 pm

Edible14 wrote:It's true that it's a concern, but I think that handedness is a concern you look to solve in free-agency or via the trade market. That being said, I wouldn't want to make a trade on that concern until you're midseason into a contending season. Reason being is that prospects fail occasionally for whatever reason, and occasionally perform above expectation. Maybe Brantley fails to improve. Maybe Kipnis or Chiz struggle to adjust to AAA. Maybe Sizemore or Hafner get hurt. Maybe Donald or Nix prove they can be legit MLB starters, or more likely... Phelps does. And least likely of all these scenarios, maybe a guy like Goedert, Hodges, McBride or (least likely of all) Mills gets a chance and becomes a good MLB starter. Strange things happen.

I'm not worried about having an all-lefty lineup (minus Santana, ACab and LaPorta) until 1) We're contending and 2) It actually happens. Too many things can happen between now and then.


Agreed Edible. What side of the plate these guys hit on doesn't worry be one iota. Just find me some ballplayers.

Working out the lineup and getting some RHers in there we can worry about later via free agency or trade.

It would be nice though if someone in house did something from the right-side, which is why it is important that LaPorta springs to life next year.
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Re: 2010 Arizona Fall League Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:19 pm

TonyIPI wrote:
Edible14 wrote:It's true that it's a concern, but I think that handedness is a concern you look to solve in free-agency or via the trade market. That being said, I wouldn't want to make a trade on that concern until you're midseason into a contending season. Reason being is that prospects fail occasionally for whatever reason, and occasionally perform above expectation. Maybe Brantley fails to improve. Maybe Kipnis or Chiz struggle to adjust to AAA. Maybe Sizemore or Hafner get hurt. Maybe Donald or Nix prove they can be legit MLB starters, or more likely... Phelps does. And least likely of all these scenarios, maybe a guy like Goedert, Hodges, McBride or (least likely of all) Mills gets a chance and becomes a good MLB starter. Strange things happen.

I'm not worried about having an all-lefty lineup (minus Santana, ACab and LaPorta) until 1) We're contending and 2) It actually happens. Too many things can happen between now and then.


Agreed Edible. What side of the plate these guys hit on doesn't worry be one iota. Just find me some ballplayers.

Working out the lineup and getting some RHers in there we can worry about later via free agency or trade.

It would be nice though if someone in house did something from the right-side, which is why it is important that LaPorta springs to life next year.

When looking at the near ML ready prospects, both Kipnis and Weglarz hit LHP pretty well so far but the same cannot be said for Chisenhall. I agree with you guys that it is more important to get the rebuild in place with the higher ceiling players by midseason. Work out the kinks about LH/RH splits after we have the core in place. :pleasantry:
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